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Blerg
Topic Author
Posts: 4167
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:09 pm

JU once again upgrades tonight's flight to LJU from Atr to 733, tomorrow both flights are upgraded from Atr to A319/B733.

Seems like Air Serbia is the biggest winner of Adria's demise.
 
Blerg
Topic Author
Posts: 4167
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:11 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
jules48 wrote:
Cannot understand why a small country that relies heavily on tourism let this happen.Plenty more airlines will go soon as predicted and there will be 10-20 major carriers plus low cost left


I can see Wizz air taking up the tourism demand. Internationally backed Wizz Air is taking market share away from small airlines in the region with a product that better matches current demographics and demand. I don’t see why a government would want to fund a small airline against the international LCC powerhouses.


Depends on the market, look at Serbia or Latvia, what would W6 bring that JU and BT don't already? LCC are only good in markets where there is no local airline or when the local dominant player is totally useless. Furthermore, only a handful of routes could actually work on Wizz Air from Ljubljana. After all, they just discontinued winter flights to CRL and LTN.
 
LEJCargo
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:44 am

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:40 pm

Blerg wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
jules48 wrote:
Cannot understand why a small country that relies heavily on tourism let this happen.Plenty more airlines will go soon as predicted and there will be 10-20 major carriers plus low cost left


I can see Wizz air taking up the tourism demand. Internationally backed Wizz Air is taking market share away from small airlines in the region with a product that better matches current demographics and demand. I don’t see why a government would want to fund a small airline against the international LCC powerhouses.


Depends on the market, look at Serbia or Latvia, what would W6 bring that JU and BT don't already? LCC are only good in markets where there is no local airline or when the local dominant player is totally useless. Furthermore, only a handful of routes could actually work on Wizz Air from Ljubljana. After all, they just discontinued winter flights to CRL and LTN.


I agree. There is no way Wizzair finds success from LJU. They rely on countries with a large diaspora around Europe (Serbia, Kosovo, Poland etc.). Slovenians are mostly in Austria, Switzerland and Germany so its within driving range and pointless for a LCC route.

I could see Easyjet try with a LJU-CDG/ORY but thats it.
 
Blerg
Topic Author
Posts: 4167
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:22 pm

LEJCargo wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

I can see Wizz air taking up the tourism demand. Internationally backed Wizz Air is taking market share away from small airlines in the region with a product that better matches current demographics and demand. I don’t see why a government would want to fund a small airline against the international LCC powerhouses.


Depends on the market, look at Serbia or Latvia, what would W6 bring that JU and BT don't already? LCC are only good in markets where there is no local airline or when the local dominant player is totally useless. Furthermore, only a handful of routes could actually work on Wizz Air from Ljubljana. After all, they just discontinued winter flights to CRL and LTN.


I agree. There is no way Wizzair finds success from LJU. They rely on countries with a large diaspora around Europe (Serbia, Kosovo, Poland etc.). Slovenians are mostly in Austria, Switzerland and Germany so its within driving range and pointless for a LCC route.

I could see Easyjet try with a LJU-CDG/ORY but thats it.


Same here, maybe LJU gets a few flights from Wizz Air's western European cities like Dortmund or Eindhoven but that's about it. Then again maybe easyJet could do well from Manchester.
 
Toinou
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:21 am

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:48 pm

LEJCargo wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

I can see Wizz air taking up the tourism demand. Internationally backed Wizz Air is taking market share away from small airlines in the region with a product that better matches current demographics and demand. I don’t see why a government would want to fund a small airline against the international LCC powerhouses.


Depends on the market, look at Serbia or Latvia, what would W6 bring that JU and BT don't already? LCC are only good in markets where there is no local airline or when the local dominant player is totally useless. Furthermore, only a handful of routes could actually work on Wizz Air from Ljubljana. After all, they just discontinued winter flights to CRL and LTN.


I agree. There is no way Wizzair finds success from LJU. They rely on countries with a large diaspora around Europe (Serbia, Kosovo, Poland etc.). Slovenians are mostly in Austria, Switzerland and Germany so its within driving range and pointless for a LCC route.

I could see Easyjet try with a LJU-CDG/ORY but thats it.


Slovenians in Switzerland ? Less than 10'000, so not really a good opportunity for an airline.
This is probably the main for a LCC in Slovenia : there is not really any huge market, which means that carriers offering connections have an advantage as they can aggregate demand form many places which usually low-cost are not making.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5786
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:16 pm

LEJCargo wrote:
I agree. There is no way Wizzair finds success from LJU. They rely on countries with a large diaspora around Europe (Serbia, Kosovo, Poland etc.). Slovenians are mostly in Austria, Switzerland and Germany so its within driving range and pointless for a LCC route.

I could see Easyjet try with a LJU-CDG/ORY but thats it.


I disagree. Slovenia has a lot of city-break potential (Ljubljana, Bled Lake...). This is the perfect market for an ULCC like Ryanair or Wizzair (instead of U2) stimulating the market by making it the destination of the season.

Location at macro level is excellent. Zagreb has little low-cost competition (and no ULCC) so they could target also the Zagreb market. Also Rijeka (specially in winter where RJK is almost deserted). And Trieste/Udine and Klagenfurt (however TRS has a few Ryanair routes). For instance a place like MAD has only Iberia from ZAG - read expensive and low-frequency in winter - and VCE as the closest airports, so a LJU-MAD on W6/FR would capture and stimulate the regional traffic in both directions.
 
Blerg
Topic Author
Posts: 4167
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:27 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
LEJCargo wrote:
I agree. There is no way Wizzair finds success from LJU. They rely on countries with a large diaspora around Europe (Serbia, Kosovo, Poland etc.). Slovenians are mostly in Austria, Switzerland and Germany so its within driving range and pointless for a LCC route.

I could see Easyjet try with a LJU-CDG/ORY but thats it.


I disagree. Slovenia has a lot of city-break potential (Ljubljana, Bled Lake...). This is the perfect market for an ULCC like Ryanair or Wizzair (instead of U2) stimulating the market by making it the destination of the season.

Location at macro level is excellent. Zagreb has little low-cost competition (and no ULCC) so they could target also the Zagreb market. Also Rijeka (specially in winter where RJK is almost deserted). And Trieste/Udine and Klagenfurt (however TRS has a few Ryanair routes). For instance a place like MAD has only Iberia from ZAG - read expensive and low-frequency in winter - and VCE as the closest airports, so a LJU-MAD on W6/FR would capture and stimulate the regional traffic in both directions.


And what happens once Ljubljana is no longer the destination of the season? Fact of life is that across the old Communist East, Wizz Air has thrived in expat markets. That's the core market they are after.
 
xmp125a
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:38 pm

Re: Adria (JP) threatened with jet impounding

Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:11 pm

LEJCargo wrote:
Blerg wrote:

Interesting, I guess we won't know until tomorrow morning. Unfortunately I fear their issues are just too big to be saved right now unless someone is willing to pump more money into them. Also, those 4 million they are asking won't last that long. How long has it been since they got €4.5 million for those Brussels flights?


That was in June I think. The problem is that the overall debt is estimated to be 35-50 million € and those 4 mil. are just to provide salaries and pay off some essential debt, so it will not save anything.

Edit: Newspaper "Finance" is now reporting that flight from CPH was the final flight of JP.


The analysis just done by Finance shows that total debt may be close to 90 mil EUR which is a staggering number. The reason for voluntary cancellation of all flights except one LJU-FRA-LJU per day is that nobody is willing to provide fuel without prepayment, and they don't have funds to pre-pay for fuel. The sole flight they make is operated by WDL, who also requests prepayments, but somehow they manage to scrap the money together for that one.

The situation is absurd, their flight still show up in IATA reservation systems and you actually can buy tickets from other airlines which include AA flights (that are not operating for four days now). And still, the CAA did not pull their licence, which is really really absurd. They gave them A WEEK!

I am also flabbergasted that other carriers (incl. codeshared flights operated by AA) are willing to play this game - since they are then saddled with stuck passengers! And since the flights for the weekend are NOT YET cancelled it is impossible to get the rebooking even if you bought your ticket from e.g. Lufthansa. They literally force you to be stuck mid route before they help you , because AA is cancelling flights no more than 1-2 days in advance.

And apparently the sole WDL-operated flight serves only to prevent IATA or StarAlliance (article was not clear on this) from expelling them!
 
LJ
Posts: 5354
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:25 pm

debonair wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I am impressed that LH is still selling JP flights on their website. Maybe they don't care as when JP goes bankrupt they will just introduce their own and reschedule passengers onto those?


Not only LH - LX as well. swiss suspended the sale of Lugano only until September 27th - after this date you can still book flights "op. by adria airways", even all SAAB200 seems to be repossessed.


Which probably means that the flight will be operated by someone else. If you buy a ticket on LH/LX stock and no aircraft is turning up, LH/LX will have to pay you delay/cancellation compensation due to EU261. I doubt that LH/LX are in the business of paying compensation.
 
HBChris
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:51 am

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:55 pm

LJ wrote:
Which probably means that the flight will be operated by someone else. If you buy a ticket on LH/LX stock and no aircraft is turning up, LH/LX will have to pay you delay/cancellation compensation due to EU261. I doubt that LH/LX are in the business of paying compensation.

Especially in the case of LX, I don't think that they are able to simply find someone else to operate the flights on short notice. That's because only few aircraft types are able to fly into LUG and even the pilots require special training as far as I know. For the flights that Adria operates for LH or OS, this should be easier but even there it might take some time.

But in any case, like you said, there is no risk for the customers when you buy a ticket for a LX/LH/OS flight operated by JP (wet-lease).
 
xmp125a
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:38 pm

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:39 pm

LJ wrote:
debonair wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I am impressed that LH is still selling JP flights on their website. Maybe they don't care as when JP goes bankrupt they will just introduce their own and reschedule passengers onto those?


Not only LH - LX as well. swiss suspended the sale of Lugano only until September 27th - after this date you can still book flights "op. by adria airways", even all SAAB200 seems to be repossessed.


Which probably means that the flight will be operated by someone else. If you buy a ticket on LH/LX stock and no aircraft is turning up, LH/LX will have to pay you delay/cancellation compensation due to EU261. I doubt that LH/LX are in the business of paying compensation.


I assume you are not aware that this is exactly what is going with LH codeshare flights from/to ljubljana, operated by Adria. For four days now, most flights are cancelled. Since they are cancelled at maximum 24 hours in advance, and LH is not flying their own aircrafts to LJU instead, they are probably incurring massive penalties that they will have to pay themselves, as AA is bankrupt, albeit not officially.
 
Blerg
Topic Author
Posts: 4167
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:20 am

xmp125a wrote:
LJ wrote:
debonair wrote:

Not only LH - LX as well. swiss suspended the sale of Lugano only until September 27th - after this date you can still book flights "op. by adria airways", even all SAAB200 seems to be repossessed.


Which probably means that the flight will be operated by someone else. If you buy a ticket on LH/LX stock and no aircraft is turning up, LH/LX will have to pay you delay/cancellation compensation due to EU261. I doubt that LH/LX are in the business of paying compensation.


I assume you are not aware that this is exactly what is going with LH codeshare flights from/to ljubljana, operated by Adria. For four days now, most flights are cancelled. Since they are cancelled at maximum 24 hours in advance, and LH is not flying their own aircrafts to LJU instead, they are probably incurring massive penalties that they will have to pay themselves, as AA is bankrupt, albeit not officially.


But there is a single daily flight from LJU to FRA so I guess LH just reschedules all of its passengers onto those flights?
 
xmp125a
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:38 pm

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:56 am

Blerg wrote:
xmp125a wrote:
LJ wrote:

Which probably means that the flight will be operated by someone else. If you buy a ticket on LH/LX stock and no aircraft is turning up, LH/LX will have to pay you delay/cancellation compensation due to EU261. I doubt that LH/LX are in the business of paying compensation.


I assume you are not aware that this is exactly what is going with LH codeshare flights from/to ljubljana, operated by Adria. For four days now, most flights are cancelled. Since they are cancelled at maximum 24 hours in advance, and LH is not flying their own aircrafts to LJU instead, they are probably incurring massive penalties that they will have to pay themselves, as AA is bankrupt, albeit not officially.


But there is a single daily flight from LJU to FRA so I guess LH just reschedules all of its passengers onto those flights?


I don't exactly know how many codeshared flights Adria operated daily, but I'd say 10+ ... Bumping them onto single daily flight is theoretically possible, but

1) Just shows how terrible load factors are at Adria
2) With that single flight being flown on the evening, people are still delayed more than 3 hours, so penalty has to be paid, and the lowest penalty is still 2x higher than price of Adria ticket on those routes, so LH is losing money per passenger, significant amount if these people miss their intercontinental flights (600 EUR per passenger + costs of finding alternatives!)
3) Even if somehow they would not be delayed, the major changes in the itinerary are done only 24 hrs in advance, instead at least 2 weeks before = penalty
4) Lufthansa keeps telling passengers that they "will contact you when situation changes" because flights are scheduled as operating normally, so there is definitive brand cost for LH in this as well.

There was also an article in 24ur, which is a mainstream Slovenian news portal, which claimed that they got the insider info that the money for wetleasing Adria's aircraft to other operators (Lufthansa, Austrian, Luxair) has been paid in accounts that do not belong to Adria, and if true that is a major scandal and outright criminal behaviour at Adria. The article said that the source is from one of the airlines who paid Adria, and that these airlines are flabbergasted why Adria is in such dire straits, since these flights had good load factors, and there was substantial money paid to Adria to keep them operating. Although annoying to passengers, cancellations of poorly loaded flights and joining of flights **should** also help Adria's bottom line, so the fact that they are basically out of money, is surprise and alarm to anyone that deals with them.

So my wild speculation was that Star Alliance was perhaps keen to push Adria into the bankruptcy by leaking that news. But they don't know how slow can slovenian agencies and courts be...

As thing stand now this is very absurd situation that can continue for weeks, as Adria could submit something idiotic to CAA on wednesday, they would again take a week to study it, ask them for additional clarifications, etc. I mean they COULD, not saying that they will, but even this extension now is absurd.

So the bottom line is: you can still buy the ticket from/to ljubljana from major airlines for the days ahead, the flight you booked certainly will not operate, you will be rescheduled and delayed, and you may claim compensation that would cover majority of the ticket price! So here is idea for cheap but very adventurous passengers who are willing to invest some money and don't mind when and where their actual flight departs :) AFAIK marketing airline and operating airline are both responsible for compensation, so you fight your claim with Lufthansa (who has the reputation to maintain) and let them deal with Adria which will go bankrupt before paying anything to Lufthansa :)
 
LJ
Posts: 5354
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:37 am

xmp125a wrote:
LJ wrote:
debonair wrote:

Not only LH - LX as well. swiss suspended the sale of Lugano only until September 27th - after this date you can still book flights "op. by adria airways", even all SAAB200 seems to be repossessed.


Which probably means that the flight will be operated by someone else. If you buy a ticket on LH/LX stock and no aircraft is turning up, LH/LX will have to pay you delay/cancellation compensation due to EU261. I doubt that LH/LX are in the business of paying compensation.


I assume you are not aware that this is exactly what is going with LH codeshare flights from/to ljubljana, operated by Adria. For four days now, most flights are cancelled. Since they are cancelled at maximum 24 hours in advance, and LH is not flying their own aircrafts to LJU instead, they are probably incurring massive penalties that they will have to pay themselves, as AA is bankrupt, albeit not officially.


I'm aware of this, but LH isn't going to let this go indefinitely. They're selling tickets at EUR435 return (taxes included) and they will not pay EUR 250 one way (EUR 500 return) for a long time (if so one could make a lot of money at present). Either they have a plan (which just needs time to implement) or they are stupid, I'll go for the first option.

xmp125a wrote:
There was also an article in 24ur, which is a mainstream Slovenian news portal, which claimed that they got the insider info that the money for wetleasing Adria's aircraft to other operators (Lufthansa, Austrian, Luxair) has been paid in accounts that do not belong to Adria, and if true that is a major scandal and outright criminal behaviour at Adria.


Why would this be criminal behavior? It's quite plausible that one party (in this case LH if true) seeks guarantees from a company which in a bad financial situation to ensure that the (financial) commitments are met in case of a bankruptcy. Thus the money is put into an escrow account. It's just protecting yourself against non-compliance of the other contract party. As long as the amounts in the accounts do not surpass the contractual amounts and the funds are released upon the terms stated in the contracted, there is nothing illegal/criminal about this. Just ordinary business practice when dealing with a company in financial distress. It'becomes criminal when there is no agreement between, for example, LH and Adria about putting the money in a separate bank account. However, I wouldn't think that a company like LH would work along with such an arrangement as they can be held liable as well should it be illegal.
 
xmp125a
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:38 pm

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:08 am

LJ wrote:
I'm aware of this, but LH isn't going to let this go indefinitely. They're selling tickets at EUR435 return (taxes included) and they will not pay EUR 250 one way (EUR 500 return) for a long time (if so one could make a lot of money at present). Either they have a plan (which just needs time to implement) or they are stupid, I'll go for the first option.


I am flabbergasted that they actually keep doing this for so long (today is the fifth day), and that they are not proactive (e.g. rebooking the passengers days in advance even though the flights are not officially cancelled). If your flight was 3 days in advance, they told you to stand by because their partner airline is operating the flight.

xmp125a wrote:
There was also an article in 24ur, which is a mainstream Slovenian news portal, which claimed that they got the insider info that the money for wetleasing Adria's aircraft to other operators (Lufthansa, Austrian, Luxair) has been paid in accounts that do not belong to Adria, and if true that is a major scandal and outright criminal behaviour at Adria.


Why would this be criminal behavior? It's quite plausible that one party (in this case LH if true) seeks guarantees from a company which in a bad financial situation to ensure that the (financial) commitments are met in case of a bankruptcy. Thus the money is put into an escrow account. It's just protecting yourself against non-compliance of the other contract party.


You assume Adria was paid in advance for the wet leasing of their aircraft to Lufthansa? If services have been rendered by the time of payment, there is absolutely no need to put the money anywhere else than into the accounts under company's control - otherwise you are defrauding the creditors, which are waiting to seize money from company bank accounts. Slovenian law is very strict on that.
 
Blerg
Topic Author
Posts: 4167
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:14 am

xmp125a wrote:
Blerg wrote:
xmp125a wrote:

I assume you are not aware that this is exactly what is going with LH codeshare flights from/to ljubljana, operated by Adria. For four days now, most flights are cancelled. Since they are cancelled at maximum 24 hours in advance, and LH is not flying their own aircrafts to LJU instead, they are probably incurring massive penalties that they will have to pay themselves, as AA is bankrupt, albeit not officially.


But there is a single daily flight from LJU to FRA so I guess LH just reschedules all of its passengers onto those flights?


I don't exactly know how many codeshared flights Adria operated daily, but I'd say 10+ ... Bumping them onto single daily flight is theoretically possible, but

1) Just shows how terrible load factors are at Adria
2) With that single flight being flown on the evening, people are still delayed more than 3 hours, so penalty has to be paid, and the lowest penalty is still 2x higher than price of Adria ticket on those routes, so LH is losing money per passenger, significant amount if these people miss their intercontinental flights (600 EUR per passenger + costs of finding alternatives!)
3) Even if somehow they would not be delayed, the major changes in the itinerary are done only 24 hrs in advance, instead at least 2 weeks before = penalty
4) Lufthansa keeps telling passengers that they "will contact you when situation changes" because flights are scheduled as operating normally, so there is definitive brand cost for LH in this as well.

There was also an article in 24ur, which is a mainstream Slovenian news portal, which claimed that they got the insider info that the money for wetleasing Adria's aircraft to other operators (Lufthansa, Austrian, Luxair) has been paid in accounts that do not belong to Adria, and if true that is a major scandal and outright criminal behaviour at Adria. The article said that the source is from one of the airlines who paid Adria, and that these airlines are flabbergasted why Adria is in such dire straits, since these flights had good load factors, and there was substantial money paid to Adria to keep them operating. Although annoying to passengers, cancellations of poorly loaded flights and joining of flights **should** also help Adria's bottom line, so the fact that they are basically out of money, is surprise and alarm to anyone that deals with them.

So my wild speculation was that Star Alliance was perhaps keen to push Adria into the bankruptcy by leaking that news. But they don't know how slow can slovenian agencies and courts be...

As thing stand now this is very absurd situation that can continue for weeks, as Adria could submit something idiotic to CAA on wednesday, they would again take a week to study it, ask them for additional clarifications, etc. I mean they COULD, not saying that they will, but even this extension now is absurd.

So the bottom line is: you can still buy the ticket from/to ljubljana from major airlines for the days ahead, the flight you booked certainly will not operate, you will be rescheduled and delayed, and you may claim compensation that would cover majority of the ticket price! So here is idea for cheap but very adventurous passengers who are willing to invest some money and don't mind when and where their actual flight departs :) AFAIK marketing airline and operating airline are both responsible for compensation, so you fight your claim with Lufthansa (who has the reputation to maintain) and let them deal with Adria which will go bankrupt before paying anything to Lufthansa :)


That's crazy, I guess they were paying straight into 4K accounts? I do wonder if something will happen with all this or if they will let it slide.

I still don't get it why LH Group has not responded to JP's demise, they haven't announced a single flight on their own metal to Slovenia while almost all of their competitors have already done so!
 
xmp125a
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:38 pm

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:46 am

Blerg wrote:
I still don't get it why LH Group has not responded to JP's demise, they haven't announced a single flight on their own metal to Slovenia while almost all of their competitors have already done so!


Yes. This is the biggest mystery of all.
 
artflyer
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:05 am

Maybe they don't have an appropriate metal available?

Maybe it makes little sense from a financial perspective to fly there on their own metal? Adria had lower costs and still was selling tickets on these routes below costs, hence financial difficulties. For a long time it benefited LH as it was geting Slovenian transfer pax in MUC and FRA on the expense of Adria's losses and maybe LH is just waiting for it to keep going, ie. the Slovenian government to lend a helping hand either to Adria or by way of PSO to somebody else?

Maybe LH just reroutes these pax on OU or LO, the other star airlines flying to LJU, to sooth the situation temporarily?
 
xmp125a
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:38 pm

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:41 pm

artflyer wrote:
Maybe they don't have an appropriate metal available?

Maybe it makes little sense from a financial perspective to fly there on their own metal? Adria had lower costs and still was selling tickets on these routes below costs, hence financial difficulties. For a long time it benefited LH as it was geting Slovenian transfer pax in MUC and FRA on the expense of Adria's losses and maybe LH is just waiting for it to keep going, ie. the Slovenian government to lend a helping hand either to Adria or by way of PSO to somebody else?

Maybe LH just reroutes these pax on OU or LO, the other star airlines flying to LJU, to sooth the situation temporarily?


If I remember correctly, there are no star alliance flights in or out LJU that would not be operated by Adria. So basically star alliance is cut off from LJU with exception of that one single WDL operated return flight to FRA.

Some new numbers came to light today via Finance daily: Adria owed EUR 7 million in passenger compensation (for flights they sold tickets and did not fly) at the end of 2018 and apparently this number got close to EUR 10 million after first half of 2019. Just to compare, their revenues were EUR 180 million.
 
Blerg
Topic Author
Posts: 4167
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:58 pm

xmp125a wrote:
artflyer wrote:
Maybe they don't have an appropriate metal available?

Maybe it makes little sense from a financial perspective to fly there on their own metal? Adria had lower costs and still was selling tickets on these routes below costs, hence financial difficulties. For a long time it benefited LH as it was geting Slovenian transfer pax in MUC and FRA on the expense of Adria's losses and maybe LH is just waiting for it to keep going, ie. the Slovenian government to lend a helping hand either to Adria or by way of PSO to somebody else?

Maybe LH just reroutes these pax on OU or LO, the other star airlines flying to LJU, to sooth the situation temporarily?


If I remember correctly, there are no star alliance flights in or out LJU that would not be operated by Adria. So basically star alliance is cut off from LJU with exception of that one single WDL operated return flight to FRA.

Some new numbers came to light today via Finance daily: Adria owed EUR 7 million in passenger compensation (for flights they sold tickets and did not fly) at the end of 2018 and apparently this number got close to EUR 10 million after first half of 2019. Just to compare, their revenues were EUR 180 million.


Small correction, there is no LH Group in LJU. LOT has daily flights from WAW and Turkish Airlines has double daily flights from IST.
 
LJ
Posts: 5354
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:32 pm

xmp125a wrote:
LJ wrote:
Why would this be criminal behavior? It's quite plausible that one party (in this case LH if true) seeks guarantees from a company which in a bad financial situation to ensure that the (financial) commitments are met in case of a bankruptcy. Thus the money is put into an escrow account. It's just protecting yourself against non-compliance of the other contract party.


You assume Adria was paid in advance for the wet leasing of their aircraft to Lufthansa? If services have been rendered by the time of payment, there is absolutely no need to put the money anywhere else than into the accounts under company's control - otherwise you are defrauding the creditors, which are waiting to seize money from company bank accounts. Slovenian law is very strict on that.


However, your assumption is that there is no contractual obligation underlying the existence of such an escrow account. If so, it wouldn't be Adria alone who would be liable and run reputation risk (as the other party would be aware that it's not Adrias account). I give LH and others the benefit of the doubt in this respect as they would be fools to participate in such a structure.
 
artflyer
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:55 pm

Not really clear what you mean. In law it is called remmittance. The creditor authorises the debtor to pay to an account of a third party as if that would be paid to the creditor itself and authorises the third party to accept this payment on creditor's behalf. That's it. The debtor doesn't care and doesn't have to care about the nature of the relationship between the creditor and the third party. By paying to a third party it just discharges debt towards the creditor.

Actually what would be the point of putting any money on escrow by LH? That would not do any good financial stability of Adria so from this perspective for Adria a down payment would be as good as upfront payment to escrow and at the same time I guess there is no risk of LH not paying after the service was rendered.
 
Blerg
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:57 pm

As the uncertainty continues. Air Serbia has sent its 733 tonight while the A319 is scheduled to fly on Sunday and Monday to LJU.
 
xmp125a
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:34 pm

artflyer wrote:
Not really clear what you mean. In law it is called remmittance. The creditor authorises the debtor to pay to an account of a third party as if that would be paid to the creditor itself and authorises the third party to accept this payment on creditor's behalf. That's it. The debtor doesn't care and doesn't have to care about the nature of the relationship between the creditor and the third party. By paying to a third party it just discharges debt towards the creditor.


It is all ok, unless you are doing this to avoid to pay other creditors, that have blocked your bank accounts because of valid claims of nonpayment. As far as I know, this is how Sloveniacontrol was squeezing their dues out of Adria - Adria simply did not pay their bills.

Several times prior accounts of AA were blocked because there was not enough money to pay all the creditor claims. This goes back for months. Check here:

https://www.stop-neplacniki.si/adria-airways-dd/

Currently, ALL of Adria's bank accounts in slovenia are frozen solid (blocked) due to nonpayment. If they are paying WDL Aviation via remittances, they are commiting fraud.

What is going on with AA is simply unheard of, as any decent company would seek bankruptcy protection months ago. But obviously their shady owners (4K) are trying to keep the charade going as long as possible. Today they somehow managed to wire "10.000-20.000 EUR"to Petrol, local supplier of kerosene, apparently to try to lift some of their A/C off the ground tomorrow and pretend to resume normal operation. It is sufficient to say that this is chump change and that they cannot make return flights with that amount of kerosene even with the remaining 6 aircraft, as they would be dry before coming back.

Few hours after that money transfer they suspended all flights except of the usual one LJU-FRA-LJU for weekend. I hope that Slovenian CAA called them and warned them not even try to fly with 10K worth of kerosene tomorrow.
 
xmp125a
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:45 pm

LJ wrote:
I give LH and others the benefit of the doubt in this respect as they would be fools to participate in such a structure.


Given that LH is willing participant in that charade (Austrian has broken the ranks and announced that they are sending their own planes instead of grounded AA planes next week, albeit I am not sure that they include LJU in their plans), I am giving them very little benefit of the doubt. As someone calculated, you can even fly for free & get a small profit if you buy LH ticket to LJU and back and then claim compensation, so it must cost LH some serious money now, and they are still not pulling the plug.
 
Blerg
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:59 pm

Here is an interesting read which really shows how messed up the whole JP-4K saga has become. I wonder if these actions are criminal!

Source is in Slovenian but you can use Google Translate:
https://siol.net/posel-danes/novice/drz ... one-508166
 
Blerg
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:59 pm

xmp125a wrote:
LJ wrote:
I give LH and others the benefit of the doubt in this respect as they would be fools to participate in such a structure.


Given that LH is willing participant in that charade (Austrian has broken the ranks and announced that they are sending their own planes instead of grounded AA planes next week, albeit I am not sure that they include LJU in their plans), I am giving them very little benefit of the doubt. As someone calculated, you can even fly for free & get a small profit if you buy LH ticket to LJU and back and then claim compensation, so it must cost LH some serious money now, and they are still not pulling the plug.


Sorry, I didn't quite understand it, where is Austrian sending its own planes? To LJU or to destinations that were operated by JP leased planes?
 
patrickjp93
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:04 pm

They left privatization of a Slovenian airline to a German firm with financial ties to Lufthansa? Pffft, brilliant...
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:14 pm

Blerg wrote:
xmp125a wrote:
LJ wrote:
I give LH and others the benefit of the doubt in this respect as they would be fools to participate in such a structure.


Given that LH is willing participant in that charade (Austrian has broken the ranks and announced that they are sending their own planes instead of grounded AA planes next week, albeit I am not sure that they include LJU in their plans), I am giving them very little benefit of the doubt. As someone calculated, you can even fly for free & get a small profit if you buy LH ticket to LJU and back and then claim compensation, so it must cost LH some serious money now, and they are still not pulling the plug.


Sorry, I didn't quite understand it, where is Austrian sending its own planes? To LJU or to destinations that were operated by JP leased planes?


I believe to destinations that were served by JP planes. For example KSC.
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
Blerg
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:22 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
Blerg wrote:
xmp125a wrote:

Given that LH is willing participant in that charade (Austrian has broken the ranks and announced that they are sending their own planes instead of grounded AA planes next week, albeit I am not sure that they include LJU in their plans), I am giving them very little benefit of the doubt. As someone calculated, you can even fly for free & get a small profit if you buy LH ticket to LJU and back and then claim compensation, so it must cost LH some serious money now, and they are still not pulling the plug.


Sorry, I didn't quite understand it, where is Austrian sending its own planes? To LJU or to destinations that were operated by JP leased planes?


I believe to destinations that were served by JP planes. For example KSC.


Ah yes, that makes sense. I remember OS used to cancel destinations such as KSC or BLQ but not anymore. I guess now that summer is as good as gone, there are less charter flights so there is spare capacity.
 
xmp125a
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:47 pm

Blerg wrote:
xmp125a wrote:
LJ wrote:
I give LH and others the benefit of the doubt in this respect as they would be fools to participate in such a structure.


Given that LH is willing participant in that charade (Austrian has broken the ranks and announced that they are sending their own planes instead of grounded AA planes next week, albeit I am not sure that they include LJU in their plans), I am giving them very little benefit of the doubt. As someone calculated, you can even fly for free & get a small profit if you buy LH ticket to LJU and back and then claim compensation, so it must cost LH some serious money now, and they are still not pulling the plug.


Sorry, I didn't quite understand it, where is Austrian sending its own planes? To LJU or to destinations that were operated by JP leased planes?


Their tweet on the topic was unclear. They mentioned "Adria airways" by name, and then apologized that there may be some further cancellations until service is restored. One may read that tweet as that they will fly to LJU as well, but on the other hand, it may be just a wishful thinking. The lines for which they wet-leased AA planes were not codeshared (eg Vienna-Moldova or was it Romania?) so I assume there is no need to mention the actual airline when you announce restoration of service.

Oh, here it is: https://publish.twitter.com/?url=https: ... 4117394438
 
Blerg
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:47 pm

xmp125a wrote:
Blerg wrote:
xmp125a wrote:

Given that LH is willing participant in that charade (Austrian has broken the ranks and announced that they are sending their own planes instead of grounded AA planes next week, albeit I am not sure that they include LJU in their plans), I am giving them very little benefit of the doubt. As someone calculated, you can even fly for free & get a small profit if you buy LH ticket to LJU and back and then claim compensation, so it must cost LH some serious money now, and they are still not pulling the plug.


Sorry, I didn't quite understand it, where is Austrian sending its own planes? To LJU or to destinations that were operated by JP leased planes?


Their tweet on the topic was unclear. They mentioned "Adria airways" by name, and then apologized that there may be some further cancellations until service is restored. One may read that tweet as that they will fly to LJU as well, but on the other hand, it may be just a wishful thinking. The lines for which they wet-leased AA planes were not codeshared (eg Vienna-Moldova or was it Romania?) so I assume there is no need to mention the actual airline when you announce restoration of service.

Oh, here it is: https://publish.twitter.com/?url=https: ... 4117394438


From the top of my head, the CRJ flew to Kosice, Warsaw, Bologna, Chisinau and Belgrade. Don't know if I missed any other ones.
 
AirMitko
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:16 pm

OS flights 805/6 to Sofia scheduled on CR9/JP were operated by Austrian with DH4 and 320 since this tuesday.
AB6 313 318/19/20/2N/21 332/3 343/5/6 359 388 717 733/4/5/6/G/8/9/M8 74E/4/8 752/3 763 772/3 788/9 AN4 AT4/7 AR1/8 141/2/3 CNJ CR2/7/9/K CS1/3 DHT/4 D28/38 ER3/4 E70/75/90/95 FRJ F50/70/100 IL8/9 J32/41 L4T M82/3 TU3/5 SF3 S20 SU9 NDE TRN
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:35 pm

xmp125a wrote:
Blerg wrote:
xmp125a wrote:

Given that LH is willing participant in that charade (Austrian has broken the ranks and announced that they are sending their own planes instead of grounded AA planes next week, albeit I am not sure that they include LJU in their plans), I am giving them very little benefit of the doubt. As someone calculated, you can even fly for free & get a small profit if you buy LH ticket to LJU and back and then claim compensation, so it must cost LH some serious money now, and they are still not pulling the plug.


Sorry, I didn't quite understand it, where is Austrian sending its own planes? To LJU or to destinations that were operated by JP leased planes?


Their tweet on the topic was unclear. They mentioned "Adria airways" by name, and then apologized that there may be some further cancellations until service is restored. One may read that tweet as that they will fly to LJU as well, but on the other hand, it may be just a wishful thinking. The lines for which they wet-leased AA planes were not codeshared (eg Vienna-Moldova or was it Romania?) so I assume there is no need to mention the actual airline when you announce restoration of service.

Oh, here it is: https://publish.twitter.com/?url=https: ... 4117394438

Sorry, but why do you insist on using "AA" for Adria Airways, when its code is JP?
 
Blerg
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:41 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
xmp125a wrote:
Blerg wrote:

Sorry, I didn't quite understand it, where is Austrian sending its own planes? To LJU or to destinations that were operated by JP leased planes?


Their tweet on the topic was unclear. They mentioned "Adria airways" by name, and then apologized that there may be some further cancellations until service is restored. One may read that tweet as that they will fly to LJU as well, but on the other hand, it may be just a wishful thinking. The lines for which they wet-leased AA planes were not codeshared (eg Vienna-Moldova or was it Romania?) so I assume there is no need to mention the actual airline when you announce restoration of service.

Oh, here it is: https://publish.twitter.com/?url=https: ... 4117394438

Sorry, but why do you insist on using "AA" for Adria Airways, when its code is JP?


He's 'insisting' on it because that's the two letter code they use for Adria in Slovenia when writing on it, the same way many use AS for Air Serbia despite their code being JU.
 
debonair
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:51 pm

According to their latest PR, September 30th will see the resumption of MUC/VIE/BRU/ZRH/TIA services, on top to FRA. All flights are operated in the late afternoon; doing math right, JP needs at least 3 active a/c...
 
Blerg
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:53 pm

debonair wrote:
According to their latest PR, September 30th will see the resumption of MUC/VIE/BRU/ZRH/TIA services, on top to FRA. All flights are operated in the late afternoon; doing math right, JP needs at least 3 active a/c...


From what I read/heard, Tirana will be operated only one way (LJU-TIA). My guess is that they don't want to bring passengers to LJU since there is nowhere to connect to.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:50 am

Blerg wrote:
And what happens once Ljubljana is no longer the destination of the season? Fact of life is that across the old Communist East, Wizz Air has thrived in expat markets. That's the core market they are after.


It is about creating momentum and making LJU another European capital that people gets used to go to for city-breaks, stag parties, etc. If there are no low-cost, non-stop routes people simply don't go, when you live in London or Brussels and you have +100 non-stop low-cost routes in Europe to choose from.

For instance Ryanair has been flying Valencia-Trieste for quite a while (with very high loads), so I can only imagine a lot of that traffic comes from SLO, considering LJU has no links to Spain. So likely even something like VLC-LJU would also be feasible, not to mention MAD-LJU or BCN-LJU.

W6 is not only after VFR markets anymore, otherwise they wouldn't announce routes like Luton-Tenerife the other day.
 
Blerg
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:23 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
And what happens once Ljubljana is no longer the destination of the season? Fact of life is that across the old Communist East, Wizz Air has thrived in expat markets. That's the core market they are after.


It is about creating momentum and making LJU another European capital that people gets used to go to for city-breaks, stag parties, etc. If there are no low-cost, non-stop routes people simply don't go, when you live in London or Brussels and you have +100 non-stop low-cost routes in Europe to choose from.

For instance Ryanair has been flying Valencia-Trieste for quite a while (with very high loads), so I can only imagine a lot of that traffic comes from SLO, considering LJU has no links to Spain. So likely even something like VLC-LJU would also be feasible, not to mention MAD-LJU or BCN-LJU.

W6 is not only after VFR markets anymore, otherwise they wouldn't announce routes like Luton-Tenerife the other day.


I don't think Slovenia is looking to become the next Riga or Krakow where people just go to get wasted or party hard. I guess that's why there wasn't so much interest in encouraging Wizz Air to expand to such an extent.

Wizz Air had to stop relying on VFR the moment they entered the western European markets. They weren't that successful when they tried flying within eastern Europe, I think their BUD-SOF will fail the moment LO launches their own flights, the same way they failed on BUD-OTP.
 
xmp125a
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:38 pm

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:12 pm

Blerg wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
xmp125a wrote:

Their tweet on the topic was unclear. They mentioned "Adria airways" by name, and then apologized that there may be some further cancellations until service is restored. One may read that tweet as that they will fly to LJU as well, but on the other hand, it may be just a wishful thinking. The lines for which they wet-leased AA planes were not codeshared (eg Vienna-Moldova or was it Romania?) so I assume there is no need to mention the actual airline when you announce restoration of service.

Oh, here it is: https://publish.twitter.com/?url=https: ... 4117394438

Sorry, but why do you insist on using "AA" for Adria Airways, when its code is JP?


He's 'insisting' on it because that's the two letter code they use for Adria in Slovenia when writing on it, the same way many use AS for Air Serbia despite their code being JU.


Yes. Basically no one in Slovenia uses JP when referring to Adria Airways. It is not as straightforward as LH for Lufthansa. And Aria Airways callsign is, unsuprisingly, "ADRIA" :)

BTW, the saga goes on. There are still departures for JP planes announced for Tuesday... https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airp ... departures
They have just being fined for selling tickets for flights they should have known that are impossible to deliver...

Hell, I can buy ticket for tomorrow afternoon as well, even though the flights in the morning are cancelled. Amazing.
 
debonair
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:10 pm

And swiss will restart SAAB2000 op. by JP operations tomorrow on September 30th 2019, good luck!
 
xmp125a
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:40 am

debonair wrote:
And swiss will restart SAAB2000 op. by JP operations tomorrow on September 30th 2019, good luck!


JP306 is announced to be flown by CRJ7 (S5-AAZ). So that is perhaps the flight for which they scraped the money together on thursday (paid "between 10K and 20K" to Petrol for fuel). That one may actually depart, because it is one of the very few flights that have assigned tail number.

Yesterday apparently Adria flew Slovenian handball team home from Paris on a chartered flight with tail number S5-AFA (paid by Palma tour operator, definitely as marketing gimmick), so perhaps they got some change necessary to buy some more fuel for couple of flights today.
 
Blerg
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:17 am

xmp125a wrote:
debonair wrote:
And swiss will restart SAAB2000 op. by JP operations tomorrow on September 30th 2019, good luck!


JP306 is announced to be flown by CRJ7 (S5-AAZ). So that is perhaps the flight for which they scraped the money together on thursday (paid "between 10K and 20K" to Petrol for fuel). That one may actually depart, because it is one of the very few flights that have assigned tail number.

Yesterday apparently Adria flew Slovenian handball team home from Paris on a chartered flight with tail number S5-AFA (paid by Palma tour operator, definitely as marketing gimmick), so perhaps they got some change necessary to buy some more fuel for couple of flights today.


Even if they managed to find some funds to operate these few flights, I still think it's not enough to get them back on their feet. Their reputation is damaged beyond repair and I don't know who would be crazy enough to fly with them now, especially in markets such as North Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro or Bosnia. I can only imagine how many passengers they stranded since this whole saga began.
 
xmp125a
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:38 pm

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:00 am

Blerg wrote:
xmp125a wrote:
debonair wrote:
And swiss will restart SAAB2000 op. by JP operations tomorrow on September 30th 2019, good luck!


JP306 is announced to be flown by CRJ7 (S5-AAZ). So that is perhaps the flight for which they scraped the money together on thursday (paid "between 10K and 20K" to Petrol for fuel). That one may actually depart, because it is one of the very few flights that have assigned tail number.

Yesterday apparently Adria flew Slovenian handball team home from Paris on a chartered flight with tail number S5-AFA (paid by Palma tour operator, definitely as marketing gimmick), so perhaps they got some change necessary to buy some more fuel for couple of flights today.


Even if they managed to find some funds to operate these few flights, I still think it's not enough to get them back on their feet. Their reputation is damaged beyond repair and I don't know who would be crazy enough to fly with them now, especially in markets such as North Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro or Bosnia. I can only imagine how many passengers they stranded since this whole saga began.


I think about 10.000+ :)

And made most of them angry as hell due to late cancellations (too late to find good substitutes for travel).

What is happening today is significant, three flights on the afternoon have assigned tail numbers, they are all different planes, and they all depart in narrow timeslot between 17.00 and 18.00 if I saw the information right. Additionally, none of these planes is the one which went yesterday to Paris, so I assume there is technical reason to get planes in the air at least once a week? Anyone knows what are the procedures to preserve CRJs in flyable condition if they are grounded?
 
Blerg
Topic Author
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:33 am

xmp125a wrote:
Blerg wrote:
xmp125a wrote:

JP306 is announced to be flown by CRJ7 (S5-AAZ). So that is perhaps the flight for which they scraped the money together on thursday (paid "between 10K and 20K" to Petrol for fuel). That one may actually depart, because it is one of the very few flights that have assigned tail number.

Yesterday apparently Adria flew Slovenian handball team home from Paris on a chartered flight with tail number S5-AFA (paid by Palma tour operator, definitely as marketing gimmick), so perhaps they got some change necessary to buy some more fuel for couple of flights today.


Even if they managed to find some funds to operate these few flights, I still think it's not enough to get them back on their feet. Their reputation is damaged beyond repair and I don't know who would be crazy enough to fly with them now, especially in markets such as North Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro or Bosnia. I can only imagine how many passengers they stranded since this whole saga began.


I think about 10.000+ :)

And made most of them angry as hell due to late cancellations (too late to find good substitutes for travel).

What is happening today is significant, three flights on the afternoon have assigned tail numbers, they are all different planes, and they all depart in narrow timeslot between 17.00 and 18.00 if I saw the information right. Additionally, none of these planes is the one which went yesterday to Paris, so I assume there is technical reason to get planes in the air at least once a week? Anyone knows what are the procedures to preserve CRJs in flyable condition if they are grounded?


Maybe they are paying for these flights with ticket money they made over the last week. :D

Interestingly enough, Air Serbia has further boosted capacity to LJU.

29.09
A319 in the evening.

30.09
A319 in the morning.
Atr in the evening

02.10
B733 in the morning
B733 in the evening

03.10
B733 in the morning
Atr in the evening

I think Air Serbia is the biggest winner of this whole saga.
 
debonair
Posts: 3853
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:50 am

[twoid][/twoid]
xmp125a wrote:
debonair wrote:
And swiss will restart SAAB2000 op. by JP operations tomorrow on September 30th 2019, good luck!


JP306 is announced to be flown by CRJ7 (S5-AAZ). So that is perhaps the flight for which they scraped the money together on thursday (paid "between 10K and 20K" to Petrol for fuel). That one may actually depart, because it is one of the very few flights that have assigned tail number.


What a surprise - flights have been cancelled last minute... Wouldn't have worked, as the routing for today was LUG-ZRH-LUG. So swiss needed an a/c in LUG and not ZRH. BTW. would it be possible to operate a CRJ7 into Lugano (with the steep approach path)?
But the saga continues - tomorrows flights are on time again, let's see!
 
Blerg
Topic Author
Posts: 4167
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Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:52 am

debonair wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
xmp125a wrote:
debonair wrote:
And swiss will restart SAAB2000 op. by JP operations tomorrow on September 30th 2019, good luck!


JP306 is announced to be flown by CRJ7 (S5-AAZ). So that is perhaps the flight for which they scraped the money together on thursday (paid "between 10K and 20K" to Petrol for fuel). That one may actually depart, because it is one of the very few flights that have assigned tail number.


What a surprise - flights have been cancelled last minute... Wouldn't have worked, as the routing for today was LUG-ZRH-LUG. So swiss needed an a/c in LUG and not ZRH. BTW. would it be possible to operate a CRJ7 into Lugano (with the steep approach path)?
But the saga continues - tomorrows flights are on time again, let's see!


So all flights scheduled for today have been cancelled or just the Lugano ones?
 
geeek
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:37 pm

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:42 pm

debonair wrote:
What a surprise - flights have been cancelled last minute... Wouldn't have worked, as the routing for today was LUG-ZRH-LUG. So swiss needed an a/c in LUG and not ZRH. BTW. would it be possible to operate a CRJ7 into Lugano (with the steep approach path)?
But the saga continues - tomorrows flights are on time again, let's see!

One of the SAAB2000 stays in LUG over night on the regular schedule. The bird which went there on the LX2914 on September 23 is still there according to flightradar24.

The runway in LUG is only 1400M long, so I'm not sure it's long enough for a CRJ900
 
geeek
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:37 pm

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:46 pm

Blerg wrote:
So all flights scheduled for today have been cancelled or just the Lugano ones?

No all flight scheduled for today, except those specific mentioned on adria.si is canceled today. As far as I know they have about 18 destinations out of LUJ and are only flying to 6 of them. The wetlease destinations like LUG are not part of the 18 destinations.
 
xmp125a
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:38 pm

Re: Updated: Adria Airways grounded

Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:50 pm

Blerg wrote:
debonair wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
xmp125a wrote:

JP306 is announced to be flown by CRJ7 (S5-AAZ). So that is perhaps the flight for which they scraped the money together on thursday (paid "between 10K and 20K" to Petrol for fuel). That one may actually depart, because it is one of the very few flights that have assigned tail number.


What a surprise - flights have been cancelled last minute... Wouldn't have worked, as the routing for today was LUG-ZRH-LUG. So swiss needed an a/c in LUG and not ZRH. BTW. would it be possible to operate a CRJ7 into Lugano (with the steep approach path)?
But the saga continues - tomorrows flights are on time again, let's see!


So all flights scheduled for today have been cancelled or just the Lugano ones?


Now all the Adria flights have been cancelled, for today and tomorrow. Even the evening flight to FRA (operated by WDL during the grounding).

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Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos