Max Q
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Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:47 am

Looking at the pictures of these last American aircraft with their stunning beautiful livery I’m wondering if there will be any takers in the used market for what I assume are well maintained airframes
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Andy33
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:16 am

You could assume that the planes are well maintained. You could also assume that AA has run many of the components close to the number of hours or cycles where they need to be replaced or stripped and rebuilt. Any sensible airline knowing they are removing a long-out-of-production type from their fleet, for which spares are no longer being made, would do the same.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:35 am

Andy33 wrote:
You could assume that the planes are well maintained. You could also assume that AA has run many of the components close to the number of hours or cycles where they need to be replaced or stripped and rebuilt. Any sensible airline knowing they are removing a long-out-of-production type from their fleet, for which spares are no longer being made, would do the same.


:checkmark: Look at all of the problems Allegiant had with their MD-80s. Why on earth would anyone else take the inherent risk of operating such old aircraft - no matter how cheap they may now be!
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bennett123
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:53 am

I think that it’s unlikely that a major carrier will do so.

A small carrier could do, although probably not in the USA/Europe.

If you are thinking South America/Africa/Asia perhaps.

There is always the cargo option.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:58 am

bennett123 wrote:
I think that it’s unlikely that a major carrier will do so.

A small carrier could do, although probably not in the USA/Europe.

If you are thinking South America/Africa/Asia perhaps.

There is always the cargo option.


Why would anyone want to use them for cargo? First they would need to be converted to freighters while undergoing a D check. If you're going to put that much effort into it, why not start with a 737NG? There have been over 7,000 NG's built. This is over an order of magnitude more built than the number of MD-8O series. The MD-8O series is of the samei era as the 737-300 and the other first generation CFM engined 737's, so it is a generation older than the NG. There are lots of 737NG rated pilots all over the world. There are lots of spare parts still being produced. An MD-80 based freighter would be an orphan. As soon as the 737MAX is recertified, there will be plenty of 737NG's starting to be retired to create feedstock for freighter conversions.
 
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SQ789
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:55 am

Most of AA MD-80's already ended up with other airlines before.
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mikegigs
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:31 am

The only major airline that I can think of who has a history of picking up a lot of second-hand T-tails is DL and since they're retiring their MD-88's and then MD-90's, I think it's highly unlikely that they would want any AA MD-80's. I really can't see anyone else picking them up either. As per what other's said, these aircraft have been run into the ground (or close to that) and would need major repairs/overhauls of a lot of systems. I think it's time these birds had a nice long rest.

It is a shame though... there are less and less non-RJ T-tails every day.
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danipawa
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:56 am

World Atlantic keep adding AA MD80, some Venezuelan and African carriers too..
 
wave46
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:11 pm

Aside from a few niche operators, I don't see much of a future for these aircraft.

As the aircraft is progressively retired, manufacturers of the spares that kept this aircraft flying have exited the business. That makes spares expensive as they're effectively custom-built pieces. Sure, you can source some of the parts from scrapped aircraft, but that's a finite supply and you then have to deal with used parts with questionable service life remaining.

The JT8D supplier network has effectively stopped since American decided they were retiring the MD-80.
 
chrisjake
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:14 pm

Wouldn't surprise me if Aeronaves TSM grabbed some. They seem to have gravitated to the CRJ and MD80 lately.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:20 pm

Haven’t a few AA Mad Dogs also gone to Ukraine?
 
HIA350
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:26 pm

PAWA lol
 
steeler83
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:34 pm

wave46 wrote:
Aside from a few niche operators, I don't see much of a future for these aircraft.

As the aircraft is progressively retired, manufacturers of the spares that kept this aircraft flying have exited the business. That makes spares expensive as they're effectively custom-built pieces. Sure, you can source some of the parts from scrapped aircraft, but that's a finite supply and you then have to deal with used parts with questionable service life remaining.

The JT8D supplier network has effectively stopped since American decided they were retiring the MD-80.


That's a shame. This is by far my favorite engine. It gets my "Avie" award for best sound! :)

Is Allegiant getting rid of their MD80s? I flew on one coming back from Orlando back in 2015 - it's my only experience on an MD80. Not a bad bird at all!!
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Polot
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:38 pm

steeler83 wrote:
wave46 wrote:
Aside from a few niche operators, I don't see much of a future for these aircraft.

As the aircraft is progressively retired, manufacturers of the spares that kept this aircraft flying have exited the business. That makes spares expensive as they're effectively custom-built pieces. Sure, you can source some of the parts from scrapped aircraft, but that's a finite supply and you then have to deal with used parts with questionable service life remaining.

The JT8D supplier network has effectively stopped since American decided they were retiring the MD-80.


That's a shame. This is by far my favorite engine. It gets my "Avie" award for best sound! :)

Is Allegiant getting rid of their MD80s? I flew on one coming back from Orlando back in 2015 - it's my only experience on an MD80. Not a bad bird at all!!

Allegiant stopped flying the MD-80 almost a year ago (November 2018).
 
WeatherPilot
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:40 pm

Contractors operating ICE flights might pick a few up.
 
JFKCMILAXFLL
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:42 pm

steeler83 wrote:
wave46 wrote:
Aside from a few niche operators, I don't see much of a future for these aircraft.

As the aircraft is progressively retired, manufacturers of the spares that kept this aircraft flying have exited the business. That makes spares expensive as they're effectively custom-built pieces. Sure, you can source some of the parts from scrapped aircraft, but that's a finite supply and you then have to deal with used parts with questionable service life remaining.

The JT8D supplier network has effectively stopped since American decided they were retiring the MD-80.


That's a shame. This is by far my favorite engine. It gets my "Avie" award for best sound! :)

Is Allegiant getting rid of their MD80s? I flew on one coming back from Orlando back in 2015 - it's my only experience on an MD80. Not a bad bird at all!!


I haven't seen any in awhile coming to FLL, only Airbuses. At least I have a diecast 1:400 of an Allegiant MD-80 :) (I also have an A-320 and a 757) :biggrin:
 
MO11
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:00 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Haven’t a few AA Mad Dogs also gone to Ukraine?


That was an intermediate stop to Iran. And that's what it will be, maybe along with Africa.
 
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Veigar
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:02 pm

While they are very young for MD-80 standards (N984TW being the most prominent example), it is unlikely. Maybe Delta would take ownership specifically to support their in-service fleet, but again, also doubtful.
 
Dalmd88
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:17 pm

DL already bought a bunch of engines and I think gear sets from the AA fleet. for the last two years of the DL JT8 shop we pretty much only stripped down engines we bought from AA. We harvested the internals that had life left on them and built new motors with those internals. I'm sure some of the MRO's like Aero Thrust have been doing the same. Right now we do a lot of power by the hour from Aero Thrust to get DL through the end of life of the MD88.

Like others have said I would only expect full airframes to be taken up by African carriers, or possibly small South American carriers. Definitely not cargo. There have been very few MD80 variant converted to cargo. The small cabin cross section doesn't work well with standard pallets and containers.
 
DarthLobster
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:25 pm

Probably Budweiser
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:29 pm

DarthLobster wrote:
Probably Budweiser



I clicked on this topic to say the same thing...... :lol:
 
bennett123
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:19 pm

Another possibility is that existing operators could buy some, either as replacements or for spares.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:04 pm

I find it facinating DL is paying power by the hour for engines to sustain the fleet of their MD-80s. The AA engines/gear/other rare parts will be salvaged. I doubt more than a handful might be put into temporary service. This tells me scavanged parts are already becoming difficult to procure at economic pricing.

This means when DL retires the fleet, there won't be many golden engines/gear/rare parts for other airlines to recover.

UpNAWAy wrote:
DarthLobster wrote:
Probably Budweiser



I clicked on this topic to say the same thing...... :lol:

:rotfl:

Future life is a single cycle application.

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727LOVER
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:39 pm

What about the cargo version? This one is ex-AA

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flybaby
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:48 pm

The D-Checks on those birds will probably cost more than they’re worth.
 
ozark1
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:54 pm

Have any of them been donated to schools or museums? Do fire departments purchase aircraft for training purposes?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:58 pm

I'm afraid they'll all just slowly be chopped up at Roswell.

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Dalmd88
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:36 am

lightsaber wrote:
I find it facinating DL is paying power by the hour for engines to sustain the fleet of their MD-80s. The AA engines/gear/other rare parts will be salvaged. I doubt more than a handful might be put into temporary service. This tells me scavanged parts are already becoming difficult to procure at economic pricing.

This means when DL retires the fleet, there won't be many golden engines/gear/rare parts for other airlines to recover.

UpNAWAy wrote:
DarthLobster wrote:
Probably Budweiser



I clicked on this topic to say the same thing...... :lol:

:rotfl:

Future life is a single cycle application.

Lightsaber

It is very normal for end of life fleets. I bet AA was doing power by the hour for the last year or so of their Mad Dogs. Same thing happened during the 727 pull down. Right now JT8 overhaul costs are about $1M. I think you get about four years out of an overhaul under normal operation. There is no value to keep overhauling engines to keep your required spares available. We are one year away from crushing these planes. They pretty much have no future market for resale. Why spend the money when you have no hope of using the engine for it's full expected life?
 
B764er
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:58 am

Sorry but these smell like beer cans to me. : (
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:00 am

Hopefully, at least one will end up in a museum.
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:44 am

Some cargo airlines still fly DC-9s!

Everts air cargo already has two MD-80s in their fleet. You can find info on that in this thread: viewtopic.php?t=1389987

I could also see some charter airlines taking them in, such as Ameristar (maybe even an operator of Con Air will purchase one...)

Additionally, they could make good private jets (take a look at this one: https://www.controller.com/listings/air ... glas-md-87)

Finally, though, I will agree that only ten or so won’t be made into a can.
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Phosphorus
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:33 am

Gulfstream500 wrote:
....

Everts air cargo already has two MD-80s in their fleet. ...


More like five, actually:
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Eve ... e-md80.htm
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TWA902fly
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:39 am

Phosphorus wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
....

Everts air cargo already has two MD-80s in their fleet. ...


More like five, actually:
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Eve ... e-md80.htm


Everts has also bought several ex-AA MD-80s as spare parts aircraft.

‘902
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Phosphorus
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:08 am

TWA902fly wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
....

Everts air cargo already has two MD-80s in their fleet. ...


More like five, actually:
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Eve ... e-md80.htm


Everts has also bought several ex-AA MD-80s as spare parts aircraft.

‘902


Plus, there were news that Everts bought an MD-80 simulator for installation, and another one -- as spare parts source.
Indeed, looks like Everts has long-term plans for MD-80. And as they are still operating DC-6's in some quantity, one can only guess, exactly how long-term those plans are.
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KFLLCFII
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:08 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
:checkmark: Look at all of the problems Allegiant had with their MD-80s.


I don't believe the aircraft were the problem.
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:54 am

A few lower-cycle frames might find a second career, but the rest are going under the axe. Is AA donating any of their MDs to MX schools for training? I know FX did so with a number of 727s and I suspect many of those may still be being used as teaching frames, so perhaps there isn't a need.
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spinkid
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:16 am

WeatherPilot wrote:
Contractors operating ICE flights might pick a few up.


That would be World Atlantic Airlines. I didn't realize they were up to 8 or 9 of this type now based out of Florida.

btw, that sounds like a the name of an airline that would only appear on television. Their livery looks about right also. I bet they employ more than a few retired crew from the majors who enjoy flying still while collecting a pension.
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:32 am

They are donating at least one if not two and one is staying in DFW for deicing training
 
mrbots
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:56 pm

These birds went to Roswell, NM. That's not a place planes go to get a second life but to get parted out and scrapped.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:08 pm

mrbots wrote:
These birds went to Roswell, NM. That's not a place planes go to get a second life but to get parted out and scrapped.


Plenty of planes get a second life from ROW. That's where CAM's 767-223F fleet was sourced from that fly amazon packages every day. That's where Icelandair got several 757s from. Many other 757s got the freighter treatment from there, as well as a few MD-80s for several cargo operators. Just because they go to ROW doesn't mean it's the end.
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Northwest1988
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:09 pm

There is the one at the museum in Tulsa already. At least that’s one AA MD-80 that can still be gawked at in person!
 
drdisque
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:31 pm

I imagine some of the newer builds will possibly be converted into freighters. The MD80F is really a better replacement for the 727F than the 737-300F.

Also, this is the only source left of "fresh" MD-82/83's (Delta's MD-88's will be undesirable because of their nonstandard cockpits), as the Spanair and SAS planes are long gone and the Meridiana planes are probably mostly gone as well. Most airlines likely have little interest in picking up Allegiant's scraps.
 
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N62NA
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:53 pm

A friend posted a picture on Facebook a few days ago of an AA MD-80 getting converted for cargo at one of the overhaul shops at MIA. So at least ONE is being converted.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:30 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I find it facinating DL is paying power by the hour for engines to sustain the fleet of their MD-80s. The AA engines/gear/other rare parts will be salvaged. I doubt more than a handful might be put into temporary service. This tells me scavanged parts are already becoming difficult to procure at economic pricing.

This means when DL retires the fleet, there won't be many golden engines/gear/rare parts for other airlines to recover.

UpNAWAy wrote:
DarthLobster wrote:
Probably Budweiser



I clicked on this topic to say the same thing...... :lol:

:rotfl:

Future life is a single cycle application.

Lightsaber


Are they not also missing one of the new required devices? Someone mentioned they had a set date due to a version of ADS-B or something a while back
 
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litz
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:00 pm

wave46 wrote:
Aside from a few niche operators, I don't see much of a future for these aircraft.

As the aircraft is progressively retired, manufacturers of the spares that kept this aircraft flying have exited the business. That makes spares expensive as they're effectively custom-built pieces. Sure, you can source some of the parts from scrapped aircraft, but that's a finite supply and you then have to deal with used parts with questionable service life remaining.

The JT8D supplier network has effectively stopped since American decided they were retiring the MD-80.


Eventually that's gonna be the nail in the coffin for the 732s that fly gravel strip missions in Canada, too
 
DeltaMD95
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:47 pm

drdisque wrote:
I imagine some of the newer builds will possibly be converted into freighters. The MD80F is really a better replacement for the 727F than the 737-300F.

Also, this is the only source left of "fresh" MD-82/83's (Delta's MD-88's will be undesirable because of their nonstandard cockpits),.


Actually, the recently retired AA MD83s share the same EFIS flightdeck as the DL MD88s. At some point in the ‘90s, McDonnell Douglas delivered all aircraft with the MD88 standard fligthdeck regardless of variant.
Did you know that a Boeing 717-200 is really a McDonnell Douglas MD95-30? ;-)
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:24 am

drdisque wrote:
I imagine some of the newer builds will possibly be converted into freighters. The MD80F is really a better replacement for the 727F than the 737-300F.

Also, this is the only source left of "fresh" MD-82/83's (Delta's MD-88's will be undesirable because of their nonstandard cockpits), as the Spanair and SAS planes are long gone and the Meridiana planes are probably mostly gone as well. Most airlines likely have little interest in picking up Allegiant's scraps.

Ever since the engine parts supply chain was shut down in 2014 interest in conversions dropped away. AA and DL has enough parts and Allegiant didn't have the utilization to justify supporting the supply chain. The reality is AA and DL jointly supported the supply chain. When they both took a multi year breather, Boeing and Pratt had no choice but to cancel contracts with vendors (minimum buys of spares).

So even fresh planes are doomed.

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WN732
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:41 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
You could assume that the planes are well maintained. You could also assume that AA has run many of the components close to the number of hours or cycles where they need to be replaced or stripped and rebuilt. Any sensible airline knowing they are removing a long-out-of-production type from their fleet, for which spares are no longer being made, would do the same.


:checkmark: Look at all of the problems Allegiant had with their MD-80s. Why on earth would anyone else take the inherent risk of operating such old aircraft - no matter how cheap they may now be!


To be fair, about half of those issues weren't the MD-80's fault. The Airbus' will eventually end up the same way.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:42 am

Even if the newest MD80s don’t find new homes, at least a good chunk of slightly older birds did get the conversion treatment. If freighters, they’ll be around much longer and the age difference would become negligible.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: Will anyone pick up AA’s retired MD80’s ?

Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:48 am

727LOVER wrote:
What about the cargo version? This one is ex-AA


why did they paint over the polished aluminum?

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Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos