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qf789
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Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:54 am

Developing story so details are limited at this stage. A fire has broken onboard a China Eastern A320neo on a flight from NKG to XMN. The flight returned safely to NKG

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https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/statu ... 09601?s=20
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RickNRoll
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:20 am

Cheap hi capacity power banks. What could go wrong? Phones and tablets have to be reasonably well made. Anyone can churn out a cheap power bank. Will Airlines have to been them?
 
alm1
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:36 am

In Europe Wizz Air has already banned charging using powerbanks on board. They say that during safety briefing but do not enforce much.
 
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DexSwart
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:47 am

My concern isn’t so much them being in the cabin, that’s manageable.

My concern is how many people put these in their checked luggage. Or other bigger batteries like those that are being built into suit cases.
Durban. Melbourne. Denver. Hong Kong.
 
vahancrazy
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:28 am

DexSwart wrote:
My concern isn’t so much them being in the cabin, that’s manageable.

My concern is how many people put these in their checked luggage. Or other bigger batteries like those that are being built into suit cases.


I agree with you.

Sadly, I do not think we can really expet such measurement to be enforced. I mean, too much luggages double checking and statistically, the cases are minium (until now=.
 
AirwayBill
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:57 am

I have the uncomfortable feeling that the next Swissair 111 type of accident will be caused by one of these failing, high capacity powerbanks with no backup system.

It is only a matter of time before one of those fires goes uncontrollable and leads to severe injuries/disaster imho.
 
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vhtje
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:05 am

DexSwart wrote:
Or other bigger batteries like those that are being built into suit cases.


It's a valid point. Some carriers - I know BA - have strict rules about checking these kind of cases:

https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/baggage-essentials/liquids-and-restrictions

British Airways wrote:
If the Smart Baggage is to be checked in and will travel in the hold, the lithium battery/power bank must be removed and carried in the cabin


British Airways wrote:
If the Wh rating of the Lithium battery / Power Bank is more than 160 Wh, or the Wh rating cannot be determined (e.g. not marked on the battery/Power Bank case) the lithium battery/power bank will not be accepted on the flight


How well they are policed, I know not. I mean, I get asked at check-in now if I am carrying a battery pack or if my case contains a battery/is a smart case, but it would be easy to lie.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
Noshow
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:11 am

I agree to the post above. Inside the cabin it can be handled but on the lower deck it can‘t. Think about transpacific flights.

Battery fires are my biggest actual fear when flying today and I am not easy to scare.

These things should be required to be transported in 787-style steel boxes whenever inaccessible in flight.
 
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GCT64
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:14 am

In my experience, China polices and emphasises not putting batteries/powerbanks in the hold and not using powerbanks in-flight more strongly than most other countries. For example, every powerbank is examined as you go through the security checkpoints, I don't see this elsewhere in the world. I'm guessing that this person was ignoring all the instructions given and, as such, is open to pretty severe penalties in China.
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
moa999
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:34 am

alm1 wrote:
has already banned charging using powerbanks on board. They say that during safety briefing but do not enforce much.


Would have thought that it's when the power banks are under charge (either charging, or discharging) that they are at greatest risk.
 
hodavid1985
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:45 am

vahancrazy wrote:
DexSwart wrote:
My concern isn’t so much them being in the cabin, that’s manageable.

My concern is how many people put these in their checked luggage. Or other bigger batteries like those that are being built into suit cases.


I agree with you.

Sadly, I do not think we can really expet such measurement to be enforced. I mean, too much luggages double checking and statistically, the cases are minium (until now=.


I don't think you can put the power bank inside your checked luggage, the screening will sort it out.
Also, I believe the suit cases with build in batteries have been banned widely.
 
hodavid1985
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:46 am

GCT64 wrote:
In my experience, China polices and emphasises not putting batteries/powerbanks in the hold and not using powerbanks in-flight more strongly than most other countries. For example, every powerbank is examined as you go through the security checkpoints, I don't see this elsewhere in the world. I'm guessing that this person was ignoring all the instructions given and, as such, is open to pretty severe penalties in China.


Yes, also the power bank have to have the label regarding the manufacturer; capacity etc.,
or not you can't go through the security with it.
 
melpax
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:23 am

I transited BKK twice a couple of months back, they are very strict with powerbanks there as well. From memory, anything that had a capacity of around 25,000mAh or more, or where the capacity was not stated on the powerbank was confiscated. And I was asked at checkin at both MEL & KIX if I had any batteries or powerbanks in my checked bags.
Essendon - Whatever it takes......
 
oceanvikram
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:14 am

GCT64 wrote:
In my experience, China polices and emphasises not putting batteries/powerbanks in the hold and not using powerbanks in-flight more strongly than most other countries. For example, every powerbank is examined as you go through the security checkpoints, I don't see this elsewhere in the world. I'm guessing that this person was ignoring all the instructions given and, as such, is open to pretty severe penalties in China.


Or a first timer on a plane ... maybe?

I don't know if any of you have read Neil Ferguson's book "Civilization: The West and the Rest", I believe it turned into a documentary. The premise, from memory, is that at the 1500s, all the world's civilisations and nations were more or less equal economically, technologically and socially. However from then onwards European nations and subsequently USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Singapore became miles a head of the rest, excluding Japans of course. Ferguson proposed 6 "killer apps" that the west followed and one of them was the rule of law.

What I love about aviation other than the wonder of flight, is that in a confined tube I can witness the best and the worst of humanity. At the same time it test may patience and I start thinking of all the famous Stoics and their teachings. The person in question either did not understand the safety concerns, was too stubbornly arrogant to understand that the rules are meant for them as well or the cabin crew is beneath them because of gender or the mere impression they are servants.
My comments are based as an aviation enthusiast first, then as a passenger who paid for his own ticket, after that a passenger on a business trip and finally an armchair CEO.
 
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N776AU
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:42 am

This worries me more than anything when I fly, even though nearly all of my flights take place over land. People are dumb, or just don't care, and I definitely don't trust the TSA to catch anything.

I was flying my parents back from seeing some family and after we had already checked our bags, my dad suddenly can't find his powerbank. Before digging some more (and thankfully, eventually finding it) he tells me he put it in his suitcase. All I could think to myself was "sh*t, and I already acknowledged there was no hazardous material when I checked those bags." I'm glad he found it. It spared me an awkward conversation with a ticketing agent, and me from being mad at him the rest of the trip.
Careful, doors are closing, and will not reopen. Please wait for the next train.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:01 pm

hodavid1985 wrote:
GCT64 wrote:
In my experience, China polices and emphasises not putting batteries/powerbanks in the hold and not using powerbanks in-flight more strongly than most other countries. For example, every powerbank is examined as you go through the security checkpoints, I don't see this elsewhere in the world. I'm guessing that this person was ignoring all the instructions given and, as such, is open to pretty severe penalties in China.


Yes, also the power bank have to have the label regarding the manufacturer; capacity etc.,
or not you can't go through the security with it.

In addition, China aviation authority only allow certain capacity (mAh) powerbank to be brought on board as hand carry. Those beyond prescribed capacity (mAh) will be confiscated at the check in counter. Saying this based on personal experience. Left two high capacity powerbank behind due to my own negligence.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
vahancrazy
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:28 pm

juliuswong wrote:
[...]
In addition, China aviation authority only allow certain capacity (mAh) powerbank to be brought on board as hand carry. Those beyond prescribed capacity (mAh) will be confiscated at the check in counter. Saying this based on personal experience. Left two high capacity powerbank behind due to my own negligence.


Hei Julius,

I never heard this (also never flew to China). Is the info clearly visible when booking flights to/from/within China?
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:44 pm

vahancrazy wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
[...]
In addition, China aviation authority only allow certain capacity (mAh) powerbank to be brought on board as hand carry. Those beyond prescribed capacity (mAh) will be confiscated at the check in counter. Saying this based on personal experience. Left two high capacity powerbank behind due to my own negligence.


Hei Julius,

I never heard this (also never flew to China). Is the info clearly visible when booking flights to/from/within China?

This is all public info.

One's allowed two powerbanks if it's below 10,000 mAh, if it's between 10,000 and 16,000 mAh it needs airline approval, and anything above this limit is strictly prohibited.

Michael
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:47 pm

I guess Jackie Chan is correct, "Chinese stuff will explode" :duck: :duck:

More seriously, though, at least the fire is more or less contained to an area. If anything it's not too different from "exploding phone battery" anyway.
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
hodavid1985
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:22 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
I guess Jackie Chan is correct, "Chinese stuff will explode" :duck: :duck:

More seriously, though, at least the fire is more or less contained to an area. If anything it's not too different from "exploding phone battery" anyway.


Including those parts made in China on the Boeing 737.....am I correct?
 
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alex0easy
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:15 am

eamondzhang wrote:
vahancrazy wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
[...]
In addition, China aviation authority only allow certain capacity (mAh) powerbank to be brought on board as hand carry. Those beyond prescribed capacity (mAh) will be confiscated at the check in counter. Saying this based on personal experience. Left two high capacity powerbank behind due to my own negligence.


Hei Julius,

I never heard this (also never flew to China). Is the info clearly visible when booking flights to/from/within China?

This is all public info.

One's allowed two powerbanks if it's below 10,000 mAh, if it's between 10,000 and 16,000 mAh it needs airline approval, and anything above this limit is strictly prohibited.

Michael


Wrong. The limits are defined with WH, not mAH. WH=mAH*Voltage/1000.
Anything below 100WH is okay.
My power bank is rated for 10000mAH with 3.85V core voltage, which puts it at 38.5WH, well below the 100WH limit.
For most power banks with a 5V core voltage, you need 20000mAH to hit that 100WH limit. For those with 3.85V cores the number goes even higher.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:56 am

alex0easy wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
vahancrazy wrote:

Hei Julius,

I never heard this (also never flew to China). Is the info clearly visible when booking flights to/from/within China?

This is all public info.

One's allowed two powerbanks if it's below 10,000 mAh, if it's between 10,000 and 16,000 mAh it needs airline approval, and anything above this limit is strictly prohibited.

Michael


Wrong. The limits are defined with WH, not mAH. WH=mAH*Voltage/1000.
Anything below 100WH is okay.
My power bank is rated for 10000mAH with 3.85V core voltage, which puts it at 38.5WH, well below the 100WH limit.
For most power banks with a 5V core voltage, you need 20000mAH to hit that 100WH limit. For those with 3.85V cores the number goes even higher.

Without getting into technicality, the ground crew will only see how many mAH and decide if you bin it or take it with you on board and get the line moving. They are not bothered to see how much is the core voltage, at least that was what happened to me.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Powerbank causes fire on China Eastern A320neo MU2809 NKG-XMN

Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:57 pm

GCT64 wrote:
In my experience, China polices and emphasises not putting batteries/powerbanks in the hold and not using powerbanks in-flight more strongly than most other countries. For example, every powerbank is examined as you go through the security checkpoints, I don't see this elsewhere in the world. .


Fact.

Fact#2: reason for above is, nobody knows better than China themselves how badly unreliable (and potentially dangerous) cheap electric/electronic Chinese goods can be. Alarming numbers of exploding mobile phones and similar accidents.

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