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N62NA
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Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:39 pm

Had just got off my flight up from MIA and was walking through the terminal to baggage claim and I witnessed a Flight Attendant (male) and First Officer (also male) yelling at each other. The First Officer then pushed the Flight Attendant and said "You insulted me!"

I have no idea what was said, but the Captain had to quickly intervene and physically separate the two of them. This happened in Terminal A, so was definitely AA.

Have to say, the whole incident was very dispiriting to see.
 
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American 767
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:55 pm

N62NA wrote:
Have to say, the whole incident was very dispiriting to see.


You are right. It gives a bad impression of the airline to passengers walking around the terminal.

These altercations between crew members, and between a crew member and passengers, are not so uncommon. It happens more than we think. It reminds me of another story: on an American Airlines flight from somewhere in the West Coast, (LAX or SFO not sure which) to DFW, a male F/A assaulted a female passenger with her stroller, and then another male passenger who was sitting in First Class prior to departure and who had nothing to do with it intervened and argued against the male F/A . "You stay out of it!" the F/A yelled. The F/A was eventually suspended to work the flight and replaced by another crew member. These things don't happen just at American, other airlines have seen that kind of incident also.
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Revelation
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:07 pm

Guess what?

Some times two human beings don't like each other, especially if one is sensitive to slights.
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SierraPacific
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:27 pm

Every profession has flare ups. I wonder what the original insult/conflict was to get to the point of physical altercation in the terminal.
 
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chepos
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Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:59 pm

Crew members are humans too, they get into arguments and disagreements from time to time. Definitely one should not get into physical altercations in the workplace, but apparently it happens.


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Max Q
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:19 pm

Unfortunately it’s not uncommon to have tension between the cockpit and cabin crew, even downright hostility

My impression is that’s mostly an issue in the US


Not sure why, I think it’s partly due to a lack of respect for the FA profession in the states from the public
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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N62NA
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:49 pm

Question I had after I had witnessed this was what is going to happen to the two involved? Since the Captain was there, is he required to report the incident immediately? Would the two - if they were there about to operate a flight - be temporarily suspended and the flight either delayed or cancelled?
 
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:03 am

Revelation wrote:
Guess what?

Some times two human beings don't like each other, especially if one is sensitive to slights.


I don't understand how you can downplay this incident when it's a complete breach of professionality to fight in front of customers. These AA employees acted with crass and are unprofessional. They need to take it 'outside.'
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Canuck600
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:45 am

I think what he's trying to tell you is, yes they should be acting 100 professional 100 percent of the time but that's in a perfect world & the world isn't perfect.

I suspect that any of you that have commented in in customer service type threads that 100% professionalism should be maintained 100% of time have no experience of the real world & 0 experience in customer facing jobs.
 
jagraham
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:16 am

The incident will certainly have to be reported. The question is what did the F/A do after the FO shoved her? The words are bad enough but physical attacks are usually grounds for immediate dismissal . . .
 
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:17 am

jagraham wrote:
The incident will certainly have to be reported. The question is what did the F/A do after the FO shoved her? The words are bad enough but physical attacks are usually grounds for immediate dismissal . . .


Both involved were male.
 
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:25 am

max999 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Guess what?

Some times two human beings don't like each other, especially if one is sensitive to slights.


I don't understand how you can downplay this incident when it's a complete breach of professionality to fight in front of customers. These AA employees acted with crass and are unprofessional. They need to take it 'outside.'


If this whole thing is even true at all. Or if they even worked for AA. Maybe they were joking around.
 
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N62NA
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:32 am

catiii wrote:
max999 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Guess what?

Some times two human beings don't like each other, especially if one is sensitive to slights.


I don't understand how you can downplay this incident when it's a complete breach of professionality to fight in front of customers. These AA employees acted with crass and are unprofessional. They need to take it 'outside.'


If this whole thing is even true at all. Or if they even worked for AA. Maybe they were joking around.


No, they were not "joking around."
 
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chepos
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Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:44 am

Just because you saw a crew at Terminal A does not necessarily mean they where mainline AA employees. I am not doubting your story, but one can not be reporting incidents based on second hand online reports. Mind you one based on assumptions. However, since you personally where there and apparently was/is very concerned you could have gone to the authorities. Plenty of them at the PHL airport.


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Last edited by chepos on Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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hereandthere41
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:46 am

jagraham wrote:
The incident will certainly have to be reported. The question is what did the F/A do after the FO shoved her? The words are bad enough but physical attacks are usually grounds for immediate dismissal . . .


No. Not every little thing needs to be reported like grade school. Not downplaying the physical side of it but there are different ways to handle it. I certainly hope you guys apply these same unforgiving standards to your own industries cuz its awfully hard to be perfect every minute of the day.
 
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:53 am

As is typical in the airport environment, crew members can fight and nothing happens. On the other hand, passengers can fight with crew members or among themselves and are dragged off the plane, locked up, banned from flying for life, go to prison for 5 years, lose their job, lose their apartment, lose their spouse and are on suicide watch for the rest of their life over once incident. Typical.
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Karlsands
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:55 am

Would be money this flight attendant “dude” was overly sensitive and some sort of “I’m always a victim look at me character “
 
cpd
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:17 am

In my industry, you do that and both would be out of their jobs quicker than the blink of an eye.

And we don’t even have paying passengers.

I’m sure there will be video of the two in question. Airports have cameras everywhere, and passengers have smart phones.
 
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:34 am

N62NA wrote:
catiii wrote:
max999 wrote:

I don't understand how you can downplay this incident when it's a complete breach of professionality to fight in front of customers. These AA employees acted with crass and are unprofessional. They need to take it 'outside.'


If this whole thing is even true at all. Or if they even worked for AA. Maybe they were joking around.


No, they were not "joking around."

It's not an a.net thread if, within the first few posts, the thread starter and the thread itself isn't attacked
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
Ellofiend
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:39 am

For those of you who think that such actions are uncommon and are not part of human life, all you need to do is take a read of this very thread, while what we post here is rarely associated with that of our employer's attitude towards said subject the principles remain the same, people are imperfect and incidents happen, not that that is acceptable in some instances and dismissal is a fair consequence for such actions that should have been dealt with in a civil manner. Fact of life No.1
 
acentauri
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:04 am

If it happened at 1640 in front of A16, they were probably fighting to see who got the last non-rev seat to Athens. :bouncy: :bouncy:
 
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:10 am

acentauri wrote:
If it happened at 1640 in front of A16, they were probably fighting to see who got the last non-rev seat to Athens. :bouncy: :bouncy:


I know that feeling, there comes a point where your name is finally called and you'd fight anyone in your way to get to the desk!
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bravotango75
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:15 am

N62NA wrote:
Had just got off my flight up from MIA and was walking through the terminal to baggage claim and I witnessed a Flight Attendant (male) and First Officer (also male) yelling at each other. The First Officer then pushed the Flight Attendant and said "You insulted me!"

I have no idea what was said, but the Captain had to quickly intervene and physically separate the two of them. This happened in Terminal A, so was definitely AA.

Have to say, the whole incident was very dispiriting to see.

Lovers tiff.......? hey, it's Philly
 
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:26 am

Many people don't know anything about crew members until they work in a position that deals with them on a daily basis. As usual with humans, there are fantastic crew members that realize the person on the other end of their conversation is another human and deals with them accordingly and like always, might be a little upset when things don't go their way but treat others with respect. On the flip side, there are many crew members who act like they are God's gift to mankind and think they are always right, always perfect, and can't do any wrong. I am assuming these two AA crew-members fell into the latter category.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
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N126DL
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:00 am

I’m a grown man looking at a career change into aviation but I’ll stay in education and referee adolescents who act like this before I’ll get around airplane folks who do. This place is supposed to be an enlightenment but lately it’s just a pissing match.

Some of the posters on this board need to work on presuming positive intentions from others and learn how to ask clarifying questions before unloading both barrels at another poster.

If it’s THAT serious, another hobby or distraction is needed. Take a break from this place.
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bennett123
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:31 am

IMO, (based on the evidence we have) this should lead to termination.

I work in another industry and recall an incident at a firm I used to work at.

There was a clash at a Company Christmas Event. Both parties were terminated.

In any situation where you are the public face of the company this is not acceptable.

The only exception is if one party is trying to crash the plane or something similar.
 
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:53 am

bennett123 wrote:
IMO, (based on the evidence we have) this should lead to termination.

I work in another industry and recall an incident at a firm I used to work at.

There was a clash at a Company Christmas Event. Both parties were terminated.

In any situation where you are the public face of the company this is not acceptable.

The only exception is if one party is trying to crash the plane or something similar.


the special circumstances will have to be looked at but:

Handling your employes as if they where serfs with full control over their 24/7 lifes is so 1900.

You pay for work being done. you have no say in private things and private interaction.
coming down on people like this only leads to more sinister activity out of view.
You are no longer punished for an action as such ( be that fair or not )
but being caught doing or set up for that action.
Murphy is an optimist
 
bennett123
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:56 am

I thought that it was a bit harsh.

However, it was a Company event.
 
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andrefranca
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:30 am

If it happens between air crew, you can imagine between air crew vs. ground crew where the tension is higher!

Working for many different airlines, I never a clash with them, even when they tried to humiliate me, I think I am better than that. But I have a friend who is still flying and whenever she is ill treated by a fellow colleague, she waits a bit and offer a juice glass to the person.... the person may never know that she spat on it...
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:04 pm

max999 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Guess what?

Some times two human beings don't like each other, especially if one is sensitive to slights.


I don't understand how you can downplay this incident when it's a complete breach of professionality to fight in front of customers. These AA employees acted with crass and are unprofessional. They need to take it 'outside.'

Sure, they were unprofessional, they should have resolved the issue elsewhere, but none of us are perfect, and some times things boil over.

All the 'tut, tut' reactions are over the top, IMO.

stl07 wrote:
It's not an a.net thread if, within the first few posts, the thread starter and the thread itself isn't attacked

It's not an a.net thread if, within the first dozen posts, some partisan takes the thread about airline X and uses it to attack airline Y.
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DWC
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:00 pm

cpd wrote:
In my industry, you do that and both would be out of their jobs quicker than the blink of an eye.

In my field of work, we just do not hire them
Being professional means going by the book, hit a nerve & the book goes out the window.
Such immature actions & childish responses "you insulted me" show poor human development.

There are psychological tests to gauge if people are mature or have "negative complexes", we all do, but in an industry like aviation, any pilot losing his temper should be dismissed & take a psy analysis. Suppose he or First Officer starts arguing like that ? Or with the ATC ?
In the russian space programme, ground control took it on them to have cosmonauts bitch at them rather than to fellow crew members. The flight deck is smaller than what the Saliut & Mir space stations were. I suppose Huston did the same with Skylab.
Flights are of course shorter, but still, hot tempers narrow conscience's bandwidth dramatically.

The bad image to the public is also a concern, but quite secondary relative to safety.
Otherwise put, FA losing temper is a company image & public disservice issue. It is non professional & should be sanctionned.
Pilot losing his temper is a life & death issue. Because of his higher pay & responsibilities, this is just inadmissible.
Asian carriers fire for much less.
Last edited by DWC on Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
DALMD80
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:05 pm

Coulda been Envoy or any other regional working for AAL.
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Galwayman
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:42 pm

If there was any physical contact they should both be fired , no ifs , no buts , no excuses ...
 
IPFreely
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:44 pm

DALMD80 wrote:
Coulda been Envoy or any other regional working for AAL.


Could literally have been any airline employees deadheading or commuting. They might not have been from the same crew or even the same airline. The OP's "happened in terminal A, so has to be AA" is a highly irresponsible conclusion.
 
bennett123
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:56 pm

The fact that a Captain, FO and FA involved seems to suggest all were on the same flight.

What uniform were they wearing?
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:33 pm

Most companies have Work Environment Policies and, regardless which airline they worked for, both would be able to file a complaint utilizing the established protocols associated with their company’s policy.

That being said, do I believe that all, or most, confrontations in the workplace need to be reported? NO.

If they are both unionized employees, they would also have a Professional Standards process through their union which allows the issue to be handled informally.
 
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:09 pm

bravotango75 wrote:
Lovers tiff.......? hey, it's Philly


The AA lovers in a jetbridge caught on tape somewhere was more interesting than this, saw some mass shared jetbridge cam recording floating around.
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mham001
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:32 pm

Galwayman wrote:
If there was any physical contact they should both be fired , no ifs , no buts , no excuses ...


I disagree. The only person who should be automatically fired is the one making the physical contact, which is assault. Perhaps there is more to the story justifying the second firing but we don't have that evidence.
 
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Miami
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:08 pm

N62NA wrote:
This happened in Terminal A, so was definitely AA.


You mean North Terminal. Concourse D.
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Door4Right
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:19 pm

While of course it's true that people have disagreements, that life is complicated, and that tempers can flare in any work environment, I am surprised to see so many comments normalizing this alleged incident.

I have been a flight attendant, manager, and training instructor in both charter and scheduled aviation for the better part of the past 30 years. While I certainly did not get along with every colleague and have occasionally had a tense workplace conversation, I would never dream of putting my hands on anybody at my place of employment unless I was defending myself. And if a crewmate of mine had dared to breach the professional boundary and pushed or shoved me? Unacceptable and you'd better believe I would report it to both my superior and to theirs. Period.
 
grbauc
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:47 am

Revelation wrote:
Guess what?

Some times two human beings don't like each other, especially if one is sensitive to slights.



Yep Jeez are we so sensitive to anything that makes us uncomfortable. These things happen everywhere all day. Moving on nothing to see

I’m studying about WW1 and the hard core battle issues of fighting in trenches and thinking and wondering how this generation compares current one.
 
grbauc
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:50 am

max999 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Guess what?

Some times two human beings don't like each other, especially if one is sensitive to slights.


I don't understand how you can downplay this incident when it's a complete breach of professionality to fight in front of customers. These AA employees acted with crass and are unprofessional. They need to take it 'outside.'



I’m going to take a guess he not part of the outraged and offended generation that is going to fix everyone and solve all world issues on the internet
 
IPFreely
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:00 am

max999 wrote:
These AA employees acted with crass and are unprofessional. They need to take it 'outside.'


As has been pointed out several times, there is zero proof that AA employees were involved in the alleged fight.
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:03 am

IPFreely wrote:
max999 wrote:
These AA employees acted with crass and are unprofessional. They need to take it 'outside.'


As has been pointed out several times, there is zero proof that AA employees were involved in the alleged fight.


Exactly.

I’m getting to the point with this where I’m gonna say...

Pics or it didn’t happen.
 
benjjk
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:30 am

Karlsands wrote:
Would be money this flight attendant “dude” was overly sensitive and some sort of “I’m always a victim look at me character “


It was the FO who responded to the perceived insult to his ego with force. In my experience, the people who react like that are the same macho men who deride 'snowflakes' for not being able to take a joke.
 
max999
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:24 am

millionsofmiles wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
max999 wrote:
These AA employees acted with crass and are unprofessional. They need to take it 'outside.'


As has been pointed out several times, there is zero proof that AA employees were involved in the alleged fight.


Exactly.

I’m getting to the point with this where I’m gonna say...

Pics or it didn’t happen.


Calling news you don't like fake news is an intellectually lazy argument. This was a first hand eye witness account to an event. It's much more accurate than a second hand account like social media or the news media.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
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PW100
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Re: Not A Good Thing To See - Pilot And Flight Attendant In Physical Altercation At PHL

Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:28 am

N62NA wrote:
jagraham wrote:
The incident will certainly have to be reported. The question is what did the F/A do after the FO shoved her? The words are bad enough but physical attacks are usually grounds for immediate dismissal . . .


Both involved were male.


Perhaps the word "alpha" should be inserted somewhere in there . . . ?
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