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PA515
Posts: 1541
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:50 pm

zkncj wrote:
The 4x domestic A320CEO’s that are planned to be replaced are all leased, which there lease term is coming towards the end. They are being replaced by lease a321NEOs so no required capital out lay on that change of it. It’s an simple swap of leased a320s for leased a321s.

They would be getting pretty high cycles now too, so the lease company would most likely want them back while they still have some value in them.


The A321neos on order will be owned. The only leased A321neos are the already delivered ZK-NNA, ZK-NNC and ZK-NNE leased from ALC. There will be two leased A320neos, ZK-NHA and ZK-NHD, also leased from ALC. The four leased domestic A320ceos, ZK-OAB & ZK-OJQ (leased from ALC) and ZK-OJR & ZK-OJS (leased from BOC) will have options to extend the leases.

PA515
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:20 pm

NZ516 wrote:
With Chris Luxon tenure coming to an end later this month. I thought it could be good to reflect on all the expansion by Air NZ in his time as CEO.
Going back over the years there has been so much added to the network. Would the company have grown by approx 40% over the period. A fair bit I would say. Here is a list of what routes have been added recently
2019 AKL to IVC, AKL to ICN, CHC to SIN
2018 AKL to ORD, AKL to TPE, WLG to BNE, ZQN to BNE
2017.AKL to HND
2016 AKL to KIX, AKL to SGN
2015 AKL to SIN, AKL to EZE, AKL to IAH
2014 AKL to DPS
An amazing amount of new destinations. What a big year was 2015 for the company 3 long haul year round destinations added. It's possibly the biggest expansion in the history of the airline in such a short space of time. Well done to NZ.


He's certainly been one of the better CEO's.... the wider Pacific Rim Strategy will be his legacy and while it may not be used in any future commentary by the new CEO I bet you the theory behind it will remain with the airline for the foreseeable future.

You could argue some negative things too...

Dropped HKG-LHR, AKL-PEK, AKL-VLI, made AKL-CNS seasonal, you added AKL-SGN but it didn't last, announced AKL-MNL but it never commenced AKL-MRO, AKL-PPQ domestically, Eagle Airways with WHK, KAT, WSZ

I think you've also missed CHC-PER.

Overall, I'm pleased he's had the belief and the team to reshape the network both Domestic and International. For the better.
 
NPL8800
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:44 pm

I understand DPS was launched a tad earlier with the first season in 2012, 7 years and getting stronger with each season, not bad for medium haul leisure route.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:44 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
An additional configuration wouldn’t be hard to do at all so long as it’s a commercially viable configuration that will make money surely?


It's very easy to do, as they'll likely cycle through NYC and Tasman only where code 1's will be Asian etc.. so from a logistical sense, it's not too hard at all, until you get unexpected MX.

If you look at NZ fares, lead-in (S class) one-way fare to LAX is $655, to ORD is $805 so a $150 difference, if you were to look at the US add-on's, cities around ORD are zone 5, which is $300, double what charges in base fare difference.

Not the best example, but helps illustrate the extra distance doesn't cost the airline a fortune but using another carrier does.

The theory is, direct flights will make NZ more accessible to the millions around NYC but also more affordable, the NYC add-on is $350, (I'll half that again like ORD and add it to $655 for LAX) imagine if the fares were only $830 one way, I mean $350 might not sound like much until you double if for return ($700) and double again for your travelling companion ($1,400).. heck let's add a couple of kids ($2,800)... you can see where I'm going.

Also, I'm aware I'm talking about Americans coming here but am using NZ based fares... it's not so much the math but the underling theory
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:00 pm

NPL8800 wrote:
I understand DPS was launched a tad earlier with the first season in 2012, 7 years and getting stronger with each season, not bad for medium haul leisure route.


You are correct however still a Luxon credit, he was in charge of the long haul airline at the time if not CEO as I'm sure he took over in 2012 as well.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... 20Denpasar
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:30 pm

NZ6 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
An additional configuration wouldn’t be hard to do at all so long as it’s a commercially viable configuration that will make money surely?


It's very easy to do, as they'll likely cycle through NYC and Tasman only where code 1's will be Asian etc.. so from a logistical sense, it's not too hard at all, until you get unexpected MX.

If you look at NZ fares, lead-in (S class) one-way fare to LAX is $655, to ORD is $805 so a $150 difference, if you were to look at the US add-on's, cities around ORD are zone 5, which is $300, double what charges in base fare difference.

Not the best example, but helps illustrate the extra distance doesn't cost the airline a fortune but using another carrier does.

The theory is, direct flights will make NZ more accessible to the millions around NYC but also more affordable, the NYC add-on is $350, (I'll half that again like ORD and add it to $655 for LAX) imagine if the fares were only $830 one way, I mean $350 might not sound like much until you double if for return ($700) and double again for your travelling companion ($1,400).. heck let's add a couple of kids ($2,800)... you can see where I'm going.

Also, I'm aware I'm talking about Americans coming here but am using NZ based fares... it's not so much the math but the underling theory


I was going to say so long as there is 2-3 long haul routes to cover say 4-6 code 3 frames, GRU might be another one although South America, Brazil, Argentina are up and down big time, not the most stable. ORD is another possible code 3 route?

While some routes might transfer to code 2, that’s where it gets interesting as reading between the lines it seems the 78J will have additional premium seats mainly used to Asia so almost a code 2 premium count and code 1 Economy count? Somewhere around 310-330 seats all up.

I could see the 78J to NRT/HKG/SIN/PVG/PER/HNL.

Code 1, ICN/TPE/EZE/DPS/CHC-SIN
Code 2 YVR/ some routes that don’t need 78J or get seasonal 78J, second AKL-SIN etc, not a lot though

Code 3, NYC/ORD

Was there a plan to convert 1-3 code 1 to code 2? Nothing official I know but I guess for now the 772 can do some Asian flying NRT/KIX etc which is happening for NW. Also HNL.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:52 am

Christchurch to Perth re-started in Dec 2013 from this link:

https://www.christchurchairport.co.nz/e ... th-direct/
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:58 am

PA515 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
The 4x domestic A320CEO’s that are planned to be replaced are all leased, which there lease term is coming towards the end. They are being replaced by lease a321NEOs so no required capital out lay on that change of it. It’s an simple swap of leased a320s for leased a321s.

They would be getting pretty high cycles now too, so the lease company would most likely want them back while they still have some value in them.


The A321neos on order will be owned. The only leased A321neos are the already delivered ZK-NNA, ZK-NNC and ZK-NNE leased from ALC. There will be two leased A320neos, ZK-NHA and ZK-NHD, also leased from ALC. The four leased domestic A320ceos, ZK-OAB & ZK-OJQ (leased from ALC) and ZK-OJR & ZK-OJS (leased from BOC) will have options to extend the leases.

PA515


Very interesting Pa515 thanks for the info, so they own the rest eg NNB, NND, NNF and NNG. With NHB and NHC owned as well.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:47 am

With NZR set for delivery later this month. NZ could one up QF and route it Seattle to New York then onto Auckland for trial run and for testing purposes..
 
NTLDaz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:14 am

NZ516 wrote:
With NZR set for delivery later this month. NZ could one up QF and route it Seattle to New York then onto Auckland for trial run and for testing purposes..


How on Earth would that be one upping Qantas ?
 
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qf789
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:18 am

NZ516 wrote:
With NZR set for delivery later this month. NZ could one up QF and route it Seattle to New York then onto Auckland for trial run and for testing purposes..


NZR wont be delivered until October most likely towards the middle of the month
Forum Moderator
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:36 am

NTLDaz wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
With NZR set for delivery later this month. NZ could one up QF and route it Seattle to New York then onto Auckland for trial run and for testing purposes..


How on Earth would that be one upping Qantas ?


You get the general idea don’t you?

NYC-AKL would be around 17hrs, you could fly it down to IVC and back to add 3 hrs or so. Unlikely I think.
 
NTLDaz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:53 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
With NZR set for delivery later this month. NZ could one up QF and route it Seattle to New York then onto Auckland for trial run and for testing purposes..


How on Earth would that be one upping Qantas ?


You get the general idea don’t you?

NYC-AKL would be around 17hrs, you could fly it down to IVC and back to add 3 hrs or so. Unlikely I think.


Not sure what you mean by general idea. The thought that NZ doing a delivery flight in a plane that could already fly NYC-AKL with the right configuration will somehow one up QF has me bemused.
 
jimmyah
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:13 am

NTLDaz wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:

How on Earth would that be one upping Qantas ?


You get the general idea don’t you?

NYC-AKL would be around 17hrs, you could fly it down to IVC and back to add 3 hrs or so. Unlikely I think.


Not sure what you mean by general idea. The thought that NZ doing a delivery flight in a plane that could already fly NYC-AKL with the right configuration will somehow one up QF has me bemused.


Because Qantas plan to do the exact same thing...
 
NTLDaz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:44 am

jimmyah wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

You get the general idea don’t you?

NYC-AKL would be around 17hrs, you could fly it down to IVC and back to add 3 hrs or so. Unlikely I think.


Not sure what you mean by general idea. The thought that NZ doing a delivery flight in a plane that could already fly NYC-AKL with the right configuration will somehow one up QF has me bemused.


Because Qantas plan to do the exact same thing...


Ummm no. Not the same thing at all. It's to test flight distances greater than those currently flown and what affect that will have on crews ( and sure some PR ).

To one up QF they'd have to give a toss about NZ doing it. Can't see why they would. Do you think NZ flying NYC - AKL would rate a mention in Australia ?
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:01 am

PA515 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
zkncj wrote:

Isn’t it an total of 20 A320/321NEO (owned/leased)

Of which 13x a320/321NEO’s are planned as direct replacements for Tasman/Pacific fleet.

The 7x a321NEO for Domestic to enable growth over the next few years, are to replace the following:
- 3x temporary A320CEO (ex Tasman/Pacific fleet)
- 4x leased domestic A320CEO’s (OAB,JQ,JR,JS)
These are the oldest in the domestic fleet, and don’t have Sharkelts (2011 builds).


This is the exact plan as far as I know. They have postponed some delivery dates for a few Neos.
To reduce capital expenditure in the next few years. They could possibly slow down the domestic 321neo order as well as some of the oldest domestic 320s are still quite young coming up to 9 years old. So could keep them in the fleet a bit longer eg another 5 more years.


It would also be useful to have the flexibility of a single A321neo fleet for international and domestic use. There's been a more mixed use of the international A320ceos recently and the possibility of A321XLRs from 2023 could make some existing A321neos available for domestic use.

The two 'domestic' A321neos due in FY2024 (i.e. 2nd half of 2023) could be converted to A321XLRs, and the two international A320neos and two 'domestic' A321neos due in FY2022 could be deferred and converted to A321XLRs. Don't think they will further defer the three 'domestic' A321neos due in FY2021 (i.e. 2nd half of 2020).

Still a few unknowns like tourism numbers, the international economy, fuel prices and VA's services.

PA515
some advantages sure but in general outweighed by having a dedicated fleet.
Domestic aircraft have smaller galleys, no life rafts, no IFE, less bulkheads etc and for the A320 fleet one less lav. This all adds up to lower weight and more seats (both of which are important for short hops where a straight climb to cruise saves fuel burn). Also they have higher cycles so have a shorter lifespan.
59 types. 41 countries. 24 airlines.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:16 am

NTLDaz wrote:
jimmyah wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:

Not sure what you mean by general idea. The thought that NZ doing a delivery flight in a plane that could already fly NYC-AKL with the right configuration will somehow one up QF has me bemused.


Because Qantas plan to do the exact same thing...


Ummm no. Not the same thing at all. It's to test flight distances greater than those currently flown and what affect that will have on crews ( and sure some PR ).

To one up QF they'd have to give a toss about NZ doing it. Can't see why they would. Do you think NZ flying NYC - AKL would rate a mention in Australia ?


Sure its to test crew fatigue etc and PR, but like I say you get the general idea? I agree probably won’t happen and QF probably won’t care. The thought of being one upped if you can call it that.

NZ flying AKL-NYC would get some mention in Australia, NZ offer competitive fares OZ-US and pick up plenty of traffic.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:53 am

Air NZ A321-271NX ZK-NNG (msn 8908) D-AVXN had it's first flight about three hours ago.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/d-avxn

PA515
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:53 pm

NZ516 wrote:
With NZR set for delivery later this month. NZ could one up QF and route it Seattle to New York then onto Auckland for trial run and for testing purposes..


NZ hasn't official announced NYC yet, they haven't even ordered the aircraft which they believe will deliver such a route for them.

Sounds like a good way to through a few hundred thousand down the drain to be honest

For starters PER-LHR is longer so what would NZ be 'upping' on QF?

Besides, there are other existing routes longer than AKL-NYC, AKL-DXB, AKL-DOH are two which operate from AKL all be it with different equipment.

QF is looking at breaking new ground in aviation with their ultra, ultra-long-haul flights... whereas NZ's trying to go long and thin but well within current day range.

All that aside didn't Airbus fly the A340-600 HKG-LAX (or similar) the long way around the world as a PR gimmick to highlight it's range.. commercial aircraft can fly a bloody long way, no one needs to prove that... If you look at QF, it's not about that. It's research into their project looking into the effects on people which will all likely shape part of their end product.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:01 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
I was going to say so long as there is 2-3 long haul routes to cover say 4-6 code 3 frames, GRU might be another one although South America, Brazil, Argentina are up and down big time, not the most stable. ORD is another possible code 3 route?

While some routes might transfer to code 2, that’s where it gets interesting as reading between the lines it seems the 78J will have additional premium seats mainly used to Asia so almost a code 2 premium count and code 1 Economy count? Somewhere around 310-330 seats all up.

I could see the 78J to NRT/HKG/SIN/PVG/PER/HNL.

Code 1, ICN/TPE/EZE/DPS/CHC-SIN
Code 2 YVR/ some routes that don’t need 78J or get seasonal 78J, second AKL-SIN etc, not a lot though

Code 3, NYC/ORD

Was there a plan to convert 1-3 code 1 to code 2? Nothing official I know but I guess for now the 772 can do some Asian flying NRT/KIX etc which is happening for NW. Also HNL.


It's an interesting issue, does NZ need 2-3 code 3 routes so they can support 4-6 frames as you say or... Does NZ just Opt to have 2 frames, cycle them through NYC and around the Short Haul network?

Does NZ look to increase the frequency at the expense of density and actually forgo code 2, end up with Codes 1 and 3?

If you look at the timeline, IAH-ORD-NYC the trend suggests it'll be slightly after mid-2020's before something after NYC gets launched in the USA. Remembering there are other options in addition to NYC. Of course, anything can change

South America is another option but carries a much higher risk.
 
NTLDaz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:13 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:
jimmyah wrote:

Because Qantas plan to do the exact same thing...


Ummm no. Not the same thing at all. It's to test flight distances greater than those currently flown and what affect that will have on crews ( and sure some PR ).

To one up QF they'd have to give a toss about NZ doing it. Can't see why they would. Do you think NZ flying NYC - AKL would rate a mention in Australia ?


Sure its to test crew fatigue etc and PR, but like I say you get the general idea? I agree probably won’t happen and QF probably won’t care. The thought of being one upped if you can call it that.

NZ flying AKL-NYC would get some mention in Australia, NZ offer competitive fares OZ-US and pick up plenty of traffic.


If they were to schedule flights to NYC yes it would get some mention. I'm talking about a delivery flight not getting any press as such.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:26 pm

Does anyone know what's happened to ATR 72-600 ZK-MVP. It doesn't appear to have flown since 16 Jul 2019 when NZ5625 HLZ-CHC was cancelled.

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKMVP

PA515
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:31 pm

NZ6 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
I was going to say so long as there is 2-3 long haul routes to cover say 4-6 code 3 frames, GRU might be another one although South America, Brazil, Argentina are up and down big time, not the most stable. ORD is another possible code 3 route?

While some routes might transfer to code 2, that’s where it gets interesting as reading between the lines it seems the 78J will have additional premium seats mainly used to Asia so almost a code 2 premium count and code 1 Economy count? Somewhere around 310-330 seats all up.

I could see the 78J to NRT/HKG/SIN/PVG/PER/HNL.

Code 1, ICN/TPE/EZE/DPS/CHC-SIN
Code 2 YVR/ some routes that don’t need 78J or get seasonal 78J, second AKL-SIN etc, not a lot though

Code 3, NYC/ORD

Was there a plan to convert 1-3 code 1 to code 2? Nothing official I know but I guess for now the 772 can do some Asian flying NRT/KIX etc which is happening for NW. Also HNL.


It's an interesting issue, does NZ need 2-3 code 3 routes so they can support 4-6 frames as you say or... Does NZ just Opt to have 2 frames, cycle them through NYC and around the Short Haul network?

Does NZ look to increase the frequency at the expense of density and actually forgo code 2, end up with Codes 1 and 3?

If you look at the timeline, IAH-ORD-NYC the trend suggests it'll be slightly after mid-2020's before something after NYC gets launched in the USA. Remembering there are other options in addition to NYC. Of course, anything can change

South America is another option but carries a much higher risk.


I’ve been thinking the 789s as you say could end up as code 1 and code 3, with the 78J kind of replacing the code 2 and taking over a fair bit of the Asian flying, with the remainder using the code 1 789 fleet.

In terms of frequency, I think code 3 to IAH/ORD maybe with daily flights more often throughout the year.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:12 am

On tonight's one news bulletin. Air NZ is interested in using Whenuapai airport and wants to discuss it with the defense about sharing the facilities to start commercial services. They said it would benefit the consumers with lower fares and create more competition with AKL I presume. If NZ were allowed in could we expect to see WLG and CHC 320 flights out of WPE initially?
 
jimmyah
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:16 am

NZ516 wrote:
On tonight's one news bulletin. Air NZ is interested in using Whenuapai airport and wants to discuss it with the defense about sharing the facilities to start commercial services. They said it would benefit the consumers with lower fares and create more competition with AKL I presume. If NZ were allowed in could we expect to see WLG and CHC 320 flights out of WPE initially?


Probably just NZ playing the game to keep AKL on their toes, I doubt Whenuapai is in the picture at the moment, but AKL will want to be careful if they delay their domestic upgrades any longer.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:37 am

It would be probably be ten years away before it starts but I could see it working well would serve a large population base of the North Auckland region. Which is an hour away from AKL at the moment.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:45 am

jimmyah wrote:
I doubt Whenuapai is in the picture at the moment

What about Ardmore? :lol:
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:41 pm

Air New Zealand: Auckland could have second commercial airport at Whenuapai

Air New Zealand says it could be commercially viable for it to operate Whenuapai as a second Auckland airport, running services to Wellington and Christchurch.
Christopher Luxon, the airline's chief executive, issued a statement saying that the airline was told by customers that the transport infrastructure to get to and from the existing airport in Auckland was "suboptimal".
"Once customers get to Auckland Airport their experience there is well below the standard they expect for the main entry point into our nation's largest city," he said.


"While our assessment of Whenuapai is not yet completed, it has become clear that several services a day to both Wellington and Christchurch could be commercially viable. We are in the final stages of assessing whether we could make flights to Queenstown, Napier, Nelson and Palmerston North stack up as well."

full story here:


https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/115574 ... -whenuapai

Infrafil is interested in investing into Whenuapai as well so this is a good start perhaps they would need up to $100m to develop the required infrastructure.before services could start. Also with two airports in Auckland competing for the same pax this will help to keep a lid on the ever increasing cost rises at AKL
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:33 pm

If NZ can justify and A320 on AKL-IVC, surely they should be able to fill a couple of Whenuapai-WLG/CHC services per day (from people on that side of town).

To start with the terminal could just be like OOL, to prove the concept of an second airport for an smaller expenditure.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:13 pm

Looking at Friday morning traffic to Whenuapai at 8am.

Mount Eden to Whenuapai Airport - 23minutes
Mount Eden to Auckland Airport - 24-26minutes

Westfield Albany to Whenuapai Airport - 21minutes
Westfield Albany to Auckland Airport - 45minutes

Britomart to Whenuapai Airport - 27minutes
Britomart to Auckland Airport - 32minutes

Silverdale to Whenuapai Airport - 32minutes
Silverdale to Auckland Airport - 60minutes

For Central Auckland the time is really that much different between the two Airports, giving it an expanded catchment.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:19 pm

Call me skeptical but I feel like WPE would have been done 10-15 years ago if the growth in AKL could have been foreseen. Now it seems to little to late and nothing will actually happen. It’s a pity there is no infrastructure in place at WPE which might make AKL move at more than a slow snails pace.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:48 pm

Regarding Whenuapai, I've spent the night wondering what the underlying motive behind these comments are

1. Air NZ's poor attempt at putting AIAL on notice as such?
2. Air NZ attempting to build public interest/support for such a project
3. Luxon just making noise and it's linked to his next move into Policies

I love this topic, AIAL has the land, size and plans to serve Auckland for the next 100+ years. There is no doubt about that.

But as AKL spreads geographically more and more of us are living further from the airport, these growth areas are also higher-income households who will likely use/need an airport.

Take zknjc's example about, 60 minutes from Silverdale to AIAL, that'll be 75+mins in 15years and that area is a significant growth area. Kumeu/Huapai, Riverhead, Hellenville, Warkworth etc are all some distance from AIAL also and are areas of high future growth.

Whenuapai as an option is simply ridiculous as it's essentially a residential subdivision now. I believe Luxon knows that!

The issue is, without Whenuapai being the answer what is?
 
aerokiwi
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:06 pm

Ugh! I was arguing for Whenuapai 10-15 years ago. It was a strategic blunder by both NZ and multiple governments to ignore this and effectively build out the airport with low density, pitiful urban sprawl.

Once again, zero foresight by just about everyone. They're stuck with AKL now. Enjoy that monopoly burger in an atrociously "planned" city like Auckland. Maybe if someone bit the bullet and went for a Greenfield site a bit further north... but no one ever will.

Even just an ATR operation to Wellington would have been worthwhile, alaying resident concerns over noise.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:43 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
I’ve been thinking the 789s as you say could end up as code 1 and code 3, with the 78J kind of replacing the code 2 and taking over a fair bit of the Asian flying, with the remainder using the code 1 789 fleet.

In terms of frequency, I think code 3 to IAH/ORD maybe with daily flights more often throughout the year.


Yip I tend to agree, you could maybe look at adding YVR there too.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:58 pm

This is just like Ryanair's CEO floating pay toilets. It's a good way to get airtime.

The actual solution is making travel to the existing airport more reliable and possibly faster. Which means dedicated rights of way for mass transit. Light rail, busways, whatever. People want to be able to actually trust that they'll arrive at a destination by a given time. And mass transit benefits more than just those flying.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:07 pm

aerokiwi wrote:
Ugh! I was arguing for Whenuapai 10-15 years ago. It was a strategic blunder by both NZ and multiple governments to ignore this and effectively build out the airport with low density, pitiful urban sprawl.

Once again, zero foresight by just about everyone. They're stuck with AKL now. Enjoy that monopoly burger in an atrociously "planned" city like Auckland. Maybe if someone bit the bullet and went for a Greenfield site a bit further north... but no one ever will.

Even just an ATR operation to Wellington would have been worthwhile, alaying resident concerns over noise.


I would've supported it 15 years ago but not today. The world has moved on and Whenupai is now residential. It could have been retail/industrial in lieu of what has become 'North West' but it never happened.

Not everyone was a fan though, one of the major red flags for any development was the predicted long term issues with North Shore residents like we have today with Eden Park and the Speedway.

To be honest the Keumu area isn't all that far from the airport, however, as the area grows its all going to be fed down SH16 and through the tunnel. The same route they're trying to convince residents on the shore to take. So, Westgate - Waterview will soon become gridlock.

Also, Auckland's expected to develop further North on both the West and East coasts, including as far north as Warkworth were the Northern Motorway will soon terminate. It's part of this amazing Super City and locals are already commuting from there into what we'd typically call "Auckland".Bearing that in mind, how long before the population SH18 north reaches 500,000+? (North Shore Population already is already over 300,000 I believe)
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:17 pm

NZ6 wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
Ugh! I was arguing for Whenuapai 10-15 years ago. It was a strategic blunder by both NZ and multiple governments to ignore this and effectively build out the airport with low density, pitiful urban sprawl.

Once again, zero foresight by just about everyone. They're stuck with AKL now. Enjoy that monopoly burger in an atrociously "planned" city like Auckland. Maybe if someone bit the bullet and went for a Greenfield site a bit further north... but no one ever will.

Even just an ATR operation to Wellington would have been worthwhile, alaying resident concerns over noise.



Whenuapai could be an good temporary starting to get land put aside some were on the NorthWestern end of Auckland for an future airport, with the mean time getting basic services up an running an Whenuapai. Which would require minimal layout to prove that its worth the capital expense on an second airport.

If they could lease an ex-RNZAF hangar an do an conversion project it could be an good low cost starting point, that would ok to walk away from in say 10 years once an new airport is bulit.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:30 am

zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
Ugh! I was arguing for Whenuapai 10-15 years ago. It was a strategic blunder by both NZ and multiple governments to ignore this and effectively build out the airport with low density, pitiful urban sprawl.

Once again, zero foresight by just about everyone. They're stuck with AKL now. Enjoy that monopoly burger in an atrociously "planned" city like Auckland. Maybe if someone bit the bullet and went for a Greenfield site a bit further north... but no one ever will.

Even just an ATR operation to Wellington would have been worthwhile, alaying resident concerns over noise.



Whenuapai could be an good temporary starting to get land put aside some were on the NorthWestern end of Auckland for an future airport, with the mean time getting basic services up an running an Whenuapai. Which would require minimal layout to prove that its worth the capital expense on an second airport.

If they could lease an ex-RNZAF hangar an do an conversion project it could be an good low cost starting point, that would ok to walk away from in say 10 years once an new airport is bulit.


I really like the thinking behind this but as soon as I put more thought into it...

1. You'd need resource consent for things like commercial flight paths etc... likely to be rejected or opposed resulting in costly court costs.
2. Traffic management / Access points likely to form part of the above issue.
3. Defence Security - only way in currently is via the main gate so a secondary entrance with secure fencing would be required. Would prove a challenge as there are Defence facilities on both sides of the main road in, so immediately you're looking at a second entry point which highlights point 2's problem as it'll be off a side road.
4. Cost vs Time and likelihood of a second airport being built.

The 4th point is the kicker, even if you used an existing building (hanger) it'd be millions to convert into a basic useable terminal. Not just on the inside, but parking, taxi rank, pick up drop off etc. Let's say $100M (number plucked from thin air). How long is will it remain an airfield? who pays for the development? Does JQ follow? the airline needs a second set of managers, team leaders, CSA's, loaders, refuelers the list goes on... is Defence going to control ramp movements? what sort of short term return does NZ want and what if a second airport never eventuates?

while on the surface a trial would be perfect. it just wouldn't work.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:43 am

NZ516 wrote:
Christchurch to Perth re-started in Dec 2013 from this link:

https://www.christchurchairport.co.nz/e ... th-direct/


I remember that it was originally a weekly flight on.a Sunday operated by a 767-200 back in the late 80s or early 90s thereabouts
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:54 am

PA515 wrote:
Does anyone know what's happened to ATR 72-600 ZK-MVP. It doesn't appear to have flown since 16 Jul 2019 when NZ5625 HLZ-CHC was cancelled.

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKMVP

PA515


I believe it is planned to do.5759 CHC to DUD on the 9th so might have been in maintenance for the period
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:57 am

Today the 6th September is the first regular Auckland to Norfolk Island service by Air Chathams hopefully it goes well for them.
Last edited by NZ516 on Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:59 am

Another entitlement change coming up shortly... will be unpopular.
 
777ER
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:12 am

NZ6 wrote:
Another entitlement change coming up shortly... will be unpopular.

My money is on making it harder to reach Gold/Gold Elite. If it is then its to help relieve the pressure on the AKL Intl lounge
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:57 am

Latest picture of Air New Zealand 789 ZK-NZR in final assembly

http://www.paineairport.com/images/kpae17708hg.png
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zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:54 am

NZ6 wrote:
3. Defence Security - only way in currently is via the main gate so a secondary entrance with secure fencing would be required. Would prove a challenge as there are Defence facilities on both sides of the main road in, so immediately you're looking at a second entry point which highlights point 2's problem as it'll be off a side road.


It can be done, and is already been done in BHE without to inconvenience.

I think if you we're starting off small with say just ATR 72-600 services, you could essay have the same setup as BHE.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:42 pm

zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
3. Defence Security - only way in currently is via the main gate so a secondary entrance with secure fencing would be required. Would prove a challenge as there are Defence facilities on both sides of the main road in, so immediately you're looking at a second entry point which highlights point 2's problem as it'll be off a side road.


It can be done, and is already been done in BHE without to inconvenience.

I think if you we're starting off small with say just ATR 72-600 services, you could essay have the same setup as BHE.



But look at what BHE is used for vs the size and scale of the RNZAF largest operational base in Auckland.

Also, to get the hangers you need to drive right through the middle and the full length of the base.

So not really comparable.

Not saying it can’t be done, I’m just saying it’s there would likely be some issues.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:41 pm

NZ516 wrote:
PA515 wrote:
Does anyone know what's happened to ATR 72-600 ZK-MVP. It doesn't appear to have flown since 16 Jul 2019 when NZ5625 HLZ-CHC was cancelled.

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKMVP

PA515


I believe it is planned to do.5759 CHC to DUD on the 9th so might have been in maintenance for the period


Thanks NZ516. That's 55 days for a two year old aircraft, so not routine maintenance. A few years back an ATR 72-600 had a wingtip damaged by a fuel truck at WLG and they had to wait for the part to be manufactured. Maybe something similar.

PA515
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:12 pm

New Zealand's Newest International Airline

Air Chathams commences its first international service today as it begins flights between Auckland and Norfolk Island. The new route will be serviced by Air Chathams' Convair 580 aircraft. The weekly service is being operated on Fridays with the flights scheduled to take 2 hours 20 minutes. The flight to Norfolk Island, 3C 401, will depart Auckland at 9am and arriving at 10.20am Norfolk Island time. The return flight, 3C 402, will leave Norfolk Island at 11.20am and arrive back into Auckland at 2.40pm.

The first flight was flown under the command of founder and owner Craig Emeny and his son, Duane Emeny, Air Chathams' General Manager in Convair ZK-CIB.

Auckland Airport congratulates Air Chathams on first international flight
Auckland Airport has welcomed Air Chatham’s first international flight to Norfolk Island today. With the service to operate once a week, the first flight was piloted by founder and owner Craig Emeny and his son, Duane Emeny, General Manager of Air Chathams. “We are really excited to re-establish the direct link between Auckland and Norfolk Island and we are really encouraged by the early interest we’ve had from passengers, with forward bookings indicating it’s going to be another successful route for our family airline,” says Duane Emeny, General Manager, Air Chathams. Scott Tasker, Auckland Airport’s General Manager Aeronautical Commercial, says the new service is great news for travellers, adding more choice and capacity. “With a flight time of just over two hours, the direct flight will enable travellers to experience a pristine tourism destination and provide freight opportunities for locals, with the new year-round service offering over 5,000 seats on the route per year. “Since Air Chathams began regular mainland New Zealand services in 2015, it has seen rapid growth, now flying to eight destinations and carrying over 100,000 people per year. We look forward to seeing Air Chathams continue to grow and provide the much-valued service of linking New Zealand communities, and now Norfolk Island, together,” adds Mr Tasker.


Source : Press Release: Auckland Airport

Great to have another second NZ international airline, sounds like this route will be a success for them. So where next for Air Chathams? Might be another former Air NZ route that could be a goer.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:49 pm

NZ516 wrote:
New Zealand's Newest International Airline

Air Chathams commences its first international service today as it begins flights between Auckland and Norfolk Island. The new route will be serviced by Air Chathams' Convair 580 aircraft. The weekly service is being operated on Fridays with the flights scheduled to take 2 hours 20 minutes. The flight to Norfolk Island, 3C 401, will depart Auckland at 9am and arriving at 10.20am Norfolk Island time. The return flight, 3C 402, will leave Norfolk Island at 11.20am and arrive back into Auckland at 2.40pm.

The first flight was flown under the command of founder and owner Craig Emeny and his son, Duane Emeny, Air Chathams' General Manager in Convair ZK-CIB.

Auckland Airport congratulates Air Chathams on first international flight
Auckland Airport has welcomed Air Chatham’s first international flight to Norfolk Island today. With the service to operate once a week, the first flight was piloted by founder and owner Craig Emeny and his son, Duane Emeny, General Manager of Air Chathams. “We are really excited to re-establish the direct link between Auckland and Norfolk Island and we are really encouraged by the early interest we’ve had from passengers, with forward bookings indicating it’s going to be another successful route for our family airline,” says Duane Emeny, General Manager, Air Chathams. Scott Tasker, Auckland Airport’s General Manager Aeronautical Commercial, says the new service is great news for travellers, adding more choice and capacity. “With a flight time of just over two hours, the direct flight will enable travellers to experience a pristine tourism destination and provide freight opportunities for locals, with the new year-round service offering over 5,000 seats on the route per year. “Since Air Chathams began regular mainland New Zealand services in 2015, it has seen rapid growth, now flying to eight destinations and carrying over 100,000 people per year. We look forward to seeing Air Chathams continue to grow and provide the much-valued service of linking New Zealand communities, and now Norfolk Island, together,” adds Mr Tasker.


Source : Press Release: Auckland Airport

Great to have another second NZ international airline, sounds like this route will be a success for them. So where next for Air Chathams? Might be another former Air NZ route that could be a goer.


It must of been an long tine since New Zealand has had an International service operated by an prop? It also must be one of the only International passenger route operated by an aircraft that is over 50 years old.

If Air Chat's do get 737s as they have talked about is the past, I think we could see them take over NZ's IUE service.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:33 am

NZ516 wrote:
So where next for Air Chathams?

What about WKA, from AKL or CHC?

Cheers,

C.
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