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Zoedyn
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AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:59 pm

Per a new proposal being circulated by Austin-Bergstrom International Airport, AUS is eyeing financial incentives to entice airlines to launch nonstop flights from Austin to Hawaii and 7 intercontinental destinations, ie, Amsterdam, Beijing, Dublin, Paris, Seoul, Shanghai, and Tokyo.

Bryce Dubee, a spokesman for AUS, says those routes are among the ones requested most often by business and leisure travelers, but no timetable has been set for adding them.


Interesting wish list! 4 East Asian destinations there.

Any real chance for any of them to happen any time soon? Or a pipe dream only? :shhh:

http://austin.culturemap.com/news/trave ... in-austin/
 
lavalampluva
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:05 pm

Zoedyn wrote:
Per a new proposal being circulated by Austin-Bergstrom International Airport, AUS is eyeing financial incentives to entice airlines to launch nonstop flights from Austin to Hawaii and 7 intercontinental destinations, ie, Amsterdam, Beijing, Dublin, Paris, Seoul, Shanghai, and Tokyo.

Bryce Dubee, a spokesman for AUS, says those routes are among the ones requested most often by business and leisure travelers, but no timetable has been set for adding them.


Interesting wish list! 4 East Asian destinations there.

Any real chance for any of them to happen any time soon? Or a pipe dream only? :shhh:

http://austin.culturemap.com/news/trave ... in-austin/


Maybe Amsterdam, Paris. Definitely not Shanghai and Beijing. But every airport has their wish list. :white:
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Prost
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:06 pm

I believe AUS would need an airline to hub there in order to make those destinations work.
 
airbuster
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:12 pm

I bet KLM would love to send their 332 to AUS within the JV. AMS is slot restricted though. Maybe a AF 332 in that case. 3x week...
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vin2basketball
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:25 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
Per a new proposal being circulated by Austin-Bergstrom International Airport, AUS is eyeing financial incentives to entice airlines to launch nonstop flights from Austin to Hawaii and 7 intercontinental destinations, ie, Amsterdam, Beijing, Dublin, Paris, Seoul, Shanghai, and Tokyo.

Bryce Dubee, a spokesman for AUS, says those routes are among the ones requested most often by business and leisure travelers, but no timetable has been set for adding them.


Interesting wish list! 4 East Asian destinations there.

Any real chance for any of them to happen any time soon? Or a pipe dream only? :shhh:

http://austin.culturemap.com/news/trave ... in-austin/


Maybe Amsterdam, Paris. Definitely not Shanghai and Beijing. But every airport has their wish list. :white:


So I would actually say one of Shanghai or Beijing is possible given the absolute explosion of subsidized Chinese long haul flying, but it would have to be after the political situation between US and China is settled in 2020 (regardless of which side wins in the US).

AMS is more likely than CDG (imo) because it seems to be the preferred airport for beyond connections.

TYO I think is tough because no one is going to waste a HND slot on AUS, and the split of HND and NRT operations means that the beyond connectivity at NRT is diminished arguably below the levels needed to support a nonstop to AUS.

ICN is possible given the DL/KE JV, but DL would need to build up more of their presence in AUS with some additional business flying to pull away corp contracts.

Alternatively, there's always EK to DXB which is not on the wish-list but would serve East Asia, South Asia, and MENA very well.
 
kimimm19
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:27 pm

Yeah I think Podonktown, USA is eyeing big international routes as well...
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:30 pm

And good luck with that.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
malev2012
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:37 pm

Given the amount of lift to Europe from AUS between Daily 747/777 to LHR on BA, 5x weekly on A333 to FRA on LH, and seasonal 4x weekly service to LGW on 788 on DI it seems that Austin is still a few years away from absorbing another TATL flight.
Airlines flown: AA, AB, AC, AY, BA, CO, DL, DY, EW, F9, G4, IB, KL, LH, LX, NK, NW, NZ, OS, QF, SN, TP, UA, US, VA, VC, WN, XE
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:41 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
Yeah I think Podonktown, USA is eyeing big international routes as well...


It's a pretty affluent market, and fast-growing. For all the talk of MCI and CMH getting TATL flights... AUS already demonstrates BA's success.

CDG, maybe. There should be O&D and plenty of beyond routes. AMS, less likely. Asia - I just don't see it. They've got DFW for that. But money talks.
Last edited by MIflyer12 on Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:41 pm

I could see DL/AF/KL attempting something to either AMS or CDG, but that's about it.
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FSDan
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:43 pm

Zoedyn wrote:
Per a new proposal being circulated by Austin-Bergstrom International Airport, AUS is eyeing financial incentives to entice airlines to launch nonstop flights from Austin to Hawaii and 7 intercontinental destinations, ie, Amsterdam, Beijing, Dublin, Paris, Seoul, Shanghai, and Tokyo.


AUS-Hawai'i definitely seems like a long shot... I'm not sure HA's 321s have the range for that route, and a 332 would seem like overkill, especially given the massive amount of capacity that's already available on DFW-Hawai'i via an easy connection. And I'm not sure who'd want to start this route besides HA.

Regarding the various international destinations:

I think either CDG or AMS (but probably not both) would be a reasonable add by DL. A 763 seems like the right aircraft.

DUB: If EI's 321XLRs can make that distance with a reasonable payload, perhaps it has a shot of happening. Otherwise, I doubt it.
TYO: Seems unlikely. NH has a bunch of HND slots to allocate, but given the proximity of AUS to IAH, I think AUS-TYO would have to be a huge (and/or very lucrative) local market to justify the service. I'd be surprised if JL started AUS-TYO, although stranger things have happened.
ICN: KE would be the logical choice (789). Probably 3-4x weekly.
PEK or PVG: Seems like the type of route HU would potentially launch (I'd guess PEK).
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2travel2know2
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:45 pm

Aiming very high those Texans.
And the regional international destinations when?
AUS neither interested in AV from SAL nor CM from PTY before they chose SAT?
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
SCQ83
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:49 pm

I think it is realistic if the global economy does not enter a major recession.

Just recall Boston had its first Asian carrier/destination (JAL to NRT) in 2012 and so far it has gained Seoul, Shanghai, Beijing, Hong Kong, Casablanca, Dubai, Doha, Istanbul and Tel Aviv, in addition to a few European destinations.
 
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:51 pm

Awww this is so cute! Daddy, can I fly to everywhere in the world non-stop? No, honey...you're not big enough yet.
 
vin2basketball
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:53 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
Yeah I think Podonktown, USA is eyeing big international routes as well...


AUS handled 16m passengers last year and is on pace for 17+ this year (basically growing at 8-9% per year), which is about on par with PDX, which has nonstop service to Asia, and bigger than SJC/ONT (though those are obviously part of larger metro areas) which do as well.

AUS also has nonstop service to LHR which BA routinely flies a 744 on, FRA on LH, and LGW on DY.

AUS by itself is a 2.1 million person metro area, but the catchment area for international flying includes SAT at 2.5 million people, so the combined catchment for int'l flying is at least 4.6 million people. The drive from AUS (the airport) to San Antonio is under 90 minutes, and for the wealthiest San Antonio suburbs (where most int'l demand is likely to originate) it can be under 75 minutes.

A 4 million catchment puts AUS above LAS, PDX, DEN, SAN, MSP, SEA, DTW, all of which have nonstop service to Asia, plus ahead of CLT, MCO, PHX which have multiple TATL flights.

And oh by the way GDP per capita is way higher in AUS even before you account for the fact that the much lower cost of living means more disposable income for families.

Yes AUS isn't NYC, the Bay Area, Miami, or Chicago, but it's not Oklahoma City, Buffalo, or Louisville for crying out loud.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:53 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
Yeah I think Podonktown, USA is eyeing big international routes as well...
Maybe you should inform BA that they are flying to Podonktown. Maybe they can redirect your nose to a more level oritentation too.
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:53 pm

I don't know why this is really big news. Every medium-market airport has its list of cities it would give subsidies to make happen.

This is AUS'. It's not indicative of any imminent plans for any of them (though I still think AUS will see AMS or CDG sooner rather than later), simply the markets the city has a desire for.
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BNAMealer
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:57 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
I think it is realistic if the global economy does not enter a major recession.

Just recall Boston had its first Asian carrier/destination (JAL to NRT) in 2012 and so far it has gained Seoul, Shanghai, Beijing, Hong Kong, Casablanca, Dubai, Doha, Istanbul and Tel Aviv, in addition to a few European destinations.


BOS and AUS is not an apples to apples comparison. BOS is a much larger, globalized market with two hub carriers.

I could see maybe CDG or AMS and maybe ICN. AUS is simply too close to DFW/IAH to get much more, and since they probably won’t be a hub ever, some of these destinations just aren’t feasible.
 
vin2basketball
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:58 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
Aiming very high those Texans.
And the regional international destinations when?
AUS neither interested in AV from SAL nor CM from PTY before they chose SAT?


AUS doesn't have a huge population of immigrants from Central/South America. There is reasonable demand to Mexico, but even that is much stronger in San Antonio - let's see AUS support more than 6x weekly E190 service to MEX before we dream of SAL or PTY
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:00 pm

Longhornmaniac wrote:
I don't know why this is really big news. Every medium-market airport has its list of cities it would give subsidies to make happen.

This is AUS'. It's not indicative of any imminent plans for any of them (though I still think AUS will see AMS or CDG sooner rather than later), simply the markets the city has a desire for.


The difference here is that AUS will probably drum up the money - not just wish and complain.
 
sw733
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:00 pm

I read BJS as BJL (Banjul, The Gambia) and really started scratching my head. That would be a fun route...
 
x1234
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:01 pm

The reason AUS has such just PDEW to East Asia is due to ONE company HQ'ed there, Dell, which in high tech naturally has business to East Asia. Texas is well served with every Asian destination served from DFW (PEK, PVG, HKG, NRT, ICN and soon HND) and IAH (TPE, PEK & NRT). Both DFW and IAH are within driving distance from AUS too.
 
SCQ83
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:02 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
BOS and AUS is not an apples to apples comparison. BOS is a much larger, globalized market with two hub carriers.

I could see maybe CDG or AMS and maybe ICN. AUS is simply too close to DFW/IAH to get much more, and since they probably won’t be a hub ever, some of these destinations just aren’t feasible.


Yes, but ten years ago in 2009, if you would have written in this forum that in 2019 Boston would have non-stop links to NRT, ICN, PEK, PVG, HKG, DXB, DOH, IST, TLV and CMN... everybody would have laughed.

IMO it is about the global economy and how it will develop in the near future. I.e. tensions between US and China will not help introducing new "thin" service (e.g. AUS-PVG). But there are few more new feasible markets between Asia and the US. So AUS certainly might look interesting. I wouldn't discount the "herd" mentality. If, let's say, Korean Air starts ICN-AUS, maybe a Japanese or Chinese carrier would also jump on AUS.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:10 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
Maybe Amsterdam, Paris. Definitely not Shanghai and Beijing. But every airport has their wish list. :white:


Perhaps you'd like to substantiate this assertion?

After all, it's not as if China is a rising economic power, has the second-largest GDP in the world (and vying for #1), has a financial capital in Shanghai, or is extremely plugged into technology industry supply chains and venture capital that are important to a tech hub like Austin.

(To be sure, that's not to say this route would rival JFK-LHR, but to say "definitely not," strikes me as hasty.)
 
jetmatt777
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:26 pm

vin2basketball wrote:
kimimm19 wrote:
Yeah I think Podonktown, USA is eyeing big international routes as well...


AUS handled 16m passengers last year and is on pace for 17+ this year (basically growing at 8-9% per year), which is about on par with PDX, which has nonstop service to Asia, and bigger than SJC/ONT (though those are obviously part of larger metro areas) which do as well.

AUS also has nonstop service to LHR which BA routinely flies a 744 on, FRA on LH, and LGW on DY.

AUS by itself is a 2.1 million person metro area, but the catchment area for international flying includes SAT at 2.5 million people, so the combined catchment for int'l flying is at least 4.6 million people. The drive from AUS (the airport) to San Antonio is under 90 minutes, and for the wealthiest San Antonio suburbs (where most int'l demand is likely to originate) it can be under 75 minutes.

A 4 million catchment puts AUS above LAS, PDX, DEN, SAN, MSP, SEA, DTW, all of which have nonstop service to Asia, plus ahead of CLT, MCO, PHX which have multiple TATL flights.

And oh by the way GDP per capita is way higher in AUS even before you account for the fact that the much lower cost of living means more disposable income for families.

Yes AUS isn't NYC, the Bay Area, Miami, or Chicago, but it's not Oklahoma City, Buffalo, or Louisville for crying out loud.


I understand what you’re saying but the comparison to DEN is a little odd. DEN is a tough comparison because of the mountainous terrain as well as the vast expanses of nothingness for 500 miles around Denver. There are no competing airports for hundreds of miles, so Denver’s catchment area is much larger. It includes many areas of Wyoming and even western Kansas and Northwestern Oklahoma. Many of those towns do have flights to denver for that reason, but if the flights did not exist they would still drive to denver. Many do drive anyway.
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ripcordd
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:28 pm

I can see ICN/HNL couple times a week and AMS summer happing within 2 years
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:33 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
BOS and AUS is not an apples to apples comparison. BOS is a much larger, globalized market with two hub carriers.

I could see maybe CDG or AMS and maybe ICN. AUS is simply too close to DFW/IAH to get much more, and since they probably won’t be a hub ever, some of these destinations just aren’t feasible.


Yes, but ten years ago in 2009, if you would have written in this forum that in 2019 Boston would have non-stop links to NRT, ICN, PEK, PVG, HKG, DXB, DOH, IST, TLV and CMN... everybody would have laughed.

IMO it is about the global economy and how it will develop in the near future. I.e. tensions between US and China will not help introducing new "thin" service (e.g. AUS-PVG). But there are few more new feasible markets between Asia and the US. So AUS certainly might look interesting. I wouldn't discount the "herd" mentality. If, let's say, Korean Air starts ICN-AUS, maybe a Japanese or Chinese carrier would also jump on AUS.


Nowhere near the same. BOS always had the O&D but just lacked the service. AUS doesnt have, nor has ever had, anywhere near the O&D to Asia that BOS has.

If AUS-Asia is to happen, I could only really see ICN. KE is the only one with the resources to really pull off a route that long and thin. AUS-China is a big HELL NO!!!
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
tkoenig95
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:38 pm

x1234 wrote:
The reason AUS has such just PDEW to East Asia is due to ONE company HQ'ed there, Dell, which in high tech naturally has business to East Asia. Texas is well served with every Asian destination served from DFW (PEK, PVG, HKG, NRT, ICN and soon HND) and IAH (TPE, PEK & NRT). Both DFW and IAH are within driving distance from AUS too.

Do your due diligence on tech in Central Texas and make a more appropriate post in regard to company HQ/field offices.
 
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spinotter
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:41 pm

vin2basketball wrote:
kimimm19 wrote:
Yeah I think Podonktown, USA is eyeing big international routes as well...


AUS handled 16m passengers last year and is on pace for 17+ this year (basically growing at 8-9% per year), which is about on par with PDX, which has nonstop service to Asia, and bigger than SJC/ONT (though those are obviously part of larger metro areas) which do as well.

AUS also has nonstop service to LHR which BA routinely flies a 744 on, FRA on LH, and LGW on DY.

AUS by itself is a 2.1 million person metro area, but the catchment area for international flying includes SAT at 2.5 million people, so the combined catchment for int'l flying is at least 4.6 million people. The drive from AUS (the airport) to San Antonio is under 90 minutes, and for the wealthiest San Antonio suburbs (where most int'l demand is likely to originate) it can be under 75 minutes.

A 4 million catchment puts AUS above LAS, PDX, DEN, SAN, MSP, SEA, DTW, all of which have nonstop service to Asia, plus ahead of CLT, MCO, PHX which have multiple TATL flights.

And oh by the way GDP per capita is way higher in AUS even before you account for the fact that the much lower cost of living means more disposable income for families.

Yes AUS isn't NYC, the Bay Area, Miami, or Chicago, but it's not Oklahoma City, Buffalo, or Louisville for crying out loud.


You are sounding defensive, and I do not see any reason for that. I could not believe it when BA announced AUS, but now nothing would surprise me. But I don't see UA or AA flying international from AUS, with DFW and IAH so close, but DL yes. DL announced LGW but I suspect there may still be more announcements for summer 2020. AUS-AMS?
 
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acavpics
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:45 pm

Prost wrote:
I believe AUS would need an airline to hub there in order to make those destinations work.


Isn't DL going to make AUS a focus city/mini hub?
 
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:48 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
BOS and AUS is not an apples to apples comparison. BOS is a much larger, globalized market with two hub carriers.

I could see maybe CDG or AMS and maybe ICN. AUS is simply too close to DFW/IAH to get much more, and since they probably won’t be a hub ever, some of these destinations just aren’t feasible.


Yes, but ten years ago in 2009, if you would have written in this forum that in 2019 Boston would have non-stop links to NRT, ICN, PEK, PVG, HKG, DXB, DOH, IST, TLV and CMN... everybody would have laughed.

IMO it is about the global economy and how it will develop in the near future. I.e. tensions between US and China will not help introducing new "thin" service (e.g. AUS-PVG). But there are few more new feasible markets between Asia and the US. So AUS certainly might look interesting. I wouldn't discount the "herd" mentality. If, let's say, Korean Air starts ICN-AUS, maybe a Japanese or Chinese carrier would also jump on AUS.


Nowhere near the same. BOS always had the O&D but just lacked the service. AUS doesnt have, nor has ever had, anywhere near the O&D to Asia that BOS has.

If AUS-Asia is to happen, I could only really see ICN. KE is the only one with the resources to really pull off a route that long and thin. AUS-China is a big HELL NO!!!


One of the oddities (I hesitate to say "problems") with AUS-Asia is that a lot of Austin's east Asia demand is to TPE. Of course, a flight to a hub in East Asia could likely tap some of that demand, but AUS-ICN-TPE isn't as far superior to AUS-LAX-TPE as AUS-ICN is to AUS-LAX-ICN.
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vin2basketball
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:49 pm

spinotter wrote:
vin2basketball wrote:
kimimm19 wrote:
Yeah I think Podonktown, USA is eyeing big international routes as well...


AUS handled 16m passengers last year and is on pace for 17+ this year (basically growing at 8-9% per year), which is about on par with PDX, which has nonstop service to Asia, and bigger than SJC/ONT (though those are obviously part of larger metro areas) which do as well.

AUS also has nonstop service to LHR which BA routinely flies a 744 on, FRA on LH, and LGW on DY.

AUS by itself is a 2.1 million person metro area, but the catchment area for international flying includes SAT at 2.5 million people, so the combined catchment for int'l flying is at least 4.6 million people. The drive from AUS (the airport) to San Antonio is under 90 minutes, and for the wealthiest San Antonio suburbs (where most int'l demand is likely to originate) it can be under 75 minutes.

A 4 million catchment puts AUS above LAS, PDX, DEN, SAN, MSP, SEA, DTW, all of which have nonstop service to Asia, plus ahead of CLT, MCO, PHX which have multiple TATL flights.

And oh by the way GDP per capita is way higher in AUS even before you account for the fact that the much lower cost of living means more disposable income for families.

Yes AUS isn't NYC, the Bay Area, Miami, or Chicago, but it's not Oklahoma City, Buffalo, or Louisville for crying out loud.


You are sounding defensive, and I do not see any reason for that. I could not believe it when BA announced AUS, but now nothing would surprise me. But I don't see UA or AA flying international from AUS, with DFW and IAH so close, but DL yes. DL announced LGW but I suspect there may still be more announcements for summer 2020. AUS-AMS?


I was responding to the poster that called Austin "Podonktown, USA." I agree that UA or AA would not do int'l from AUS beyond FRA/LHR which their JV partners have covered, but KL/DL/AF are fair game for sure.
 
vin2basketball
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:50 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
vin2basketball wrote:
kimimm19 wrote:
Yeah I think Podonktown, USA is eyeing big international routes as well...


AUS handled 16m passengers last year and is on pace for 17+ this year (basically growing at 8-9% per year), which is about on par with PDX, which has nonstop service to Asia, and bigger than SJC/ONT (though those are obviously part of larger metro areas) which do as well.

AUS also has nonstop service to LHR which BA routinely flies a 744 on, FRA on LH, and LGW on DY.

AUS by itself is a 2.1 million person metro area, but the catchment area for international flying includes SAT at 2.5 million people, so the combined catchment for int'l flying is at least 4.6 million people. The drive from AUS (the airport) to San Antonio is under 90 minutes, and for the wealthiest San Antonio suburbs (where most int'l demand is likely to originate) it can be under 75 minutes.

A 4 million catchment puts AUS above LAS, PDX, DEN, SAN, MSP, SEA, DTW, all of which have nonstop service to Asia, plus ahead of CLT, MCO, PHX which have multiple TATL flights.

And oh by the way GDP per capita is way higher in AUS even before you account for the fact that the much lower cost of living means more disposable income for families.

Yes AUS isn't NYC, the Bay Area, Miami, or Chicago, but it's not Oklahoma City, Buffalo, or Louisville for crying out loud.


I understand what you’re saying but the comparison to DEN is a little odd. DEN is a tough comparison because of the mountainous terrain as well as the vast expanses of nothingness for 500 miles around Denver. There are no competing airports for hundreds of miles, so Denver’s catchment area is much larger. It includes many areas of Wyoming and even western Kansas and Northwestern Oklahoma. Many of those towns do have flights to denver for that reason, but if the flights did not exist they would still drive to denver. Many do drive anyway.


How much of that excess catchment drives trans-Pacific or trans-Atlantic demand? That being said, your point is taken, I was just trying to make a point about the size of the metro and the opportunity in AUS
 
vin2basketball
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:51 pm

x1234 wrote:
The reason AUS has such just PDEW to East Asia is due to ONE company HQ'ed there, Dell, which in high tech naturally has business to East Asia. Texas is well served with every Asian destination served from DFW (PEK, PVG, HKG, NRT, ICN and soon HND) and IAH (TPE, PEK & NRT). Both DFW and IAH are within driving distance from AUS too.


Even if this were true (it's not), DFW and IAH are 4+ and 3+ hour drives from AUS with even moderate traffic, which is something that businesses wouldn't put corporate travelers through.
 
Longhornmaniac
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:53 pm

x1234 wrote:
The reason AUS has such just PDEW to East Asia is due to ONE company HQ'ed there, Dell, which in high tech naturally has business to East Asia. Texas is well served with every Asian destination served from DFW (PEK, PVG, HKG, NRT, ICN and soon HND) and IAH (TPE, PEK & NRT). Both DFW and IAH are within driving distance from AUS too.


This is just simply not true. Simplifying AUS' tech presence to a single company in Dell is woefully misinformed. Samsung's semiconductor plant has almost 10,000 employees, National Instruments over 7,000, Apple over 6,000, and Amazon just under 6,000. Austin is a well-diversified tech hub with a substantial presence from many companies that in unison contribute to the growth and demand for air travel in the city.

This is not me saying that AUS will see any Asian expansion any time soon, far from it. But the mentality of "Dallas and Houston are nearby" doesn't work in an era where airlines globally are straying from their trunk routes and finding success on longer, thinner point-to-point routes with aircraft like the 787, A350, and A330neo. Austin is a separate market from Dallas and Houston, and although it certainly benefits from the nearby fortress hubs, it has certainly grown into a market that needs its own service to major destinations.

Years ago, people used the same logic to justify BA's imminent failure on the the AUS-LHR route, saying it was too close to DFW and IAH. That quite obviously isn't true.

Austin is also a lot more than just tech traffic. It has grown into a tourist destination in its own right. Between our various music and film festivals which bring people in from all over the world, the Formula 1 and Moto GP races at COTA, great food and nightlife, and being the gateway to the Texas Hill Country, Austin has grown an incredible amount in the last 10 years as an internationally-recognized tourist destination. Anecdotally, I've encountered far more people abroad in the last 5 years who have either been to Austin or desire to go to Austin than I had people who merely knew of Austin in the preceding years.

Once again, I am not saying AUS will see much, or even any, of the aforementioned growth, in the short to medium term. But those acting like Austin is out of its mind for even pursuing them clearly know nothing about the market and its maturation in the last decade. The city itself is almost unrecognizable from just 10 years ago. As a native, that's not all good.
Cheers,
Cameron
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:53 pm

vin2basketball wrote:
x1234 wrote:
The reason AUS has such just PDEW to East Asia is due to ONE company HQ'ed there, Dell, which in high tech naturally has business to East Asia. Texas is well served with every Asian destination served from DFW (PEK, PVG, HKG, NRT, ICN and soon HND) and IAH (TPE, PEK & NRT). Both DFW and IAH are within driving distance from AUS too.


Even if this were true (it's not), DFW and IAH are 4+ and 3+ hour drives from AUS with even moderate traffic, which is something that businesses wouldn't put corporate travelers through.


AUS-DFW/IAH are flown many times per day. They dont have to drive.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
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acavpics
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:00 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
I could see maybe CDG or AMS and maybe ICN. AUS is simply too close to DFW/IAH to get much more, and since they probably won’t be a hub ever, some of these destinations just aren’t feasible.


Did you forget that Austin is one of the fastest growing metros in the entire country? Let alone Texas.
Roughly 50 people move into the city each day. With that kind of population growth, there's obviously gonna be more demand for international service.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:02 pm

acavpics wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
I could see maybe CDG or AMS and maybe ICN. AUS is simply too close to DFW/IAH to get much more, and since they probably won’t be a hub ever, some of these destinations just aren’t feasible.


Did you forget that Austin is one of the fastest growing metros in the entire country? Let alone Texas.
Roughly 50 people move into the city each day. With that kind of population growth, there's obviously gonna be more demand for international service.


Type of growth is important. Austin's growth is overwhelming domestic to the same degree Houston's is overwhelmingly international. DFW is somewhere in between.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:09 pm

I'd rather be too early to the party than too late. DL can afford to carry an underperforming route for a good long time. And Fort Hood is just up the street...
 
Busyboy2
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:13 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
Aiming very high those Texans.
And the regional international destinations when?
AUS neither interested in AV from SAL nor CM from PTY before they chose SAT?


People from Austin aren't Texans. I could say more but I'd probably get banned off this site.
 
vin2basketball
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:15 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
vin2basketball wrote:
x1234 wrote:
The reason AUS has such just PDEW to East Asia is due to ONE company HQ'ed there, Dell, which in high tech naturally has business to East Asia. Texas is well served with every Asian destination served from DFW (PEK, PVG, HKG, NRT, ICN and soon HND) and IAH (TPE, PEK & NRT). Both DFW and IAH are within driving distance from AUS too.


Even if this were true (it's not), DFW and IAH are 4+ and 3+ hour drives from AUS with even moderate traffic, which is something that businesses wouldn't put corporate travelers through.


AUS-DFW/IAH are flown many times per day. They dont have to drive.


By this logic, BOS-EWR/JFK/PHL are flown many times per day, so BOS doesn't need nonstop service to tons of TATL and TPAC destinations. Customers, particularly corporate ones, prefer nonstop flight.

AUS as an airport is on pace to hit 20 million O&D pax in the early 2020s with really strong corporate demand. Is it going to be a TPAC gateway with service to all of PEK, PVG, HKG, NRT, ICN, and HND? No probably not. But if I told you that in 2025, it would have a daily nonstop to ICN, 4-5x weekly to DXB and daily to AMS, would that be a crazy outcome for what at that point would be an airport with 22-23 million pax/year?
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:19 pm

vin2basketball wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
vin2basketball wrote:

Even if this were true (it's not), DFW and IAH are 4+ and 3+ hour drives from AUS with even moderate traffic, which is something that businesses wouldn't put corporate travelers through.


AUS-DFW/IAH are flown many times per day. They dont have to drive.


By this logic, BOS-EWR/JFK/PHL are flown many times per day, so BOS doesn't need nonstop service to tons of TATL and TPAC destinations. Customers, particularly corporate ones, prefer nonstop flight.

AUS as an airport is on pace to hit 20 million O&D pax in the early 2020s with really strong corporate demand. Is it going to be a TPAC gateway with service to all of PEK, PVG, HKG, NRT, ICN, and HND? No probably not. But if I told you that in 2025, it would have a daily nonstop to ICN, 4-5x weekly to DXB and daily to AMS, would that be a crazy outcome for what at that point would be an airport with 22-23 million pax/year?


Stop the false equivalence. AUS isnt any of those cities. BOS is a huge market to Asia and Europe. AUS is not.

No its not a podunk town at all. I get that and my family lives north of Austin so Im quite familiar with what it is. But this list of destinations is a huge stretch. Yes, I could see AMS. Maybe 3x weekly to Asia. I cant see DXB at all.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:28 pm

acavpics wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
I could see maybe CDG or AMS and maybe ICN. AUS is simply too close to DFW/IAH to get much more, and since they probably won’t be a hub ever, some of these destinations just aren’t feasible.


Did you forget that Austin is one of the fastest growing metros in the entire country? Let alone Texas.
Roughly 50 people move into the city each day. With that kind of population growth, there's obviously gonna be more demand for international service.


vin2basketball wrote:
kimimm19 wrote:
Yeah I think Podonktown, USA is eyeing big international routes as well...


AUS by itself is a 2.1 million person metro area, but the catchment area for international flying includes SAT at 2.5 million people, so the combined catchment for int'l flying is at least 4.6 million people. The drive from AUS (the airport) to San Antonio is under 90 minutes, and for the wealthiest San Antonio suburbs (where most int'l demand is likely to originate) it can be under 75 minutes.

A 4 million catchment puts AUS above LAS, PDX, DEN, SAN, MSP, SEA, DTW, all of which have nonstop service to Asia, plus ahead of CLT, MCO, PHX which have multiple TATL flights.


Why is a.net so fixated on using population as a metric to determine int'l air service. Population by itself is one of the worst metrics to use in order to justify int'l flights.

Much better to bring up Foreign Direct Investment into the local area, local companies making major investments abroad, business synergies between to areas, e.t.c. all of which are things that drive the development of lucrative international routes.

I'd say discussing those is better than arguing that "XYZ has 2.5 million people and ABC has 4 million, therefore ABC deserves more service."
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Longhornmaniac
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:30 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
acavpics wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
I could see maybe CDG or AMS and maybe ICN. AUS is simply too close to DFW/IAH to get much more, and since they probably won’t be a hub ever, some of these destinations just aren’t feasible.


Did you forget that Austin is one of the fastest growing metros in the entire country? Let alone Texas.
Roughly 50 people move into the city each day. With that kind of population growth, there's obviously gonna be more demand for international service.


Type of growth is important. Austin's growth is overwhelming domestic to the same degree Houston's is overwhelmingly international. DFW is somewhere in between.


Without a doubt, but I'd caution you about assuming that domestic growth is Anglo growth. Population trends in Austin are dramatically non-Anglo, with Hispanic and Asian making up the substantial majority.

A lot of that growth is coming from California, and a lot of that is first and second generation Asian Americans which retain strong demand to the East.
Cheers,
Cameron
 
TWA902fly
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:30 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
Yeah I think Podonktown, USA is eyeing big international routes as well...


You are aware the Austin metro area's GDP is roughly the same as Brussels, right? With almost an identical population size.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
bravotango75
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:31 pm

:lol:
hiflyeras wrote:
Awww this is so cute! Daddy, can I fly to everywhere in the world non-stop? No, honey...you're not big enough yet.

Thinking the same, Texas wants to compete with the ‘big boysz’...good luck... :lol:
 
BNAMealer
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:38 pm

acavpics wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
I could see maybe CDG or AMS and maybe ICN. AUS is simply too close to DFW/IAH to get much more, and since they probably won’t be a hub ever, some of these destinations just aren’t feasible.


Did you forget that Austin is one of the fastest growing metros in the entire country? Let alone Texas.
Roughly 50 people move into the city each day. With that kind of population growth, there's obviously gonna be more demand for international service.


Sure, but without a hub, AUS will have to rely on O&D alone to fill the planes. Do you honestly think it will have enough for places such as DXB? No.

AUS is growing, but let’s get real here....
 
patrickjp93
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:41 pm

TWA902fly wrote:
kimimm19 wrote:
Yeah I think Podonktown, USA is eyeing big international routes as well...


You are aware the Austin metro area's GDP is roughly the same as Brussels, right? With almost an identical population size.

'902


Brussels Airport is also just a vastly better airport than AUS. No one is happy clearing customs in the U.S.. I think IAH may be the best at it. AUS is almost as bad as LAX. Over 75 minutes to clear customs and get baggage from the first international flight of the morning
 
Longhornmaniac
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:51 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
acavpics wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
I could see maybe CDG or AMS and maybe ICN. AUS is simply too close to DFW/IAH to get much more, and since they probably won’t be a hub ever, some of these destinations just aren’t feasible.


Did you forget that Austin is one of the fastest growing metros in the entire country? Let alone Texas.
Roughly 50 people move into the city each day. With that kind of population growth, there's obviously gonna be more demand for international service.


Sure, but without a hub, AUS will have to rely on O&D alone to fill the planes. Do you honestly think it will have enough for places such as DXB? No.

AUS is growing, but let’s get real here....


Is there enough O&D between AUS and DXB to fill a flight? God no. Luckily, DXB is a hub with arguably the best onward connections to the Indian subcontinent, which not only is the second largest (and likely fastest growing) minority in Austin, but has substantial business ties to the city. Certainly, BA and LH have tapped into this, as well, and I don't think there is currently a need for more, but it's far from far-fetched (heh) down the road a ways.
Cheers,
Cameron
 
airbazar
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Re: AUS eyes nonstop flights to 7 interc’l destinations: AMS, BJS, DUB, CDG, ICN, PVG, TYO

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:52 pm

Prost wrote:
I believe AUS would need an airline to hub there in order to make those destinations work.

BOS disagrees.
Although B6 does provide a lot of connectivity at BOS for their partners, BOS had a good amount of international service long before B6 even existed.
What counts for international service is the makeup of the local economy more than anything else. If the local economy is diversified and focused on global sectors like Tech and Life sciences that's important.

BNAMealer wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
I think it is realistic if the global economy does not enter a major recession.

Just recall Boston had its first Asian carrier/destination (JAL to NRT) in 2012 and so far it has gained Seoul, Shanghai, Beijing, Hong Kong, Casablanca, Dubai, Doha, Istanbul and Tel Aviv, in addition to a few European destinations.


BOS and AUS is not an apples to apples comparison. BOS is a much larger, globalized market with two hub carriers.

They are not that different if you compare today's AUS with BOS 20 years ago or so when they already had service to places like CDG, AMS, Seoul (SEL), and it would have had NRT had it not been for 9/11. So no, I don't think that list is all that far fetched. In fact you can probably find threads here on a.net from 20-25 years ago when BOS had the same exact wish list and everyone thought it was ridiculous.

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