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jumbojet
Topic Author
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:25 pm

itripreport wrote:
As someone who flies both JetBlue and Delta often, sure JetBlue doesn't offer first class on many routes, but their free snacks, free wifi, free live tv, and great legroom makes up for it. Their mint routes, those cuts don't affect my will to keep flying them any more, since these are for the most part unnecessary cosmetic changes. Period, this is about JETBLUE, NOT DELTA


Thats right, this thread is about JetBlue cuts in service but some people cant help but compare them to the benchmark airline. Its also not about growth at BOS or CASM, PRASM etc.

About the WIFI, my son flew B6 the other day and complained that streaming was next to impossible. Unless your reading the news, the free WIFI is very limited in its application, so to say B6 has free WIFI, well, sure they do but not for streaming. Maybe they're also cutting back on the quality of the WIFI?
 
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TheLunchbox
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:17 pm

jumbojet wrote:
itripreport wrote:
As someone who flies both JetBlue and Delta often, sure JetBlue doesn't offer first class on many routes, but their free snacks, free wifi, free live tv, and great legroom makes up for it. Their mint routes, those cuts don't affect my will to keep flying them any more, since these are for the most part unnecessary cosmetic changes. Period, this is about JETBLUE, NOT DELTA


Thats right, this thread is about JetBlue cuts in service but some people cant help but compare them to the benchmark airline. Its also not about growth at BOS or CASM, PRASM etc.

About the WIFI, my son flew B6 the other day and complained that streaming was next to impossible. Unless your reading the news, the free WIFI is very limited in its application, so to say B6 has free WIFI, well, sure they do but not for streaming. Maybe they're also cutting back on the quality of the WIFI?


I stream Netflix on JetBlue frequently so maybe that aircraft had an issue.
 
flyby519
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:51 am

jumbojet wrote:
itripreport wrote:
As someone who flies both JetBlue and Delta often, sure JetBlue doesn't offer first class on many routes, but their free snacks, free wifi, free live tv, and great legroom makes up for it. Their mint routes, those cuts don't affect my will to keep flying them any more, since these are for the most part unnecessary cosmetic changes. Period, this is about JETBLUE, NOT DELTA


Thats right, this thread is about JetBlue cuts in service but some people cant help but compare them to the benchmark airline. Its also not about growth at BOS or CASM, PRASM etc.

About the WIFI, my son flew B6 the other day and complained that streaming was next to impossible. Unless your reading the news, the free WIFI is very limited in its application, so to say B6 has free WIFI, well, sure they do but not for streaming. Maybe they're also cutting back on the quality of the WIFI?


How’s Delta’s free WiFi? Ohh... how bout dem apples?
 
tphuang
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:54 am

jumbojet wrote:
itripreport wrote:
As someone who flies both JetBlue and Delta often, sure JetBlue doesn't offer first class on many routes, but their free snacks, free wifi, free live tv, and great legroom makes up for it. Their mint routes, those cuts don't affect my will to keep flying them any more, since these are for the most part unnecessary cosmetic changes. Period, this is about JETBLUE, NOT DELTA


Thats right, this thread is about JetBlue cuts in service but some people cant help but compare them to the benchmark airline. Its also not about growth at BOS or CASM, PRASM etc.

About the WIFI, my son flew B6 the other day and complained that streaming was next to impossible. Unless your reading the news, the free WIFI is very limited in its application, so to say B6 has free WIFI, well, sure they do but not for streaming. Maybe they're also cutting back on the quality of the WIFI?


Maybe he was flying on an older e90 and it had equipment issue? I never had any issue streaming on jetblue.

The newly configured phase 2 a320 and a321neo seems to be pretty nice. I think you will like it
 
IPFreely
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:05 am

jumbojet wrote:
About the WIFI, my son flew B6 the other day and complained that streaming was next to impossible.


Maybe 15 year old kids are not allowed to stream freely because of content and age issues.
 
catiii
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:28 am

CobaltScar wrote:
catiii wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

No one cleans anymore except the FAs, be they the working crew or the non revs. Also the FAs will never sign a contract that keeps them cleaning the planes, so those temp agencies in BOS might not want to let those extra cleaners go.


I’ve been on 30 flights in the last 4 months and all the nonrevs and cobus cleaned. If you’re on flights where they arent, you should turn them in.


I've never claimed to work for them. But how should they be turned in? Hold up boarding while names are collected for those who refused blue gloves? And turned into who? And I suppose this reporting should be done off the clock on the employees time? You think pilots are going to get their travel privileges revoked for not cleaning?

I'm glad all your non revs help clean, but that is not what I've heard. It all sounds like a complete mess. pun intended


Funny, you told me once you worked for JetBlue. Oh well.

Crewmembers lose their pass-riding for not helping with the turn. There’s a pretty clear process. It happens.
 
catiii
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:32 am

jumbojet wrote:
Thats right, this thread is about JetBlue cuts in service but some people cant help but compare them to the benchmark airline.


Which airline would that be?
 
catiii
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:33 am

TheLunchbox wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
itripreport wrote:
As someone who flies both JetBlue and Delta often, sure JetBlue doesn't offer first class on many routes, but their free snacks, free wifi, free live tv, and great legroom makes up for it. Their mint routes, those cuts don't affect my will to keep flying them any more, since these are for the most part unnecessary cosmetic changes. Period, this is about JETBLUE, NOT DELTA


Thats right, this thread is about JetBlue cuts in service but some people cant help but compare them to the benchmark airline. Its also not about growth at BOS or CASM, PRASM etc.

About the WIFI, my son flew B6 the other day and complained that streaming was next to impossible. Unless your reading the news, the free WIFI is very limited in its application, so to say B6 has free WIFI, well, sure they do but not for streaming. Maybe they're also cutting back on the quality of the WIFI?


I stream Netflix on JetBlue frequently so maybe that aircraft had an issue.


Let’s look up his tail # and see what the WiFi speeds were that day. Which flight on what date?
Last edited by catiii on Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
catiii
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:45 am

It just dawned on me, we’re basing this all on an unconfirmed uncorroborated blog posting from Seth Miller??

Never mind. If he’s reporting it I’m sure it’s true because, you know, he’s been so right on so many things in the past.
 
jumbojet
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:53 am

catiii wrote:
TheLunchbox wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

Thats right, this thread is about JetBlue cuts in service but some people cant help but compare them to the benchmark airline. Its also not about growth at BOS or CASM, PRASM etc.

About the WIFI, my son flew B6 the other day and complained that streaming was next to impossible. Unless your reading the news, the free WIFI is very limited in its application, so to say B6 has free WIFI, well, sure they do but not for streaming. Maybe they're also cutting back on the quality of the WIFI?


I stream Netflix on JetBlue frequently so maybe that aircraft had an issue.


Let’s look up his tail # and see what the WiFi speeds were that day. Which flight on what date?


if it matters that much to you, 1262, Saturday night,
 
IPFreely
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:19 am

flyby519 wrote:
How’s Delta’s free WiFi? Ohh... how bout dem apples?


Delta announced free wifi over a year ago:

https://skift.com/2018/09/28/delta-ceo- ... is-coming/
 
CobaltScar
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:16 am

catiii wrote:
Funny, you told me once you worked for JetBlue. Oh well.


I promise you I never said that.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:21 am

catiii wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
catiii wrote:

I’ve been on 30 flights in the last 4 months and all the nonrevs and cobus cleaned. If you’re on flights where they arent, you should turn them in.


I've never claimed to work for them. But how should they be turned in? Hold up boarding while names are collected for those who refused blue gloves? And turned into who? And I suppose this reporting should be done off the clock on the employees time? You think pilots are going to get their travel privileges revoked for not cleaning?

I'm glad all your non revs help clean, but that is not what I've heard. It all sounds like a complete mess. pun intended


Funny, you told me once you worked for JetBlue. Oh well.

Crewmembers lose their pass-riding for not helping with the turn. There’s a pretty clear process. It happens.


Shows what terrible management they have, even the ULCC's and regionals don't make their NRSA's or pass riders clean. All it will take is one person touching the wrong item for the FAA/OSHA to get involved and a pretty nice lawsuit for them too.

The only airline I know of where NRSA's regularly help clean the cabin is on WN, but that is also because WN employees like working for the company and enjoy helping out their fellow crew.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
jumbojet
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:35 pm

IPFreely wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
How’s Delta’s free WiFi? Ohh... how bout dem apples?


Delta announced free wifi over a year ago:

https://skift.com/2018/09/28/delta-ceo- ... is-coming/


You do realize that DL has close to 1000 planes in their fleet and thats main line only. Plus, DL planes are much larger than B6's planes. Its not quite so simple when you have a fleet the size and scope of DL. Last time I checked B6 only has 250 planes, and nothing bigger than a breadbox (A321). Completely different set of logistics.
 
Bluewho
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:31 pm

catiii wrote:
It just dawned on me, we’re basing this all on an unconfirmed uncorroborated blog posting from Seth Miller??

Never mind. If he’s reporting it I’m sure it’s true because, you know, he’s been so right on so many things in the past.



I have been saying that over and over.
 
Bluewho
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:34 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
catiii wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

I've never claimed to work for them. But how should they be turned in? Hold up boarding while names are collected for those who refused blue gloves? And turned into who? And I suppose this reporting should be done off the clock on the employees time? You think pilots are going to get their travel privileges revoked for not cleaning?

I'm glad all your non revs help clean, but that is not what I've heard. It all sounds like a complete mess. pun intended


Funny, you told me once you worked for JetBlue. Oh well.

Crewmembers lose their pass-riding for not helping with the turn. There’s a pretty clear process. It happens.


Shows what terrible management they have, even the ULCC's and regionals don't make their NRSA's or pass riders clean. All it will take is one person touching the wrong item for the FAA/OSHA to get involved and a pretty nice lawsuit for them too.

The only airline I know of where NRSA's regularly help clean the cabin is on WN, but that is also because WN employees like working for the company and enjoy helping out their fellow crew.



So it’s fine for SWA but not JetBlue?
It’s been this way since the beginning so I guess those lawsuits are due soon.
 
Bluewho
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:38 pm

jumbojet wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
How’s Delta’s free WiFi? Ohh... how bout dem apples?


Delta announced free wifi over a year ago:

https://skift.com/2018/09/28/delta-ceo- ... is-coming/


You do realize that DL has close to 1000 planes in their fleet and thats main line only. Plus, DL planes are much larger than B6's planes. Its not quite so simple when you have a fleet the size and scope of DL. Last time I checked B6 only has 250 planes, and nothing bigger than a breadbox (A321). Completely different set of logistics.



Man you have a very interesting thought process.
I’m sorry your son couldn’t “stream” Netflix. But our internet is pretty darn good does it have spots yes. It seems like airliners.net people love to point out every issue at JetBlue.

If Delta is the benchmark and so amazing why do you bother with JetBlue threads.

Again this is all based on a BLOG not POLICY.

Some call it fake news.

To the point where this thread should be closed because this is not confirmed news.
 
trueblew
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:00 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
catiii wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

I've never claimed to work for them. But how should they be turned in? Hold up boarding while names are collected for those who refused blue gloves? And turned into who? And I suppose this reporting should be done off the clock on the employees time? You think pilots are going to get their travel privileges revoked for not cleaning?

I'm glad all your non revs help clean, but that is not what I've heard. It all sounds like a complete mess. pun intended


Funny, you told me once you worked for JetBlue. Oh well.

Crewmembers lose their pass-riding for not helping with the turn. There’s a pretty clear process. It happens.


Shows what terrible management they have, even the ULCC's and regionals don't make their NRSA's or pass riders clean.


Indeed they do have terrible management. It's a shame. The most curious aspect is the number of employees that work there that buy into their management's deception. Very odd and unfortunate.
 
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SQ22
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:34 pm

Please stay on topic and do not turn this into a DL thread, thanks.
 
PotatoPappas
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:42 pm

Delta777Jet wrote:
Probably still better than flying AA !


flying transcon id disagree!
 
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VS4ever
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:52 pm

B6’s internet for the most part is just fine unless you are flying off the coasts, when it is running it’s already free. The other airline who shall not be named so we can keep this on topic charged me $20 for 2 legs and the service was totally and utterly unusable for the whole time.
While I respect that ALL airlines have issues including B6, the mountain made out of this molehill is frankly ridiculous and is going to affect virtually no one unless they are 0.01% of pax specifically looking for those items, in which case, go and enjoy your crappy internet elsewhere. This constant minor change, the sky is falling crap is getting old. Again not saying B6 is perfect, far from it, even as a fan, but come guys, get a freaking grip
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
tphuang
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:57 pm

I have to stick up for jumbojet a little bit. He obviously has his airline preferences, but it's not a great look for JetBlue employees to be attacking a prospective client. I have no reason to believe that he or his son has not flown on B6.

trueblew wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
catiii wrote:

Funny, you told me once you worked for JetBlue. Oh well.

Crewmembers lose their pass-riding for not helping with the turn. There’s a pretty clear process. It happens.


Shows what terrible management they have, even the ULCC's and regionals don't make their NRSA's or pass riders clean.


Not sure who you work for, but your bias toward certain airlines is a little too obvious at this point.

Indeed they do have terrible management. It's a shame. The most curious aspect is the number of employees that work there that buy into their management's deception. Very odd and unfortunate.


It's actually a great thing for employees to find pride, joy and inspiration at work. Or if you are not happy with your work and can't leave for some reason, it's generally a good idea to make the best of your situation rather than constantly complaining about it. That's much to be pitied.
 
travelsonic
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:59 pm

airlineworker wrote:
The cattle car mentality has been with us for years. Passengers vote with their wallets and all the majors are about the same


IMO, there is only so far one can go when shifting it on the passenger makes sense.

It's like anything, there are many contributing factors (some passenger-side, some management, some both) - shifting ALL of it on the passengers (especially when one hasn't put forth actual proof of this always being the case) is idiotic, IMO.
 
Bluewho
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:59 pm

tphuang wrote:
I have to stick up for jumbojet a little bit. He obviously has his airline preferences, but it's not a great look for JetBlue employees to be attacking a prospective client. I have no reason to believe that he or his son has not flown on B6.

trueblew wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:

Shows what terrible management they have, even the ULCC's and regionals don't make their NRSA's or pass riders clean.


Not sure who you work for, but your bias toward certain airlines is a little too obvious at this point.

Indeed they do have terrible management. It's a shame. The most curious aspect is the number of employees that work there that buy into their management's deception. Very odd and unfortunate.


It's actually a great thing for employees to find pride, joy and inspiration at work. Or if you are not happy with your work and can't leave for some reason, it's generally a good idea to make the best of your situation rather than constantly complaining about it. That's much to be pitied.



It’s not attacking when one is dealing with facts and the other theory. Anyway to the point it’s September second and I still don’t have an email about cleaning changes.....huh
 
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madpropsyo
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:00 pm

IPFreely wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
How’s Delta’s free WiFi? Ohh... how bout dem apples?


Delta announced free wifi over a year ago:

https://skift.com/2018/09/28/delta-ceo- ... is-coming/



Unless I’m missing something that article basically says that DL announced they would think about how to do free WiFi at some undefined point in the future. That is not in any way a launch of free WiFi or even a timeline for it.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:07 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
The only airline I know of where NRSA's regularly help clean the cabin is on WN, but that is also because WN employees like working for the company and enjoy helping out their fellow crew.


QX used to ask that, if on a pass, you cross your seatbelt and gather any trash in the seat. I've always crossed my seatbelt when I leave regardless of the airline I fly or whether I'm full-fare or on a pass...it's just a courtesy for the ride.
 
LAXBUR
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:01 pm

Just a note that Forbes picked this up. Came across my news feed:

https://apple.news/AJkT5iso7Q3-GDsW3FBbCHw
 
Bluewho
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:03 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
Just a note that Forbes picked this up. Came across my news feed:

https://apple.news/AJkT5iso7Q3-GDsW3FBbCHw



And this is how the news works these days which is scary.

Someone wrote a blog and then news rooms pick up on said blog and turn it into news when much of it isn’t even true. Simply amazing and sad.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:34 pm

Bluewho wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
Just a note that Forbes picked this up. Came across my news feed:

https://apple.news/AJkT5iso7Q3-GDsW3FBbCHw



And this is how the news works these days which is scary.

Someone wrote a blog and then news rooms pick up on said blog and turn it into news when much of it isn’t even true. Simply amazing and sad.


Are you saying the changes mentioned in the article might not be true? I thought we were passed that point in this discussion.
 
tphuang
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:46 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
Bluewho wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
Just a note that Forbes picked this up. Came across my news feed:

https://apple.news/AJkT5iso7Q3-GDsW3FBbCHw



And this is how the news works these days which is scary.

Someone wrote a blog and then news rooms pick up on said blog and turn it into news when much of it isn’t even true. Simply amazing and sad.


Are you saying the changes mentioned in the article might not be true? I thought we were passed that point in this discussion.


considering the paxex article says this was a July trial. There is no evidence to say this has been adopted or is going wide. I can't see B6 letting something like this affect their BOS operation considering how much they've invested in Boston.
 
Bluewho
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:09 am

CobaltScar wrote:
Bluewho wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
Just a note that Forbes picked this up. Came across my news feed:

https://apple.news/AJkT5iso7Q3-GDsW3FBbCHw



And this is how the news works these days which is scary.

Someone wrote a blog and then news rooms pick up on said blog and turn it into news when much of it isn’t even true. Simply amazing and sad.


Are you saying the changes mentioned in the article might not be true? I thought we were passed that point in this discussion.



Well I’m not sure about Mint as most likely only mint qualified FAs would get that info or maybe the other inflight. But as far as cleaning from the pilot side I don’t have an email and I have yet to see just 1 cleaner so as of now it’s not policy.

Pepsi is obviously true. It is also true that JetBlue is obsessed with meeting their EPS forecast for 2020.
So all of this could be on the table but it’s not what is happening right now.

Being honest I wouldn’t put it past this management team as they take crew members and customers for granted but we shall see. If they do it’s another short sighted dumb idea.
 
questions
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:33 am

itripreport wrote:
As someone who flies both JetBlue and Delta often, sure JetBlue doesn't offer first class on many routes, but their free snacks, free wifi, free live tv, and great legroom makes up for it. Their mint routes, those cuts don't affect my will to keep flying them any more, since these are for the most part unnecessary cosmetic changes. Period, this is about JETBLUE, NOT DELTA


“great legroom”

I have only flown in Mint. Does B6 still offer great legroom in standard economy? Pitch used to be 34” which was a product differentiator. However, I thought B6 economy was now “competitive” with WN at 32” while the US3 moved to 31”.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:21 am

questions wrote:

“great legroom”

I have only flown in Mint. Does B6 still offer great legroom in standard economy? Pitch used to be 34” which was a product differentiator. However, I thought B6 economy was now “competitive” with WN at 32” while the US3 moved to 31”.



I think it's actually been covered before, but the change from 34 to 33 inches -still an industry lead- has not lead to a reduction in actual leg space, as the seat backs have been redesigned to accommodate.

For general reference, I'm over 6ft tall. I have no problem laying a cigarette longitude-wise between my kneecap and the seat back when seated in a normal position on one of the new Core 320s. While the old interior was certainly not lacking for space, that wouldn't have been technically possible there.

As an aside, I've noticed this is also roughly true on a lot of AS' 739s. Though they're not famous for it for some reason.

By way of comparison, most of the US3's domestic mainline product is centered around a pitch of 30 inches, but an effective legroom closer to 28-29.

What both DL & AA feature in their basic economies are actually inferior in that regard to NK & G4, though very slightly better than F9.

If "great legroom" is being listed as a net positive for B6, I'd say, yeah, that claim is on some pretty solid ground.

11C wrote:

Wow, I know plenty of people, family, too, who have had enjoyable flights on Delta. But, “bare bones, running out of snacks, drinks, filthy planes” and your claim of no live streaming on Jetblue? You read like the NY Post, all drama, no substance. Can you grind your axe on some other more suitable forum, maybe National Enquirer?


At a certain point, I can't even believe this guy is wrong as much just making this stuff up as he goes. Literally everything he's said so far has been wildly inaccurate. Likely on purpose.
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
usflyguy
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:35 am

WN is moving terminals at BOS and going from 5 gates to 7...

STT757 wrote:
BMWdrvr75 wrote:
Sounds like Blue is getting ready for their merger with Southwest....The only thing they need to do now is dump the carts and bring back tray service...


I know you were probably joking. But I was wondering if WN's recent moves of cutting EWR and the recent BOS cuts wasn't meant to remove overlap where regulators might raise concerns during a merger.

I don't think WN cares about the mixed fleet issue anymore.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
dtremit
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:20 pm

tphuang wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
considering the paxex article says this was a July trial. There is no evidence to say this has been adopted or is going wide. I can't see B6 letting something like this affect their BOS operation considering how much they've invested in Boston.


It seems to me that the cleaning and snack catering reduction, specifically, could have been a trial to reduce turn times, rather than just to reduce cost (though I'm sure they don't mind that). B6 has been trying to reduce BOS delays -- a lot of which start with a single delayed segment for an aircraft, and multiply with every subsequent turn. With BOS being so gate constrained, a plane showing up at the gate at the wrong time seems wreak havoc. It seems like it would at least be worth testing whether having fewer people touch the planes on those turns would meaningfully reduce turn timings.
 
umichman
Posts: 150
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:29 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
questions wrote:

“great legroom”

I have only flown in Mint. Does B6 still offer great legroom in standard economy? Pitch used to be 34” which was a product differentiator. However, I thought B6 economy was now “competitive” with WN at 32” while the US3 moved to 31”.



I think it's actually been covered before, but the change from 34 to 33 inches -still an industry lead- has not lead to a reduction in actual leg space, as the seat backs have been redesigned to accommodate.

For general reference, I'm over 6ft tall. I have no problem laying a cigarette longitude-wise between my kneecap and the seat back when seated in a normal position on one of the new Core 320s. While the old interior was certainly not lacking for space, that wouldn't have been technically possible there.

As an aside, I've noticed this is also roughly true on a lot of AS' 739s. Though they're not famous for it for some reason.

By way of comparison, most of the US3's domestic mainline product is centered around a pitch of 30 inches, but an effective legroom closer to 28-29.

What both DL & AA feature in their basic economies are actually inferior in that regard to NK & G4, though very slightly better than F9.

If "great legroom" is being listed as a net positive for B6, I'd say, yeah, that claim is on some pretty solid ground.

11C wrote:

Wow, I know plenty of people, family, too, who have had enjoyable flights on Delta. But, “bare bones, running out of snacks, drinks, filthy planes” and your claim of no live streaming on Jetblue? You read like the NY Post, all drama, no substance. Can you grind your axe on some other more suitable forum, maybe National Enquirer?


At a certain point, I can't even believe this guy is wrong as much just making this stuff up as he goes. Literally everything he's said so far has been wildly inaccurate. Likely on purpose.



Basic Economy is not a separate cabin. The seats are just assigned from Main Cabin. Been on NK and normally fly DL. DL nominal seat pitch in coach is 31" and the difference between NK and DL is night and day.
 
richierich
Moderator
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:58 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
No more Grey Goose and Bulliet Bourbon, to be replaced by Tito's and Jack (huge downgrade)


What a joke! This is a huge downgrade??? Tito's is only the most popular vodka in the USA right now and Grey Goose is garbage. It used celebrities to endorse their products to come across as a premium vodka, but that didn't last long.

As for the difference between Bulliet and Jack - yeah, nobody is going to lose sleep over that. But keep pushing your "huge downgrade" agenda :rotfl:


That's all jumbojet ever does. It's quite comical, actually.
If DL did these 'huge downgrades', he would be on here defending it as somehow DL taking the initiative to save money without most passengers ever noticing. It would certainly be spun into a good thing. Talk about blowing things out of proportion; jumbojet has no clue if things are actually good or bad at 'Blue' and his constant 'the sky is falling' POV means he is hardly a trusted source.

To be fair, the lack of the second cleaner is the one that most concerns me. Next time I fly through BOS on B6, which I do a few times a year, I will be sure to look and see if the aircraft is noticeably dirtier. Even with that, is any of this worthy of a thread on a.net? Just another lame excuse for jumbo to create a Blue-bashing editorial.
None shall pass!!!!
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:46 pm

umichman wrote:


Basic Economy is not a separate cabin. The seats are just assigned from Main Cabin.



Sure. But very likely nobody cares, since nobody said otherwise?

If you were to steer back to the context, you'd see we were discussing whether B6 maintains a competitive advantage here -they do-, not DL's 30" -effective 28- of domestic pitch or where they drop their econ fare buckets.

The only reason to mention ULCCs was to point out that there's not a competitive or substantive difference between them and legacy offerings, which is also true.

If you choose to believe otherwise... fine? Not really my problem. Or relevant to the particulars at large here.


richierich wrote:

That's all jumbojet ever does. It's quite comical, actually.
If DL did these 'huge downgrades', he would be on here defending it as somehow DL taking the initiative to save money without most passengers ever noticing. It would certainly be spun into a good thing. Talk about blowing things out of proportion; jumbojet has no clue if things are actually good or bad at 'Blue' and his constant 'the sky is falling' POV means he is hardly a trusted source.


I don't want to pile on the guy; this thread is already doing an (admittedly well deserved) excellent job of that. But I do have to admit that I cannot recall seeing that name attached to something that wasn't exactly what you are describing.

richierich wrote:
To be fair, the lack of the second cleaner is the one that most concerns me. Next time I fly through BOS on B6, which I do a few times a year, I will be sure to look and see if the aircraft is noticeably dirtier. Even with that, is any of this worthy of a thread on a.net? Just another lame excuse for jumbo to create a Blue-bashing editorial.


I wouldn't be happy to see that service reduction either, though I also agree that the basis of the claim is thinner than Calista Flockhart after a three hundred ninety seven mile trek through the Steppe.

One of the problems I do see with B6 these days is a mgmt team that is not afraid to trade in the good will of some of the hardest working folks in the industry. If they don't change course on that, things won't end well, and certainly not profitably either.

The fact that people don't really mind pitching in to help out with these things is somewhat rare here, but steeply ingrained in their work culture. The last thing that should happen is to make that more difficult and time consuming.

As I said, I haven't seen anything to substantiate the rumors here, but a short sighed decision wouldn't entirely shock me either. Especially if it's being made by people counting on the good will of B6's professional classes. Let's hope that's not the case...
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
Bluewho
Posts: 168
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:30 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
umichman wrote:


Basic Economy is not a separate cabin. The seats are just assigned from Main Cabin.



Sure. But very likely nobody cares, since nobody said otherwise?

If you were to steer back to the context, you'd see we were discussing whether B6 maintains a competitive advantage here -they do-, not DL's 30" -effective 28- of domestic pitch or where they drop their econ fare buckets.

The only reason to mention ULCCs was to point out that there's not a competitive or substantive difference between them and legacy offerings, which is also true.

If you choose to believe otherwise... fine? Not really my problem. Or relevant to the particulars at large here.


richierich wrote:

That's all jumbojet ever does. It's quite comical, actually.
If DL did these 'huge downgrades', he would be on here defending it as somehow DL taking the initiative to save money without most passengers ever noticing. It would certainly be spun into a good thing. Talk about blowing things out of proportion; jumbojet has no clue if things are actually good or bad at 'Blue' and his constant 'the sky is falling' POV means he is hardly a trusted source.


I don't want to pile on the guy; this thread is already doing an (admittedly well deserved) excellent job of that. But I do have to admit that I cannot recall seeing that name attached to something that wasn't exactly what you are describing.

richierich wrote:
To be fair, the lack of the second cleaner is the one that most concerns me. Next time I fly through BOS on B6, which I do a few times a year, I will be sure to look and see if the aircraft is noticeably dirtier. Even with that, is any of this worthy of a thread on a.net? Just another lame excuse for jumbo to create a Blue-bashing editorial.


I wouldn't be happy to see that service reduction either, though I also agree that the basis of the claim is thinner than Calista Flockhart after a three hundred ninety seven mile trek through the Steppe.

One of the problems I do see with B6 these days is a mgmt team that is not afraid to trade in the good will of some of the hardest working folks in the industry. If they don't change course on that, things won't end well, and certainly not profitably either.

The fact that people don't really mind pitching in to help out with these things is somewhat rare here, but steeply ingrained in their work culture. The last thing that should happen is to make that more difficult and time consuming.

As I said, I haven't seen anything to substantiate the rumors here, but a short sighed decision wouldn't entirely shock me either. Especially if it's being made by people counting on the good will of B6's professional classes. Let's hope that's not the case...




This is totally correct. They just think the goodwill will always remain. But I think we are heading to a point where that won’t be the case.

My favorite was the CFO saying hey we made a bunch of money but not enough for profit sharing you still have 6 months so keep trying.

It’s just amazing to watch the disconnect.
 
questions
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:59 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
questions wrote:

“great legroom”

I have only flown in Mint. Does B6 still offer great legroom in standard economy? Pitch used to be 34” which was a product differentiator. However, I thought B6 economy was now “competitive” with WN at 32” while the US3 moved to 31”.



I think it's actually been covered before, but the change from 34 to 33 inches -still an industry lead- has not lead to a reduction in actual leg space, as the seat backs have been redesigned to accommodate.

For general reference, I'm over 6ft tall. I have no problem laying a cigarette longitude-wise between my kneecap and the seat back when seated in a normal position on one of the new Core 320s. While the old interior was certainly not lacking for space, that wouldn't have been technically possible there.

As an aside, I've noticed this is also roughly true on a lot of AS' 739s. Though they're not famous for it for some reason.

By way of comparison, most of the US3's domestic mainline product is centered around a pitch of 30 inches, but an effective legroom closer to 28-29.

What both DL & AA feature in their basic economies are actually inferior in that regard to NK & G4, though very slightly better than F9.

If "great legroom" is being listed as a net positive for B6, I'd say, yeah, that claim is on some pretty solid ground.

11C wrote:

Wow, I know plenty of people, family, too, who have had enjoyable flights on Delta. But, “bare bones, running out of snacks, drinks, filthy planes” and your claim of no live streaming on Jetblue? You read like the NY Post, all drama, no substance. Can you grind your axe on some other more suitable forum, maybe National Enquirer?


At a certain point, I can't even believe this guy is wrong as much just making this stuff up as he goes. Literally everything he's said so far has been wildly inaccurate. Likely on purpose.



Thanks.
 
questions
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:15 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
One of the problems I do see with B6 these days is a mgmt team that is not afraid to trade in the good will of some of the hardest working folks in the industry. If they don't change course on that, things won't end well, and certainly not profitably either.

The fact that people don't really mind pitching in to help out with these things is somewhat rare here, but steeply ingrained in their work culture. The last thing that should happen is to make that more difficult and time consuming.

As I said, I haven't seen anything to substantiate the rumors here, but a short sighed decision wouldn't entirely shock me either. Especially if it's being made by people counting on the good will of B6's professional classes. Let's hope that's not the case...


Can you explain this a little further for clarification? Is it correct that you are saying that a lot of folks at B6 pitch in to help each other? That it’s part of the work culture? Management may be looking to take advantage of that? If so, what are a couple of examples?

What are the “professional classes”?

Just trying to understand your point of view. Thanks.
 
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usdcaguy
Posts: 1549
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:30 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
EK77WNH wrote:
I’m surprised B6 doesn’t run an advertisement saying “All we fly are mainline jets.” The more RJs DL throws at BOS, the more that difference stands out.


Because with the 2x2 config of the 190s, no one will be able to tell the difference between that and a CRJ-200.


Huge difference in terms of cabin height and seat comfort. The E190s also have bigger bins. Even KL flies them, and I find them to be just fine and definitely better than the Fokkers.
 
questions
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Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:36 pm

Bluewho wrote:
My favorite was the CFO saying hey we made a bunch of money but not enough for profit sharing you still have 6 months so keep trying.

It’s just amazing to watch the disconnect.


And did the CFO present the slide that shows the C-Suite’s salary, annual bonus and long term incentives awarded for the same period? Probably not.

Read the proxy statements. It’s always interesting to see the messaging disconnects between what employees are told and how the C-Suite and BOD tell the story in the company’s filings AND the disconnect and lack of correlation in compensation decisions among those groups (employees, C-Suite and BOD). This is the heartbeat of income inequality in the US. And it replicates itself across every publicly traded company in the US.

Aviation history is filled with examples of workforces not engaged in doing their jobs above the bare minimum to serve their customers because management teams have been unable to connect with them. B6 was known for having an outstanding Economy product. As the executive team plays around with the product to chase revenue opportunities and cost savings, they need to double down on keeping the workforce engaged in everything they do every day. Move the product towards the industry “standard” and screw with the workforce, B6 will be just another example.

(And yes, I get how chasing revenue, going after cost savings and keeping a workforce engaged are extremely challenging... but that’s why total compensation in the C-Suite is in the millions per person.)
 
richierich
Moderator
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:37 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
EK77WNH wrote:
I’m surprised B6 doesn’t run an advertisement saying “All we fly are mainline jets.” The more RJs DL throws at BOS, the more that difference stands out.


Because with the 2x2 config of the 190s, no one will be able to tell the difference between that and a CRJ-200.


Huge difference in terms of cabin height and seat comfort. The E190s also have bigger bins. Even KL flies them, and I find them to be just fine and definitely better than the Fokkers.


This is not even a discussion, is it? The CRJs (all of them, but especially the -200s) are cramped and uncomfortable compared to any of the E-170s or E-190s series. It's not even close.
Never mind the IFE, B6's E190s may be old and starting show some age here and there, but I'd take their seat comfort over a regional CRJ-200 ANY DAY. To be honest, I find them more comfortable than most carrier's B737s and A320s!
None shall pass!!!!
 
questions
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:43 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
EK77WNH wrote:
I’m surprised B6 doesn’t run an advertisement saying “All we fly are mainline jets.” The more RJs DL throws at BOS, the more that difference stands out.


Because with the 2x2 config of the 190s, no one will be able to tell the difference between that and a CRJ-200.


Huge difference in terms of cabin height and seat comfort. The E190s also have bigger bins. Even KL flies them, and I find them to be just fine and definitely better than the Fokkers.


Agree, big difference.

Is DL’s use of CRJ’s at BOS for build-up purposes? Said another way, instead of using an A220 or A320 on a new market serving BOS, flooding the market with cheap seats and losing money, DL is using the most profitable aircraft for the market. Is/as the market grows, DL deploys a larger aircraft. Is that the strategy?

Or... is DL chasing small markets out of BOS that will probably never need a larger aircraft?
 
tphuang
Posts: 5473
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:44 pm

questions wrote:
Bluewho wrote:
My favorite was the CFO saying hey we made a bunch of money but not enough for profit sharing you still have 6 months so keep trying.

It’s just amazing to watch the disconnect.


And did the CFO present the slide that shows the C-Suite’s salary, annual bonus and long term incentives awarded for the same period? Probably not.

Read the proxy statements. It’s always interesting to see the messaging disconnects between what employees are told and how the C-Suite and BOD tell the story in the company’s filings AND the disconnect and lack of correlation in compensation decisions among those groups (employees, C-Suite and BOD). This is the heartbeat of income inequality in the US. And it replicates itself across every publicly traded company in the US.

Aviation history is filled with examples of workforces not engaged in doing their jobs above the bare minimum to serve their customers because management teams have been unable to connect with them. B6 was known for having an outstanding Economy product. As the executive team plays around with the product to chase revenue opportunities and cost savings, they need to double down on keeping the workforce engaged in everything they do every day. Move the product towards the industry “standard” and screw with the workforce, B6 will be just another example.

(And yes, I get how chasing revenue, going after cost savings and keeping a workforce engaged are extremely challenging... but that’s why total compensation in the C-Suite is in the millions per person.)


The industry standard is packing in more people with each new aircraft. Have you seen how many people AA/DL pack into their A321s while having a FC cabin?

Having seen the pictures from A321NEO and A320 phase 2 reconfig, it's pretty hard to argue that they are moving toward industry "standard". With A220-300 becoming a big part of their fleet going forward, they will have industry leading product for a long time.

questions wrote:
Is DL’s use of CRJ’s at BOS for build-up purposes? Said another way, instead of using an A220 or A320 on a new market serving BOS, flooding the market with cheap seats and losing money, DL is using the most profitable aircraft for the market. Is/as the market grows, DL deploys a larger aircraft. Is that the strategy?

Or... is DL chasing small markets out of BOS that will probably never need a larger aircraft?


DL uses most likely RJ out of the new markets it tries from BOS because it doesn't have enough pricing power to fill in larger aircraft and it wants frequency to compete on schedule vs B6/AA/UA in these markets. Those RJ have really high costs. Even with that, they are getting significantly lower yields than B6 E90s. In markets where they have enough pricing power like BOS-RDU, they do try to upgauge to mainline. I post all the BOS numbers in JetBlue thread. There is nothing magical going on here.
Last edited by tphuang on Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:44 pm

richierich wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:

Because with the 2x2 config of the 190s, no one will be able to tell the difference between that and a CRJ-200.


Huge difference in terms of cabin height and seat comfort. The E190s also have bigger bins. Even KL flies them, and I find them to be just fine and definitely better than the Fokkers.


This is not even a discussion, is it? The CRJs (all of them, but especially the -200s) are cramped and uncomfortable compared to any of the E-170s or E-190s series. It's not even close.
Never mind the IFE, B6's E190s may be old and starting show some age here and there, but I'd take their seat comfort over a regional CRJ-200 ANY DAY. To be honest, I find them more comfortable than most carrier's B737s and A320s!


Again, yes, you and I can easily tell the difference. Those who don't care about the type of plane they are on (99% of the population) will have a much harder time, especially if they were guaranteed not to be on a "small plane"
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
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OA412
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Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:18 pm

Has there been any confirmation from B6 itself that these changes will be adopted?
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
BlueBaller
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:07 pm

Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:09 pm

OA412 wrote:
Has there been any confirmation from B6 itself that these changes will be adopted?


No. Like many here, I work for B6 in Flight Operations, based in Boston on the Bus. Lock it up.
 
Bluewho
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:58 pm

Re: MINT and other Service Cuts to JetBlue, starting 9/1

Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:24 pm

OA412 wrote:
Has there been any confirmation from B6 itself that these changes will be adopted?



NOPE

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