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chonetsao
Posts: 713
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: [rumor] CX Group brand consolidation

Fri May 08, 2020 9:12 am

I always loved the old Dragonair livery.
 
reply1984
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:55 pm

Re: [rumor] CX Group brand consolidation

Fri May 08, 2020 9:13 am

The so-called source says a press conference will be held to announce the restructuring plan at Hong Kong time 1700 . Now it is Hong Kong time 1712, and no news comes out.

So, fake news, at least for now.
 
raylee67
Posts: 934
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: [rumor] CX Group brand consolidation

Fri May 08, 2020 9:32 am

CX probably has started thinking about it for a long time. The pandemic may have accelerated or changed some of the thinking, but probably not the entire reason behind it. Note that Cathay has also re-acquired fully Air Hong Kong some time ago (before they bought HK Express).

So now there are 5 brands:
- Cathay Pacific (mainline long haul and more business focused)
- Cathay Dragon (mainline short/medium haul, also more China focused)
- HK Express (LCC with many Japan, Korea, SE Asia routes)
- Cathay Pacific Cargo
- Air Hong Kong (mainly operating flights on behalf of DHL)

The consolidation between CX, KA and UO will probably be similar to the consolidation between Singapore, Silkair, Scott and Tiger. My guess would be:
- Cathay Dragon brand retires
- Newer A330s go to CX, with a clear single product (now the seat product is a mess, especially between business class and first class, e.g. KA has first class on some A330, but those are the same as long haul business class seats on CX's A330. And then CX itself now has both long haul business class and regional business class seats, which are very different)
- Some older KA A330 could actually go to UO, so that UO can fly high-demand LCC routes (e.g. HKG-HND can switch to A330 with LCC configuration)
- The A321NEO order will be split between CX and UO. Some China routes are more business focused and do not need the capacity of A330, especially if CX wants to maintain higher frequency, so the full-service CX does need some A321 after it absorbs KA.
- Leisure routes that CX/KA fly to now may be fully taken over by UO (e.g. Phuket, Cebu, Kota Kinabalu, Okinawa, Jeju, etc.)
- if CX is really talking to Boeing about switching the 777X order to 787-10, they will announce at the same time
- On the cargo side, not sure if they will do something with Air Hong Kong, but Air Hong Kong has started taking delivery of A330P2F lately, so may be CX will start converting some of their A330-300 to freighters for Air Hong Kong, especially if they really switch the 777X order to 787-10
- As of the UO brand, personally I think CX Express is a lame name. They need something more energetic, more fun, for the LCC brand. Something that clearly separates UO from CX.
Last edited by raylee67 on Fri May 08, 2020 9:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
raylee67
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Re: [rumor] CX Group brand consolidation

Fri May 08, 2020 9:33 am

reply1984 wrote:
The so-called source says a press conference will be held to announce the restructuring plan at Hong Kong time 1700 . Now it is Hong Kong time 1712, and no news comes out.

So, fake news, at least for now.


The article is updated with this: 國泰收市後僅公布,原訂5月13日(周三)的股東周年大會延期,會押後至6月30日或之前舉行。

The press conf will be moved to an unspecified dates before Jun 30. So may be they need more time to hammer things out.
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AY LH OU SR BA FI LX
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
DarQuiet
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Re: [rumor] CX Group brand consolidation

Fri May 08, 2020 9:40 am

How much of an impact this rumor will make anyway if executed? Will it also involve sacking of people?

And should it remain a rumor, what move do we think is best then for CX?
 
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Polot
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Re: [rumor] CX Group brand consolidation

Fri May 08, 2020 10:59 am

This was pretty much inevitable since CX decided to rename Dragonair to Cathay Dragon and aligned the branding.
 
airhansa
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: [rumor] CX Group brand consolidation

Fri May 08, 2020 11:03 am

I would rather have the "Cathay Dragon" brand because it's easier to translate into the Chinese (and other Asian) languages since both Cathay (契丹) and Dragon (龙) have native equivalents in Asia. "Pacific" is basically a western name that needs to be transliterated phonetically into characters that would otherwise be gibberish.

raylee67 wrote:
CX probably has started thinking about it for a long time. The pandemic may have accelerated or changed some of the thinking, but probably not the entire reason behind it. Note that Cathay has also re-acquired fully Air Hong Kong some time ago (before they bought HK Express).

So now there are 5 brands:
- Cathay Pacific (mainline long haul and more business focused)
- Cathay Dragon (mainline short/medium haul, also more China focused)
- HK Express (LCC with many Japan, Korea, SE Asia routes)
- Cathay Pacific Cargo
- Air Hong Kong (mainly operating flights on behalf of DHL)

The consolidation between CX, KA and UO will probably be similar to the consolidation between Singapore, Silkair, Scott and Tiger. My guess would be:
- Cathay Dragon brand retires
- Newer A330s go to CX, with a clear single product (now the seat product is a mess, especially between business class and first class, e.g. KA has first class on some A330, but those are the same as long haul business class seats on CX's A330. And then CX itself now has both long haul business class and regional business class seats, which are very different)
- Some older KA A330 could actually go to UO, so that UO can fly high-demand LCC routes (e.g. HKG-HND can switch to A330 with LCC configuration)
- The A321NEO order will be split between CX and UO. Some China routes are more business focused and do not need the capacity of A330, especially if CX wants to maintain higher frequency, so the full-service CX does need some A321 after it absorbs KA.
- Leisure routes that CX/KA fly to now may be fully taken over by UO (e.g. Phuket, Cebu, Kota Kinabalu, Okinawa, Jeju, etc.)
- if CX is really talking to Boeing about switching the 777X order to 787-10, they will announce at the same time
- On the cargo side, not sure if they will do something with Air Hong Kong, but Air Hong Kong has started taking delivery of A330P2F lately, so may be CX will start converting some of their A330-300 to freighters for Air Hong Kong, especially if they really switch the 777X order to 787-10
- As of the UO brand, personally I think CX Express is a lame name. They need something more energetic, more fun, for the LCC brand. Something that clearly separates UO from CX.


- Cathay Dragon should become the main staple of the airline, similar to Virgin Australia, Virgin Atlantic or Brussels Airlines in terms of offering. I'd suggest that certain high value flights can fly as Cathay Pacific with superior facilities (e.g. Hong Kong to New York, similar to BA LCY flights to NYC), with in-line connecting flights to other national airlines (or trains) that will always fly to a high value destination such as Hong Kong (e.g. New York to Bengaluru via Vistara).

- I don't understand the need for two cargo airlines, both Cathay Cargo and Air Hong Kong.

- Air Hong Kong would be a good name for the low cost airline, but Hong Kong Express is still a good band name in my opinion. Cathay Express devalues the brand for both concepts IMO.

I just worry that Hong Kong will lose a high-value brand with Cathay Pacific. The market might be going down for the type of business travel, but Cathay Pacific still offers one of the best services out there.

And, I think this would be a good opportunity to use/sell combination tickets with the plethora of ferry and high-speed rail options from Hong Kong.
 
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Polot
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Re: [rumor] CX Group brand consolidation

Fri May 08, 2020 11:29 am

airhansa wrote:

- Cathay Dragon should become the main staple of the airline, similar to Virgin Australia, Virgin Atlantic or Brussels Airlines in terms of offering. I'd suggest that certain high value flights can fly as Cathay Pacific with superior facilities (e.g. Hong Kong to New York, similar to BA LCY flights to NYC), with in-line connecting flights to other national airlines (or trains) that will always fly to a high value destination such as Hong Kong (e.g. New York to Bengaluru via Vistara).

The problem is Cathay Dragon/Dragonair does not have strong recognition in Europe and the Americas (unsure about Australia).

If you want to keep both brands around similar to your line of thinking it probably makes more sense to use Cathay Dragon as the groups regional arm (no more CX regional fleet) and Cathay Pacific exclusively for long haul intercontinental flights. Similar to old Virgin Blue and V Australia.
Last edited by Polot on Fri May 08, 2020 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
itisi
Posts: 311
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Re: [rumor] CX Group brand consolidation

Fri May 08, 2020 11:31 am

Cathay Pacific and Cathay Express... Just please use the Hong Kong Express scheme... Not the boring CX/KA scheme
737-300/400/500 ... are NOT classics :)
 
BHRN
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 11:16 am

Re: [rumor] CX Group brand consolidation

Fri May 08, 2020 11:41 am

First post here....just some inputs for those who are not familiar with the situation.

CX group actually owns 4 AOC:

1. Cathay Pacific - Mainline, full service, including CX Cargo
2. Cathay Dragon - Regional, full service
3. HK Express - Regional, LCC
4. Air Hong Kong - Regional, Cargo

(1) is definitely here to stay.

(2) Aside from the brand awareness and value in China and some Asian countries, another reason (which I reckon a lot of us here might have overlooked) for it to hang around till today, was traffic rights. A lot of bi-laterals signed between HK and other jurisdiction has a quota on operators. By having both CX and KA holding traffic rights to a same destination, it virtually blocks new local entrants. On the other hand, (please correct me if wrong), certain traffic rights cannot be handed over as some of us here suggest. It's not like CX can handover rights to KA (or v.v.) as freely as they wish. If an operator decides to withdraw from a market, the traffic rights will go back to THB/ATLA and then re-allocated to applicants.

(4) AHK has been a JV between CX and DHL until a few years ago. Although it is now fully acquired by CX, it still has a long-term contract with DHL, with part of its fleet dry-leased from DHL. And most importantly, a majority of AHK pilots are of south east asian nationalities which translates to a lower cost base.

It looks to me if any restructuring would take place, it would be a re-shuffle of CX, KA and UO and keeping the AOCs of CX and KA for traffic rights reasons. Routes operated by UO has less/no traffic rights restrictions which makes this AOC less relevant to the restructured entity. LD would largely remain intact unless there are business changes initiated by DHL.

B-HRN
 
VRHNM
Posts: 123
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Re: [rumor] CX Group brand consolidation

Fri May 08, 2020 4:35 pm

I highly doubt that any new consolidated brand between KA and UO would be anything near 'Cathay Express'. No premium brand like Cathay Pacific would dilute their own brand name with a LCC operation adopting a similar name (assuming the new consolidated carrier operates as a LCC).
 
airhansa
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: [rumor] CX Group brand consolidation

Fri May 08, 2020 5:14 pm

VRHNM wrote:
I highly doubt that any new consolidated brand between KA and UO would be anything near 'Cathay Express'. No premium brand like Cathay Pacific would dilute their own brand name with a LCC operation adopting a similar name (assuming the new consolidated carrier operates as a LCC).


My personal preference is for Cathay Pacific branding to be used only on a rare range of high value long haul flights with superior facilities/services, similar to how the BA's Club World flights from LCY are above their normal offering, but of course an airline like Cathay Pacific can do it better than BA. Though I don't actually believe that the Cathay Pacific brand needs to be retained for the Asian market, just for the Western market.

Cathay Dragon should be used for all regular flights, with an offering similar to Virgin Australia or Brussels Airlines. It should theoretically be a replacement for Cathay Pacific without wasting the Cathay Pacific brand. Cathay Dragon is also easy to translate into most Asian languages and it looks better as a brand.

Not sure what to do with HK Express, but I don't quite understand what's wrong with HK express as a brand.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 713
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Re: Cathay Pacific to cut capacity

Fri May 08, 2020 5:29 pm

With what is going on in Hong Kong, maybe CX should consider moving Cathay Dragon or Dragonair brand into a third territory. To establish a new airline using KA code and Cathay Dragon name and to transfer some of the aircrafts to that territory in order to protect the Swire interests and Cathay Pacific brand.

Some suitable locations like Taiwan, Canada, Singapore or Australia comes to mind, pending to local regulatory permission.

Moving Dragonair brand to Taiwan should be easiest if CX can find a way to get approval. CX already operate quite few Taipei - South Korea and Japan routes (I think at peak there were 5 cities served from Taipei to South Korea and Japan). CX could just move all the Taiwan operation into a brand that is familiar with local customers. Dragonair is a strong brand. But this could be the riskiest move political wise.

Moving to Singapore would be too much competition which i don't see it feasible. But moving to Canada or Australia is also problematic.

Thus, I don't see it happening. Yet, if I am Swire family, looking at what was going on last 10 months or so in Hong Kong, some strategic decision needs to be made.
 
VRHNM
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Re: [rumor] CX Group brand consolidation

Fri May 08, 2020 5:37 pm

airhansa wrote:
VRHNM wrote:
I highly doubt that any new consolidated brand between KA and UO would be anything near 'Cathay Express'. No premium brand like Cathay Pacific would dilute their own brand name with a LCC operation adopting a similar name (assuming the new consolidated carrier operates as a LCC).


My personal preference is for Cathay Pacific branding to be used only on a rare range of high value long haul flights with superior facilities/services, similar to how the BA's Club World flights from LCY are above their normal offering, but of course an airline like Cathay Pacific can do it better than BA. Though I don't actually believe that the Cathay Pacific brand needs to be retained for the Asian market, just for the Western market.

Cathay Dragon should be used for all regular flights, with an offering similar to Virgin Australia or Brussels Airlines. It should theoretically be a replacement for Cathay Pacific without wasting the Cathay Pacific brand. Cathay Dragon is also easy to translate into most Asian languages and it looks better as a brand.

Not sure what to do with HK Express, but I don't quite understand what's wrong with HK express as a brand.


The Cathay Pacific brand is far stronger than Cathay Dragon in many key Asian markets such as Japan, South Korea, the Philippines, Thailand and Singapore. Moving these destinations to KA doesn't really solve anything and incurs costs on the CX group to move aircraft between carriers + rebranding processes. If anything the KA brand would be absorbed into the CX brand since the CX brand is much more recognised compared to its regional arm.
 
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huaiwei
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Re: Cathay Pacific to cut capacity

Fri May 08, 2020 7:07 pm

chonetsao wrote:
With what is going on in Hong Kong, maybe CX should consider moving Cathay Dragon or Dragonair brand into a third territory. To establish a new airline using KA code and Cathay Dragon name and to transfer some of the aircrafts to that territory in order to protect the Swire interests and Cathay Pacific brand.

Or become the UK's and Australia's second largest carrier and replace the Virgin Brand? ;)
It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
 
UAUA
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Will Cathay Dragon become a low cost airline?

Fri May 15, 2020 8:59 am

If it merges with Hong Kong Express , will it become a low cist carrier?

No idea how it works. If Cathay Express becomes a low cost carrier that means all flights to China, regional.Asia will become low cost. If it stays full service CX will have no low cost carrier
My former profile name was United Airline.
 
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flee
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Re: Will Cathay Dragon become a low cost airline?

Fri May 15, 2020 9:21 am

It is most likely - just like Singapore Airlines merging with Silkair will result in SQ (FSC) and TR (LCC). The question that remains is which AOC will Cathay Express utilise?
 
VRHNM
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Re: Cathay Pacific to cut capacity

Fri May 22, 2020 11:09 am

There is no way that the new low cost carrier would be named anything near 'Cathay Express'. No premium airline would dilute its brand like that.
 
lalib
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Re: Cathay Pacific to cut capacity

Fri May 22, 2020 11:51 am

VRHNM wrote:
There is no way that the new low cost carrier would be named anything near 'Cathay Express'. No premium airline would dilute its brand like that.


True and good point.

CX took their their time in changing dragon air to cathay dragon - which I think was a good thing. Noted that dragon air was not low cost.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Cathay Pacific to cut capacity

Tue May 26, 2020 3:48 am

Seems CAAC a stumbling block in merging CX and Dragon into a unified brand.

CAAC sees it as merger which could be problematic for traffic rights as Dragon has access to 20 Chinese markets on its own while CX only has 2 and is banned from expanding further at the moment.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2320BR
mercure f-wtcc
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Cathay Pacific to cut capacity

Tue May 26, 2020 12:18 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Seems CAAC a stumbling block in merging CX and Dragon into a unified brand.

CAAC sees it as merger which could be problematic for traffic rights as Dragon has access to 20 Chinese markets on its own while CX only has 2 and is banned from expanding further at the moment.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2320BR


Which proved that they really plan to
axe KA.

KA may become a paper airline only flying to China,
but everything is wet-lease by CX
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:17 pm

Cathay Dragon is set to keep flying for the foreseeable future with a new CEO but network may be limited to China only. Regional flying could be divided between CX mainline and HK Express.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... et-new-ceo
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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mercure1
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:04 am

Cathay Pacific, major shareholders Swire and Air China halt trading in Hong Kong

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN23G022


CA buying out some Swire shares?
mercure f-wtcc
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:11 am

Or Qatar expanding its stake?
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
yonahleung
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:36 am

Current rumour in Hong Kong is that there may be a state bailout of Cathay Pacific.
 
twoodsmnl
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:51 am

Is Air China taking over Cathay Pacific?

 Cathay Pacific Airways plus its major shareholders Swire Pacific and Air China halt the trading of their shares in Hong Kong pending announcements. Cathay has grounded most of its jetliners, flying only cargo and very few passenger flights to major destinations.
 
eurotrader85
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:05 am

Very interesting that they tried to raise capital in the private market but couldn't due to the "political sensitivities surrounding its ownership".

Just be interesting to know how much that 'undisclosed stake' is. Politically suits everyone the structure in a difficult time. Without drifting the topic in that direction, an Air China takeover would be pouring petrol on a fire for the Hong Kongers at the moment, and Swire can still stear the ship the right way. Meanwhile Beijing can put diplomatic pressure on the group if it see's it getting out of line, as it did on HSBC and Standard Chartered last week, through the HK government. Not saying that that is particularly pleasant as a notion for most of us in the real world, but given the economic situation its the sad price for CX to pay. Would also probably explain the new CEO taking over at KA.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hon ... kong-stock
Last edited by eurotrader85 on Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:07 am

HK$30 billion government bailout, government will take a stake in Cathay Pacific.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hon ... kong-stock
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:03 pm

I was expecting Swire to call it quit given the current political situation. I guess not.

A bailout is not unexpected. On the other hand, I just hope that HK govt doesn't start putting their own useless officials into CX and turn it into a TG or MH.

P.S. Poor HX...I guess game over for them?
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:12 pm

All told HK government gets roughly a 6% stake in CX Group and says it will will maintain the stake "for at most five years"

CX says by Q4 it hopes to announce results of study focused on "optimum size and shape of the Cathay Pacific Group going forward"

Per CX chairman

“We are in a very dynamic situation. We need to make the right decisions to adapt to the new reality of global aviation and secure our long-term future. This will require re-evaluating all aspects of our business model in light of the rapidly changing macro and industry dynamics. Inevitably this will involve rationalisation of future planned capacity compared to our pre-crisis plans, taking into account the market outlook and cost structure at that time.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
BR777
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:24 am

All in all it's pretty much a nationalization of CX in a different guise. CX is worth $34-some billion and after the $4.5 billion loss in April and now the $30 billion bail out package, you can do the math.

The Aviation 2020 Holding is set up and owned by the HK government. With the 2 non-voting board members being added in, they will be the government influence acting as Beijing's proxy to affect the direction of the airline in the future.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:09 am

BR777 wrote:
All in all it's pretty much a nationalization of CX in a different guise. CX is worth $34-some billion and after the $4.5 billion loss in April and now the $30 billion bail out package, you can do the math.

The Aviation 2020 Holding is set up and owned by the HK government. With the 2 non-voting board members being added in, they will be the government influence acting as Beijing's proxy to affect the direction of the airline in the future.


In general it is almost a lesser of two devil - being control by HK govt or being directly control by central Chinese govt via CA.

Anyway, there are, of course, lots of "opposition" to the bailout at least by keyboard warriors of HK. In reality, with govt worldwide bailing out airlines, HK govt will not let CX fail. In the bigger picture there is the 3rd runway being build right now also - if CX is gone, then what? A shiny new runway with the airport operating at a much lower utilization?

If HK govt is smart they will do what Singapore govt is doing to SQ, i.e. just stay out of making any decisions. Hard to say with the much more incompetent govt in HK compare to Singapore, though.
 
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c933103
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:08 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
BR777 wrote:
All in all it's pretty much a nationalization of CX in a different guise. CX is worth $34-some billion and after the $4.5 billion loss in April and now the $30 billion bail out package, you can do the math.

The Aviation 2020 Holding is set up and owned by the HK government. With the 2 non-voting board members being added in, they will be the government influence acting as Beijing's proxy to affect the direction of the airline in the future.


In general it is almost a lesser of two devil - being control by HK govt or being directly control by central Chinese govt via CA.

Anyway, there are, of course, lots of "opposition" to the bailout at least by keyboard warriors of HK. In reality, with govt worldwide bailing out airlines, HK govt will not let CX fail. In the bigger picture there is the 3rd runway being build right now also - if CX is gone, then what? A shiny new runway with the airport operating at a much lower utilization?

If HK govt is smart they will do what Singapore govt is doing to SQ, i.e. just stay out of making any decisions. Hard to say with the much more incompetent govt in HK compare to Singapore, though.

I don't think CA would be allowed to have direct majority comtrol in CX according to both the law and the contract, unless they decided to bend both?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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yonahleung
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:51 am

c933103 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
BR777 wrote:
All in all it's pretty much a nationalization of CX in a different guise. CX is worth $34-some billion and after the $4.5 billion loss in April and now the $30 billion bail out package, you can do the math.

The Aviation 2020 Holding is set up and owned by the HK government. With the 2 non-voting board members being added in, they will be the government influence acting as Beijing's proxy to affect the direction of the airline in the future.


In general it is almost a lesser of two devil - being control by HK govt or being directly control by central Chinese govt via CA.

Anyway, there are, of course, lots of "opposition" to the bailout at least by keyboard warriors of HK. In reality, with govt worldwide bailing out airlines, HK govt will not let CX fail. In the bigger picture there is the 3rd runway being build right now also - if CX is gone, then what? A shiny new runway with the airport operating at a much lower utilization?

If HK govt is smart they will do what Singapore govt is doing to SQ, i.e. just stay out of making any decisions. Hard to say with the much more incompetent govt in HK compare to Singapore, though.

I don't think CA would be allowed to have direct majority comtrol in CX according to both the law and the contract, unless they decided to bend both?

Bending the law and contract is sadly, the new normal in Hong Kong...
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:42 am

c933103 wrote:
I don't think CA would be allowed to have direct majority comtrol in CX according to both the law and the contract, unless they decided to bend both?

IIRC the only hurdle from legislation purpose is that if you own more than 30% of a company you must be the biggest shareholder.

Contract with Swire is another thing though.

Michael
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:12 am

The HK government may simply sell their new CX shares at a profit when conditions normalise.

In 1998 they bought massive stakes in many companies on the HK stock exchange to stop an investor rout. Later these stakes were sold at a profit.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:20 am

I don't want to be too political, but my assessment is highly relevant to CX's future.

I think every big business and investors are waiting for end of September regarding Hong Kong's future. As of now, CX's major shareholder Swire, and other foreign entities that is active in Hong Kong, are anxious in finding a balance between safeguard their long term investments and the short to medium term political outlook. The reality of downward beat would be persistent due to local political situation. However, what happens in China in September behind closed door in a meeting among the POLITBORU members may provide a chance of breath, or continued dark outlook for the city.

This time, it will be very different from 1997/1998. HKG government holding in CX will only grow as companies like Swire seeking an exit strategy. In medium term, HKG government's holding in CX may be sold to entities like CITIC, Pingan, or even quasi state political banks like China Development Bank. If the current trend continues, it will be only a matter of time before more Chinese SOE money comes into HKG in the name of 'rescue' Hong Kong business.

However, I do not see Air China takes over CX. It will be too much a symbolic invasion even to top Chinese policy maker's ideology. If CX is to surrender to Chinese interests, it would be held through a complex web of Chinese major SOEs which has nothing to do with aviation. And such Chinese major SOEs must have at least one be from names that are familiar in Hong Kong capital market since 1980's. (hence names like CITIC...)

So let us wait for September/October to see what comes from Beijing, and what Swire would do in response. The drama have just began.
 
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c933103
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:56 am

According to public email sent by Cathay, they will restore flights to following destinations in June and July progressively:
Mainland China:
Beijing, Shanghai (PVG), Chengdu, Fuzhou, Guangzhou, Hangzhou, Xiamen
Asia:
Bangkok, Ho Chi Minh City, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Manila, Singapore, Taipei, Tokyo (NRT), Mumbai, New Delhi, Seoul
Southwest Pacific:
Sydney, Melbourne
Europe:
London (LHR), Amsterdam, Frankfurt
The Americas:
Los Angeles, Vancouver, New York (JFK), San Francisco, Toronto
--------
It seems to be missing some destinations like Osaka which it previously announced resumption?
And what's with all those Chinese destinations especially Guangzhou when they're still not allowing transfer from/to Mainland China?
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airhansa
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:35 pm

Japan isn't going to open up by July,

Mainland Chinese and various other Chinese (HK, Taiwan, Macau) are allowed to travel through HK onto Mainland China (and vice versa) if I'm correct in believing. Surely that's the bulk of CX passengers?
 
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c933103
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:23 am

airhansa wrote:
Japan isn't going to open up by July,

Mainland Chinese and various other Chinese (HK, Taiwan, Macau) are allowed to travel through HK onto Mainland China (and vice versa) if I'm correct in believing. Surely that's the bulk of CX passengers?

Cathay group and HX have both said that transferring from/to Mainland China isn't being allowed right now
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LAXintl
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:18 am

90 percent of staff agree to unpaid leave through the end of the year

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... und-unpaid
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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janders
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:22 am

CX looking at move 50+ widebody aircraft to the desert for storage

Cathay Pacific considers drier storage options for unused planes
https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SL4N2EC0NL
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:45 am

HK Express extends its grounding until atleast August 2nd.

https://www.hkexpress.com/en-hk/news/hk ... tion-plan/
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:31 pm

Cathay Pacific Airways shareholders – including main shareholders Swire Pacific, Air China and Qatar Airways – have approved a plan to raise HK$39 billion (US$5bn) in a government-backed rescue package that includes the sale of shares and a rights issue.

Cathay will sell HK$19.5bn of preference shares with HK$1.95bn of warrants to the Hong Kong government, which will own 6.08% of the carrier through a connected entity called Aviation 2020 and have two board seats. Aviation 2020 is extending a HK$7.8 billion bridge loan. Cathay plans to raise about HK$11.7 billion through the rights issue.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... d-collapse
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Speedalive
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:04 am

LAXintl wrote:
Cathay Pacific Airways shareholders – including main shareholders Swire Pacific, Air China and Qatar Airways – have approved a plan to raise HK$39 billion (US$5bn) in a government-backed rescue package that includes the sale of shares and a rights issue.

Cathay will sell HK$19.5bn of preference shares with HK$1.95bn of warrants to the Hong Kong government, which will own 6.08% of the carrier through a connected entity called Aviation 2020 and have two board seats. Aviation 2020 is extending a HK$7.8 billion bridge loan. Cathay plans to raise about HK$11.7 billion through the rights issue.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... d-collapse

Will be interesting to see what the restructuring plan will look like. Hopefully the forward bookings improve and they won't have to downsize as drastically. I feel like that might be wishful thinking.

Another more lengthy article: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hong-kong-economy/article/3092990/coronavirus-cathay-pacific-overhaul-set-begin
 
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mercure1
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:47 am

CX post-2020 first-half loss of HK$9.9 billion (US $1.3 billion).

Cash burn about HK$2.5 billion to HK$3 billion monthly since February

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cath ... SKCN24I0EK

Company release:
https://www.cathaypacific.com/content/d ... crechk.pdf
mercure f-wtcc
 
Scotron12
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Re: Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread

Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:49 am

CX has concluded negotiations with Airbus to defer deliveries on A350s and A321s. Will now receive them from now thru 2025 instead of from now thru 2023.

Also in advanced talks with Boeing to defer their 779s. No plans to cancel or swap for any 787s.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-catha ... KKCN24N01G
 
Ishrion
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Cathay Pacific/Dragon Retires The World's First A330

Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:07 pm

Cathay Pacific has announced the retirement of the world's first Airbus A330, B-HLJ.

This was the first A330 prototype (MSN 12) which rolled out in October 1992 and had its first flight on November 2, 1992.

Eventually, the aircraft was delivered to Cathay Pacific in 1996 and transferred to its subsidiary Dragonair in 2013.

B-HLJ was ferried from Hong Kong to Taipei Taoyuan last Friday after completing 63,900 hours and 26,983 cycles of service with Cathay Pacific.

This aircraft was never repainted in the Cathay Dragon livery, and still features the Dragonair branding.

Image

https://twitter.com/cathaypacific/statu ... 2757510144
Last edited by Ishrion on Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
TheWorm123
Posts: 256
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Re: Cathay Pacific/Dragon Retires The World's Oldest A330

Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:14 pm

Still an incredibly modern plane in terms of automation and design when you think about it, minus the outdated inefficient engines.
B752 B753 A332 A321 B738
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 3636
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Re: Cathay Pacific/Dragon Retires The World's First A330

Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:37 pm

Hopefully Airbus can acquire this frame back for a museum somewhere.
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