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greenair727
Topic Author
Posts: 1468
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

UA FA Helps Boy With Autism

Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:47 pm

We've become so accustomed to flight attendants power tripping, throwing people off planes, killing pets (UA), and calling police to bloody passengers who won't give up their assigned seat post-boarding (UA) that when they do something otherwise, its national/international news. On this UA flight, as an autistic kid refused to sit still before takeoff, rather than return to the gate and throw him off the plane--the more expected response these days--they were actually nice to him. Did UA staff go through massive re-training or were these just nice individuals on this flight?

A boy with autism wouldn't sit still on a United Airlines flight. So crew and passengers stepped in to help.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/unit ... index.html
 
cpd
Posts: 6453
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Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:05 pm

Tremendously well done. :)
 
LHUSA
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Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:05 pm

Negativity gets a lot more traction in the media, so why let the truth get in the way of a good story? Btw, Dr. Dao had nothing to do with FAs (as if they have to power to tell the police to beat someone up as you implied.)

The dog story is perfect example of the world believing a random twitter user over the actual events that took place. It's way more fun to believe an FA told a person to stuff a dog into an overhead bin, than to hear the boring story of it being a very sad and unfortunate accident as a result of a language barrier.

Point is, way more good stuff than bad stuff happens on airlines every day. Some gets media traction, but most not.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:09 pm

Well done them!
 
Judge1310
Posts: 414
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Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:36 pm

LHUSA wrote:
Negativity gets a lot more traction in the media, so why let the truth get in the way of a good story? Btw, Dr. Dao had nothing to do with FAs (as if they have to power to tell the police to beat someone up as you implied.)

The dog story is perfect example of the world believing a random twitter user over the actual events that took place. It's way more fun to believe an FA told a person to stuff a dog into an overhead bin, than to hear the boring story of it being a very sad and unfortunate accident as a result of a language barrier.

Point is, way more good stuff than bad stuff happens on airlines every day. Some gets media traction, but most not.


Thank you!!
 
B757Forever
Posts: 887
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 3:23 am

Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:39 pm

Plain and simple. These are good people just being themselves.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:57 pm

Great to see FAs try to defuse a situation as much as possible, with the parents help.

One thing bugs me though:
"Then they sprang into action," Gabriel added. First, they let Braysen sit on her lap for takeoff while the father was holding him. Then, after the seat belt sign was turned off, his mother let the boy down because he was screaming and fighting her.

Is it OK for FAs to pick and chose which FAR to follow? The boy was 4 and, per 14 CFR 135.128 (a) (1):
a child may [...] [b]e held by an adult who is occupying an approved seat or berth, provided the child has not reached his or her second birthday and the child does not occupy or use any restraining device

meaning he should not have been sitting on his mother's laps.

Please don't take it as an attack on the FAs actions; they acted in the best interest of everyone. But I'm genuinely curious to know if it's OK for them to break FARs.
 
greenair727
Topic Author
Posts: 1468
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Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:00 pm

LHUSA wrote:
...The dog story is perfect example of the world believing a random twitter user over the actual events that took place. It's way more fun to believe an FA told a person to stuff a dog into an overhead bin, than to hear the boring story of it being a very sad and unfortunate accident as a result of a language barrier.


I'm not saying the UA dog killing incident was intentional. But its certainly more than a language issue where you had one person who must obey (under fear of being thrown off the plane) and the other in a position of power and tremendous pressure. And the 'tremendous pressure' here is key and I think was was the ultimate cause of United asphyxiating the dog. UA crew were under major pressure to get the plane out on time to help it with its on time performance goals. As a result, fight attendants were frequently less than patient or kind or attentive to individual needs as they rushed to get the plane ready to close the door. This was UA's management and corporate style which manifested in how FAs were forced to behave.
 
mysfit
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Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:16 pm

Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:05 pm

Can we just please enjoy a simple, feel good story without it devolving into the same old battles?

Shame on you people always looking to piss and moan when it just isn't called for.
 
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Seabear
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Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:07 pm

It's a shame when simple human kindness is newsworthy, let alone the exception.
 
greenair727
Topic Author
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Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:10 pm

^Exactly.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2265
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:18 pm

mysfit wrote:
Can we just please enjoy a simple, feel good story without it devolving into the same old battles?

Shame on you people always looking to piss and moan when it just isn't called for.


Thank you....some people just can't seem to control their tendency towards negativity. I wonder if they have any friends at all.
 
nws2002
Posts: 918
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:04 pm

Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:17 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Great to see FAs try to defuse a situation as much as possible, with the parents help.

One thing bugs me though:
"Then they sprang into action," Gabriel added. First, they let Braysen sit on her lap for takeoff while the father was holding him. Then, after the seat belt sign was turned off, his mother let the boy down because he was screaming and fighting her.

Is it OK for FAs to pick and chose which FAR to follow? The boy was 4 and, per 14 CFR 135.128 (a) (1):
a child may [...] [b]e held by an adult who is occupying an approved seat or berth, provided the child has not reached his or her second birthday and the child does not occupy or use any restraining device

meaning he should not have been sitting on his mother's laps.

Please don't take it as an attack on the FAs actions; they acted in the best interest of everyone. But I'm genuinely curious to know if it's OK for them to break FARs.


This would actually fall under Part 121, not 135, but the actually regulations are pretty much identical. If that is true, they did violate the regulation. It also seems intentional so I don't know if they'd be covered by filing an ASAP report. No doubt it was probably the correct thing to do in the circumstances, but I don't know if the FAA would see it that way.
 
guy739
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Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:48 am

Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:25 am

As a Flight Attendant, I don’t agree with the whole power trip thing. However with that said, FAR’s are in place for a reason. That reason being safety. I understand the challenges of traveling with children, special needs or not. I see it on a daily basis. The fact that they allowed a child of that age to not be property secured for takeoff is a blatant disregard for FAR’s and safety.

Was the child upset? Yes. Was he being disruptive? Yes. Was he safe? No. What’s the biggest issue here?

There is a big difference between being on a power trip and looking out for the safety of your passengers.
 
jayunited
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Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:34 am

guy739 wrote:
As a Flight Attendant, I don’t agree with the whole power trip thing. However with that said, FAR’s are in place for a reason. That reason being safety. I understand the challenges of traveling with children, special needs or not. I see it on a daily basis. The fact that they allowed a child of that age to not be property secured for takeoff is a blatant disregard for FAR’s and safety.

Was the child upset? Yes. Was he being disruptive? Yes. Was he safe? No. What’s the biggest issue here?

There is a big difference between being on a power trip and looking out for the safety of your passengers.


Since you have posted an insightful response I must ask what would your response have been in this situation? Since the the clearly refused to sit in his own seat would you have requested the pilot return to the gate and remove the family from the flight all in the name of safety?

I completely understand the rules but sometimes blinding following the rules or trying to hide behind the rules gets UA into trouble.
So if you were working this flight how would you have handled this situation?
 
guy739
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:48 am

Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:04 am

jayunited wrote:
guy739 wrote:
As a Flight Attendant, I don’t agree with the whole power trip thing. However with that said, FAR’s are in place for a reason. That reason being safety. I understand the challenges of traveling with children, special needs or not. I see it on a daily basis. The fact that they allowed a child of that age to not be property secured for takeoff is a blatant disregard for FAR’s and safety.

Was the child upset? Yes. Was he being disruptive? Yes. Was he safe? No. What’s the biggest issue here?

There is a big difference between being on a power trip and looking out for the safety of your passengers.


Since you have posted an insightful response I must ask what would your response have been in this situation? Since the the clearly refused to sit in his own seat would you have requested the pilot return to the gate and remove the family from the flight all in the name of safety?

I completely understand the rules but sometimes blinding following the rules or trying to hide behind the rules gets UA into trouble.
So if you were working this flight how would you have handled this situation?


First and foremost I would talk to the parents. Explain why we needed the child in his own seat. i think that’s where the biggest disconnect is from crew and passengers. It immediately gets escalated to such an extreme. After having talked to them, I can’t really give you an answer as it’s all hypothetical.

Hopefully at that point the parents would understand and at the very least for takeoff keep him in his seat. Again, the child may be disruptive, but frankly, it’s public transportation, it is what it is. At least the child would be safe.

If they didn’t, and this is where it gets tricky, can I let my aircraft take off knowing the child isn’t in there seat? If I do, and we abort the take off or stop suddenly on the taxiway and the child gets injured, I’m going to have to explain why. If I don’t allow my aircraft to go because they aren’t in their seat I’m going to also have to explain why. In both cases I’m the bad person. It’s a delicate balance between keeping safety a priority, but also covering myself by enforcing FAR’s.

It’s not a perfect world and no situation is going to be black and white. But ultimately, I wouldn’t disagree with a Flight Attendant following FAR’s.
 
catiii
Posts: 3610
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:22 am

greenair727 wrote:
We've become so accustomed to flight attendants power tripping, throwing people off planes, killing pets (UA), and calling police to bloody passengers who won't give up their assigned seat post-boarding (UA) that when they do something otherwise, its national/international news. On this UA flight, as an autistic kid refused to sit still before takeoff, rather than return to the gate and throw him off the plane--the more expected response these days--they were actually nice to him. Did UA staff go through massive re-training or were these just nice individuals on this flight?

A boy with autism wouldn't sit still on a United Airlines flight. So crew and passengers stepped in to help.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/unit ... index.html


Man did you come in hot with an anti-UA agenda and a dramatic post. To say nothing of the fact that you're factually inaccurate (no UA flight attendant called police to "bloody passengers who won't give up their assigned seat post boarding," shall we go through and highlight the misdeeds of other airline's flight attendants?
 
catiii
Posts: 3610
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:24 am

greenair727 wrote:
LHUSA wrote:
...The dog story is perfect example of the world believing a random twitter user over the actual events that took place. It's way more fun to believe an FA told a person to stuff a dog into an overhead bin, than to hear the boring story of it being a very sad and unfortunate accident as a result of a language barrier.


I'm not saying the UA dog killing incident was intentional. But its certainly more than a language issue where you had one person who must obey (under fear of being thrown off the plane) and the other in a position of power and tremendous pressure. And the 'tremendous pressure' here is key and I think was was the ultimate cause of United asphyxiating the dog. UA crew were under major pressure to get the plane out on time to help it with its on time performance goals. As a result, fight attendants were frequently less than patient or kind or attentive to individual needs as they rushed to get the plane ready to close the door. This was UA's management and corporate style which manifested in how FAs were forced to behave.


Actually, they weren't under "major pressure." The door was closed and they, like at any airline, told the passenger that the aisle had to be clear and the bag placed in the overhead. You're drawing conclusions from facts that aren't in evidence.
 
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Pudelhund
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:29 am

greenair727 wrote:
We've become so accustomed to flight attendants power tripping, throwing people off planes, killing pets (UA), and calling police to bloody passengers who won't give up their assigned seat post-boarding (UA) that when they do something otherwise, its national/international news. On this UA flight, as an autistic kid refused to sit still before takeoff, rather than return to the gate and throw him off the plane--the more expected response these days--they were actually nice to him. Did UA staff go through massive re-training or were these just nice individuals on this flight?

A boy with autism wouldn't sit still on a United Airlines flight. So crew and passengers stepped in to help.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/unit ... index.html


I find it amusing that you use extremely uncommon and outrageous events (otherwise they wouldn’t be newsworthy) to generalize the entire atttitude of FAs, and at the same time, when a single one does something good, you again have to generalize and ask if all of them got new training or something. It’s like you are incapable of processing anecdotal events without them having to reform your entire narrative of something. It’s like ultimate media sheep. The simple truth is that most flight attendants are ordinary people doing a job and sometimes they do it poorly and sometimes they do it well.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2965
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:36 am

guy739 wrote:
First and foremost I would talk to the parents. Explain why we needed the child in his own seat. i think that’s where the biggest disconnect is from crew and passengers. It immediately gets escalated to such an extreme. After having talked to them, I can’t really give you an answer as it’s all hypothetical.

Hopefully at that point the parents would understand and at the very least for takeoff keep him in his seat. Again, the child may be disruptive, but frankly, it’s public transportation, it is what it is. At least the child would be safe.

If they didn’t, and this is where it gets tricky, can I let my aircraft take off knowing the child isn’t in there seat? If I do, and we abort the take off or stop suddenly on the taxiway and the child gets injured, I’m going to have to explain why. If I don’t allow my aircraft to go because they aren’t in their seat I’m going to also have to explain why. In both cases I’m the bad person. It’s a delicate balance between keeping safety a priority, but also covering myself by enforcing FAR’s.

It’s not a perfect world and no situation is going to be black and white. But ultimately, I wouldn’t disagree with a Flight Attendant following FAR’s.


According to the article they did talk to the parents which is how the crew found out the child was autistic which is when the crew started working with the parents to find a way to secure their child for takeoff. These FA's know the rules but they also realized the challenges of traveling with a child who has autism. Reading the article it seems as if the child was secured by both parents for takeoff.

I just think airlines, UA in particular we have to do a better job and while I get the rules and your explanation we have to come up with ways to solve problems that don't include kicking people off flights or taking a situation to the extreme because they are traveling with a child who has autism and is having a bad day.
 
ScorpioMC3
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:52 am

Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:27 am

jayunited wrote:
guy739 wrote:
As a Flight Attendant, I don’t agree with the whole power trip thing. However with that said, FAR’s are in place for a reason. That reason being safety. I understand the challenges of traveling with children, special needs or not. I see it on a daily basis. The fact that they allowed a child of that age to not be property secured for takeoff is a blatant disregard for FAR’s and safety.

Was the child upset? Yes. Was he being disruptive? Yes. Was he safe? No. What’s the biggest issue here?

There is a big difference between being on a power trip and looking out for the safety of your passengers.


Since you have posted an insightful response I must ask what would your response have been in this situation? Since the the clearly refused to sit in his own seat would you have requested the pilot return to the gate and remove the family from the flight all in the name of safety?

I completely understand the rules but sometimes blinding following the rules or trying to hide behind the rules gets UA into trouble.
So if you were working this flight how would you have handled this situation?


I used to be an FA. I had a medical situation on board where the nurse and paramedic who volunteered their assistance insisted on staying with the ill passenger for landing. Can I force them to sit down? I guess. I could've had some big guys try and drag them to their seats and break out the flex cuffs. Instead I made sure they knew they were not at all required to stay with the passenger and that for their safety I advise that they take their seats and fasten their seatbelts. They both said they understood the risks and wanted to stay with the sick guy. I instructed them on how to best brace themselves and allowed them to stay with the sick passenger. After the flight, I wrote up the incident in great detail and explained why we had two people out of their seats for landing.

As an FA your job is to make the best judgement calls based on the situation and sometimes it is not as simple as follow the FAR or violate it.
 
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Super80Fan
Posts: 1622
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Re: UA FA Helps Boy With Autism

Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:29 am

It's always nice to see some nice FA stories out there instead of the usual "FA on power-trip goes ballistic on passengers/company".

Hope she gets a promotion.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
VC10er
Posts: 4268
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: UA FA Helps Boy With Autism

Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:14 am

greenair727 wrote:
We've become so accustomed to flight attendants power tripping, throwing people off planes, killing pets (UA), and calling police to bloody passengers who won't give up their assigned seat post-boarding (UA) that when they do something otherwise, its national/international news. On this UA flight, as an autistic kid refused to sit still before takeoff, rather than return to the gate and throw him off the plane--the more expected response these days--they were actually nice to him. Did UA staff go through massive re-training or were these just nice individuals on this flight?

A boy with autism wouldn't sit still on a United Airlines flight. So crew and passengers stepped in to help.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/unit ... index.html


I’m sorry I know I should not feed the beast, but this initial post by greenair727 was shocking. Is the death of civility actually really happening?

I read this story yesterday and was thrilled to read something happy and great during this era of negative, hate filled news that can ruin a persons day. I figured this story would appear here on a.net.

Only to read the first post sink to the bottom, written only with 1 single intent; spoil everything (UA). And on top of that an ignorant, fact free post, as if a video was watched but doesn’t seek the truth- YouTube is satisfactory!. Then finishing touch of pure cynicism, as if the act of goodness at (UA) was a one off event? (Where is that “shame” nun from GoT when you need her?)

I actually felt such enormous relief yesterday that this was front page news. Thanks to the editors who put this story front and center yesterday. I think I can speak for the majority by saying we are all so fatigued with bad and negative news bombarding us daily. Thanks to the UNITED FA’s, the passengers (especially the gentleman sitting in First) - finally reading something redeeming about civility in the air!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2265
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Non-power tripping FAs - Newsworthy

Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:53 pm

Pudelhund wrote:

I find it amusing that you use extremely uncommon and outrageous events (otherwise they wouldn’t be newsworthy) to generalize the entire atttitude of FAs, and at the same time, when a single one does something good, you again have to generalize and ask if all of them got new training or something. It’s like you are incapable of processing anecdotal events without them having to reform your entire narrative of something. It’s like ultimate media sheep. The simple truth is that most flight attendants are ordinary people doing a job and sometimes they do it poorly and sometimes they do it well.


Love this! Thirty five year FA here and could not have said it better myself.
Thank you!!
 
greenair727
Topic Author
Posts: 1468
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: UA FA Helps Boy With Autism

Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:31 pm

VC10er wrote:
Is the death of civility actually really happening?

I read this story yesterday and was thrilled to read something happy and great during this era of negative, hate filled news that can ruin a persons day. I figured this story would appear here on a.net. Only to read the first post sink to the bottom, written only with 1 single intent; spoil everything (UA)....


Indeed there is less civility these days. That's why this single event (even if violating Part 121 rules) is newsworthy---it is the thoughtful attention of the UNITED FAs. And the plane took off. A more expected response these days was to request to return to the gate to throw the kid off the plane.

My post was not to "spoil everything (UA)." It was to highlight the trend in the passenger experience in air travel by the treatment by airlines that when normal, kind human behavior happens---that's news! I travel a lot and on many airlines and while I haven't personally witnessed some of the more extreme things (which happened to be on UA---the dog killing and Dr. Dao bloodying--yes by police but for a situation caused by UA), I have noticed a degradation in service levels over the years. Delta is the only airline where I haven't noticed that. And yes, there are many drivers---more pax than ever, more mobile devices (pax not paying attention), probably greater percentage of pax with mental illness/society more stressed; more nonsense (emotional support chickens and raccoons), more pressure from management for greater profits/less ground time, etc---on all airlines. My post was not intended to be a jab at United (as the article commends UA), but a comment on air travel in general and what has become the new normal.

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