jmc1975
Topic Author
Posts: 3009
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

Can existing 737MAX airframes be deMAXed?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:27 am

Let's assume for a moment that we see a scenario where the 737MAX is not re-certified for airworthiness and is determined to have an inherent design flaw. What would then become of the 200+ existing 737MAX airframes around the world? Would it be financially viable to convert MAX airframes back to 737NGs? Since the 737NG has been a reliable workhorse for 2 decades, Boeing could continue to build 737NGs for its customers, putting its MAX problems behind it, all while investing in R&D for a clean-sheet 737/757 replacement.
.......
 
User avatar
flyingclrs727
Posts: 2416
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

Re: Can existing 737MAX airframes be deMAXed?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:29 am

No!
 
jmc1975
Topic Author
Posts: 3009
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

Re: Can existing 737MAX airframes be deMAXed?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:33 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
No!

Fascinating insight. Would all of the airframes have to be scrapped?
.......
 
SanDiegoLover
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:24 am

Re: Can existing 737MAX airframes be deMAXed?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:34 am

No. Boeing will get the 737Max flying one way or the other, period. Why? Because it has to. There is no other way forward, in any real world scenario otherwise. I said the same thing to doubters when the A380 was having massive problems, and again when the 787 was having its well documented fiasco going on.
 
Andy33
Posts: 2473
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Can existing 737MAX airframes be deMAXed?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:40 am

I suppose you could remove the wings, fit 737NG wings instead with 737NG engine mountings and engines, and then you've got a slightly updated 737NG. But the cost of doing it would be astronomical, it might well be cheaper to build a new plane and use as many parts as can be recovered from MAXs that have not flown in service at all or flown minimal hours. I can't see either happening.
 
User avatar
hic787
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:29 pm

Re: Can existing 737MAX airframes be deMAXed?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:42 am

The NG and the Max have heaps of subtle differences - so de-maxxing would just not be viable or possible really. In the minuscule chance they never fly again, they'll be scrapped.
 
User avatar
flyingclrs727
Posts: 2416
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

Re: Can existing 737MAX airframes be deMAXed?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:44 am

jmc1975 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
No!

Fascinating insight. Would all of the airframes have to be scrapped?


Well the whole point of the MAX was the new engines. The size of the engines necessitated the MCAS system. Replacing the engines would require recertifying it with different engines that would be less efficient. The real question is how soon will the world's aviation regulatory agencies recertify the MAX so it can start flying again. It will be fixed.
 
questions
Posts: 2021
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: Can existing 737MAX airframes be deMAXed?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:26 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
No!

Fascinating insight. Would all of the airframes have to be scrapped?


Well the whole point of the MAX was the new engines. The size of the engines necessitated the MCAS system. Replacing the engines would require recertifying it with different engines that would be less efficient. The real question is how soon will the world's aviation regulatory agencies recertify the MAX so it can start flying again. It will be fixed.


Pet peeve. :roll:
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21549
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: Can existing 737MAX airframes be deMAXed?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:36 am

Andy33 wrote:
I suppose you could remove the wings, fit 737NG wings instead with 737NG engine mountings and engines


CFM is not planning on producing the CFM56-7b much longer because it will be replaced by the LEAP-1B. Also, this aircraft would be utterly uncompetitive against the A320NEO and no amount of financial compensation from Boeing for additional fuel costs could make up for the fact that it can't cross the Atlantic.

In the extremely unlikely event that the 737-MAX is found to be truly unrecertifiable with no remedy to its deficiencies and Boeing has to scrap the program, all of the existing frames will need to be scrapped. Their engines will not be of use on any other type, real or conceptual, because their design is somewhat suboptimal to begin with. Boeing would then face the prospect of having to develop an NSA from nothing, during which Airbus would be raking in huge amounts of money from the NEO and forced to ramp up production to absurd levels to cover the demand.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3929
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Can existing 737MAX airframes be deMAXed?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:49 am

jmc1975 wrote:
Let's assume for a moment that we see a scenario where the 737MAX is not re-certified for airworthiness and is determined to have an inherent design flaw. What would then become of the 200+ existing 737MAX airframes around the world? Would it be financially viable to convert MAX airframes back to 737NGs? Since the 737NG has been a reliable workhorse for 2 decades, Boeing could continue to build 737NGs for its customers, putting its MAX problems behind it, all while investing in R&D for a clean-sheet 737/757 replacement.

It would be extensive But they would need to remove the engine Pylons and replace them with the Previous Pylon and engine combination. Boeing really needs to just re-design the 737 with a taller Main gear to accommodate the engine they Have. The 737 was designed around the JT8D and the design is Dated at best.
 
User avatar
Siren
Posts: 774
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:50 am

Re: Can existing 737MAX airframes be deMAXed?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:58 am

They *did* redesign the landing gear for the MAX - they all have a taller nose gear to accommodate the engine, and Boeing is working on an articulated main gear for the MAX10... DocLightning is absolutely correct in that - it would be nearly impossible to 'deMAX' a MAX... if the plane is truly uncertifiable, they will need to scrap the aircraft. That said, it'll never happen - the planes will be certified again - it is just a matter of time, and a matter of how much engineering changes will need to be done to the already completed frames. I have a strong suspicion that the software package will be the definitive fix, and the aircraft will then quickly go into service.

There are just too many changes up and down the frame for them to simply bolt on new pylons and CFM56s. It could be done - at an astronomical cost probably equaling the cost to build an entirely new frame from scratch, but why modify if the costs are that high? I could see it being done to 'save face', but this is so far into the realm of unlikely, I just can't see it. Mark my words: the MAX will be back in service by this time next year... it must be, or we're looking at a catastrophe that will likely bring down the company, or at least require it to get a government bailout to save it.
 
kabq737
Moderator
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:06 am

Re: Can existing 737MAX airframes be deMAXed?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:30 am

This has been discussed multiple times in multiple places. The thread will be locked for housekeeping purposes.
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
Flown: SEEKER, C150M C172N, C172R, C172S, C182RG, DA40, PA-46
Airliners.net Forum Moderator
 
uta999
Posts: 740
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:10 am

Re: Can existing 737MAX airframes be deMAXed?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:30 am

If the MAX doesn’t fly again, Airbus would take over Boeing and they would build the NEO.

That’s not going to happen, so the MAX needs to be fixed.
Your computer just got better
 
uta999
Posts: 740
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:10 am

Re: Can existing 737MAX airframes be deMAXed?

Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:30 am

If the MAX doesn’t fly again, Airbus would take over Boeing and they would build the NEO.

That’s not going to happen, so the MAX needs to be fixed.
Your computer just got better

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos