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a7ala
Posts: 300
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:40 am

Qantas16 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/286302/adelaide-market-review-and-passenger-traffic-forecast/

Interesting analysis of the potential for CHC-ADL, proposing 5x weekly service if by QF 73H in summer peak. My gut feeling is that that’s too high but it does fill one of the important gaps in connectivity for CHC. What about NZ operating a few per week in summer, transferring some of that capacity to ZQN-ADL in winter? Ultimately both sectors could have a place in the network.

The same analysis also suggests that AKL-ADL is underserved - a significant number of pax choose to connect on the east coast. Partly that will be price-driven, but also partly the fact that NZ does not offer a daily service. NZ has deliberately reduced frequency so that it can offer WB service - would be interested to know whether that has worked out better for the carrier in the medium term. IIRC it’s now 4x weekly in the winter (up from 3x weekly last year?).


Fascinating analysis. Though I can't see QF launching ADL-CHC before they launch ADL-AKL. 4x weekly ADL-AKL and 3x weekly ADL-CHC could be a good place to start though I'm not holding my breath and I'm sure QF would want ADL / SA Gov to cough up some subsidies.


Agreed QF does no international flying out of ADL at all and uses hub-spoke model through SYD and MEL. Little for them to gain flying to AKL or CHC. Stronger opportunity for a 5th freedom operator providing a beyond connection to Asia or ME.
 
jimmyah
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:53 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:44 am

Qantas16 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/286302/adelaide-market-review-and-passenger-traffic-forecast/

Interesting analysis of the potential for CHC-ADL, proposing 5x weekly service if by QF 73H in summer peak. My gut feeling is that that’s too high but it does fill one of the important gaps in connectivity for CHC. What about NZ operating a few per week in summer, transferring some of that capacity to ZQN-ADL in winter? Ultimately both sectors could have a place in the network.

The same analysis also suggests that AKL-ADL is underserved - a significant number of pax choose to connect on the east coast. Partly that will be price-driven, but also partly the fact that NZ does not offer a daily service. NZ has deliberately reduced frequency so that it can offer WB service - would be interested to know whether that has worked out better for the carrier in the medium term. IIRC it’s now 4x weekly in the winter (up from 3x weekly last year?).


Fascinating analysis. Though I can't see QF launching ADL-CHC before they launch ADL-AKL. 4x weekly ADL-AKL and 3x weekly ADL-CHC could be a good place to start though I'm not holding my breath and I'm sure QF would want ADL / SA Gov to cough up some subsidies.


Could we see CHC-ADL served by NZ? With new A320/321 aircraft arriving, surely there is some room in the schedule. If I recall correctly, NZ currently serve AKL-ADL with a 789, so the aircraft would have to rotate through CHC.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:48 am

What affect would an ADL-CHC for QF have on QF’s other CHC services? Particularly MEL/SYD. There is probably growth to be had from MEL/SYD to CHC however.

But with zero international flights from ADL, CHC seems unlikely to added by QF. They served AKL 2004/07 with a 738 as a red eye ex ADL then a 733/734 which connected to the AKL-LAX service both ways.

The market has probably grown since then a NZ have shown by using a 789 albeit with lower frequency, however it seems fairly unlikely that NZ would add a CHC-ADL A320 either, ore likely boost AKL which gives more options for those going to North America.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4296
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:41 am

Speaking of the wider 'Realm' of New Zealand, interesting to see that IUE may get a second flight/destination - Air Rarotonga seems to be considering a RAR - IUE service.

What would the market for this route be?

See: http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2019/09/ ... tonga.html.

Cheers,

C.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1437
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:09 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Speaking of the wider 'Realm' of New Zealand, interesting to see that IUE may get a second flight/destination - Air Rarotonga seems to be considering a RAR - IUE service.

What would the market for this route be?

Another report I read suggested charter flights from RAR to IUE and PPT, rather than scheduled. Getting between islands for cultural and sporting events is currently a nightmare in the Pacific - this is the sort of charter market that I could foresee.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:33 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
The market has probably grown since then a NZ have shown by using a 789 albeit with lower frequency, however it seems fairly unlikely that NZ would add a CHC-ADL A320 either, more likely boost AKL which gives more options for those going to North America.

Sort of agree and disagree. Yes, it would be good for NZ to be able to offer daily AKL-ADL, but based on the analysis it seems that less than 15% of ADL-CHC pax currently transit through New Zealand (ie AKL). So that means that NZ isn’t getting the vast majority of CHC-ADL pax now, and while NZ increasing AKL-ADL from 4x weekly to daily might lift that a bit, the vast majority will probably still fly QF, JQ and VA. Seems a direct service is needed to really capture the market (and avoid what Southerners probably perceive as a backtracking to fly north to AKL first). Besides, the current schedule either requires an overnight in AKL westbound - or a rather unappealing 0550 departure. Other airlines might be more attractive on that score.

Hanging said all of that I’m sure that NZ will have regularly done the numbers on CHC-ADL (as with AKL-HBA and CBR) and for the moment have chosen to hold back. Sooner or later, though, it seems a likely route. I’d be interested whether ZQN-ADL had potential, at least a couple of times a week in the winter season.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
Sylus
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:14 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:01 am

DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
The market has probably grown since then a NZ have shown by using a 789 albeit with lower frequency, however it seems fairly unlikely that NZ would add a CHC-ADL A320 either, more likely boost AKL which gives more options for those going to North America.

Sort of agree and disagree. Yes, it would be good for NZ to be able to offer daily AKL-ADL, but based on the analysis it seems that less than 15% of ADL-CHC pax currently transit through New Zealand (ie AKL). So that means that NZ isn’t getting the vast majority of CHC-ADL pax now, and while NZ increasing AKL-ADL from 4x weekly to daily might lift that a bit, the vast majority will probably still fly QF, JQ and VA. Seems a direct service is needed to really capture the market (and avoid what Southerners probably perceive as a backtracking to fly north to AKL first). Besides, the current schedule either requires an overnight in AKL westbound - or a rather unappealing 0550 departure. Other airlines might be more attractive on that score.

Hanging said all of that I’m sure that NZ will have regularly done the numbers on CHC-ADL (as with AKL-HBA and CBR) and for the moment have chosen to hold back. Sooner or later, though, it seems a likely route. I’d be interested whether ZQN-ADL had potential, at least a couple of times a week in the winter season.


ZQN-BNE and sometimes SYD and MEL struggle with payload restrictions on a number of days in winter so I wonder if the ADL route would just be that bit too far. It's around 1500 nautical miles while BNE is 1300.
 
NZ516
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:52 am

jimmyah wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/286302/adelaide-market-review-and-passenger-traffic-forecast/

Interesting analysis of the potential for CHC-ADL, proposing 5x weekly service if by QF 73H in summer peak. My gut feeling is that that’s too high but it does fill one of the important gaps in connectivity for CHC. What about NZ operating a few per week in summer, transferring some of that capacity to ZQN-ADL in winter? Ultimately both sectors could have a place in the network.

The same analysis also suggests that AKL-ADL is underserved - a significant number of pax choose to connect on the east coast. Partly that will be price-driven, but also partly the fact that NZ does not offer a daily service. NZ has deliberately reduced frequency so that it can offer WB service - would be interested to know whether that has worked out better for the carrier in the medium term. IIRC it’s now 4x weekly in the winter (up from 3x weekly last year?).


Fascinating analysis. Though I can't see QF launching ADL-CHC before they launch ADL-AKL. 4x weekly ADL-AKL and 3x weekly ADL-CHC could be a good place to start though I'm not holding my breath and I'm sure QF would want ADL / SA Gov to cough up some subsidies.


Could we see CHC-ADL served by NZ? With new A320/321 aircraft arriving, surely there is some room in the schedule. If I recall correctly, NZ currently serve AKL-ADL with a 789, so the aircraft would have to rotate through CHC.


I would think that Air NZ would prefer to make AKL to ADL daily first before they would even look at serving the city from another NZ port. The market will take a while to grow before it gets to daily. Similar to the situation with AKL to PER. It took many years before it reached daily and since then has grown to 10 per week in the summer. So there was sufficient demand to add 2 weekly summer service from Christchurch. But Perth is 25% bigger than Adelaide so is further along with the demand curve.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:58 am

DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
The market has probably grown since then a NZ have shown by using a 789 albeit with lower frequency, however it seems fairly unlikely that NZ would add a CHC-ADL A320 either, more likely boost AKL which gives more options for those going to North America.

Sort of agree and disagree. Yes, it would be good for NZ to be able to offer daily AKL-ADL, but based on the analysis it seems that less than 15% of ADL-CHC pax currently transit through New Zealand (ie AKL). So that means that NZ isn’t getting the vast majority of CHC-ADL pax now, and while NZ increasing AKL-ADL from 4x weekly to daily might lift that a bit, the vast majority will probably still fly QF, JQ and VA. Seems a direct service is needed to really capture the market (and avoid what Southerners probably perceive as a backtracking to fly north to AKL first). Besides, the current schedule either requires an overnight in AKL westbound - or a rather unappealing 0550 departure. Other airlines might be more attractive on that score.

Hanging said all of that I’m sure that NZ will have regularly done the numbers on CHC-ADL (as with AKL-HBA and CBR) and for the moment have chosen to hold back. Sooner or later, though, it seems a likely route. I’d be interested whether ZQN-ADL had potential, at least a couple of times a week in the winter season.


Did JQ fly AKL-ADL in more recent years? It wouldn’t have lasted more than 18 months, or am I mistaken? JQ and VA tried AKL-CNS briefly while QF had an AKL-CNS for several years through the late 1980s till early 2000s 2-3 weekly sometimes with 747s, AKL-TSV was served earlier and I think also CHC-CNS?

Personally I would say NZ will target the AKL hub more from ADL so North American and domestic connections via AKL until AKL gets to daily as Jimmyah said with PER then they may look at CHC-ADL.

ZQN-ADL would again for who ever runs it take pax off other services, there isn’t a great deal of space at ZQN, would an ADL service take priority over more SYD/MEL?
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:02 pm

NZ516 wrote:
I would think that Air NZ would prefer to make AKL to ADL daily first before they would even look at serving the city from another NZ port.

As I said earlier, that’s possible, but it’s also saying to the market that they’re prepared to cede CHC-ADL traffic to other carriers (and of course QF codeshares) because the data clearly shows that only a very small minority of CHC-ADL pax are prepared to use AKL as their transit point. From NZ’s point of view, the markets are quite separate. So while they may wish to increase AKL-ADL to daily, that will have minimal impact on the CHC-ADL market (which is what the analysis was about).
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
DavidByrne
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:07 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
Did JQ fly AKL-ADL in more recent years? It wouldn’t have lasted more than 18 months, or am I mistaken? JQ and VA tried AKL-CNS briefly while QF had an AKL-CNS for several years through the late 1980s till early 2000s 2-3 weekly sometimes with 747s, AKL-TSV was served earlier and I think also CHC-CNS?

Yes, IIRC JQ tried AKL-ADL after QF quit. And yes, QF did fly AKL-TSV(-SIN!) for a while with 767s and CHC-CNS 2x weekly (with 742s!) back in the day.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:16 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
ZQN-ADL would again for who ever runs it take pax off other services, there isn’t a great deal of space at ZQN, would an ADL service take priority over more SYD/MEL?

I suspect the current ADL-ZQN market is currently close to zilch and the purpose of establishing a seasonal winter service would be to actually create a new market. But if it’s subject to serious weight limitations then it may be a non-starter. WKA-ADL anyone?
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
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Zkpilot
Posts: 4316
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:09 pm

Sylus wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
The market has probably grown since then a NZ have shown by using a 789 albeit with lower frequency, however it seems fairly unlikely that NZ would add a CHC-ADL A320 either, more likely boost AKL which gives more options for those going to North America.

Sort of agree and disagree. Yes, it would be good for NZ to be able to offer daily AKL-ADL, but based on the analysis it seems that less than 15% of ADL-CHC pax currently transit through New Zealand (ie AKL). So that means that NZ isn’t getting the vast majority of CHC-ADL pax now, and while NZ increasing AKL-ADL from 4x weekly to daily might lift that a bit, the vast majority will probably still fly QF, JQ and VA. Seems a direct service is needed to really capture the market (and avoid what Southerners probably perceive as a backtracking to fly north to AKL first). Besides, the current schedule either requires an overnight in AKL westbound - or a rather unappealing 0550 departure. Other airlines might be more attractive on that score.

Hanging said all of that I’m sure that NZ will have regularly done the numbers on CHC-ADL (as with AKL-HBA and CBR) and for the moment have chosen to hold back. Sooner or later, though, it seems a likely route. I’d be interested whether ZQN-ADL had potential, at least a couple of times a week in the winter season.


ZQN-BNE and sometimes SYD and MEL struggle with payload restrictions on a number of days in winter so I wonder if the ADL route would just be that bit too far. It's around 1500 nautical miles while BNE is 1300.

This should be less of an issue going forward with the A320NEOs with the sharklet’s and more powerful engines.
59 types. 41 countries. 24 airlines.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:47 am

A bit strange that VS has put out there that it's considering expansion to AKL (albeit in relation to slot allocations if the third runway is built at LHR). AKL over MEL (a bigger market) and PER (which can be done non-stop from LHR)? I can't see it happening.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/virg ... nsion-plan

Cheers,

C.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:37 am

Lately a lot of seats are being pulled out of the Christchurch market so I can't see anyone starting a service to ADL. VA has cut back on the CHC to SYD route to seasonal. JQ is about to pull out altogether on the same route. QF has swapped 3 per week CHC to MEL by moving those flights to ZQN. And even AIR NZ has reduced it's weekly Trans Tasman flights. CHC to SYD 13 pw to 10 pw, CHC to MEL 12 pw to 6 pw and CHC to BNE 12 pw to 9 pw. They all are being affected by the softening demand conditions.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:57 pm

Article in NZHerald today saying that NZ is seriously considering NY with existing 789 possibly as soon as next year. Unfortunately article is behind paywall (anyone know a workaround for NZH paywall?)
59 types. 41 countries. 24 airlines.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:31 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
Article in NZHerald today saying that NZ is seriously considering NY with existing 789 possibly as soon as next year. Unfortunately article is behind paywall (anyone know a workaround for NZH paywall?)

Used to know a workaround but they shut that particular door! Damn!
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backfiah
Posts: 3
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:15 pm

You can always view it by using "view source" and finding where the text is...not very user-friendly though.

The article is basically fluff, and NZH is still unable to distinguish between 787-9s and 787-10s in terms of which plane will be used on the NYC route...not sure why anyone would want their "premium" content when they can't even get the basics right.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1158
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:47 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
Article in NZHerald today saying that NZ is seriously considering NY with existing 789 possibly as soon as next year. Unfortunately article is behind paywall (anyone know a workaround for NZH paywall?)


It's pretty easy. On a desktop, view the article and right click on any of the text and click "Inspect".

It'll open up another window or it may be docked on the bottom or right of your browser. undock it, it's easier. This will show the HTML but in a better format than viewing the page source. If you right clicked on the article (the part you can see) then it should jump to this section of the HTML.

just expand the <p> tags to read it, it's annoying but you can see what's there. There's nothing groundbreaking in it. Not worth paying for anyway.

Here's a couple of important lines

The airline has been working with frequent fliers and overseas experts to develop new seats and cabin furniture that will be fitted into existing and new aircraft.

As part of its fleet renewal, the airline had rights to take up to 20 Dreamliners, some of which could be 787-9 planes at a total list price of $4.2 billion, although the airline will get a substantial discount on that.

New York flights would give the airline even greater penetration into the US eastern seaboard. Late last year it began flying non-stop to Chicago three times a week and will increase this to five times a week from November to meet strong demand.


IAH and ORD have both been really successful, so NYC is a matter of when not if but what's not talked about here is, what next after NYC
 
NZ516
Posts: 91
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:41 pm

Excellent news could see Air NZ reconfigure an existing 787 with less Economy seats similar layout of the Qantas 787 with 236. Which could reach NY comfortably even with diversion fuel taken into account. Say if they started New York in a year from now could be possible but might have to reduce existing flying to accomplish this eg not increase Chicago to 5 per week keeping it 3 per week or some other adjustment.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6971
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:07 am

NZ516 wrote:
Excellent news could see Air NZ reconfigure an existing 787 with less Economy seats similar layout of the Qantas 787 with 236. Which could reach NY comfortably even with diversion fuel taken into account. Say if they started New York in a year from now could be possible but might have to reduce existing flying to accomplish this eg not increase Chicago to 5 per week keeping it 3 per week or some other adjustment.


Most likely they will reconfigure 1-2 existing 789s, they could go with a code 2 existing 275 seater and block seats? More flexibility in the fleet that way so they can fly other long haul routes. I would say they will reduce capacity into LAX/SFO maybe 772s rather than 77Ws same for IAH.

Should they do NYC next year they will be taking an aircraft from another route, maybe OKT stays longer again?
 
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Zkpilot
Posts: 4316
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:33 am

NZ6 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Article in NZHerald today saying that NZ is seriously considering NY with existing 789 possibly as soon as next year. Unfortunately article is behind paywall (anyone know a workaround for NZH paywall?)


It's pretty easy. On a desktop, view the article and right click on any of the text and click "Inspect".

It'll open up another window or it may be docked on the bottom or right of your browser. undock it, it's easier. This will show the HTML but in a better format than viewing the page source. If you right clicked on the article (the part you can see) then it should jump to this section of the HTML.

just expand the <p> tags to read it, it's annoying but you can see what's there. There's nothing groundbreaking in it. Not worth paying for anyway.

Here's a couple of important lines

The airline has been working with frequent fliers and overseas experts to develop new seats and cabin furniture that will be fitted into existing and new aircraft.

As part of its fleet renewal, the airline had rights to take up to 20 Dreamliners, some of which could be 787-9 planes at a total list price of $4.2 billion, although the airline will get a substantial discount on that.

New York flights would give the airline even greater penetration into the US eastern seaboard. Late last year it began flying non-stop to Chicago three times a week and will increase this to five times a week from November to meet strong demand.


IAH and ORD have both been really successful, so NYC is a matter of when not if but what's not talked about here is, what next after NYC

Yeah mostly on an iPhone so not so simple. Thanks
59 types. 41 countries. 24 airlines.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1158
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:21 am

Zkpilot wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Article in NZHerald today saying that NZ is seriously considering NY with existing 789 possibly as soon as next year. Unfortunately article is behind paywall (anyone know a workaround for NZH paywall?)


It's pretty easy. On a desktop, view the article and right click on any of the text and click "Inspect".

It'll open up another window or it may be docked on the bottom or right of your browser. undock it, it's easier. This will show the HTML but in a better format than viewing the page source. If you right clicked on the article (the part you can see) then it should jump to this section of the HTML.

just expand the <p> tags to read it, it's annoying but you can see what's there. There's nothing groundbreaking in it. Not worth paying for anyway.

Here's a couple of important lines

The airline has been working with frequent fliers and overseas experts to develop new seats and cabin furniture that will be fitted into existing and new aircraft.

As part of its fleet renewal, the airline had rights to take up to 20 Dreamliners, some of which could be 787-9 planes at a total list price of $4.2 billion, although the airline will get a substantial discount on that.

New York flights would give the airline even greater penetration into the US eastern seaboard. Late last year it began flying non-stop to Chicago three times a week and will increase this to five times a week from November to meet strong demand.


IAH and ORD have both been really successful, so NYC is a matter of when not if but what's not talked about here is, what next after NYC

Yeah mostly on an iPhone so not so simple. Thanks


I normally am as well.

But, I've sent you a PM with the full article. I don't think we're allowed to post it here.
 
YYZORD
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:27 am

if NYC is likely with the 789, then I assume that YYZ is also possible too. Can't they serve NYC with a tech stop through YVR like CX did for the past 24 years?
 
NZ6
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Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:57 am

YYZORD wrote:
Can't they serve NYC with a tech stop through YVR like CX did for the past 24 years?


While it’s technically possible, not many customers would actually be flying onwards from YVR.

Given the second sector is a crew change, additional landing fees, terminal services etc also a top up on fuel to get airborne again it’s a heap of additional cost where you’re not actually charging customers like a second sector.

I mean, let’s say it’s $1,000 AKL-YVR and a stand alone ticket YVR-NYC is $500, the airlines don’t charge $1,500 for the through fare. It’s likely to be $1,200.

That aside, the plan behind NYC working is making NZ as a destination more accessible by a direct flight.

People on the east Coast will make their way to NYC via multiple means then get on a plan and on a single leg be at their destination. To open a transit in YVR, people in Baltimore, Philli, Washington etc May opt for a domestic leg via LAX, ORD, IAH, SFO or YVR using points or getting a cheap fare.

QF do this but they feed their NYC flight in LAX by BNE and multiple SYD and MEL flights.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4296
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:28 am

YYZORD wrote:
if NYC is likely with the 789, then I assume that YYZ is also possible too.

Indeed. I totally see YYZ in the works for NZ, after NYC. YYZ makes more sense than IAD, BOS, etc.

Cheers,

C.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1437
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:53 am

Interesting that CX is just now giving up YVR-NYC - probably for all the same reasons that NZ6 suggests that NZ wouldn't do it. And though I'm the first to advocate for strategic exceptions to the "no new one-stop services" strategy, I think this one would be commercial suicide.

My back-of-envelope analysis suggests that with the new destinations added recently, NZ really doesn't have much spare WB capacity in forthcoming summer seasons without a new aircraft order. Perhaps OKT will be around longer as others have suggested if EWR is commenced sooner rather than later (though not for EWR itself).

I think it would be a useful step for NZ to get first-mover advantage over QF on one-stop services to EWR from SYD, BNE, MEL, OOL, ADL and PER before Project Sunrise - especially if there is a delay to PS and a real chance to get well-established in the market first.
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DavidByrne
Posts: 1437
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:57 am

planemanofnz wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
if NYC is likely with the 789, then I assume that YYZ is also possible too.

Indeed. I totally see YYZ in the works for NZ, after NYC. YYZ makes more sense than IAD, BOS, etc

Was interested to note a few months back, around the time of the 787-10 order, the first hints I'd heard in a public statement by NZ that YYZ was indeed on their radar.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
jimmyah
Posts: 51
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:26 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Interesting that CX is just now giving up YVR-NYC - probably for all the same reasons that NZ6 suggests that NZ wouldn't do it. And though I'm the first to advocate for strategic exceptions to the "no new one-stop services" strategy, I think this one would be commercial suicide.

My back-of-envelope analysis suggests that with the new destinations added recently, NZ really doesn't have much spare WB capacity in forthcoming summer seasons without a new aircraft order. Perhaps OKT will be around longer as others have suggested if EWR is commenced sooner rather than later (though not for EWR itself).

I think it would be a useful step for NZ to get first-mover advantage over QF on one-stop services to EWR from SYD, BNE, MEL, OOL, ADL and PER before Project Sunrise - especially if there is a delay to PS and a real chance to get well-established in the market first.



I think CX offer direct flights to NYC as well as the YVR connection so it really wasn't worth their time.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:53 am

jimmyah wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Interesting that CX is just now giving up YVR-NYC - probably for all the same reasons that NZ6 suggests that NZ wouldn't do it. And though I'm the first to advocate for strategic exceptions to the "no new one-stop services" strategy, I think this one would be commercial suicide.

My back-of-envelope analysis suggests that with the new destinations added recently, NZ really doesn't have much spare WB capacity in forthcoming summer seasons without a new aircraft order. Perhaps OKT will be around longer as others have suggested if EWR is commenced sooner rather than later (though not for EWR itself).

I think it would be a useful step for NZ to get first-mover advantage over QF on one-stop services to EWR from SYD, BNE, MEL, OOL, ADL and PER before Project Sunrise - especially if there is a delay to PS and a real chance to get well-established in the market first.



I think CX offer direct flights to NYC as well as the YVR connection so it really wasn't worth their time.


CX first JFK service was via YVR in 1996, non stops started in 2002 on A346s and were recently 3x daily non stop HKG-JFK 77Ws and daily A359 to EWR. So the YVR flight lasted 24 years, not a bad effort and have them a foot in the NYC market initially.

Anyway interesting topic but nothing to do with NZ and I agree absolutely no chance NZ would even consider YVR-EWR.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:55 am

DavidByrne wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
if NYC is likely with the 789, then I assume that YYZ is also possible too.

Indeed. I totally see YYZ in the works for NZ, after NYC. YYZ makes more sense than IAD, BOS, etc

Was interested to note a few months back, around the time of the 787-10 order, the first hints I'd heard in a public statement by NZ that YYZ was indeed on their radar.


I think it makes sense, YVR is going 789, with AC taking up the seasonal capacity increase, give it a few years and as YVR grows NZ can look to take some of the seasonal capacity and put it into YYZ a few times a week to start and grow from there.
 
tealnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:04 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
Article in NZHerald today saying that NZ is seriously considering NY with existing 789 possibly as soon as next year.

The marketing guys will be telling the front office that there's a big one-off opportunity if they can launch the new route as the America's Cup is getting under way. New York Yacht Club's new AC75 is getting headlines lately.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:15 pm

Having flown NZ back in July/August from Australia to the US and back, I was impressed by their Premium Economy product. Didn’t enjoy the substitute Eva plane as much, but service was good and the food was tasty.

Transiting through Houston was also far better than LAX, so I am very glad that both NZ and QF are broadening our their US networks to more than just the previous LAX focus.

tealnz wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Article in NZHerald today saying that NZ is seriously considering NY with existing 789 possibly as soon as next year.

The marketing guys will be telling the front office that there's a big one-off opportunity if they can launch the new route as the America's Cup is getting under way. New York Yacht Club's new AC75 is getting headlines lately.


I’m not sure the America’s Cup would really be big enough news to bother starting a route for it. The reality is that most in the world wouldn’t have a clue when it’s on tbh.
 
getluv
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:05 pm

DavidByrne wrote:

I think it would be a useful step for NZ to get first-mover advantage over QF on one-stop services to EWR from SYD, BNE, MEL, OOL, ADL and PER before Project Sunrise - especially if there is a delay to PS and a real chance to get well-established in the market first.


QF already offer one-step services to NYC from SYD, MEL and BNE.

AC, UA, AA, DL, CX, EK, QR, EY also offer one-stop options from some/all of those cities as well, and would still probably be a faster/cheaper option than NZ.

New Zealand is an attractive destination in its own right and NZ have a natural advantage. With the JV with UA, targeting "transit" traffic from Australia shouldn't be relied upon as a business case to commence EWR flights.
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DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:14 pm

getluv wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:

I think it would be a useful step for NZ to get first-mover advantage over QF on one-stop services to EWR from SYD, BNE, MEL, OOL, ADL and PER before Project Sunrise - especially if there is a delay to PS and a real chance to get well-established in the market first.


QF already offer one-step services to NYC from SYD, MEL and BNE.

AC, UA, AA, DL, CX, EK, QR, EY also offer one-stop options from some/all of those cities as well, and would still probably be a faster/cheaper option than NZ.

New Zealand is an attractive destination in its own right and NZ have a natural advantage. With the JV with UA, targeting "transit" traffic from Australia shouldn't be relied upon as a business case to commence EWR flights.

Duh - of course they already have one-stop services from SYD, MEL and BNE. Don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that! But when SYD-JFK starts up QF will drop LAX-JFK and then NZ will have an advantage (of sorts) in that there will be no en-route domestic-international transfer at SYD (for BNE and MEL traffic in the future) or LAX (for connecting traffic now), both of which are an impediment to a free-flowing journey. The American carriers also require an en route domestic-international transfer. None of the other options would be faster than a transfer via AKL, though - AKL is much closer to the GC routing (from MEL only AC via YVR comes close, though for BNE AC has a 450 mile advantage - via the Gulf the distances are well over 3,000 miles further). The connecting flights and NA departures at AKL are all focused on a very efficient early evening departure bank from AKL. Not sure how good AC's connections to NYC are.

Re cost - who can say what fares any carrier will offer a couple of years in the future? NZ does tend to be more expensive than many other carriers, but it's clear that for whatever reason this is not an impediment for the traffic it currently carries.

As to your last point, though, Australian connection traffic is very much part of NZ's current North American business strategy (some unattributed quotes have suggested that it amounts to more than a full WB aircraft each day). I can't believe that EWR will be any different and they would be foolhardy not to factor that into their analysis.
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NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:50 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Excellent news could see Air NZ reconfigure an existing 787 with less Economy seats similar layout of the Qantas 787 with 236. Which could reach NY comfortably even with diversion fuel taken into account. Say if they started New York in a year from now could be possible but might have to reduce existing flying to accomplish this eg not increase Chicago to 5 per week keeping it 3 per week or some other adjustment.


Most likely they will reconfigure 1-2 existing 789s, they could go with a code 2 existing 275 seater and block seats? More flexibility in the fleet that way so they can fly other long haul routes. I would say they will reduce capacity into LAX/SFO maybe 772s rather than 77Ws same for IAH.

Should they do NYC next year they will be taking an aircraft from another route, maybe OKT stays longer again?


Indeed very good points. Been hearing that they might keep OKT on longer. It has certainly been well useful for the business so far so could remain in the fleet permanently. Will allow for growth going into 2020. Wondering if by November we will see NZ announce the start date my guess is 1 December 20 with 3 789 flights per week AKL - EWR.
Also they may reduce LAX services to shift demand out East. There is a lot of variation of the NZ5/6 current frequencies as at daily in summer to as low as 3 per week in some short periods in the schedules.
When previously it was daily all year round. SFO drops from daily to 5 weekly also. Might be due to shifting demand trends. With NY coming soon could see more of the market changing.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:36 am

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Excellent news could see Air NZ reconfigure an existing 787 with less Economy seats similar layout of the Qantas 787 with 236. Which could reach NY comfortably even with diversion fuel taken into account. Say if they started New York in a year from now could be possible but might have to reduce existing flying to accomplish this eg not increase Chicago to 5 per week keeping it 3 per week or some other adjustment.


Most likely they will reconfigure 1-2 existing 789s, they could go with a code 2 existing 275 seater and block seats? More flexibility in the fleet that way so they can fly other long haul routes. I would say they will reduce capacity into LAX/SFO maybe 772s rather than 77Ws same for IAH.

Should they do NYC next year they will be taking an aircraft from another route, maybe OKT stays longer again?


Indeed very good points. Been hearing that they might keep OKT on longer. It has certainly been well useful for the business so far so could remain in the fleet permanently. Will allow for growth going into 2020. Wondering if by November we will see NZ announce the start date my guess is 1 December 20 with 3 789 flights per week AKL - EWR.
Also they may reduce LAX services to shift demand out East. There is a lot of variation of the NZ5/6 current frequencies as at daily in summer to as low as 3 per week in some short periods in the schedules.
When previously it was daily all year round. SFO drops from daily to 5 weekly also. Might be due to shifting demand trends. With NY coming soon could see more of the market changing.


OKT would probably be due a C check at some point next year, it’s staying till April now at least and will be fully used to LAX over NW. If they decide to keep it permanently it will undergo some sort of refit and a repaint id imagine.

LAX/SFO/IAH all had less flights over NS though SFO this year had UA operating 3 weekly under the JV so total 8 weekly between NZ/UA. IAH has used 77Ws only 4-5 weekly compared to 6-7 weekly 787/777 in 2018. LAX has been as you say as low as 10 weekly this year compared to mostly 14 weekly in previous years.

I would guess LAX/SFO have higher O&D so for now they will get the 77W more and IAH will stay daily in NW at least but maybe more 772s to allow a slight decrease in capacity there, how much traffic transfers via IAH? It’s obviously done really well on the whole. ORD I can’t see them dropping below 5 weekly at least in NW even with a possible EWR service.

Maybe in 2020/21 NE something like if they keep OKT

LAX x14 77W
SFO x7 77W plus a daily UA 78J
IAH x4 772 x3 77W
ORD x5 789 code 2
EWR x3 789 code 2



Maybe a UA SFO-CHC 788 seasonal could allow UA to use a smaller frame to AKL?

This is again where in future a 78J as a 77W replacement makes sense to me, slightly smaller but premium say 300 seats for a code 2 78J with 330 on a code 1 78J for Asia. And more UA seasonal flying to make up the difference. Then routes like DEN could be looked at.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:33 am

UA will be bringing in their 787-10 on SFO to AKL this summer. It has 32 less seats than the current 77W used on the route so they may be right sizing for the market. Agreed that in future the 7810 will be very useful for AIR NZ for North American routes.
The AKL to LAX does go to 15 per week peak season with the NZ18 included
 
aklrno
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:03 am

With all these new and continuing US flights does anyone know why NZ still does not support TSA Precheck?
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:31 am

backfiah wrote:
PA515 wrote:
GW54 wrote:
Raised by someone previously but Mt Cook ATR ZK-MVP seems to have been out of service for a long period of time. It's last flight was into HLZ and it's next service HLZ-CHC was cancelled. Assume it's not still in Hamilton and being a relatively new addition it wouldn't be on extended maintenance in CHC or NSN. Has it been damaged in some way?


That was me. It's been 62 days now and according to flightaware it has not left HLZ. There's an Air NZ hangar at HLZ that can take an ATR. I don't have the flightradar24 package that gives more than the last eight days, so unable to check if flightaware is correct.

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKMVP

PA515


According to flightradar24, its last flight was CHC-NSN on 9th July. All the ones after that show as cancelled on flightaware, too.


ZK-MVP was doing NZ5971 NSN-CHC tomorrow afternoon after 74 days in NSN, but that's just been cancelled.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-mvp

PA515
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:12 am

aklrno wrote:
With all these new and continuing US flights does anyone know why NZ still does not support TSA Precheck?


TSA Pre-check probably doesn't have much of an benefit to NZ, the bigger benefit would be for NZ,UA,AA,HA all to work together to getting US Customs Pre-Clearance up and running at AKL.

With most flights operating between 4-Midnight it should work out pretty well from an staff point of view e.g. should just be and an single daily shift of staff. With the USA flights already using Gate 15-18 it would be prefect to adding US Pre-Clearance. It would also be an benefit to those who an transit via AKL from Australia going onto the USA.

But then again AKL can't even get an simliar programme to US Pre-Clearance going for the Tasman, with the amount of AKL-Australia flights per day it would be more than justified to get an Australia Clearance setup in Auckland.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:16 am

PA515 wrote:
GW54 wrote:
Raised by someone previously but Mt Cook ATR ZK-MVP seems to have been out of service for a long period of time. It's last flight was into HLZ and it's next service HLZ-CHC was cancelled. Assume it's not still in Hamilton and being a relatively new addition it wouldn't be on extended maintenance in CHC or NSN. Has it been damaged in some way?


That was me. It's been 62 days now and according to flightaware it has not left HLZ. There's an Air NZ hangar at HLZ that can take an ATR. I don't have the flightradar24 package that gives more than the last eight days, so unable to check if flightaware is correct.

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKMVP

PA515


MVP is currently in NSN, where it was ferried ex HLZ. I won’t elaborate on the circumstances, but it should be back in the air Mon/Tues next week.
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NZ1
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NZ1
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:26 am

ZK-MZA, the next ATR for Mt Cook is due to leave TLS tomorrow night NZ time, and arrive into CHC next Friday evening. Flight for those following on FR24 will be SXI1944.
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getluv
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:06 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
getluv wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:

I think it would be a useful step for NZ to get first-mover advantage over QF on one-stop services to EWR from SYD, BNE, MEL, OOL, ADL and PER before Project Sunrise - especially if there is a delay to PS and a real chance to get well-established in the market first.


QF already offer one-step services to NYC from SYD, MEL and BNE.

AC, UA, AA, DL, CX, EK, QR, EY also offer one-stop options from some/all of those cities as well, and would still probably be a faster/cheaper option than NZ.

New Zealand is an attractive destination in its own right and NZ have a natural advantage. With the JV with UA, targeting "transit" traffic from Australia shouldn't be relied upon as a business case to commence EWR flights.

Duh - of course they already have one-stop services from SYD, MEL and BNE. Don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that! But when SYD-JFK starts up QF will drop LAX-JFK and then NZ will have an advantage (of sorts) in that there will be no en-route domestic-international transfer at SYD (for BNE and MEL traffic in the future) or LAX (for connecting traffic now), both of which are an impediment to a free-flowing journey. The American carriers also require an en route domestic-international transfer. None of the other options would be faster than a transfer via AKL, though - AKL is much closer to the GC routing (from MEL only AC via YVR comes close, though for BNE AC has a 450 mile advantage - via the Gulf the distances are well over 3,000 miles further). The connecting flights and NA departures at AKL are all focused on a very efficient early evening departure bank from AKL. Not sure how good AC's connections to NYC are.

Re cost - who can say what fares any carrier will offer a couple of years in the future? NZ does tend to be more expensive than many other carriers, but it's clear that for whatever reason this is not an impediment for the traffic it currently carries.

As to your last point, though, Australian connection traffic is very much part of NZ's current North American business strategy (some unattributed quotes have suggested that it amounts to more than a full WB aircraft each day). I can't believe that EWR will be any different and they would be foolhardy not to factor that into their analysis.


In Australia, NZ makes inroads in being the cheapest (besides the odd FJ flight) option to North America. Price conscious passengers are very open to flying an extra 12 hours each way to save AUD 30. NZ is definitely not the fastest option. Even if QF decides to drop the LAX-NYC tag it has many codeshare one-stop options for ex-BNE/MEL passengers who want to avoid the “domestic-international” change. Which by the way, is very overstated on this forum. I don’t think QF and NZ compete for the same type of passengers anyway.

Who can say what airfares will be offered in the future? No one. But there’s only so much you can do as the bottom feeder, especially when times get tough.
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DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:42 pm

getluv wrote:
In Australia, NZ makes inroads in being the cheapest (besides the odd FJ flight) option to North America. Price conscious passengers are very open to flying an extra 12 hours each way to save AUD 30. NZ is definitely not the fastest option. Even if QF decides to drop the LAX-NYC tag it has many codeshare one-stop options for ex-BNE/MEL passengers who want to avoid the “domestic-international” change. Which by the way, is very overstated on this forum. I don’t think QF and NZ compete for the same type of passengers anyway.

Who can say what airfares will be offered in the future? No one. But there’s only so much you can do as the bottom feeder, especially when times get tough.

Interesting that NZ is a "cheap" carrier out of Australia: as a regular but budget-conscious New Zealand-based traveller (I fund all my own travel) I very rarely end up on NZ. To Asia, QF is usually the cheapest from NZ. To the USA it's often VA (but given Trump's punishment on those who dare travel to Iran, the USA is out for the moment). To Europe it varies, but QR is often the cheapest.

OK - I concede that east coast cities to NYC via LAX are closer to the GC route than via AKL (though for MEL it's a mere 78 miles difference) - I really thought AKL would be closer to the GC. Struggling a little with doing this on my aged tablet on my hotel bed in Hanoi ATM! But all other things being equal this traveller would always avoid an en route domestic-international transfer when an international-international of similar length is possible - especially when bags have to be cleared through customs at an intermediate point - I loathe the double handling of bags and changing terminals en route. But each to their own . . . !
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NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:01 pm

Wānaka residents to take legal action against council over airport plans

A Wānaka residents' group will take legal action to fight plans to expand Wānaka Airport.

The Wānaka Stakeholders Group was set up this year to oppose plans to expand the airport and allow scheduled commercial jet flights.

Queenstown Airport Corporation (QAC) was granted a 100-year lease on the airport by owners Queenstown Lakes District Council and plans to operate a "dual airport model" to cope with demand at Queenstown Airport.

The Wānaka group has been fighting to learn more details of the lease agreement and plans for the future.

Chairman Michael Ross said on Thursday the group's 3000 members were disappointed to be seeking judicial review but felt they had no choice.

"The Upper Clutha community is deeply frustrated with the lack of transparency, absence of proper community consultation and wafer thin information provided by our local council and the QAC.

"We are deeply concerned at what they appear to be planning, and they are just not listening to what the community is saying."

They felt they had been "stone-walled" by the council and Queenstown Airport Corporation in their search for details

The group would have to raise funds to take the legal action against the council, an organisation that was meant to work with the community and not against it, he said.

"The irony of this should not be lost on the mayor or his team."


more:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indust ... port-plans

This is not looking good for any future commercial services out of Wanaka now. I expect the owners were not expecting this outcome.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:14 pm

Like rugby, only less competitive: how the key Australia-New Zealand market has changed

Growing, but undermined by changes
In 2019, over 10 million two-way seats are offered for sale between the two countries, up 11%, or 1 million, since 2014.

The past few years have been turbulent from both Emirates and AirAsia X ending their 5th freedom services across the sea. Emirates cut over one million seats and AirAsia X almost 300,000. Now, just Emirates’ daily Dubai-Sydney-Christchurch remains, operated by the A380. Since 2014, Qantas has focused the most on the country-pair, adding 50% more seats by 2019.

In 2018, New Zealand is by far the leading operator by offered seats, benefiting not just from strong P2P demand but crucially also easy onward connections, especially to North and South America. (In 2018, Sydney-Auckland-Buenos Aires was its top connecting route.)

Air New Zealand’s leading position by seats is partly from its use of wide-bodies, which provide 48% of its trans-Tasman seats against 30% with Qantas. Air New Zealand’s B777-300ERs and B787-9s tend to arrive into Auckland in the early morning from the Americas/Far East, and they’re then flown during the day to and from Australia, before their long-haul overnight services. Air New Zealand’s use of them is therefore partly for asset utilisation and demand. The gap between Air New Zealand and Qantas closes significantly if based on frequency.

Unsurprisingly, over seven in ten seats are controlled by just two groups: Air New Zealand and Qantas (Qantas and Jetstar). Yet Jetstar has barely grown in this market, while its parent – with higher costs and a greater need for higher yields – has, which partially shows the nature of the gap that materialised. Jetstar primarily operates thinner, leisure-focused routes deemed less suitable for Qantas, but also on some core routes, such as Sydney and Melbourne to Auckland, especially at off-peak times. This includes an overnight service from Melbourne.

Average fares on Sydney-Auckland, the thickest route between the countries, demonstrates this well, with the premium achieved by Qantas explaining its preference for frequency. (Fares are one-way, in USD, for local passengers only, and exclude taxes, any fuel surcharge and ancillaries, and are averaged across all cabins.)


The story has some interesting points raised and some good graphs and maps that I can't attach on here. Lots of underserved routes with the pax of each. The Canberra to Auckland market is not that big only 19,000 can see why no airline has started it yet and not the biggest unserved route on the list, the ADL to CHC is.
See more here:
https://www.anna.aero/2019/09/20/like-r ... ent-167772
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:38 am

NZ516 wrote:


Two things I'll raise on this....

You can see that Air NZ and the Qantas group are pretty equal when we combine the QF & JQ data. It also highlights how far behind the game VA is in comparison.

- Is VA being caught stuck between low cost and full service? - is the market perception that they're a premium brand yet.
- Does this highlight anything about NZ's seats to suit approach being able to work with a seat only proposition and also a full service, even premium product under the same identity?


Image
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:08 am

NZ516 wrote:
Wānaka residents to take legal action against council over airport plans

A Wānaka residents' group will take legal action to fight plans to expand Wānaka Airport.

The Wānaka Stakeholders Group was set up this year to oppose plans to expand the airport and allow scheduled commercial jet flights.

Queenstown Airport Corporation (QAC) was granted a 100-year lease on the airport by owners Queenstown Lakes District Council and plans to operate a "dual airport model" to cope with demand at Queenstown Airport.

The Wānaka group has been fighting to learn more details of the lease agreement and plans for the future.

Chairman Michael Ross said on Thursday the group's 3000 members were disappointed to be seeking judicial review but felt they had no choice.

"The Upper Clutha community is deeply frustrated with the lack of transparency, absence of proper community consultation and wafer thin information provided by our local council and the QAC.

"We are deeply concerned at what they appear to be planning, and they are just not listening to what the community is saying."

They felt they had been "stone-walled" by the council and Queenstown Airport Corporation in their search for details

The group would have to raise funds to take the legal action against the council, an organisation that was meant to work with the community and not against it, he said.

"The irony of this should not be lost on the mayor or his team."


more:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indust ... port-plans

This is not looking good for any future commercial services out of Wanaka now. I expect the owners were not expecting this outcome.

Doesn’t mean s#%t to put it bluntly. They don’t have a leg to stand on and the needs of the majority of residents + businesses far outweighs a handful of grumpy home owners who are quite simply being NIMBYs. The airport is actually quite a ways out of town. I for one can’t wait for it to expand and start operations.
59 types. 41 countries. 24 airlines.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:50 am

Zkpilot wrote:
Doesn’t mean s#%t to put it bluntly. They don’t have a leg to stand on and the needs of the majority of residents + businesses far outweighs a handful of grumpy home owners who are quite simply being NIMBYs. The airport is actually quite a ways out of town. I for one can’t wait for it to expand and start operations.


I have an issue with not in my backyard approach yet the community of Wanaka will still very much welcoming to tourist dollar into their economy.
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