Whist reading about VS future expansion ambitions when LHR 3rd runways slots become available, I also read that easyjet is interested in slots there too. Why didn't easyjet make use of the vacant remedy slots after they were vacated by little red?

A handful of remedy slots with proscribed domestic destinations are no use to an LCC who want to base a minimum of 5 or 6 Aircraft there at the opening of a base to start European routes.

flyjay123 wrote:

Whist reading about VS future expansion ambitions when LHR 3rd runways slots become available, I also read that easyjet is interested in slots there too. Why didn't easyjet make use of the vacant remedy slots after they were vacated by little red?

The previous easyJet CEO was very specific about this. easyjet are only interested in LHR if it gets the 3rd runway. By that time, they can open a base with the A360.

Easyjet at Heathrow is a waste, when the third runway does arrive full service airline from around the world will fill its slots day one. There are plenty London airports for the LCC airlines.

jfk777 wrote:

Easyjet at Heathrow is a waste, when the third runway does arrive full service airline from around the world will fill its slots day one. There are plenty London airports for the LCC airlines.

Wishful thinking I’m afraid.

Unless Shai Weiss gets his way, new entrants will get a degree of priority and that means EasyJet and Ryanair.

This obviously assumes runway three ever happens, and that if it does happen there is sufficient pent up demand which would be satisfied instantly - which IIRC the airport commission doubted.

If the UK wished to keep Ryanair at STN and EasyJet at LGW they would have expanded there. For questionable reasons they chose LHR and that means EasyJet and Ryanair going after BA on the short haul and potentially undermining the hub business model.

DobboDobbo wrote:

jfk777 wrote:

Easyjet at Heathrow is a waste, when the third runway does arrive full service airline from around the world will fill its slots day one. There are plenty London airports for the LCC airlines.

Wishful thinking I’m afraid.

Unless Shai Weiss gets his way, new entrants will get a degree of priority and that means EasyJet and Ryanair.

This obviously assumes runway three ever happens, and that if it does happen there is sufficient pent up demand which would be satisfied instantly - which IIRC the airport commission doubted.

If the UK wished to keep Ryanair at STN and EasyJet at LGW they would have expanded there. For questionable reasons they chose LHR and that means EasyJet and Ryanair going after BA on the short haul and potentially undermining the hub business model.

I think it'll be interesting to see which way things go if a LHR 3rd runway gets off the ground. On the one hand you have IAG which will absolutely get more slots out of this because while the British Government will want to increase competition they will also give BA slots to expand with. On the other side you have players like EasyJet, Ryanair and Virgin Altantic. If you want more competition at the airport and you're the British Government, who are you going to prioritise in that? A carrier with a reputation like EasyJet or Ryanair who are aggressively competitive or Virgin Atlantic? The better play for competition is likely Easyjey and Ryanair and not Virgins pipe dream a lot of which can be fixed by allocating or selling slots to foreigners.

It'll also be interesting to see what happens at LGW as well. Contrary to what a lot of other posters say I think IAG will keep the existing hub at LGW but maybe not as BA, maybe as a Level / Vueling hub. That would be the same for EasyJet who would see LHR as an additional growth play for them rather than a LGW substitute. That works the same for Ryanair and their operations in London as well.

That also doesn't take into account Norwegian and possible LCC long haul ops from LHR.

So overall I actually think the Virgin proposal provides the least possible competition at LHR with a spread of LCC's being a much better option.

I believe the key will be airport costs after the third runway is built at LHR. CPE is already very high at Heathrow. High airport costs will discourage LCC's from entering the fray.

jfk777 wrote:

Easyjet at Heathrow is a waste, when the third runway does arrive full service airline from around the world will fill its slots day one. There are plenty London airports for the LCC airlines.

You are aware that a large part of the current slots are already in the hands of a LCC airline? It's called British Airways short haul.

DCAfan wrote:

I believe the key will be airport costs after the third runway is built at LHR. CPE is already very high at Heathrow. High airport costs will discourage LCC's from entering the fray.

I don’t agree with that.

The airport charges will be the same for EasyJet as they are for BA. If the rest of EasyJet's cost base is lower than BA’s, they can generally sell cheaper tickets than BA on a given route (assuming each takes the same margin).

As has been pointed out, the BA short haul product is largely indistinguishable from EasyJet now, and if EasyJet can also offer cheaper tickets you would expect EasyJet to take market share from BA.

There are obviously wider factors at play, but I think this is the nub of why BA don’t want to see runway 3.

I don't think it is usually UK Government policy to protect British Airways against fair competition. Don't 50% of the new slots created by a third runway have to be offered to new entrants?

Easyjet subsidies easybus cooperate with megabus for service to Bristol and Cardiff

Meanwhile, on another news outlet, KIA is saying how they will compete with Aston Martin in the high-performance, luxury sport cars market.

Based on the “use it or loose it” policy at LHR I’m not sure what Virgin or easyJet are planning on doing. Do Virgin want a favour? More free slots while they have plenty leased out? They could serve Moscow and NCE already, if they wanted to with IAG remedy slots.

easyJet will be keeping a close eye on LHR and any opportunities offered, just like they did at Gatwick from 2002 onwards.

IAE, VS, FR and U2 will all be watching carefully. Maybe even the likes of Wizz. But they will need aircraft and crews waiting to start service. I think most expect easyJet to launch an LHR base when the third runway opens. T4 could be a good home for them with their O&D traffic.

Are there no short haul slots available during the day outside peak times where easy could fly in without need for a base . Ie nce gva Bcn . Think they could start to build a presence before the third runway gets built ?

f4f3a wrote:

Are there no short haul slots available during the day outside peak times where easy could fly in without need for a base . Ie nce gva Bcn . Think they could start to build a presence before the third runway gets built ?

I agree with what you say. And the 3 airports you mentionned are all easyjet crew bases. Quite simple to open NCE-LHR-NCE indeed. But if they don’t do it yet, it must be for a good reason I guess.

DobboDobbo wrote:

DCAfan wrote:

I believe the key will be airport costs after the third runway is built at LHR. CPE is already very high at Heathrow. High airport costs will discourage LCC's from entering the fray.

I don’t agree with that.

The airport charges will be the same for EasyJet as they are for BA. If the rest of EasyJet's cost base is lower than BA’s, they can generally sell cheaper tickets than BA on a given route (assuming each takes the same margin).

As has been pointed out, the BA short haul product is largely indistinguishable from EasyJet now, and if EasyJet can also offer cheaper tickets you would expect EasyJet to take market share from BA.

There are obviously wider factors at play, but I think this is the nub of why BA don’t want to see runway 3.

The problem is that BA generates a lot more revenue due to the power of their network at LHR. Luton will soon have express trains to St. Pancras station with an APM system that gets rid of the buses. Why bother with LHR unless airport costs get much lower?

DCAfan wrote:

DobboDobbo wrote:

DCAfan wrote:

I believe the key will be airport costs after the third runway is built at LHR. CPE is already very high at Heathrow. High airport costs will discourage LCC's from entering the fray.

I don’t agree with that.

The airport charges will be the same for EasyJet as they are for BA. If the rest of EasyJet's cost base is lower than BA’s, they can generally sell cheaper tickets than BA on a given route (assuming each takes the same margin).

As has been pointed out, the BA short haul product is largely indistinguishable from EasyJet now, and if EasyJet can also offer cheaper tickets you would expect EasyJet to take market share from BA.

There are obviously wider factors at play, but I think this is the nub of why BA don’t want to see runway 3.

The problem is that BA generates a lot more revenue due to the power of their network at LHR. Luton will soon have express trains to St. Pancras station with an APM system that gets rid of the buses. Why bother with LHR unless airport costs get much lower?

I thing you ask a very pertinent question - why bother with LHR unless airport costs get much lower?

The reason why the likes of EasyJet, Ryanair etc will bother is because the UK government has committed to a policy that means if any new capacity is built in London in the foreseeable, it is at LHR.

This means the LHR monopoly continues, and therefore any airline wishing to expand in London will focus on LHR and try and find a way to make it work.

jfk777 wrote:

Easyjet at Heathrow is a waste, when the third runway does arrive full service airline from around the world will fill its slots day one. There are plenty London airports for the LCC airlines.

You know shorthaul easyJet outside Club is better than BA’s? You knew that? The majority of the market is in Y p2p and easyJet’s product is more efficient and the cabin service is way better than “full service” BA’s M&S disaster. Be careful you don’t walk into things with your nose so high in the air. The plan is for easyJet to move into T4 with a based fleet. Btw there is NO way LHR will be full on day one of R3, there’s literally not the business to do it. Run the list of long haul options, it’s not THAT big, and whilst R3 is needed yesterday, even CDG and AMS have large EZY presence. Your view of LHR is about 2 decades out of date.

f4f3a wrote:

Are there no short haul slots available during the day outside peak times where easy could fly in without need for a base . Ie nce gva Bcn . Think they could start to build a presence before the third runway gets built ?

Yes there are, I remember when easyJet moved into BA’s Fortess Gatwick, and look how positions have reversed with BA moving back to the old South Terminal as North is literally dominated by EZY.

Modern BA is first choice on a lot of short haul routes only by virtue of operating from Heathrow, they have a nice wee duopoly on LHR-DUB/MAD within IAG, real competition is not what they want, that’s the driver behind wee Willie’s reluctance on runway 3.

f4f3a wrote:

Are there no short haul slots available during the day outside peak times where easy could fly in without need for a base . Ie nce gva Bcn . Think they could start to build a presence before the third runway gets built ?

That would make sense were it any other airport but given LHR's busy nature I think the 30 minute turnarounds would be a struggle perhaps? Several airlines have 40minute turnarounds at LHR and they struggle to make these and are saved only by schedule padding. It probably doesn't make sense to train staff with short turnarounds or to pay the higher airport fees when it's just for a few flights and LGW is also very close by.

This is a serious ambition. 50+ daily flights out of T2 by 2035.

BasilFawlty wrote:

jfk777 wrote:

Easyjet at Heathrow is a waste, when the third runway does arrive full service airline from around the world will fill its slots day one. There are plenty London airports for the LCC airlines.

You are aware that a large part of the current slots are already in the hands of a LCC airline? It's called British Airways short haul.

I am talking about 100% LCC airlines, there is always one person who slices the onions into the weeds.

DobboDobbo wrote:

jfk777 wrote:

Easyjet at Heathrow is a waste, when the third runway does arrive full service airline from around the world will fill its slots day one. There are plenty London airports for the LCC airlines.

Wishful thinking I’m afraid.

Unless Shai Weiss gets his way, new entrants will get a degree of priority and that means EasyJet and Ryanair.

This obviously assumes runway three ever happens, and that if it does happen there is sufficient pent up demand which would be satisfied instantly - which IIRC the airport commission doubted.

If the UK wished to keep Ryanair at STN and EasyJet at LGW they would have expanded there. For questionable reasons they chose LHR and that means EasyJet and Ryanair going after BA on the short haul and potentially undermining the hub business model.

All 3 airports should have additional runways. Their operations are made rather inefficient by the extreme limitations on the number of runways. LHR should have had a 3rd runway 40 years ago. It really needs 4 runways.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

DobboDobbo wrote:

jfk777 wrote:

Easyjet at Heathrow is a waste, when the third runway does arrive full service airline from around the world will fill its slots day one. There are plenty London airports for the LCC airlines.

Wishful thinking I’m afraid.

Unless Shai Weiss gets his way, new entrants will get a degree of priority and that means EasyJet and Ryanair.

This obviously assumes runway three ever happens, and that if it does happen there is sufficient pent up demand which would be satisfied instantly - which IIRC the airport commission doubted.

If the UK wished to keep Ryanair at STN and EasyJet at LGW they would have expanded there. For questionable reasons they chose LHR and that means EasyJet and Ryanair going after BA on the short haul and potentially undermining the hub business model.

All 3 airports should have additional runways. Their operations are made rather inefficient by the extreme limitations on the number of runways. LHR should have had a 3rd runway 40 years ago. It really needs 4 runways.

From a strictly commercial perspective, you can make that argument.

However, the UK didn’t have the lax planning regime of China, or the land available in places like the USA, so that solution is not an option at the present time.