Andy33
Posts: 2473
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:42 am

LuxuryTravelled wrote:
Absolutely onboard with the multiple airport strategy, and is something they already do with large metropolitan areas in the US. I don’t believe connections are going to be important for them, given the capacity of the aircraft, so I don’t believe it is essential for them to be Heathrow. I wouldn’t be surprised if they ended up with Gatwick and Stansted
If they do have some form of co-operation with easyJet, they could provide an entry to Gatwick to them. By then, you never know - easyJet might have introduced ‘business class’...?


It's already been stated (correctly) in this thread that Easyjet have a co-operation agreement with Norwegian at LGW covering transatlantic flights. Currently Norwegian fly to LGW from 10 different US cities, rather more than JetBlue are likely to attempt, and including JFK and BOS. Now of course Norwegian is more financially unstable than JetBlue, but still..
Then, also as stated upthread, Easyjet does not even interchange baggage between its own flights, let alone anyone else's. To do so they'd need to change their IT systems dramatically, and also their working practices, for how many extra passengers?. The "connections" at LGW are of the sort familiar to people connecting off international flights in the USA - go through Immigration, collect baggage, recheck baggage, even if the passenger is boarding another international flight.
As for Easyjet adopting a "business class" - in what way? No European airline (unless you count TK) has different seat designs for economy and business class passengers on intra-Europe flights - instead they differentiate on separate check-ins, better baggage allowances, better onboard service, middle seats left unsold, inclusive lounge access, and better FF mileage earning, so that is what Easyjet would have to match. Probably they'll adopt a business class the day SouthWest Airlines do.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12491
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:43 am

SueD wrote:
Whilst the US resists cabotage there is NO FREE MARKET !

Why are you saying that as though prohibition of cabotage is even remotely unique to the USA?


by738 wrote:
Slots can always be found... even at apparent fortress Heathrow.

Heathrow is by no means a fortress for anyone. It's one of the most competitive markets on the planet.


catiii wrote:
DL/VS monopoly

Once again, with the single most misused word on A.net. :roll:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
VSMUT
Posts: 3036
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:53 am

jumbojet wrote:
The article mentions that B6, if they decide to use Stansed or Luton, could offer connecting service throughout Europe on either Easyjet or Ryanair.


Would Eurowings or Lufthansa Group not be more realistic, given that Lufthansa has a share in JetBlue?


Varsity1 wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Like she mentioned they are looking into leasing slots from partners. If you read some of the filings EU airports won’t let B6 get slots. AMS even responded telling B6 to stop trying to get slots at AMS.



Wow. So much for a free market.


Free market does not create more gates and runways out of the blue air.


Gulfstream500 wrote:
Better yet, fly to Luton and connect with Blue Air!


:lol:

I would feel really sorry for any passenger who would have to deal with Blue Air right after a transatlantic crossing! I don't even think Blue Airs website works yet!
 
B777LRF
Posts: 2489
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:42 pm

SurlyBonds wrote:

The US should insist that any post-Brexit US-UK free trade agreement remove this restriction, thus allowing US airlines to hold a controlling interest in UK airlines.

The US is in a very strong negotiating position vis-a-vis the UK in any free trade agreement, since the UK has scored an "own goal" with Brexit and has few other realistic choices for free trade.


May we assume, that in such an agreement you'd be cool with reciprocal rights, allowing UK based airlines to either start a wholly owned US subsidiary or buy and fully control an existing airline?
Signature. You just read one.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 9046
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:05 pm

How important is B6 to the USA big 3 and WN? If they can get B6 to make significant financial investments on TATL routes, will it affect their domestic operations?
When LHR was open to UA / DL they invested millions in obtaining slots, so much so that it took years for them to consider offering service back at Gatwick, the numbers gurus would show that no one who took those flights actually wanted to go to Gatwick, they all wanted LHR.
On a purely financial front, they either start big at LHR with a huge investment or dip their toe in by going elsewhere with a lower investment that they could easily cancel with little ramifications back home.
 
airbazar
Posts: 9698
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:32 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Like she mentioned they are looking into leasing slots from partners. If you read some of the filings EU airports won’t let B6 get slots. AMS even responded telling B6 to stop trying to get slots at AMS.



And to think B6 lobbied so hard for openness on behalf of non-USA airlines and access. Guess it went unnoticed and unappreciated. Hopefully a lesson is learned on that.


It's really not a surprise that AMS doesn't want B6 there. KLM are a puppet of Delta these days and AMS is just protecting it's largest customer. Factor in the fact that B6 would be flying from BOS and JFK, both of which are Delta hubs and you can start to see the real reason behind AMS not wanting B6 there.

There's really only 1 London airport worth flying into and that is LHR, and that is where I expect B6 to fly into. The recent interest in LGW by some of the established TATL player like VS and DL is only to make life difficult to DY. Once DY goes out of business you will see these airlines pull out of LGW, if they even start there to begin with,
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 6785
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:09 pm

par13del wrote:
How important is B6 to the USA big 3 and WN? If they can get B6 to make significant financial investments on TATL routes, will it affect their domestic operations?
When LHR was open to UA / DL they invested millions in obtaining slots, so much so that it took years for them to consider offering service back at Gatwick, the numbers gurus would show that no one who took those flights actually wanted to go to Gatwick, they all wanted LHR.
On a purely financial front, they either start big at LHR with a huge investment or dip their toe in by going elsewhere with a lower investment that they could easily cancel with little ramifications back home.


UA flew to LHR way before DL, in fact UA I believe never flew scheduled flights to LGW. CO did fly into LGW. DL started LHR in 2008 after Bermuda 2 was lifted which is why they came in to a disadvantage when compared to AA/UA. The JV with VS has helped in that respect. AA and UA gained access to LHR when they purchased PA and TW LHR landing rights early in the 90’s. AA did fly to LHR/LGW for years, as soon Bermuda 2 was lifted they shifted everything to LHR.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
FlyingHollander
Posts: 415
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:50 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:31 pm

airbazar wrote:
It's really not a surprise that AMS doesn't want B6 there. KLM are a puppet of Delta these days and AMS is just protecting it's largest customer. Factor in the fact that B6 would be flying from BOS and JFK, both of which are Delta hubs and you can start to see the real reason behind AMS not wanting B6 there.

KLM might not want B6 at AMS, but Schiphol might not have a choice. The European Comission is demanding slots to be given up in order to avoid a monopoly. I believe this is also how Norwegian initially got slots for its JFK route.

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... -norwegian (Dutch only)
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
catiii
Posts: 3155
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:55 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
catiii wrote:
DL/VS monopoly

Once again, with the single most misused word on A.net. :roll:


You're right. Meant to say duopoly.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12491
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:05 pm

catiii wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
catiii wrote:
DL/VS monopoly

Once again, with the single most misused word on A.net. :roll:

You're right. Meant to say duopoly.

Except that that's no less incorrect.

At what gateway do both DL and VS operate from without nonstop competition to the destination market?

About the closest you're going to get is ATL-MAN, and not sure you'll be able to successfully make the case that that's some manner of market inhibitor.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
tphuang
Posts: 3228
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:02 pm

santi319 wrote:
Because no one is taking B6 to Europe seriously but A-net fanboys... not even their own employees...

lol, you obviously haven't been following this at all.

Eurowingsa320 wrote:
I’m pretty sure Norwegian air is selling slots at LGW because of the financial situation over there, so they could probably acquire some good timed slot pairs from them

That's what I'm wondering too. Getting access to LGW from buying DY slots seem like a straight forward move if they can't get LHR slots.

jghealey wrote:
Easyjet doesn't interline bags - at Gatwick you can book flights with easyJet and Norwegian/WestJet, etc. on one ticket, but you can't check bags through and instead have to use the Gatwick connect scheme (which I think is where you check your bag in again once you've collected it at bag drop). Then there's also the matter of existing EasyJet partnerships - would easyJet risk partnering with JetBlue and potentially losing Norwegian (a much bigger partner with considerably more frequency to the US)?
If they can get the slots - perhaps lease them from another airline - LHR seems a good option for them. But if they're looking to cater to passengers connecting beyond London, LGW seems more logical, whichever airline they end up partnering with.

I very much doubt they'd fly from LTN/STN, that would detract from the premium experience (that I assume) JetBlue is looking to offer; an airport with good connections to central London is absolutely essential- it's really only LGW/LHR/LCY that have this added benefit but obviously LCY isn't realistically an option


Having some kind of partnership with U2 seems like the obvious move for them if LHR doesn't work out. Given DY's financial situation, I don't think U2 would hesitate risking that for a partnership with B6.

SeanM1997 wrote:
There are 3 remedy slots at London Heathrow from the BA/AA JV for routes between London Heathrow and New York JFK. If I was JetBlue, I would be looking at them.

The UK will also release its findings of the BA/AA JV for post 2020 operations and is likely more LHR slots will have to be sacrificed. If JetBlue can get 2 slots from there for BOS, then they would be sorted

JetBlue already have codeshare agreemebts with 20 airlines which serve London Heathrow, so if they could work with anyone for both connections and buying slots, they could bolster their Heathrow profitability

I'd be shocked if B6 hasn't been busy trying to get those LON-NYC remedial slots. They might have to shell out big bucks for BOS if they cannot get other slots from JV divesture.

Jetty wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Like she mentioned they are looking into leasing slots from partners. If you read some of the filings EU airports won’t let B6 get slots. AMS even responded telling B6 to stop trying to get slots at AMS.

Better be upfront about it: AMS doesn’t need B6, is full anyway and leasing slots from other airlines isn’t allowed; they can try their luck somewhere else. BRU might be interested.

right, nobody wants lower business class fares. Why would anyone want competition?

par13del wrote:
How important is B6 to the USA big 3 and WN? If they can get B6 to make significant financial investments on TATL routes, will it affect their domestic operations?
When LHR was open to UA / DL they invested millions in obtaining slots, so much so that it took years for them to consider offering service back at Gatwick, the numbers gurus would show that no one who took those flights actually wanted to go to Gatwick, they all wanted LHR.
On a purely financial front, they either start big at LHR with a huge investment or dip their toe in by going elsewhere with a lower investment that they could easily cancel with little ramifications back home.


if you look at how much money B6 makes per year on JFK-LAX and other major mint routes, investing millions in obtaining slots is probably well worth the cost if it means getting into JFK/BOS-LHR. It's not like B6 is short on money. And LHR slots are not depreciating assets. They could very well go up over time.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 2883
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:36 pm

How many slots does Emirates own at LGW, beyond the 3 daily that they use? That may be the best bet if you ask me.

As for Norwegian, they just recently posted their slots at LHR as debt collateral. They might be willing to sell a landing slot pair to B6, which doesn't have much debt. JetBlue has been pretty deliberate about expansion.

Also, could JetBlue purchase the delivery slots for A321LRs from Norwegian, given how they're not in real expansion mode right now?
 
Cunard
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:08 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
How many slots does Emirates own at LGW, beyond the 3 daily that they use? That may be the best bet if you ask me.

As for Norwegian, they just recently posted their slots at LHR as debt collateral. They might be willing to sell a landing slot pair to B6, which doesn't have much debt. JetBlue has been pretty deliberate about expansion.

Also, could JetBlue purchase the delivery slots for A321LRs from Norwegian, given how they're not in real expansion mode right now?


Emirates has three daily slot pairs at LGW, a forth daily flight was ''planned'' a few years ago but that was diverted to a daily DXB to STN service since upgraded to double daily.

As for Norwegian, they recently posted their slots at LGW as debt collateral, not at LHR as you pointed out as Norwegian don't serve the airport. (But I'm sure that you meant to type LGW instead of LHR).

Norwegian never intended to operate the A321 themselves as they were always intended to be leased to other operators.

JetBlue could always convert more of their current A321 orders to A321LRs.

If JetBlue can't obtain suitable slots at LHR including the remedy slots from the AA/BA JV and also are unable to get any suitable slots at LGW I personally think that STN is an obvious gateway airport for JetBlue when they do finally announce their choice of London airport.

It will be very interesting to find out what London airport JetBlue finally decides on serving :-)
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5466
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:26 pm

Slots...Funny conversation

I want to see progress on ETOPS first

From the POI, not much progress

You guys are hanging curtains...there still isnt a wall to install a window.

Not saying it wont happen as announced, but the lack of ETOPs progress thus far is troubling
 
Gulfstream500
Posts: 375
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:30 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:27 am

seat1a wrote:
N717TW wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:

LCY with the A220, obviously. :duck:


I know this was intended as a joke but its not the worst idea for B6. They have started to build a strong biz-class brand around their MINT class/service and operating a MINT only A220 might actually be significantly cheaper and more profitable than trying to buy their way into Heathrow. I actually hadn't thought of this as a duel airport strategy but operating a Y-heavy 321LR into LGW or any place else and a MINT only 220 into LCY might actually let them flight out against DL/VS/BA/AA on the BOS/JFK routes. At least on BOS, they would have that route to themselves.


How would that 220 be configured? All MINT-class or a mix of MINT and extra room seats? Thanks!


They’ll probably just invent two new classes for transatlantic flights...
Thinking of a good signature is hard...
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5525
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:21 am

Bongodog49 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
As most of the a.net community knows I am not a very big B6 fan but it seems like this is a fault of the EU per usual and discrimination. If B6 has enough evidence I hope they file a lawsuit.


How is any of this the fault of the EU ? B6 have announced that they wish to fly to London, they have the choice of four airports, LHR is the most congested airport in Europe and slots cost a fortune to buy, LGW is out of London and slots aren't always available at peak times, and the other two are a fair distance away and dominated by LCC's
None of the airports are controlled by the EU, three are privately owned and LTN is owned by the local council, but leased to a private operator. The one EU law possibly involved is that no EU airline can have more than 49% of its shares owned by non EU companies/citizens. For refernece the other way round the US will not allow more than 25% foreign ownership.

B6 are facing challenges seeking access to London, they are however no different to those that would be faced by the likes of Easyjet or Ryanair if they wished to access New York.


B6 announcements were all about the "business travelers" & a new level of premium that exceeds MINT in some ways. B6 is NOT going to capture those high end travelers flying to STN or LGW. If B6 can't gain LHR access, they should just stick to shuttling college kids on spring break to Florida. If B6 can not access the major airports in Europe this will end up being a costly venture that may bleed them dry into BK.

It was already speculated by many, that B6 will need to have a fairly premium heavy aircraft configuration to reliably hit mainland Europe all year around given the range of the 321neo from both BOS & JFK.

https://www.mazars.co.uk/Home/Services/ ... nes-Iberia

Article states there are 3 slots open for LHR-JFK/EWR for IATA season S2020

AVAILABILITY OF SLOTS FOR IATA SUMMER SEASON 2020
The Trustee is inviting applications for Slots on London – New York, as follows:

London – New York (JFK and Newark airports) (max. 3 Slots)
Since the Commitments entered into force, the parties have not been required to release slots on the London-New York route due to the number of competitive daily frequencies prevailing on the London-New York route. Referring to AA/BA.

David Neeleman is an investor in TP also, maybe he can arrange a lease or two. EI has 20 LHR slots, maybe they would lease a pair?

This guy was live tweeting from the party - https://mobile.twitter.com/WandrMe/stat ... 5686792198

Note LON & PAR are the first two cities & if you scroll down just a bit & you can see the operational limits of the 321xlr. Not a huge amount of destinations are even possible.
Last edited by RWA380 on Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
User avatar
N717TW
Posts: 540
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:44 am

RWA380 wrote:
Bongodog49 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
As most of the a.net community knows I am not a very big B6 fan but it seems like this is a fault of the EU per usual and discrimination. If B6 has enough evidence I hope they file a lawsuit.


How is any of this the fault of the EU ? B6 have announced that they wish to fly to London, they have the choice of four airports, LHR is the most congested airport in Europe and slots cost a fortune to buy, LGW is out of London and slots aren't always available at peak times, and the other two are a fair distance away and dominated by LCC's
None of the airports are controlled by the EU, three are privately owned and LTN is owned by the local council, but leased to a private operator. The one EU law possibly involved is that no EU airline can have more than 49% of its shares owned by non EU companies/citizens. For refernece the other way round the US will not allow more than 25% foreign ownership.

B6 are facing challenges seeking access to London, they are however no different to those that would be faced by the likes of Easyjet or Ryanair if they wished to access New York.


B6 announcements were all about the "business travelers" & a new level of premium that exceeds MINT in some ways. B6 is NOT going to capture those high end travelers flying to STN or LGW. If B6 can't gain LHR access, they should just stick to shuttling college kids on spring break to Florida. If B6 can not access the major airports in Europe this will end up being a costly venture that may bleed them dry into BK.

It was already speculated by many, that B6 will need to have a fairly premium heavy aircraft configuration to reliably hit mainland Europe all year around given the range of the 321neo from both BOS & JFK.

https://www.mazars.co.uk/Home/Services/ ... nes-Iberia

Article states there are 3 slots open for LHR-JFK/EWR for IATA season S2020

AVAILABILITY OF SLOTS FOR IATA SUMMER SEASON 2020
The Trustee is inviting applications for Slots on London – New York, as follows:

London – New York (JFK and Newark airports) (max. 3 Slots)
Since the Commitments entered into force, the parties have not been required to release slots on the London-New York route due to the number of competitive daily frequencies prevailing on the London-New York route. Referring to AA/BA.


But does the competition concent agreement mean anything after Brexit? (its sorta rhetorical since nobody knows what's going to happen). But in theory, if there is a hard Brexit, the whole LHR world goes upside down.
 
8herveg
Posts: 1382
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:01 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:24 am

PacoMartin wrote:
The STN express takes between 47 and 56 minutes to London's Liverpool Street (3 miles from Canary Wharf), with trains departing every 15 minutes.
The LHR express takes 15 minutes to London's Paddington Street, with trains departing every 15 minutes.
The LGW express advertises 30 minutes to London's Victoria Station, with trains departing every 15 minutes.

In August 2018 LGW express was directed by the Advertising Standards Authority (an independent advertising regulator) to remove claims of a 30-minute journey time between London and Gatwick due to poor performance on the line.

SurlyBonds wrote:
In theory, I suppose a shrewd airline could position STN as "the City's business airport" and balloon it into an alternative to LHR. It does have express rail service to Liverpool Street station, STN is scalable (and able to accommodate widebodies) in a way London City (LCY) is not. Still, this would require some very deft marketing, and I'm not sure that a new entrant like JetBlue is the airline to pull this off. Arguably, however, STN would be preferable to LGW if Jet Blue absolutely cannot obtain LHR slots.

That generally leaves LHR.


While Liverpool Street is within 10 minute walk of Bank of England and a numbe of other business locations , I think it would take hell of marketing with the long train ride.


I don't really get the stigma that STN gets when it comes to its location/time to get to the City. LHR might be the nearest airport to London (bar LCY) and take 15 mins to Paddington. But then to get to the City, you still have to travel 30 mins by tube (lets say Paddington to Liverpool Street on the Circle line), which is the same amount of time overall than it is on the overground from STN to Liverpool Street. And surely just getting one train rather than a train and a tube is less hassle? Plus, landing at LHR in the morning and jumping on the tube in the morning rush hour - no thanks! I'd rather fly into STN any day.
 
SotonLAX
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:47 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:56 am

People keep saying that LGW is not desirable, but the airport is far better connected to the rest of London (rather than just west London like Heathrow) and the wider wealthy south east England area than Heathrow. Gatwick has a huge wealthy catchment with Surrey, Sussex, Hampshire and Kent so there’s lots of money to be made.
 
User avatar
LaunchDetected
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:42 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:04 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Slots...Funny conversation

I want to see progress on ETOPS first

From the POI, not much progress

You guys are hanging curtains...there still isnt a wall to install a window.

Not saying it wont happen as announced, but the lack of ETOPs progress thus far is troubling



A321LR is already ETOPS 180, which is enough for TATL.
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2018/10/easa-and-faa-certify-long-range-capability-for-a321neo-.html

I'm not sure what you are waiting for but even A220-300 is ETOPS 180.
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2019/01/a220-airliner-wins-approval-from-transport-canada-for-180-minutes-etops-capability.html
Caravelle lover
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1521
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:35 am

Gatwick or Stansted. Maybe Stansted would suit them better as it's less congested. I think if they can do Boston or New York and offer connections to/from other smaller US destinations that could do quite well.
 
jupiter2
Posts: 1671
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2001 11:30 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:02 am

Surely the most obvious airport for B6 has got to be SEN. Rail link to London, no congestion, small town feel terminal, just what you want after your transatlantic flight. Select group of onward destinations available through an ever growing number of carriers.

Everything a new entrant in the trans Atlantic market, is waiting for them at lovely Southend On Sea.
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:02 am

LaunchDetected wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Slots...Funny conversation

I want to see progress on ETOPS first

From the POI, not much progress

You guys are hanging curtains...there still isnt a wall to install a window.

Not saying it wont happen as announced, but the lack of ETOPs progress thus far is troubling



A321LR is already ETOPS 180, which is enough for TATL.
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2018/10/easa-and-faa-certify-long-range-capability-for-a321neo-.html

I'm not sure what you are waiting for but even A220-300 is ETOPS 180.
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2019/01/a220-airliner-wins-approval-from-transport-canada-for-180-minutes-etops-capability.html

Because an airplane is ETOPS doesn’t mean the airline just flies it. They have to have an FAA approved ETOPS program.
 
Bongodog49
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:35 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:08 am

8herveg wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
The STN express takes between 47 and 56 minutes to London's Liverpool Street (3 miles from Canary Wharf), with trains departing every 15 minutes.
The LHR express takes 15 minutes to London's Paddington Street, with trains departing every 15 minutes.
The LGW express advertises 30 minutes to London's Victoria Station, with trains departing every 15 minutes.

In August 2018 LGW express was directed by the Advertising Standards Authority (an independent advertising regulator) to remove claims of a 30-minute journey time between London and Gatwick due to poor performance on the line.

SurlyBonds wrote:
In theory, I suppose a shrewd airline could position STN as "the City's business airport" and balloon it into an alternative to LHR. It does have express rail service to Liverpool Street station, STN is scalable (and able to accommodate widebodies) in a way London City (LCY) is not. Still, this would require some very deft marketing, and I'm not sure that a new entrant like JetBlue is the airline to pull this off. Arguably, however, STN would be preferable to LGW if Jet Blue absolutely cannot obtain LHR slots.

That generally leaves LHR.


While Liverpool Street is within 10 minute walk of Bank of England and a numbe of other business locations , I think it would take hell of marketing with the long train ride.


I don't really get the stigma that STN gets when it comes to its location/time to get to the City. LHR might be the nearest airport to London (bar LCY) and take 15 mins to Paddington. But then to get to the City, you still have to travel 30 mins by tube (lets say Paddington to Liverpool Street on the Circle line), which is the same amount of time overall than it is on the overground from STN to Liverpool Street. And surely just getting one train rather than a train and a tube is less hassle? Plus, landing at LHR in the morning and jumping on the tube in the morning rush hour - no thanks! I'd rather fly into STN any day.


To my mind the stigma is down to the Stansted Express probably being the slowest "express" service in the UK 53 minutes for around 37 miles is very slow, by comparison the train time from Cambridge to Kings Cross is only 51 minutes and 60% further. Additionally thats 53 minutes to Liverpool Street, whilst thats convenient for the financial district, its the least well positioned London mainline station for any other purpose.
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:15 am

LaunchDetected wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Slots...Funny conversation

I want to see progress on ETOPS first

From the POI, not much progress

You guys are hanging curtains...there still isnt a wall to install a window.

Not saying it wont happen as announced, but the lack of ETOPs progress thus far is troubling



A321LR is already ETOPS 180, which is enough for TATL.
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2018/10/easa-and-faa-certify-long-range-capability-for-a321neo-.html

I'm not sure what you are waiting for but even A220-300 is ETOPS 180.
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2019/01/a220-airliner-wins-approval-from-transport-canada-for-180-minutes-etops-capability.html

Because an airplane is ETOPS doesn’t mean the airline just flies it. They have to have an FAA approved ETOPS program.
 
Andy33
Posts: 2473
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:26 am

RWA380 wrote:

EI has 20 LHR slots, maybe they would lease a pair?

Two problems there:
EI are part of IAG, why would they facilitate any airline in competing with BA, also part of IAG?.
At the time of the IAG takeover of EI, legally binding agreements were entered into by IAG that they would not dispose of EI's LHR slots
 
zappomatic
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu May 17, 2018 11:22 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:44 am

PacoMartin wrote:
The STN express takes between 47 and 56 minutes to London's Liverpool Street (3 miles from Canary Wharf), with trains departing every 15 minutes.
The LHR express takes 15 minutes to London's Paddington Street, with trains departing every 15 minutes.
The LGW express advertises 30 minutes to London's Victoria Station, with trains departing every 15 minutes.

In August 2018 LGW express was directed by the Advertising Standards Authority (an independent advertising regulator) to remove claims of a 30-minute journey time between London and Gatwick due to poor performance on the line.

SurlyBonds wrote:
In theory, I suppose a shrewd airline could position STN as "the City's business airport" and balloon it into an alternative to LHR. It does have express rail service to Liverpool Street station, STN is scalable (and able to accommodate widebodies) in a way London City (LCY) is not. Still, this would require some very deft marketing, and I'm not sure that a new entrant like JetBlue is the airline to pull this off. Arguably, however, STN would be preferable to LGW if Jet Blue absolutely cannot obtain LHR slots.

That generally leaves LHR.


While Liverpool Street is within 10 minute walk of Bank of England and a numbe of other business locations , I think it would take hell of marketing with the long train ride.


For the City, you can take Thameslink from Gatwick to London Bridge in roughly 30 minutes, and trains continue right through the heart of the financial district (Blackfriars, City Thameslink, Farringdon) in another few minutes. It's often a lot cheaper than the Gatwick Express too. Gatwick Express is for clueless tourists.
 
KFTG
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:02 am

LaunchDetected wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Slots...Funny conversation

I want to see progress on ETOPS first

From the POI, not much progress

You guys are hanging curtains...there still isnt a wall to install a window.

Not saying it wont happen as announced, but the lack of ETOPs progress thus far is troubling



A321LR is already ETOPS 180, which is enough for TATL.
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2018/10/easa-and-faa-certify-long-range-capability-for-a321neo-.html

I'm not sure what you are waiting for but even A220-300 is ETOPS 180.
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2019/01/a220-airliner-wins-approval-from-transport-canada-for-180-minutes-etops-capability.html

Great self-own. Made my day.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7044
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:24 am

RWA380 wrote:
Bongodog49 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
As most of the a.net community knows I am not a very big B6 fan but it seems like this is a fault of the EU per usual and discrimination. If B6 has enough evidence I hope they file a lawsuit.


How is any of this the fault of the EU ? B6 have announced that they wish to fly to London, they have the choice of four airports, LHR is the most congested airport in Europe and slots cost a fortune to buy, LGW is out of London and slots aren't always available at peak times, and the other two are a fair distance away and dominated by LCC's
None of the airports are controlled by the EU, three are privately owned and LTN is owned by the local council, but leased to a private operator. The one EU law possibly involved is that no EU airline can have more than 49% of its shares owned by non EU companies/citizens. For refernece the other way round the US will not allow more than 25% foreign ownership.

B6 are facing challenges seeking access to London, they are however no different to those that would be faced by the likes of Easyjet or Ryanair if they wished to access New York.


B6 announcements were all about the "business travelers" & a new level of premium that exceeds MINT in some ways. B6 is NOT going to capture those high end travelers flying to STN or LGW. If B6 can't gain LHR access, they should just stick to shuttling college kids on spring break to Florida. If B6 can not access the major airports in Europe this will end up being a costly venture that may bleed them dry into BK.

It was already speculated by many, that B6 will need to have a fairly premium heavy aircraft configuration to reliably hit mainland Europe all year around given the range of the 321neo from both BOS & JFK.

https://www.mazars.co.uk/Home/Services/ ... nes-Iberia

Article states there are 3 slots open for LHR-JFK/EWR for IATA season S2020

AVAILABILITY OF SLOTS FOR IATA SUMMER SEASON 2020
The Trustee is inviting applications for Slots on London – New York, as follows:

London – New York (JFK and Newark airports) (max. 3 Slots)
Since the Commitments entered into force, the parties have not been required to release slots on the London-New York route due to the number of competitive daily frequencies prevailing on the London-New York route. Referring to AA/BA.

David Neeleman is an investor in TP also, maybe he can arrange a lease or two. EI has 20 LHR slots, maybe they would lease a pair?

This guy was live tweeting from the party - https://mobile.twitter.com/WandrMe/stat ... 5686792198

Note LON & PAR are the first two cities & if you scroll down just a bit & you can see the operational limits of the 321xlr. Not a huge amount of destinations are even possible.



Yah, British Airways sister airline, Aer Lingus, is going to lend slots to JB for JFK to LHR flights ? Right, that is so funny & ridiculous. By the way when IAG took over EI they had to guarantee for decades to use those slots for Ireland flights from Heathrow. JB has a better chance with TAP and their former CEO.
 
User avatar
albertocsc
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:09 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:42 am

jupiter2 wrote:
Surely the most obvious airport for B6 has got to be SEN. Rail link to London, no congestion, small town feel terminal, just what you want after your transatlantic flight. Select group of onward destinations available through an ever growing number of carriers.

Everything a new entrant in the trans Atlantic market, is waiting for them at lovely Southend On Sea.


I would love to have jetBlue at home, for sure. But, would it even be possible with the short runway at SEN?
 
tphuang
Posts: 3228
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:39 pm

STN/LTN are not going to happen. JetBlue is looking to serve American customers first and very people would have heard of those airports. LGW is a possibility since it's been around for a long time and shows up on concur. Not as good as LHR, but it's a viable option if they really can't find enough slots at LHR.

Remember, there are a lot of delays in A321NEO deliveries. I would be very happy if they can actually start service by Q1 2021. And they are simply not in a rush to reveal plans before then.
 
jumbojet
Topic Author
Posts: 2888
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:51 pm

I like the two prong approach although I believe they are saying that to throw off the competition.

JetBlue has some pretty smart people running the airline. They plan on reinventing MINT which means LHR or LGW. That said, they will find slots at LHR/LGW by 2021. All they need is a few to get started. In time they will get more. However, JFK/BOS - LON is not the same as JFK/BOS to LAX. B6 cant just add flights at will so will it cause major disruption in pricing like some B6 fans on here believe? I doubt it. Even with a large MINT cabin, 3 to 4 flights a day will not be enough to cause a sudden and drastic price decrease in this market and if it did then great, if it means I spend less on my Delta ticket I will not complain one bit.

JetBlue promises a MINT experience that is equal to flying on a private plane. What exactly they mean by that is anyone's guess at this point. Maybe a true direct aisle access on the 321XLR similar to how Korean Airlines has direct aisle access on its 2-2-2 configured planes?
 
Blueballs
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:21 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:28 pm

jumbojet wrote:

JetBlue has some pretty smart people running the airline.


We both know this is not the case. The coo is inept and over her head. The chairman of the board won’t let the ceo actually do anything. Speaking of the ceo the employee group hasn’t seen him in months. Best case scenario is this management group is trying to sell the airline. Worst case we continue down this path of trying and failing to please Wall Street and alienating our passengers daily.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:32 pm

SEN
LTN
STN
In that order, from less desired to more desired or V.V.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
3AWM
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:01 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:42 pm

For prestige reasons they will probably want to operate LHR but I don't think they will do well there as they would need lots of slots to compete with any of the big players. LGW I also see as too competitive as there are quite a few TATL options there.

I think LTN, STN, and SEN could all work as each probably has sufficient catchment to operate 1 daily A321 to NYC. There are no other TATL flights there so local passengers can choose for convenience. Inbound passengers would still see those airports as London airports.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3228
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:24 pm

3AWM wrote:
For prestige reasons they will probably want to operate LHR but I don't think they will do well there as they would need lots of slots to compete with any of the big players. LGW I also see as too competitive as there are quite a few TATL options there.

I think LTN, STN, and SEN could all work as each probably has sufficient catchment to operate 1 daily A321 to NYC. There are no other TATL flights there so local passengers can choose for convenience. Inbound passengers would still see those airports as London airports.


Imo, people overstating the schedule concerns here.

From BOS to LON, they really only need 2 flights a day to be competitive considering BA/AA only operates 3 flights a day. Which I think they will be able to get.

Let's say they get 3 remedy slots from NYC to LON, this is where things get interesting. They can easily schedule in 3 flights spaced out by 2 hours on the outbound (say 6, 8, 10 pm). While they have much fewer flights than BA/AA's 12x daily on JFK-LHR, having 3 flights in the span of 5 hours would actually cover most of the public flight needs. How many people out must fly out exactly at 7 pm or 9 pm or 11:30 pm and can' fly out an hour earlier or later? I would say it would have to be pretty high up in the banking world. The type that B6 is never going to attract due to their lack of global coverage.

They are going to keep this in the dark as long as they can. No reason to announce schedule or airport until they know A321LR will be delivered soon.
 
jumbojet
Topic Author
Posts: 2888
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:33 pm

Blueballs wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

JetBlue has some pretty smart people running the airline.


We both know this is not the case. The coo is inept and over her head. The chairman of the board won’t let the ceo actually do anything. Speaking of the ceo the employee group hasn’t seen him in months. Best case scenario is this management group is trying to sell the airline. Worst case we continue down this path of trying and failing to please Wall Street and alienating our passengers daily.


I disagree with you. Look at MINT. If not for MINT, where would B6 be now? As for the daily operations and employee morale, thats another story.

What I don't get, why not fly a widebody to LON? You mean to tell me B6 can't find another 100 or so passengers to stuff on a plane? Plus, it opens more doors to other TATL opportunities in the future.
 
3AWM
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:01 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:34 pm

tphuang wrote:
How many people out must fly out exactly at 7 pm or 9 pm or 11:30 pm and can' fly out an hour earlier or later? I would say it would have to be pretty high up in the banking world. The type that B6 is never going to attract due to their lack of global coverage.


Not many but these are the passengers who fly very frequently and pay the most for the seats. There are plenty of tourists, etc , people looking for a cheap flight but those who don't care about the timing and convenience would also go to a different airport to save a few ££ IMO.

I think the best thing B6 can offer that will draw a premium from some of the passengers is a flight from the most convenient airport.
 
drdisque
Posts: 1116
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:37 pm

BRU would be a good choice as it doesn't have flights from BOS and they could interline with SN.

I wouldn't overlook MAN as a second UK Airport, especially as a competitive strike as DL is taking over the seasonal service from VS. With smaller more efficient equipment it's possible B6 could serve it year-round.
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2340
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:41 pm

jupiter2 wrote:
Surely the most obvious airport for B6 has got to be SEN. Rail link to London, no congestion, small town feel terminal, just what you want after your transatlantic flight. Select group of onward destinations available through an ever growing number of carriers.

Everything a new entrant in the trans Atlantic market, is waiting for them at lovely Southend On Sea.


I think there is more chance of Easy Jet buying 20 second hand 747s and running an hourly shuttle service from LGW to GLA/EDI with those than that happening. Not going to happen.

Would love to see B6 at LHR if they can get the slots but if I was a betting man it would be LGW.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1677
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:47 pm

I think JetBlue will service STN,LGW and LHR. Access to LHR will come as part of a deal with a EasyJet code share. EasyJet will let B6 use 2 daily slots.
LHR and STN will probably be just 2 Daily slots 1 JFK and 1 BOS. While LGW will likely be 4 daily 2 BOS and 2 JFK.
LCY wouldn't be far fetched if they did a sub fleet of A220-300. Have the aircraft with half Mint and Even more legroom seats catch the BIZ passenger 4 times a day 2 BOS and 2 JFK.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
jumbojet
Topic Author
Posts: 2888
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:59 pm

3AWM wrote:
tphuang wrote:
How many people out must fly out exactly at 7 pm or 9 pm or 11:30 pm and can' fly out an hour earlier or later? I would say it would have to be pretty high up in the banking world. The type that B6 is never going to attract due to their lack of global coverage.


Not many but these are the passengers who fly very frequently and pay the most for the seats. There are plenty of tourists, etc , people looking for a cheap flight but those who don't care about the timing and convenience would also go to a different airport to save a few ££ IMO.

I think the best thing B6 can offer that will draw a premium from some of the passengers is a flight from the most convenient airport.


Not only that but he conveniently left out Delta and Virgins 9 daily flights AND the remedy slots, who's to say they will be prime time slots? The business person wants options. 2 to 3 daily off peak flight times on B6 won't cut it. Just as this could be a bit hit for B6, it can also be a big bust. Success is not guaranteed.

I seriously doubt Parker and Bastian are losing sleep over this.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3228
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:13 pm

3AWM wrote:
tphuang wrote:
How many people out must fly out exactly at 7 pm or 9 pm or 11:30 pm and can' fly out an hour earlier or later? I would say it would have to be pretty high up in the banking world. The type that B6 is never going to attract due to their lack of global coverage.


Not many but these are the passengers who fly very frequently and pay the most for the seats. There are plenty of tourists, etc , people looking for a cheap flight but those who don't care about the timing and convenience would also go to a different airport to save a few ££ IMO.

I think the best thing B6 can offer that will draw a premium from some of the passengers is a flight from the most convenient airport.


Those are also most likely flying first class (not business) and need premium lounge access and complimentary dining. They also need to be able to fly to Asia. All things B6 will not offer any time soon. B6 is not capturing that crowd.

You can care about timing, but not to one hour windows. Do you know how hard it is to justify to corporate travel that you can only arrive in London within an hour window? If an airline offered a schedule domestically on a route with flight every 2 hours in the window that people want to travel, I would say they have a competitive schedule. For the vast majority of business travellers going TATL, 3 options in the evening out of JFK is plenty to pick from. For high yielding leisure travellers, having 2 flights a night (1 in the early evening and 1 in late evening) is enough.
 
Blueballs
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:21 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:26 pm

jumbojet wrote:
Blueballs wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

JetBlue has some pretty smart people running the airline.


We both know this is not the case. The coo is inept and over her head. The chairman of the board won’t let the ceo actually do anything. Speaking of the ceo the employee group hasn’t seen him in months. Best case scenario is this management group is trying to sell the airline. Worst case we continue down this path of trying and failing to please Wall Street and alienating our passengers daily.


I disagree with you. Look at MINT. If not for MINT, where would B6 be now? As for the daily operations and employee morale, thats another story.

What I don't get, why not fly a widebody to LON? You mean to tell me B6 can't find another 100 or so passengers to stuff on a plane? Plus, it opens more doors to other TATL opportunities in the future.

Mint was introduced 5 or 6 years ago. They have done nothing since....time for new blood
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5466
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:37 pm

Blueballs wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

JetBlue has some pretty smart people running the airline.


We both know this is not the case. The coo is inept and over her head. The chairman of the board won’t let the ceo actually do anything. Speaking of the ceo the employee group hasn’t seen him in months. Best case scenario is this management group is trying to sell the airline. Worst case we continue down this path of trying and failing to please Wall Street and alienating our passengers daily.


Post of the year!

Get this man a Titos Vodka on me...he knows his stuff!
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3931
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:51 pm

IF JBLU can get slots at either LHR or LGW then they should, But STN is a good airport if they can't,
 
jupiter2
Posts: 1671
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2001 11:30 am

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:34 pm

UAL777UK wrote:
jupiter2 wrote:
Surely the most obvious airport for B6 has got to be SEN. Rail link to London, no congestion, small town feel terminal, just what you want after your transatlantic flight. Select group of onward destinations available through an ever growing number of carriers.

Everything a new entrant in the trans Atlantic market, is waiting for them at lovely Southend On Sea.


I think there is more chance of Easy Jet buying 20 second hand 747s and running an hourly shuttle service from LGW to GLA/EDI with those than that happening. Not going to happen.

Would love to see B6 at LHR if they can get the slots but if I was a betting man it would be LGW.


You're not thinking clearly, there is no need for second hand 747s, new 748i's are the way to go !

Actually, maybe B6 should be first airline into a re-opened Manston :scratchchin: No congestion at all to worry about there.
 
wv399
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:32 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:53 pm

I don't get the hand wringing over which airports will be served. There is a substantial amount of demand between NYC and LON. JetBlue will likely be able to stimulate demand to airports other than Heathrow with its product and fares. Especially those who buy their own tickets. Just like when they began with JFK and LGB. I'd happily take Mint to Stansted over basic economy to Heathrow,.
 
11C
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:19 am

RWA380 wrote:
Bongodog49 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
As most of the a.net community knows I am not a very big B6 fan but it seems like this is a fault of the EU per usual and discrimination. If B6 has enough evidence I hope they file a lawsuit.


How is any of this the fault of the EU ? B6 have announced that they wish to fly to London, they have the choice of four airports, LHR is the most congested airport in Europe and slots cost a fortune to buy, LGW is out of London and slots aren't always available at peak times, and the other two are a fair distance away and dominated by LCC's
None of the airports are controlled by the EU, three are privately owned and LTN is owned by the local council, but leased to a private operator. The one EU law possibly involved is that no EU airline can have more than 49% of its shares owned by non EU companies/citizens. For refernece the other way round the US will not allow more than 25% foreign ownership.

B6 are facing challenges seeking access to London, they are however no different to those that would be faced by the likes of Easyjet or Ryanair if they wished to access New York.


B6 announcements were all about the "business travelers" & a new level of premium that exceeds MINT in some ways. B6 is NOT going to capture those high end travelers flying to STN or LGW. If B6 can't gain LHR access, they should just stick to shuttling college kids on spring break to Florida. If B6 can not access the major airports in Europe this will end up being a costly venture that may bleed them dry into BK.

It was already speculated by many, that B6 will need to have a fairly premium heavy aircraft configuration to reliably hit mainland Europe all year around given the range of the 321neo from both BOS & JFK.

https://www.mazars.co.uk/Home/Services/ ... nes-Iberia

Article states there are 3 slots open for LHR-JFK/EWR for IATA season S2020

AVAILABILITY OF SLOTS FOR IATA SUMMER SEASON 2020
The Trustee is inviting applications for Slots on London – New York, as follows:

London – New York (JFK and Newark airports) (max. 3 Slots)
Since the Commitments entered into force, the parties have not been required to release slots on the London-New York route due to the number of competitive daily frequencies prevailing on the London-New York route. Referring to AA/BA.

David Neeleman is an investor in TP also, maybe he can arrange a lease or two. EI has 20 LHR slots, maybe they would lease a pair?

This guy was live tweeting from the party - https://mobile.twitter.com/WandrMe/stat ... 5686792198

Note LON & PAR are the first two cities & if you scroll down just a bit & you can see the operational limits of the 321xlr. Not a huge amount of destinations are even possible.


You say 321NEO, but do you mean LR, and XLR? I don’t think anyone has mentioned flying 321NEO’s across the Atlantic.
 
11C
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: Which London Airport Should JetBlue Pick to Launch Service

Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:23 am

VSMUT wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
The article mentions that B6, if they decide to use Stansed or Luton, could offer connecting service throughout Europe on either Easyjet or Ryanair.


Would Eurowings or Lufthansa Group not be more realistic, given that Lufthansa has a share in JetBlue?


Varsity1 wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Like she mentioned they are looking into leasing slots from partners. If you read some of the filings EU airports won’t let B6 get slots. AMS even responded telling B6 to stop trying to get slots at AMS.



Wow. So much for a free market.


Free market does not create more gates and runways out of the blue air.


Gulfstream500 wrote:
Better yet, fly to Luton and connect with Blue Air!


:lol:

I would feel really sorry for any passenger who would have to deal with Blue Air right after a transatlantic crossing! I don't even think Blue Airs website works yet!


LH divested in March, 2015.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos