VHOGU
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Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:55 pm

At my airline when serving hot drinks to the flight crew, to avoid spills and burns we must use takeaway style cardboard coffee cups, double cupped and with a hot cup lid. Now I know why!
 
Armodeen
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Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:09 pm

Congratulations airbuster, you managed to inject romanticism into a post about spilled coffee and diverting to Shannon.

Great post!

airbuster wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Amiga500 wrote:

... and rightly so. We don't want to encourage you yankees too much. ;)


Dunno if Boeing have a good cupholder or not either - if so they probably have a buzzword acronym for it - if not - have they learned nothing from that stupid judge awarding compo to that stupid clown that spilled the McDonalds coffee over themselves in the car somewhere in the States?

I love coffee. Dang my doctor for limiting me to 2 cups a day (I used to drink two 10 cup pots)! But I have an exceptional and always rotating collection of lidded mugs. People who cannot handle the deliciously hot beverage do not deserve it and should be denied the nectar of the gods.

Lightsaber


I fly an A330 and I have a love for coffee that is equal to my love for aviation. I bring my own specialty coffee beans, grinder and French press coffee pot on my trips. It takes me as much time to make a fresh coffee as it does going to the lavatory. The business class mug is porcelain and fits well in the holder. And once settled with à beautiful coffee in your hands, oceanic clearance received and into the setting sun life is good!

Enjoy!
 
Pyrex
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Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:10 pm

The solution for this problem is obvious: spend $1,300 a pop on some over-engineered coffee cups. It's almost as if Condor doesn't have an unlimited budget... What gives?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/29/politics ... index.html
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DocLightning
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Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:27 pm

Amiga500 wrote:

Dunno if Boeing have a good cupholder or not either - if so they probably have a buzzword acronym for it


https://youtu.be/0oyWZjdXxlw?t=2650

They do.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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RickNRoll
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Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:34 pm

Revelation wrote:
aumaverick wrote:
Pilot ratings - $80,000
Airbus A330 - $265,000,000
Starbucks Venti Pumpkin Spice Late - $5.25
Cost of diverting a commercial flight due to pilot incompetence for not using a lid - Priceless

My vote in the court of public opinion goes to convict Condor for using cheap ass tiny coffee cups that one must pry out of the cup holder, and for not providing lids.

Amiga500 wrote:
Would it not be beyond the wit of Airbus to incorporate a flexible size cup holder that can be racheted to suit the actual cup size?

Indeed, given the risk of spillage of hot liquid in the cockpit at an inopportune time* - its surprising that pilots are allowed to have them merely resting on the table in the cockpit anyway.

*i.e. all over the pilots lap when ATC request course/elevation change for avoidance and the other pilot is out of the cockpit on a pee break.

If I had written this, I would be tagged for hating on Team A.

I presume Airbus did count on the cup holder being used, and did not count on the airline serving hot coffee in tiny cups with no lids.

They may have to issue cup holder inserts to adapt to the cups being used by the various airlines.
The manufactures of laptop computers realised they had to fix the spilled liquids problem years ago. Keyboards on quality laptops are liquid proof and have drain holes. It would be a more complex and expensive task on a passenger jet but worth it. Even if your coffee cup has a lid sooner or later someone is going to spill something.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:14 am

DocLightning wrote:
https://youtu.be/0oyWZjdXxlw?t=2650
They do.


Thank you for the link - yer man has the full series of "Building the 777" on his page - when I've downtime I might stick them on.
 
WIederling
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Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:31 am

Amiga500 wrote:
Would it not be beyond the wit of Airbus to incorporate a flexible size cup holder that can be racheted to suit the actual cup size?


Everything has its prize.

You can buy right sized (and branded) mugs in the Airbus Shop annex to the delivery center :-)))))))).
If your Airline is too cheap to spend the extra Euro ....
Murphy is an optimist
 
JayBCN
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Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:56 am

DocLightning wrote:
From what I can see, the A330 cup holder is a slightly tapered tube sticking out of a vertical surface and it seems to be placed in an unergonomic place. By contrast, the 777 cup holder is a sophisticated design that can hold a regular paper coffee cup, a coffee cup with a handle, or a soda can all with good fit and ease, although it is awkwardly located pretty far aft on the side console. It would seem to me that Airbus definitely has some room for improvement in this department, since forbidding pilots from drinking any beverage while in the cockpit is not a reasonable solution.


Don’t turn this into an A vs B discussion ;)
 
LiasLia
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Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:57 am

Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:06 am

But the large plane landed safely with 346 passengers. That was serious mistake from the pilots but plane can be flown manually. In fact systems on big planes have crashed many planes.
 
beechnut
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Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:44 pm

Reminds me of an urban legend from back in the days of navigators. I think it was BOAC. A flight was plodding along, some old prop liner, and the captain had a nasty habit of reaching back and putting his coffee cup down on the navigator's table, right on his map. The nav was getting fed up. So midway through the flight, he called for a 45 degree turn to the left. The captain complied without question. Then after a minute or so, he asked for a 90 degree turn to the right. The captain, an arrogant old greybeard, asked "what the hell is going on???". The nav replied "sorry captain, we had to divert around your coffee cup".

I would have loved to be the fly on the wall in that cockpit...

Beech
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:59 pm

tech specs, res coffee:
Generally for drip and other systems, coffee should be brewed with water about 200 degrees F
It will cool a bit in the receiving pot to about 180
For best taste in needs to cool another 20 degrees to 160, although some like it hotter

It is interesting to set of an array of cups running from room temperature to 180 degrees. The flavor profile is startlingly different
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
NozPerry
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Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:01 pm

At my current airline we double cup and use lids when we have them, the latter being they load approximately 10 lids in the dry stores, which flight deck burn through quickly leaving none for the flight back. No matter how many times you ask them to keep the lid before they throw the cup in the bag.

The fear of spilling a drink on the centre console while passing drinks is definitely high but I imagine most airlines also have specific procedures in how to pass drinks to flight deck I.e. to the outside where the cup holders normally are.
I love the feel of a Go Around in the morning
 
N505fx
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Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:26 pm

DocLightning wrote:
From what I can see, the A330 cup holder is a slightly tapered tube sticking out of a vertical surface and it seems to be placed in an unergonomic place. By contrast, the 777 cup holder is a sophisticated design that can hold a regular paper coffee cup, a coffee cup with a handle, or a soda can all with good fit and ease, although it is awkwardly located pretty far aft on the side console. It would seem to me that Airbus definitely has some room for improvement in this department, since forbidding pilots from drinking any beverage while in the cockpit is not a reasonable solution.


Just an observation from a 20 year veteran of the automotive industry, not racially motivated, but European's have far lagged the U.S. on cup holder design...they are usually either useless or overly complicated to the point of uselessness, consuming food/beverage while operating a vehicle just wasn't (isn't) a thing for them.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:40 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
zeke wrote:
NZ had a significant fire on a 737 due to coffee being spilt on the centre console.

This has always been a possibility for MH370 also for me

If I'm understanding your post correctly, you think that a possible spilled drink would cause a 777 to mysteriously turn 150 degrees, knock out any and all communications and ATC transponder capabilities, and probably continue to fly for 7-8 hours before flaming out?


This Condor flight did a 180 to go back to Shannon after spilling the coffee... and the liquid affected communication...

Add in progressive degradation of many other cockpit systems, a failed attempt to turn to land and depressurization / smoke inhilation and the result could be similar.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
cumulushumilis
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Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:00 pm

As usual because it’s Airliners.net, everyone is overthinking this problem. There already exists an elegant low cost engineered solution that has been through comprehensive testing. Although it’s pilots so they might struggle with this. I have attached the link.

https://images.app.goo.gl/w3RHb9MKuPBQYYu98
 
Lukas757
Posts: 23
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Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:06 pm

N505fx wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
From what I can see, the A330 cup holder is a slightly tapered tube sticking out of a vertical surface and it seems to be placed in an unergonomic place. By contrast, the 777 cup holder is a sophisticated design that can hold a regular paper coffee cup, a coffee cup with a handle, or a soda can all with good fit and ease, although it is awkwardly located pretty far aft on the side console. It would seem to me that Airbus definitely has some room for improvement in this department, since forbidding pilots from drinking any beverage while in the cockpit is not a reasonable solution.


Just an observation from a 20 year veteran of the automotive industry, not racially motivated, but European's have far lagged the U.S. on cup holder design...they are usually either useless or overly complicated to the point of uselessness, consuming food/beverage while operating a vehicle just wasn't (isn't) a thing for them.


Should be true. Until recently even cars from luxury brands like BMW or Mercedes were not available with cup holders from factory (at least not in the first row). The proper German businessman has a beak at the gas station for his coffee.
 
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CFM565A1
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Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:42 pm

cumulushumilis wrote:
As usual because it’s Airliners.net, everyone is overthinking this problem. There already exists an elegant low cost engineered solution that has been through comprehensive testing. Although it’s pilots so they might struggle with this. I have attached the link.

https://images.app.goo.gl/w3RHb9MKuPBQYYu98

Exactly :lol: :rotfl:

In all seriousness it’s the non-pilots on here who overthink the solutions. Too many people who don’t do the job who think they’re armchair experts because they work in the field of x or y.

The A330’s cup holders like every other cockpit are over by the side windows. How about the pilots keep the drinks over there rather than near the radio stack or CDU? Even FAs are trained to pass drinks a certain to the window seat to avoid spilling on the middle/aisle seat tray table if there’s a passenger’s device on it...

A little care goes a long way
Flown: C172-M/N/P/R/S , P2006T, PA-34-200T, DH8A/C Been on: B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Coffee Spill Forced A330 Diversion

Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:10 pm

CFM565A1 wrote:
How about the pilots keep the drinks over there rather than near the radio stack or CDU? Even FAs are trained to pass drinks a certain to the window seat to avoid spilling on the middle/aisle seat tray table if there’s a passenger’s device on it...

A little care goes a long way

Are you suggesting that first world air crew need better training? :stirthepot:
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