CO764
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Updated: XL Airways in judicial liquidation

Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:42 pm

It looks like the end is near for XL Airways France, a staple of French long-haul leisure travel since the mid-90s. This comes only two weeks after its short/medium-haul counterpart Aigle Azur went bust.

Due to its financial difficulties, we are deeply sorry to have to announce that XL Airways is stopping selling tickets effective today, 19th September 2019.


https://www.xl.com/us/actualit%C3%A9s

The airline currently operates 4 leased A330's, with orders for 2 A330neo's.
 
SCQ83
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:53 pm

Isn't it owned by the same people of La Compagnie?
 
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OA260
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:58 pm

Shame around decade after the UK version went the same way.
 
Blerg
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:07 pm

Were they the same company as XL that used to operate from the UK many years ago?
Seems like charter airlines are slowly dying which is a shame. I'm still sad an iconic brand such as Britannia is gone. :(
 
A380MSN004
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:10 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Isn't it owned by the same people of La Compagnie?


More or less yes. But ils two separate entity.

La Compagnie is on the road to make profits this year while XL was in trouble for a long time for various reason (strategy, pilots wage, competition, High lease rates, etc).
 
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RWA380
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:37 pm

Guess Paris-NYC goes to nine carriers as quickly as it reached ten, one week later is back down. Good luck French Bee, Corsair has been around awhile, hope they are still staying alive.
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samuelx88
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:31 pm

Is it because too many French Airlines (Corsair, French Bee and XL) only focus on flying from Paris rather than flying from other cities like Marseille, Lyon and Nice which saturates the market from Paris?
 
alan3
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:41 pm

Wasn't there an XL Germany and an XL Airways UK both of which also went bankrupt?

Monarch, Germania, XL...are holiday leisure carriers in trouble?
 
Varsity1
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:53 pm

A380MSN004 wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Isn't it owned by the same people of La Compagnie?


More or less yes. But ils two separate entity.

La Compagnie is on the road to make profits this year while XL was in trouble for a long time for various reason (strategy, pilots wage, competition, High lease rates, etc).


Pilots wage? The planes aren't even flown by XL pilots, but contractors! I heard one in Miami a couple months ago that spoke unintelligible English.

Weak management loves to blame pilots wages, yet its literally impossible in this instance. Your business model and strategy sucks, flat out.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
alasizon
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:55 pm

alan3 wrote:
Monarch, Germania, XL...are holiday leisure carriers in trouble?


Not so much in trouble as there are just too many of them for the pax volume to go around.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
ryan78
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:01 pm

One of my very first aviation memories as a child was at Punta Cana Airport in the DR in the mid 2000's. We had just flown in from Toronto and were walking from the aircraft to the terminal and I vividly remember walking past an XL A330 and being mesmerized by the livery & the colour of those engines. It was late in the evening and the sun was all but down but to this day I still remember those huge, deep blue "XL.com" titles and the beautiful tail design in that perfect twilight.

I've always been a fan of XL and their livery since then, it's sad to see them go. The French market is a very crowded place though and with only a handful of A330's I'm surprised they lasted that long.
 
CO764
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:25 pm

ryan78 wrote:
I vividly remember walking past an XL A330 and being mesmerized by the livery & the colour of those engines. It was late in the evening and the sun was all but down but to this day I still remember those huge, deep blue "XL.com" titles and the beautiful tail design in that perfect twilight.

I've always been a fan of XL and their livery since then, it's sad to see them go.


They also happen to have one of the coolest ATC callsigns ever: "Starway." I'm going to miss hearing it on LiveATC frequencies here in the US!
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:33 pm

Flight ops could be halted from Monday. Since more than a year the board has negotiated with several possible buyers, but as no agreement with any could be reached, the airline is forced to file for bankruptcy.

This reminds me of what happened twenty years ago or so with AOM and Air Liberté and the ensuing AirLib.
Last edited by SpaceshipDC10 on Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:33 pm

alasizon wrote:
alan3 wrote:
Monarch, Germania, XL...are holiday leisure carriers in trouble?


Not so much in trouble as there are just too many of them for the pax volume to go around.

Ryan, easyjet, Wizz, etc have crushed the charter market to in Europe, just like many did in the US in the 90’s/2000’s
 
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spinkid
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:29 pm

XL Airways France is a scheduled carrier, not a charter. I was quite happy with them when I needed to return to the U.S. on short notice from Paris. They also have covered the French Caribbean from cities other than Paris. They recently switched from JFK to EWR.

Reunion Island also will lose another carrier. I wonder which routes will get picked up by others.
 
Qantas59
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:42 pm

Did XL operate to SFO this summer?
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ClipperYankee
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:00 am

I flew them in July, 2018, JFK-CDG roundtrip, and the flights and crew were fine but whatever seats they had on the A333 were just awful. And I know they usually are so-so in most airlines' economy sections but these were terribly uncomfortable.
Pity that they had to shutdown, I would have flown them again despite the seats.
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Cointrin330
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:00 am

Looks like 4 A330s will soon be available to rent to cover for 787 engine issues for the carriers that still have them.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:04 am

samuelx88 wrote:
Is it because too many French Airlines (Corsair, French Bee and XL) only focus on flying from Paris rather than flying from other cities like Marseille, Lyon and Nice which saturates the market from Paris?


Actually XL tried to diversify by offering 1 stop flights to the french Indies with routings like CDG-MRS-RUN/FDF/PTP, CDG-BOD-PTP or CDG-NTE-PTP
 
c933103
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:11 am

Are they related to the Hainan group?
When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
 
SCQ83
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:37 am

Aigle Azur, XL, who is next? Thomas Cook.
 
SCQ83
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:38 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
Ryan, easyjet, Wizz, etc have crushed the charter market to in Europe, just like many did in the US in the 90’s/2000’s


XL only flew long-haul so 0 competition with Ryanair, easyJet or Wizz Air.
 
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ro1960
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:46 am

ClipperYankee wrote:
I flew them in July, 2018, JFK-CDG roundtrip, and the flights and crew were fine but whatever seats they had on the A333 were just awful. And I know they usually are so-so in most airlines' economy sections but these were terribly uncomfortable.
Pity that they had to shutdown, I would have flown them again despite the seats.


That’s 3-3-3 seating for you.
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CO764
Topic Author
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:57 am

Qantas59 wrote:
Did XL operate to SFO this summer?


Yep. Looks like a 2x weekly A333 until Sep 8th.
 
A380MSN004
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:50 am

c933103 wrote:
Are they related to the Hainan group?


Nope
 
A380MSN004
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:52 am

SCQ83 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Ryan, easyjet, Wizz, etc have crushed the charter market to in Europe, just like many did in the US in the 90’s/2000’s


XL only flew long-haul so 0 competition with Ryanair, easyJet or Wizz Air.


With The historical competitors it was fine but with the newcomers such as Norwegian, Level, French Bee + the disapeared ones like Primera, Wow it was way too much To handle.
 
rouelan
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:23 pm

And also dont forget the high level of taxes and charges in France. They were supposed to be lowered as there was apparently a consensus that French carriers could not sustain competition versus others. Result was... a new environmental tax ! Laurent Magnin was very vocal to express his anger. I feel sorry for him as he is a brave entrepreneur and a character; and of course for all the employees
 
runway23
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:27 pm

rouelan wrote:
And also dont forget the high level of taxes and charges in France. They were supposed to be lowered as there was apparently a consensus that French carriers could not sustain competition versus others. Result was... a new environmental tax ! Laurent Magnin was very vocal to express his anger. I feel sorry for him as he is a brave entrepreneur and a character; and of course for all the employees


He’ll need to find a new hat/cap now.
 
A380MSN004
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:33 pm

When the A330s NEO they ordered were supposed to be delivered?
 
rouelan
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:54 pm

Varsity1 wrote:



Pilots wage? The planes aren't even flown by XL pilots, but contractors!


I would not think so. They may have hired contractors but the vast majority of pilots are XL
 
Thibault973
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:22 pm

Heard the CEO on the radio this morning, He made some valid points. Apparently the airline was profitable for 12 consecutive years up to 2017 and needs 35 millions euros to continue operating. He particularly blamed Norwegian with whom they competed on their routes to New York, Miami/FLL, San Francisco/OAK and Los Angeles.
 
rouelan
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:39 pm

I think he puts the blame more on authorities that granted DY (technically non EU) to operate from Paris, rather than on DY.

Add: he is obviously moved by the situation and he vents his anger in many directions, sometimes not very fairly. He is human
 
rouelan
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:26 pm

runway23 wrote:

He’ll need to find a new hat/cap now.


:-)
By the way, he already changed it. Today, he is sporting a cap with only XL on it, instead of the usual one with both XL and La Compagnie.
I suppose he doesnt want anyone to think that La Compagnie is part of the debacle
 
AF022
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:17 am

Didn't they recently move their JFK operations to EWR? I thought I read that somewhere.
 
A380MSN004
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:40 am

AF022 wrote:
Didn't they recently move their JFK operations to EWR? I thought I read that somewhere.


yep last june they moved from JFK to EWR
 
hodavid1985
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:58 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Aigle Azur, XL, who is next? Thomas Cook.


Unfortunately you are right, they are on the edge now
 
MIflyer12
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:43 am

From Reuters:

PARIS (Reuters) - French airline XL Airways has called on Air France (AIRF.PA) to discuss a rescue deal to avert the collapse of the budget carrier that halted ticket sales and payments last week.

XL Airways, which has said it needs 35 million euros ($38.6 million) in fresh financing, requested in a statement on Sunday a meeting with Air France and the French authorities in the coming hours before a court is expected to put it into receivership on Monday.


We burned through all of our money - now let us burn through somebody else's money.

A carrier with just four aircraft is a joke. It has no economies of scale. It's like trying to make 500 iPhones rather than 50 million.
 
blueflyer
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:15 am

I think the true audience of that news report is the state, not Air France. Either that or they're delusional. In the report, the CEO is quoted as saying his airline could become Air France's low-cost offer on long-haul routes. I mean, he has to have heard of Joon.

I choose to view this latest effort as a message to the state that management has tried everything and nothing but state intervention will prevent a second French airline from collapsing in a span of weeks.
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A380MSN004
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:27 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
From Reuters:

PARIS (Reuters) - French airline XL Airways has called on Air France (AIRF.PA) to discuss a rescue deal to avert the collapse of the budget carrier that halted ticket sales and payments last week.

XL Airways, which has said it needs 35 million euros ($38.6 million) in fresh financing, requested in a statement on Sunday a meeting with Air France and the French authorities in the coming hours before a court is expected to put it into receivership on Monday.


We burned through all of our money - now let us burn through somebody else's money.

A carrier with just four aircraft is a joke. It has no economies of scale. It's like trying to make 500 iPhones rather than 50 million.


Well then Level is a good joke. They have 4 Long Haul acfts (2 A330-200 / 2 A330-300).

With the 2 A330 NEOS on order for XL they would be more competitive than the Level A330s CEO.

What Laurent Magnin wanted to do with the previous AF mgmt was more or less what Level is today.
 
rukundo
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:19 pm

Well then Level is a good joke. They have 4 Long Haul acfts (2 A330-200 / 2 A330-300).

With the 2 A330 NEOS on order for XL they would be more competitive than the Level A330s CEO.

What Laurent Magnin wanted to do with the previous AF mgmt was more or less what Level is today.


Level is member of IAG, which has lots of money. What about XL ? Their main shareholder, doesn't want to put more money. XL is looking for a new shareholder since one year, but no one is insterested

I work at Paris CDG, till early 2010s, XL was a great airline, but after, the CEO made too many mistakes. One of biggest was to bring too many capacity to serve French Overseas Territories, while competition is stiff (low yield, seasonal market). Few times after started their first service to Guadeloupe and Martinique, services became only seasonal.

-Overdensified planes (400 seats in an A330-300)
- minimum service
- Bad IFE
- Yield too low
- Stiff competition on some routes
- Shareholding too weak
-Small airline
 
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zkojq
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:43 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
A carrier with just four aircraft is a joke. It has no economies of scale. It's like trying to make 500 iPhones rather than 50 million.


I'm sure they never had any growth intentions.....And if they had 12 aircraft you'd be criticising them for chasing marketshare rather than profits. :roll:
First to fly the 787-9
 
B747Lighthouse
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:50 pm

After reading the news this morning . .. You think they will still stay in operation? I have flights with them at the end of October. . . :( :!:
 
SoEWR
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:59 pm

B747Lighthouse wrote:
After reading the news this morning . .. You think they will still stay in operation? I have flights with them at the end of October. . . :( :!:


I would be worried. However, they are owned by the same company as La Compagnie.
 
B747Lighthouse
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:58 pm

SoEWR wrote:
B747Lighthouse wrote:
After reading the news this morning . .. You think they will still stay in operation? I have flights with them at the end of October. . . :( :!:


I would be worried. However, they are owned by the same company as La Compagnie.



I did purchase the ticket threw Kiwi.com and they have responded ONCE but
Thank you for contacting Kiwi.com.

We understand the inconvenience that this announcement from XL Airways France which will affect your itinerary and plans. Kindly be advised that the airline has stopped selling tickets and all the flights were canceled. That said, this is now a Force Majeure, to which we can offer 2 options for the passengers, either Paid Alternative or You can apply for a Voluntary cancellation for the said flight.

If you want to have an alternative flight, we will offer a paid alternative. On the other hand, if you want to file for a possible refund, please go to your Manage My Booking, choose Refunds and Cancellations, that you can find at the top of the page under “Booking Confirmed”. Choose the refund “Proceed”. The process will take up to 30 days. Please be advised that we charge a 20 EUR handling fee to any voluntary cancellation and possible the refundable amount will solely depend on the airline's cancellation policy.

We certainly appreciate choosing Kiwi.com as your travel partner.

If you need anything else please don't hesitate to contact our 24/7 Customer Support. We will be more than happy to assist you.


After that I did call them also and they said they would offer me a alternative flight and I would have time to approve or deny it. They still have not offered or changed the flight yet, it has been about a day now. .
 
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Aesma
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:57 am

Very small airline, probably unknown to most French people, so I doubt there would be any political benefit in saving it. Especially when aviation is under fire for polluting too much.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
A380MSN004
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:29 pm

Aesma wrote:
Very small airline, probably unknown to most French people, so I doubt there would be any political benefit in saving it. Especially when aviation is under fire for polluting too much.


Cheap airline so French people know about :)
 
Varsity1
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:35 pm

WAY too many airlines in europe. We need about a dozen more to go under.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
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GCT64
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:28 pm

I noticed that XL Airways (the company / whole airline, not their flights) was advertised for sale in the Financial Times yesterday. IIRC, the date given for the deadline for submission of offers was 28 September.
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debonair
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:22 pm

Any updates?! According to their own webpage, last flights on September 29th - as no flights are listed for September 30th. :cry2:

However Orly lists all flights as ontime/scheduled for tomorrow...
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: XL Airways France stops selling tickets

Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:26 pm

debonair wrote:
Any updates?! According to their own webpage, last flights on September 29th - as no flights are listed for September 30th. :cry2:

However Orly lists all flights as ontime/scheduled for tomorrow...


Apparently Air France is not interested, and XL is still looking for a buyer.

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