SCQ83 wrote:

So finally it is not that bad for LJU as a whole.

The airport has got three new carriers in 1 week: Brussels Airlines, Lufthansa and Swiss. And other legacy carriers reinforcing their presence in the market. I bet for the average customer, this is a better situation than 1 month ago.

In terms of diversity it's better, in terms of connectivity not so much. JP used to operate double daily flights to BRU (6 on SN), double daily to VIE (none right now), MUC double daily (1 daily on LH) and so on. On top of that, there are no more non stop flights to PRN, SKP, TIA, SJJ and CPH.

SCQ83 wrote:

So finally it is not that bad for LJU as a whole.

The airport has got three new carriers in 1 week: Brussels Airlines, Lufthansa and Swiss. And other legacy carriers reinforcing their presence in the market. I bet for the average customer, this is a better situation than 1 month ago.

It goes to show that, frankly, JP wasn't needed. Just like Estonian Air, Malév, Balkan, Cyprus Airways and many other national flag carriers of smaller nations. I'm sure LJU will be doing just fine, just as BUD, TLL, SOF and others are doing. This is the great magic about markets: where there is a demand, supply will come.

Blerg wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

So finally it is not that bad for LJU as a whole.

The airport has got three new carriers in 1 week: Brussels Airlines, Lufthansa and Swiss. And other legacy carriers reinforcing their presence in the market. I bet for the average customer, this is a better situation than 1 month ago.

In terms of diversity it's better, in terms of connectivity not so much. JP used to operate double daily flights to BRU (6 on SN), double daily to VIE (none right now), MUC double daily (1 daily on LH) and so on. On top of that, there are no more non stop flights to PRN, SKP, TIA, SJJ and CPH.

...and where there is no demand, supply will not come (at least not easy or instantly)...

Bad for connectivity via Ljubljana, yes. But apparently there was no need for that connectivity. It can surely be served via BEG, VIE, WAW, MUC, FRA or maybe even on new nonstop flights between airports that JP served.

SQ789 wrote:

Wow. First we lost Thomas Cook and now this? there have been many airlines in Europe has been stopped flying before and it was airlines like Air Berlin, OLT, XL Airways, Monarch and others. Is European aviation still on crisis?

Market overcapacity and the subsequent restructure. Simple as that.

It's not like Europe has the massive (read: billions) market like Asia Pacific has.

Michael

MalevTU134 wrote:

Blerg wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

So finally it is not that bad for LJU as a whole.

The airport has got three new carriers in 1 week: Brussels Airlines, Lufthansa and Swiss. And other legacy carriers reinforcing their presence in the market. I bet for the average customer, this is a better situation than 1 month ago.

In terms of diversity it's better, in terms of connectivity not so much. JP used to operate double daily flights to BRU (6 on SN), double daily to VIE (none right now), MUC double daily (1 daily on LH) and so on. On top of that, there are no more non stop flights to PRN, SKP, TIA, SJJ and CPH.

...and where there is no demand, supply will not come (at least not easy or instantly)...

Bad for connectivity via Ljubljana, yes. But apparently there was no need for that connectivity. It can surely be served via BEG, VIE, WAW, MUC, FRA or maybe even on new nonstop flights between airports that JP served.

Well things are not that simple. What if there is enough demand between LJU and TIA but no airline is based at either airport? Then what about LJU-SKP? There is definitely demand but probably not enough to fill a high density A320 that Wizz Air has based in SKP. In the end these things are regulated by subsidies, the same way LJU-BRU was.

Of course, passengers will most likely connect in Belgrade but still, there are major advantages to having non-stop flights especially in a place like the Balkans where the road infrastructure isn't the best.

Adria to Wizz Air is like comparing apples to oranges.

W6 would stimulate massively the market taking people from the bus, adding new passengers... I don't see why SKP-LJU on W6 wouldn't be feasible. As I said the other day, Ryanair makes things like Trieste-Valencia work year round. And that is a far weirder route (with no actual reason to exist other than "this is Ryanair so let's try it") than Skopje-Ljubljana.

If the Slovenian government would be smart enough, they would talk to FR/W6 to base a couple of planes in LJU. That would recover some of the lost jobs and incentive tourism in Slovenia. Being subsidised, they could "choose the destinations" so not to compete with the existing carriers (e.g. staying away from Germany, Belgium, Switzerland or Paris). Rome, Madrid, Barcelona, Lisbon, Athens, Manchester/Liverpool, Dublin, Copenhagen, Sofia, Malta, Larnaca/Paphos... plenty of unserved destinations that could be feasible.

SCQ83 wrote:

Adria to Wizz Air is like comparing apples to oranges.

W6 would stimulate massively the market taking people from the bus, adding new passengers... I don't see why SKP-LJU on W6 wouldn't be feasible. As I said the other day, Ryanair makes things like Trieste-Valencia work year round. And that is a far weirder route (with no actual reason to exist other than "this is Ryanair so let's try it") than Skopje-Ljubljana.

If the Slovenian government would be smart enough, they would talk to FR/W6 to base a couple of planes in LJU. That would recover some of the lost jobs and incentive tourism in Slovenia. Being subsidised, they could "choose the destinations" so not to compete with the existing carriers (e.g. staying away from Germany, Belgium, Switzerland or Paris). Rome, Madrid, Barcelona, Lisbon, Athens, Manchester/Liverpool, Dublin, Copenhagen, Sofia, Malta, Larnaca/Paphos... plenty of unserved destinations that could be feasible.

It would fail because Wizz Air has failed on most intra-eastern European flights. If they couldn't make BUD-OTP work then they sure as Hell couldn't make SKP-BUD work. They even had to postpone the launch of SKP-Larnaca/Turku because of low demand. It's a myth they can stimulate any market or create demand where there is none.

Austrian Airlines rules out LJU service:

https://www.exyuaviation.com/2019/10/au ... rvice.html

It is not surprising. 384 km according to Maps. So limit super competitive for a plane.

And Lufthansa Group has already splashed with 6 weekly to BRU and 4 daily between FRA/MUC/ZRH. 5 weekly days (except Sat) is a lot of seats. Many airports in Europe would kill for that connectivity with LH Group. And I don't think there is a single destination (other than maybe some airports in ex-Yugoslavia) that can be reached via VIE on Austrian that cannot be reached via BRU/ZRH/FRA/MUC.

Kilopond wrote:

Ryanair tries to grab Adria pilots into their system.

Low cost carrier Lauda is offering Adria Airways pilots a fast-track interview and assessment process for employment at its bases in Vienna and Palma de Mallorca. [...]

https://www.exyuaviation.com/2019/09/la ... ilots.html

Smart of FR. I'm surprised other airlines are not actively hiring.

Lightsaber

SCQ83 wrote:

It is not surprising. 384 km according to Maps. So limit super competitive for a plane.

And Lufthansa Group has already splashed with 6 weekly to BRU and 4 daily between FRA/MUC/ZRH. 5 weekly days (except Sat) is a lot of seats. Many airports in Europe would kill for that connectivity with LH Group. And I don't think there is a single destination (other than maybe some airports in ex-Yugoslavia) that can be reached via VIE on Austrian that cannot be reached via BRU/ZRH/FRA/MUC.

It's easy for them because there are a lot of Star Alliance members in Slovenia thanks to Adria so they are likely to keep on flying via LH hubs. That said, with OS out of the picture, it clearly shows that anything south of Hungary in the east is of no interest for LH Group. Naturally this comes as great news for JU and TK. These two will be the most convenient options from now on. JU sent its A319 to LJU yesterday morning and the load was 140/144.

Star Alliance statement:

https://www.staralliance.com/en/news-ar ... upId=20184

Adria Airways Leaves Star Alliance
Slovenian airline Adria Airways, headquartered in Ljubljana, has ceased to be a member of Star Alliance effective 02 October 2019.
The departure of Adria Airways from Star Alliance follows the company’s recent bankruptcy developments and cessation of all flight operations as of 30 September.
This has been a regrettable development following 15 years of Adria Airways’ membership in Star Alliance.

lightsaber wrote:

Kilopond wrote:

Ryanair tries to grab Adria pilots into their system.

Low cost carrier Lauda is offering Adria Airways pilots a fast-track interview and assessment process for employment at its bases in Vienna and Palma de Mallorca. [...]

https://www.exyuaviation.com/2019/09/la ... ilots.html

Smart of FR. I'm surprised other airlines are not actively hiring.

Lightsaber

Hmm, knowing quite a few Adria pilots, I'm not sure they will feel at home in Ryanair. It might not be up to their standards as skygods .

Blerg wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

Adria to Wizz Air is like comparing apples to oranges.

W6 would stimulate massively the market taking people from the bus, adding new passengers... I don't see why SKP-LJU on W6 wouldn't be feasible. As I said the other day, Ryanair makes things like Trieste-Valencia work year round. And that is a far weirder route (with no actual reason to exist other than "this is Ryanair so let's try it") than Skopje-Ljubljana.

If the Slovenian government would be smart enough, they would talk to FR/W6 to base a couple of planes in LJU. That would recover some of the lost jobs and incentive tourism in Slovenia. Being subsidised, they could "choose the destinations" so not to compete with the existing carriers (e.g. staying away from Germany, Belgium, Switzerland or Paris). Rome, Madrid, Barcelona, Lisbon, Athens, Manchester/Liverpool, Dublin, Copenhagen, Sofia, Malta, Larnaca/Paphos... plenty of unserved destinations that could be feasible.

It would fail because Wizz Air has failed on most intra-eastern European flights. If they couldn't make BUD-OTP work then they sure as Hell couldn't make SKP-BUD work. They even had to postpone the launch of SKP-Larnaca/Turku because of low demand. It's a myth they can stimulate any market or create demand where there is none.

Wizz has lots of intra-eastern european flights from BUD, but its a lot bigger market and possible transfer as well compare to LJU (Russia, Ukraine, Georgia... SKP is 3x a week in summer 2x in winter).
Sure they gonna launch new flights soon too. And also Ryanair. When Malev collapsed, the same day MOL landed in Budapest and announced 31 new destinations...

parrotta wrote:

Blerg wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

Adria to Wizz Air is like comparing apples to oranges.

W6 would stimulate massively the market taking people from the bus, adding new passengers... I don't see why SKP-LJU on W6 wouldn't be feasible. As I said the other day, Ryanair makes things like Trieste-Valencia work year round. And that is a far weirder route (with no actual reason to exist other than "this is Ryanair so let's try it") than Skopje-Ljubljana.

If the Slovenian government would be smart enough, they would talk to FR/W6 to base a couple of planes in LJU. That would recover some of the lost jobs and incentive tourism in Slovenia. Being subsidised, they could "choose the destinations" so not to compete with the existing carriers (e.g. staying away from Germany, Belgium, Switzerland or Paris). Rome, Madrid, Barcelona, Lisbon, Athens, Manchester/Liverpool, Dublin, Copenhagen, Sofia, Malta, Larnaca/Paphos... plenty of unserved destinations that could be feasible.

It would fail because Wizz Air has failed on most intra-eastern European flights. If they couldn't make BUD-OTP work then they sure as Hell couldn't make SKP-BUD work. They even had to postpone the launch of SKP-Larnaca/Turku because of low demand. It's a myth they can stimulate any market or create demand where there is none.

Wizz has lots of intra-eastern european flights from BUD, but its a lot bigger market and possible transfer as well compare to LJU (Russia, Ukraine, Georgia... SKP is 3x a week in summer 2x in winter).
Sure they gonna launch new flights soon too. And also Ryanair. When Malev collapsed, the same day MOL landed in Budapest and announced 31 new destinations...

Don't forget that Wizz Air routes from Budapest to the ex-YU (SJJ, PRN, TGD, SKP) are subsidized by the Hungarian government. We will have to see what happens with their BUD-SOF route once LO launches their own flights.

Owner of Adria Airways was 4K Invest AG in Munich.
And here is the homepage:
http://www.4k.ag/
Ups...there is nothing, company/homepage has disappeared. Nothing is left of it.

4K Invest Luxembourg which was involved in the Darwin air bankruptcy...

Airbus A319 -111 1000 OE-IKG Carlyle Aviation Partners ferried 08oct19 LJU-CDT, for part-out & scrap ex S5-AAX

Airbus A319 -132 4282 OE-IKE Carlyle Aviation Partners ferried 07oct19 LJU-CDT, for Volotea Ailines (+ 4301 OE-IKF 08oct19) ex S5-AAP

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4

danipawa wrote:

Airbus A319 -111 1000 OE-IKG Carlyle Aviation Partners ferried 08oct19 LJU-CDT, for part-out & scrap ex S5-AAX

That was a quick decision!