greenair727
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:54 am

alasizon wrote:
For December:
JFK-CLE is suspended for the slot waiver period.
JFK-LAS looks like it operates 1x daily except during the slot waiver period.
JFK-LAX operates 12x except during the slot waiver period.
JFK-MIA still operates 8x except during the slot waiver period.
JFK-PHL only operates during the slot waiver period, it doesn't operate in the 1H
JFK-PIT looks like it just wasn't put up for sale in December properly to start with; YOY it is flat and I can't see them trying to actually fly it as often as was OFS.
JFK-RDU is an actual cut
JFK-RIC is an actual cut
JFK-SAN comes back in the holiday period daily
JFK-YUL cuts a frequency and doesn't operate during the slot waiver period
JFK-YYZ still operates 2x except the slot waiver period.


Why does JFK have a slot waiver period?
 
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RWA380
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:20 am

Midwestindy wrote:

RWA380 wrote:
November & December are the worst months for corporate travel & business oriented routes, like this loose traffic while employees take holiday time off & big events rarely happen in these months for the same reason. You'll notice in January they all but one flight, go right back to where they are before the holidays & that is because it's January & freezing outside. LOL!


Complete opposite actually, slowest months for business travel are summer(obviously excluding the week or so surrounding Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Years). Busiest months for business travel are in the fall.

November & December & January fall off is more about leisure travel being low, with people choosing to use discretionary spending on Christmas/Black Friday/VFR/& Winter Break Vacations. Corporate travel is again very steady throughout the year, with the exceptions of holiday seasons and summer break.

https://www.concur.com/newsroom/article ... ess-travel



I suppose it may differ from industry to industry, however in my decades as a VIP / International Agent at American Express, all of our accounts died off, every year, about mid November, right before then was a push to get yearly projects completed & we were very busy in the fall. There are no major National conferences in early half of December for the reason, people are out of the office.

Indeed Summer saw a small dip, due to the family vacations, but once we were in the week before Thanksgiving it died off dramatically. We used to regularly send people home early as our normally busy desks were having groups of people doing ticket reconciliations in the partially used tickets file, which we had nearly 100k in unused or partially used tickets. We were always encouraged to take off at the holidays.

Not looking to argue, but I wanted to explain my comments are based upon personal experiences working for the major corporate travel vendor in the country & around the world.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
AA AC AQ BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WN WP YS 8M
 
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mikegigs
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:45 pm

Wow - not sure if anyone else saw (I didn't see it mentioned in this thread), but Enilria and his forum was referenced in an article on The Points Guy this week: https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... tions-jfk/

The article discusses AA's cuts at JFK this winter.

I know people often speculate that reporters or airline workers look through threads here, but here's some solid proof. Congrats Enrilia!
Airports: BOS, JAX, JFK, EWR, LGA, CVG, ATL, CLT, DCA, IAD, STT, PVD, ALB, MCO
Aircraft: 733, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 717, A319, A320, MD-88, E190, E175, E145, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, Q400
Airlines: B6, CO, DL, US, NW, WN, DH
...a good start but a long way to go!
 
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enilria
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:30 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
enilria wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
Does the LGA perimeter rule ever sunset? Seems like most old relecs of the over regulated aviation days have been slowly fallen away. Any chance this rule goes?

It's all about politics. It probably comes down to whether DL wants it to go away and how much UA would try to stop it.

Why would UA want to stop it? UA would love to run PS out of LGA.

That's easy. UA would get demolished at LGA. DL has a hub there. Right now UA at EWR and AA/DL/B6 at JFK basically control all transcon from NYC point of sale. UA has EWR sewed up. They are unlikely to trade that near monopoly for the possibility of successfully competing at LGA against a hub carrier. UA would be at a huge disadvantage to DL with DL able to connect beyond LGA.
 
Chugach
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:34 pm

oosnowrat wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
DL it seems is finally giving up on SE Alaska. Didn’t they even drop to RJ’s last summer?


DL/OO service to SE AK started with CR7s. JNU was upgauged to 738s, SIT and KTN to E75s.


Sort of. JNU re-started as a summer seasonal 752, mostly as a middle finger to AS. Then it went to 738 in summer; the winter-only CR7 experiment in to JNU went...poorly.

DL now has the same navigational capability into JNU that AS has.

Someone better versed in DL ops than I probably knows whether or not DL could send the E75 into JNU in the winter and still use the DL mainline approach and departure procedures. If they can, I wouldn’t be surprised if they look at JNU year-round again. It’s a business market from SEA that is very useful to have.
 
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enilria
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:34 pm

mikegigs wrote:
Wow - not sure if anyone else saw (I didn't see it mentioned in this thread), but Enilria and his forum was referenced in an article on The Points Guy this week: https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... tions-jfk/

The article discusses AA's cuts at JFK this winter.

I know people often speculate that reporters or airline workers look through threads here, but here's some solid proof. Congrats Enrilia!

Famous or infamous. LOL. Oh, I know the airline execs read this thread. I get PMs from them.
 
capitalflyer
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:42 pm

tphuang wrote:
N717TW wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Shuttle markets get smaller and smaller. NOV now seeing big cuts.
*AA BOS-DCA NOV 13>10[13] DEC 14>10[10] JAN 14>13[12]
AA BOS-DFW DEC 8>6[6]
*AA BOS-JFK NOV 3>1.7[3] DEC 6>2[3]
*AA BOS-LGA NOV 10>8[10] DEC 12>8[8] JAN 12>11[10]
AA BOS-MIA NOV 6>5[6]
AA BOS-ORD NOV 8>7[8] DEC 9>6[7]

AA continues to pull back in Boston. I am most surprised that they’ll be down to 6 frequencies per day on BOS-ORD. While their plane gauge is certainly (much) larger, that is only 1 or 2 more frequencies per day than DL’s service, launching at the end of September.

The reductions to DCA are also notable in light of DL launching that service as well.


I'm sorta with you on AA cutting BOS. The ORD frequencies are the most interesting. UA is currently listing 8 nonstops (9 on some peak days) for sale throughout Nov. Half of them on 739s. I can't recall a time when UA had more flights and more seats between Logan and O'Hare than AA....we'd probably have to go back to the old DC-8/DC-10 days and even then AA was running their own DC-10s between BOS and ORD.

Overall, I read that:

In Nov, AA will operate 8 fewer flights per day from Logan than they did in Nov 2018 and 8 fewer than they originally planed.
In Dec, AA will operate 4 fewer flights per day than in Dec 2018 but a whopping 15 fewer than planned. Maybe AA's scheduling department forgot about the seasonal dip in biz travel in early Dec and then during Christmas?!!?

Drawing down frequency 60 days out tells me that either or both advance bookings or the PRASM on those advanced bookings aren't at the level they want and AA revenue mgmt has decided to let DL/B6 take the lower yielding fares while they chase revenue elsewhere. That's all consistent with the tea leaves around BOS vis-a-vis American.


Keep in mind as you watch this that AA will be easily the market leader in yield in all of these markets while flying mainline. Maybe with the exception of ORD, where they are going to be tied with UA. with the exception of DCA, B6 will be behind them on all these routes while operating the relatively high cost aircraft in E90. DL will be getting even lower yield with the high cost RJ. AA is not in these market to lose money. It will continue to dominant BOS to its major hubs.

I think a lot of these nov/dec cuts are max related. The jan/feb are simply cut back to previous year levels, so I don't consider those to be cuts.


It would make sense if eventually a couple of frequencies on DCA-BOS shuttle are cut. I think these are mainly going to 319 once the 190 is phased out. That will give more seats on the route which logically might lead to may be two fewer flights or so during middle of the day. If they want to maintain these frequencies no doubt they will look to YX to fill a couple mid day frequencies.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:48 pm

enilria wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
enilria wrote:
It's all about politics. It probably comes down to whether DL wants it to go away and how much UA would try to stop it.

Why would UA want to stop it? UA would love to run PS out of LGA.

That's easy. UA would get demolished at LGA. DL has a hub there. Right now UA at EWR and AA/DL/B6 at JFK basically control all transcon from NYC point of sale. UA has EWR sewed up. They are unlikely to trade that near monopoly for the possibility of successfully competing at LGA against a hub carrier. UA would be at a huge disadvantage to DL with DL able to connect beyond LGA.

How would that be any different than UA at JFK, which they have supposedly stated was a mistake to leave? UA would still have EWR sewed up and be able to offer PS to their premium customers in SFO and LAX to New York's preferred airport in addition to EWR. Sure, they aren't going to "win" LGA, but they aren't winning LGA now. Do the handful of new out of perimeter routes at LGA really hurt UA that much at EWR? Would DL really have that many beyond LGA connections considering the geography of LGA and the cuts they would have to make to fund the new beyond perimeter routes. I realize we are getting quite off topic and this is all theoretical because it will never happen, but I find the thought experiment fascinating.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:54 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
enilria wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
Why would UA want to stop it? UA would love to run PS out of LGA.

That's easy. UA would get demolished at LGA. DL has a hub there. Right now UA at EWR and AA/DL/B6 at JFK basically control all transcon from NYC point of sale. UA has EWR sewed up. They are unlikely to trade that near monopoly for the possibility of successfully competing at LGA against a hub carrier. UA would be at a huge disadvantage to DL with DL able to connect beyond LGA.

How would that be any different than UA at JFK, which they have supposedly stated was a mistake to leave? UA would still have EWR sewed up and be able to offer PS to their premium customers in SFO and LAX to New York's preferred airport in addition to EWR. Sure, they aren't going to "win" LGA, but they aren't winning LGA now. Do the handful of new out of perimeter routes at LGA really hurt UA that much at EWR? Would DL really have that many beyond LGA connections considering the geography of LGA and the cuts they would have to make to fund the new beyond perimeter routes. I realize we are getting quite off topic and this is all theoretical because it will never happen, but I find the thought experiment fascinating.



It would be interesting to see what carriers would do. One party Enilria left off was the Port Authority. Part of the reason for the rule is to ensure that the other airports remain healthy as well. There's a lot that couldn't transfer to LGA but if the Transcons migrated for the most part, that would hurt JFK quite a bit and they don't want that.
 
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tlecam
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:11 pm

mikegigs wrote:
Wow - not sure if anyone else saw (I didn't see it mentioned in this thread), but Enilria and his forum was referenced in an article on The Points Guy this week: https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... tions-jfk/

The article discusses AA's cuts at JFK this winter.

I know people often speculate that reporters or airline workers look through threads here, but here's some solid proof. Congrats Enrilia!

I saw that! Enilria - you should be getting paid somehow!
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:40 pm

enilria wrote:
mikegigs wrote:
Wow - not sure if anyone else saw (I didn't see it mentioned in this thread), but Enilria and his forum was referenced in an article on The Points Guy this week: https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... tions-jfk/

The article discusses AA's cuts at JFK this winter.

I know people often speculate that reporters or airline workers look through threads here, but here's some solid proof. Congrats Enrilia!

Famous or infamous. LOL. Oh, I know the airline execs read this thread. I get PMs from them.


Kind of interesting how many people within the industry follow a.net, I can't believe how many times I have been speaking to people in the industry and they have brought up (unprompted) how they read a.net or the other aviation forum
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:46 am

The DL FLL-NAS route appears to be running much of the Christmas period. It's likely a holiday ad which has either cruise passengers or something similar in mind.

B6 flies this route four or five times daily. Post-Dorian we'll see if the Bahamian economy economy is still in the shape to sustain all that service but if DL does want to make a go on this route to annoy B6 they probably will be able to. WN and UP also fly it, while AA and UP service NAS from MIA.
 
oosnowrat
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:50 am

Chugach wrote:
oosnowrat wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
DL it seems is finally giving up on SE Alaska. Didn’t they even drop to RJ’s last summer?


DL/OO service to SE AK started with CR7s. JNU was upgauged to 738s, SIT and KTN to E75s.


Sort of. JNU re-started as a summer seasonal 752, mostly as a middle finger to AS. Then it went to 738 in summer; the winter-only CR7 experiment in to JNU went...poorly.

DL now has the same navigational capability into JNU that AS has.

Someone better versed in DL ops than I probably knows whether or not DL could send the E75 into JNU in the winter and still use the DL mainline approach and departure procedures. If they can, I wouldn’t be surprised if they look at JNU year-round again. It’s a business market from SEA that is very useful to have.


I stand corrected. I don't know much about RNP technicalities, but don't the aircraft need certain upgrades and the pilots specific training? QX has all that for their ops into SUN, but OO doesn't.
 
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enilria
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:05 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
enilria wrote:
mikegigs wrote:
Wow - not sure if anyone else saw (I didn't see it mentioned in this thread), but Enilria and his forum was referenced in an article on The Points Guy this week: https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... tions-jfk/

The article discusses AA's cuts at JFK this winter.

I know people often speculate that reporters or airline workers look through threads here, but here's some solid proof. Congrats Enrilia!

Famous or infamous. LOL. Oh, I know the airline execs read this thread. I get PMs from them.


Kind of interesting how many people within the industry follow a.net, I can't believe how many times I have been speaking to people in the industry and they have brought up (unprompted) how they read a.net or the other aviation forum

The ones who read here are the ones who seem aware of what is going on around them!
 
grbauc
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:45 am

Rdh3e wrote:
grbauc wrote:

I agree 100% with you. AA plan is short sighted.


So many people complaining about JFK cuts and no one addressing the fact that they are in a permanent and unaddressable #3 spot due to slots and airspace. How do you propose they get to profitability? It seems you all want a return to status quo where AA lost money just because "the market is important" with no vision of how that pays off anytime in the future.

Anyone care to address this hole in the AA NYC fantasy?



I don't think it need to be profitable. They Dropped the ball years ago and need to keep a certain amount of presences for there network. DL and B6 were in always in the position there in now. Chances and a plan are what's needed. There also squandering away US's LGA position. Somebody with a new vision at AA is needed. Put DL in AA shoes what would they be doing? SEA before the DL build up people would of laughed us out of the forum if we prepossessed that DL build a hub there. They carved a niche out of SEA with AS still there. Take a vision and well some outside thinking and forward thinking rather then short term and much of wall-street has short-timers disease . DP has done it all get some new blood in AA or poach more of the DL plan they have it together.

Im a Aviation and a HP/US/AA fan and delta admirer.
 
freakyrat
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:49 pm

dangrad wrote:
XWA?

Typo? XNA maybe?

UA DEN-XWA OCT 0>3[0] NOV 0>3[0] DEC 0>3[0] JAN 0>3[0] FEB 0>3[0] MAR 0>3[0] APR 0>3[0] MAY 0>3[0] JUN 0>3[0]


Nope XWA Brand new airport being built in Williston, ND. Williston Basin International Airport. It is suppose to open October 10th.

http://www.xwaproject.com

https://www.facebook.com/xwaproject/
 
YellowJ
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:19 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

B6 flies this route four or five times daily. Post-Dorian we'll see if the Bahamian economy economy is still in the shape to sustain all that service but if DL does want to make a go on this route to annoy B6 they probably will be able to. WN and UP also fly it, while AA and UP service NAS from MIA.


You do realize that a) NAS was unaffected by Dorian and b) Florida is the largest O&D market from the Bahamas. Adding a additional 110 seats a day, during winter is not going to do anything.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:29 pm

YellowJ wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

B6 flies this route four or five times daily. Post-Dorian we'll see if the Bahamian economy economy is still in the shape to sustain all that service but if DL does want to make a go on this route to annoy B6 they probably will be able to. WN and UP also fly it, while AA and UP service NAS from MIA.


You do realize that a) NAS was unaffected by Dorian and b) Florida is the largest O&D market from the Bahamas. Adding a additional 110 seats a day, during winter is not going to do anything.


Nassau was not "unaffected" by Dorian. They got sustained Hurricane force winds (more or less Cat 1) for a while and some higher gusts. Unless unaffected is a relative term compared to Grand Bahama, then I agree. I think the Bahamian economy is going to need people to visit more than ever now so hopefully we see more flights to Nassau in the near future.
 
N649DL
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:37 pm

redzeppelin wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Also a lot more capacity on the EWR- SLC route from DL and UA. Anything to do with the new terminal?

First phase of the new terminal is still a year away, so that's not likely.
I am curious to see how DL's SLC operation will change with the new facility, but doubt it will be too drastic in the near term.


EWR-SLC on DL has been mostly 2x daily during the summer months, now it seems to be doing so most of the year. There was a big shift in capacity back in 2017 when they upgraded the route from an A320 to a 737-900ER.
 
YellowJ
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:55 am

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
YellowJ wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

B6 flies this route four or five times daily. Post-Dorian we'll see if the Bahamian economy economy is still in the shape to sustain all that service but if DL does want to make a go on this route to annoy B6 they probably will be able to. WN and UP also fly it, while AA and UP service NAS from MIA.


You do realize that a) NAS was unaffected by Dorian and b) Florida is the largest O&D market from the Bahamas. Adding a additional 110 seats a day, during winter is not going to do anything.


Nassau was not "unaffected" by Dorian. They got sustained Hurricane force winds (more or less Cat 1) for a while and some higher gusts. Unless unaffected is a relative term compared to Grand Bahama, then I agree. I think the Bahamian economy is going to need people to visit more than ever now so hopefully we see more flights to Nassau in the near future.


Nassau was unaffected; completely. Other than some mild road flooding in low areas that dried out with-in a day, the only thing we had was intermittent rain and moderate wind, with gusts up to 35mph. We did NOT get hurricane force winds; that is simply incorrect. Hell, the airport never closed. I didn't even bother putting down the hurricane shutters. As a rule, hurricane force winds rarely extend 25 miles beyond the eyewall. Grand Bahama & Abaco alone do not constitute the Bahamian economy. Bahamians will still flock to Florida; even more so in the coming months now to ship back building supplies.
 
lat41
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:46 pm

I don't think it need to be profitable. They Dropped the ball years ago and need to keep a certain amount of presences for there network. DL and B6 were in always in the position there in now. Chances and a plan are what's needed. There also squandering away US's LGA position. Somebody with a new vision at AA is needed. Put DL in AA shoes what would they be doing? SEA before the DL build up people would of laughed us out of the forum if we prepossessed that DL build a hub there. They carved a niche out of SEA with AS still there. Take a vision and well some outside thinking and forward thinking rather then short term and much of wall-street has short-timers disease . DP has done it all get some new blood in AA or poach more of the DL plan they have it together.

Im a Aviation and a HP/US/AA fan and delta admirer.[/quote]
A spelling and grammar mess
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:11 pm

YellowJ wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
YellowJ wrote:

You do realize that a) NAS was unaffected by Dorian and b) Florida is the largest O&D market from the Bahamas. Adding a additional 110 seats a day, during winter is not going to do anything.


Nassau was not "unaffected" by Dorian. They got sustained Hurricane force winds (more or less Cat 1) for a while and some higher gusts. Unless unaffected is a relative term compared to Grand Bahama, then I agree. I think the Bahamian economy is going to need people to visit more than ever now so hopefully we see more flights to Nassau in the near future.


Nassau was unaffected; completely. Other than some mild road flooding in low areas that dried out with-in a day, the only thing we had was intermittent rain and moderate wind, with gusts up to 35mph. We did NOT get hurricane force winds; that is simply incorrect. Hell, the airport never closed. I didn't even bother putting down the hurricane shutters. As a rule, hurricane force winds rarely extend 25 miles beyond the eyewall. Grand Bahama & Abaco alone do not constitute the Bahamian economy. Bahamians will still flock to Florida; even more so in the coming months now to ship back building supplies.


My concern is that people will see the images on television and assume that ALL of the Bahamas looks like the places that were most affected by the hurricane, and will choose another destination for their vacations, which would really hurt the Bahamian economy just when it needs the most help. This has happened in the aftermath of other natural disasters.

I've been really impressed with the kindness of Bahamian people, and I want people to continue visiting the areas in the Bahamas that were undamaged by the hurricane so the hospitality industry in the undamaged parts of the Bahamas remains strong, so I hope my concerns are unfounded......
 
YellowJ
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:59 am

Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:15 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
YellowJ wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

Nassau was not "unaffected" by Dorian. They got sustained Hurricane force winds (more or less Cat 1) for a while and some higher gusts. Unless unaffected is a relative term compared to Grand Bahama, then I agree. I think the Bahamian economy is going to need people to visit more than ever now so hopefully we see more flights to Nassau in the near future.


Nassau was unaffected; completely. Other than some mild road flooding in low areas that dried out with-in a day, the only thing we had was intermittent rain and moderate wind, with gusts up to 35mph. We did NOT get hurricane force winds; that is simply incorrect. Hell, the airport never closed. I didn't even bother putting down the hurricane shutters. As a rule, hurricane force winds rarely extend 25 miles beyond the eyewall. Grand Bahama & Abaco alone do not constitute the Bahamian economy. Bahamians will still flock to Florida; even more so in the coming months now to ship back building supplies.


My concern is that people will see the images on television and assume that ALL of the Bahamas looks like the places that were most affected by the hurricane, and will choose another destination for their vacations, which would really hurt the Bahamian economy just when it needs the most help. This has happened in the aftermath of other natural disasters.

I've been really impressed with the kindness of Bahamian people, and I want people to continue visiting the areas in the Bahamas that were undamaged by the hurricane so the hospitality industry in the undamaged parts of the Bahamas remains strong, so I hope my concerns are unfounded......


That is a valid point and based on my experience after multiple hurricanes, is it fortunately doesn't result in too many lost bookings, once people realize there are multiple islands. Doubly true, when Nassau is unaffected as most people associate Nassau as the face of the Bahamas. The media has now been distinctly identifying the individual islands affected which helps as well.
 
ScottB
Posts: 6640
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:12 pm

tlecam wrote:
Shuttle markets get smaller and smaller. NOV now seeing big cuts.


Both AA and DL slash the Shuttle markets for the non-peak days over Thanksgiving and the couple of weeks around Christmas and New Year's. BOS-LGA on DL is 4x for a couple of weeks at the end of December/start of January. There's almost zero business travel and the leisure passengers are going to drive/take Amtrak/take the bus.

cledaybuck wrote:
UA would still have EWR sewed up and be able to offer PS to their premium customers in SFO and LAX to New York's preferred airport in addition to EWR. Sure, they aren't going to "win" LGA, but they aren't winning LGA now.


Trying to offer p.s. to both LAX and SFO would be problematic for UA simply because they have relatively few slots at LGA. Sure, it'd be a no-brainer to drop the 5x daily to CLE and 4x daily to IAD, but they'd have to steal some slots from LGA-ORD/IAH/DEN in order to be competitive with what would very likely be 8-10x daily on both routes from DL & AA.

tphuang wrote:
Here is what I'm sure everyone at AA management knows, but won't tell their NYC crew. All those high value customers have moved to DL. They aren't coming back unless DL starts cutting routes or product. And that clearly isn't happening. Without those ff, DL will continue to eat their lunch in NYC.


That's the real problem with the continuing cuts at NYC, and as they keep cutting, more and more customers will look elsewhere. It eventually affects the cash-cow routes like JFK-LHR/LAX/SFO as some customers in those markets will move to carriers with more comprehensive route networks from NYC. It's basically a redux of how the DL hub at DFW eventually failed except with more congestion and slots.

grbauc wrote:
DL and B6 were in always in the position there in now. Chances and a plan are what's needed. There also squandering away US's LGA position.


DL's position at LGA is relatively new. The slot swap between DL and US is how DL was able to build up their leading position in NYC east of the Hudson. US management had no idea how to effectively use their large portfolio of LGA slots and what was at the time the nicest terminal at LGA by a mile. They were running dumb crap like Saabs and Dashes to ITH, ALB, BDL, and PVD, not to mention 20-odd daily to PHL at one point. DL took over most of that terminal, connected their existing terminal to it with a bridge, and started flying to places New Yorkers actually wanted to fly to! And they also built new gates at JFK even if that T4B concourse is a long hike. DL invested money in NYC and was willing to eat some losses to build the presence they enjoy today.

I can't blame DoUgIe that much because it was a decent deal for US at the time. They were bleeding cash at LGA because of their crappy route choices and printing money at DCA. DL was willing to hand them an even stronger market position at DCA in exchange for LGA assets which had been an albatross around their neck. Of course, it was also a clear example of how much better the Delta team was better at long-term planning.

AA's current position at LGA is thanks mostly to pmAA's assets. US had dropped everything from LGA apart from BOS/CLT/DCA/PHL/PIT with the slot swap.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1535
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:18 pm

ScottB wrote:
Trying to offer p.s. to both LAX and SFO would be problematic for UA simply because they have relatively few slots at LGA. Sure, it'd be a no-brainer to drop the 5x daily to CLE and 4x daily to IAD, but they'd have to steal some slots from LGA-ORD/IAH/DEN in order to be competitive with what would very likely be 8-10x daily on both routes from DL & AA.
Yes. The amount of connecting traffic would most likely decrease though. Going from CLE-5, IAD-4, IAH-8, ORD-17, DEN-7 to something like IAH-5, ORD-14, DEN-5, LAX-9, SFO-8 looks doable to me, give or take a frequency here or there.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: OAG Changes 9/1/2019:AS Massive Changes, Drops SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL,SFO-ABQ/MCI,LAXPHL,BURSJC;AA Adds FAI-DFW

Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:45 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
YellowJ wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

Nassau was not "unaffected" by Dorian. They got sustained Hurricane force winds (more or less Cat 1) for a while and some higher gusts. Unless unaffected is a relative term compared to Grand Bahama, then I agree. I think the Bahamian economy is going to need people to visit more than ever now so hopefully we see more flights to Nassau in the near future.


Nassau was unaffected; completely. Other than some mild road flooding in low areas that dried out with-in a day, the only thing we had was intermittent rain and moderate wind, with gusts up to 35mph. We did NOT get hurricane force winds; that is simply incorrect. Hell, the airport never closed. I didn't even bother putting down the hurricane shutters. As a rule, hurricane force winds rarely extend 25 miles beyond the eyewall. Grand Bahama & Abaco alone do not constitute the Bahamian economy. Bahamians will still flock to Florida; even more so in the coming months now to ship back building supplies.


My concern is that people will see the images on television and assume that ALL of the Bahamas looks like the places that were most affected by the hurricane, and will choose another destination for their vacations, which would really hurt the Bahamian economy just when it needs the most help. This has happened in the aftermath of other natural disasters.

I've been really impressed with the kindness of Bahamian people, and I want people to continue visiting the areas in the Bahamas that were undamaged by the hurricane so the hospitality industry in the undamaged parts of the Bahamas remains strong, so I hope my concerns are unfounded......


Agreed on all this from everyone. I hope people realize only the Northern Bahamas were devastated and still travel there.

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