DCAfan
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:56 pm

I checked the July 1 schedules and all the turns are simple
 
alasizon
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo

Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:54 pm

TW787 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Wonder if AS is hoping the SCASD grant for PDX will be approved or if they are adding with the plan of being successful without the grant.


I read the SBP SCASD application. Seems like AS just ruined their chances of winning it to me. The SBP SCASD application was for funds to provide a minimum revenue guarantee to AS to convince them to start service. AS just told the Feds they don't need an MRG. Seems like sloppy network planning on AS's part. If they just could have waited to announce they probably could have had guaranteed revenue - given how successful the SCASD grant was for SBP-SEA on AS, I'd think the Feds would have looked positively on this application. But maybe AS doesn't think they need it.


The MRG though doesn't mean anything if AS forecasts that they will always be above that number. Something similar happened with PHX-ROW on AA, the minimum guarantee ended up only paying out like $70k over the first year and it ended up not being needed.
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strfyr51
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:07 pm

Horizon in one of their former lives actually Did fly to smaller California Cities, So? It would NOT be any stretch to see them fly there as well as MRY, SCK, SBA, FAT, BFL and PSP, and possibly0 ONT.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:42 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Horizon in one of their former lives actually Did fly to smaller California Cities, So? It would NOT be any stretch to see them fly there as well as MRY, SCK, SBA, FAT, BFL and PSP, and possibly0 ONT.

The Alaska branded flights at FAT are currently operated by both QX and OO.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
AirFiero
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:46 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Horizon in one of their former lives actually Did fly to smaller California Cities, So? It would NOT be any stretch to see them fly there as well as MRY, SCK, SBA, FAT, BFL and PSP, and possibly0 ONT.


...and it’s a niche that WN probably couldn’t fly because their aircraft are too big for the routes. An opportunity for AS that should be nearly competition proof.
 
steex
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:10 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Horizon in one of their former lives actually Did fly to smaller California Cities, So? It would NOT be any stretch to see them fly there as well as MRY, SCK, SBA, FAT, BFL and PSP, and possibly0 ONT.


Sure - I'm not sure anyone disagrees with this point, and I don't think AS is fencing QX or OO into any specific geographic boundaries in the West.
 
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RWA380
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:30 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Horizon in one of their former lives actually Did fly to smaller California Cities, So? It would NOT be any stretch to see them fly there as well as MRY, SCK, SBA, FAT, BFL and PSP, and possibly0 ONT.


RDD, ACV & MMH are the only ones I can think of that have been discontinued. QX flies to PSP, SBA & FAT already. IMHO, SCK is not likely, I have wondered if MRY could support the traffic, even from SEA. BFL is the one wild card & I know they are trying to attract AS/QX & have been for some time. Are ACV & RDD possible again, even on the Q-400 as a circle route?

But given it's the E-175 they are using, I think most of the viable dots in California are covered or will be soon.

AirFiero wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Horizon in one of their former lives actually Did fly to smaller California Cities, So? It would NOT be any stretch to see them fly there as well as MRY, SCK, SBA, FAT, BFL and PSP, and possibly0 ONT.


...and it’s a niche that WN probably couldn’t fly because their aircraft are too big for the routes. An opportunity for AS that should be nearly competition proof.


And it still would give AS more stations in California. And maybe that is what they meant when they said they wanted to be "California's go to airline", More of California closer to an AS station than any other carrier? I do believe that was the intent of the E-175's was the ability to serve smaller stations vs just having the capacity of a 73G.
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SANFan
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:00 pm

RWA380 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Horizon in one of their former lives actually Did fly to smaller California Cities, So? It would NOT be any stretch to see them fly there as well as MRY, SCK, SBA, FAT, BFL and PSP, and possibly0 ONT.

RDD, ACV & MMH are the only ones I can think of that have been discontinued. QX flies to PSP, SBA & FAT already. IMHO, SCK is not likely, I have wondered if MRY could support the traffic, even from SEA. BFL is the one wild card & I know they are trying to attract AS/QX & have been for some time. Are ACV & RDD possible again, even on the Q-400 as a circle route?

But given it's the E-175 they are using, I think most of the viable dots in California are covered or will be soon.

And it still would give AS more stations in California. And maybe that is what they meant when they said they wanted to be "California's go to airline", More of California closer to an AS station than any other carrier? I do believe that was the intent of the E-175's was the ability to serve smaller stations vs just having the capacity of a 73G.

I've had SCK in mind for a while now B. I really think it would be very similar to STS -- an alternative airport to a very congested and developed part of CA. G4 flies (I think) SCK-SAN still but that's, you know, G4 service so it's sporadic and infrequent so I don't really count that as service. Of course UA/OO flies to LAX twice daily and I think AS could connect Stockton with SEA and SAN and do surprisingly well.

The only other airport I wonder about is CCR (Concord) serving the East Bay area but they may not even be equipped for commercial air service. (PSA used to fly there years ago.

And BFL? It just seems to me that would be slight overkill in the Central Valley. But perhaps, with all the migrants and workers and surrounding communities, it wouldn't take too much traffic from FAT. I'm sure the airport folks are really anxious to get some scheduled service in Bakersfield but I'd put that possibility pretty far down the list were I AS Network Planning.

(BTW, the way you mentioned MRY B, you do realize that SAN-MRY has been served for years by AS, right? And AFAIK, it's doing fine. I don't know if it's ready to go Daily-Double yet but FAT and STS have multiple frequencies now so I can't imagine MRY is too far behind.) Apparently, MRY-SEA doesn't seem to be anything AS is interested in yet; MRY (SAN) service began in summer of 2012 and has operated daily without interruption ever since. No other destinations from MRY have been hinted at or tried by AS.

bb
 
blacksoviet
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:24 pm

Will the SBP-SAN market ever be able to support mainline equipment?
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:28 pm

SANFan wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Horizon in one of their former lives actually Did fly to smaller California Cities, So? It would NOT be any stretch to see them fly there as well as MRY, SCK, SBA, FAT, BFL and PSP, and possibly0 ONT.

RDD, ACV & MMH are the only ones I can think of that have been discontinued. QX flies to PSP, SBA & FAT already. IMHO, SCK is not likely, I have wondered if MRY could support the traffic, even from SEA. BFL is the one wild card & I know they are trying to attract AS/QX & have been for some time. Are ACV & RDD possible again, even on the Q-400 as a circle route?

But given it's the E-175 they are using, I think most of the viable dots in California are covered or will be soon.

And it still would give AS more stations in California. And maybe that is what they meant when they said they wanted to be "California's go to airline", More of California closer to an AS station than any other carrier? I do believe that was the intent of the E-175's was the ability to serve smaller stations vs just having the capacity of a 73G.

I've had SCK in mind for a while now B. I really think it would be very similar to STS -- an alternative airport to a very congested and developed part of CA. G4 flies (I think) SCK-SAN still but that's, you know, G4 service so it's sporadic and infrequent so I don't really count that as service. Of course UA/OO flies to LAX twice daily and I think AS could connect Stockton with SEA and SAN and do surprisingly well.

The only other airport I wonder about is CCR (Concord) serving the East Bay area but they may not even be equipped for commercial air service. (PSA used to fly there years ago.

And BFL? It just seems to me that would be slight overkill in the Central Valley. But perhaps, with all the migrants and workers and surrounding communities, it wouldn't take too much traffic from FAT. I'm sure the airport folks are really anxious to get some scheduled service in Bakersfield but I'd put that possibility pretty far down the list were I AS Network Planning.

(BTW, the way you mentioned MRY B, you do realize that SAN-MRY has been served for years by AS, right? And AFAIK, it's doing fine. I don't know if it's ready to go Daily-Double yet but FAT and STS have multiple frequencies now so I can't imagine MRY is too far behind.) Apparently, MRY-SEA doesn't seem to be anything AS is interested in yet; MRY (SAN) service began in summer of 2012 and has operated daily without interruption ever since. No other destinations from MRY have been hinted at or tried by AS.

bb


I thought QX did MRY-LAX for awhile too in the past few years but then dropped it.

In a past thread, I wondered if QX could make CCR and TVL work with the Q400. Apparently neither of those airports are equipped for commercial service now, but I bet both could fill a Q.
 
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RWA380
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:40 pm

SANFan wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Horizon in one of their former lives actually Did fly to smaller California Cities, So? It would NOT be any stretch to see them fly there as well as MRY, SCK, SBA, FAT, BFL and PSP, and possibly0 ONT.

RDD, ACV & MMH are the only ones I can think of that have been discontinued. QX flies to PSP, SBA & FAT already. IMHO, SCK is not likely, I have wondered if MRY could support the traffic, even from SEA. BFL is the one wild card & I know they are trying to attract AS/QX & have been for some time. Are ACV & RDD possible again, even on the Q-400 as a circle route?

But given it's the E-175 they are using, I think most of the viable dots in California are covered or will be soon.

And it still would give AS more stations in California. And maybe that is what they meant when they said they wanted to be "California's go to airline", More of California closer to an AS station than any other carrier? I do believe that was the intent of the E-175's was the ability to serve smaller stations vs just having the capacity of a 73G.

I've had SCK in mind for a while now B. I really think it would be very similar to STS -- an alternative airport to a very congested and developed part of CA. G4 flies (I think) SCK-SAN still but that's, you know, G4 service so it's sporadic and infrequent so I don't really count that as service. Of course UA/OO flies to LAX twice daily and I think AS could connect Stockton with SEA and SAN and do surprisingly well.

The only other airport I wonder about is CCR (Concord) serving the East Bay area but they may not even be equipped for commercial air service. (PSA used to fly there years ago.

And BFL? It just seems to me that would be slight overkill in the Central Valley. But perhaps, with all the migrants and workers and surrounding communities, it wouldn't take too much traffic from FAT. I'm sure the airport folks are really anxious to get some scheduled service in Bakersfield but I'd put that possibility pretty far down the list were I AS Network Planning.

(BTW, the way you mentioned MRY B, you do realize that SAN-MRY has been served for years by AS, right? And AFAIK, it's doing fine. I don't know if it's ready to go Daily-Double yet but FAT and STS have multiple frequencies now so I can't imagine MRY is too far behind.) Apparently, MRY-SEA doesn't seem to be anything AS is interested in yet; MRY (SAN) service began in summer of 2012 and has operated daily without interruption ever since. No other destinations from MRY have been hinted at or tried by AS.

bb


Hey B, I didn't even think of CCR & it's a real possibility, I used to take the ferry over to Vallejo on some weekends when I lived in SF, we did some driving around, it would draw people from the Inland Valley Fairfield area like gang busters & much of that is a higher income area. I have friends in Birds Landing CA & also Fairfield CA, I used to CalTrain & Amtrak up to Suisun CA & even a decade ago it was nothing but single family home construction on the way up.

I knew QX has been flying to MRY from SAN, I'd imagine quite a few military fly it. I just don't think MRY is a destination from here. It's one of those places go when in the area & totally woth the detour IMHO. I much prefer Carmel & Pebble Beach. I got to drive a brand new Saab Convertible for 3 hours around there, as a guest of the Highlands Saab was offering free loaners to test drive for the guests. Loved it.

I can bet that every potential commercial service airport in California has been looked at by AAG in one form or another by now, but I'd say OR, WA, ID, MT, AK also. How about weekend service to BHC?
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Wingtips56
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:37 pm

@ RWA380

AS (QX) did run SMF-PSP for years, and did try SMF-SBA for a short while, and also SMF-SJC, very briefly. I think the latter was the BOI-SMF-SJC tag, with very little local SMF-SJC traffic. As to ACV and RDD, I don't see AS returning as the Q400 was really too big back when they did fly round-robins connecting those two with SEA/PDX and LAX, and ACV/Humboldt County hasn't grown much since then. Plus now UAx is flying ACV-LAX and even DEN. I see ACV/RDD to the PNW more for a 30-50 seat jet market (are you listening, Contour?), not 76 seats. (As you know, PenAir flew those markets, but the reliability was dreadful, nevermind the bankruptcy.)

Back in the 1980's, small markets in California were very well connected with a variety of commuter airlines, but the 8-19 seaters aren't economical or favored today. From my perspective at SMF alone, SMF had flights to ACV, CEC (over ACV), RDD, CIC, FAT, VIS, BFL, MRY, SBP, SMX, OXR, PRB, SIY, COA/O22 that no longer exist, while SFO remained with SBA only recently restored, and Contour restores seasonal PSP service this fall. (SMF-MCE is new, but seems a waste, especially with EAS.) Those missing markets are all too small for the current QX/OO equipment. When AA had the hub at SJC, Eagle flew to SCK, CCR, ACV, MOD (I think), and other valley towns with Metros, but all went out when the hub closed. SBP was reasonably well connected with old SwiftAire, which also had the San Joaquin valley routes, Later, Wings West (which became American Eagle) was based at SBP and maintained service. Plus I think the hanger there was theirs.

All gone.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

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KlimaBXsst
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:41 pm

I never would have guessed a few QX Alaska Horizon, Alaska Skywest routes would create such a buzz of excitement, but I guess if the new Midwest Express is getting such a big buzz with so few routes and not even on their own equipment...

...I guess all this Horizon Alaska California excitement is justified.
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hiflyeras
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:58 am

Love that AS has an advantage over WN in serving these smaller markets. It creates buzz and goodwill towards AS and provides great feed for their flights to the PNW, Hawaii, Mexico and Costa Rica. There's a lot of griping about no SCOPE clause for the AS pilots but it's my feeling that growth within Alaska Air Group is for the benefit of all and as markets mature (SEA-SBA for example) they may move from RJ's to mainline.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:28 am

CCR could easily get a terminal set up in a short time...demonstrated by PS back in the 1980's, with double-wides. JSX has a small, make-shift terminal at CCR right now...in the same place as the PS terminal used to be. Does CCR have the runway length to handle the E-175's? CCR's only problem is the community. The surrounding community has a stranglehold on what happens at that airport.

A long shot, but Livermore Airport also has a terminal (never knew why) that has been there forever.

I kind of disagree with SANFan that SCK is similar to STS. The one thing STS has that SCK doesn't have is the wine country. I don't think you'll see AS at SCK anytime soon...but you never know.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:31 am

hiflyeras wrote:
Love that AS has an advantage over WN in serving these smaller markets. It creates buzz and goodwill towards AS and provides great feed for their flights to the PNW, Hawaii, Mexico and Costa Rica. There's a lot of griping about no SCOPE clause for the AS pilots but it's my feeling that growth within Alaska Air Group is for the benefit of all and as markets mature (SEA-SBA for example) they may move from RJ's to mainline.

Does the E190 have enough range to do San Luis Obispo - Costa Rica? What about the E175?
 
FATFlyer
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:58 am

The increase in flights by all airlines at SBP has also already caused an increase in airport noise complaints. From a July 2019 article:
The San Luis Obispo airport’s noise comment form had 257 submissions in 2017, 342 in 2018 and 934 in 2019 so far.
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/article232906067.html
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KLMatSJC
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:56 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Will the SBP-SAN market ever be able to support mainline equipment?

No way. There's no mainline into SBP on any airline. SAN would definitely not be the first city to get it (and would probably be the last).

FATFlyer wrote:
The increase in flights by all airlines at SBP has also already caused an increase in airport noise complaints. From a July 2019 article:
The San Luis Obispo airport’s noise comment form had 257 submissions in 2017, 342 in 2018 and 934 in 2019 so far.
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/article232906067.html

Well San Luis Obispo is FULL of NIMBYs. Just look at some of the laws that are being passed in the city.
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blacksoviet
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:03 am

KLMatSJC wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Will the SBP-SAN market ever be able to support mainline equipment?

No way. There's no mainline into SBP on any airline. SAN would definitely not be the first city to get it (and would probably be the last).

FATFlyer wrote:
The increase in flights by all airlines at SBP has also already caused an increase in airport noise complaints. From a July 2019 article:
The San Luis Obispo airport’s noise comment form had 257 submissions in 2017, 342 in 2018 and 934 in 2019 so far.
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/article232906067.html

Well San Luis Obispo is FULL of NIMBYs. Just look at some of the laws that are being passed in the city.

If you look at the Google satellite, you will see a mainline jet parked on the ramp at SBP. Is this a cargo plane? Perhaps a charter?
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:06 am

blacksoviet wrote:
If you look at the Google satellite, you will see a mainline jet parked on the ramp at SBP. Is this a cargo plane? Perhaps a charter?

It's an Allegiant A319. Cal Poly football charter (or their opponent).
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B77E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

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MIflyer12
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:13 am

hiflyeras wrote:
Love that AS has an advantage over WN in serving these smaller markets. It creates buzz and goodwill towards AS and provides great feed for their flights to the PNW, Hawaii, Mexico and Costa Rica. There's a lot of griping about no SCOPE clause for the AS pilots but it's my feeling that growth within Alaska Air Group is for the benefit of all and as markets mature (SEA-SBA for example) they may move from RJ's to mainline.


Hey, I understand that pilots want scope clauses/job protection (a bunch of people under them with less seniority) but regionals have a role in building the network. When your smallest aircraft seats 143 you're never going to be able to compete in destination count, nor frequency on thin routes. It's a choice WN has made; it's great for commonality and CASM.
 
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RWA380
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:54 am

Wingtips56 wrote:
@ RWA380

AS (QX) did run SMF-PSP for years, and did try SMF-SBA for a short while, and also SMF-SJC, very briefly. I think the latter was the BOI-SMF-SJC tag, with very little local SMF-SJC traffic. As to ACV and RDD, I don't see AS returning as the Q400 was really too big back when they did fly round-robins connecting those two with SEA/PDX and LAX, and ACV/Humboldt County hasn't grown much since then. Plus now UAx is flying ACV-LAX and even DEN. I see ACV/RDD to the PNW more for a 30-50 seat jet market (are you listening, Contour?), not 76 seats. (As you know, PenAir flew those markets, but the reliability was dreadful, nevermind the bankruptcy.)

Back in the 1980's, small markets in California were very well connected with a variety of commuter airlines, but the 8-19 seaters aren't economical or favored today. From my perspective at SMF alone, SMF had flights to ACV, CEC (over ACV), RDD, CIC, FAT, VIS, BFL, MRY, SBP, SMX, OXR, PRB, SIY, COA/O22 that no longer exist, while SFO remained with SBA only recently restored, and Contour restores seasonal PSP service this fall. (SMF-MCE is new, but seems a waste, especially with EAS.) Those missing markets are all too small for the current QX/OO equipment. When AA had the hub at SJC, Eagle flew to SCK, CCR, ACV, MOD (I think), and other valley towns with Metros, but all went out when the hub closed. SBP was reasonably well connected with old SwiftAire, which also had the San Joaquin valley routes, Later, Wings West (which became American Eagle) was based at SBP and maintained service. Plus I think the hanger there was theirs.

All gone.


I can always count on you for the Northern California expertise on historical flying, it's appreciated. I have been learning more about WingWest SwftAir by reading their old timetables & studying route maps. As you know I keep that huge list of every Oregon City (Incl CEC) & everywhere there has been non-stop service & what carrier flew it, I am still finding new treasures, it's grown some by all the new SY, AS & F9 dartboard stuff. But I'v found a few more nuggets & even scheduled service from Portland to McMinnville.

I certainly didn't remember some of those intra-California routes you mentioned, but I heard the Dornier 328 prop aircraft is being build again & I am a huge proponent for QX to buy a dozen or two. The markets in the Northwest like PDX-RDD or PDX-ACV could be viable, maybe even returns to LMT & PDT. But also the smaller Califonia cities to the SFO or LAX hubs. I loved flying it, best prop flight ever for me.
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blacksoviet
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:36 am

LAXBUR wrote:
continental004 wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:

Then you should know that an hour and change flight even with security is not the same as a 8 plus hours. Those are not competitive.


Taking the train is a much smoother experience and is much more environmentally friendly. I like planes as much as you do but we’ve gotta be realistic here.


You aren't being realistic, you're being idealistic. By your logic everyone would also take the train to San Francisco from LA. Instead there are hundreds of flights a day from the LA Basin to the Bay Area. Why? Because no business person and most leisure travelers don't want to take a whole day to get to the next largest Metro in California.

Back t SBP, Amtrak is not at all competitive between these city pairs when head to head with an airplane. Especially with San Diego Airport being literally Downtown. It also really isn't that cheap with tickets starting at over $60 advanced...for 8.5 hours. The real question is how many people are traveling between these two cities in the first place and the cost benefit of flying over driving. Amtrak really doesn't factor here as it isn't exactly a good value being a whole 2+ hours longer than driving and leaving you without a car when you arrive. Amtrak in the West is still mostly a niche player.
The train is supposed to be slow. The whole point of the train is to enjoy the view.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:03 pm

AA Eagle never served CCR. They did do SJC-MOD to confirm that. Living in Lodi '70-'80, very familiar with all the boom and bust of the various lines and stops then. As for Livermore, they had short lived SFO service via STOL Air IIRC (precursor to WestAir ). Great era for spotting then. Variety of planes and colors!
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:29 pm

sprxUSA wrote:
AA Eagle never served CCR. They did do SJC-MOD to confirm that. Living in Lodi '70-'80, very familiar with all the boom and bust of the various lines and stops then. As for Livermore, they had short lived SFO service via STOL Air IIRC (precursor to WestAir ). Great era for spotting then. Variety of planes and colors!


The only airlines I remember seeing CCR were WestAir and later PS/US (before JSX now). I don't remember if Wings West flew to CCR, but like you mentioned...I don't think so.

Didn't STOLAir also serve Vallejo? But I think STOLAir was a little before my time. I just remember seeing their listing the phone book.

It's a shame that the DOT allowed so much consolidation, based on the idea that it increased competitiveness...bunch of hog-wash!
 
Wingtips56
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:22 am

Well I looks like I could be wrong about Eagle at CCR.

Want more history?

@ Wedgetail
STOL Air (with the BN Islander and Trislander) was STS-based, working primarily on the STS-SFO run and on Napa/APC (not Vallejo, but close) to SFO. (I had applied for a job at APC but they wanted longer than summer help). Evidently they also served UKI/Ukiah for a brief time as some time later we found some post-STOL WestAir UKI bag tags in our inventory in SMF. Could have done CCR as well, if memory serves, again in finding old bag tags.

STOL became WestAir, merging with the dried remains of Norcal and Golden Eagle, out of RDD in either very late 1978 or early 1979. The Cessna 402s of WestAir were from the Golden Eagle valley heritage. (I think the one C404 was Norcal's.) I hired on at SMF in June 1979, shortly after that merger/acquistion. Incidentally, Maurie Gallagher, now of Alegiant, was one of the founders of STOL/WestAir. I used to have to call him weekly for a check to pay off the fuel bill at SMF after credit problems. Here's an article I just found: https://www.revolvy.com/page/WestAir-Commuter-Airlines WestAir spun off Pacific Express. WestAir, originally VB, changing to OE after PacEx split...and expired.. eventually operated as United Express, and was eventually bought out by Mesa. They shut down the ops when UA transferred the United Express flying to SkyWest. (NPA and Atlantic Coast actually spun off from WestAir as well.) WestAir HDQ had moved from STS to Burlingame to Chico.

I started there right when Air Pacific/IK withdrew from SMF. They had just fired an agent for sending pot in Comat. They folded completely very shortly thereafter. We'd get their uninformed passengers showing up, looking for them. They started as Eureka Flying Service at EKA/Eureka Murray Field, down on the Humboldt Bay mudflats. Serious fog issues. They had C402s and eventually with the Dash 7, and I believe Twotters. Tim Flynn (to WestAir, Pacific Express and then Valujet), and his father John Flynn were behind that bunch at some point. I believe in addition to EKA/ACV and CEC, they flew briefly farther north to Gold Beach OR, and I helped one of their refugees get there....I think JT may have flown there from PDX at the time.

Later on, I believe it was John Flynn who built Six Rivers Flying Service at EKA into Century Airlines ...the original QX before Horizon took the code post-Air Oregon. They used their C402s for ACV-SMF/CEC/SFO, later adding the GAF N24 Nomad. The Nomad, even though a turboprop, was at least 20 minutes slower than a 402 on the ACV-SMF run. They lost a 402 and crew on a training flight one evening out of CEC, hitting Castle Rock.

A little bit later was the Gem State entry into Northern California, becoming Golden Gate/GG. Inland Empire/CC, out of Pomona/POC came in with Metros, taking some of the former SwiftAire valley runs after WI collapsed from the GG takeover. Well before my time, Skymark was doing SMF-SFO/Valley runs. A neighbor piloted for them briefly.

Horizon:
One of the early codeshares was when UA brought in Cascade/CZ to take over their SMF-PDX run, with old BAC-1-11s. (This fact is not shown in Cascade's Wikipedia page.) Later that contract moved to Horizon with the F28, though neither under the United Express banner, ending some time before QX actually started flying in on their own as AS*, opening their own station. They handled AS mainline when they later entered the SMF market, and it may still be a QX station. The F28 SMF-PDX gave way to the Q400.

And that is where we join Horizon's history in California. If they were to acquire the new Do328's as RWA380 hopes, I could see them rejoining some of these historic California markets (including SMF/Bay Area to SJ Valley and SBP, SBA, SMF, MRY), but not with anything the size of a Q400/E175 or CRJ7. That could also work for EUG/MFR into N. Cal as well.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
amcnd
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:52 am

Good Read ^ my most favorite flying job was, Wings West Saab out of LAX.. good times.
 
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RWA380
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:55 am

Wingtips56 wrote:
Well I looks like I could be wrong about Eagle at CCR.

Want more history?

@ Wedgetail
STOL Air (with the BN Islander and Trislander) was STS-based, working primarily on the STS-SFO run and on Napa/APC (not Vallejo, but close) to SFO. (I had applied for a job at APC but they wanted longer than summer help). Evidently they also served UKI/Ukiah for a brief time as some time later we found some post-STOL WestAir UKI bag tags in our inventory in SMF. Could have done CCR as well, if memory serves, again in finding old bag tags.

STOL became WestAir, merging with the dried remains of Norcal and Golden Eagle, out of RDD in either very late 1978 or early 1979. The Cessna 402s of WestAir were from the Golden Eagle valley heritage. (I think the one C404 was Norcal's.) I hired on at SMF in June 1979, shortly after that merger/acquistion. Incidentally, Maurie Gallagher, now of Alegiant, was one of the founders of STOL/WestAir. I used to have to call him weekly for a check to pay off the fuel bill at SMF after credit problems. Here's an article I just found: https://www.revolvy.com/page/WestAir-Commuter-Airlines WestAir spun off Pacific Express. WestAir, originally VB, changing to OE after PacEx split...and expired.. eventually operated as United Express, and was eventually bought out by Mesa. They shut down the ops when UA transferred the United Express flying to SkyWest. (NPA and Atlantic Coast actually spun off from WestAir as well.) WestAir HDQ had moved from STS to Burlingame to Chico.

I started there right when Air Pacific/IK withdrew from SMF. They had just fired an agent for sending pot in Comat. They folded completely very shortly thereafter. We'd get their uninformed passengers showing up, looking for them. They started as Eureka Flying Service at EKA/Eureka Murray Field, down on the Humboldt Bay mudflats. Serious fog issues. They had C402s and eventually with the Dash 7, and I believe Twotters. Tim Flynn (to WestAir, Pacific Express and then Valujet), and his father John Flynn were behind that bunch at some point. I believe in addition to EKA/ACV and CEC, they flew briefly farther north to Gold Beach OR, and I helped one of their refugees get there....I think JT may have flown there from PDX at the time.

Later on, I believe it was John Flynn who built Six Rivers Flying Service at EKA into Century Airlines ...the original QX before Horizon took the code post-Air Oregon. They used their C402s for ACV-SMF/CEC/SFO, later adding the GAF N24 Nomad. The Nomad, even though a turboprop, was at least 20 minutes slower than a 402 on the ACV-SMF run. They lost a 402 and crew on a training flight one evening out of CEC, hitting Castle Rock.

A little bit later was the Gem State entry into Northern California, becoming Golden Gate/GG. Inland Empire/CC, out of Pomona/POC came in with Metros, taking some of the former SwiftAire valley runs after WI collapsed from the GG takeover. Well before my time, Skymark was doing SMF-SFO/Valley runs. A neighbor piloted for them briefly.

Horizon:
One of the early codeshares was when UA brought in Cascade/CZ to take over their SMF-PDX run, with old BAC-1-11s. (This fact is not shown in Cascade's Wikipedia page.) Later that contract moved to Horizon with the F28, though neither under the United Express banner, ending some time before QX actually started flying in on their own as AS*, opening their own station. They handled AS mainline when they later entered the SMF market, and it may still be a QX station. The F28 SMF-PDX gave way to the Q400.

And that is where we join Horizon's history in California. If they were to acquire the new Do328's as RWA380 hopes, I could see them rejoining some of these historic California markets (including SMF/Bay Area to SJ Valley and SBP, SBA, SMF, MRY), but not with anything the size of a Q400/E175 or CRJ7. That could also work for EUG/MFR into N. Cal as well.


All thinks I did not know, thanks again for sharing. So BOK to CEC? I'll add it to my served cities list in Oregon. Yes JT did BOK-GOL-BDY-OTH-EUG-PDX on their Cessna 402's IIRC. Bank bags were flown.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
Wingtips56
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:46 am

My correction: Eureka Aero was the predecessor to Air Pacific, not Eureka Flying Service. Here's a dual timetable link: https://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/ik1.htm

@ amcnd
Wings West started with offices in Culver City, and were flying C402s to Mammoth, SMF, SFO and other parts. Funny little WW logo reminiscent of horse shoes. They grew up to Metros with a pretty sharp green livery and actually had flight attendants on the Metros. Tiny little ladies in green uniforms. Didn't last. RM further grew to B99s before becoming American Eagle and getting the Saabs. They ended up HQ'ing at SBP, with an Eagle maintenance base. After RM was drawn down by Eagle (post SJC-hub), and OO took over as UAX from WestAir/Mesa, OO expanded to the Brasilias (some of which were the OE/YV converts), and were flying SMF/SFO/SJC to SBP, SBA, etc. in addition to the reassigned UAx routes. Remember for a while OO flew as Western Express for WA, in a modified WA steel/red/blue livery which continued on after the WA/DL merge, and kept on some of the SkyWest titled Brasilias until they were retired.

I know the SMF-SBP-LAX and SMF-SBA-LAX runs did well. Contour seems to be doing well SMF-SBA now in a recent service revival, but there is room for someone to restore SBP service, with the right size fleet... the current QX fleet is again too big.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:31 pm

Wingtips56 wrote:
My correction: Eureka Aero was the predecessor to Air Pacific, not Eureka Flying Service. Here's a dual timetable link: https://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/ik1.htm

@ amcnd
Wings West started with offices in Culver City, and were flying C402s to Mammoth, SMF, SFO and other parts. Funny little WW logo reminiscent of horse shoes. They grew up to Metros with a pretty sharp green livery and actually had flight attendants on the Metros. Tiny little ladies in green uniforms. Didn't last. RM further grew to B99s before becoming American Eagle and getting the Saabs. They ended up HQ'ing at SBP, with an Eagle maintenance base. After RM was drawn down by Eagle (post SJC-hub), and OO took over as UAX from WestAir/Mesa, OO expanded to the Brasilias (some of which were the OE/YV converts), and were flying SMF/SFO/SJC to SBP, SBA, etc. in addition to the reassigned UAx routes. Remember for a while OO flew as Western Express for WA, in a modified WA steel/red/blue livery which continued on after the WA/DL merge, and kept on some of the SkyWest titled Brasilias until they were retired.

I know the SMF-SBP-LAX and SMF-SBA-LAX runs did well. Contour seems to be doing well SMF-SBA now in a recent service revival, but there is room for someone to restore SBP service, with the right size fleet... the current QX fleet is again too big.


I noticed recently that LF increased their flights to SBA from 1X to 2X daily. Now that LF is beginning LAS-SBP, it would not surprise me if they link SMF to SBP...maybe even OAK-SBP, next Spring.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:02 pm

Contour/LF has to be careful not to grow too fast, like others have...and flamed out But I agree with the possibilities. They are starting SBP-LAS for the upcoming winter season, so that's establishing the beachhead.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:10 pm

Wingtips56 wrote:
Contour/LF has to be careful not to grow too fast, like others have...and flamed out But I agree with the possibilities. They are starting SBP-LAS for the upcoming winter season, so that's establishing the beachhead.


I do agree that LF shouldn't be growing too fast. And I don't think they are growing too terribly quickly at the moment. But it could happen.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:11 pm

Wingtips56 wrote:
WestAir HDQ had moved from STS to Burlingame to Chico.


WestAir HQ moved from Chico to Fresno in 1985. They used what is now the Skywest maintenance hangar and some adjacent old WWII barracks buildings at FAT as the HQ. It remained at FAT even after the Mesa buyout until the UAX contract was given to Skywest in 1997/1998.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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DLSANMan
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:22 am

continental004 wrote:
SAN-SBP is already well served by Amtrak. Not sure who’ll fly this route who isn’t connecting. Those who would choose not to drive would be better off taking the train.


Why would anyone take hours out of their life on Amtrak? I did it once and never again! It’s constantly delayed, shitty service, terrible food selection and wine. The first class product is like Basic economy. I also don’t have time to give for that.

Currently I fly AS SAN FAT then drive the 1.5 hrs just to get over LAX to the Central Coast. Or I fly SAN MRY if I’m heading north of King City. For many of us in the AG industry living in SAN this is extremely valuable. And if you have ever flown FAT or MRY, I personally know over 1/2 of the plane because of the industry. Wine alone is a 74Billon $ industry on the central coast.

The San Luis Obispo wine growing region has 26,400 acres of wine grapes. The number one wine grape variety in San Luis Obispo County is Cabernet Sauvignon with 8,600 acres. Merlot is second with 4,000 acres. There are about 110 wineries in the County.

Paso is California's fastest growing wine region and one of the largest geographic appellations, the 24 square mile territory encompasses more than 26,000 vineyard acres and nearly 200 wineries.

So between the two it covers 65% of the wine industry in California. That’s not even speaking to the rest of the Ag industry on the central coast.

Let’s not forget a second STS flight is launching connecting SAN with more options to the industry along with Oregon’s up and coming wine region of Medford! .

Wine flys free on Alaska! And I would say by the actions, they are connecting it and trying to create a niche market. Kuddos for having the balls to do it and think outside of the box!

More importantly AS has determined they need to differentiate themselves in SAN agains WN. All of the flights dropped except MSP were direct competition to WN and I personally knew it wouldn't last. I fly them every opportunity I can because I want to see them be successful. Became a 75K on them in addition to my DL DM 360 status.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:26 am

It's great to see AS taking advantage of opportunities at the smaller, regional airports. I thought it was wonderful when AS began flying to STS. I'm still holding out for flights to MRY from SEA. I think AS is doing a pretty good job at using the E-175's on most routes.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: AS announces San Luis Obispo from PDX & SAN

Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:39 am

QX flew the original Do328 and gave up on that very quickly. I doubt they would want to try that again, even if it is a better product this time around.
Wings West flew out of SMO up to BIH and MMH and then over to SMF and OAK. Then relocated to LAX and SFO when they started to get into the BE9 and SWM business.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"

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