chonetsao
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:35 pm

DWC wrote:
English speakers should learn another language, the world is way richer elsewhere ;)
I know this is anathema to monotongues, but this site, born in Europe be it said, fines members likewise should they use another language : posts just are not tolerated. Problem is that narrowing all discussions to one language does keep away many members from other countries ( see all the forums/blogs in German, Russian, French, Spanish ), and the sheer number of threads & the kind of discussion are heavily anglosaxon oriented - yaawn.
On a sidenote to hammer my point, I am always shocked at how US, Canadian, Oz citizens are not the least concerned about having done away with literally hundreds of "languages" by cultures they exterminated.
I am fluent in French by the way & would welcome some discussion in der Sprache Goethes.
I also think they are more Chinese, Japanese and other -nese avgeeks than all of us here combined.


French people should learn another universal language like English and not to get upset if no one else wants to speak French.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:36 pm

LaunchDetected wrote:
Dura Lex Sed Lex. The native english speakers will not understand this situation, but language must be defended.

Hear hear.

Since the beginning of time, the loss of one's language has always been equated with the loss of one's culture. Bill 101 and French language laws were enacted to protect just that. Honestly, I don't think anyone argues that Quebec has the right to run things the way they see fit. Nor, in the rest of Canada, the right of any Canadian to have Governmental issues offered in their choice of official language.

It is rare to find someone who only speaks French in Canada, but it doesn't just happen in Quebec. Travel through some regions of Manitoba and New Brunswick. Much like a lot of Canadians only speak English. Personally, I have never seen "confrontations" as a result, as normally we get by.

For the record and for those reading this thread from outside Canada, Google "Bill 101", it is an interesting document that not only covers the size and prominence of French words but also allows all business in Quebec to be conducted in French. When first enacted the catch phrase was "Bill 101 or the 401". (The 401 is the highway from Montreal to Toronto). Sadly .... many chose the 401.
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Strato2
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:55 pm

MareBorealis wrote:
Finland is officially bi lingual (Finnish/Swedish) and Finnair used to have a quite strict language policy. Fluent Finnish, Swedish and English were all required to become a cabin crew member. But that has changed, only English is required now. From Finnair's website: "Fluency in English is required, fluency in Finnish is highly valued and other language skills are considered an asset." On their flights to HKG and SIN you don't get service in Finnish/Swedish at all. I haven't heard much complaints but I wonder what would the French passengers say if they didn't get service in French on AF ;)



Add Barcelona and Madrid to the list. Also in many Helsinki restaurants they have staff that cannot speak Finnish. This is all bullshit when you cannot operate in your language in the capital of your own country. Air Canada fully deserves this crap.
 
yyztpa2
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:17 pm

I have nothing against supporting bilingual on Air Canada but these two look for lawsuits. It's not their first pass at this.

AC has to pay because the seat belt buckle says 'Lift' only and the emergency exit has larger font for English than French. The exit message was in both languages. If the buckle didn't have the English word, than perhaps there would have been no argument.

With the large number of Max groundings, this has implications to AC. Anytime they bring in an aircraft on lease due to similar occurrence, they need to check for this or review their passenger lists and be prepared to pay such frivolous costs.
 
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:31 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
The trials and tribulations of being a country with two official languages. Fair enough it is in the interest of preserving and ensuring the nations languages are properly represented to both groups of language speakers living in the same country. fair is fair but $20,000? Excessive .

Agreed. While AC should try to preserve the linguistic heritage, far too steep a penalty.

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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:39 pm

So the native Indians in Canada, are they so small that there is no push to also have their languages added to the official language list, or is there now legislation limiting Canada to only two official languages?
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:49 pm

There are multiple native languages and indeed not that many that speaks it.
 
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:02 pm

ual763 wrote:
...Some of the French ones pretend like to pretend that they don’t (speak English) but they do...


Sorry to hear that you had this regrettable situation. Those morons probably did not realise you were americans.

FWIW, I would say the other way around is more prevalent. In Montreal, a great deal of bilangual anglo quebecers just refuse to speak french - even when serving franco customers...
Last edited by ExMilitaryEng on Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:22 pm

Res French: read The Discovery of France. French in a way dates to Napoleon who first established which dialect would be "French", and it as perhaps as late as 1890 when the language was more or less unified. Quebec French by far precedes official French. I suspect there are French Quebec books on all of this, but the one I cite offers a smattering of history.
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sabby
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:22 pm

DWC wrote:
English speakers should learn another language, the world is way richer elsewhere ;)
I know this is anathema to monotongues, but this site, born in Europe be it said, fines members likewise should they use another language : posts just are not tolerated. Problem is that narrowing all discussions to one language does keep away many members from other countries ( see all the forums/blogs in German, Russian, French, Spanish ), and the sheer number of threads & the kind of discussion are heavily anglosaxon oriented - yaawn.
On a sidenote to hammer my point, I am always shocked at how US, Canadian, Oz citizens are not the least concerned about having done away with literally hundreds of "languages" by cultures they exterminated.
I am fluent in French by the way & would welcome some discussion in der Sprache Goethes.
I also think they are more Chinese, Japanese and other -nese avgeeks than all of us here combined.


I agree with you that Native English speakers should learn another language or two. However, allowing only English in this forum or many other international places is perfectly fine. Like in your example, let's say a Japanese, a Chinese, an Indian, a middle eastern, a German and an Italian gather to discuss aviation. Which language do you propose for this ? You can't expect all of them to speak and understand all of those languages! There are many blogs and websites catering to major languages around the world to discuss aviation (and almost anything else), no one is stopping you to go there and discuss, maybe even we would meet there and discuss aviation in another language ;) No one is claiming that English is special, it is just that practical as it has the most distinct number of countries speaking English as second/third/fourth language. For whatever its worth, English is my third language :)

Back on topic, I think Air Canada is rightly fined as they violated the law but those two people are just greedy scammers and the fine should go to the Government or any related fund.
 
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spinotter
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:55 pm

Vasu wrote:
Sounds like this couple will end up in court for something or other and will end up paying back the money anyway.

Sad that the system allows for such payouts for something where a simple apology would suffice. If I see a sign I don’t understand I just go on my phone and translate it. Or ask someone! I wouldn’t expect money if I didn’t understand a sign...


But a situation where you do not understand an announcement in your own country, speaking one of the official languages of your own country, should not arise. Canada has never really been bilingual except in Quebec, and that is too bad.
 
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:09 pm

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Before someone brings that one up, the couple are from Ontario, not from Québec...

They're Francophones that live in the Ottawa area, Quebec is right across the river. Interesting note that the judge in the case was also a Francophone.

Looking at the details of the case, the claims are all pretty frivolous and pedantic at best. The likely result is going to be an aircraft that is less safe. Warning signs and instructions are generally concise and as large as practicable. Requiring identical instructions or warnings of the same size in both languages is going to result in signs and instructions that aren't as easy to read in emergency situations. There are plenty of ways to protect the cultural heritage of a sizable minority that don't include absurdities like this.
 
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:15 pm

Not airline related but indeed language & Quebec related. At my previous job I had to deal with the Office québécois de la langue française (OQLF) when we were localizing & deploying our direct to consumer website for the Canadian francophone market (for a large travel & tourism US company). While I understand the need to preserve their cultural heritage, but, oh boy, they can certainly complicate things. And they did. Often and for petty stuff.

silentbob wrote:
The likely result is going to be an aircraft that is less safe. Warning signs and instructions are generally concise and as large as practicable. Requiring identical instructions or warnings of the same size in both languages is going to result in signs and instructions that aren't as easy to read in emergency situations. There are plenty of ways to protect the cultural heritage of a sizable minority that don't include absurdities like this.


Beg to differ. 80% of the world commercial aircraft carry signs & posted placards in two languages and there is zero evidence that those aircraft are less safe than one where the signs just read: "exit" as opposed to "exit/sortie" or "exit/salida". Furthermore, some US airlines have been displaying some cabin signs in both English & Spanish for some years now. Continental/United and Southwest are two I can think of right now.
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INFINITI329
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:42 pm

Why doesn't AC just challenge this law? It sounds like they would have the merit to at least be heard before a judge
 
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:47 pm

I did not realize that many in Quebec did not know English. I have been told before by Canadian colleagues that English was the primary language taught in schools throughout Canada and that French was a primary language at home in Quebec and also taught as a secondary language in Quebec in school. I just found it odd that they refused English, as they were restaurant workers. Surely, in a tourist heavy area such as Quebec City, the waitresses know enough English to take an order, considering they had an English menu?

As I said, I never had this problem in France itself. Over in Paris, if I encountered someone who didn’t know English, we were usually able to find a common ground in German and converse a little in it. But, Quebec City, the one bad experience I had, was just extremely rude. I even started off with Bonjour, merci, etc. But, oh well... I digress. I still think this fee is ridiculous, considering this ridiculously minor label.

What’s next, requiring Boeing to put French/English decals in every cockpit of an Air Canada aircrafts.
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musman9853
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:51 pm

wonder if a first nations member can sue AC for not using one of thier languages, considering those have been around in canada a lot longer than french has
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Seabear
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:56 pm

Sacré bleu!
 
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:08 pm

ual763 wrote:
I did not realize that many in Quebec did not know English. I have been told before by Canadian colleagues that English was the primary language taught in schools throughout Canada and that French was a primary language at home in Quebec and also taught as a secondary language in Quebec in school. .


Since 1974, French is the sole official language of Quebec. Services, instruction (education), labor relations and business and legislation and justice are all areas where French takes precedence.
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Skywatcher
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:18 pm

I wonder how much the lawyer that represented the couple charged in fees? It is possible that the couple actually lost money after paying the legal fees. I hope so. I live in Montreal and the language problems have largely disappeared. Most of the unilingual Anglos have long since moved away while remaining and younger Anglos have generally adapted. Younger Francos don't feel as threatened culturally as their elders did and are more open language wise. Outside Montreal is a whole different scenario. There are areas where you can live your whole life without hearing English on a daily basis. Historically people like that rarely travelled outside Quebec (the province still has the lowest air travel rates in Canada) but that is slowly changing as the older generation disappears and younger people are more worldly.
 
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:47 pm

dcajet wrote:
Beg to differ. 80% of the world commercial aircraft carry signs & posted placards in two languages and there is zero evidence that those aircraft are less safe than one where the signs just read: "exit" as opposed to "exit/sortie" or "exit/salida". Furthermore, some US airlines have been displaying some cabin signs in both English & Spanish for some years now. Continental/United and Southwest are two I can think of right now.

Every exit of every Canadian transport aircraft is marked EXIT/SORTIE.

What was argued was the prominence of the font and that the exits should be marked exit/SORTIE, making French more prominent.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
CRJ 900
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:54 pm

If this is the same couple with the 7-up case...they are completely bi-lingual.
 
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French languag0q

Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:55 pm

Remember that when AC acquired CP in 1999-2000, they had to teach many CP employees how to speak French. Thus, it is definitely not surprising that AC got in trouble for not using French when requested.

In terms of the linguistic situation in Canada, I heard that in Quebec, less than half of the population there know how to speak English, while in other parts of Canada, less than 10% of the population know how to speak French. Thus, it would definitely not be surprising to find people who can speak French but not English, especially in rural Quebec.
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longhauler
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French languag0q

Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:12 pm

747WanSui wrote:
Remember that when AC acquired CP in 1999-2000, they had to teach many CP employees how to speak French. Thus, it is definitely not surprising that AC got in trouble for not using French when requested.

They didn’t have to teach CP employees French, it was offered at no charge and during work hours.

The issue was the YVR base which was lacking (but not void) of bilingual F/As. As now CP flights had to have a French F/A as AC took over the operating certificate, it was hard to fulfill the requirement and F/As from other bases had to be moved in out of seniority. (YVR is a senior base).

Remember though, most of the component airlines of Canadian Airlines, CP, ND, PV, QB, WD had YUL bases with near 100% bilingual F/As, with very high levels at other bases with a lot of French passengers, like YWG, YYZ and YHZ. YVR and YYC were the anomalies.

As French was never an issue at western bases of CP, what did happen was mandatory language testing and evaluation to satisfy the requirement and see what was needed.

Incidentally, that continues today as levels are checked.
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:32 pm

Image
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:04 pm

silentbob wrote:
ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Before someone brings that one up, the couple are from Ontario, not from Québec...

They're Francophones that live in the Ottawa area, Quebec is right across the river. Interesting note that the judge in the case was also a Francophone.


While we do have our own fair share of morons in Quebec, franco Ontarians are very different from Québécois - even when living just a few km from Quebec.

They vote differently, they identify themself as Canadians (which is ok, dont get me wrong here :biggrin: ), they are massively opposed to Quebec's Bill 101 etc. They are the one that push for bilangualism in Canada - while Québécois not so much. Quebecois only wants the ability to live, work, prosper and have fun at home (QC) - in french.

So don't associate those franco Ontarians with Quebecois; we are two very different groups with different thinking paterns.

(I work in Ottawa with those francos...)
 
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:47 pm

The Province of New Brunswick is officially Bi-lingual with a large French speaking population......but they are Acadians. (same ancestry as Louisiana's Cajuns) Dieppe NB, a suburb of Moncton and the location of YQM is largely French speaking but nearly everyone is bi-lingual. Go into the Champlain Mall and listen how effortlessly people switch back and forth between English and French. There's also Acadian communities in Nova Scotia and PEI.
 
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:54 pm

It seems to be an bit in the extreme side requiring AC still to have everything in both languages, when others are not required.

Every Airline I’ve been on from countries that main language is not English, has pretty much gone with the default English signage from Airbus/Boeing.

It would almost like like every A320 being delivered with Sortie rather than Exit. Just because the aircraft is made in France.

English has largely become the accepted language of air travel.
 
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:03 pm

The only other national airline that officially has something similar is SN when it comes to the usage of langague (only crew, not sinage and literature onboard). They still hire flight attendants who either speak french or flemish. I bet some do speak german too as there is a portion of belgium which speaks german and SN has been basing some aircraft at DUS for EW too.
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:45 pm

ac7e7 wrote:
longhauler wrote:
Understand that only Air Canada operates under these restrictions. No other airline in Canada!

So ....... Westjet (for example) does not have to change the “lift” notation on seat belt buckles to bilingual.

Only in Canada.

Also understand this is the same couple that complained about not being able to order “7 Up” in French. (And won).


Professional gold diggers who should be banned from flying AC.


I guess they've taken Air Canada to court more than ONCE over this exact same issue. I think the only person getting rich here are the couple's lawyers.
xx
 
Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:36 am

longhauler wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Beg to differ. 80% of the world commercial aircraft carry signs & posted placards in two languages and there is zero evidence that those aircraft are less safe than one where the signs just read: "exit" as opposed to "exit/sortie" or "exit/salida". Furthermore, some US airlines have been displaying some cabin signs in both English & Spanish for some years now. Continental/United and Southwest are two I can think of right now.

Every exit of every Canadian transport aircraft is marked EXIT/SORTIE.

What was argued was the prominence of the font and that the exits should be marked exit/SORTIE, making French more prominent.


This case shows how new aircraft are often getting delivered with the running stick figure in order to avoid language confusion. The more universal symbols can be used the better.

blueflyer wrote:
longhauler wrote:
Also understand this is the same couple that complained about not being able to order “7 Up” in French. (And won).

Seriously?!? How do you order a 7 Up in Quebec? Even Parisians know they'd be ridiculed for trying to order a Sept Up! I may have to try next time I'm in Montreal just to see what happens...


Lufthansa wrote:
I agree in a bilingual country both languages must be considered, as it is in many other parts of the world.

Give Canada credit where it's due. I can think of several European regions with their own official language fighting tooth and nail through legislative and judicial means to pretend other official languages of their respective countries do not exist. They'll go so far as to deny you access to government services if you happen to make your request in an official language that is not the region's preferred.


steveinbc wrote:
But there's an official language act that essentially states that if you're a natural French speaker then you should have equal access to services in your language. Air Canada is part of that service as a legacy if its government ownership. The airline has greatly benefited from government largesses over decades and therefore I think this aspect is part and parcel of the advantages that the cost relationship provides Air Canada.

And all that is fair and proper, however in order to be awarded damages, they should prove actual damages... If the airline is to be fined for contravening a public law, the fine should go to the government's coffers, not private purses.


Dominion301 wrote:
France French has a lot of English loan words like parking and stop that aren’t used in Canadian French...which itself does have English loan words that largely differ from France.

Not to mention that the Quebec French can be at times so full of Americanism that reverting to English may be easier for someone who learned their French outside of Canada...


I find as a bilingual anglophone, the biggest difference is the accent, especially Parisian French. I own many France French movies on DVD. However, I often find myself having to put up the subtitles IN FRENCH, not English, as I have so much difficulty with the Parisian accent where to my untrained ear, everyone sounds like they’re mumbling and speaking incredibly fast.

Super80Fan wrote:
Oh Canada, sometimes you seem like the greatest nation on the planet, and at other times you seem like nothing but a puppet for France.


What??? But yes Canada is consistently ranked by the UN as one of the best nations on the planet (I believe we’re currently #2 behind the Swiss), many, many spots (and admittedly said with some smugness) ahead of the US.

par13del wrote:
So the native Indians in Canada, are they so small that there is no push to also have their languages added to the official language list, or is there now legislation limiting Canada to only two official languages?


Well as part of the the early days reconciliation, the Canadian government a few weeks ago passed the Indigenous Languages Act. There is a very urgent need to preserve/prevent the extinction of the majority of Canada’s 90 Indigenous languages after seven generations of attempted forced assimilation.

Just an FYI, the term “native Indian” is +30 years out of date in Canada. The original settlers of this country are our Indigenous peoples.

To bring this back to an airline conversation, many regional carriers in Canada do have recorded announcements in Indigenous languages (e.g., First Air and Inuktitut).
 
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:39 am

My friend was working the 7up flight in question. She is Anglophone They asked for 7up she brought them a Sprite. AC isn't a Pepsi airline. She understood and brought them the equivalent product that we offer. These two KNOW what AC has to offer, it wasn't their first time flying with the company. I had them onboard my flight out of YOW after the last time they played with Air Canada. There was a whole bunch of drama about there being a B/L onboard... so I spoke to them in BOTH languages....:) Nothing worse than having someone test you just because they are looking for shit to complain about.
 
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:03 am

Good thing. They are required by law to offer services in both languages and they haven't. So you pay when you don't play by the rules.
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:09 am

blueflyer wrote:
longhauler wrote:
Also understand this is the same couple that complained about not being able to order “7 Up” in French. (And won).

Seriously?!? How do you order a 7 Up in Quebec? Even Parisians know they'd be ridiculed for trying to order a Sept Up! I may have to try next time I'm in Montreal just to see what happens...


French people/France keeps being mentioned in this thread but this has nothing to do with us.

Using English words in France is very common, even encouraged in some business schools, to the point of ridicule (whole sentences with half the words in English...). In Québec on the other hand it's a big no no, so Québecers invent "French" words to replace them. Sometimes these words even make it to France, but rarely.

Now, what is true is that we have the Académie française : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A ... %C3%A7aise that is supposed to guard the French language, and each year adds a few words to it. But what people do with these recommendations is hit and miss.

We also have a law that all imported stuff has to have a user manual in French.
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:47 am

MareBorealis wrote:
I haven't heard much complaints but I wonder what would the French passengers say if they didn't get service in French on AF ;)


There are French and English announcements on KLM flights to Paris. Not that surprising really.
 
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:00 am

Dominion301 wrote:
longhauler wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Beg to differ. 80% of the world commercial aircraft carry signs & posted placards in two languages and there is zero evidence that those aircraft are less safe than one where the signs just read: "exit" as opposed to "exit/sortie" or "exit/salida". Furthermore, some US airlines have been displaying some cabin signs in both English & Spanish for some years now. Continental/United and Southwest are two I can think of right now.

Every exit of every Canadian transport aircraft is marked EXIT/SORTIE.

What was argued was the prominence of the font and that the exits should be marked exit/SORTIE, making French more prominent.


This case shows how new aircraft are often getting delivered with the running stick figure in order to avoid language confusion. The more universal symbols can be used the better.

blueflyer wrote:
longhauler wrote:
Also understand this is the same couple that complained about not being able to order “7 Up” in French. (And won).

Seriously?!? How do you order a 7 Up in Quebec? Even Parisians know they'd be ridiculed for trying to order a Sept Up! I may have to try next time I'm in Montreal just to see what happens...


Lufthansa wrote:
I agree in a bilingual country both languages must be considered, as it is in many other parts of the world.

Give Canada credit where it's due. I can think of several European regions with their own official language fighting tooth and nail through legislative and judicial means to pretend other official languages of their respective countries do not exist. They'll go so far as to deny you access to government services if you happen to make your request in an official language that is not the region's preferred.


steveinbc wrote:
But there's an official language act that essentially states that if you're a natural French speaker then you should have equal access to services in your language. Air Canada is part of that service as a legacy if its government ownership. The airline has greatly benefited from government largesses over decades and therefore I think this aspect is part and parcel of the advantages that the cost relationship provides Air Canada.

And all that is fair and proper, however in order to be awarded damages, they should prove actual damages... If the airline is to be fined for contravening a public law, the fine should go to the government's coffers, not private purses.


Dominion301 wrote:
France French has a lot of English loan words like parking and stop that aren’t used in Canadian French...which itself does have English loan words that largely differ from France.

Not to mention that the Quebec French can be at times so full of Americanism that reverting to English may be easier for someone who learned their French outside of Canada...


I find as a bilingual anglophone, the biggest difference is the accent, especially Parisian French. I own many France French movies on DVD. However, I often find myself having to put up the subtitles IN FRENCH, not English, as I have so much difficulty with the Parisian accent where to my untrained ear, everyone sounds like they’re mumbling and speaking incredibly fast.

Super80Fan wrote:
Oh Canada, sometimes you seem like the greatest nation on the planet, and at other times you seem like nothing but a puppet for France.


What??? But yes Canada is consistently ranked by the UN as one of the best nations on the planet (I believe we’re currently #2 behind the Swiss), many, many spots (and admittedly said with some smugness) ahead of the US.

par13del wrote:
So the native Indians in Canada, are they so small that there is no push to also have their languages added to the official language list, or is there now legislation limiting Canada to only two official languages?


Well as part of the the early days reconciliation, the Canadian government a few weeks ago passed the Indigenous Languages Act. There is a very urgent need to preserve/prevent the extinction of the majority of Canada’s 90 Indigenous languages after seven generations of attempted forced assimilation.

Just an FYI, the term “native Indian” is +30 years out of date in Canada. The original settlers of this country are our Indigenous peoples.

To bring this back to an airline conversation, many regional carriers in Canada do have recorded announcements in Indigenous languages (e.g., First Air and Inuktitut).


Canada is ahead when they don't bow down to France and the French. If you like the French so much, become France 2.0 and drop everything Canadian/Canada name.
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Antarius
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:04 am

Honestly, if someone has managed to fasten a seatbelt and only manages to unfasten it due to being able to read "lift", they probably shouldn't be flying. There is literally only one direction that the seatbelt piece can move, even a monkey will eventually get it right.

I guess AC now needs to get new seatbelt buckles without words or custom ones in both languages. The same suing people likely will also then bitch about high airfares as a result of needless expenditure.
Last edited by Antarius on Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI DEN
 
sabby
Posts: 340
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:13 am

longhauler wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Beg to differ. 80% of the world commercial aircraft carry signs & posted placards in two languages and there is zero evidence that those aircraft are less safe than one where the signs just read: "exit" as opposed to "exit/sortie" or "exit/salida". Furthermore, some US airlines have been displaying some cabin signs in both English & Spanish for some years now. Continental/United and Southwest are two I can think of right now.

Every exit of every Canadian transport aircraft is marked EXIT/SORTIE.

What was argued was the prominence of the font and that the exits should be marked exit/SORTIE, making French more prominent.


So basically a case of entitlement and trying hard to belittle other languages. How ironic!
 
thaiflyer
Posts: 335
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:01 am

So i suppose that all the information and decals in the aircraft is also bi language so the French speaking pilots, CC etc can fly the plane.
 
AMS18C36C
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:22 am

NLDru wrote:
The signs at Schiphol are only in English. KLM's safety video is also only spoken in English. Although the Dutch speak English very well, English is not their mother tongue.

By the way, it looks a bit like Brussels and Wallonia. In Brussels and Wallonia they speak mainly French, but they do not want or cannot speak Dutch. However, the Flemish speak Dutch and French.


I’ve noticed that too at KLM. The ‘welcome on board’ announcement will be in both Dutch and English, and they subsequently inform passengers that further announcements will be in English and explicitly mention that you can call the cabin crew if you have any questions. Any announcements made by the pilots will usually be in both Dutch and English. It’s slightly strange, as KLM is the Dutch flag carrier, but I’m not really bothered about it.

When it comes to Canada, I agree that the rules and regulations should apply to every airlines. WestJet operates to Quebec I assume, so why shouldn’t this apply to them as well?
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:08 pm

QB737 wrote:
Good thing. They are required by law to offer services in both languages and they haven't. So you pay when you don't play by the rules.


Can you explain what service was not offered in both languages on the flight in question?
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ghYHZ
Posts: 405
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:26 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
Canada is ahead when they don't bow down to France and the French. If you like the French so much, become France 2.0 and drop everything Canadian/Canada name.


You are so far out of touch, This has nothing to do with France!

That's like saying the US would bow down to England because they speak English
 
yyztpa2
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:29 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
QB737 wrote:
Good thing. They are required by law to offer services in both languages and they haven't. So you pay when you don't play by the rules.


Can you explain what service was not offered in both languages on the flight in question?


I've read that seat belt buckle only had word "Lift" and Emergency exit signs had "Exit" in larger font than "Sortie"

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/air- ... index.html
 
Antarius
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:29 pm

yyztpa2 wrote:
hOMSaR wrote:
QB737 wrote:
Good thing. They are required by law to offer services in both languages and they haven't. So you pay when you don't play by the rules.


Can you explain what service was not offered in both languages on the flight in question?


I've read that seat belt buckle only had word "Lift" and Emergency exit signs had "Exit" in larger font than "Sortie"

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/air- ... index.html


Every road sign in YYZ has EXIT larger than SORTIE. Sortie has 2 more letters, so to fit it in the same space, the longer word is smaller.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI DEN
 
max999
Posts: 1133
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:05 am

Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:40 pm

yyztpa2 wrote:
hOMSaR wrote:
QB737 wrote:
Good thing. They are required by law to offer services in both languages and they haven't. So you pay when you don't play by the rules.


Can you explain what service was not offered in both languages on the flight in question?


I've read that seat belt buckle only had word "Lift" and Emergency exit signs had "Exit" in larger font than "Sortie"

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/air- ... index.html


So does the judge's ruling mean that AC has to update every seat belt in their entire fleet?

Or does AC pay the fine and is not required to do anything else?
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:28 pm

ghYHZ wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Canada is ahead when they don't bow down to France and the French. If you like the French so much, become France 2.0 and drop everything Canadian/Canada name.


You are so far out of touch, This has nothing to do with France!

That's like saying the US would bow down to England because they speak English


The US bows down to Greenland/Denmark. :rotfl:

I haven’t the faintest clue as to what Super80Fan is alluding to.
 
multimark
Posts: 451
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:53 pm

Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:35 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
That poor poor airline. They broke the law and get fined. :sarcastic:

A lot of you posters, that bash every passenger for not following all the arcane fine print rules of the airlines, get overly exited when an airline is fined for breaking the law.

When the Canadian law says that Air Canada has to have a French speaking F/A on every flight, than A/F just simply has to do it. Pay F/A's, that speak several languages, considerable more and you will find enough multilingual employees and the problem will solve itself.


It is blatantly unfair to subject just one airline to this relic of a policy and not its competitors. If the government does not have the stones to apply the policy to Westjet, then it should abolish it altogether. Air Canada's days as crown corporation are decades in the past, time to move on.

As to this couple, they are obviously professional complainers (read up on their history). Air Canada should be able to ban them from future travel.
 
Aircellist
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Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:43 am

Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:42 pm

So many cringeworthy remarks in this thread… I'll only say this:
OK, AC can plead to be a victim of that absurd-and-unfair-law-to-which-Westjet-is-not-submitted, but then, ever wondered why AC, even with their sometimes ludicrously high fares, still holds the fort in YUL and all of Quebec, in fact, whereas WS has difficulty setting operations here? Could it just be because we, French natives (yes, I am one of those), feel a little bit more "at home" aboard one company than the other? Your call.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1195
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:44 am

Aesma wrote:
Using English words in France is very common, even encouraged in some business schools, to the point of ridicule (whole sentences with half the words in English...). In Québec on the other hand it's a big no no, so Québecers invent "French" words to replace them. Sometimes these words even make it to France, but rarely..


That seems to correlate with my own (albeit very limited) observations. When me and a friend were in Montreal for 2 nights a few years ago before the final MD-11 flight to AMS, we were talking about the use of French and were both observing how some words that in other non-English-speaking locations would be in English such as 'Stop' signs were translated into French. Another observation was Starbucks signage outside their stores reading as 'Cafe Starbucks', whereas in France I believe it's just 'Starbucks Coffee'.

I also admired how one person in a Hudson's Bay store started talking to a staff member in English before they both switched to French part-way through.

Each to their own with the use of the language I guess.
 
workhorse
Posts: 651
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:16 am

Why do we never hear about such incidents in Switzerland and on LX? They have FOUR official languages and yet somehow get around it.
 
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cirrusdragoon
Posts: 79
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Re: Air Canada fined for not using French language

Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:07 pm

workhorse wrote:
Why do we never hear about such incidents in Switzerland and on LX? They have FOUR official languages and yet somehow get around it.


exactly!

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