UA857
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Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:41 am

Delta used to fly from EWR-LHR/CDG/AMS. Considering the fact that DL has connecting feed at LHR, CDG and AMS why were these routes cut?
 
Ishrion
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:58 am

Didn’t really seem logical... not sure what the main reason was for starting these routes. DL recently cut TATL out of PIT and I believe PHL?

The LHR route is covered by JV partner VS. They probably want to focus all flights at JFK to have connections on both sides.
 
themuffinhead21
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:58 am

They couldn't compete with the UA monster at EWR. Didst make financial sense especially when they have their own hub right across the river
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:00 am

They left those routes to their partners (VS, KL, and AF) to concentrate on their TATL hub at JFK.

Makes perfect sense to me.
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patrickjp93
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:11 am

EWR has the highest landing fees of the Greater New York area by a country mile, so it's not surprising they're trying to lay claim to more JFK gates now while their partners take on the costs of Newark. Honestly can we just close La Guardia down and start again?
 
UA777EWRTLV
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:12 am

[*]
ElroyJetson wrote:
They left those routes to their partners (VS, KL, and AF) to concentrate on their TATL hub at JFK.

Makes perfect sense to me.


Not to nit-pick, but neither KL nor AF fly to EWR, however, VS indeed does. I think they just accepted the fact that EWR is a UA/Star Alliance fortress hub. Airlines are businesses and have to follow the $, as much as us airline geeks love the thought of “prestige” routes, which is why DL has cut HKG and SIN, as well as EWR-TATL flights, yet is starting TATL flights from secondary cities like Tampa and Indianapolis- that’s where the $ is. Same reason why UA is cutting EWR-EZE (leaving IAH as the sole EZE flight) and ORD-HKG (leaving EWR and SFO as the sole HKG gateways).
 
DarthLobster
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:17 am

United
 
Lootess
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:59 am

VS will never drop EWR, it's flight 1 and has a lot of history. Re-allocation of routes like TPA-AMS are certainly more profitable.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:17 am

Lootess wrote:
VS will never drop EWR, it's flight 1 and has a lot of history.

VS (and any other profit-driven corporate enterprise) doesn't operate on emotion, and thus couldn't give 2squirts of dog crap about "history".... if the network-benefit of that flight ever became sustainably less profitable than the allocated aircraft's opportunity cost, then they'd kill it without a second thought.

Just as they did the likes of SYD, once vaunted as a jewel in their longhaul crown.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Thibault973
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:11 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
They left those routes to their partners (VS, KL, and AF) to concentrate on their TATL hub at JFK.

Makes perfect sense to me.


Don’t know about KL but in the case of AF it’s quiet the opposite. AF flew the route for yearsssss, DL picked it when AF dropped the route. Same with PHL and ORD for a while.
 
cokepopper
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:42 am

Some thoughts. Passengers loved the fact that they had a choice over United. I’d seen many continental/United bag tags which led to many conversations with passengers about this. The flights were full (I don’t have numbers for yield) but have been told by marketing exec’s that AMS performed well, not so much for CDG because of competition. LHR started off light but the last three months we were full. I think we only flew LHR 6 months. I always believed these flights made sense as it was not ignoring Delta’s FF/corporate base west of the Hudson River.

And no KLM didn’t return to EWR nor Air France.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:18 am

DL never flew to LHR from EWR with its own metal. The route is operated by VS and is a legacy route as the first TATL route operated by VS (initially from LGW in 1984 when it launched and then moved to LHR in 1991). It has operated with a 747-100, 747-200, 747-400, A340-300/600, A333, and 789. DL dropped AMS and CDG from EWR because it has a hub at JFK and EWR has higher landing fees making them expensive to operate and allocated the slots to domestic DL flights that can make more money. AF has flown ORY-EWR and then CDG-EWR for a time, and KL/NW flew AMS-EWR for years. The absence of AF and KL at EWR probably has to do with UA and the fact that it has what the market takes from EWR. With Corsair and French Bee adding EWR-ORY next Summer, and La Compagnie in the market as well, AF probably sees no need to dilute margins further.
 
cokepopper
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:32 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
DL never flew to LHR from EWR with its own metal.


So all those flights I worked were just a dream?
You might want to recheck your statement.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:34 am

Lootess wrote:
VS will never drop EWR, it's flight 1 and has a lot of history. Re-allocation of routes like TPA-AMS are certainly more profitable.

They might move the NYC airport to JFK just as they moved the LON one to LHR, VS001 was LGW-EWR remember, the history has already been amended.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:37 am

cokepopper wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
DL never flew to LHR from EWR with its own metal.


So all those flights I worked were just a dream?
You might want to recheck your statement.

I have no memory of Delta flying EWR-LHR. They had two JFK-LGW's that made the move to LHR, then in 2008 they got into LHR. I'll look it up when I get home.
 
Cunard
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:06 pm

skipness1E wrote:
cokepopper wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
DL never flew to LHR from EWR with its own metal.


So all those flights I worked were just a dream?
You might want to recheck your statement.

I have no memory of Delta flying EWR-LHR. They had two JFK-LGW's that made the move to LHR, then in 2008 they got into LHR. I'll look it up when I get home.


Delta flew EWR-LHR for one season only, during 2015. The last flight was on the 05 October 2015. EWR-LHR along with LAX-LHR was also cancelled.

At the time of the announcement Virgin Atlantic restored it's second daily LHR-EWR, flight number VS023/VS024.

Flight schedule for Newark to London Heathrow was as follows.

DL068 EWR 19.10 LHR 07.30 763 Daily
DL069 LHR 09.05 EWR 12.30 763 Daily
Last edited by Cunard on Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DALMD80
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:43 pm

Probably they can make more money out of KBOS.
You can take the boy away from aviation, but you can't take aviation out of the boy.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:07 pm

DALMD80 wrote:
Probably they can make more money out of KBOS.


Or JFK, ATL, DTW... Airlines cut routes and otherwise change capacity (frequency, up/downgauge) all the time. Enilria's Sunday postings document this. Why did UA end JFK service? 'Cause it thought it could make more $ from EWR.

Some same-city airports get duplicate service. DL operates ATL to both IAH and HOU. It flies ATL to both DFW and DAL. Those units of capacity can be smaller, however, (717s to Houston), than what DL could operate EWR/LHR/CDG/AMS.
 
Austin787
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:48 pm

Same reason UA cut TATL out of JFK, and AA downsizing TATL out of JFK. They have much bigger hub nearby to serve as a TATL gateway.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:21 pm

Austin787 wrote:
Same reason UA cut TATL out of JFK, and AA downsizing TATL out of JFK. They have much bigger hub nearby to serve as a TATL gateway.


Well, yes and no. First, UA did not have a TATL network from JFK apart from LHR, which it began flying in 1992 and peaked at 3 x daily, with 767-300ERs by the late 1990s. UA was done to 1 x daily on a 772 to LHR from JFK when it sold the route authority to DL for a reported $30MM. What UA did was close JFK entirely in 2014 and shifted the remaining routes (LAX/SFO) to EWR. There was also a JFK-IAD express flight that was also canned. UA cut JFK to LHR because it was in bankruptcy (actually emerging from it in 2006 when the last flight operated) and focused on IAD at the time. EWR was obviously not a hub for UA until post-2010, when it merged with CO.

As for AA, again it's not quite the same. AA reduced its TATL footprint at JFK post-merger with US, because it has PHL which is AA's primary TATL gateway so close by, and PHL is a connecting hub at over 300+ daily departures, vs what JFK is for AA, which is between 87 and 100 daily departures. There are other reasons as to why continued to shrink at JFK, well covered on this forum.
 
klm617
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:27 pm

They also flew EWR-FRA
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
N649DL
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Re: Why did Delta cut TATL flying from EWR?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:15 pm

cokepopper wrote:
Some thoughts. Passengers loved the fact that they had a choice over United. I’d seen many continental/United bag tags which led to many conversations with passengers about this. The flights were full (I don’t have numbers for yield) but have been told by marketing exec’s that AMS performed well, not so much for CDG because of competition. LHR started off light but the last three months we were full. I think we only flew LHR 6 months. I always believed these flights made sense as it was not ignoring Delta’s FF/corporate base west of the Hudson River.

And no KLM didn’t return to EWR nor Air France.


That I believe. IIRC, recall DL took up these routes from partners as CDG was from AF dropping it and AMS was a long time NW / KLM route. LHR might've been an addition to VS, but they already had JV with VS so when DL dropped it, it didn't matter as the code share to DL was going to go to VS flight #1.

So IMHO, LHR was a trial run, CDG was failing on AF and transferred to DL metal, AMS was inherited from NW and seemed to be quite popular so I was surprised when it was dropped as well (it operated with the A330 at certain points in time as well.) Maybe corporate contracts dropped off? IDK. Recall DL struggled in the same way out of PHL to LHR and CDG as well recently.

It seems with the complete refresh of the DL SkyClub at EWR, they're going after the domestic market with flights to RDU and BOS instead. It's possible LAX or SEA could soon follow.

The EWR VS. JFK excuse doesn't match up as UA operated it's own EWR-LHR from the Early 1990s until 2004 and AA twice re-starting EWR-LHR (most recently) in 1998 until 2003 with both airlines much stronger at Kennedy.

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