EK7777
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EK supposedly starts A380 retirement

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:21 pm

"You’ll start seeing A380s coming out of our fleet for various reasons, and we’ve always said this,” says Emirates Airline president Tim Clark. “These are being dealt with on a tail-by-tail, month-by-month basis under a retirement [schedule] that is well planned already.”

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... rv-460661/

So far, the frames parked at DWC are:

A6-EEH (MSN 119, ULR config, June 2013 delivery)
-Parked at DWC - 26th August 2019

A6-EEK (MSN 132, ULR config, August 2013 delivery)
-Parked at DWC - 25th August 2019

However, there are 2 other A380s that haven't been in service for a while:

A6-EEJ (MSN 127, LR config, September 2013 delivery)
-Inactive since 6th July 2019

A6-EEO (MSN 136, ULR config, August 2013 delivery)
-Inactive since 28th July 2019

Unsure at this point which two, out of the four are the ones destined for the scrapyard.
Surprisingly none of the earlier deliveries (2008 - 2012) with A6-EDx are being retired.

Although TC did mention the frames planned for retirement are due for landing gear replacement and I believe some of the A6-EDx frames have had gear replacements recently. (A6-EDF being one of them).
 
AAEK192
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Re: EK supposedly starts A380 retirement

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:25 pm

EK constantly sends aircraft to DWC to storage, I don't believe those frames are to be retired soon
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: EK supposedly starts A380 retirement

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:29 pm

AAEK192 wrote:
EK constantly sends aircraft to DWC to storage, I don't believe those frames are to be retired soon


The article says that 2 a380s have been withdrew from serviced and will be used as spares.

That's direct from the article, so it's possible two of these are never flying again.
 
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Revelation
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​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:57 pm

Now we read about EK's plans with regard to the future of its A380 fleet:

Emirates is implementing its Airbus A380 retirement plan which will see its fleet size peak shortly before declining to around 90-100 aircraft by the mid-2020s.

The airline, which took delivery of its first A380 in 2008, is to cut its orders for the type from 162 to 123 in the wake of Airbus’s decision to axe the programme in 2020. Cirium fleet data shows that the current fleet stands at 112 aircraft.

“You’ll start seeing A380s coming out of our fleet for various reasons, and we’ve always said this,” says Emirates Airline president Tim Clark. “These are being dealt with on a tail-by-tail, month-by-month basis under a retirement [schedule] that is well planned already.”

Ref: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... rv-460661/

It says two A380s owned by Emirates are parked at DWC and are acting as parts donors, with landing gear a high value item.

It says in light of the fact there is no second hand market for the A380, EK will keep some company owned frames longer than planned, and “What the lessors do [with their aircraft] is up to them.”.

Yet in the end he projects A380s will still be in the fleet till the mid 2030s, but they won't be getting the new first class cabins as previously suggested.
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chunhimlai
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:06 pm

So they will keep the same premium class layout for 2 decades?
 
OmerMaz
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:11 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
So they will keep the same premium class layout for 2 decades?


A premium that is (F) way above the current standart so...Maybe it is not that bad

The fact that there will be no refurbishment to premium cabin, doesn't say it will be necesseraly neglected.
By the 2030s, I'm pretty sure that EKs 77X fleet will be formidable enough, along with the A359 and A339.
 
SQ317
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Re: EK supposedly starts A380 retirement

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:48 pm

Pleasantly surprised that the right-sized fleet will still be about 90 by 2025. Hard to believe that they're not going to fit the new First class given the fleet will last until at least 2035?
 
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Revelation
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:44 pm

OmerMaz wrote:
chunhimlai wrote:
So they will keep the same premium class layout for 2 decades?


A premium that is (F) way above the current standart so...Maybe it is not that bad

The fact that there will be no refurbishment to premium cabin, doesn't say it will be necesseraly neglected.
By the 2030s, I'm pretty sure that EKs 77X fleet will be formidable enough, along with the A359 and A339.

STC says the fleet will peak at 115 then draw down to 90-100 around 2025.

If he's serious about 2035 that means his last one (presumably entering ~2021) will be ~14 years old.

I'm pretty dubious that they'll really stretch them out that long.

I guess the good news is he'll have plenty of parts donors to choose from.
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American 767
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Re: EK supposedly starts A380 retirement

Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:17 am

It's a little strange that they are starting to retire the A380 already, and at the same time they are still waiting for a few more to be delivered brand new. It's interesting. I have never seen an airline taking delivery of a new airplane while at the same time retiring airplanes of the same type, and same variant!

I think that the retirement of the 77Ws has also begun, but the orders of those have all been filled that I know for sure.
Ben Soriano
 
69bug
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:09 am

Revelation wrote:

It says two A380s owned by Emirates are parked at DWC and are acting as parts donors, with landing gear a high value item.



I think its not that the landing-gears have high value, more likely the cost of overhaul of the landing-gear is the deciding factor to park the aircraft and rob parts off it. Market issues typically drive this and EK may have found that they have too many A380s currently.

Being a 'Christmas Tree' (aircraft which have become parts donors are called this because of the multitude of tags hanging all over the plane) is not the end for an aircraft.. they can be brought back to flying condition fairly easily if the proper procedures for storing are carried out. If the aviation market sees a sharp upturn we will probably see these planes back in the air pretty quickly. Its all about having the resources (money + capability).

bug
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: EK supposedly starts A380 retirement

Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:15 am

American 767 wrote:
It's a little strange that they are starting to retire the A380 already, and at the same time they are still waiting for a few more to be delivered brand new. It's interesting. I have never seen an airline taking delivery of a new airplane while at the same time retiring airplanes of the same type, and same variant!

I think that the retirement of the 77Ws has also begun, but the orders of those have all been filled that I know for sure.


That happens quite a lot. For example Norwegian has been taking brand new 737-800s while retiring aircraft of the same type. And they weren't that old.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: EK supposedly starts A380 retirement

Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:18 am

American 767 wrote:
It's a little strange that they are starting to retire the A380 already, and at the same time they are still waiting for a few more to be delivered brand new. It's interesting. I have never seen an airline taking delivery of a new airplane while at the same time retiring airplanes of the same type, and same variant!

I think that the retirement of the 77Ws has also begun, but the orders of those have all been filled that I know for sure.


SQ and CI did this with 744s older 1989/90 builds replaced with 2000s build 744s.
 
foxtrotbravo21
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:12 am

The 3 A380s mentioned are only 9 years old and are parked now, but then there are other like Malaysia Airline 6 A380s which some hardly fly at all and some are only 7 yars old.
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:26 am

Assuming that at least some of the planes will indeed be scrapped, is it really a good idea to scrap a perfectly-working airplane that's only six years old? Seems like a waste of an airframe or resources, even if it's to donate parts.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:37 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Assuming that at least some of the planes will indeed be scrapped, is it really a good idea to scrap a perfectly-working airplane that's only six years old? Seems like a waste of an airframe or resources, even if it's to donate parts.


If they can’t profitably fly it and they can’t sell it what should they do with it?
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:58 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:
Assuming that at least some of the planes will indeed be scrapped, is it really a good idea to scrap a perfectly-working airplane that's only six years old? Seems like a waste of an airframe or resources, even if it's to donate parts.


If they can’t profitably fly it and they can’t sell it what should they do with it?


It just sounds weird to see relatively frames already being scrapped. I know the second-hand market for A380s is tiny, but still.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:22 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:
Assuming that at least some of the planes will indeed be scrapped, is it really a good idea to scrap a perfectly-working airplane that's only six years old? Seems like a waste of an airframe or resources, even if it's to donate parts.


If they can’t profitably fly it and they can’t sell it what should they do with it?


It just sounds weird to see relatively frames already being scrapped. I know the second-hand market for A380s is tiny, but still.


not tiny. non-existent.
 
stephen007
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:43 am

How about A6-EOP? It was undergoing a routine maintenance check in mid-August 2019 when the aircraft collapsed onto its nose on 22 Aug. The damage to the nosewheel assembly and nose section looks pretty serious. That is MSN 200.
 
aeropix
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:46 am

Revelation wrote:
If he's serious about 2035 that means his last one (presumably entering ~2021) will be ~14 years old.

I'm pretty dubious that they'll really stretch them out that long.

I guess the good news is he'll have plenty of parts donors to choose from.


My guess is like many things in the airline game, this kind of statement is merely political posturing meant to prop up the value of the A380's by mitigating the fear that there will be a bunch of them on the used market in short order.

My prediction is that the reality and swiftness of the draw-down will be quite different, and sooner, accompanied by additional commentary about "being nimble in the face of changing market forces" etc.
 
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Finn350
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:12 am

aeropix wrote:
Revelation wrote:
If he's serious about 2035 that means his last one (presumably entering ~2021) will be ~14 years old.

I'm pretty dubious that they'll really stretch them out that long.

I guess the good news is he'll have plenty of parts donors to choose from.


My guess is like many things in the airline game, this kind of statement is merely political posturing meant to prop up the value of the A380's by mitigating the fear that there will be a bunch of them on the used market in short order.

My prediction is that the reality and swiftness of the draw-down will be quite different, and sooner, accompanied by additional commentary about "being nimble in the face of changing market forces" etc.


There is no second hand market for A380s so there really is no point in political posturing. There are plenty of routes (especially those that are slot-restricted) that warrant A380 capacity, so why would they retire the whole fleet before 2035?
 
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MoKa777
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:20 am

stephen007 wrote:
How about A6-EOP? It was undergoing a routine maintenance check in mid-August 2019 when the aircraft collapsed onto its nose on 22 Aug. The damage to the nosewheel assembly and nose section looks pretty serious. That is MSN 200.


I was wondering about the same thing. Maybe the good parts of this aircraft can be salvaged and used on the rest of the fleet instead of doing an expensive repair...
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cruiseshipcrew
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:44 am

69bug wrote:
Revelation wrote:

It says two A380s owned by Emirates are parked at DWC and are acting as parts donors, with landing gear a high value item.



I think its not that the landing-gears have high value, more likely the cost of overhaul of the landing-gear is the deciding factor to park the aircraft and rob parts off it. Market issues typically drive this and EK may have found that they have too many A380s currently.


Often when an airplane is retired for scrapping after the engines the landing gear can be the biggest value item. I'd be surprised if his quote wasn't about the high value of the gear themselves.
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:56 am

MoKa777 wrote:
stephen007 wrote:
How about A6-EOP? It was undergoing a routine maintenance check in mid-August 2019 when the aircraft collapsed onto its nose on 22 Aug. The damage to the nosewheel assembly and nose section looks pretty serious. That is MSN 200.


I was wondering about the same thing. Maybe the good parts of this aircraft can be salvaged and used on the rest of the fleet instead of doing an expensive repair...


A6-EOP is leased. EK cannot simply help itself to parts. What happens to that aircraft now will be for the lessor and insurer to decide.

This is why it is fine for EK to park and rob parts from the few frames that they actually own. [this line was added in the edit]
 
CHRISBA35X
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:21 am

Why didn't they start on the D-index tails? why start on the Echoes?

The Deltas will be older and coming up for more C/D checks, they have older fittings are a lot more tired than the Echoes. I guess it must be a lessor thing?
 
CHRISBA35X
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:28 am

Revelation wrote:
Yet in the end he projects A380s will still be in the fleet till the mid 2030s, but they won't be getting the new first class cabins as previously suggested.


I very much doubt the A380s will be on property by 2030 if they arent getting new F/C/Y+ etc.

They'll need nose to tail revamps in the coming years with the new products coming in - I personally dont think C needs much if any work and i'm not sure if the 777 new C fits in the A380 weight wise but the Y+ will need to go in from launch and F on the 777 is very much superior to the (excellent) A380 F product now so they'll need to change that up.

If they arent getting the new products then i think this speaks to EK moving away from the A380 quicker than we have been told.
 
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SQ789
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Re: EK supposedly starts A380 retirement

Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:31 am

AAEK192 wrote:
EK constantly sends aircraft to DWC to storage, I don't believe those frames are to be retired soon

Correct. The most frame that will be retired next year are the A6-EDx series first.
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zkojq
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Re: EK supposedly starts A380 retirement

Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:30 am

American 767 wrote:
I have never seen an airline taking delivery of a new airplane while at the same time retiring airplanes of the same type, and same variant!


The same airline has been both retiring and taking delivery of 77Ws for a couple of years now.

Ryanair has been doing the same with 737-8s for more than a decade. Thai and Malaysia did the same with A330s.

It's not really so uncommon at all.
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EK7777
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:35 am

CHRISBA35X wrote:
Why didn't they start on the D-index tails? why start on the Echoes?

The Deltas will be older and coming up for more C/D checks, they have older fittings are a lot more tired than the Echoes. I guess it must be a lessor thing?
EDx frames have gone through the costly landing gear replacements and EDO even had a fresh engine installed recently.

And you are right, it's a lessor thing. Most of the EDx frames are leased from Doric.
stephen007 wrote:
How about A6-EOP? It was undergoing a routine maintenance check in mid-August 2019 when the aircraft collapsed onto its nose on 22 Aug. The damage to the nosewheel assembly and nose section looks pretty serious. That is MSN 200.
Tim Clark says the damage is being assessed and it will be repaired and return to service. No early retirement for EOP.
 
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Revelation
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:14 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:
Assuming that at least some of the planes will indeed be scrapped, is it really a good idea to scrap a perfectly-working airplane that's only six years old? Seems like a waste of an airframe or resources, even if it's to donate parts.


If they can’t profitably fly it and they can’t sell it what should they do with it?


It just sounds weird to see relatively frames already being scrapped. I know the second-hand market for A380s is tiny, but still.

CHRISBA35X wrote:
Why didn't they start on the D-index tails? why start on the Echoes?

The Deltas will be older and coming up for more C/D checks, they have older fittings are a lot more tired than the Echoes. I guess it must be a lessor thing?

Probably a "who's up for a heavy check next" thing. If the D-index frames have made it through the heavy checks they're good for another six years.. https://jalopnik.com/watch-this-airbus- ... 1660736071 suggests the check takes 55 days and costs many millions of dollars. STC said the gear rebuild costs $25M all by itself, doing four engines presumably is more. It's a big enough expense to make it worth trying to avoid it. If they have owned aircraft that are in surplus, they may never fly again.
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itisi
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:20 am

They are still taking delivery!!
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Revelation
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:37 am

itisi wrote:
They are still taking delivery!!

Even that seems uncertain.

Ref: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1430669&p=21638021#p21637251 (our STC venting thread).
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steady eddie
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Re: EK supposedly starts A380 retirement

Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:31 pm

American 767 wrote:
It's a little strange that they are starting to retire the A380 already, and at the same time they are still waiting for a few more to be delivered brand new. It's interesting. I have never seen an airline taking delivery of a new airplane while at the same time retiring airplanes of the same type, and same variant!

I think that the retirement of the 77Ws has also begun, but the orders of those have all been filled that I know for sure.



Lufthansa did this with an A320 CEO a couple of months ago
 
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:02 pm

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Assuming that at least some of the planes will indeed be scrapped, is it really a good idea to scrap a perfectly-working airplane that's only six years old? Seems like a waste of an airframe or resources, even if it's to donate parts.

The fate of a few frames of both the smallest plane they've designed/built, and the largest.

Seems befitting.
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ltbewr
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:10 pm

EK has the option due to the 'creative accounting' allowed by their corporate domicile to write off the wfu planes. Even thought the write off's are huge, they are likely still a fraction of the continuing losses, costs for parts, if continued operating these planes.
 
CRJ900
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:05 pm

Which cabin configurations do you guys see lasting the longest on the EK A380 - the 500+ seat F/J/Y config or the 615-seat J/Y config? Which one makes the most money?
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scbriml
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:12 pm

Revelation wrote:
itisi wrote:
They are still taking delivery!!

Even that seems uncertain.

Ref: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1430669&p=21638021#p21637251 (our STC venting thread).


They’ve taken five A380s so far this year.
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Revelation
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:38 pm

scbriml wrote:
Revelation wrote:
itisi wrote:
They are still taking delivery!!

Even that seems uncertain.

Ref: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1430669&p=21638021#p21637251 (our STC venting thread).

They’ve taken five A380s so far this year.

... before STC kicked his toys out of the pram ...
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lightsaber
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:23 pm

Two things stuck out:
1. We now know, within 5 years, the A380 fleet will shrink from 115 (peak) to 90-100
2. Leasors are on their own.

I believe this is signaling a fleet retirement early, as in 2030-2032.

I speculate EK is not looking to extend leases long term (their will be month by month extensions, on the right terms).

This implies GP7200 powered A380s are retired as soon as practicable. With RR issues, I'm not sure they will last much longer.

As others already noted, we could see a faster retirement hidden behind catchy phrases.

This makes me wonder if other airlines are going to take a Mulligan.

.
Revelation wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Even that seems uncertain.

Ref: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1430669&p=21638021#p21637251 (our STC venting thread).

They’ve taken five A380s so far this year.

... before STC kicked his toys out of the pram ...

Ahem, STC is now a graduate of the AAB school of aircraft negotiation and inspection.

That other thread shows frustration at accepting aircraft. I fully expect delayed deliveries, from everyone, as EK follows the AAB carpet inspection (but this time engines) program.

EK is obviously missing profit targets.

We have two very different threads with one root cause. EK must change strategy and is looking to downsize and renegotiate aircraft/engine orders.


Lightsaber
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filipinoavgeek
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:54 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Two things stuck out:
1. We now know, within 5 years, the A380 fleet will shrink from 115 (peak) to 90-100
2. Leasors are on their own.

I believe this is signaling a fleet retirement early, as in 2030-2032.

I speculate EK is not looking to extend leases long term (their will be month by month extensions, on the right terms).

This implies GP7200 powered A380s are retired as soon as practicable. With RR issues, I'm not sure they will last much longer.

As others already noted, we could see a faster retirement hidden behind catchy phrases.

This makes me wonder if other airlines are going to take a Mulligan.

.
Revelation wrote:
scbriml wrote:
They’ve taken five A380s so far this year.

... before STC kicked his toys out of the pram ...

Ahem, STC is now a graduate of the AAB school of aircraft negotiation and inspection.

That other thread shows frustration at accepting aircraft. I fully expect delayed deliveries, from everyone, as EK follows the AAB carpet inspection (but this time engines) program.

EK is obviously missing profit targets.

We have two very different threads with one root cause. EK must change strategy and is looking to downsize and renegotiate aircraft/engine orders.


Lightsaber


Considering the utter lack of a secondary market, I wonder how long it will be before A380s become a common sight in boneyards around the world and A380s being scrapped become an everyday sight.
 
RB211trent
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:17 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Two things stuck out:
1. We now know, within 5 years, the A380 fleet will shrink from 115 (peak) to 90-100
2. Leasors are on their own.

I believe this is signaling a fleet retirement early, as in 2030-2032.

I speculate EK is not looking to extend leases long term (their will be month by month extensions, on the right terms).

This implies GP7200 powered A380s are retired as soon as practicable. With RR issues, I'm not sure they will last much longer.

As others already noted, we could see a faster retirement hidden behind catchy phrases.

This makes me wonder if other airlines are going to take a Mulligan.

.
Revelation wrote:
scbriml wrote:
They’ve taken five A380s so far this year.

... before STC kicked his toys out of the pram ...

Ahem, STC is now a graduate of the AAB school of aircraft negotiation and inspection.

That other thread shows frustration at accepting aircraft. I fully expect delayed deliveries, from everyone, as EK follows the AAB carpet inspection (but this time engines) program.

EK is obviously missing profit targets.

We have two very different threads with one root cause. EK must change strategy and is looking to downsize and renegotiate aircraft/engine orders.


Lightsaber

What RR issues? I know it takes time to implement modifications but if it takes longer than 2030 i think we are in trouble.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 18136
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Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:25 pm

RB211trent wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Two things stuck out:
1. We now know, within 5 years, the A380 fleet will shrink from 115 (peak) to 90-100
2. Leasors are on their own.

I believe this is signaling a fleet retirement early, as in 2030-2032.

I speculate EK is not looking to extend leases long term (their will be month by month extensions, on the right terms).

This implies GP7200 powered A380s are retired as soon as practicable. With RR issues, I'm not sure they will last much longer.

As others already noted, we could see a faster retirement hidden behind catchy phrases.

This makes me wonder if other airlines are going to take a Mulligan.

.
Revelation wrote:
... before STC kicked his toys out of the pram ...

Ahem, STC is now a graduate of the AAB school of aircraft negotiation and inspection.

That other thread shows frustration at accepting aircraft. I fully expect delayed deliveries, from everyone, as EK follows the AAB carpet inspection (but this time engines) program.

EK is obviously missing profit targets.

We have two very different threads with one root cause. EK must change strategy and is looking to downsize and renegotiate aircraft/engine orders.


Lightsaber

What RR issues? I know it takes time to implement modifications but if it takes longer than 2030 i think we are in trouble.

We keep repeating the issues:
1. T900 did not meet fuel burn promise to EK.
2. Saudi sand eroding T900 engines. Prior links discussed standard EK A380s.
3. The mechanically related T1000, including the ten, has turbine issues. We had a thread on a Norwegian T1000 raining parts onto cars in Rome. Aircraft still grounded awaiting engine fixes most of 2019. To be clear, the T7000 uses the exact same parts, so until the T1000 is fixed, I would wonder if the T7000 will have the same parts failing early.

Now on GE being late on the 777x is quite an issue with unknown in service properties.

PW1100s have issues, fixes still entering fleet (as well as engines with old parts! :faint:

RR is in trouble in 2018/2019. If this continues until 2030, they will become a branch of another aerospace company.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
KFTG
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:06 pm

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Assuming that at least some of the planes will indeed be scrapped, is it really a good idea to scrap a perfectly-working airplane that's only six years old? Seems like a waste of an airframe or resources, even if it's to donate parts.

A couple Frontier Airlines A318s barely made it past their 3rd birthday before getting scrapped.
 
RB211trent
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:35 am

Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:00 am

lightsaber wrote:
RB211trent wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Two things stuck out:
1. We now know, within 5 years, the A380 fleet will shrink from 115 (peak) to 90-100
2. Leasors are on their own.

I believe this is signaling a fleet retirement early, as in 2030-2032.

I speculate EK is not looking to extend leases long term (their will be month by month extensions, on the right terms).

This implies GP7200 powered A380s are retired as soon as practicable. With RR issues, I'm not sure they will last much longer.

As others already noted, we could see a faster retirement hidden behind catchy phrases.

This makes me wonder if other airlines are going to take a Mulligan.

.
Ahem, STC is now a graduate of the AAB school of aircraft negotiation and inspection.

That other thread shows frustration at accepting aircraft. I fully expect delayed deliveries, from everyone, as EK follows the AAB carpet inspection (but this time engines) program.

EK is obviously missing profit targets.

We have two very different threads with one root cause. EK must change strategy and is looking to downsize and renegotiate aircraft/engine orders.


Lightsaber

What RR issues? I know it takes time to implement modifications but if it takes longer than 2030 i think we are in trouble.

We keep repeating the issues:
1. T900 did not meet fuel burn promise to EK.
2. Saudi sand eroding T900 engines. Prior links discussed standard EK A380s.
3. The mechanically related T1000, including the ten, has turbine issues. We had a thread on a Norwegian T1000 raining parts onto cars in Rome. Aircraft still grounded awaiting engine fixes most of 2019. To be clear, the T7000 uses the exact same parts, so until the T1000 is fixed, I would wonder if the T7000 will have the same parts failing early.

Now on GE being late on the 777x is quite an issue with unknown in service properties.

PW1100s have issues, fixes still entering fleet (as well as engines with old parts! :faint:

RR is in trouble in 2018/2019. If this continues until 2030, they will become a branch of another aerospace company.

Lightsaber

You specifically mentioned the T900 will not last much longer in the fleet because of RR issues, what this has got to do with the T1000/7000 I don’t know. There is no issue with sand, don’t know where this has come from and modifications are going to come in the turbine. It still has the best fuel burn on the A380, that’s why Emirates took it. Yes people do keep repeating the issue with no knowledge of what they really are. The 1000 in Rome has nothing to do with the TEN, different engine parts.
 
EK7777
Topic Author
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:59 am

Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:09 am

RB211trent wrote:
It still has the best fuel burn on the A380, that’s why Emirates took it.


AFAIK that's far from the truth. EK only took T900 powered A380s because Engine Alliance wasn't interested in the 380 program anymore so EK couldn't get any more GP7200 powered frames.

EK was very happy with performance and fuel burn on the GP7200s, I remember

The T900s don't work well in the desert, and that's exactly why QR and EY also have GP powered 380s.
 
cpd
Posts: 6012
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:11 am

CRJ900 wrote:
Which cabin configurations do you guys see lasting the longest on the EK A380 - the 500+ seat F/J/Y config or the 615-seat J/Y config? Which one makes the most money?


Apparently neither of them make any profit, they both just burn through huge amounts of money each day. That’s the usual wisdom.

Meanwhile the last ones I flew on were full. Business class full nearly completely, big economy class load too. Didn’t see what F had. I flew in J.

The J on the A380 is somewhat poor though, the seat is unyielding. The newer J on the 777 is far more comfortable. But that’s obviously because it is newer.

RB211trent wrote:
Deleted


Why did you delete your post? It was within rules.

EK7777 wrote:

The T900s don't work well in the desert, and that's exactly why QR and EY also have GP powered 380s.


That’s all well to say, but can you provide evidence? Too many people putting all sorts of claims for one side or the other without backing them up, even a moderator.
 
RB211trent
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:35 am

Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:26 am

EK7777 wrote:
RB211trent wrote:
It still has the best fuel burn on the A380, that’s why Emirates took it.


AFAIK that's far from the truth. EK only took T900 powered A380s because Engine Alliance wasn't interested in the 380 program anymore so EK couldn't get any more GP7200 powered frames.

EK was very happy with performance and fuel burn on the GP7200s, I remember

The T900s don't work well in the desert, and that's exactly why QR and EY also have GP powered 380s.

QR and EY took the GP because it was the best deal for them at the time.
 
EK7777
Topic Author
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:59 am

Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:28 am

cpd wrote:
That’s all well to say, but can you provide evidence? Too many people putting all sorts of claims for one side or the other without backing them up, even a moderator.


Quoting one of the STC articles:

"Even the Trent 900 that powers 22 of Emirates current 112 Airbus A380s is in Clark’s fire line as they have HPC-blade and performance issues"
Last edited by EK7777 on Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
RB211trent
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:35 am

Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:29 am

EK7777 wrote:
RB211trent wrote:
It still has the best fuel burn on the A380, that’s why Emirates took it.


AFAIK that's far from the truth. EK only took T900 powered A380s because Engine Alliance wasn't interested in the 380 program anymore so EK couldn't get any more GP7200 powered frames.

EK was very happy with performance and fuel burn on the GP7200s, I remember

The T900s don't work well in the desert, and that's exactly why QR and EY also have GP powered 380s.

No EA’s deal was not as good as RR and the fuel burn of the T900 is better with the EP3.
 
EK7777
Topic Author
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:59 am

Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:32 am

More context on EK not being a huge fan of the T900s:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-emir ... SKCN1N90EA
 
RB211trent
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:35 am

Re: ​Emirates begins A380 retirements to support in-service fleet

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:33 am

EK7777 wrote:
cpd wrote:
That’s all well to say, but can you provide evidence? Too many people putting all sorts of claims for one side or the other without backing them up, even a moderator.


Quoting one of the STC articles:

"Even the Trent 900 that powers 22 of Emirates current 112 Airbus A380s is in Clark’s fire line as they have HPC-blade and performance issues"

Everybody needs to realise that issues with engines of all types sometimes don’t become apparent after years of operation until they start to operate in different environments and operating conditions. It then takes time and mods to address this.

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