JamesCousins
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Re: Rumor: Delta installing IFE on B717s

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:16 pm

questions wrote:
JamesCousins wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:

...and weight and passenger comfort benefits too - the shielding (and at one time the connectors) on those things can be massive, and are one reason the seat mounted shrouds have to be at least a certain size to allow bends.

It makes perfect sense for an A339, but the weight savings would obviously less apparent on a 712.


I don't know what shape the 717s cabins are in, but it also means the need to completely rip apart less of a cabin and make way for mounting of under-seat boxes


I thought DL’s new streaming to seat back screen IFE system negated the need for under-seat boxes or allowed them to be significantly smaller.

Please clarify.


Apologies for the very poor wording, it's supposed to say "...but it also means the need to completely rip apart a cabin and make way for mounting of under seat boxes is gone". Will edit the original post.
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lightsaber
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Re: Rumor: Delta installing IFE on B717s

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:28 pm

TW870 wrote:
It is striking (if true) that the 717 will get IFE given that the A220 is going to be taking over a good amount of the longer 717 flying (some of the 2-hour flights out of SLC and SEA, and the LGA-Florida shoulder season flying), leaving most 717 trips under 750 miles out of DTW, MSP, and ATL.

The more efficient A220 saves more fuel on longer runs, so it makes sense to preferentially fly the A220 further. In particular as the 717 has a high 110,000 cycle limit. (In my opinion the A220 is designed for far more hours and cycles than the current certification.)

I speculate the extended leases are cheap enough that DL will also reduce frequency. For example, there might be 3 flights a day during busy season to/from ATL. But slow season (now) one per day.

Every airline effectively has three fleets:
1. High utilization, 8.5+ hours per day averaged over a year or 3,100+ per year (it isn't a precise number). For this flying an airline should be under ten years old technology. For example, DL's A321NEO order.
2. Mid utilization, 6 to 8 hours per day or more precisely 2,200 to about 3,000 hours per year. This type of flying can be discounted new (for example DL's 739s) or older aircraft up to about 24 years old. Both strategies work, it is a question of downtime risk and fuel risk
3. Low utilization, which tends to be seasonal. For this category talking hours per day does not make sense if, like Allegiant and I believe this sub-fleet at DL, half the fleet is parked in September after labor day but during the summer run at the upper end of mid-utilization. It might not be individual aircraft parked, but we certainly see a spike up at the MROs.
We also see airlines like AA who used MD-80s as reserve aircraft. I flew LAX-DFW hundreds of times for work on AA. I noticed on Mondays there were 5 early morning flights scheduled. The first, a 757 back then, always went out. The 4th, a 767 rotation, always went out. The three MD-80 flights would be merged into the other flights if demand was low. But on peak days, all 5 went out. I saw the whole spectrum (2,3,4, or 5 early morning aircraft dispatched LAX-DFW). I know DL on cities to ATL has the same ready reserve capacity. These aircraft must be cheap, or 12+ years old.

I speculate DL will retain the 717s for mostly category 3, fly only when yield is high. I suspect the A220s will rotate in on short routes when frequency is cut for slow season. Not now, when DL needs more aircraft.

Does anyone have a link to DL 717 utilization?

I rather like this analysis of 717 utilization at DL, but I am looking for yearly hours flown. I agree that without an organization such as Delta Techops, taking advantage of the available discounted aircraft would not have been possible.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/vision-7 ... gic-miller

A CAPA link on 717, similar, but different aspects and
https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... west-75314


I find it interesting that adding IFE costs half as much as WN/Boeing had to pay to covert the 717 to DL configuration I disagree that DL paid the same as WN for lease rates.

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wjcandee
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Re: Rumor: Delta installing IFE on B717s

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:51 pm

Fuel consumption alone isn't enough to park the 717s. If fuel usage were the only issue, the MD80s and MD90s would be flying for years to come, the aerodynamic upgrade to the MD80s (which worked) would have been installed on the whole fleet, and an avionics upgrade similar to the halted IS&S solution would have been applied. It is apparent that the big reason the MD90s are leaving is the engines, and if DL had taken the V2500D5 in house, the outcome might have been different.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Rumor: Delta installing IFE on B717s

Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:10 pm

catiii wrote:

September11 wrote:
Interesting new development, indeed. Personally speaking, I flew on a DL 717, from BOS to LGA sometime last year. I thought my flight experience was rather little boring. Perhaps, flying on near future DL 717s with IFE should be an improvement for all. I suppose IFE on DL 717s will take over flight attendants' traditional pre-flight safety demonstration.


It’s a 40 minute flight. How boring could it be?



airportugal310 wrote:
September11 wrote:
Interesting new development, indeed. Personally speaking, I flew on a DL 717, from BOS to LGA sometime last year. I thought my flight experience was rather little boring. Perhaps, flying on near future DL 717s with IFE should be an improvement for all. I suppose IFE on DL 717s will take over flight attendants' traditional pre-flight safety demonstration.


Not really sure what you were expecting on a ~35-40min flight??


Plenty of 35-40 min flights with PTVs out there. Not sure why people care so much if someone was bored on a short flight? It's their prerogative (they did say personally speaking).
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SteelChair
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Re: Rumor: Delta installing IFE on B717s

Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:45 pm

I have been saying for awhile that the 717 will soldier on for Delta. There is no replacement for its short haul mission, the A220 is a different animal. The 717 engines are not that inefficient, especialy when flown on short legs in the east.

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