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zeeth
Topic Author
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:57 am

Vietnam Airlines 787 forgets to lower gear approaching Melbourne

Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:18 pm

Oops. Is it this possible with a 787 without the aircraft warning you?
https://www.smh.com.au/business/consume ... 52t3j.html
Last edited by zeeth on Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: Air Vietnam 787 forgets to lower gear approaching Melbourne

Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:29 pm

All modern aircraft will pitch a fit the moment that you put the flaps into a landing detent without the gear down so there is practically no way to miss that (787 included). I think there is more to this story than simply the flight crew forgot to put it down.

If they did forget to put it down, we have much bigger issues than them forgetting the landing gear (I am pretty sure that this is not the case)

Edit 787's have a built in checklist system that can sense when the gear is down, so if somehow they actually got that low they wouldn't have been using checklists which is an insanely huge problem.
Last edited by SierraPacific on Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
alasizon
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Re: Air Vietnam 787 forgets to lower gear approaching Melbourne

Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:30 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
All modern aircraft will pitch a fit the moment that you put the flaps into a landing detent without the gear down so there is practically no way to miss that (787 included). I think there is more to this story than simply the flight crew forgot to put it down.

If they did forget to put it down, we have much bigger issues than them forgetting the landing gear (I am pretty sure that this is not the case)


Only way I see it possible to get down to 675' AGL and not have the plane pitching a fit is if they also don't extend the flaps enough.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
787SIN
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:00 am

Re: Vietnam Airlines 787 forgets to lower gear approaching Melbourne

Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:44 pm

The TAWS would have certainly started barking at them if they hadn’t put the gear down.

Pretty impressed by the speed of the ATSB investigation being launched. Must have been lodged by the ATC.

Hopefully the ATSB was able to request for the Voice and Data recordings from the EAFR before it departed MEL back to Vietnam. Otherwise the most crucial element will have been lost, the pilots discussions etc. on approach as even on a 787 only 120 mins is recorded.

The aircraft left 2.5 hours arriving so be surprised if they managed to.
 
KFTG
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Re: Vietnam Airlines 787 forgets to lower gear approaching Melbourne

Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:47 pm

Possible they had the landing gear override switch selected. In which case the TAWS wouldn't say a peep.
 
9Patch
Posts: 580
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Re: Vietnam Airlines 787 forgets to lower gear approaching Melbourne

Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:53 pm

The gist:

“During approach to land, Melbourne Air Traffic Control advised the crew that the aircraft’s landing gear was observed not to be extended. The crew initiated a missed approach,” the Australian Transport Safety Bureau said in a statement on Thursday.

Flight tracking website FlightRadar24 shows the service approaching Melbourne Airport just after 8am on Thursday morning. The flight dropped as low as 675 feet, the website indicated, and then rapidly ascended to 5000 feet after aborting the landing. The flight then circled the airport and landed safely just before 8.30am.
https://www.smh.com.au/business/consume ... 52t3j.html
 
DDR
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Re: Vietnam Airlines 787 forgets to lower gear approaching Melbourne

Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:57 pm

KFTG wrote:
Possible they had the landing gear override switch selected. In which case the TAWS wouldn't say a peep.


What is the purpose of the landing gear override switch? When would it be correctly used?
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Vietnam Airlines 787 forgets to lower gear approaching Melbourne

Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:00 pm

I’ve never heard of a landing gear override, just flap override for landings with flap malfunction.

GF
 
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777222LR
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Re: Vietnam Airlines 787 forgets to lower gear approaching Melbourne

Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:12 pm

DDR wrote:
KFTG wrote:
Possible they had the landing gear override switch selected. In which case the TAWS wouldn't say a peep.


What is the purpose of the landing gear override switch? When would it be correctly used?



I'd imagine a scenario where the gear will not lower, or there is good reason not to lower it (water landing?) and you want that warning to stop...
 
DDR
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Re: Vietnam Airlines 787 forgets to lower gear approaching Melbourne

Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:15 pm

777222LR wrote:
DDR wrote:
KFTG wrote:
Possible they had the landing gear override switch selected. In which case the TAWS wouldn't say a peep.


What is the purpose of the landing gear override switch? When would it be correctly used?



I'd imagine a scenario where the gear will not lower, or there is good reason not to lower it (water landing?) and you want that warning to stop...


Water landing makes total sense. Guess you would have enough going on without wanting to listen to the gear warning.
 
787SIN
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Re: Vietnam Airlines 787 forgets to lower gear approaching Melbourne

Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:17 pm

Would have a been a bit more of a conscious decision than on some other types as the gear override is not a switch. You have to go into the GPWS page on the Tuning Control Panel. The only physical switch left is the G/S Inhibit.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Vietnam Airlines 787 forgets to lower gear approaching Melbourne

Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:39 pm

KFTG wrote:
Possible they had the landing gear override switch selected. In which case the TAWS wouldn't say a peep.


What switch? Please expand on this and why would it have been selected? Are you a qulaified 787 pilot?
 
Max Q
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Re: Vietnam Airlines 787 forgets to lower gear approaching Melbourne

Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:44 am

I hate these aircraft that ‘pitch fits’
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
787SIN
Posts: 61
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Re: Vietnam Airlines 787 forgets to lower gear approaching Melbourne

Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:59 am

BravoOne wrote:
KFTG wrote:
Possible they had the landing gear override switch selected. In which case the TAWS wouldn't say a peep.


What switch? Please expand on this and why would it have been selected? Are you a qulaified 787 pilot?


787 - on the TCP you have three selections when you select GPWS along the top edge, flap override and the selection is override or norm, gear down same selections and terrain override same selection, you can also toggle between the left and right systems. Beyond the TCP controls there is as mentioned the G/S inhibit switch on the centre pedestal.

Often these are used if the system is giving a known spurious warning or if operation matters must.

Someone would have had to been playing before the flight with the selections or the flight crew did during the flight. If it was indeed not providing any warnings. The other possibility is that the systems were on MEL and it is possible to dispatch with both systems inoperative.
 
KFTG
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Re: Vietnam Airlines 787 forgets to lower gear approaching Melbourne

Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:03 am

I’m thinking 777. The gear override is on the landing gear panel, a physical switch.
 
airnorth
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:30 am

Re: Vietnam Airlines 787 forgets to lower gear approaching Melbourne

Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:59 am

787SIN wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
KFTG wrote:
Possible they had the landing gear override switch selected. In which case the TAWS wouldn't say a peep.


What switch? Please expand on this and why would it have been selected? Are you a qulaified 787 pilot?


787 - on the TCP you have three selections when you select GPWS along the top edge, flap override and the selection is override or norm, gear down same selections and terrain override same selection, you can also toggle between the left and right systems. Beyond the TCP controls there is as mentioned the G/S inhibit switch on the centre pedestal.

Often these are used if the system is giving a known spurious warning or if operation matters must.

Someone would have had to been playing before the flight with the selections or the flight crew did during the flight. If it was indeed not providing any warnings. The other possibility is that the systems were on MEL and it is possible to dispatch with both systems inoperative.


Thanks very much for the explanation!
 
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csturdiv
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Re: Vietnam Airlines 787 forgets to lower gear approaching Melbourne

Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:58 am

I hate it almost as much when a plane forgets to lower the landing gears as when I hate it when the pilots forget to lower it.
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD

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