Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
caflyboy wrote:It seems like the map is gone from the WN site, so taking some time, I put the following together by8 different regions:
Total Airports Served: 103
PacoMartin wrote:caflyboy wrote:It seems like the map is gone from the WN site, so taking some time, I put the following together by8 different regions:
Total Airports Served: 103
Thanks for the summary of the 789 point to point routes served by WN. They have always maintained that one of the keys to their success is the sheer number of point to point routes so that passengers don't have to spend a lot of time changing planes.
I think Southwest has changed from aggressively adding new flights from their founding up to 2008. Now they primarily upgauge people to larger capacities. These last two years were the time that they were going to aggressively expand their network with the MAX jets, but sadly that is on hold.
Up and coming airlines like Frontier have been able to expand their network at a much higher overall rate.
Southwest change in number of domestic flights
3.34% 2004
4.80% 2005
6.18% 2006
6.26% 2007
2.62% 2008
-5.54% 2009
-0.95% 2010
2.76% 2011
-1.11% 2012
-0.75% 2013
3.35% 2014
7.48% 2015
3.01% 2016
2.13% 2017
1.75% 2018
-1.96% 2019
Frontier change in number of domestic flights
14.76% 2003
17.74% 2004
10.37% 2005
17.91% 2006
9.00% 2007
-1.78% 2008
-10.72% 2009
-5.96% 2010
5.68% 2011
-7.24% 2012
-4.86% 2013
13.54% 2014
6.88% 2015
3.33% 2016
8.57% 2017
15.21% 2018
SWADawg wrote:He’s also using flawed data since WN is now currently down nearly 70 jets counting the 34 parked in VCV and the 35+ they were supposed to take delivery of this year. Let’s see what F9’s growth would look like if they were down a proportionate number of jets.
Scarebus34 wrote:Ha. What a giant waste of time.
SANFan wrote:Since it was brought up in the OP, does anyone in the know have any idea if WN's interactive route map is gone forever or just temporarily on leave? It doesn't seem that its disappearance can be blamed on the MAX grounding but that's about when it went away. (And of course everything else wrong in the aviation world is so why not?)
My guess is that unless it was "automated' somehow, it must have taken lots of labor-hours to keep it current. Maybe there's a newer, better one that WN will convert to?
I for one certainly hope it does return; those maps are great tools for consumers (as well as for us av-geeks!)
bb
bob75013 wrote:PacoMartin wrote:Thanks for the summary of the 789 point to point routes served by WN. They have always maintained that one of the keys to their success is the sheer number of point to point routes so that passengers don't have to spend a lot of time changing planes.
I thought that this is a WN thread...mariner reincarnated?
Scarebus34 wrote:Ha. What a giant waste of time.
spinotter wrote:Scarebus34 wrote:Ha. What a giant waste of time.
Why do you say that? Assuming that it is updated, it is a handy list for us airline geeks.
Scarebus34 wrote:spinotter wrote:Scarebus34 wrote:Ha. What a giant waste of time.
Why do you say that? Assuming that it is updated, it is a handy list for us airline geeks.
Because the premise of him doing it was assuming that the information was no longer listed on WN's website. It is...
spinotter wrote:Scarebus34 wrote:spinotter wrote:
Why do you say that? Assuming that it is updated, it is a handy list for us airline geeks.
Because the premise of him doing it was assuming that the information was no longer listed on WN's website. It is...
But he/she has it in a handy portable form now. And doing that exercise cannot help but make the person better informed about the WN network in all its gory details.
caflyboy wrote:And in reference to WN changing direction, It is true that, rather than simply increase or decrease frequency (which all airlines do) there has been an increase in routes being added or dropped. Having a vehicle to capture that is important, for all us geeks.
spinotter wrote:Scarebus34 wrote:Why do you say that? Assuming that it is updated, it is a handy list for us airline geeks.Ha. What a giant waste of time.
seat1a wrote:The list shows LGA-SAT, I didn't think a non-stop is offered. Just checked the Southwest website and none exist. Is the data for non-stop and direct flights?
sprxUSA wrote:Some and many routes indicated are not yet started, seasonal, specific days only etc. Plus, some of the ones will be ending so it is a fluid list.
As for frequency adds as opposed to station additions, I seem to feel many routes have actually seen a decrease. What is DAL-HOU down to now? Same with LAX-PHX/LAS, LAS=PHX and so on. Used to be up to 20/day each way, but certainly not near that now.
And wasn't IAH the original WN location in Houston at the start?
caflyboy wrote:seat1a wrote:The list shows LGA-SAT, I didn't think a non-stop is offered. Just checked the Southwest website and none exist. Is the data for non-stop and direct flights?
https://www.southwest.com/flight/routemap_dyn.html?clk=GSUBNAV-AIR-ROUTEMAP
This shows LGA - SAT nonstop on the site. Not sure when it operates, but WN lists it as a non-stop.
caflyboy wrote:Thanks in advance for the constructive feedback. Fixed one city pair (BWI- PHL should be BWI-PHX).
PacoMartin wrote:bob75013 wrote:PacoMartin wrote:Thanks for the summary of the 789 point to point routes served by WN. They have always maintained that one of the keys to their success is the sheer number of point to point routes so that passengers don't have to spend a lot of time changing planes.
I thought that this is a WN thread...mariner reincarnated?
It is a WN thread, but since the OP took the trouble to spell out the entire network of 789 routes, I thought perhaps the appropriate topic was to compare that to other airlines and to it's own past.
I've stated that Southwest aggressively added routes and new airports up until 2008, when the rate of expansion dropped off considerably.
A survey done in March of 2019 https://www.flight-delayed.co.uk/blog/2019/03/14/the-airlines-with-the-most-routes-in-the-world
6th place: Southwest Airlines: 754 different routes offered.
5th place: Delta Airlines: 939 routes
4th place: easyJet: 945 travel options
3rd place: United Airlines: 950 routes. Without the 7 new routes offered by United in 2019, only the 4th place would have been awarded.
2nd place: American Airlines: 1,106 routes
1st place: Ryanair: an impressive 1,831 routes
Southwest does not make a big deal out of the number of routes it offers because it is actually lower than the number offered by legacy airlines. Southwest might counter that the quality of the routes is far superior, because a legacy airline has lots of short routes (under a few hundred miles) to feed the hubs. So the raw number is not really good for marketing.
EK770 wrote:Does anyone know how many a/c are roughly based at each of the top 5-10 hubs?
LotsaRunway wrote:PacoMartin wrote:If you want a better metric for point to point service, try dividing the the number of routes by the number of cities served. AA, DL and UA are largely buoyed by an impressive list of cities that are connected by just one or two hubs. Not truly point to point since connections are a huge part of the operation.Southwest does not make a big deal out of the number of routes it offers because it is actually lower than the number offered by legacy airlines. Southwest might counter that the quality of the routes is far superior, because a legacy airline has lots of short routes (under a few hundred miles) to feed the hubs. So the raw number is not really good for marketing.
PacoMartin wrote:I don't know how many people noticed but the last 3 month statement had mostly negative changes for Southwest compared to a year ago.
There were fewer passengers on shorter lengths, reduced trips and seats, and nearly identical seats/jet since all of the smaller jets have been retired. Cost per available seat miles was way up, but fuel costs were down as was consumption. Payroll was up. Technically there was 23 more aircraft, but 34 were unable to fly.
Southwest's CASM at 12.36 cents is the highest it has been since 2014.
Previous years were 11.74 - 2018| 11.53 - 2017 | 11.29 - 2016 | 11.26 - 2015 | 12.55 - 2014
2019 Operational Metrics 2018 change %
34,924 Revenue passengers carried (000s) 35,266 -0.97%
989 Average length of passenger haul (miles) 997 -0.80%
750 Average aircraft stage length (miles) 763 -1.70%
347,684 Trips flown 353,928 -1.76%
52,398 Seats flown (000s) 53,301 -1.69%
150.7 Seats per trip 150.6 0.07%
2019 Cost Metrics 2018 change %
12.36 CASM (cents) 11.5 7.48%
2.13 Fuel costs per gallon 2.24 -4.91%
532 Fuel consumed, in gallons (millions) 543 -2.03%
59,793 Active fulltime equivalent Employees 57,674 3.67%
753 Aircraft at end of period 730 3.15%
2019 Financial Metrics 2018 change %
$157.10 Average passenger fare $151.94 3.40%
$741 NET INCOME (millions) $733 1.09%
The bottom line is if Southwest didn't pay $83 million less in fuel this quarter, they never would have been able to increase "net income" by $8 million.
Since fuel costs are largely out of control of the airline, I expect to see some big changes in the network as management attempts to cut out underperforming routes. We have already heard some big announcements like closing Newark and shutting down 20 routes.
Right now, I am bearish on Southwest.
Cubsrule wrote:PacoMartin wrote:Right now, I am bearish on Southwest.
Maybe there are issues. But how does the CASM of an early-build 73G compare to the CASM of a MAX? The first 73G are getting to be maintenance hogs; when I check FR24 and see a 700s tail number planned, I anticipate being delayed and am usually right.
PacoMartin wrote:Cubsrule wrote:PacoMartin wrote:Right now, I am bearish on Southwest.
Maybe there are issues. But how does the CASM of an early-build 73G compare to the CASM of a MAX? The first 73G are getting to be maintenance hogs; when I check FR24 and see a 700s tail number planned, I anticipate being delayed and am usually right.
I am sure there is a difference, but I don't have any metrics.
When I say that I am bearish on Southwest, I don't mean that I expect them to break their incredibly long streak of quarters without making money when they present 3rd quarter on 24 October. I just mean that the next two quarters may see the lowest percentages as they have since CASM was this high 2011-2014.
Southwest's CASM at 12.36 cents is the highest it has been since 2014.
Previous years were
11.74 - 2018 | 11.53 - 2017 | 11.29 - 2016 | 11.26 - 2015 | 12.55 - 2014 |
12.60 - 2013 | 12.85 - 2012 | 12.41 - 2011 | 11.29 - 2010
Cubsrule wrote:I don’t disagree with any of that. I’m just not sure that the numbers will be that meaningful until the MAX situation gets sorted out. The start of Hawaii also likely has had a negative effect on financials, though that may already be abating.