brabb12
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SNA and FedEx A300

Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:24 am

So I was looking at FedEx Wikipedia page and noticed that FedEx is planning on having the 767 replace the a300 in the future. FedEx sends the a300 about 5 times a week to SNA. Would they use a 767 to SNA in the future when they retire the a300? I know they have the 757 they can use, but I don't think they have ever sent it there before. What would FedEx use to replace the a300 when it's retired?
Last edited by SQ22 on Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:58 am

Don't think the A300s are leaving anytime soon, but getting the 763 qualified at SNA should not be too difficult.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
DarthLobster
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:18 am

They'll just switch it to the 757.
 
fromheretohere9
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:56 am

The B767 is starting very slowly to replace A300’s and has already taken over older A310’s routes. The B767’s have taken over a number of routes within the Asian network from CAN and other stations. We also have had a few B767’s appear in Europe. The FX5201/5202 and FX5210/5220 DUB-STN-CDG-STN-DUB has been flown a a couple of B767’s since 1st July and other have been ferried to and from MEM for ground crew familiarisation at other stations to.
 
brabb12
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:41 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Don't think the A300s are leaving anytime soon, but getting the 763 qualified at SNA should not be too difficult.
Even though the 767 that would be flying there would be 767-300er? I know the airport can handle 767-200 but 300 series? Wow. Doesn't a 767-300erf need though minimum 8500ft of runway for taking off? Just wanting to learn as much as possible.

Thanks!!!
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:51 pm

brabb12 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Don't think the A300s are leaving anytime soon, but getting the 763 qualified at SNA should not be too difficult.
Even though the 767 that would be flying there would be 767-300er? I know the airport can handle 767-200 but 300 series? Wow. Doesn't a 767-300erf need though minimum 8500ft of runway for taking off? Just wanting to learn as much as possible.

Thanks!!!


Maybe at MTOW it would need 8500 but these cargo aircraft are often volume limited rather than MTOW.
 
B737Captain1980
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:10 pm

The runway at SNA is too short for a B767-300. That plane needs about 8000' of runway. They'll switch to a B757, just like UPS uses at SNA.

The A300 MTOW is roughly 300,000LBS. It's the largest size aircraft SNA is equipped to handle. When the C-17 parks here, they permanently close taxiway B for overnight parking. Theres nowhere to park it.
 
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Polot
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:23 pm

B737Captain1980 wrote:
The runway at SNA is too short for a B767-300. That plane needs about 8000' of runway. They'll switch to a B757, just like UPS uses at SNA.

The A300 MTOW is roughly 300,000LBS. It's the largest size aircraft SNA is equipped to handle. When the C-17 parks here, they permanently close taxiway B for overnight parking. Theres nowhere to park it.

Looking at the ACAPs the A300F’s take off performance doesn’t seem to be significantly different than the 763F’s. Yes the 763 needs ~8000 ft...at MTOW. I doubt FX’s A300s are departing SNA at MTOW (The A300 is not that much of a rocket). If the A300Fs are at 300k lbs then they are purposely derating their max capability since A300-600F MTOW is almost 376k lbs. Granted I don’t know how well the field can fit the 767. The 763F is slightly larger than the A300 but smaller than a C-17. There is also the question of whether the C-17 is parked there because it fits nowhere else, or because there is no additional space for it considering cargo ramp has to be free to allow FX’s A300(s) to park there.
Last edited by Polot on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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UPlog
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:33 pm

I know for a fact that UPS will eventually increase gauge at SNA.
The 757 is often too small with volume having to be moved up to LGB (a 767).

A 763 should not have issues at SNA. All we are talking about is a 3.5 hour hop to SDF. Plane won't be that heavy.
 
GSOtoIND
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:39 pm

Performance concerns aside, the A300 fleet isn't going away anytime soon. The ones slated for retirement are the oldest of the 22 frames that were converted from passenger use. The oldest new-build A300 is N650FE, which only had ~33000 hours and ~18000 cycles as of April 2018. At that utilization rate, retirement is decades away for the newer subfleet.
IND. 2018: BOS/AUA/MIA/DEN Next: LAS/SLC/DEN
 
HP69
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:44 pm

Does Fedex operate 762s still that it could use?
 
GSOtoIND
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:49 pm

HP69 wrote:
Does Fedex operate 762s still that it could use?

FedEx has never operated 762s.
IND. 2018: BOS/AUA/MIA/DEN Next: LAS/SLC/DEN
 
brabb12
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:18 pm

UPlog wrote:
I know for a fact that UPS will eventually increase gauge at SNA.
The 757 is often too small with volume having to be moved up to LGB (a 767).

A 763 should not have issues at SNA. All we are talking about is a 3.5 hour hop to SDF. Plane won't be that heavy.

I heard that in winter ups does use the a300. It's interesting that I haven't seen any pictures of it there but it's in the noise abatement quarterly report that they used it a few times in 2018.
 
MrBretz
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:01 pm

 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:16 pm

If the Air Force could get C-141s into SNA (they did wayyyy back in the day as part of an earthquake response test) then a lightly loaded 763 can likely make it. They also got C-5s in there but they were barely loaded, if at all. This was back in the eighties, if my admittedly hazy memory serves. Dang, I'm getting old.
 
sdf880
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:51 pm

UPS used A300s last several peaks at SNA. Max weight was limited to 300K. Right now
it's a 757.
 
brabb12
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:26 pm

MrBretz wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqkNNHmljfk

A300 landing at SNA.

That's the FedEx a300 not a ups one.
 
MrBretz
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:46 am

brabb12 wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqkNNHmljfk

A300 landing at SNA.

That's the FedEx a300 not a ups one.


Well, the airport can handle A300s. You have a video. Why not look at flightaware or some other site to confirm that UPS actually lands an A300 there. I am too lazy to look through arrivals to find one.
 
B737Captain1980
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:14 pm

This is mostly why me and most actual pilots that can accurately answer a lot of the tech questions stay away from a.net
The B767 can’t operate out of sna yet contrarians swarm the thread giving their opinions about why they think it can. Never having flown the plane, nor known its capabilities. Always pettiness going on.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:29 pm

I was in SNA a few weeks ago and saw the FX A300 land. It pretty much seemed to just fall out of the sky and plopped the mains right on the touchdown marker. I never saw so much wheel smoke in my life.
When wasn't America great?


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estorilm
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:51 pm

Wow, the A300 in that video certainly had plenty of landing margin there. Obviously landing isn't the issue though.

I'm sure it looks quite different on approach though!
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:02 pm

B737Captain1980 wrote:
This is mostly why me and most actual pilots that can accurately answer a lot of the tech questions stay away from a.net
The B767 can’t operate out of sna yet contrarians swarm the thread giving their opinions about why they think it can. Never having flown the plane, nor known its capabilities. Always pettiness going on.


Sorry, this isn’t correct. Given that it would be nowhere near MTOW, flying into and out of SNA would not be an issue.
Whatever
 
UPS757Pilot
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:01 pm

UPS looked at operating 767s at BUR but eventually decided against it due to performance considerations. The airplane can takeoff and land there but there aren’t much safety margins by doing so. I believe SNA would be the same. Max TO weight would be around 360k based solely on landing at max landing weight in a SDF but I imagine the 767 would be restricted to a lower weight based on takeoff climb and rejected takeoff performance.
 
brabb12
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:25 pm

MrBretz wrote:
brabb12 wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqkNNHmljfk

A300 landing at SNA.

That's the FedEx a300 not a ups one.


Well, the airport can handle A300s. You have a video. Why not look at flightaware or some other site to confirm that UPS actually lands an A300 there. I am too lazy to look through arrivals to find one.

I know it can handle a a300, i just haven't seen a UPS A300 land there yet that's all. I know they have done it, but haven't seen a video of them yet.
 
brabb12
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:29 pm

B737Captain1980 wrote:
This is mostly why me and most actual pilots that can accurately answer a lot of the tech questions stay away from a.net
The B767 can’t operate out of sna yet contrarians swarm the thread giving their opinions about why they think it can. Never having flown the plane, nor known its capabilities. Always pettiness going on.


How come they have the 767 nosewheel markers then at the airport for some of the gates?
 
chrisair
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:10 pm

B737Captain1980 wrote:
This is mostly why me and most actual pilots that can accurately answer a lot of the tech questions stay away from a.net
The B767 can’t operate out of sna yet contrarians swarm the thread giving their opinions about why they think it can. Never having flown the plane, nor known its capabilities. Always pettiness going on.


When they built the new terminal in the early 90s, gates 8 and 9 were designed to handle 767s and I believe the consent agreement was designed with 767 operations in mind.

I have no idea if a 767 has landed there in the ~30 years since the "new" terminal has been operational, nor do I know if anyone can operate a 767 in a passenger configuration or haul boxes out of there in an economical fashion, but the airport was designed to accommodate them.
 
alasizon
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:59 pm

According to the 767 Airport Planning Manual (published by Boeing), at sea level on a 5,700' runway; a 763F could take off between about 330k and 340k depending on engines which would likely be plenty for SNA. Converted frames wouldn't perform quite as well from what I'm seeing but even then, plenty of new build 763Fs out there.

Source:
http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commer ... ps/767.pdf
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jetblueguy22
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:07 pm

MrBretz wrote:
brabb12 wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqkNNHmljfk

A300 landing at SNA.

That's the FedEx a300 not a ups one.


Well, the airport can handle A300s. You have a video. Why not look at flightaware or some other site to confirm that UPS actually lands an A300 there. I am too lazy to look through arrivals to find one.

It’s a 757 only gateway.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
brabb12
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:29 pm

alasizon wrote:
According to the 767 Airport Planning Manual (published by Boeing), at sea level on a 5,700' runway; a 763F could take off between about 330k and 340k depending on engines which would likely be plenty for SNA. Converted frames wouldn't perform quite as well from what I'm seeing but even then, plenty of new build 763Fs out there.

Source:
http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commer ... ps/767.pdf
interesting. I hope one day to see it out here at SNA soon. Especially since we don't get many interesting aircraft at SNA.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:36 pm

Wouldn't a 757 be the best choice. 767 might work runway wise but what about all the NIMBY people around that airport be better with a 752? Wouldn't the 757 have better performance to get higher faster etc? Just seems like a good plane to me for that airport
 
gmcc
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:43 pm

If UPS and FedEx needed more capacity at SNA why don't they use the extra freight slots that they have at SNA but always return to the airport.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:47 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Wouldn't a 757 be the best choice. 767 might work runway wise but what about all the NIMBY people around that airport be better with a 752? Wouldn't the 757 have better performance to get higher faster etc? Just seems like a good plane to me for that airport

It isn’t about the NIMBYs, it’s about capacity. Why would you send two airplanes when you can send one bigger one?
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
alasizon
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:01 pm

gmcc wrote:
If UPS and FedEx needed more capacity at SNA why don't they use the extra freight slots that they have at SNA but always return to the airport.


They don't return the slots, rather they just don't request that many slots.

With the way the service patterns are setup for both FedEx and UPS, upgauging may make more sense for them as opposed to adding frequencies if the additional possible volume isn't enough to warrant an additional frequency.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
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UPlog
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:02 pm

gmcc wrote:
If UPS and FedEx needed more capacity at SNA why don't they use the extra freight slots that they have at SNA but always return to the airport.


Because the overnight sort is not daily. From West Coast it's generally Mon-Thu or Mon-Fri service depending on the station.
SNA is Mon-Thu with any Fri volume for Mon delivery is trucked to ONT and flown from there over the weekend.
 
Boeing727
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:08 pm

brabb12 wrote:
I know it can handle a a300, i just haven't seen a UPS A300 land there yet that's all. I know they have done it, but haven't seen a video of them yet.


I have personally landed a Browntail A300 on runway 2L during Peak a couple of years ago just after the sunset...not often but every once in a while we fly one in.
 
MrBretz
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:22 pm

Boeing727 wrote:
brabb12 wrote:
I know it can handle a a300, i just haven't seen a UPS A300 land there yet that's all. I know they have done it, but haven't seen a video of them yet.


I have personally landed a Browntail A300 on runway 2L during Peak a couple of years ago just after the sunset...not often but every once in a while we fly one in.


Next time you do that, why not let brabb12 know so he can take a video or picture of it.
 
brabb12
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:35 am

MrBretz wrote:
Boeing727 wrote:
brabb12 wrote:
I know it can handle a a300, i just haven't seen a UPS A300 land there yet that's all. I know they have done it, but haven't seen a video of them yet.


I have personally landed a Browntail A300 on runway 2L during Peak a couple of years ago just after the sunset...not often but every once in a while we fly one in.


Next time you do that, why not let brabb12 know so he can take a video or picture of it.
. Let me know I'd love to get a few photos.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:07 pm

chrisair wrote:
When they built the new terminal in the early 90s, gates 8 and 9 were designed to handle 767s and I believe the consent agreement was designed with 767 operations in mind.

I have no idea if a 767 has landed there in the ~30 years since the "new" terminal has been operational, nor do I know if anyone can operate a 767 in a passenger configuration or haul boxes out of there in an economical fashion, but the airport was designed to accommodate them.


:checkmark:

During the design process for the new terminal, multiple airlines expressed interest in using the 767 at SNA and hence the two gates were designed to accommodate the type.

Fast forward late 90s, Delta actually formally submitted plans to operate its domestic 763 fleet at the airport, but subsequent financial challenges at the carrier and economic slow down changed its network plans.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
brabb12
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:18 pm

LAXintl wrote:
chrisair wrote:
When they built the new terminal in the early 90s, gates 8 and 9 were designed to handle 767s and I believe the consent agreement was designed with 767 operations in mind.

I have no idea if a 767 has landed there in the ~30 years since the "new" terminal has been operational, nor do I know if anyone can operate a 767 in a passenger configuration or haul boxes out of there in an economical fashion, but the airport was designed to accommodate them.


:checkmark:

During the design process for the new terminal, multiple airlines expressed interest in using the 767 at SNA and hence the two gates were designed to accommodate the type.

Fast forward late 90s, Delta actually formally submitted plans to operate its domestic 763 fleet at the airport, but subsequent financial challenges at the carrier and economic slow down changed its network plans.

Wow. That's interesting. Do you know what gates or terminal it was going to be at?
 
alasizon
Posts: 1944
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:25 pm

brabb12 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
chrisair wrote:
When they built the new terminal in the early 90s, gates 8 and 9 were designed to handle 767s and I believe the consent agreement was designed with 767 operations in mind.

I have no idea if a 767 has landed there in the ~30 years since the "new" terminal has been operational, nor do I know if anyone can operate a 767 in a passenger configuration or haul boxes out of there in an economical fashion, but the airport was designed to accommodate them.


:checkmark:

During the design process for the new terminal, multiple airlines expressed interest in using the 767 at SNA and hence the two gates were designed to accommodate the type.

Fast forward late 90s, Delta actually formally submitted plans to operate its domestic 763 fleet at the airport, but subsequent financial challenges at the carrier and economic slow down changed its network plans.

Wow. That's interesting. Do you know what gates or terminal it was going to be at?

According to the bolded section, gates 8 and 9 were designed as capable.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
brabb12
Topic Author
Posts: 15
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Re: Sna and FedEx a300

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:38 pm

alasizon wrote:
brabb12 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:

:checkmark:

During the design process for the new terminal, multiple airlines expressed interest in using the 767 at SNA and hence the two gates were designed to accommodate the type.

Fast forward late 90s, Delta actually formally submitted plans to operate its domestic 763 fleet at the airport, but subsequent financial challenges at the carrier and economic slow down changed its network plans.

Wow. That's interesting. Do you know what gates or terminal it was going to be at?

According to the bolded section, gates 8 and 9 were designed as capable.

Opps didn't see that! Thank You.

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