Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
behramjee wrote:The block time and distance of this flight is longer than DEL-SFO so I don’t know how (if this turns out to be true) that AI is going to operate it with a full payload.
DEL-IAH is 17:15 block and 13,500km whilst DEL-SFO is 12,400km and 16:00 block and that flight is on the very edge of AI’s B77L capabilities.
9w748capt wrote:Wouldn't doubt this at all. Of course would be mostly for political reasons. If AI really wanted to serve the Texas-India market, wouldn't they start DFW instead?
Reminds me of the DAM-CCS route.
RainerBoeing777 wrote:behramjee wrote:The block time and distance of this flight is longer than DEL-SFO so I don’t know how (if this turns out to be true) that AI is going to operate it with a full payload.
DEL-IAH is 17:15 block and 13,500km whilst DEL-SFO is 12,400km and 16:00 block and that flight is on the very edge of AI’s B77L capabilities.
DOH-AKL is further than DEL-IAH and Qatar Airways operates with a Boeing 777-200LR of 259 passengers and the B77L of AI are 235 passengers of course who can make the route
RainerBoeing777 wrote:behramjee wrote:The block time and distance of this flight is longer than DEL-SFO so I don’t know how (if this turns out to be true) that AI is going to operate it with a full payload.
DEL-IAH is 17:15 block and 13,500km whilst DEL-SFO is 12,400km and 16:00 block and that flight is on the very edge of AI’s B77L capabilities.
DOH-AKL is further than DEL-IAH and Qatar Airways operates with a Boeing 777-200LR of 259 passengers and the B77L of AI are 235 passengers of course who can make the route
behramjee wrote:
It is best that AI operates to IAH 3wk B788 via a Star* hub in EU that they already serve to generate additional feeder traffic / incremental revenue or via a EU city which they already serve that presently does not have a nonstop link to IAH.
behramjee wrote:RainerBoeing777 wrote:behramjee wrote:
It is best that AI operates to IAH 3wk B788 via a Star* hub in EU that they already serve to generate additional feeder traffic / incremental revenue or via a EU city which they already serve that presently does not have a nonstop link to IAH.
YoungDon wrote:9w748capt wrote:Wouldn't doubt this at all. Of course would be mostly for political reasons. If AI really wanted to serve the Texas-India market, wouldn't they start DFW instead?
Reminds me of the DAM-CCS route.
I'm not sure why they would start DFW with no *A feed and (I believe) less demand to DEL. The Indian population there is big, but I'd imagine most traffic to and from India is VFR.
Interesting route if it happens. I won't be holding my breath though.
blr380 wrote:I have some credible sources indicating an announcement of IAH-DEL service from AI at the "Howdy Modi" event tomorrow. President Trump and Indian PM Modi are expected at the event tomorrow. Will wait for tomorrow's event to see if an announcement will be officially be made. It's been a while a long haul has been announced at IAH and being in * alliance might make this route work. Any thoughts.....
blr380 wrote:I have some credible sources indicating an announcement of IAH-DEL service from AI at the "Howdy Modi" event tomorrow. President Trump and Indian PM Modi are expected at the event tomorrow. Will wait for tomorrow's event to see if an announcement will be officially be made. It's been a while a long haul has been announced at IAH and being in * alliance might make this route work. Any thoughts.....
TWA902fly wrote:IAH is basically a backtrack for everywhere in the US except cities in the very south of Texas. I point this out because many people keep talking about feed from UA.
‘902
jfk777 wrote:If Air India ever gets any 787-9, they have many 787-8, then Houston could be viable. The logic for AI in Houston is a challenge, why would they fly there ? Because its a Star Alliance Hub or interest in Oil ? Since India is not a large oil producing country and there are plenty of Flights from Doha and Dubai to IAH their reasons for flying to IAH seem far fetched.
lightsaber wrote:Some one needs to walk me through Houston to India.
TWA902fly wrote:IAH is basically a backtrack for everywhere in the US except cities in the very south of Texas.
lightsaber wrote:YoungDon wrote:9w748capt wrote:Wouldn't doubt this at all. Of course would be mostly for political reasons. If AI really wanted to serve the Texas-India market, wouldn't they start DFW instead?
Reminds me of the DAM-CCS route.
I'm not sure why they would start DFW with no *A feed and (I believe) less demand to DEL. The Indian population there is big, but I'd imagine most traffic to and from India is VFR.
Interesting route if it happens. I won't be holding my breath though.
*A feed makes only a little sense. As UA will preferentially feed their own flights (this is not a JV) or LH at FRA.
QR seems to have poor load factors at IAH. While a growing US city, I don't see the money to justify this route. ULH requires premium traffic. From New York, San Francisco, and Lis Angeles, I see potential. Some one needs to walk me through Houston to India.
Lightsaber
Spiderguy252 wrote:RainerBoeing777 wrote:behramjee wrote:The block time and distance of this flight is longer than DEL-SFO so I don’t know how (if this turns out to be true) that AI is going to operate it with a full payload.
DEL-IAH is 17:15 block and 13,500km whilst DEL-SFO is 12,400km and 16:00 block and that flight is on the very edge of AI’s B77L capabilities.
DOH-AKL is further than DEL-IAH and Qatar Airways operates with a Boeing 777-200LR of 259 passengers and the B77L of AI are 235 passengers of course who can make the route
AI has just 3 77Ls, which are caught up in a perennial DEL-SFO-DEL and DEL-BOM-DEL run. Even if you were to chop off the BOM operation, it's not enough bandwidth to launch DEL-IAH at a desirable frequency you would think.
lightsaber wrote:YoungDon wrote:9w748capt wrote:Wouldn't doubt this at all. Of course would be mostly for political reasons. If AI really wanted to serve the Texas-India market, wouldn't they start DFW instead?
Reminds me of the DAM-CCS route.
I'm not sure why they would start DFW with no *A feed and (I believe) less demand to DEL. The Indian population there is big, but I'd imagine most traffic to and from India is VFR.
Interesting route if it happens. I won't be holding my breath though.
*A feed makes only a little sense. As UA will preferentially feed their own flights (this is not a JV) or LH at FRA.
QR seems to have poor load factors at IAH. While a growing US city, I don't see the money to justify this route. ULH requires premium traffic. From New York, San Francisco, and Lis Angeles, I see potential. Some one needs to walk me through Houston to India.
Lightsaber
TWA772LR wrote:lightsaber wrote:YoungDon wrote:
I'm not sure why they would start DFW with no *A feed and (I believe) less demand to DEL. The Indian population there is big, but I'd imagine most traffic to and from India is VFR.
Interesting route if it happens. I won't be holding my breath though.
*A feed makes only a little sense. As UA will preferentially feed their own flights (this is not a JV) or LH at FRA.
QR seems to have poor load factors at IAH. While a growing US city, I don't see the money to justify this route. ULH requires premium traffic. From New York, San Francisco, and Lis Angeles, I see potential. Some one needs to walk me through Houston to India.
Lightsaber
BOM has a good sized oil industry, so theres the front cabin. IAH-DEL is VFR heavy and has a ton of 1 stop options on foreign flag carriers from IAH as well as UA via EWR, and soon, SFO.
If UA starts any kind of relationship with AI than just base Star Alliance obligations, I can see IAH-BOM eventually.
910A wrote:Spiderguy252 wrote:RainerBoeing777 wrote:
DOH-AKL is further than DEL-IAH and Qatar Airways operates with a Boeing 777-200LR of 259 passengers and the B77L of AI are 235 passengers of course who can make the route
AI has just 3 77Ls, which are caught up in a perennial DEL-SFO-DEL and DEL-BOM-DEL run. Even if you were to chop off the BOM operation, it's not enough bandwidth to launch DEL-IAH at a desirable frequency you would think.
AI also uses the 77W on the DEL-SFO,that are operating both flights today ( Sept 21st). Tomorrow Sunday the 22nd the 77L and the 77W are being used.
YoungDon wrote:9w748capt wrote:Wouldn't doubt this at all. Of course would be mostly for political reasons. If AI really wanted to serve the Texas-India market, wouldn't they start DFW instead?
Reminds me of the DAM-CCS route.
I'm not sure why they would start DFW with no *A feed and (I believe) less demand to DEL. The Indian population there is big, but I'd imagine most traffic to and from India is VFR.
Interesting route if it happens. I won't be holding my breath though.
Spiderguy252 wrote:AI has just 3 77Ls, which are caught up in a perennial DEL-SFO-DEL and DEL-BOM-DEL run. Even if you were to chop off the BOM operation, it's not enough bandwidth to launch DEL-IAH at a desirable frequency you would think.
behramjee wrote:QR to AKL 259 pax - 259 bags
AI to IAH 235 pax - 470 bags
The extra 211 bags at 23KG means an extra 4853kg (nearly 5 tons) to uplift which makes a big difference to the operational payload capabilities.
edealinfo wrote:b) DEL - FRA - IAH (saves fuel, UA European hub; maybe Lufthansa will chip in some feed)
edealinfo wrote:
c) DEL - AUH - IAH (does the DEL to IAH routing cross close to the UAE)? If yes, AI could get fifth freedom flights at AUH (and additional feed from all AUH to India flights). I think when Jet struck a partnership with Etihad the India- Abu Dhabi bilateral provided for the 5th freedom. I am NOT100% sure of this and if anyone knows one way or the other, please let us know. AUH - IAH will also get premium oil and business traffic.
babastud wrote:I don't see this happening, of course this is AI so any dumb move could happen. IAH and Texas yes has lot's of Indians, outside of VFR traffic it's medical tech and research etc is big, yes there is oil, but India does not do much business with the USA in this field outside of tech support and some call center. IAH geographical location means it's not an ideal location to transfer, and the catchment area is smaller in this regard. It's a long flight and between the O+D and smaller then needed business ties, it does not make sense. There are tons of flights to EWR, JFK, SFO, ORD with easy one transfers onto DEL or other spots in India. This flight would be a loser non-stop and fifth-freedom? who knows but I doubt it. I don't see many folks willingly flying there family on AI to Rome for a vacation.
lightsaber wrote:TWA772LR wrote:lightsaber wrote:*A feed makes only a little sense. As UA will preferentially feed their own flights (this is not a JV) or LH at FRA.
QR seems to have poor load factors at IAH. While a growing US city, I don't see the money to justify this route. ULH requires premium traffic. From New York, San Francisco, and Lis Angeles, I see potential. Some one needs to walk me through Houston to India.
Lightsaber
BOM has a good sized oil industry, so theres the front cabin. IAH-DEL is VFR heavy and has a ton of 1 stop options on foreign flag carriers from IAH as well as UA via EWR, and soon, SFO.
If UA starts any kind of relationship with AI than just base Star Alliance obligations, I can see IAH-BOM eventually.
With UA competing to India, I doubt AI will see more than base *A trade from UA.
I'd like to see numbers on travel. Los Angeles is an import and software Management center. Not to mention Hollywood to Bollywood. I would be shocked if Houston has more business with Mumbai, but I'm willing to believe numbers.
Lightsaber
behramjee wrote:lightsaber wrote:TWA772LR wrote:BOM has a good sized oil industry, so theres the front cabin. IAH-DEL is VFR heavy and has a ton of 1 stop options on foreign flag carriers from IAH as well as UA via EWR, and soon, SFO.
If UA starts any kind of relationship with AI than just base Star Alliance obligations, I can see IAH-BOM eventually.
With UA competing to India, I doubt AI will see more than base *A trade from UA.
I'd like to see numbers on travel. Los Angeles is an import and software Management center. Not to mention Hollywood to Bollywood. I would be shocked if Houston has more business with Mumbai, but I'm willing to believe numbers.
Lightsaber
Please find below the past 12 months flown round trip pax data comparing IAH and DFW to the main Indian cities:
IAH vs DFW
BOM 67,000 vs 48,000
DEL 46,000 vs 41,000
MAA 22,000 vs 40,000
BLR 24,000 vs 39,000
HYD 30,000 vs 64,000
COK 17,000 vs 15,000
AMD 11,000 vs 8,000
Total is IAH 217,000 vs DFW 255,000...DFW wins largely due to the higher demand from Southern India (HYD BLR MAA) to the city !
Lastly, just for everyone's clarification, Etihad does not fly to Houston (IAH). In USA, EY flies to LAX ORD IAD and JFK only.
Faro wrote:Seems to be at the limits of the 77L's capabilities...and they only have 3 frames at present, all about 10 years old...can it work on a sustained, winter+summer basis?...
Faro
VTORD wrote:edealinfo wrote:b) DEL - FRA - IAH (saves fuel, UA European hub; maybe Lufthansa will chip in some feed)
IAH is a A380 destination for LH + a significant UA-LH JV / code share route. I don't see them providing much feed.edealinfo wrote:
c) DEL - AUH - IAH (does the DEL to IAH routing cross close to the UAE)? If yes, AI could get fifth freedom flights at AUH (and additional feed from all AUH to India flights). I think when Jet struck a partnership with Etihad the India- Abu Dhabi bilateral provided for the 5th freedom. I am NOT100% sure of this and if anyone knows one way or the other, please let us know. AUH - IAH will also get premium oil and business traffic.
I am not clear on the 5th freedom thing but even if it is the case won't the AUH-India-AUH portion constitute more seats? Is there space in the BASA for that?
Now assume that the provision doesn't exist. The question is will AUH allow the 5th freedom flight while seat additions are being denied to UAE? I highly doubt this is a viable / plausible option. Just my
mfe777 wrote:behramjee wrote:lightsaber wrote:With UA competing to India, I doubt AI will see more than base *A trade from UA.
I'd like to see numbers on travel. Los Angeles is an import and software Management center. Not to mention Hollywood to Bollywood. I would be shocked if Houston has more business with Mumbai, but I'm willing to believe numbers.
Lightsaber
Please find below the past 12 months flown round trip pax data comparing IAH and DFW to the main Indian cities:
IAH vs DFW
BOM 67,000 vs 48,000
DEL 46,000 vs 41,000
MAA 22,000 vs 40,000
BLR 24,000 vs 39,000
HYD 30,000 vs 64,000
COK 17,000 vs 15,000
AMD 11,000 vs 8,000
Total is IAH 217,000 vs DFW 255,000...DFW wins largely due to the higher demand from Southern India (HYD BLR MAA) to the city !
Lastly, just for everyone's clarification, Etihad does not fly to Houston (IAH). In USA, EY flies to LAX ORD IAD and JFK only.
Thanks for the numbers. I knew DFW had more India traffic than IAH. DFW is also ~200nm close to DEL, saving a little time on an ultra long flight. Air India has discussed DFW in the past. I wonder if they'd ever consider a tag on flight, or just flying to DFW which is closer an relying on UA's numerous daily IAH-DFW flights to feed IAH traffic there.
Either way, they are going to struggle against EK and QR which have loyal followings in both DFW and IAH to the subcontinent.
edealinfo wrote:jfk777 wrote:If Air India ever gets any 787-9, they have many 787-8, then Houston could be viable. The logic for AI in Houston is a challenge, why would they fly there ? Because its a Star Alliance Hub or interest in Oil ? Since India is not a large oil producing country and there are plenty of Flights from Doha and Dubai to IAH their reasons for flying to IAH seem far fetched.
Ever heard of a political promise? Well, presumably one will be made tomorrow and then a solution would be found to make it work, no matter what. I think Air India and the Government of India have already figured it out. Note that India has sent equipment to orbit the moon and Mars. A flight to IAH would be nothing in comparison.
bravotango75 wrote:Seriously, Houston....? What about here in Boston, better educated, more affluent...HARVARD...Boston College....Again, HOUSTON....?
YoungDon wrote:bravotango75 wrote:Seriously, Houston....? What about here in Boston, better educated, more affluent...HARVARD...Boston College....Again, HOUSTON....?
I mean, Houston has a bigger regional GDP, a bigger Indian population, more business links with India than the Boston area. Not sure what Harvard or education levels have to do with anything. Houston is far more international than Boston is.
IAH-DEL is a marginal route in my mind, but it's far better than BOS-DEL. But, I get it, plenty of people aren't fans of Houston and that's ok.
jfk777 wrote:edealinfo wrote:jfk777 wrote:
Air India is better served flying to United hubs in SFO, ORD, IAD and Newark.
behramjee wrote:RainerBoeing777 wrote:behramjee wrote:The block time and distance of this flight is longer than DEL-SFO so I don’t know how (if this turns out to be true) that AI is going to operate it with a full payload.
DEL-IAH is 17:15 block and 13,500km whilst DEL-SFO is 12,400km and 16:00 block and that flight is on the very edge of AI’s B77L capabilities.
DOH-AKL is further than DEL-IAH and Qatar Airways operates with a Boeing 777-200LR of 259 passengers and the B77L of AI are 235 passengers of course who can make the route
You seem to be forgetting QR's AKL has a 1 piece baggage policy whilst AI for USA has a 2 piece allowance.
QR to AKL 259 pax - 259 bags
AI to IAH 235 pax - 470 bags
The extra 211 bags at 23KG means an extra 4853kg (nearly 5 tons) to uplift which makes a big difference to the operational payload capabilities.
It is best that AI operates to IAH 3wk B788 via a Star* hub in EU that they already serve to generate additional feeder traffic / incremental revenue or via a EU city which they already serve that presently does not have a nonstop link to IAH.
behramjee wrote:lightsaber wrote:TWA772LR wrote:BOM has a good sized oil industry, so theres the front cabin. IAH-DEL is VFR heavy and has a ton of 1 stop options on foreign flag carriers from IAH as well as UA via EWR, and soon, SFO.
If UA starts any kind of relationship with AI than just base Star Alliance obligations, I can see IAH-BOM eventually.
With UA competing to India, I doubt AI will see more than base *A trade from UA.
I'd like to see numbers on travel. Los Angeles is an import and software Management center. Not to mention Hollywood to Bollywood. I would be shocked if Houston has more business with Mumbai, but I'm willing to believe numbers.
Lightsaber
Please find below the past 12 months flown round trip pax data comparing IAH and DFW to the main Indian cities:
IAH vs DFW
BOM 67,000 vs 48,000
DEL 46,000 vs 41,000
MAA 22,000 vs 40,000
BLR 24,000 vs 39,000
HYD 30,000 vs 64,000
COK 17,000 vs 15,000
AMD 11,000 vs 8,000
Total is IAH 217,000 vs DFW 255,000...DFW wins largely due to the higher demand from Southern India (HYD BLR MAA) to the city !
Lastly, just for everyone's clarification, Etihad does not fly to Houston (IAH). In USA, EY flies to LAX ORD IAD and JFK only.
LAXdude1023 wrote:I’m still going with no AI announcement will take place.
behramjee wrote:lightsaber wrote:TWA772LR wrote:BOM has a good sized oil industry, so theres the front cabin. IAH-DEL is VFR heavy and has a ton of 1 stop options on foreign flag carriers from IAH as well as UA via EWR, and soon, SFO.
If UA starts any kind of relationship with AI than just base Star Alliance obligations, I can see IAH-BOM eventually.
With UA competing to India, I doubt AI will see more than base *A trade from UA.
I'd like to see numbers on travel. Los Angeles is an import and software Management center. Not to mention Hollywood to Bollywood. I would be shocked if Houston has more business with Mumbai, but I'm willing to believe numbers.
Lightsaber
Please find below the past 12 months flown round trip pax data comparing IAH and DFW to the main Indian cities:
IAH vs DFW
BOM 67,000 vs 48,000
DEL 46,000 vs 41,000
MAA 22,000 vs 40,000
BLR 24,000 vs 39,000
HYD 30,000 vs 64,000
COK 17,000 vs 15,000
AMD 11,000 vs 8,000
Total is IAH 217,000 vs DFW 255,000...DFW wins largely due to the higher demand from Southern India (HYD BLR MAA) to the city !
Lastly, just for everyone's clarification, Etihad does not fly to Houston (IAH). In USA, EY flies to LAX ORD IAD and JFK only.
edealinfo wrote:LAXdude1023 wrote:I’m still going with no AI announcement will take place.
If that happens I would take off my cowboy hat and salute the PM for placing national interests over popular-ism.
Either way, though, he wins. If the flight it on, he scores for creating an environment to make it happen. If he doesn't announce it, he scores even more points for standing by sound economic principles. Which will ultimately, triumph? I read that most Indian TV news channels are covering the Howdy event - live. Those watching in India don't care if the flight is on or not but do care how the audience reacts to the PM!