Mboyle1988
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What is VFR?

Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:53 pm

Sorry if this is out there but what does VFR mean?
Last edited by atcsundevil on Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Non descriptive title
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: VFR

Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:05 pm

Visual flight rules.

There's also IFR which means "instrument flight rules". You need only a private pilot license to fly VFR (ceilings as low as 1000 feet and 3 miles visibility in controlled airspace), but need to possess an instrument rating to fly IFR.

You can still fly in conditions lower than 1000 foot ceilings if you're in controlled airspace but must request "special VFR" from the controlling agency and must fly clear of clouds, with 1 mile visibility. You can fly clear of clouds in uncontrolled airspace if below 1200 feet above ground level without the need to request it.
 
alasizon
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Re: VFR

Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:06 pm

CarlosSi wrote:
Visual flight rules.

There's also IFR which means "instrument flight rules". You need only a private pilot license to fly VFR (ceilings as low as 1000 feet and 3 miles visibility in controlled airspace), but need to possess an instrument rating to fly IFR.

You can still fly in conditions lower than 1000 foot ceilings if you're in controlled airspace but must request "special VFR" from the controlling agency and must fly clear of clouds, with 1 mile visibility. You can fly clear of clouds in uncontrolled airspace if below 1200 feet above ground level without the need to request it.


VFR in the CivAv forum tends to mean visiting friends and relatives. The VFR/IFR side of the house is more common in Tech Ops.
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asdf
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Re: VFR

Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:07 pm

 
bigb
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Re: VFR

Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:14 pm

alasizon wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
Visual flight rules.

There's also IFR which means "instrument flight rules". You need only a private pilot license to fly VFR (ceilings as low as 1000 feet and 3 miles visibility in controlled airspace), but need to possess an instrument rating to fly IFR.

You can still fly in conditions lower than 1000 foot ceilings if you're in controlled airspace but must request "special VFR" from the controlling agency and must fly clear of clouds, with 1 mile visibility. You can fly clear of clouds in uncontrolled airspace if below 1200 feet above ground level without the need to request it.


VFR in the CivAv forum tends to mean visiting friends and relatives. The VFR/IFR side of the house is more common in Tech Ops.


I wish the forums would do away with using VFR to describe leisure travelers
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: VFR

Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:20 pm

alasizon wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
Visual flight rules.

There's also IFR which means "instrument flight rules". You need only a private pilot license to fly VFR (ceilings as low as 1000 feet and 3 miles visibility in controlled airspace), but need to possess an instrument rating to fly IFR.

You can still fly in conditions lower than 1000 foot ceilings if you're in controlled airspace but must request "special VFR" from the controlling agency and must fly clear of clouds, with 1 mile visibility. You can fly clear of clouds in uncontrolled airspace if below 1200 feet above ground level without the need to request it.


VFR in the CivAv forum tends to mean visiting friends and relatives. The VFR/IFR side of the house is more common in Tech Ops.


Ahahahah, I forgot that it means that as well :lol: .
 
ITSTours
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Re: VFR

Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:26 pm

Could be Visiting Friends and Relatives.

Typically I would link to lmgtfy but... this definition of VFR wouldn't come out easily.
 
Murdoughnut
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Re: VFR

Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:47 pm

bigb wrote:
alasizon wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
Visual flight rules.

There's also IFR which means "instrument flight rules". You need only a private pilot license to fly VFR (ceilings as low as 1000 feet and 3 miles visibility in controlled airspace), but need to possess an instrument rating to fly IFR.

You can still fly in conditions lower than 1000 foot ceilings if you're in controlled airspace but must request "special VFR" from the controlling agency and must fly clear of clouds, with 1 mile visibility. You can fly clear of clouds in uncontrolled airspace if below 1200 feet above ground level without the need to request it.


VFR in the CivAv forum tends to mean visiting friends and relatives. The VFR/IFR side of the house is more common in Tech Ops.


I wish the forums would do away with using VFR to describe leisure travelers


It's a pretty important distinction for those of us who work in the network planning/air service development world. VFR traffic is far more stable and predictable than non-VFR leisure traffic.
 
alasizon
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Re: VFR

Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:56 pm

Murdoughnut wrote:
bigb wrote:
alasizon wrote:

VFR in the CivAv forum tends to mean visiting friends and relatives. The VFR/IFR side of the house is more common in Tech Ops.


I wish the forums would do away with using VFR to describe leisure travelers


It's a pretty important distinction for those of us who work in the network planning/air service development world. VFR traffic is far more stable and predictable than non-VFR leisure traffic.


Plus just about nobody is really going to think that one is going to fly VFR JFK-GEO (to use a current example), it will definitely be your standard IFR airline route.

It has two meanings and there is just about no context I can think of that would allow for the two meanings to be confused since one is market based while the other is operationally based.
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vhtje
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:04 am

Murdoughnut wrote:
It's a pretty important distinction for those of us who work in the network planning/air service development world. VFR traffic is far more stable and predictable than non-VFR leisure traffic.


Now that, for a non-Aviation industry person but who nevertheless has a keen interest in aviation, is an interesting tidbit. Why would that be? Would you care to elaborate, please?

Obviously leisure travel would be pone to being affected by changes in the economy, but why wouldn’t VFR traffic also be similarly affected? (Or, affected to a lesser degree?)

And how does VFR traffic compare to business traffic in terms of being impacted by changes in economic conditions?
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HP69
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:51 am

It’s sorta confusing that VFR means two different things.
 
RobertS975
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:06 am

HP69 wrote:
It’s sorta confusing that VFR means two different things.


As a pilot, it sure confused me for the first few months on this board.
 
rbavfan
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:16 am

bigb wrote:
alasizon wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
Visual flight rules.

There's also IFR which means "instrument flight rules". You need only a private pilot license to fly VFR (ceilings as low as 1000 feet and 3 miles visibility in controlled airspace), but need to possess an instrument rating to fly IFR.

You can still fly in conditions lower than 1000 foot ceilings if you're in controlled airspace but must request "special VFR" from the controlling agency and must fly clear of clouds, with 1 mile visibility. You can fly clear of clouds in uncontrolled airspace if below 1200 feet above ground level without the need to request it.


VFR in the CivAv forum tends to mean visiting friends and relatives. The VFR/IFR side of the house is more common in Tech Ops.


I wish the forums would do away with using VFR to describe leisure travelers


The airlines need to stop using it that way first.
 
rbavfan
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:18 am

Would be nice if we knew whether he means flight rules or people.
Last edited by rbavfan on Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Web500sjc
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:20 am

vhtje wrote:
Murdoughnut wrote:
It's a pretty important distinction for those of us who work in the network planning/air service development world. VFR traffic is far more stable and predictable than non-VFR leisure traffic.


Now that, for a non-Aviation industry person but who nevertheless has a keen interest in aviation, is an interesting tidbit. Why would that be? Would you care to elaborate, please?

Obviously leisure travel would be pone to being affected by changes in the economy, but why wouldn’t VFR traffic also be similarly affected? (Or, affected to a lesser degree?)

And how does VFR traffic compare to business traffic in terms of being impacted by changes in economic conditions?



Generally VFR traffic “must” be there for holidays. As long as John Doe has the money and time to get to grandmothers house for any particular event (birthday, wedding, Christmas), John Doe will go.
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mapletux
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:23 am

vhtje wrote:
Murdoughnut wrote:
It's a pretty important distinction for those of us who work in the network planning/air service development world. VFR traffic is far more stable and predictable than non-VFR leisure traffic.


Now that, for a non-Aviation industry person but who nevertheless has a keen interest in aviation, is an interesting tidbit. Why would that be? Would you care to elaborate, please?

Obviously leisure travel would be pone to being affected by changes in the economy, but why wouldn’t VFR traffic also be similarly affected? (Or, affected to a lesser degree?)


People will almost always go to visit places where their friends and relatives are.
 
rbavfan
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:38 am

HP69 wrote:
It’s sorta confusing that VFR means two different things.


It is associated with the government. So there hase to be confusion and lack of sense.
 
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vhtje
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:39 am

Web500sjc wrote:
vhtje wrote:
Murdoughnut wrote:
It's a pretty important distinction for those of us who work in the network planning/air service development world. VFR traffic is far more stable and predictable than non-VFR leisure traffic.


Now that, for a non-Aviation industry person but who nevertheless has a keen interest in aviation, is an interesting tidbit. Why would that be? Would you care to elaborate, please?

Obviously leisure travel would be pone to being affected by changes in the economy, but why wouldn’t VFR traffic also be similarly affected? (Or, affected to a lesser degree?)

And how does VFR traffic compare to business traffic in terms of being impacted by changes in economic conditions?



Generally VFR traffic “must” be there for holidays. As long as John Doe has the money and time to get to grandmothers house for any particular event (birthday, wedding, Christmas), John Doe will go.


Thank you for your response. As VFR then chiefly an American phenomenon ? We know Americans travel home for Thanksgiving - but is the VFR effect as vivid outside of the USA?
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alasizon
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:58 am

Web500sjc wrote:
vhtje wrote:
Now that, for a non-Aviation industry person but who nevertheless has a keen interest in aviation, is an interesting tidbit. Why would that be? Would you care to elaborate, please?

Obviously leisure travel would be pone to being affected by changes in the economy, but why wouldn’t VFR traffic also be similarly affected? (Or, affected to a lesser degree?)

And how does VFR traffic compare to business traffic in terms of being impacted by changes in economic conditions?



Generally VFR traffic “must” be there for holidays. As long as John Doe has the money and time to get to grandmothers house for any particular event (birthday, wedding, Christmas), John Doe will go.


I don't know that I agree with this definition the way it is written. VFR passengers traditionally are those with stronger ties to the destination and they take X number of trips each year as part of their tie to that area. More VFR traffic tends to be first or second generation immigrants going back "home" to visit friends and relative who did not make the journey. It isn't just about holidays but rather the ties that exist between the individuals involved (those traveling and those being visited) and specific airport/destination pairs.

vhtje wrote:
As VFR then chiefly an American phenomenon ? We know Americans travel home for Thanksgiving - but is the VFR effect as vivid outside of the USA?

I would argue that "Americans" are the least likely group of folks to be considered VFR traffic. Those that are typically are immigrants or the children of immigrants going back to their original home country to visit friends/family. Countries with strong family values will exhibit more VFR traffic than those without (and by virtue, those who emigrated from a country with strong family values are more likely to return for a visit).

Traveling home for Thanksgiving/Christmas is less of predictable VFR than you would think because it isn't a tie between two specific airports but rather just folks going all across the country to visit family in the name of "holidays".
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SCQ83
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:19 am

vhtje wrote:
Murdoughnut wrote:
It's a pretty important distinction for those of us who work in the network planning/air service development world. VFR traffic is far more stable and predictable than non-VFR leisure traffic.


Now that, for a non-Aviation industry person but who nevertheless has a keen interest in aviation, is an interesting tidbit. Why would that be? Would you care to elaborate, please?

Obviously leisure travel would be pone to being affected by changes in the economy, but why wouldn’t VFR traffic also be similarly affected? (Or, affected to a lesser degree?)

And how does VFR traffic compare to business traffic in terms of being impacted by changes in economic conditions?


In some cases economic crisis in one country can impulse VFR traffic because more people migrate. Maybe in the US, let's say Puerto Rico-mainland US. Or Central America - US. However the US is probably overall not a good example because it is a very isolated country.

The current Ukrainian crisis is a perfect example. After the war that started with Russia in 2014 (and now that Ukrainians can travel to Western Europe visa-free), number of passengers and new routes from/to Ukraine have absolutely boomed.
 
Noshow
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:40 am

VFR means the pilot is responsible to look outside and separate his aircraft from other traffic and the terrain. When flying IFR he needs a different license and a specific equipment on board he is assisted by permanent air traffic control surveillance. (but finally he is still responsible). VFR can be done at night and above the clouds but not in the clouds. IFR can be done at daytime in bright sunshine. All bigger aircraft typically fly IFR all the time.
 
spacecadet
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Re: What is VFR?

Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:45 am

Never personally heard "VFR" used to mean "Visiting Friends and Relatives". I would think that would be at best extremely confusing in an aviation forum, because VFR has, and has always had, a pretty specific meaning in aviation. I would suggest not using a non-aviation context for it in an aviation forum if you want to be clear, as this thread itself is proving.
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Aesma
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Re: What is VFR?

Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:57 am

My mother comes from Italy, we go there regularly, during the holidays (of which there are many in France and Italy), vacation times in the summer/winter, etc. That's VFR, and is not really affected by economic conditions. I guess if more young Italians would move to France for work (which is the case), you could say that economic conditions add to the VFR traffic.

spacecadet wrote:
Never personally heard "VFR" used to mean "Visiting Friends and Relatives". I would think that would be at best extremely confusing in an aviation forum, because VFR has, and has always had, a pretty specific meaning in aviation. I would suggest not using a non-aviation context for it in an aviation forum if you want to be clear, as this thread itself is proving.


Both meanings are used in an aviation context.
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bigb
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Re: What is VFR?

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:05 am

Aesma wrote:
My mother comes from Italy, we go there regularly, during the holidays (of which there are many in France and Italy), vacation times in the summer/winter, etc. That's VFR, and is not really affected by economic conditions. I guess if more young Italians would move to France for work (which is the case), you could say that economic conditions add to the VFR traffic.

spacecadet wrote:
Never personally heard "VFR" used to mean "Visiting Friends and Relatives". I would think that would be at best extremely confusing in an aviation forum, because VFR has, and has always had, a pretty specific meaning in aviation. I would suggest not using a non-aviation context for it in an aviation forum if you want to be clear, as this thread itself is proving.


Both meanings are used in an aviation context.


But one meaning has a legal definition (visual flight rules).
 
Toinou
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Re: What is VFR?

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:07 am

Just as an input: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VFR

And typing "VFR travel" in Google gave me 16'400'000 answers.

So it should not that unusual.
 
VFRonTop
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Re: What is VFR?

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:26 am

I think I'm having an existential crisis :lol:
 
caribny
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Re: What is VFR?

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:01 pm

spacecadet wrote:
Never personally heard "VFR" used to mean "Visiting Friends and Relatives". I would think that would be at best extremely confusing in an aviation forum, because VFR has, and has always had, a pretty specific meaning in aviation. I would suggest not using a non-aviation context for it in an aviation forum if you want to be clear, as this thread itself is proving.



VFR meaning visiting friends and relatives is used very often on this forum, depending on where you visit. Certainly on Civil Aviation where there is much talk about the market characteristics of particular routes. Its clear that VFR markets are different from leisure, as both are different from business oriented routes.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:07 pm

caliboy93 wrote:
Can VFR also mean Visiting Family and Relatives, or is family already covered by Relatives?


To me, family and relatives are the same. They're blood related. Friends aren't, but they can be just as important as family.

vhtje wrote:
Thank you for your response. As VFR then chiefly an American phenomenon ? We know Americans travel home for Thanksgiving - but is the VFR effect as vivid outside of the USA?


Absolutely. Everywhere people have family or friends at a distance they want to visit for whatever reason, that's VFR.

The occasion can be a holiday like Christmas or Thanksgiving, but doesn't have to be. Sometimes people go visit their distanced family or friends just because they miss them and want to spend time with them.

bigb wrote:
I wish the forums would do away with using VFR to describe leisure travelers


But leisure and VFR are two different things, so when they're talking about VFR they aren't talking about leisure travelers.

Leisure is holiday traffic, visiting places for sightseeing, relaxing, adventure or anything of that kind. But leisure travelers aren't tied to that place because they know anybody there, mostly they don't. They go there because there's something else that attracts them to that place.

And that's the difference with VFR, which is going to a certain place because you have family or friends there you want to visit.
 
e38
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Re: What is VFR?

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:13 pm

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply # 24), " I would think that would be . . .confusing in an aviation forum."

No, it's not.

The average person can determine if VFR is referring to Visual Flight Rules or Visiting Friends and Relatives from the context of the sentence or the paragraph.

e38
 
alasizon
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Re: What is VFR?

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:20 pm

spacecadet wrote:
Never personally heard "VFR" used to mean "Visiting Friends and Relatives". I would think that would be at best extremely confusing in an aviation forum, because VFR has, and has always had, a pretty specific meaning in aviation. I would suggest not using a non-aviation context for it in an aviation forum if you want to be clear, as this thread itself is proving.


In the airline industry, VFR as visiting friends and relatives is probably actually used more than visual flight rules since there is far more discussion over market forces, routes and traffic levels than there is over actual clear-day operating conditions. Most discussion on the forums would only really touch the IFR side of the house, not VFR.
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hivue
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Re: What is VFR?

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:35 pm

alasizon wrote:
In the airline industry, VFR as visiting friends and relatives is probably actually used more than visual flight rules since there is far more discussion over market forces, routes and traffic levels than there is over actual clear-day operating conditions.


How many airline operations are done Visual Flight Rules? I can see why use of "VFR" more often than not has the alternate meaning for the airlines.
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btbx11
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Re: What is VFR?

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:52 pm

spacecadet wrote:
Never personally heard "VFR" used to mean "Visiting Friends and Relatives". I would think that would be at best extremely confusing in an aviation forum, because VFR has, and has always had, a pretty specific meaning in aviation. I would suggest not using a non-aviation context for it in an aviation forum if you want to be clear, as this thread itself is proving.


VFR as in "Visiting Friends and Relatives" is very much an aviation industry term. There's a whole lot more to the aviation industry than sitting in a cockpit piloting a plane - as important as that one bit is.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: What is VFR?

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:54 pm

hivue wrote:
alasizon wrote:
In the airline industry, VFR as visiting friends and relatives is probably actually used more than visual flight rules since there is far more discussion over market forces, routes and traffic levels than there is over actual clear-day operating conditions.


How many airline operations are done Visual Flight Rules? I can see why use of "VFR" more often than not has the alternate meaning for the airlines.


Unfortunately pilots don’t use VFR properly it means visual flight rules. Major airlines don’t use VFR. However many pilots look outside and it’s beautiful so they say it’s VFR.

What they SHOULD say is it’s VMC , Visual Meteorlogical conditions.

Anyways rant over......
 
alan3
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:59 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:

But leisure and VFR are two different things, so when they're talking about VFR they aren't talking about leisure travelers.

Leisure is holiday traffic, visiting places for sightseeing, relaxing, adventure or anything of that kind. But leisure travelers aren't tied to that place because they know anybody there, mostly they don't. They go there because there's something else that attracts them to that place.

And that's the difference with VFR, which is going to a certain place because you have family or friends there you want to visit.


But from an airline business point of view what's the difference between VFR and leisure? Isn't the main differentiation to them whether or not it's a high yield business route vs a low yield leisure route?

Why not give it just one term, or is there a difference to the airline whether or not people are going to lie in the sand vs. going to visit grandma?
 
alasizon
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:08 pm

alan3 wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:

But leisure and VFR are two different things, so when they're talking about VFR they aren't talking about leisure travelers.

Leisure is holiday traffic, visiting places for sightseeing, relaxing, adventure or anything of that kind. But leisure travelers aren't tied to that place because they know anybody there, mostly they don't. They go there because there's something else that attracts them to that place.

And that's the difference with VFR, which is going to a certain place because you have family or friends there you want to visit.


But from an airline business point of view what's the difference between VFR and leisure? Isn't the main differentiation to them whether or not it's a high yield business route vs a low yield leisure route?

Is there a difference to the airline whether or not people are going to lie in the sand vs. going to visit grandma?


There is a big difference between VFR and leisure when it comes to the viability of the route and what happens in the event of a minor economic downturn.

For example, DFW-RNO is far more about leisure travellers visiting Lake Tahoe and Reno while DFW-GDL is more VFR based as more people are going back to visit family and friends. As disposable income goes down, DFW-RNO is going to drop faster than DFW-GDL. The leisure crowd can choose to vacation in state via car but the VFR crowd can't choose to go elsewhere since their friends and relatives aren't there.
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PatrickZ80
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:19 pm

alan3 wrote:
Why not give it just one term, or is there a difference to the airline whether or not people are going to lie in the sand vs. going to visit grandma?


The difference is that leisure destinations are interchangeable while VFR destinations aren't. Also (and this is more common in Europe than in America), leisure passengers often have their flight booked as part of a package holiday. Flight and accommodation offered by a tour organization and sold as a complete package. Airlines that fly leisure routes therefor got to have good connections to tour organizations who buy tickets in bulk quantity. If for whatever reason the originally booked destination is no longer available, tour organizations can offer to rebook their passengers on similar destinations. Most people accept this offer, after all what does it matter if you lay in the sand at one place or another?

All of this does not apply for VFR traffic, like you said visiting grandma. VFR passengers don't book their flights as package holidays through a tour organization, they don't need an accommodation at the destination. They just need a flight ticket. Also, VFR destinations are not interchangeable. Grandma lives in a certain place and they want to go to that place and not somewhere else.

For example, here in the Netherlands there are a lot of people from Suriname. Most of them still got family there, which is the reason flights between Amsterdam and Paramaribo exist. Right next to Suriname is French Guyana, however as much demand there is between the Netherlands and Suriname, the demand between the Netherlands and French Guyana is nearly zero. If it were leisure traffic, that wouldn't be the case as Suriname and French Guyana are very similar countries. But it's not leisure, it's VFR. Those people have family in Suriname, not in French Guyana.

On the other hand, from the Netherlands a popular beach holiday destination is the Canary Islands. Let's say a family books a holiday to Gran Canaria. Then something happens in Gran Canaria, maybe the hotel is overbooked or whatever, and they can't go there anymore. However right next to Gran Canaria is Tenerife and they can go there. Do you think this family will care? Not really, both are equally good for going on holiday. If Gran Canaria doesn't work and Tenerife does, then Tenerife it is.
 
MR27122
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:33 pm

Noshow wrote:
VFR means the pilot is responsible to look outside and separate his aircraft from other traffic and the terrain. When flying IFR he needs a different license and a specific equipment on board he is assisted by permanent air traffic control surveillance. (but finally he is still responsible). VFR can be done at night and above the clouds but not in the clouds. IFR can be done at daytime in bright sunshine. All bigger aircraft typically fly IFR all the time.


An exception exists, namely "VFR Flight Following". I hold a VFR PPL (Mboyle1988: "Private-Pilot's-License") & fly out of KBED (Hanscom Field MA). KBED's controlled "airspace" (the radius surrounding the airport) is Class "C" airspace. It's also within KBOS (Logan) Class "B" airspace radius. No matter if I file or don't file a "flight plan" with FSS (Flight Services Station), & am flying to KACK (Nantucket)...I depart w/ 1200 in the "box" (transponder code for all aircraft not under the control of ATC/"squawk"). After KBED tower provides it's last directive to me, I tune into Boston Approach & tell them my current location, altitude, heading, & destination & request "VFR Flight Following". ATC provides "VFR Flight Following" as a courtesy & only if they're not too busy....however, I've yet to be denied it. ATC then asks me to "Squawk 1234 and indent". I tune the transponder to "1234" & hit ident. ATC responds "Piper 123 Radar Contact at three thousand feet six miles south of Hanscom". Thereafter, ATC will alert me to all possible conflicting traffic, & sometimes request that I climb or descend. By alerting me to other traffic, ATC has "done its job" in terms of "VFR Flight Following"----my job is to make visual contact w/ the traffic. ATC will "hand off" to the next controller when I reach the boundary of the airspace they're controlling. Often the next controller will give me a new squawk code. In very basic terms, VFR Flight Following for a VFR PPL is akin to an additional "set of eyes" for other traffic, but it's always my responsibility to make visual contact & continue to scan.

One other responsibility of a VFR pilot is to contact a tower or controller when Transitioning through specific controlled airspace @ a certain altitude. This means that a VFR aircraft that is in KBOS airspace, but below a certain altitude "shelf", doesn't have to be in contact with any ATC. BUT, if the flight-path will encroach upon KBED controlled airspace, the pilot must get the KBED ATIS, tune to the KBED tower freq, identify themselves-altitude-present location & request to transition through the airspace. In 14 years the only "incident" I've experienced was when a VFR plane failed to request clearance to transition KBED airspace & after KBED tower gave me the directive to make a climbing right turn to the northeast after takeoff---the VFR plane transitioning, but not in contact, and I came into "conflict".

That's a very simplistic "overview" of some VFR "services" & "rules re: pilot responsibility & ATC when flying within controlled airspace. Of course, a pilot must also possess up-to-date Sectionals, Notams, & TFR's (Temporary Flight Restrictions....such as if certain airspace is closed due to VIP aircraft, or it's a Saturday & sky-diving/parachuting is "blocked off" in a specific area).
I don't know any ATC Controllers....is VFR Flight Following considered a "burden" (more planes to control) or an "aide" (being in comm with VFR planes & basically knowing their intentions? 
 
Dieuwer
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Re: What is VFR?

Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:26 pm

Any reason why VFR traffic is often equated with Caribbean traffic? Isn't that an old fashioned notion? Because if I look at my job, all of my colleagues travel to either India or Europe to see family and friends.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: VFR

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:12 pm

Noshow wrote:
VFR means the pilot is responsible to look outside and separate his aircraft from other traffic and the terrain. When flying IFR he needs a different license and a specific equipment on board he is assisted by permanent air traffic control surveillance. (but finally he is still responsible). VFR can be done at night and above the clouds but not in the clouds. IFR can be done at daytime in bright sunshine. All bigger aircraft typically fly IFR all the time.


Flying IFR does not require a different license. The license is the same but the pilot requires an Instrument Rating.

hivue wrote:
alasizon wrote:
In the airline industry, VFR as visiting friends and relatives is probably actually used more than visual flight rules since there is far more discussion over market forces, routes and traffic levels than there is over actual clear-day operating conditions.


How many airline operations are done Visual Flight Rules? I can see why use of "VFR" more often than not has the alternate meaning for the airlines.


The vast majority of mainline and regional airlines only ever fly IFR. Only airlines running bush operations and the like would routinely use VFR.

CriticalPoint wrote:
hivue wrote:
alasizon wrote:
In the airline industry, VFR as visiting friends and relatives is probably actually used more than visual flight rules since there is far more discussion over market forces, routes and traffic levels than there is over actual clear-day operating conditions.


How many airline operations are done Visual Flight Rules? I can see why use of "VFR" more often than not has the alternate meaning for the airlines.


Unfortunately pilots don’t use VFR properly it means visual flight rules. Major airlines don’t use VFR. However many pilots look outside and it’s beautiful so they say it’s VFR.

What they SHOULD say is it’s VMC , Visual Meteorlogical conditions.

Anyways rant over......


+1 on that. VFR/IFR are not the same as VMC/IMC.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
alasizon
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Re: What is VFR?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:26 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Any reason why VFR traffic is often equated with Caribbean traffic? Isn't that an old fashioned notion? Because if I look at my job, all of my colleagues travel to either India or Europe to see family and friends.


It isn't an old fashioned notion, rather it is true that a lot of VFR traffic from the US does go to the Caribbean, particularly from the east coast. As you get into more tech based cities, you see the travel going back to East Asia and India. States that border Mexico obviously tend to have a higher share of VFR traffic going back to Mexico than those states that do not. VFR traffic is really about cultural and family ties.
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RetiredWeasel
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Re: What is VFR?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:39 am

Jumping to another cabin vs cockpit confusing term (at least to me) is the use of 'IFE'. Always meant Inflight Emergency to me, until I started browsing the Civil Forum. There it means Inflight Entertainment .

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