rising
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Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:05 am

For example, if a Southwest or UPS pilot was catching a ride home on an American A320, and there was an illness or emergency, could he/she help fly the rest of the flight or would the other pilot just bring it down solo?

Being safety is the end all I would assume, and hope, yes they could help, but airlines/airplanes have different procedures. I see a lot of uniformed pilots from other carriers on flights and always wondered.
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YYZatcboy
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:11 am

They could help by working the radios, but the other pilot would be in command and do the flying.
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T18
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:15 am

In an emergency the PIC has the authority to do pretty much anything they feel is needed, so I would think drafting a jumpseat crewmember to help work the radios could be possible. But I do not think for myself on either side of it would want to take the responsibility of pilot flying on an aircraft or essp type that I am not trained to fly. I can think of cases deadhead or jumpseat crew of the same carrier have assisted in an emergency ( UAL 2432 for example) but I do not know of any cases of crew from another carrier assisting in such a manner.
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IPFreely
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:35 am

A USAF pilot, flying as a passenger, was recruited to assist with landing a United flight when one of the pilots had a medical emergency a few years ago:

https://www.cnn.com/2014/06/03/travel/7 ... index.html

I think the same thing would have happened had one of the passengers been a pilot from another carrier instead of the Air Force.
 
asuflyer
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:53 am

Yes it has happened before. I USAF pilot once helped a UA 737 land, and a North American Airlines pilot helped land a LH 747 both in medical emergencies affecting the crew.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:13 am

So in those movies where you see both pilots incapacitated, a passenger who never flew a plane get up and lands the plane with help from the tower, is a load of nonsense.
 
ilovelamp
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:25 am

Dieuwer wrote:
So in those movies where you see both pilots incapacitated, a passenger who never flew a plane get up and lands the plane with help from the tower, is a load of nonsense.


That’s why it’s in a movie...
 
32andBelow
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:27 am

Dieuwer wrote:
So in those movies where you see both pilots incapacitated, a passenger who never flew a plane get up and lands the plane with help from the tower, is a load of nonsense.

It’s happened before for GA aircraft. And you’d be talked down by center or tracon most likely. Not tower.
 
Maverick623
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:40 am

In short, yes, they would almost certainly be invited up front (if they weren't there already) to help. How much they would do would depend largely on the judgement of both the PIC and the pilot hitching a ride. Using the radio and speed callouts would be almost a certainty.
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spinkid
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:01 am

Only if both the pilot and copilot had the fish for dinner.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:04 am

Cough cough Joe Patroni cough...
 
socko
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:07 am

Ted Striker did it!!! Hahaha
 
Dominion301
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:25 am

asuflyer wrote:
Yes it has happened before. I USAF pilot once helped a UA 737 land, and a North American Airlines pilot helped land a LH 747 both in medical emergencies affecting the crew.


I remember about a decade ago the Captain of a CO 757 was incapacitated. The F/O took over, but a passenger with their private/general aviation licence assisted with the checklists for landing.
 
DrRumack
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:34 am

spinkid wrote:
Only if both the pilot and copilot had the fish for dinner.


Hey, that's my line.
 
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pilotkev1
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:44 am

Anyone in the Flight Deck jumpseat(s) is considered a crew member, and should be knowledgable enough to assist and/or recognize an emergency situation.

Theoretically someone in the back can come to help, but good chance the airplane will be on the ground too fast to have a chance to ask for/offer assistance.
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STLflyer
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:51 am

Dieuwer wrote:
So in those movies where you see both pilots incapacitated, a passenger who never flew a plane get up and lands the plane with help from the tower, is a load of nonsense.


Surely you can’t be serious.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:00 am

socko wrote:
Ted Striker did it!!! Hahaha

Paging Ted Striker to the white courtesy phone...


Lightsaber
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KBUF
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:09 am

spinkid wrote:
Only if both the pilot and copilot had the fish for dinner.


Yes, yes, I remember. I had lasagna.
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ltbewr
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:27 am

We had a few weeks ago where an off-duty pilot flying with his family for holiday ended up being a co-pilot for his flight (same airline). With only 2 in a cockpit and one disabled, a qualified commercial pilot on board on a flight would be acceptable and indeed desirable so long as had a copy of their license, sober and not tired.
 
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NearMiss
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:29 am

STLflyer wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
So in those movies where you see both pilots incapacitated, a passenger who never flew a plane get up and lands the plane with help from the tower, is a load of nonsense.


Surely you can’t be serious.


I am serious...And don't call me Shirley
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md11sdf
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:32 am

I wonder..... Is it possible that "Rising" had no idea that his post would turn into an "AIRPLANE!" quote fest? I wish it were possible to do 'up-votes' on comments.
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FlyHossD
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:30 am

IPFreely wrote:
A USAF pilot, flying as a passenger, was recruited to assist with landing a United flight when one of the pilots had a medical emergency a few years ago:

https://www.cnn.com/2014/06/03/travel/7 ... index.html

I think the same thing would have happened had one of the passengers been a pilot from another carrier instead of the Air Force.


Dominion301 wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
Yes it has happened before. I USAF pilot once helped a UA 737 land, and a North American Airlines pilot helped land a LH 747 both in medical emergencies affecting the crew.


I remember about a decade ago the Captain of a CO 757 was incapacitated. The F/O took over, but a passenger with their private/general aviation licence assisted with the checklists for landing.


IIRC, in the CO 757 incident, it was the new captain getting IOE who had the medical problem (and sadly passed away), the check airman/captain in the right seat had the flight attendants page for any pilots onboard. The only pilot onboard was a private pilot. As I recall, he received an award from CO-ALPA for his assistance.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:38 am

I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:41 am

Flight attendant (Elaine) explaining all the craziness: There's no reason to become alarmed, and we hope you'll enjoy the rest of your flight. By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
 
cesar666cu
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:57 am

Well if the two pilots are incapacitated, I’d rather have whatever pilots landing the airplane than an onboard doctor.
 
YIMBY
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:48 am

Modern planes have an autoland capacity. Isn't there any emergency autoland button to be pressed by any crew member to make the plane to land in any suitable airfield within its reach, if no one onboard can fly the plane? (Or even do it automatically, if no one seems to be in control)
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:02 am

YIMBY wrote:
Modern planes have an autoland capacity. Isn't there any emergency autoland button to be pressed by any crew member to make the plane to land in any suitable airfield within its reach, if no one onboard can fly the plane? (Or even do it automatically, if no one seems to be in control)


Not yet.

There is something called autoland, however before you're able to use it a lot of work needs to be done in bringing the plane in a position in front of the runway and putting the navigation radios at the right frequency and such. And all through this, the communication with ATC must be kept alive so that they know the intentions of whoever is flying the plane. It's certainly not as simple as pressing a button. In the end it is, but that button only works if it's configured the right way. And of course there are certain things that aren't handled by autoland, such as lowering the flaps and the landing gear.

What you're describing might one day become reality, however so far it isn't.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:58 am

I'd rather do a single pilot landing - very much a non-event - than have a non-company or worse, non-type-rated pilot assist me in case of incapacitation of the other crew. They'd be more of a distraction than of any real help.
A company, type-rated pilot travelling in the cabin would of course be of help, provided he/she hasn't been drinking.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
BA777FO
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:04 am

Francoflier wrote:
I'd rather do a single pilot landing - very much a non-event - than have a non-company or worse, non-type-rated pilot assist me in case of incapacitation of the other crew. They'd be more of a distraction than of any real help.
A company, type-rated pilot travelling in the cabin would of course be of help, provided he/she hasn't been drinking.


My thoughts exactly. We train incapacitation in the sim fairly regularly, I'd find someone else a) a potential distraction and b) a potential security threat. I'd rather keep flight deck access to the rostered crew.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:56 am

I think they would make announcements in this order:

"Are there any pilots from our airline on board?"
"Are there any pilots that know how to fly a 747?"
"Are there any pilots on board at all?"
"Is there anyone here that has played Flight Simulator a lot?"
 
Draken21fx
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:49 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
I think they would make announcements in this order:

"Are there any pilots from our airline on board?"
"Are there any pilots that know how to fly a 747?"
"Are there any pilots on board at all?"
"Is there anyone here that has played Flight Simulator a lot?"
"Does anyone have an account on Airliners.net"


Fixed it for you a bit :D
 
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exFWAOONW
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:20 am

ilovelamp wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
So in those movies where you see both pilots incapacitated, a passenger who never flew a plane get up and lands the plane with help from the tower, is a load of nonsense.


That’s why it’s in a movie...

This situation may not have a happy ending in real life. Joe Patroni isn’t on every flight, just in case he’s needed.
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
oceanvikram
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:38 am

I hope so.
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o0OOO0oChris
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:41 am

It happend on LH403:
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=548047
He wasn' t even rated for the 747.
 
pl4nekr4zy
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:44 am

No. If a Southwest 737 has an emergency, a United 737 pilot (for example) absolutely canNOT fly it. The cockpits have completely different layouts and instrumentation, and the UA 737 pilot would be unfamiliar with SW's setup. It is physically impossible for anyone other than a Southwest 737 pilot to fly a Southwest 737. It simply CANNOT happen. Even in an emergency, where the crew can use any and all available resources, no pilot can fly another airline's aircraft. It just can't happen.
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Faro
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:16 pm

An emergency is just that, an emergency...no rules or regulations apply...PIC to do anything and everything possible to get down safely on the runway...


faro
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uta999
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:34 pm

I would argue that a single pilot in the cockpit was more dangerous and stressful, than asking for help from someone in the back. Even cabin crew as a last resort, just to bounce checklists / speed / alt off.

You’re not asking them to fly the plane, but just be an extra pair of ears.
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pl4nekr4zy
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:45 pm

Boeing and Airbus customize the physics and flight characteristics for their respective customers. Types are not interchangeable between different airlines, and therefore can only be flown by flight crew trained specifically on a given airline's fleet.
"Don't forget to bring a towel!"
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:11 pm

pl4nekr4zy wrote:
Boeing and Airbus customize the physics and flight characteristics for their respective customers. Types are not interchangeable between different airlines, and therefore can only be flown by flight crew trained specifically on a given airline's fleet.


How, exactly, does an AA 738 have different “physics” from a DL or UA 738?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
YIMBY
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:39 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
YIMBY wrote:
Modern planes have an autoland capacity. Isn't there any emergency autoland button to be pressed by any crew member to make the plane to land in any suitable airfield within its reach, if no one onboard can fly the plane? (Or even do it automatically, if no one seems to be in control)


Not yet.

There is something called autoland, however before you're able to use it a lot of work needs to be done in bringing the plane in a position in front of the runway and putting the navigation radios at the right frequency and such. And all through this, the communication with ATC must be kept alive so that they know the intentions of whoever is flying the plane. It's certainly not as simple as pressing a button. In the end it is, but that button only works if it's configured the right way. And of course there are certain things that aren't handled by autoland, such as lowering the flaps and the landing gear.

What you're describing might one day become reality, however so far it isn't.


Why not?

These are rather straight-forward things, just an extension of the standard autopilot. The autopilot can shout in the radio that here I come, come what may. The others then better to avoid.
Of course there can be a bidirectional link, kind of remote control, at least to give landing clearance. Certainly not all airports have to be prepared to receive an unflown aircraft, but at lest some on the route.

It may not be perfect but certainly better than let an amateur to fly the plane, with or without ground instructions.
 
ferminbrif
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:39 pm

If so, I’m wondering how can the crew members be sure that someone is a qualified pilot to that aircraft? :talktothehand: :airplane:
 
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Vio
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:54 pm

I can't think of a single (western) airliner that can not be flown by a single pilot. Whether it's the Captain or the F/O, it can be done. Obviously it's an emergency and ATC will easy their workload, so really, unless something else (mechanically) is wrong with the aircraft, I don't see the need to ask for the assistance of another pilot. Of course, each case is different and that would be the discretion of the pilot.
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
CRJ200flyer
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:04 pm

There is a whole lot of misinformation going on in this thread, and varying scenarios.

As an airline pilot, if there’s another airline pilot on our aircraft, and we lose a crew member, then of course I will ask him or her to help. Even if the person is rated on a different aircraft, they can still help with checklists and radios, communicate with flight attendants, and be another set of eyes.

In regards to how we could verify what aircraft they are trained to fly, it’s stated on their license documents. If they’re jumpseating, we’ve normally already talked about it when they said hello (or we just know, like if they fly for a single type airline like Spirit or Southwest).
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:33 pm

pl4nekr4zy wrote:
No. If a Southwest 737 has an emergency, a United 737 pilot (for example) absolutely canNOT fly it. The cockpits have completely different layouts and instrumentation, and the UA 737 pilot would be unfamiliar with SW's setup. It is physically impossible for anyone other than a Southwest 737 pilot to fly a Southwest 737. It simply CANNOT happen. Even in an emergency, where the crew can use any and all available resources, no pilot can fly another airline's aircraft. It just can't happen.


pl4nekr4zy wrote:
Boeing and Airbus customize the physics and flight characteristics for their respective customers. Types are not interchangeable between different airlines, and therefore can only be flown by flight crew trained specifically on a given airline's fleet.


None of this is true. At all.
Gone are the days when cockpits could be largely customized by customers. A 737 NG cockpit will look very much the same regardless of which airline operates it, save for a few customizable features and options.
By and large, a 737 NG (or any other current type) rated pilot would very quickly feel at home in the cockpit of the 737 flown by any other operator.

As for flying characteristics, they are essentially identical save for slight differences between versions (737-700 / -800 / -900, etc). 'Flight characteristics' are not customized to the airline's taste.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:36 pm

pl4nekr4zy wrote:
No. If a Southwest 737 has an emergency, a United 737 pilot (for example) absolutely canNOT fly it. The cockpits have completely different layouts and instrumentation, and the UA 737 pilot would be unfamiliar with SW's setup. It is physically impossible for anyone other than a Southwest 737 pilot to fly a Southwest 737. It simply CANNOT happen. Even in an emergency, where the crew can use any and all available resources, no pilot can fly another airline's aircraft. It just can't happen.


Wrong, wrong, wrong.

I've ridden in WN jumpseats - the only difference that I can remember between the UA (including back to the CO days) and WN was the placement of the audio panels.

Did you not read that UA will be getting 19 737-700s from WN? There will be very little - if any - changes in the cockpit.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:37 pm

pl4nekr4zy wrote:
No. If a Southwest 737 has an emergency, a United 737 pilot (for example) absolutely canNOT fly it. The cockpits have completely different layouts and instrumentation, and the UA 737 pilot would be unfamiliar with SW's setup. It is physically impossible for anyone other than a Southwest 737 pilot to fly a Southwest 737. It simply CANNOT happen. Even in an emergency, where the crew can use any and all available resources, no pilot can fly another airline's aircraft. It just can't happen.



Just about everything you have stated is wrong but I digress.
 
PDX88
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:56 pm

pl4nekr4zy wrote:
No. If a Southwest 737 has an emergency, a United 737 pilot (for example) absolutely canNOT fly it. The cockpits have completely different layouts and instrumentation, and the UA 737 pilot would be unfamiliar with SW's setup. It is physically impossible for anyone other than a Southwest 737 pilot to fly a Southwest 737. It simply CANNOT happen. Even in an emergency, where the crew can use any and all available resources, no pilot can fly another airline's aircraft. It just can't happen.


pl4nekr4zy wrote:
Boeing and Airbus customize the physics and flight characteristics for their respective customers. Types are not interchangeable between different airlines, and therefore can only be flown by flight crew trained specifically on a given airline's fleet.


I got a good laugh out of reading this. I hope you're just trolling and not being serious.
 
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Erebus
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:57 pm

Yeah they can, but it might be an entirely different kind of flying, altogether.
 
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Vio
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:58 pm

CRJ200flyer wrote:
There is a whole lot of misinformation going on in this thread, and varying scenarios.

As an airline pilot, if there’s another airline pilot on our aircraft, and we lose a crew member, then of course I will ask him or her to help. Even if the person is rated on a different aircraft, they can still help with checklists and radios, communicate with flight attendants, and be another set of eyes.

In regards to how we could verify what aircraft they are trained to fly, it’s stated on their license documents. If they’re jumpseating, we’ve normally already talked about it when they said hello (or we just know, like if they fly for a single type airline like Spirit or Southwest).


First of all, what will one do with the incapacitated pilot? How incapacitated is he or she? What is wrong? From our training, we secure the incapacitated crew member by locking his or her seatbelt, pull the seat back, etc. What exactly could one do? Remove this individual from the seat? How? Who will come in the cockpit to do that? And why? I can land my plane single pilot, no problem. I would communicate the issues with the back and follow company SOPs.

I may ask for help if I knew a COMPANY pilot is on board, but that's it. What can they (FAs) do? Make a PA "One of our pilots is passed out, so anyone with any flight experience please raise your hand!" Timmy back there is an expert Flight Sim player and starts going crazy! "ME ME ME!"

IN MOST CASES It's safer, faster and more appropriate to carry out a single pilot landing at the nearest suitable airport.
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:59 pm

pl4nekr4zy wrote:
No. If a Southwest 737 has an emergency, a United 737 pilot (for example) absolutely canNOT fly it. The cockpits have completely different layouts and instrumentation, and the UA 737 pilot would be unfamiliar with SW's setup. It is physically impossible for anyone other than a Southwest 737 pilot to fly a Southwest 737. It simply CANNOT happen. Even in an emergency, where the crew can use any and all available resources, no pilot can fly another airline's aircraft. It just can't happen.


Not wanting to be too harsh - but this is BS.

Even though some Southwest 737NG (used to) have the "Classic" instrumentation layout on the PFD, it doesn't mean a 737NG type rated pilot can't fly it or be of assistance. It is up the the pilot in command to make the judgement call.

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Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos