SoCalFlyer
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:16 am

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:30 pm

The way it works is the person that has the issue with the animal is the one to be removed, or re-accommodated. Airlines aren’t allowed to do anything to the person with the ESAN, or Service animal, unless the animal displays behavior that is unruly, or other disruptive behavior(it keeps peeing or pooping before take off etc.) so in short, you complain about it, you’re off. It sucks but the law isn’t on the airlines side on this one, or a person with their allergies.
 
MrBretz
Posts: 396
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:38 pm

SoCalFlyer wrote:
The way it works is the person that has the issue with the animal is the one to be removed, or re-accommodated. Airlines aren’t allowed to do anything to the person with the ESAN, or Service animal, unless the animal displays behavior that is unruly, or other disruptive behavior(it keeps peeing or pooping before take off etc.) so in short, you complain about it, you’re off. It sucks but the law isn’t on the airlines side on this one, or a person with their allergies.


If you look at the post I listed above about the definition of “service animals” and pets at Zion National Park, my opinion is the Airlines could do something similar. They could ban all EMSA on a plane. I think they choose not to to get more revenue. If you disagree with me, read my post and tell me why a National Park can ban them from most areas and an airline can’t.
 
User avatar
jsnww81
Posts: 2520
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:29 am

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:27 pm

This wasn't an issue 10-15 years ago. Back then, only service animals were allowed in the cabin and they were few and far between.

"Fur baby" culture took root in the US in the past decade and legions of people now believe their pets deserve to accompany them everywhere they go. I live in LA where this line of thinking is taken to the extreme - you cannot go ANYWHERE in this city without seeing dogs in places they shouldn't be. LA County beaches all have signs clearly stating dogs are not allowed, but the beaches are full of dogs, and the lifeguards and police have simply given up trying to enforce the rules. Restaurants, stores, schools, offices - it doesn't matter. There are dogs everywhere, and the people who carry them fly into fits of rage if anyone suggests they follow the posted rules.

Aircraft are no different. Yes, I think some of it is motivated by people trying to circumvent pet transport fees, but I believe a lot of it is "fur baby" culture and people believing their pet needs to be with them at all times.

I grew up with dogs and think they are wonderful additions to a household, but they are animals, not people. As lovable and trainable as they can be, they are still unpredictable and do not understand how to follow norms and customs.
 
AirCalSNA
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:01 pm

This case is about the proverbial "race card" ... the passenger felt like he was "less than a dog" and claims he was treated differently than other passengers might have been because he is black. I have a feeling this case will ultimately be dismissed, depending on the intelligence of the judge(s) who hear it. As for the issue of emotional-support pets, perhaps we need legislation or federal rules clarifying that if any issue arises in connection with the presence of the pet (e.g., allergies) then the owner agrees he or she is required to move to a new seat or if that can't be done then they will leave the flight altogether and be rebooked. The same rule, in fact, should apply to anyone bringing a pet onboard ... if you want to do that you assume the burdens/risks that come with doing so.
 
User avatar
rjsampson
Posts: 374
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:00 am

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:03 pm

It is one of those things that should require more verification. From my understanding, for ESA's: At least most airlines are now requiring a note from healthcare professional and vaccination records indicating that the traveler requires an ESA. ...which I suspect isn't that hard to get from a shrink. One the other hand, there's a more insidious form of abuse:

Passing your pet off as a "Trained Service Dog." Well: According to the ADA, no documentation is required; just the owner's word. With that said, at least "Service Animal Fraud"is a crime to do so. I suspect it could be prosecuted should such a dog harm a passenger/crew-member, but only then.

Of course I'm biased as I have lifelong disability requiring travel with my Trained Service Dog -- and he is just that. Trained. Very thoroughly. Although not required: I keep a host of paperwork with me containing the Trainer's signature, actual registration (the Humane Society does have a voluntary register - provided you provide documentation), my PCP's prescription, all vaccination records, and in well over a dozen flights: Never caused a problem (although passengers do tend to fawn over him).

Who knows where this will be in 5 years.
"..your eyes will be forever turned skyward, for there.." yeah we know the DaVinci quote. But GA is so dang expensive these days! :(
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15411
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:07 pm

MrBretz wrote:
If you look at the post I listed above about the definition of “service animals” and pets at Zion National Park, my opinion is the Airlines could do something similar. They could ban all EMSA on a plane. I think they choose not to to get more revenue. If you disagree with me, read my post and tell me why a National Park can ban them from most areas and an airline can’t.


Because the park falls under the ADA, while the airlines fall under the ACAA, and while the former doesn’t require the acceptance of ESAN’s, the latter does.

It’s the law. Seriously. 14 CFR 382.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
MrBretz
Posts: 396
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:37 pm

EA CO AS, thanks for that. I didn’t know that. I’ll have to delve into a bit. On the other hand, I will just accept whatever happens. Most animals are quite nice.
 
oceanvikram
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:00 pm

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:51 am

phlswaflyer wrote:
slider wrote:
This emotional support bullshit has gone too far.

We can't go a single day without this being in the news now. Our entire society has become emotionally incontinent.


100% AGREE! Emotional support dogs are BS - and I love my dog more than anything, but I would NOT do that to another passenger.


But what happens if the person is a military veteran who has done a tour or 2 in a war zone? I have 2 retired army officers in the family, they themselves don’t know how they feel about it. On one hand they support it because see the benefits but at the same time they were defending equality (a democratic value) so therefore they should be treated the same as anyone else.

Or what about domestically abused person? Or someone who went through child abuse and is one step away from being a serial killer or a monster.

This incident is way beyond my intellectual capacity to form an opinion. For once, I feel for a corporation.
My comments are based as an aviation enthusiast first, then as a passenger who paid for his own ticket, after that a passenger on a business trip and finally an armchair CEO.
 
WA707atMSP
Topic Author
Posts: 1778
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:56 pm

MrBretz wrote:
DLSANman, in reading other accounts of the incident, the things you stated were slightly different. I’m sure the lawyers will find the real facts.

In any case, I know 3 people who have ESAs. All are to avoid the airline fee. Two told me that. The third did not. He’s a male, has a manual labor type job, is a great guy, and you would love to have him around if you were in an altercation. In my personal circle, it is BS.

I like the Washington State law mentioned. They do he same thing at some national parks, BTW.


Unfortunately, even in national parks, people ignore these rules.

Last summer, I was hiking in the back country of Dinosaur National Monument, one of the more remote national parks (It's near Vernal, Utah). The sign at the beginning of the trail said "no dogs allowed", but I found a bag of dog feces next to the trail. I also found a plastic straw. I carried both the straw and the bag of dog excrement to a trash can at the beginning of the trail (next to the "no dogs allowed" sign), but it makes me sad that other hikers ignored the signs regarding dogs and litter.....
 
WA707atMSP
Topic Author
Posts: 1778
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

Re: AA kicks passenger off airplane after he has allergic reaction to "emotional support" pet

Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:05 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Can't wait till the day someone's emotional support salmon has a run in with another someone's emotional support grizzly. Preferably within the confines of a CRJ or Jungle jet.


For all you college football fans, here are some more great fights between emotional support pets:

On a flight from Seattle to Spokane, how about a fight between an emotional support cougar and a husky?

Between Detroit / Ann Arbor and Madison, a fight between an emotional support wolverine and an emotional support badger would keep passengers entertained!

One of the messier brawls between emotional support pets would be on a flight between Austin and Gainesville, if someone's emotional support longhorn was chased down the aisle by another passenger's emotional support alligator.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos