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DocLightning
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DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:30 am

Looks like DL 2353, a 767-300ER (N1608, delivered in 2000) rapidly descended from FL390 to FL100 over a course of about five minutes and diverted to TPA from a planned ATL-FLL. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl2353

Has anyone heard about this? Looks like a depressurization event.
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alggag
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:40 am

 
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N776AU
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:31 am

Heard this on the radio this morning on the way in to work. WSB failed to mention it was an emergency descent for a pressurization issue :sarcastic:
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United787
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:15 pm

Just for the record, DL introduced the 30,000 foot plunge first! UA should be following suit in 3 years and AA in 7 years.

Edit: FYI, this was sarcasm...

Also, DocLightning, you should replace "rapidly descending" to "plunging 30,000 feet" if you want more clicks on this thread ;)
 
MIflyer12
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:30 pm

Flightaware shows that 763 at FL390 just 20 minutes after departure. Wouldn't have guessed it had the oomph for that. Light fuel load, sure.
 
FlyHPN
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:33 pm

United787 wrote:
Just for the record, DL introduced the 30,000 foot plunge first! UA should be following suit in 3 years and AA in 7 years.

Edit: FYI, this was sarcasm...

Also, DocLightning, you should replace "rapidly descending" to "plunging 30,000 feet" if you want more clicks on this thread ;)

Thanks for the fantastic morning laugh.
 
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DL717
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:36 pm

United787 wrote:
Just for the record, DL introduced the 30,000 foot plunge first! UA should be following suit in 3 years and AA in 7 years.

Edit: FYI, this was sarcasm...

Also, DocLightning, you should replace "rapidly descending" to "plunging 30,000 feet" if you want more clicks on this thread ;)


No, no. Plane farts at 30k. People nearly die. News at 11.
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flipdewaf
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:48 pm

United787 wrote:
Just for the record, DL introduced the 30,000 foot plunge first! UA should be following suit in 3 years and AA in 7 years.

Edit: FYI, this was sarcasm...

Also, DocLightning, you should replace "rapidly descending" to "plunging 30,000 feet" if you want more clicks on this thread ;)


"near death", "nose dive" 30,000ft = "nearly 6 miles dive of terror" Finally you must call it the 767max.

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KFTG
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:07 pm

How is the year the airplane was built relevant to the discussion?
 
maps4ltd
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:35 pm

Eugenewats wrote:
KFTG wrote:
How is the year the airplane was built relevant to the discussion?


Age of the aircraft seem like a pertinent piece of info, given the topic. How is your comment relevant to the discussion?


This myth has been beaten near to death, but one more time:

Age has nothing to do with safety.
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maps4ltd
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:36 pm

Does anyone know why it was running as a 763 instead of a 752? Equipment swap?
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DocLightning
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:41 pm

KFTG wrote:
How is the year the airplane was built relevant to the discussion?


The same reason the reg is relevant.
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catiii
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:45 pm

Different pics from inside the cabin here: https://nypost.com/2019/09/19/in-flight ... 0000-feet/

Chaos! :sarcastic:
 
IFlyVeryLittle
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:54 pm

Agreed that the media often gets initial details wrong and almost always overcooks these events. But this plain-vanilla response from a Delta spokesman seems a little undercooked: "the flight diverted to Tampa out of an abundance of caution and landed without incident following a cabin pressurization irregularity en route.”
 
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:02 pm

I saw the click baity article this morning and wondered, how many fatal aviation accidents actually involve the masks dropping? I'd imagine probably only some fires/fumes and maybe events like MH17 disintegrating / losing pressurization and the masks then dropping
 
MIflyer12
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:10 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Does anyone know why it was running as a 763 instead of a 752? Equipment swap?


That flight is regularly scheduled for a 763.
 
DylanHarvey
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:12 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Flightaware shows that 763 at FL390 just 20 minutes after departure. Wouldn't have guessed it had the oomph for that. Light fuel load, sure.

763's are some of the better performers off the runway, not always the highest initial FL, but a light 763 is essentially a 757 on drugs.
 
chicawgo
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:29 pm

alggag wrote:


Some of the poorest writing I’ve ever seen. I especially love this line:

“Another passenger said he was so scared by what was happening, he told his family he loved them and hugged his son.”

I know what they meant but it’s quite funny in the context
 
BravoOne
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:44 pm

Rapid descents due to pressuriztion problems are not that uncommon and crews train for these non normal procedures regularly. The maneuver is usually accomplished with the autopilot engaged as it produces a smoother more precise flight path. Short of an explosive deompression like a window or door failure it's hardly news worthy.

Typical news outlet verbiage usually over dramatizes the event. The age of the airplane in this case would appear to have nothing to do with the event. If you cannot maintain control of the cabin in the normal auto mode, there is a backup manual mode. The manual mode takes a little finesse to keep it the ears from hurting, but it still works...most of the time. A prudent crew would probably start a descent to a lower altitude when thing started to get out of hand.

I'm confident that the crew in this case handled the problem just fine, given the circumstances.
 
phllax
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:26 pm

I've had a mask event and rapid descent on an AA 757 LAX-DFW back in 2010. Everyone was calm. I was sitting next to a woman with a lap child and had to help them. We leveled off and continued to DFW about an hour later. The best part was that the gate agent came on and said, "For those of you continuing to Tulsa, oh wait..." She obviously hadn't been made aware of the situation and not looked into the cabin from the 1L vestibule.
 
CO953
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:51 pm

KFTG wrote:
How is the year the airplane was built relevant to the discussion?


Metal fatigue/cycles, I would think?
 
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:01 pm

Every week DL is in the news for poor aircraft maintenance it seems. What is going on with DL’s ops?? A year or two ago you never would see consecutive stories about DL in the news unless it was about DL’s amazing service recovery and how they bring pizzas to the gate. Now it’s bad landings, emergency landings, trapping customers onboard for hours. Jeez....
 
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lightsaber
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:03 pm

Do not discuss other users. Read the forum rules.

Aircraft have failures like this, sometimes on age (For example, earlier 767s have an aft bulkhead issue that requires bulkhead replacement after some number of cycles). It could be the cabin pressurization valves failed (time since overhaul). It could be many things, let us have a fact based civil discussion.

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MIflyer12
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:19 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Every week DL is in the news for poor aircraft maintenance it seems. What is going on with DL’s ops??


Compare the rates of diversions and cancellations and try again.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:56 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Every week DL is in the news for poor aircraft maintenance it seems. What is going on with DL’s ops?? A year or two ago you never would see consecutive stories about DL in the news unless it was about DL’s amazing service recovery and how they bring pizzas to the gate. Now it’s bad landings, emergency landings, trapping customers onboard for hours. Jeez....

When you have 800+ aircraft in your fleet, you are bound to have more "maintenance issues" than an airline with 20-something planes...
Relatively, DL has very few maintenance issue.
 
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:23 pm

chicawgo wrote:
Some of the poorest writing I’ve ever seen.


Agreed. I saw the article this morning and thought it was a new low for journalism, which is hard to fathom since new lows are made seemingly every day.

WayexTDI wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Every week DL is in the news for poor aircraft maintenance it seems. What is going on with DL’s ops?? A year or two ago you never would see consecutive stories about DL in the news unless it was about DL’s amazing service recovery and how they bring pizzas to the gate. Now it’s bad landings, emergency landings, trapping customers onboard for hours. Jeez....

When you have 800+ aircraft in your fleet, you are bound to have more "maintenance issues" than an airline with 20-something planes...
Relatively, DL has very few maintenance issue.


Also agreed - events have to be weighed against statistics.
 
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:25 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Every week DL is in the news for poor aircraft maintenance it seems. What is going on with DL’s ops??


Compare the rates of diversions and cancellations and try again.


Here's 8 incidents from the last 6 weeks. Please pull 8 separate articles from each AA and UA over the last 6-weeks and prove me wrong:

1). Yesterday's FLL flight
2). September 9th emergency landing in Missoula - https://nbcmontana.com/news/local/delta ... n-missoula
3). August 22nd JFK-LAX 18-hour delayed and awful treatment of passengers - https://pix11.com/2019/08/22/passengers ... overnight/
4). August 22nd flight from hell JFK-MIA passengers kept on plane for 11-hours - https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/D ... 61311.html
5). August 20th LIS-JFK emergency landing - https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/08/20 ... y-landing/
6). August 20th JFK-PDL awful landing mishap - https://www.foxnews.com/travel/delta-pl ... rd-landing
7). August 17th PLS-ATL emergency landing in NAS - https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-a ... assau.html
8). August 2nd emergency landing in Montgomery, AL - https://www.alabamanews.net/2019/08/02/ ... ontgomery/
 
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:32 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
I saw the click baity article this morning and wondered, how many fatal aviation accidents actually involve the masks dropping? I'd imagine probably only some fires/fumes and maybe events like MH17 disintegrating / losing pressurization and the masks then dropping

Did the masks drop in the only US airline fatality in recent history?
 
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:32 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Every week DL is in the news for poor aircraft maintenance it seems. What is going on with DL’s ops??


Compare the rates of diversions and cancellations and try again.


Here's 8 incidents from the last 6 weeks. Please pull 8 separate articles from each AA and UA over the last 6-weeks and prove me wrong:

1). Yesterday's FLL flight
2). September 9th emergency landing in Missoula - https://nbcmontana.com/news/local/delta ... n-missoula
3). August 22nd JFK-LAX 18-hour delayed and awful treatment of passengers - https://pix11.com/2019/08/22/passengers ... overnight/
4). August 22nd flight from hell JFK-MIA passengers kept on plane for 11-hours - https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/D ... 61311.html
5). August 20th LIS-JFK emergency landing - https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/08/20 ... y-landing/
6). August 20th JFK-PDL awful landing mishap - https://www.foxnews.com/travel/delta-pl ... rd-landing
7). August 17th PLS-ATL emergency landing in NAS - https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-a ... assau.html
8). August 2nd emergency landing in Montgomery, AL - https://www.alabamanews.net/2019/08/02/ ... ontgomery/


Two of those are the same flight and not a mechanical issue.

'902
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September11
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:45 pm

OK DAL2353
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alasizon
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:11 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Every week DL is in the news for poor aircraft maintenance it seems. What is going on with DL’s ops?? A year or two ago you never would see consecutive stories about DL in the news unless it was about DL’s amazing service recovery and how they bring pizzas to the gate. Now it’s bad landings, emergency landings, trapping customers onboard for hours. Jeez....

When you have 800+ aircraft in your fleet, you are bound to have more "maintenance issues" than an airline with 20-something planes...
Relatively, DL has very few maintenance issue.


It's open media season on airlines and DL happens to be the flavor of the quarter. Q2 was AA. It's all operationally "normal" but the media picks the stories up at runs with them because they are airline stories and that seems to be what the public craves at the moment (forget human interest stories, its all about the airlines).
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:31 pm

chicawgo wrote:
alggag wrote:


Some of the poorest writing I’ve ever seen. I especially love this line:

“Another passenger said he was so scared by what was happening, he told his family he loved them and hugged his son.”

I know what they meant but it’s quite funny in the context


What was poor about it? The station appeared to quote the passengers accurately. Are you demeaning their experience? I’m sure to most passengers this would be quite scary, so I don’t get what context it would be funny in.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:43 am

TWA902fly wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Compare the rates of diversions and cancellations and try again.


Here's 8 incidents from the last 6 weeks. Please pull 8 separate articles from each AA and UA over the last 6-weeks and prove me wrong:

1). Yesterday's FLL flight
2). September 9th emergency landing in Missoula - https://nbcmontana.com/news/local/delta ... n-missoula
3). August 22nd JFK-LAX 18-hour delayed and awful treatment of passengers - https://pix11.com/2019/08/22/passengers ... overnight/
4). August 22nd flight from hell JFK-MIA passengers kept on plane for 11-hours - https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/D ... 61311.html
5). August 20th LIS-JFK emergency landing - https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/08/20 ... y-landing/
6). August 20th JFK-PDL awful landing mishap - https://www.foxnews.com/travel/delta-pl ... rd-landing
7). August 17th PLS-ATL emergency landing in NAS - https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-a ... assau.html
8). August 2nd emergency landing in Montgomery, AL - https://www.alabamanews.net/2019/08/02/ ... ontgomery/


Two of those are the same flight and not a mechanical issue.

'902


You clearly have reading comprehension issues.

A). None of those are the same flight. Please enlighten us and tell us which two are the same?

B). I clearly said in my first post “Now it’s bad landings, emergency landings, trapping customers onboard for hours.”

C). EVERY single one of the incidents I linked was mechanical related.
 
B757Forever
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:10 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Every week DL is in the news for poor aircraft maintenance it seems. What is going on with DL’s ops?? A year or two ago you never would see consecutive stories about DL in the news unless it was about DL’s amazing service recovery and how they bring pizzas to the gate. Now it’s bad landings, emergency landings, trapping customers onboard for hours. Jeez....


I suppose it depends on your sources. This is a sample of AA's issues since August 1, roughly six weeks worth. I pulled this from Av Herald, not the MSM. I did not sample any other carriers though.

Incident American A321 near Phoenix on Sep 13th 2019, cabin pressurization problem
Incident American B763 near Columbus on Sep 16th 2019, engine oil filter message
Incident American A319 at Boston on Sep 11th 2019, hydraulic failure
Incident American B738 at Phoenix on Sep 12th 2019, rejected takeoff due to configuration warning
Incident American A319 at Charlotte on Sep 1st 2019, engine compressor stall
Incident American B752 at Shannon on Aug 22nd 2019, engine malfunction
Incident American A319 at Georgetown on Aug 21st 2019, runway excursion on backtrack
Incident American A321 near Abilene on Aug 21st 2019, fumes in cockpit
Incident American B763 near San Andres on Aug 12th 2019, hydraulic failure
Incident American A321 near Amarillo on Aug 2nd 2019, engine shut down in flight
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:15 am

TVNWZ wrote:
chicawgo wrote:
alggag wrote:


Some of the poorest writing I’ve ever seen. I especially love this line:

“Another passenger said he was so scared by what was happening, he told his family he loved them and hugged his son.”

I know what they meant but it’s quite funny in the context


What was poor about it? The station appeared to quote the passengers accurately. Are you demeaning their experience? I’m sure to most passengers this would be quite scary, so I don’t get what context it would be funny in.


Typical sentimental, emotional media story. The passengers’ fear is irrelevant; were they in danger? No. Do they understand their environment? Probably not.

The father would have sent a much better example by acting with “grace under pressure”.

GF
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:02 am

B757Forever wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Every week DL is in the news for poor aircraft maintenance it seems. What is going on with DL’s ops?? A year or two ago you never would see consecutive stories about DL in the news unless it was about DL’s amazing service recovery and how they bring pizzas to the gate. Now it’s bad landings, emergency landings, trapping customers onboard for hours. Jeez....


I suppose it depends on your sources. This is a sample of AA's issues since August 1, roughly six weeks worth. I pulled this from Av Herald, not the MSM. I did not sample any other carriers though.

Incident American A321 near Phoenix on Sep 13th 2019, cabin pressurization problem
Incident American B763 near Columbus on Sep 16th 2019, engine oil filter message
Incident American A319 at Boston on Sep 11th 2019, hydraulic failure
Incident American B738 at Phoenix on Sep 12th 2019, rejected takeoff due to configuration warning
Incident American A319 at Charlotte on Sep 1st 2019, engine compressor stall
Incident American B752 at Shannon on Aug 22nd 2019, engine malfunction
Incident American A319 at Georgetown on Aug 21st 2019, runway excursion on backtrack
Incident American A321 near Abilene on Aug 21st 2019, fumes in cockpit
Incident American B763 near San Andres on Aug 12th 2019, hydraulic failure
Incident American A321 near Amarillo on Aug 2nd 2019, engine shut down in flight


Well if you want to go that route and use AV Hearld then Delta gives more ammo to work with:

http://avherald.com/h?search_term=Delta ... earch.y=11

DL continually makes it into the MSM because of how poor their ops handling and maintenance has been.
 
IPFreely
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:34 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Well if you want to go that route and use AV Hearld then Delta gives more ammo to work with:

http://avherald.com/h?search_term=Delta ... earch.y=11

DL continually makes it into the MSM because of how poor their ops handling and maintenance has been.


If I am counting correctly that is 10 incidents for AA and 59 incidents for DL in August.

It's definitely not a fleet size issue since AA (and Eagle) have more planes than DL (and Connection).

Part of it may be that Delta is flying an ancient fleet that tend to be less reliable. Or maybe part of it is DL cutting corners to maintain their "completion factor" statistics. Regardless, they need to get things under control before one of these incidents becomes more serious than they have been so far.
 
TWA902fly
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:43 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
TWA902fly wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

Here's 8 incidents from the last 6 weeks. Please pull 8 separate articles from each AA and UA over the last 6-weeks and prove me wrong:

1). Yesterday's FLL flight
2). September 9th emergency landing in Missoula - https://nbcmontana.com/news/local/delta ... n-missoula
3). August 22nd JFK-LAX 18-hour delayed and awful treatment of passengers - https://pix11.com/2019/08/22/passengers ... overnight/
4). August 22nd flight from hell JFK-MIA passengers kept on plane for 11-hours - https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/D ... 61311.html
5). August 20th LIS-JFK emergency landing - https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/08/20 ... y-landing/
6). August 20th JFK-PDL awful landing mishap - https://www.foxnews.com/travel/delta-pl ... rd-landing
7). August 17th PLS-ATL emergency landing in NAS - https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-a ... assau.html
8). August 2nd emergency landing in Montgomery, AL - https://www.alabamanews.net/2019/08/02/ ... ontgomery/


Two of those are the same flight and not a mechanical issue.

'902


You clearly have reading comprehension issues.

A). None of those are the same flight. Please enlighten us and tell us which two are the same?

B). I clearly said in my first post “Now it’s bad landings, emergency landings, trapping customers onboard for hours.”

C). EVERY single one of the incidents I linked was mechanical related.


Yikes. Off to insults already.

Check your links for #3 and #4, both are about DL 975 JFK-LAX on the same day.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
spacecadet
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:41 am

As is often the case with these things here, I think the reasonable response is somewhere in between how the media's reporting this event and how a lot of people here are viewing it.

The maximum rate of descent this plane achieved was about 8,000 feet per minute. That is quite a steep descent. It also continuously increased its descent rate for about the first minute or so - imagine what a continuously steepening descent for over a minute would feel like to you. (After a minute or so, the descent continued but shallowed out.) And keep in mind, that's after the oxygen masks have dropped, which is not a normal thing for a passenger to experience either.

That said, 8,000 FPM is steep, but it's not exactly a "plunge" or a "dive", so certainly the media is being overly dramatic to get clicks. And at this point, you'd expect the passengers to know what happened and why, so some of their descriptions seem either taken out of context ("describe what you were thinking at the time" being a pretty common leading question) or maybe themselves intended to get attention. Maybe most of the passengers are just like "eh" but the media is only quoting those with harrowing tales of near death, however inaccurate they may be.

In any case, I sure would have been nervous myself until I heard from the crew, and I am a licensed pilot. This is not a normal thing for a passenger to experience, and you don't know what the actual problem is until you get that update from the crew.
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:45 pm

spacecadet wrote:
As is often the case with these things here, I think the reasonable response is somewhere in between how the media's reporting this event and how a lot of people here are viewing it.

The maximum rate of descent this plane achieved was about 8,000 feet per minute. That is quite a steep descent. It also continuously increased its descent rate for about the first minute or so - imagine what a continuously steepening descent for over a minute would feel like to you. (After a minute or so, the descent continued but shallowed out.) And keep in mind, that's after the oxygen masks have dropped, which is not a normal thing for a passenger to experience either.

That said, 8,000 FPM is steep, but it's not exactly a "plunge" or a "dive", so certainly the media is being overly dramatic to get clicks. And at this point, you'd expect the passengers to know what happened and why, so some of their descriptions seem either taken out of context ("describe what you were thinking at the time" being a pretty common leading question) or maybe themselves intended to get attention. Maybe most of the passengers are just like "eh" but the media is only quoting those with harrowing tales of near death, however inaccurate they may be.

In any case, I sure would have been nervous myself until I heard from the crew, and I am a licensed pilot. This is not a normal thing for a passenger to experience, and you don't know what the actual problem is until you get that update from the crew.


Having experienced a similar event in the mid 60’s on a TWA flight STL - PHX on a 727, it was anything but meh. It was terrifying. The story mirrored the experience I faced. You really have to be sitting there with masks dropping, crew shouting, and strangely, an eerie quiet punctuated by cries, sobs and “please help us lords”. Hard to over sensationalize. .
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1226
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:51 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
spacecadet wrote:
As is often the case with these things here, I think the reasonable response is somewhere in between how the media's reporting this event and how a lot of people here are viewing it.

The maximum rate of descent this plane achieved was about 8,000 feet per minute. That is quite a steep descent. It also continuously increased its descent rate for about the first minute or so - imagine what a continuously steepening descent for over a minute would feel like to you. (After a minute or so, the descent continued but shallowed out.) And keep in mind, that's after the oxygen masks have dropped, which is not a normal thing for a passenger to experience either.

That said, 8,000 FPM is steep, but it's not exactly a "plunge" or a "dive", so certainly the media is being overly dramatic to get clicks. And at this point, you'd expect the passengers to know what happened and why, so some of their descriptions seem either taken out of context ("describe what you were thinking at the time" being a pretty common leading question) or maybe themselves intended to get attention. Maybe most of the passengers are just like "eh" but the media is only quoting those with harrowing tales of near death, however inaccurate they may be.

In any case, I sure would have been nervous myself until I heard from the crew, and I am a licensed pilot. This is not a normal thing for a passenger to experience, and you don't know what the actual problem is until you get that update from the crew.


Having experienced a similar event in the mid 60’s on a TWA flight STL - PHX on a 727, it was anything but meh. It was terrifying. The story mirrored the experience I faced. You really have to be sitting there with masks dropping, crew shouting, and strangely, an eerie quiet punctuated by cries, sobs and “please help us lords”. Hard to over sensationalize. .

Not discounting your experience; but, in the 60's, the general population was much less informed than in 2019. So, if the media would stop sensationalizing those kind of events, we'd have much less scare when it happens, which would result in less potential injuries.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13993
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:02 pm

IPFreely wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Well if you want to go that route and use AV Hearld then Delta gives more ammo to work with:

http://avherald.com/h?search_term=Delta ... earch.y=11

DL continually makes it into the MSM because of how poor their ops handling and maintenance has been.


If I am counting correctly that is 10 incidents for AA and 59 incidents for DL in August.

It's definitely not a fleet size issue since AA (and Eagle) have more planes than DL (and Connection).

Part of it may be that Delta is flying an ancient fleet that tend to be less reliable. Or maybe part of it is DL cutting corners to maintain their "completion factor" statistics. Regardless, they need to get things under control before one of these incidents becomes more serious than they have been so far.


The problem, of course, is that these counts are almost assuredly incomplete. I was on a UA Express flight (operated by Expressjet) a few years ago that diverted for a pressurization issue and the event did not appear in Av Herald or, AFAIK, the mainstream media.

And the "flavor of the week" phenomenon is a very real thing. There is definite selection bias against certain industry participants, the identities of which tend to change over time. I see it every day in other industries.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
capitalflyer
Posts: 555
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:07 pm

CNN has the "Delta flight plunged 30,000 feet" headline under a picture of people just doing what they do on a plane, looking at their phones.That said, I would be terrified!! Not a great flier. But calm words from flight attendants and a little pure oxygen would fix me right up.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3592
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:32 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
spacecadet wrote:
As is often the case with these things here, I think the reasonable response is somewhere in between how the media's reporting this event and how a lot of people here are viewing it.

The maximum rate of descent this plane achieved was about 8,000 feet per minute. That is quite a steep descent. It also continuously increased its descent rate for about the first minute or so - imagine what a continuously steepening descent for over a minute would feel like to you. (After a minute or so, the descent continued but shallowed out.) And keep in mind, that's after the oxygen masks have dropped, which is not a normal thing for a passenger to experience either.

That said, 8,000 FPM is steep, but it's not exactly a "plunge" or a "dive", so certainly the media is being overly dramatic to get clicks. And at this point, you'd expect the passengers to know what happened and why, so some of their descriptions seem either taken out of context ("describe what you were thinking at the time" being a pretty common leading question) or maybe themselves intended to get attention. Maybe most of the passengers are just like "eh" but the media is only quoting those with harrowing tales of near death, however inaccurate they may be.

In any case, I sure would have been nervous myself until I heard from the crew, and I am a licensed pilot. This is not a normal thing for a passenger to experience, and you don't know what the actual problem is until you get that update from the crew.


Having experienced a similar event in the mid 60’s on a TWA flight STL - PHX on a 727, it was anything but meh. It was terrifying. The story mirrored the experience I faced. You really have to be sitting there with masks dropping, crew shouting, and strangely, an eerie quiet punctuated by cries, sobs and “please help us lords”. Hard to over sensationalize. .


Boeing offers. (offered) an option that told the passengers what was going and once again how to don the mask. This was activated at the time of the mask drop as I recall. Seems like a worthwhile option depending on costs involved.
 
Elementalism
Posts: 466
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:03 am

Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:01 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
B757Forever wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Every week DL is in the news for poor aircraft maintenance it seems. What is going on with DL’s ops?? A year or two ago you never would see consecutive stories about DL in the news unless it was about DL’s amazing service recovery and how they bring pizzas to the gate. Now it’s bad landings, emergency landings, trapping customers onboard for hours. Jeez....


I suppose it depends on your sources. This is a sample of AA's issues since August 1, roughly six weeks worth. I pulled this from Av Herald, not the MSM. I did not sample any other carriers though.

Incident American A321 near Phoenix on Sep 13th 2019, cabin pressurization problem
Incident American B763 near Columbus on Sep 16th 2019, engine oil filter message
Incident American A319 at Boston on Sep 11th 2019, hydraulic failure
Incident American B738 at Phoenix on Sep 12th 2019, rejected takeoff due to configuration warning
Incident American A319 at Charlotte on Sep 1st 2019, engine compressor stall
Incident American B752 at Shannon on Aug 22nd 2019, engine malfunction
Incident American A319 at Georgetown on Aug 21st 2019, runway excursion on backtrack
Incident American A321 near Abilene on Aug 21st 2019, fumes in cockpit
Incident American B763 near San Andres on Aug 12th 2019, hydraulic failure
Incident American A321 near Amarillo on Aug 2nd 2019, engine shut down in flight


Well if you want to go that route and use AV Hearld then Delta gives more ammo to work with:

http://avherald.com/h?search_term=Delta ... earch.y=11

DL continually makes it into the MSM because of how poor their ops handling and maintenance has been.


That poor A333, it's flap fairing filed for divorce. Who will get the children(A220)?

http://avherald.com/h?article=4cb06be7&opt=0
Last edited by Elementalism on Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
TVNWZ
Posts: 2201
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Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:17 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
spacecadet wrote:
As is often the case with these things here, I think the reasonable response is somewhere in between how the media's reporting this event and how a lot of people here are viewing it.

The maximum rate of descent this plane achieved was about 8,000 feet per minute. That is quite a steep descent. It also continuously increased its descent rate for about the first minute or so - imagine what a continuously steepening descent for over a minute would feel like to you. (After a minute or so, the descent continued but shallowed out.) And keep in mind, that's after the oxygen masks have dropped, which is not a normal thing for a passenger to experience either.

That said, 8,000 FPM is steep, but it's not exactly a "plunge" or a "dive", so certainly the media is being overly dramatic to get clicks. And at this point, you'd expect the passengers to know what happened and why, so some of their descriptions seem either taken out of context ("describe what you were thinking at the time" being a pretty common leading question) or maybe themselves intended to get attention. Maybe most of the passengers are just like "eh" but the media is only quoting those with harrowing tales of near death, however inaccurate they may be.

In any case, I sure would have been nervous myself until I heard from the crew, and I am a licensed pilot. This is not a normal thing for a passenger to experience, and you don't know what the actual problem is until you get that update from the crew.


Having experienced a similar event in the mid 60’s on a TWA flight STL - PHX on a 727, it was anything but meh. It was terrifying. The story mirrored the experience I faced. You really have to be sitting there with masks dropping, crew shouting, and strangely, an eerie quiet punctuated by cries, sobs and “please help us lords”. Hard to over sensationalize. .

Not discounting your experience; but, in the 60's, the general population was much less informed than in 2019. So, if the media would stop sensationalizing those kind of events, we'd have much less scare when it happens, which would result in less potential injuries.


If the same event happened today I would still be terrified. Informed is meaningless when you have no idea what’s going on
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:25 pm

TWA902fly wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
TWA902fly wrote:

Two of those are the same flight and not a mechanical issue.

'902


You clearly have reading comprehension issues.

A). None of those are the same flight. Please enlighten us and tell us which two are the same?

B). I clearly said in my first post “Now it’s bad landings, emergency landings, trapping customers onboard for hours.”

C). EVERY single one of the incidents I linked was mechanical related.


Yikes. Off to insults already.

Check your links for #3 and #4, both are about DL 975 JFK-LAX on the same day.

'902


The link was off, but the incident is real. https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com ... rport/amp/

And thanks for pointing that out as that’s brought to light ANOTHER DL incident on Aug 15th I didn’t initially see - https://nypost.com/2019/08/15/new-york- ... zdMMEwzY1M.

Great job DL! Keep up the stellar ops, you’re winning that race to the bottom!
 
mrbots
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:31 pm

Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:58 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
And thanks for pointing that out as that’s brought to light ANOTHER DL incident on Aug 15th I didn’t initially see - https://nypost.com/2019/08/15/new-york- ... zdMMEwzY1M.

Great job DL! Keep up the stellar ops, you’re winning that race to the bottom!



That's not even an incident, that's physics/thermodynamics. Fog in a cabin is not at all uncommon when it's hot and humid and happens to all airlines and airplanes. Though I've personnaly seen it more on A320s, maybe the A/C system runs at a lower temperature than the RJs and 737s or a complete coincidence. If the flight attendants are making jokes about it, you aren't in danger.
 
Elementalism
Posts: 466
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:03 am

Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:32 pm

It is interesting how much fog I see out of A320s and A321s AC while boarding compared to 737s. Not even sure I have ever seen fog from a 737. I may have seen it once in a 757 though.
 
FatCat
Posts: 962
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:02 pm

Re: DL2353 diverts to TPA after rapidly descending from FL 390

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:21 am

online "journalism" clickbait at its finest...

on the online news here you can read titles like "TERROR ON THE PLANE: people sending goodbye messages to their relatives..."

for an airline like delta having 20 issues a day is not a big deal... how many delta flights are flown every day?
for a small airline, idk, like air italy, having 5 issues a day is a big trouble... it's absolute vs. percentage
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