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DALMD80
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:02 pm

STLflyer wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
So in those movies where you see both pilots incapacitated, a passenger who never flew a plane get up and lands the plane with help from the tower, is a load of nonsense.


Surely you can’t be serious.

I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.
The 757-200 with Rolls Royce engines in the US Airways livery is the ultimate in airliner beauty,
 
BravoOne
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:05 pm

Erebus wrote:
Yeah they can, but it might be an entirely different kind of flying, altogether.



Can you expand on these difference you speak of?
 
DALMD80
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:05 pm

ferminbrif wrote:
If so, I’m wondering how can the crew members be sure that someone is a qualified pilot to that aircraft? :talktothehand: :airplane:

If there's an emergency this dire, anyone who knows how to fly a plane will be a lifesaver.
The 757-200 with Rolls Royce engines in the US Airways livery is the ultimate in airliner beauty,
 
STLflyer
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:31 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Erebus wrote:
Yeah they can, but it might be an entirely different kind of flying, altogether.



Can you expand on these difference you speak of?


It’s an entirely different kind of flying.
 
musman9853
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:36 pm

spinkid wrote:
Only if both the pilot and copilot had the fish for dinner.


I say let em crash.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
musman9853
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:38 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
pl4nekr4zy wrote:
Boeing and Airbus customize the physics and flight characteristics for their respective customers. Types are not interchangeable between different airlines, and therefore can only be flown by flight crew trained specifically on a given airline's fleet.


How, exactly, does an AA 738 have different “physics” from a DL or UA 738?


aa went for the low-grav option to increase mtow
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:49 pm

STLflyer wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Erebus wrote:
Yeah they can, but it might be an entirely different kind of flying, altogether.



Can you expand on these difference you speak of?


It’s an entirely different kind of flying.


I don't know where you came up with that idea but it remains the same kind of flying regardless of who owns the airplane. Maybe something is getting lost in the translation here?
 
Adipocere
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:05 pm

IIRC, Didn’t the crew get assistance from a first class passenger on UA232?
 
IPFreely
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:12 pm

Francoflier wrote:
None of this is true. At all.
Gone are the days when cockpits could be largely customized by customers. A 737 NG cockpit will look very much the same regardless of which airline operates it, save for a few customizable features and options.
By and large, a 737 NG (or any other current type) rated pilot would very quickly feel at home in the cockpit of the 737 flown by any other operator.

As for flying characteristics, they are essentially identical save for slight differences between versions (737-700 / -800 / -900, etc). 'Flight characteristics' are not customized to the airline's taste.


FlyHossD wrote:
Wrong, wrong, wrong.

I've ridden in WN jumpseats - the only difference that I can remember between the UA (including back to the CO days) and WN was the placement of the audio panels.

Did you not read that UA will be getting 19 737-700s from WN? There will be very little - if any - changes in the cockpit.


BravoOne wrote:
Just about everything you have stated is wrong but I digress.


Image
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:27 pm

STLflyer wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Erebus wrote:
Yeah they can, but it might be an entirely different kind of flying, altogether.



Can you expand on these difference you speak of?


It’s an entirely different kind of flying.


It’s an entirely different kind of flying.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
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CFM565A1
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:31 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
pl4nekr4zy wrote:
No. If a Southwest 737 has an emergency, a United 737 pilot (for example) absolutely canNOT fly it. The cockpits have completely different layouts and instrumentation, and the UA 737 pilot would be unfamiliar with SW's setup. It is physically impossible for anyone other than a Southwest 737 pilot to fly a Southwest 737. It simply CANNOT happen. Even in an emergency, where the crew can use any and all available resources, no pilot can fly another airline's aircraft. It just can't happen.


Not wanting to be too harsh - but this is BS.

Even though some Southwest 737NG (used to) have the "Classic" instrumentation layout on the PFD, it doesn't mean a 737NG type rated pilot can't fly it or be of assistance. It is up the the pilot in command to make the judgement call.


The only main differences would be minor things like the GPWS calls on approach for radio altimeter. It always amazes me that people will say things like this when in reality there isn’t any major differences or else they couldn’t hold the same type ratings!

A 737 is a 737 is a 737.
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CRJ200flyer
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:51 pm

Vio wrote:
CRJ200flyer wrote:
There is a whole lot of misinformation going on in this thread, and varying scenarios.

As an airline pilot, if there’s another airline pilot on our aircraft, and we lose a crew member, then of course I will ask him or her to help. Even if the person is rated on a different aircraft, they can still help with checklists and radios, communicate with flight attendants, and be another set of eyes.

In regards to how we could verify what aircraft they are trained to fly, it’s stated on their license documents. If they’re jumpseating, we’ve normally already talked about it when they said hello (or we just know, like if they fly for a single type airline like Spirit or Southwest).


First of all, what will one do with the incapacitated pilot? How incapacitated is he or she? What is wrong? From our training, we secure the incapacitated crew member by locking his or her seatbelt, pull the seat back, etc. What exactly could one do? Remove this individual from the seat? How? Who will come in the cockpit to do that? And why? I can land my plane single pilot, no problem. I would communicate the issues with the back and follow company SOPs.

I may ask for help if I knew a COMPANY pilot is on board, but that's it. What can they (FAs) do? Make a PA "One of our pilots is passed out, so anyone with any flight experience please raise your hand!" Timmy back there is an expert Flight Sim player and starts going crazy! "ME ME ME!"

IN MOST CASES It's safer, faster and more appropriate to carry out a single pilot landing at the nearest suitable airport.


Thank you for those excellent points and clarifications. I was attempting to dispel the idea that other crews in the jumpseat are useless to us in an emergency, but you are right. If the incapacitated crew member is in their position, no, we would not move them, nor would we open that door to look for anyone else. I had on my mind what happened to a close friend some time ago - his Captain collapsed in the galley while getting coffee. Obviously that’s a unique scenario.

In my brief discussion my mind was also on a more serious scenario - a bigger emergency situation or more complexity. A captain and I were discussing this cruising along the other day. If we lost a crew member in a bad weather situation in NYC, it would sure be nice to have another set of eyes and hands to help out.

Thanks for the discussion, and the feedback!
 
STLflyer
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:04 pm

BravoOne wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
BravoOne wrote:


Can you expand on these difference you speak of?


It’s an entirely different kind of flying.


I don't know where you came up with that idea but it remains the same kind of flying regardless of who owns the airplane. Maybe something is getting lost in the translation here?


6 years and 3,000 posts on an aviation forum, and you haven't seen the movie Airplane?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:16 pm

STLflyer wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
STLflyer wrote:

It’s an entirely different kind of flying.


I don't know where you came up with that idea but it remains the same kind of flying regardless of who owns the airplane. Maybe something is getting lost in the translation here?


6 years and 3,000 posts on an aviation forum, and you haven't seen the movie Airplane?


Surely you can't be serious.

It's an entirely different kind of movie, altogether.
 
Northpole
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:32 pm

socko wrote:
Ted Striker did it!!! Hahaha


Clint Eastwood ? :)
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:53 pm

Vio wrote:
...I may ask for help if I knew a COMPANY pilot is on board, but that's it. What can they (FAs) do? Make a PA "One of our pilots is passed out, so anyone with any flight experience please raise your hand!" Timmy back there is an expert Flight Sim player and starts going crazy! "ME ME ME!"

IN MOST CASES It's safer, faster and more appropriate to carry out a single pilot landing at the nearest suitable airport.

I do understand your point, but I think you need to include the risk for the remaining pilot to become incapacitated as well. It probably never happened, and is very unlikely to occur, but it's a risk factor. As an analogy, one engine failing means the remaining engine(s) are suspects too from that point on as they have probably been serviced by the same team. Two pilots may have been subjected to something nefarious on purpose, by mistake or by accident, especially after a layover at the same hotel. I have flown gliders a few times and one engine pistons on a handful occasions (only takeoff and landing performed by the real pilot) and never had a license, but I still think having someone like me ready to step in if all else fails is better than having no one. The problem may well be to find that person somewhat discretely and also problems with instructing that person on what to do. If those problems outweigh the risk of ending up with both pilots incapacitated, I cannot tell, but it's worth consideration I think.

/Fredrik
 
BravoOne
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:07 pm

STLflyer wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
STLflyer wrote:

It’s an entirely different kind of flying.


I don't know where you came up with that idea but it remains the same kind of flying regardless of who owns the airplane. Maybe something is getting lost in the translation here?


6 years and 3,000 posts on an aviation forum, and you haven't seen the movie Airplane?


No actually I never assume that the posters here have a clue about aviation. BTW a very funny movie:)
 
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CFM565A1
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:10 pm

FredrikHAD wrote:
Vio wrote:
...I may ask for help if I knew a COMPANY pilot is on board, but that's it. What can they (FAs) do? Make a PA "One of our pilots is passed out, so anyone with any flight experience please raise your hand!" Timmy back there is an expert Flight Sim player and starts going crazy! "ME ME ME!"

IN MOST CASES It's safer, faster and more appropriate to carry out a single pilot landing at the nearest suitable airport.

I do understand your point, but I think you need to include the risk for the remaining pilot to become incapacitated as well. It probably never happened, and is very unlikely to occur, but it's a risk factor. As an analogy, one engine failing means the remaining engine(s) are suspects too from that point on as they have probably been serviced by the same team. Two pilots may have been subjected to something nefarious on purpose, by mistake or by accident, especially after a layover at the same hotel. I have flown gliders a few times and one engine pistons on a handful occasions (only takeoff and landing performed by the real pilot) and never had a license, but I still think having someone like me ready to step in if all else fails is better than having no one. The problem may well be to find that person somewhat discretely and also problems with instructing that person on what to do. If those problems outweigh the risk of ending up with both pilots incapacitated, I cannot tell, but it's worth consideration I think.

/Fredrik


It has happened (Helios)...
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MADPYRO
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:29 pm

CFM565A1 wrote:
FredrikHAD wrote:
Vio wrote:
...I may ask for help if I knew a COMPANY pilot is on board, but that's it. What can they (FAs) do? Make a PA "One of our pilots is passed out, so anyone with any flight experience please raise your hand!" Timmy back there is an expert Flight Sim player and starts going crazy! "ME ME ME!"

IN MOST CASES It's safer, faster and more appropriate to carry out a single pilot landing at the nearest suitable airport.

I do understand your point, but I think you need to include the risk for the remaining pilot to become incapacitated as well. It probably never happened, and is very unlikely to occur, but it's a risk factor. As an analogy, one engine failing means the remaining engine(s) are suspects too from that point on as they have probably been serviced by the same team. Two pilots may have been subjected to something nefarious on purpose, by mistake or by accident, especially after a layover at the same hotel. I have flown gliders a few times and one engine pistons on a handful occasions (only takeoff and landing performed by the real pilot) and never had a license, but I still think having someone like me ready to step in if all else fails is better than having no one. The problem may well be to find that person somewhat discretely and also problems with instructing that person on what to do. If those problems outweigh the risk of ending up with both pilots incapacitated, I cannot tell, but it's worth consideration I think.

/Fredrik


It has happened (Helios)...


With Helios, the only person who was still conscious tried (unsuccessfully) to fly the plane safely down
A319/A320/A321/A388/B737/B738/B744/B752/B772/E190/F70
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:09 pm

ltbewr wrote:
We had a few weeks ago where an off-duty pilot flying with his family for holiday ended up being a co-pilot for his flight (same airline). With only 2 in a cockpit and one disabled, a qualified commercial pilot on board on a flight would be acceptable and indeed desirable so long as had a copy of their license, sober and not tired.


Yes but that flight was still to depart and pilot in question was effectively "rostered on duty" at his own choice, rather than wait for the company to send another pilot out. Not an emergency situation at all.
 
beechnut
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:16 pm

"Is there a doctor... and a pilot on board"? That should wake up the pax! My wife is a family doc by the way, and she responded to a "is there a doctor on board?" incident. She got a nice letter from Air Canada's Chief Medical Officer and a bunch of Aeroplan points as a reward. The captain kept asking her if he needed to land, but she said no, the elderly patient was just hyperventilating from anxiety and needed some oxygen. The captain said "aren't you supposed to make her breathe into a paper bag for that?" I guess the captain's medical knowledge was stuck in the Marcus Welby age. Studies have shown that it can provoke heart failure in the elderly. My wife finally got fed up and told the captain "you go fly the plane, I'll take care of the patient!".

Beech
 
spacecadet
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:23 pm

Adipocere wrote:
IIRC, Didn’t the crew get assistance from a first class passenger on UA232?


They got assistance from an off-duty United DC-10 check captain. Not just any old passenger. He was technically the senior-most pilot on that flight deck and he was type rated for that aircraft.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
DenverBrian
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:30 pm

STLflyer wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
STLflyer wrote:

It’s an entirely different kind of flying.


I don't know where you came up with that idea but it remains the same kind of flying regardless of who owns the airplane. Maybe something is getting lost in the translation here?


6 years and 3,000 posts on an aviation forum, and you haven't seen the movie Airplane?
To those who might want to save BravoOne's bacon here...I just want to tell you, good luck, we're all counting on you.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:43 pm

Normally the remaining pilot would just land ASAP. If there were no company pilots on board I think they wouldn't call for anyone else's assistance unless it was really needed, because their background is unknown and they could do more harm than good. It's a bit like when they call for a doctor - nobody really knows what kind of medical qualifications (if any) that person has.

Handing over control of a plane to someone on the basis that they put their hand up and said "me" is probably also not a good idea.
 
Redbellyguppy
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:46 pm

I had an incapacitated first officer once. He was puking so hard he was of no use to me on the flight deck. There were no other company pilots on board. I’d have been reluctant to draft a jumpseater unless (s)he was already up front. It wasn’t like we were united 232. This was a fully functional aircraft. It was busy, but It was a short enough flight that I just continued to fly it to the destination while I breathed through my mouth...
 
BravoOne
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:46 pm

That's nothing. I had a F/O die on a 6 mile final to CDG and he was flying to boot. Guess what we all lived without any help from the back.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:49 pm

DenverBrian wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
BravoOne wrote:

I don't know where you came up with that idea but it remains the same kind of flying regardless of who owns the airplane. Maybe something is getting lost in the translation here?


6 years and 3,000 posts on an aviation forum, and you haven't seen the movie Airplane?
To those who might want to save BravoOne's bacon here...I just want to tell you, good luck, we're all counting on you.


Relax and stand down, as no one needs to save me from the arm chair experts here.
 
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CFM565A1
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:08 am

MADPYRO wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:
FredrikHAD wrote:
I do understand your point, but I think you need to include the risk for the remaining pilot to become incapacitated as well. It probably never happened, and is very unlikely to occur, but it's a risk factor. As an analogy, one engine failing means the remaining engine(s) are suspects too from that point on as they have probably been serviced by the same team. Two pilots may have been subjected to something nefarious on purpose, by mistake or by accident, especially after a layover at the same hotel. I have flown gliders a few times and one engine pistons on a handful occasions (only takeoff and landing performed by the real pilot) and never had a license, but I still think having someone like me ready to step in if all else fails is better than having no one. The problem may well be to find that person somewhat discretely and also problems with instructing that person on what to do. If those problems outweigh the risk of ending up with both pilots incapacitated, I cannot tell, but it's worth consideration I think.

/Fredrik


It has happened (Helios)...


With Helios, the only person who was still conscious tried (unsuccessfully) to fly the plane safely down


See what the post I replied to says... there is a risk of both pilots becoming incapacitated while some on here try to refute that point.
C172-M/N/P/R/S , PA-28-180, P2006T, PA-34-200T, B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:24 am

lightsaber wrote:
socko wrote:
Ted Striker did it!!! Hahaha

Paging Ted Striker to the white courtesy phone...


Lightsaber


THE WHITE COURTESY PHONE!

;)
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:45 am

BravoOne wrote:
DenverBrian wrote:
STLflyer wrote:

6 years and 3,000 posts on an aviation forum, and you haven't seen the movie Airplane?
To those who might want to save BravoOne's bacon here...I just want to tell you, good luck, we're all counting on you.


Relax and stand down, as no one needs to save me from the arm chair experts here.


Roger, Over.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:05 am

BravoOne wrote:
Relax and stand down, as no one needs to save me from the arm chair experts here.


Wow.
Image
 
DarthLobster
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:15 am

lightsaber wrote:
socko wrote:
Ted Striker did it!!! Hahaha

Paging Ted Striker to the white courtesy phone...


As long as it isn't over Macho Grande...
 
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CFM565A1
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:42 am

IPFreely wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Relax and stand down, as no one needs to save me from the arm chair experts here.


Wow.
Image


:lol: :lol: :lol:
C172-M/N/P/R/S , PA-28-180, P2006T, PA-34-200T, B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
BerenErchamion
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:12 am

JetBuddy wrote:
pl4nekr4zy wrote:
No. If a Southwest 737 has an emergency, a United 737 pilot (for example) absolutely canNOT fly it. The cockpits have completely different layouts and instrumentation, and the UA 737 pilot would be unfamiliar with SW's setup. It is physically impossible for anyone other than a Southwest 737 pilot to fly a Southwest 737. It simply CANNOT happen. Even in an emergency, where the crew can use any and all available resources, no pilot can fly another airline's aircraft. It just can't happen.


Not wanting to be too harsh - but this is BS.

Even though some Southwest 737NG (used to) have the "Classic" instrumentation layout on the PFD, it doesn't mean a 737NG type rated pilot can't fly it or be of assistance. It is up the the pilot in command to make the judgement call.


Hell, even if they couldn't do anything else a Singapore A380 pilot would probably have minimal trouble if any figuring out which of the displays is airspeed, which is altitude, etc. in a Delta 717 cockpit. Never mind someone who's actually rated for the type.
 
pl4nekr4zy
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:11 am

musman9853 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
pl4nekr4zy wrote:
Boeing and Airbus customize the physics and flight characteristics for their respective customers. Types are not interchangeable between different airlines, and therefore can only be flown by flight crew trained specifically on a given airline's fleet.


How, exactly, does an AA 738 have different “physics” from a DL or UA 738?


aa went for the low-grav option to increase mtow


Correct, and they also opted for inverted flight controls. I hear that if United ever goes for the MAX 7, they will select the sidestick option, as well as a 3-person required cockpit crew (2nd officer operates the iPad).
"Don't forget to bring a towel!"
 
travatl
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:06 am

An AA F/A sat in for a sick F/O just as an extra set of eyes and checklist running.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi4HmZYsqM8
1 Interview. 24 years. 3 Airlines.
 
FLDude
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:17 am

Dieuwer wrote:
So in those movies where you see both pilots incapacitated, a passenger who never flew a plane get up and lands the plane with help from the tower, is a load of nonsense.


Rapunzel! Rapunzel!
 
Amiga500
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:59 am

pl4nekr4zy wrote:
No. If a Southwest 737 has an emergency, a United 737 pilot (for example) absolutely canNOT fly it. The cockpits have completely different layouts and instrumentation, and the UA 737 pilot would be unfamiliar with SW's setup. It is physically impossible for anyone other than a Southwest 737 pilot to fly a Southwest 737. It simply CANNOT happen. Even in an emergency, where the crew can use any and all available resources, no pilot can fly another airline's aircraft. It just can't happen.



Exactly.

They are expected to sit in the back like everyone else, put their head between their legs and kiss their arse goodbye as they go into the ground like a f__k__g dart! [/billy connolly] :lol:
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:15 am

CFM565A1 wrote:
MADPYRO wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:

It has happened (Helios)...


With Helios, the only person who was still conscious tried (unsuccessfully) to fly the plane safely down


See what the post I replied to says... there is a risk of both pilots becoming incapacitated while some on here try to refute that point.

If there is a suitable airport nearby, diverting there without any further help would probably be the safest thing to do, but what about over the Atlantic with 2 hours to anything hard to put the landing gear on?

I read up on Helios. The F/A taking over the controls was even a CPL, but with no fuel left, he was out of options:

"At 11:49, flight attendant Andreas Prodromou entered the cockpit and sat down in the captain's seat, having remained conscious by using a portable oxygen supply.[3]:139[4] Prodromou held a UK Commercial Pilot Licence,[3]:27 but was not qualified to fly the Boeing 737. Crash investigators concluded that Prodromou's experience was insufficient for him to be able to gain control of the aircraft under the circumstances.[3]:139 Prodromou waved at the F16s very briefly, but almost as soon as he entered the cockpit, the left engine flamed out due to fuel exhaustion[3]:19 and the plane left the holding pattern and started to descend."

/Fredrik
 
airbuster
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:52 am

At my airline we interchange 737s with the lowcost carrier of the group. Sometimes at a few hours notice if needed. The setup is different but nothing special. A 737-800 is a 737-800.
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AirKevin
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:14 am

MADPYRO wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:
FredrikHAD wrote:
I do understand your point, but I think you need to include the risk for the remaining pilot to become incapacitated as well. It probably never happened, and is very unlikely to occur, but it's a risk factor. As an analogy, one engine failing means the remaining engine(s) are suspects too from that point on as they have probably been serviced by the same team. Two pilots may have been subjected to something nefarious on purpose, by mistake or by accident, especially after a layover at the same hotel. I have flown gliders a few times and one engine pistons on a handful occasions (only takeoff and landing performed by the real pilot) and never had a license, but I still think having someone like me ready to step in if all else fails is better than having no one. The problem may well be to find that person somewhat discretely and also problems with instructing that person on what to do. If those problems outweigh the risk of ending up with both pilots incapacitated, I cannot tell, but it's worth consideration I think.

It has happened (Helios)...

With Helios, the only person who was still conscious tried (unsuccessfully) to fly the plane safely down

Mostly because by the time he tried, it was already too late. The engines had started to flame out from fuel exhaustion by that point.
BravoOne wrote:
That's nothing. I had a F/O die on a 6 mile final to CDG and he was flying to boot. Guess what we all lived without any help from the back.

"I have control?"
Captain Kevin
 
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CFM565A1
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Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:52 am

FredrikHAD wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:
MADPYRO wrote:

With Helios, the only person who was still conscious tried (unsuccessfully) to fly the plane safely down


See what the post I replied to says... there is a risk of both pilots becoming incapacitated while some on here try to refute that point.

If there is a suitable airport nearby, diverting there without any further help would probably be the safest thing to do, but what about over the Atlantic with 2 hours to anything hard to put the landing gear on?

I read up on Helios. The F/A taking over the controls was even a CPL, but with no fuel left, he was out of options:

"At 11:49, flight attendant Andreas Prodromou entered the cockpit and sat down in the captain's seat, having remained conscious by using a portable oxygen supply.[3]:139[4] Prodromou held a UK Commercial Pilot Licence,[3]:27 but was not qualified to fly the Boeing 737. Crash investigators concluded that Prodromou's experience was insufficient for him to be able to gain control of the aircraft under the circumstances.[3]:139 Prodromou waved at the F16s very briefly, but almost as soon as he entered the cockpit, the left engine flamed out due to fuel exhaustion[3]:19 and the plane left the holding pattern and started to descend."

/Fredrik



I’ll reiterate why I mentioned Helios for those who don’t understand why I used it as a example... in your original post, you mentioned about dual incapacitation. That’s a perfect example (pilots died due to asphyxiation and the CPL holding FA survived). Unfortunately the thing ran out of fuel as discussed above. Fredrik, you correctly pointed out that there is risk for both pilots to be incapacitated.

Actually another example is United 93. The passengers organized their effort to retake the plane and had a retired airline pilot willing to take over had they been successful in retaking control.

Overall, a 757 or 737 or whatever you want to fill in the blank with flies the same regardless of who’s paint is on the outside. Airlines have differences in day to day SOPs ( like when you do certain things). I know for example UA had a buffer speed that you’d have to be an x amount of KIAS below flap extension speed whereas other airlines don’t have that.

In an extreme case of total incapacitation, SOPs would not apply.
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bravotango75
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:41 am

rising wrote:
For example, if a Southwest or UPS pilot was catching a ride home on an American A320, and there was an illness or emergency, could he/she help fly the rest of the flight or would the other pilot just bring it down solo?

Being safety is the end all I would assume, and hope, yes they could help, but airlines/airplanes have different procedures. I see a lot of uninformed pilots from other carriers on flights and always wondered.

Sure, it happens all the time in movies, have you not seen.....AIRPLANE?! Hollywood is not in the business of Fantasy and Lies...
 
ExpatVet
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:35 am

Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:40 am

NearMiss wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
So in those movies where you see both pilots incapacitated, a passenger who never flew a plane get up and lands the plane with help from the tower, is a load of nonsense.


Surely you can’t be serious.


I am serious...And don't call me Shirley


We're all counting on you.
L101, 733/4/5/8/9, 741/2/3 (never managed 744!), MD 80/2/3/8/90, MD11, DHC8/3/Q4, E170, E195, 757, 77W, 763/4, Travel Air 2000. A300/310, A319/320/321, A333, ATR-72, probably a few others I forget. Passenger, not pilot, alas! BUD based.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5099
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Can a pilot fly another airline's aircraft in an emergency?

Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:48 am

Dieuwer wrote:
So in those movies where you see both pilots incapacitated, a passenger who never flew a plane get up and lands the plane with help from the tower, is a load of nonsense.


those are movies. in reality? Flying as a Passenger I once has to go into the Lower 41 of a 747 to re-rack some Nav units following a lightning strike. And my airline Knows who and where you are on any given flight.

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