Pi7472000
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:42 am

AA is awful right now!! Spirits has been nicer than AA!!
 
geologyrocks
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:59 am

I had an award trip with them earlier this summer. Going there was fine. Coming back was the problem. There was weather. Look, I get it and I'm not blaming them for that but the way the whole thing was handled was miserable. After they eventually cancelled, they sent everyone to this giant line. While I was waiting in line, my phone updated saying I was now boarding in 1 day 20 hours. They were screaming at people in line that if they were in line to get a checked bag back that it wasn't going to happen and they'll get them at their final destination.

I eventually re-booked on Delta to get out. When I called to get my miles back for the one-way portion, they told me "You're only going to get 31% because we accommodated you 69% of the way to your destination."

It's just mind numbing.
 
WWads
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:36 am

I’d be fine with AA spiraling into the abyss if they didn’t happen to control most of the slots at DCA. At least the RJ operation isn’t suffering as much as LAA mainline.
 
questions
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:36 am

AA is today’s TWA.

Doug Parker has managed to accomplish one thing at AA: completely gut the brand.

When I fly within the US I fly F. AA used to have a really competitive F product, but no longer. Their employees are not engaged. Operationally AA is unreliable and unpredictable. I have not flown AA in over a year.

All operational, labor, service and product problems start and end with Doug Parker. He is an extremely weak “leader.” He lacks strategic thinking; the ability to consistently execute plans and deliver day to day operations; has been unable to evolve the business through innovation; and is incapable of developing leaders.

As much as people would like to see him go he probably still has a few years.
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:58 am

My personal experiences mirror those of others. On AA, the onboard experience is a toss-up, a gamble. On DL, it's much more consistent. People need to make plans, to know what to expect. Weather, mechanical issues can happen anywhere/anytime. But all other things being equal, DL provides a more consistent product and to at least me, that's very important.
Great Lakes, great life.
 
tcfc424
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:26 am

Outside of weather delays, I can't say that I've dealt with all that many delays on my 50 segments this year. That said, the soft product is a huge issue. Some individuals make a concerted effort to make the experience a great one, whether in Y or F (I only fly domestically for work). The greater majority, however, could give a &^%$. Rude, disengaged, lazy, you name it and you will see it. I actually had a flight attendant complain that I was interrupting her crossword when I stepped up to the front galley for some water. I had used the call button to no avail...and I was in F on a 4+ hour flight. I'm stuck. My company requires me to book within $100 of the cheapest roundtrip (including baggage fees and seat selection fees) which allows me to stay away from NK and F9, and I typically book <14 days so WN is usually up there as well. UA and DL are usually sky-high at that point. The legions of FF's like me, however, are there. 96 on the upgrade list for my last DFW-AUS flight...on an aircraft that seats ~170
 
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seabosdca
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:41 am

Not so long ago, flying AA felt like a premium experience, and I was happy to book AA for transcon trips when nonstops on AS were too expensive.

Now it honestly feels more like one of the gutted European legacies than UA, DL, or AS, and I won't book unless there's no other option.

Parker is the canonical example of short-term-obsessed American corporate management. Happy to destroy goodwill that took years to build if it gets him 2 cents more per share on next quarter's report. AA won't come back until the board grows a pair and fires him.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:47 am

Really? I've had nothing but good experiences on AA this summer (although we waited 30 minutes to takeoff out of DFW, but I blame the airport for that).

Delta has also been very good to me this summer in almost all categories except the DGS agents at DTW, what horrid sorry excuses for "human" beings.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
WN732
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:10 am

I recently flew AA on two MD80 flights. It was a similar experience to flying other airlines. However I found that boarding on both occasions was a complete mess. The inflight service was decent but that also seemed highly inefficient and slow. But other than that it was on par with United. Delta and WN play on a different field as they both aim to be more lively and the product is predictable on every flight.
 
grbauc
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:03 am

AABB777 wrote:
Longtime and loyal AA customer here with Exec Plat status and I started flying DL this week. Onboard my second DL flight currently. AA has a problem and it starts at the top with Doug Parker. He has destroyed AA and its brand and it’s time for him to go and replaced with a new executive management team. From AA operations (which I put much blame on the mechanics union) to the onboard premium products and employee morale, AA is not the AA I have been loyal to and the AA BoD needs to take action soon.



There advertising is all cruise ship adds and cheap cc emails. AA has done some good things and failed on others and appears to be not heading in the right direction for awhile now. Not sure why he overstayed his time at AA. DP has the money and the history making rise but doesn't appear to know when to get out IMOP.
 
codc10
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:10 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
I remember when this board hated Kirby. What changed?


People assumed that he was the one pushing for ever greater cuts to the product and driving the mantra of cost cutting uber alles. His time at United has shown that almost certainly was not the case, he is a very smart man and understands the balance between running an efficient business and investing in your product to attract higher revenue.


People on the inside say Kirby, to his credit, has evolved since he started at United. Some major backlash and PR blunders (see, for instance, the proposed employee bonus program) have humbled him and caused him to take a hard look at some of his more unpopular fundamental positions. There are also, for the first time, quality managers around a high level United executive. Most of the post-merger team has been purged.
 
blueflyer
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:52 am

Flying both regularly, AA looks to me like the UA of a few years past... Coin toss as to whether the flights would operate on time and the crew would be pleasant to deal with. UA did recover...

Unlike others' experience, I actually think they're doing well for IRROPS recovery, thanks to their app. Half of my flight delays, I get notified even before I leave home/hotel, if a flight cancels, I get reasonable options almost immediately... Don't know whether it is luck or status or mostly non-stop flights or a combination, but the recovery works for me (they beat UA imho). I only wish they didn't have to practice their recovery skills so often...
The Trump/Johnson special relationship: Special people on both sides of the Atlantic
 
Cointrin330
Topic Author
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:09 pm

questions wrote:
AA is today’s TWA.

Doug Parker has managed to accomplish one thing at AA: completely gut the brand.

When I fly within the US I fly F. AA used to have a really competitive F product, but no longer. Their employees are not engaged. Operationally AA is unreliable and unpredictable. I have not flown AA in over a year.

All operational, labor, service and product problems start and end with Doug Parker. He is an extremely weak “leader.” He lacks strategic thinking; the ability to consistently execute plans and deliver day to day operations; has been unable to evolve the business through innovation; and is incapable of developing leaders.

As much as people would like to see him go he probably still has a few years.


AA is far from being today's TWA. It has a very strong route network, fortress hubs, and considerable market share. It is not in a financial tailspin and is not saddled with old jets. The problem I see with Parker is him trying to run AA as though it was still US.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:10 pm

blueflyer wrote:
Flying both regularly, AA looks to me like the UA of a few years past... Coin toss as to whether the flights would operate on time and the crew would be pleasant to deal with. UA did recover...

Unlike others' experience, I actually think they're doing well for IRROPS recovery, thanks to their app. Half of my flight delays, I get notified even before I leave home/hotel, if a flight cancels, I get reasonable options almost immediately... Don't know whether it is luck or status or mostly non-stop flights or a combination, but the recovery works for me (they beat UA imho). I only wish they didn't have to practice their recovery skills so often...


Sums it up well.
 
OB1504
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:42 pm

UWPAviation wrote:
They have zero identity. They don’t want to be a premium product like DL and UA. But they don’t want to be a LCC like WN and JetBlue. Like mentioned, you could get a grey 738 with IFE and new seats or a bone dry one.


AA’s current direction is simple. They want to have their cake and eat it too by trying to sell a Spirit product at Delta prices.

Miamiairport wrote:
Constant weather in MIA and the Max issue made the summer particularly hellish for AA. AA just doesn't seem to have a robust recovery process. However, for this most recent hurricane hitting FL I was able to get through within minutes (as a PLT) and have my flights rescheduled to a better time.

The biggest issue AA has is with the banking of hubs. They just can't handle it. From a customer prospective AA should de-bank hubs (which years ago LAA did to reduce delays) but I can't see Parker giving up the additional revenue potential. He'd rather have paxs sleeping in the airport. MIA looks like a homeless shelter at night because of all the missed connections going South.


In terms of weather related disruptions, this summer at MIA was smoother than last year with fewer and shorter ramp closures. There’s been an undeniable spike in maintenance delays and cancellations, however. The delays drag out for hours and are the main reason I don’t even consider AA when buying plane tickets anymore. Sometimes it feels like even Frontier would be more reliable.

jumbojet wrote:
It largely depends on what aircraft your on when it comes to the overall premium cabin experience between AA and DL, so your statement is obviously biased and in no way shape or form fair, The DL D1 suite on the 777, 350 and 330 NEO handily beats just about anything AA has whereas the DL 763 J seat is just about the worst out there. So, it doesnt surprise me, or anyone else for that matter I am sure, that you take this opportunity to knock DL.


Don’t AA and Delta use the same 763 J seat?
 
max999
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:08 pm

OB1504 wrote:

Don’t AA and Delta use the same 763 J seat?


Yes, but... AA chose not to install IFE monitors in their 763 J Seat. Instead, there's an empty tablet holder in its place. On long haul flights, they hand out a tablet to J passengers. You get nothing on a domestic 763 flight.

And of course, no IFE monitors in Y.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:42 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
The problem I see with Parker is him trying to run AA as though it was still US.

>>>THIS<<<
Great Lakes, great life.
 
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spinotter
Posts: 603
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:44 pm

geologyrocks wrote:
I had an award trip with them earlier this summer. Going there was fine. Coming back was the problem. There was weather. Look, I get it and I'm not blaming them for that but the way the whole thing was handled was miserable. After they eventually cancelled, they sent everyone to this giant line. While I was waiting in line, my phone updated saying I was now boarding in 1 day 20 hours. They were screaming at people in line that if they were in line to get a checked bag back that it wasn't going to happen and they'll get them at their final destination.

I eventually re-booked on Delta to get out. When I called to get my miles back for the one-way portion, they told me "You're only going to get 31% because we accommodated you 69% of the way to your destination."

It's just mind numbing.


So how much back would have been fair in your opinion?
 
mcoatc
Posts: 162
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:23 am

Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:56 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
Really? I've had nothing but good experiences on AA this summer (although we waited 30 minutes to takeoff out of DFW, but I blame the airport for that).

Delta has also been very good to me this summer in almost all categories except the DGS agents at DTW, what horrid sorry excuses for "human" beings.


I'm intrigued. How is a 30 minute departure queue the airport's fault? If AA pushes out 70 departures in a 45 minute period, and ATC has two departure runways, how exactly is your sitting at the end of the runway not the result of how AA chooses to run its operation?

It's the nature of a banked operation. You taxi out later in the bank, you're gonna sit for a while.
 
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American 767
Posts: 4441
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:06 pm

mcoatc wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Really? I've had nothing but good experiences on AA this summer (although we waited 30 minutes to takeoff out of DFW, but I blame the airport for that).

Delta has also been very good to me this summer in almost all categories except the DGS agents at DTW, what horrid sorry excuses for "human" beings.


I'm intrigued. How is a 30 minute departure queue the airport's fault? If AA pushes out 70 departures in a 45 minute period, and ATC has two departure runways, how exactly is your sitting at the end of the runway not the result of how AA chooses to run its operation?

It's the nature of a banked operation. You taxi out later in the bank, you're gonna sit for a while.


Long departure queues don't bother me. Whether going back to the gate because there is a tech issue, whether excessive amount of traffic, or weather related...I don't care...doesn't bother me. The only time when a long wait on the tarmac will bother me is if it will make me miss a connection upon arriving at destination. But if my destination is my final destination, no one is picking me up and I don't have to be anywhere at a particular time...no problem. I don't mind.
Ben Soriano
 
mcoatc
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:31 pm

American 767 wrote:

Long departure queues don't bother me. Whether going back to the gate because there is a tech issue, whether excessive amount of traffic, or weather related...I don't care...doesn't bother me. The only time when a long wait on the tarmac will bother me is if it will make me miss a connection upon arriving at destination. But if my destination is my final destination, no one is picking me up and I don't have to be anywhere at a particular time...no problem. I don't mind.


I think you're more tolerant than most people. Most travelers don't always understand every operational issue.

The reality is AA pads it's schedule for the 20 minutes you may await takeoff. AA is also notoriously bad at not having their performance numbers, so you can be number 2 for takeoff with a crew who can't go anywhere. For years, it always seemed that whatever money was saved on ground personnel was being burned twofold in jet A awaiting numbers, but what do I know. AA's industry leading financials and top operational performance always prove me wrong.
 
alasizon
Posts: 1953
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:43 pm

mcoatc wrote:
The reality is AA pads it's schedule for the 20 minutes you may await takeoff.


Taxi-out isn't padded for 20 minutes. In a nut shell the team that creates the block times takes the average taxi-out for that given departure time over the prior twelve or twenty four months and averages it out to roughly the 80th percentile and that is the taxi-out time for that particular departure time, regardless of actual flight destination.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
mcoatc
Posts: 162
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:50 pm

alasizon wrote:
mcoatc wrote:
The reality is AA pads it's schedule for the 20 minutes you may await takeoff.


Taxi-out isn't padded for 20 minutes. In a nut shell the team that creates the block times takes the average taxi-out for that given departure time over the prior twelve or twenty four months and averages it out to roughly the 80th percentile and that is the taxi-out time for that particular departure time, regardless of actual flight destination.


Much appreciated. I always wondered exactly how these sorts of things are calculated.

I guess my quick response was simply that a good part of the holding time is accounted for. Of course, there are a multitude of factors that will affect how accurate it is day to day.

Of course, it can work the same way on arrival. Don't use the allotted time on departure and you can find yourself waiting on a gate on arrival.
 
geologyrocks
Posts: 161
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:06 pm

spinotter wrote:

So how much back would have been fair in your opinion?


100% of the one way portion. Flying someone to the hub and then telling them that they’re stuck there for two nights isn’t accommodating. I wish they had cancelled me in Portland - at least then I would have flown non-stop after paying full fare.
 
hondah35
Posts: 49
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:13 pm

Justapax wrote:
codc10 wrote:
[

There's no doubt that Kirby's arrival at UA coincided with the company really hitting its stride. Many wonder if he was really the brains behind the Parker-Kirby operation.


codc: I remember reading an interview with Doug Parker after Scott Kirby. Parker said he fired Kirby and something like it was the hardest decision of his life.

I now wonder if Parker was the person who kept pushing for cuts at AA and Kirby was the one who resisted some of the things Parker wanted to do.

It certainly has been fascinating to see the success Kirby has had at UA...and how AA has had more than its share of problems.


Other way around. When US Airways suspended free beverage service for awhile there back in 2008 or so, believe me that memo came from the desk of Kirby.
 
grbauc
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:46 pm

UWPAviation wrote:
AA to me has become the middle in-between DL, UA and then WN and JetBlue.

They have zero identity. They don’t want to be a premium product like DL and UA. But they don’t want to be a LCC like WN and JetBlue. Like mentioned, you could get a grey 738 with IFE and new seats or a bone dry one.

I loved the old AA pre merger. Was actually my airline of choice. Now I refuse to fly them. I fly WN and DL.



Yes there Identity is bland and lacking. I personally believe this has always been DP weak spot. The CC and Cruise Ship hawking is there identity.
 
grbauc
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:55 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Constant weather in MIA and the Max issue made the summer particularly hellish for AA. AA just doesn't seem to have a robust recovery process. However, for this most recent hurricane hitting FL I was able to get through within minutes (as a PLT) and have my flights rescheduled to a better time.

The biggest issue AA has is with the banking of hubs. They just can't handle it. From a customer prospective AA should de-bank hubs (which years ago LAA did to reduce delays) but I can't see Parker giving up the additional revenue potential. He'd rather have paxs sleeping in the airport. MIA looks like a homeless shelter at night because of all the missed connections going South.



All airlines of size suffer in major weather issues. AA for sure is very lacking in consistency on dealing with it in MIA im experience. Miss information from Club room to gate agents. Making it so that in 2-3 hour delays its impossible to go to the Club room but makes so you have to stay at the gate in case the delay changes and gate change/aircraft change or it boards and takes off early. Making extra stressful and club membership less valuable.
Airlines/airports (LAX-AA) that have it together in delay situations have let me know to head to the gate if my 2 hour delay plane boards early if im in the club room and have let them know. With AA the texts messages/ Staff either gate or club are rarely on the same page. It's a Mixed bag with AA during irregular ops. All airlines/airports struggle in this area some more so then others. AA for me has been very bad in this area especially MIA hub the last few year.
 
texdravid
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:20 am

A quick message to the perennially unhappy AA crew:

Start acting like professionals and quit treating your customers like a nuisance or crap.

A lot of us have issues with our employers and a lot of us want better hours and pay, but we don’t take it out on customers, who have nothing to do with it.

Either work hard and be professional or quit and work elsewhere, because we are tired of your lazy, incompetent and frankly arrogant demeanors while flying your airline.

Your fight is with Dougie Parker, not the passengers....
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
DFW17L
Posts: 164
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:57 pm

texdravid wrote:
A quick message to the perennially unhappy AA crew:

Start acting like professionals and quit treating your customers like a nuisance or crap.

A lot of us have issues with our employers and a lot of us want better hours and pay, but we don’t take it out on customers, who have nothing to do with it.

Either work hard and be professional or quit and work elsewhere, because we are tired of your lazy, incompetent and frankly arrogant demeanors while flying your airline.

Your fight is with Dougie Parker, not the passengers....

I find when I greet the crew with a sincere, warm smile, it makes all the difference. A great flight is a 50-50 proposition.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 926
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:21 pm

So, I guess my nearly 4 hour delay on last Sunday morning's MIA-LAX AA277 wasn't a fluke? Not to mention the hour of taxiing at LAX because of the delays leaving MIA?

It's hard for me to blame the flight crew or gate staff for the lack of information when the passengers are often notified of significant delays before the gate staff is, as I experienced on my AA277 flight. I got an alert that the flight had been delayed to 10:00 when some of the gate staff said they weren't notified (the departure had been pushed from 6:40 to 8:00 in 20 minute increments before it jumped to 10:00). Especially when you had not one, but two 77Ws held due to M/X issues at the same time (the timing of which struck me as very suspicious, especially given the labor dispute between AA and their M/X unions).

For the most part, most of my flying out of North Texas has been on AA out of DFW, partly by choice and partly by necessity (in contrast when WN was my go-to when I was living in Pittsburgh), so I'm kind of in the same boat as others in North Texas are as far as options go. Consistency in on-board offerings would be nice, though, as has been discussed upthread.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
YoungDon
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:25 pm

DFW17L wrote:
texdravid wrote:
A quick message to the perennially unhappy AA crew:

Start acting like professionals and quit treating your customers like a nuisance or crap.

A lot of us have issues with our employers and a lot of us want better hours and pay, but we don’t take it out on customers, who have nothing to do with it.

Either work hard and be professional or quit and work elsewhere, because we are tired of your lazy, incompetent and frankly arrogant demeanors while flying your airline.

Your fight is with Dougie Parker, not the passengers....

I find when I greet the crew with a sincere, warm smile, it makes all the difference. A great flight is a 50-50 proposition.


The flight crew on AA I find are generally pretty friendly. It's the ground-based crew and customer service personnel that are the worst.
 
tphuang
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:40 pm

American 767 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
tphuang wrote:


They must have the same problem in BOS...I mean similar. It is interesting that DL and B6 are both strong at both airports JFK and BOS. No wonder AA has a tough time competing against these two major players at these two airports, that's why they are building PHL for their TATL hub. The only difference with JFK is, MassPort may charge less for slots and landing fees in BOS, than what the PANYNJ charges for slots and landing fees in JFK. The only asset for AA that works well in JFK is the three-class product on multiple daily flights to LAX and SFO because there is a lot of Premium business traffic, especially to LAX. I think that AA sees JFK/LGA combined more as an O & D point, because they have a lot of customers in NYC, than a major connecting hub.


BOS is a little different. They retreated to hub flying because DL's incursion has killed yield at BOS. For a legacy airline, it means unless you are willing to lose a lot of money on neutral routes or routes to other people's hubs, you are going to withdraw from them. AA simply doesn't have any reason to go beyond their hubs at this point. They still actually have pretty strong point of sale at BOS just due to where their hubs are at and how many important international partners they have in BOS.

At JFK, they've simply given up imo. DL is the huge winner.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Posts: 850
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Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:14 pm

I would also posit that the title should be changed to "AA's Slow Descent Into Meltdown".

Virtually all airline employees will tell you that when they feel valued, they feel empowered. And when they feel empowered, they go the extra mile to ensure that things happen as quickly-but-safely as possible. And when Mother Nature moves in, they'll bust their butts to get their traveling guests to their destinations. Nobody wants extra passengers waiting around - they're in the way of the next group, and the quicker they get going, the better off everyone will be. Midway Airport on Memorial Day Monday after a thunderstorm blew through was the best example of this: The airport shut down for more than an hour, and operations took a while to get going again, but every single WN employee moved as fast as they could to get planes in, serviced, re-loaded, and into the sky. It promoted an incredible sense of, "as you can clearly see, ALL of us are doing our absolute best to get you going, so stay close, stand by, and listen CLOSELY to instructions!"

It has been my sad experience in the past years that every trip through DFW is that this once majestic facility is now filled with employees who, for the most part, are not happy. Being told by a gate agent in a very snippy tone, "we've been waiting for you!", after literally running to make a connection where literally everything that could go wrong did go wrong thanks to AA not being able operate anything competently after any kind of delay, isn't the sign of a well-run airline. I took a vow after biting my tongue off not replying to such rudeness that I will never connect through DFW unless my life depends on it, nor would I fly AA until such time as I am confident the airline has returned to the same standards and morale as it used to.

It breaks my heart to see this once great airline suffer from its near-destruction from poor decisions at the top - seemingly without any repercussions at all. I could go into a diatribe against the evils of Golden Parachutes and "promised bonuses" to top management, seemingly no matter that they bankrupted a company, but that I will leave for another thread. But competent management empowering employees, which would raise morale, would do more to fix AA's situation than anything else.
 
texdravid
Posts: 1813
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:30 pm

It just amazes me how much “sympathy” there is on this board for incompetent and lazy cabin crew because they don’t like management and their hours/pay. The ongoing view by many is that you can’t expect AA employees to do their jobs well unless they feel “empowered” or feel “good” about their jobs”!!

What absolute rubbish!! Thank God nurses at a hospital don’t feel the way all of you cabin crew apologists feel. How long would a floor or ICU nurse last if he/she said “I just do not feel like taking care of these patients today because my hospital CEO or nurse manager is mean to me!”

You AA cabin crew are responsible for 100’s of lives each flight and your crappy attitude and work habits are an abomination. Again, Just freakin quit if you hate your jobs that much that you would treat your passengers like crap.

No one feels sorry for your privileged and pampered union jobs. Not when people don’t have health insurance, benefits or PTO or other fringe benefits.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
vegas005
Posts: 305
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:25 am

Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:39 pm

Flash back to the early 1990s ....Eastern Airlines..the same hatred between management and union.. nothing new today...same crap, same poor service to the end user.
 
User avatar
spinotter
Posts: 603
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:21 pm

geologyrocks wrote:
spinotter wrote:

So how much back would have been fair in your opinion?


100% of the one way portion. Flying someone to the hub and then telling them that they’re stuck there for two nights isn’t accommodating. I wish they had cancelled me in Portland - at least then I would have flown non-stop after paying full fare.


Can I be a devil's advocate? They did fly you a part of the way one way, and it seems as if you want them to overlook that portion of your trip that they provided. And you chose not to take their next flight, never mind that they had told you in the small print that they could not guarantee to get you there on time. Am I wrong? So between 69% and 100%, is it a big deal for you?
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 7896
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:21 pm

spinotter wrote:
geologyrocks wrote:
spinotter wrote:

So how much back would have been fair in your opinion?


100% of the one way portion. Flying someone to the hub and then telling them that they’re stuck there for two nights isn’t accommodating. I wish they had cancelled me in Portland - at least then I would have flown non-stop after paying full fare.


Can I be a devil's advocate? They did fly you a part of the way one way, and it seems as if you want them to overlook that portion of your trip that they provided. And you chose not to take their next flight, never mind that they had told you in the small print that they could not guarantee to get you there on time. Am I wrong? So between 69% and 100%, is it a big deal for you?


The contract of carriage is based on origin and destination, hence why airlines are clamping down on hidden city ticketing. I have no horse in this race, but IMHO they can't have it both ways.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
alasizon
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:50 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
spinotter wrote:
geologyrocks wrote:

100% of the one way portion. Flying someone to the hub and then telling them that they’re stuck there for two nights isn’t accommodating. I wish they had cancelled me in Portland - at least then I would have flown non-stop after paying full fare.


Can I be a devil's advocate? They did fly you a part of the way one way, and it seems as if you want them to overlook that portion of your trip that they provided. And you chose not to take their next flight, never mind that they had told you in the small print that they could not guarantee to get you there on time. Am I wrong? So between 69% and 100%, is it a big deal for you?


The contract of carriage is based on origin and destination, hence why airlines are clamping down on hidden city ticketing. I have no horse in this race, but IMHO they can't have it both ways.


AA rebooked them on the next available flight though but they declined it. AA upheld their end of the CoC and refunded the unused portion. Every airline operates the same way.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
N649DL
Posts: 584
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:56 am

Maybe I have low expectations but I think AA is run fine except for the fact they have a ton of debt on their hands. Work force seems younger, planes are newer, but perhaps I have low expectations or something considering I dial them back flying them as a DL elite member. Ripping out PTV screens will suck though if they go this route.
 
geologyrocks
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:05 am

Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:07 am

spinotter wrote:
geologyrocks wrote:
spinotter wrote:

So how much back would have been fair in your opinion?


100% of the one way portion. Flying someone to the hub and then telling them that they’re stuck there for two nights isn’t accommodating. I wish they had cancelled me in Portland - at least then I would have flown non-stop after paying full fare.


Can I be a devil's advocate? They did fly you a part of the way one way, and it seems as if you want them to overlook that portion of your trip that they provided. And you chose not to take their next flight, never mind that they had told you in the small print that they could not guarantee to get you there on time. Am I wrong? So between 69% and 100%, is it a big deal for you?


48 hours is a long time to re-accommodate you and accommodating you to a hub has zero value. What if the routing was ATL to PDX by way of CLT? Are they going to give me back extra because technically CLT is farther away from the final destination.

Regardless, as I stated, the whole way they handled everything was just atrocious. When you’re stranding people for two nights and then literally yelling at people standing in line who want their checked bag back that they aren’t going to get them because “we have too many bags to sort” will get you negative attention.
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:46 pm

Unfortunately much of what has been discussed in not airline specific. It's what has happened as all airlines have geared their operations towards very high load factors. A summer with storms and the grounding of some a/c and there's the perfect storm. The inability to quickly recover and more importantly re-accommodated stranded flyers, particularly those with no status or low status that will end up on the bottom of the pile. There just aren't enough seats to do so.

Understandably ground staff and crew become angry and frustrated as they are forced to deal with the mobs of tired, mad and confused paxs. Many of these flyers with limited funds are forced to spend hours and a night(s) in the airport unable to get home or even shower.

This is the state of the industry and will only get worse as airlines squeeze more seats into planes and fill more seats with butts. Flying in summer time as a no status or low status paxs, particularly as a family can easily turn into one long nightmare. In the end blame the consumers. They are the ones filling the likes of Spirit and Frontier and thereby encouraging the legacy airlines to act as an ULCC.
 
Cointrin330
Topic Author
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:59 pm

Quite a damning article on Bloomberg this morning regarding AA, and Parker in particular.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nd=premium
 
kbmiflyer
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:47 pm

Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:00 pm

Typical AA summer problems yesterday on my final MD80 flight DFW-STL. My son and I made a special trip for labor day just to fly the MD80.

Problems start about 2 hours before the 1:45 takeoff as I get a text the flight is delayed until 2:00. I check and the inbound plane is on time at 12:45, so I figure either very minor maintenance or crew schedule issue. We board at 1:30 and I notice the cockpit is empty, so delayed pilots is reason for our delay.

2:00 comes along, and we have a FO but no Captain. FO says storms from two days ago still have scheduling messed up. Text flight delayed until 2:20.

2:20 still no captain. FO says he is on inbound flight. Text flight delayed until 2:40.

2:40 still no captain, apparently we have been assigned a different person. MD80 is starting to get warm. FA's doing their best by handing out water. We have been sitting on the plane for an hour. Text flight delayed until 2:55.

3:00 still no captain. Lead FA says he can't get a straight answer from operations on when one will show up, so he is going to deplane us and let us at least move around in the cooler waiting area. Text flight delayed until 3:35

As we deplane, captain walks up and ask why we are deplaning!! 5 minutes later we re-board, finally depart at 3:35. I should note that during this time the 3:15 DFW-STL MD80 flight leaves on time.

Flight was otherwise great, super FA crew. We land at 5:15, almost 2 hours late. We had the whole crew sign his Gemini Jets MD80 box to commemorate the last flight.

Gonna miss the MD80, but I hope AA figures out their issues soon. My delayed or cancelled flight % is starting to push 40% for the year.
 
Woofbite
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:02 pm

Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:39 pm

spinotter wrote:
geologyrocks wrote:
spinotter wrote:



Can I be a devil's advocate? They did fly you a part of the way one way, and it seems as if you want them to overlook that portion of your trip that they provided. And you chose not to take their next flight, never mind that they had told you in the small print that they could not guarantee to get you there on time. Am I wrong? So between 69% and 100%, is it a big deal for you?


A valid point from a pure economical sense maybe but to a customer who feels wronged, what's the big deal to AA if it soothes feathers and keeps his future business?
 
OneX123
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:08 am

Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:04 pm

GSPSPOT wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
The problem I see with Parker is him trying to run AA as though it was still US.

>>>THIS<<<


I've flown all the US3's this year and hold pretty much equivalent on all. Overall, I've found AA's product to be nice. (for the most part) friendly staff, on-time performance, consistent product, and can pretty much always get a window/aisle in economy plus (I am an AA Platinum).

That is, however, until last week when I flew ORD - PHX on a LUS A321. That thing is HORRIBLE. No PTVs, no power outlets, and worst off, TWO ROWS of premium economy. One row is an exit and the second is a bulkhead right behind first. The bulkhead is good for knees but horrible for stretching out as its a full floor to ceiling wall. Luckily, I primarily fly ORD to ATL or MCO, and avoid the LUS aircraft. But I would 100% switch to US or DL full-time if I had to travel on that thing weekly.
 
Etheereal
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:44 am

Re: AA's Summer From Hell

Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:34 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
This from AA's hometown newspaper.

From the looks of it, AA has become the UA from a few years ago...


All they're missing is beating up a passenger then dragging him/her out of the plane, to get the complete circle.

Congrats on UA for improving, and AA to manage sinking even lower
JetBuddy wrote:
"737 slides off the runway" is the new "Florida man"..

:lol:

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