WA707atMSP
Topic Author
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AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:42 pm

I'm not normally a fan of lawsuits, but I hope this passenger and his lawyer rip AA apart.

https://atlantablackstar.com/2019/08/29 ... -to-a-dog/

This passenger should not have been forced to change seats, or be downgraded to the main cabin, because he was allergic to an "emotional support" pet.

It should have been the "emotional support" pet that was moved, not the other passenger.

Hopefully, if AA loses this lawsuit, and the other pending lawsuits about "emotional support" pets, they will work with the US Government to ensure that no animals other than seeing eye dogs are in the cabins of aircraft.

However, it will probably take the child or grandchild of a high profile government official being bitten by an "emotional support" pet before any action is taken.
 
swafa
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:48 pm

This is a lose/lose for the airline. Removal of either party could potentially lead to the same outcome. It’s a pick your poison type of scenario.
 
Antarius
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:49 pm

What happens if someone is allergic to a seeing eye dog? Then what.

I'm not arguing that the ESA policy makes complete sense, but within the policy, these are the rules. Heck, if I'm allergic to the next passengers cologne or whatever, I'm going to have to move - not them.
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Armadillo1
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:51 pm

swafa wrote:
This is a lose/lose for the airline. Removal of either party could potentially lead to the same outcome. It’s a pick your poison type of scenario.

and the question is what is proper in the better world.
And i think they choose wrong.
 
Armadillo1
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:52 pm

Antarius wrote:
What happens if someone is allergic to a seeing eye dog? Then what.

I'm not arguing that the ESA policy makes complete sense, but within the policy, these are the rules. Heck, if I'm allergic to the next passengers cologne or whatever, I'm going to have to move - not them.


so say the next sentence: if somebody smoke....
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:53 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:

This passenger should not have been forced to change seats, or be downgraded to the main cabin, because he was allergic to an "emotional support" pet.

It should have been the "emotional support" pet that was moved, not the other passenger.


It's clear you don't understand the CFR on this one. See 14 CFR 382.117.
 
WeatherPilot
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:53 pm

Crate the pets and put them in baggage hold like it used to be.
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:54 pm

swafa wrote:
This is a lose/lose for the airline. Removal of either party could potentially lead to the same outcome. It’s a pick your poison type of scenario.


I agree with you 100%. The airline industry has been put in an untenable position because the "emotional support" pet laws are so vague. Airlines will get sued no matter who they side with.

I empathize tremendously with airlines' ground employees and flight attendants, because the issue is so emotionally charged. Airline employees will be dealing with an irate passenger no matter how they handle it. Only when Congress cracks down on "emotional support" pets will the problem go away, and the lives of airline employees get easier.
 
slider
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:55 pm

This emotional support bullshit has gone too far.

We can't go a single day without this being in the news now. Our entire society has became emotionally incontinent.
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:02 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
WA707atMSP wrote:

This passenger should not have been forced to change seats, or be downgraded to the main cabin, because he was allergic to an "emotional support" pet.

It should have been the "emotional support" pet that was moved, not the other passenger.


It's clear you don't understand the CFR on this one. See 14 CFR 382.117.



14 CFR 382.117 wrote:
(e) If a passenger seeks to travel with an animal that is used as an emotional support or psychiatric service animal, you are not required to accept the animal for transportation in the cabin unless the passenger provides you current documentation (i.e., no older than one year from the date of the passenger's scheduled initial flight) on the letterhead of a licensed mental health professional (e.g., psychiatrist, psychologist, licensed clinical social worker, including a medical doctor specifically treating the passenger's mental or emotional disability) stating the following:

(1) The passenger has a mental or emotional disability recognized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - Fourth Edition (DSM IV);

(2) The passenger needs the emotional support or psychiatric service animal as an accommodation for air travel and/or for activity at the passenger's destination;

(3) The individual providing the assessment is a licensed mental health professional, and the passenger is under his or her professional care; and

(4) The date and type of the mental health professional's license and the state or other jurisdiction in which it was issued.
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MrBretz
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:12 pm

I wonder if this thread will be deleted like the previous one. I vote for putting the woman with her ema in coach. The CFR allows that by my reading.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:37 pm

Guns have more rights than the lives of people, and we are moving toward dogs having more rights than the health of people. Fortunately retail stores in Washington State have banned pets, other than trained service dogs (animals). If we are going to allow emotional support animals we need a legitimate licensing agency, not just any mental health person.
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ricport
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:37 pm

slider wrote:
This emotional support bullshit has gone too far.

We can't go a single day without this being in the news now. Our entire society has became emotionally incontinent.


I wish they would allow for upvotes, as I would upvote this a million times.

There was another story this week about a miniature horse on an AA flight. The ADA & ACAA are well-meaning laws that go too far. Most people agree that reasonable accommodations need to be made for the disabled, but when you start allowing miniature horses on commercial flights, things have definitely gone haywire and become unreasonable.
 
phlswaflyer
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:40 pm

slider wrote:
This emotional support bullshit has gone too far.

We can't go a single day without this being in the news now. Our entire society has become emotionally incontinent.


100% AGREE! Emotional support dogs are BS - and I love my dog more than anything, but I would NOT do that to another passenger.
 
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DLSANMan
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:41 pm

Honestly he is going to lose.
1. He was offered a seat in the First Class cabin. He declined
2. He was offered a seat in coach with compensation. He declined.
3. The pet in cabin’s owner (ESA) was also a paid F customer attempted to change seats in her cabin of payment to “diffuse” the situation
4. When asked to come off the plane (after 40 mins) he refused. At that time a F customer came forward and offered a seat to the girl with the dog. The plaintiff says that was insufficient.
5. He claims AA didn’t get his meds because there wasn’t time. If you have allergies that are life threatening, why would you check your bag with those meds?

To be honest, He was the least common denominator to be removed and rebooked.
This was not because he was African American. This was a safety measure after declining very fair offers. He deemed himself unfit to fly based on his actions.
 
EBiafore99
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:50 pm

swafa wrote:
This is a lose/lose for the airline. Removal of either party could potentially lead to the same outcome. It’s a pick your poison type of scenario.


Furthermore, from the many articles I have read, the crew WAS trying to figure out an acceptable solution. I may get knocked for this statement, but I feel the plaintiff turned this into a situation through his intransigence, as shown by a previous poster.
Last edited by EBiafore99 on Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Cdydatzigs
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:50 pm

ricport wrote:
Most people agree that reasonable accommodations need to be made for the disabled, but when you start allowing miniature horses on commercial flights, things have definitely gone haywire and become unreasonable.


I'm sorry, but the fact that "emotional support" animals have only been a thing in the last few years, tells us that these people are not disabled in the sense that they need to bring an animal on a flight, into a retail establishment, etc. If you have anxiety or whatever the case that badly, do what people have been doing for decades prior - take your meds. It's an airplane, not a kennel.
 
vetjetatl
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:52 pm

So, if there's a peanut allergy on the plane everyone needs to be mindful of the allergic person, but if there's a dog allergy the passenger needs to deal with it. How does this make any sense?
 
MrBretz
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:01 pm

DLSANman, in reading other accounts of the incident, the things you stated were slightly different. I’m sure the lawyers will find the real facts.

In any case, I know 3 people who have ESAs. All are to avoid the airline fee. Two told me that. The third did not. He’s a male, has a manual labor type job, is a great guy, and you would love to have him around if you were in an altercation. In my personal circle, it is BS.

I like the Washington State law mentioned. They do he same thing at some national parks, BTW.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:06 pm

vetjetatl wrote:
So, if there's a peanut allergy on the plane everyone needs to be mindful of the allergic person, but if there's a dog allergy the passenger needs to deal with it. How does this make any sense?


Airlines also tell people they cannot possibly guarantee an allergen-free flight, regardless of if we’re talking peanuts or pets.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, you cannot legally ask a person with an emotional support or service animal to leave the airplane because of another passenger’s allergy. You try to make a reasonable accommodation such as reassigning the allergic person to another seat, or in a worst case scenario, another flight, but “the one who complains is the one who moves,” generally speaking. You can’t move or remove the person with the animal unless they pose a safety risk to all.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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United787
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:06 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Fortunately retail stores in Washington State have banned pets, other than trained service dogs (animals).


That is great news! Everytime I see a dog in a retail store I wonder when I missed it becoming acceptable to have dogs in stores... hopefully more bans are on the way...
 
ikramerica
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:10 pm

vetjetatl wrote:
So, if there's a peanut allergy on the plane everyone needs to be mindful of the allergic person, but if there's a dog allergy the passenger needs to deal with it. How does this make any sense?

Bring some emotional support peanuts and see who wins.
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PatrickZ80
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:12 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
WA707atMSP wrote:

This passenger should not have been forced to change seats, or be downgraded to the main cabin, because he was allergic to an "emotional support" pet.

It should have been the "emotional support" pet that was moved, not the other passenger.


It's clear you don't understand the CFR on this one. See 14 CFR 382.117.


It doesn't matter what the CFR says. It's not about how it is, it's about how it should be. And in this case, that could mean the CFR is wrong and needs to be changed.
 
Boston757
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:14 pm

Unfortunately the emotional support animals stay. If one of the crew members has an allergic reaction that crew member goes. Even for the fake emotional support animals. If all the passengers have allergies to it they all have to get off to. It’s crazy!!!
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:18 pm

ikramerica wrote:
vetjetatl wrote:
So, if there's a peanut allergy on the plane everyone needs to be mindful of the allergic person, but if there's a dog allergy the passenger needs to deal with it. How does this make any sense?

Bring some emotional support peanuts and see who wins.


Great, I'm going to bring a load of emotional support durians on board for my next flight. :P

I agree this emotional support bullshit has gone way too far. Why can't it be more like Europe, where emotional support animals are as good as unheard of and on most airlines they are not allowed in the cabin. That would save a whole lot of trouble.
 
planecane
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:28 pm

slider wrote:
This emotional support bullshit has gone too far.

We can't go a single day without this being in the news now. Our entire society has became emotionally incontinent.


Agree 100%. Service animals for people with disabilities are legitimate and helpful. It's like one day some dog owner was jealous that a disabled person got to have their dog in a store and invented emotional support animals.

An animal is not capable of providing emotional support. Their main "emotions" are I'm hungry, I'm tired, I have to urinate or defecate and I want to be pet. I love animals but the idea that they can interact on an emotional level with humans is insane. Emotional support should be provided by PEOPLE.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:30 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
It doesn't matter what the CFR says. It's not about how it is, it's about how it should be. And in this case, that could mean the CFR is wrong and needs to be changed.


Phew, that’s a relief! I’ll be sure to use that line in my next divisional meeting regarding DOT compliance. I’m sure they’ll all be impressed. ;)

Seriously though, airlines don’t have a choice - they’re required to be compliant, or face progressively stiffer fines, followed by having your operating certificate suspended. They can lobby to change the law, sure, but until it gets changed, compliance isn’t optional - it’s a requirement.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
MrBretz
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:31 pm

When I get nervous on a flight, I use my emotional support drug called Xanax. 1/2 of one usually works. Bad turbulence has caused the popping on an entire pill.
 
JAAlbert
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:44 pm

I think we're going to see more pets on planes and elsewhere. It seems society's acceptance of dogs in public spaces is changing toward more acceptance (the laws aren't though). Folks are bringing their dogs everywhere these days. I often see people with their dogs in the grocery store all the time and the clerks turn a blind eye.

As an attorney, I appeared in court recently for a hearing. Another attorney came in with a beautiful golden labrador and announced to the other attorneys that it was a service dog. She told us, the dog helped her with her anxiety. I thought, I have anxiety every time I walk into my office as does just about every other attorney I know! Under her standard, the court house would be filled with dogs. I got such a kick out of the situation.

If I could, I'd bring my little pug with me every where I go. He is adorable and he does relieve my stress. I don't of course and my dog hates going places anyway.
 
chicawgo
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:49 pm

ikramerica wrote:
vetjetatl wrote:
So, if there's a peanut allergy on the plane everyone needs to be mindful of the allergic person, but if there's a dog allergy the passenger needs to deal with it. How does this make any sense?

Bring some emotional support peanuts and see who wins.


Most brilliant post I've seen in a while.

This actually brings up a fascinating point. I don't know the specific details of ADA laws but it seems to me that the legal basis for allowing emotional support pets is somewhat arbitrary and likely based off the fact that, previously, there were certain individuals that actually really need a pet to function normally (i.e. seeing eye dog). If the point of the law is to allow someone to bring an object onboard that helps calm their anxiety, then the only reason animals are controversial is because they are otherwise generally not allowed - at least not without fees and proper handling. If someone needs their "emotional support" pillow or stuffed animal, it's not a problem because you can bring those on a plane without issue. However, what if my "emotional support" pillow is a large bedrest pillow that's larger than the max carry-on size? By the intent of the law, shouldn't I be allowed to bring that onboard? And accordingly, what if I really do need my "emotional support" peanuts? Who wins in that case? I really mean it: How far does this go? What would be the point where it affects safety so much that it would not be allowed?

As an example, suppose a flight has two large emotional support animals onboard and an urgent evacuation is required. Those un-caged dogs could easily hinder the evacuation process. That's a valid safety concern.
 
wetpantsmcgee
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:49 pm

ikramerica wrote:
vetjetatl wrote:
So, if there's a peanut allergy on the plane everyone needs to be mindful of the allergic person, but if there's a dog allergy the passenger needs to deal with it. How does this make any sense?

Bring some emotional support peanuts and see who wins.


That got a laugh from me, so thank you.

My view on the topic is if/when there will be backlash for the doctors issuing these letters. If there were more scrutiny involved in physicians' "prescriptions", it would become far more difficult for scammers to avoid fees.
 
727LOVER
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:51 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Right, wrong, or indifferent, you cannot legally ask a person with an emotional support or service animal to leave the airplane because of another passenger’s allergy. You try to make a reasonable accommodation such as reassigning the allergic person to another seat, or in a worst case scenario, another flight, but “the one who complains is the one who moves,” generally speaking. You can’t move or remove the person with the animal unless they pose a safety risk to all.


Boston757 wrote:
Unfortunately the emotional support animals stay. If one of the crew members has an allergic reaction that crew member goes. Even for the fake emotional support animals. If all the passengers have allergies to it they all have to get off to. It’s crazy!!!


If this is the law....why doesn't this guy's lawyer know this? :lol:
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:59 pm

chicawgo wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
vetjetatl wrote:
So, if there's a peanut allergy on the plane everyone needs to be mindful of the allergic person, but if there's a dog allergy the passenger needs to deal with it. How does this make any sense?

Bring some emotional support peanuts and see who wins.


Most brilliant post I've seen in a while.

This actually brings up a fascinating point. I don't know the specific details of ADA laws but it seems to me that the legal basis for allowing emotional support pets is somewhat arbitrary and likely based off the fact that, previously, there were certain individuals that actually really need a pet to function normally (i.e. seeing eye dog). If the point of the law is to allow someone to bring an object onboard that helps calm their anxiety, then the only reason animals are controversial is because they are otherwise generally not allowed - at least not without fees and proper handling. If someone needs their "emotional support" pillow or stuffed animal, it's not a problem because you can bring those on a plane without issue. However, what if my "emotional support" pillow is a large bedrest pillow that's larger than the max carry-on size? By the intent of the law, shouldn't I be allowed to bring that onboard? And accordingly, what if I really do need my "emotional support" peanuts? Who wins in that case? I really mean it: How far does this go? What would be the point where it affects safety so much that it would not be allowed?

As an example, suppose a flight has two large emotional support animals onboard and an urgent evacuation is required. Those un-caged dogs could easily hinder the evacuation process. That's a valid safety concern.


Another area where the vagueness in ADA laws could cause problems is with window shades. Like most people on this forum, I like keeping my window shade up while in flight, so I can enjoy looking at the scenery. If a flight attendant asked me to lower my shade because bright sunlight was affecting passengers' ability to work or sleep, I could potentially refuse to do so by saying "I suffer from anxiety and motion sickness when I'm in confined spaces, and I need to keep the window shade up in order to remain calm". Yes, doing so would make the flight unpleasant for other passengers, but it would be no different than the discomfort that "emotional support" pets cause to some people.
 
MrBretz
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:01 pm

Folks, let’s take an informal survey. How many of you know people who use ESA as a scam to avoid fees. I personally know 3. I also know one other person who is partially blind and has a seeing eye dog. It is not an ESA. He doesn’t count. So in my small world, I know 3 people with ESAs and they are all liars. How about all of you?
 
FlyHossD
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:06 pm

vetjetatl wrote:
So, if there's a peanut allergy on the plane everyone needs to be mindful of the allergic person, but if there's a dog allergy the passenger needs to deal with it. How does this make any sense?


Mindful? I'm not sure what you mean in this context.

That is, and more than once, I worked a flight in which a passenger had a peanut allergy. This did not require us to not serve peanuts (we already didn't anway) or require that no passengers bring peanuts onboard. Indeed, how could we have enforced such a restriction anyway?

I do recall once offering to reseat such a passenger in order to avoid a fellow passenger who was eating peanuts prior to pushback. The option was for the allergic passenger to wait for another flight (the allergic passenger chose to take another seat rather than deplane).

The airlines must consider not only the needs of the allergic passenger(s), but also the needs of the rest of the passengers.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
Bradin
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:28 pm

While I am not intimately familiar with the gentlemen's allergy, I don't believe the gentlemen would have been able to stay on the plane. Pet dander and hair would have been all over the place.
 
WIederling
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:51 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
This passenger should not have been forced to change seats, or be downgraded to the main cabin, because he was allergic to an "emotional support" pet.


If the allergic already shows symptoms the area is contaminated. removing the pet ( of whatever status )
probably won't help much.

Move the allergic but be polite about it.
Murphy is an optimist
 
chicawgo
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:56 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
chicawgo wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
Bring some emotional support peanuts and see who wins.


Most brilliant post I've seen in a while.

This actually brings up a fascinating point. I don't know the specific details of ADA laws but it seems to me that the legal basis for allowing emotional support pets is somewhat arbitrary and likely based off the fact that, previously, there were certain individuals that actually really need a pet to function normally (i.e. seeing eye dog). If the point of the law is to allow someone to bring an object onboard that helps calm their anxiety, then the only reason animals are controversial is because they are otherwise generally not allowed - at least not without fees and proper handling. If someone needs their "emotional support" pillow or stuffed animal, it's not a problem because you can bring those on a plane without issue. However, what if my "emotional support" pillow is a large bedrest pillow that's larger than the max carry-on size? By the intent of the law, shouldn't I be allowed to bring that onboard? And accordingly, what if I really do need my "emotional support" peanuts? Who wins in that case? I really mean it: How far does this go? What would be the point where it affects safety so much that it would not be allowed?

As an example, suppose a flight has two large emotional support animals onboard and an urgent evacuation is required. Those un-caged dogs could easily hinder the evacuation process. That's a valid safety concern.


Another area where the vagueness in ADA laws could cause problems is with window shades. Like most people on this forum, I like keeping my window shade up while in flight, so I can enjoy looking at the scenery. If a flight attendant asked me to lower my shade because bright sunlight was affecting passengers' ability to work or sleep, I could potentially refuse to do so by saying "I suffer from anxiety and motion sickness when I'm in confined spaces, and I need to keep the window shade up in order to remain calm". Yes, doing so would make the flight unpleasant for other passengers, but it would be no different than the discomfort that "emotional support" pets cause to some people.


Exactly! A great example of the continuation of this line of thought. And I'm actually a prime example of this. It's happened to me 2-3 times where I've been asked to close the shade. Because I try to be a considerate person I usually compromise and close the majority of it but still leave some open for me to see. But once I did say that it makes me anxious and nervous if I can't see out the window. And that's not a lie. Would I have a panic attack? No. But it does cause me anxiety.
 
alfa164
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:28 pm

wetpantsmcgee wrote:
My view on the topic is if/when there will be backlash for the doctors issuing these letters. If there were more scrutiny involved in physicians' "prescriptions", it would become far more difficult for scammers to avoid fees.


:checkmark: In line with that, the rules should clearly state that the "doctor" must have personally seen and examined the "patient" - no more apply-on-line-and-get-your-certificate-here scams. Then if someone at the airlines were willing to take the time to check the "prescriptions" from these (often on-line) "doctors" - and locate those that clearly could have never personally seen the "patient" - then a lawsuit for fraud might put a number of them out of business.

Or even a complaint to their state Medical Association or licensing board... that would make them think twice.
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freakyrat
Posts: 1738
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:54 pm

I wonder if they got his luggage and medication back to him.
 
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TUSPHX
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:11 pm

I was on a WN flight that they said they would not be serving peanuts because of a person with an allergy. A few minutes later the person volunteered to get off and we were served peanuts after all.
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:12 pm

Actually it is pretty well established that pets, and particularly dogs, do provide emotional support. That does not, to my mind, entitle such a person to intrude onto the rights and health of other persons.

MrBretz wrote:
Folks, let’s take an informal survey. How many of you know people who use ESA as a scam to avoid fees. I personally know 3. I also know one other person who is partially blind and has a seeing eye dog. It is not an ESA. He doesn’t count. So in my small world, I know 3 people with ESAs and they are all liars. How about all of you?


Our condo association deals with this all of the time. And it is difficult to argue with. That is why I support a legitimate licensing agency, both that the person needs such an animal, and as important that the animal has been trained and certified to be an acceptable exception to other rules. Further I do not see any reason why a person should not pay a fee to bring such an animal where it otherwise would not be allowed.
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Miamiairport
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:18 pm

The issue is that no doctor prescribes an emotional support animal Anyone can say they need an animal for emotional support which means the animal can go just about everywhere. Most of it's a scam or someone not wanting to pay for animal care.
 
nine4nine
Posts: 501
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:39 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
vetjetatl wrote:
So, if there's a peanut allergy on the plane everyone needs to be mindful of the allergic person, but if there's a dog allergy the passenger needs to deal with it. How does this make any sense?


Airlines also tell people they cannot possibly guarantee an allergen-free flight, regardless of if we’re talking peanuts or pets.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, you cannot legally ask a person with an emotional support or service animal to leave the airplane because of another passenger’s allergy. You try to make a reasonable accommodation such as reassigning the allergic person to another seat, or in a worst case scenario, another flight, but “the one who complains is the one who moves,” generally speaking. You can’t move or remove the person with the animal unless they pose a safety risk to all.



A service animal should be there regardless, an Emotional Support Creature of any sort does not whatsoever. Comparing the two is silly. ESA’s need to be banned. If you can’t emotionally cope with flying or traveling stay home.

Anyone can go online buy an ESA cert and vest for $50. These aren’t properly trained animals for high stress situations in claustrophobic environments.

STOP THE MADNESS!
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flyingdoc787
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:26 am

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:42 pm

Uhm, my gun gives me emotional support. It helps me feel safe and lessens my anxiety. May I bring it onboard?
I promise I’ll keep it to myself, and it won’t bother anyone. I’ll just put it inside my jacket. And it won’t cause allergies.
 
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ztarizona
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:59 am

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:53 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
I'm not normally a fan of lawsuits, but I hope this passenger and his lawyer rip AA apart.

https://atlantablackstar.com/2019/08/29 ... -to-a-dog/

This passenger should not have been forced to change seats, or be downgraded to the main cabin, because he was allergic to an "emotional support" pet.

It should have been the "emotional support" pet that was moved, not the other passenger.

Hopefully, if AA loses this lawsuit, and the other pending lawsuits about "emotional support" pets, they will work with the US Government to ensure that no animals other than seeing eye dogs are in the cabins of aircraft.

However, it will probably take the child or grandchild of a high profile government official being bitten by an "emotional support" pet before any action is taken.


The ADA laws are what they are. If you disagree with them and you are in the United States, you have two senators and a House member you can petition for changes. Also, "seeing eye dog" is a trademarked term specific to a certain type of animal for the blind. There are other disabilities a person might have that require their use of a service animal that have nothing to do with eyesight. It is not very common for service dogs to bite people. Your insinuation that the government and the airline should collude together to systematically violate the ADA requirements without proper debate or discussion by Congress, who enacted the law, is an interesting take!
“The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” ― Issac Asimov
 
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ztarizona
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:59 am

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:54 pm

DLSANMan wrote:
Honestly he is going to lose.
1. He was offered a seat in the First Class cabin. He declined
2. He was offered a seat in coach with compensation. He declined.
3. The pet in cabin’s owner (ESA) was also a paid F customer attempted to change seats in her cabin of payment to “diffuse” the situation
4. When asked to come off the plane (after 40 mins) he refused. At that time a F customer came forward and offered a seat to the girl with the dog. The plaintiff says that was insufficient.
5. He claims AA didn’t get his meds because there wasn’t time. If you have allergies that are life threatening, why would you check your bag with those meds?

To be honest, He was the least common denominator to be removed and rebooked.
This was not because he was African American. This was a safety measure after declining very fair offers. He deemed himself unfit to fly based on his actions.



:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
“The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” ― Issac Asimov
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:00 pm

flyingdoc787 wrote:
Uhm, my gun gives me emotional support. It helps me feel safe and lessens my anxiety. May I bring it onboard?
I promise I’ll keep it to myself, and it won’t bother anyone. I’ll just put it inside my jacket. And it won’t cause allergies.


Thank you for pointing out the hypocrisy of our society so succinctly. Just because my Paint Pony prefers to play with the Alsatian Shepard, a certain media will next be trying to tell me I need to call him a dog instead of a pony. Media manipulation and baiting is massive and shameful in our modern economic and social system. Sorry I am not feeling truly comfortable saying "Democracy" lately for fear my "social credit score" on a certain forum prevents me from commenting freely.

Yes the aviation service animal madness needs to stop.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
5KOVERLIBOR
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:44 pm

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:08 pm

ricport wrote:
The ADA & ACAA are well-meaning laws that go too far.


The road to hell is paved with the best of intentions.
 
5KOVERLIBOR
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:44 pm

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:17 pm

How about this: everyone brings an emotional support animal. Every last person. Classical ethics would be unambiguous in its prescription. This stupidity has to end.

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