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LAXintl
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Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:19 am

As the toll from reduced bookings continues, airlines are asking for help.


Airlines have called on the Hong Kong government to waive costly airport landing and parking fees in a bid to help the aviation industry ride out the downturn caused by the city’s recent protest crisis.

The Board of Airline Representatives (BAR) of Hong Kong, representing more than 70 airlines flying to and from the city, also proposed cutting other airport operating costs, including rental fees for office and lounges, according to a letter seen by the Post on Monday.

In a letter to the Transport and Housing Bureau, BAR chairman Ronald Lam Siu-por, said the loss of earnings had made flights to Hong Kong no longer financially viable. “In view of the situation, the BAR urges the Hong Kong government to consider issuing short-term relief measures that can help airlines survive this extremely difficult time,” said the BAR. The letter did not specify how long the financial help should last.



Airlines call on Hong Kong government to waive airport fees to ease losses caused by anti-government protest crisis
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... -fees-ease

=


Can't blame airlines for asking. There is precedence for such fee reductions. Following both the Asian financial crisis, and the global financial crisis the Hong Kong government offered airlines a relief package twith reduced charges.
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Ishrion
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Re: Airlines ask HKG airport to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:23 am

Ouch. Has there been any info on the passenger traffic for August 2019 compared to 2018?
 
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janders
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Re: Airlines ask HKG airport to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:24 am

Things are not pretty that is for sure. Only last week United's Scott Kirby called Hong Kong "terrible”

https://skift.com/2019/09/12/united-air ... es-suffer/

Ishrion wrote:
Ouch. Has there been any info on the passenger traffic for August 2019 compared to 2018?


The airport reported 12.4% decline in August passengers, however, that includes transit clients.

CX reported on a local O&D basis it saw 38% decline in traffic for August!

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1431097
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
c933103
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:32 am

The government of Hong Kong have indicated intention to help affected industries so it make sense for them to speak out
It is not possible to counter violence with peace when the goal of the violence is to take away everything you have. #HongKong
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:34 am

Pretty sure something similar was done during the SARS crisis of 2003, as well
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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mercure1
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:52 pm

Looks like it will be a difficult winter for airlines serving HKG. Suspect we will see many more schedule trims.
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UPlog
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:45 pm

Its not just passenger airlines suffering, but freight operators also. In August HKG saw 15.9% decline in tonnage.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:20 am

IATA urging HK government to assist airlines suffering from an "unprecedented" decline in traffic.

They believe HK reaching the point where the tourism industry one the major economic drivers will face enduring long term impact from the ongoing protest.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... -hong-kong
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usdcaguy
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:40 am

You have to wonder, however, whether carriers are using the situation to try and renegotiate their leases. Hong Kong should make any relief package applicable for only a short while after the protests end.
 
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:28 am

Well, I just flew from JFK to MNL on Korean, and I booked the tickets around Aug. 1, just when the trouble was starting. My last time I flew CX, which we liked very much. But I did not even consider it this time, nor will I until the trouble is ended. Since I need to book well in advance, and stay a matter of months (two this time, five last time) I do not want to take the risk of having our travel disrupted even though we are only in the airport and not visiting the city. I am sure there are many, many others who feel the same way.
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eurotrader85
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:31 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
You have to wonder, however, whether carriers are using the situation to try and renegotiate their leases. Hong Kong should make any relief package applicable for only a short while after the protests end.


Agreed, this whiffs of usual leveraging when a man is down. Operations are ultimately working fine at the airport, and yes there are issues going on in the city affecting demand, but then airlines have to decide if they want to keep going or suspend and pass back their slots. Risk losing them to rivals for good or ride the temporary storm. Only if there becomes an unlikely onslaught of airlines throwing in the towel is there a meaningful commercial pressure to reduce airport rates. As it's government owned the government can decide how many tax dollars it wants to throw to comfort its clients through the period but its right IMO to take the lobby groups demands with a pinch of salt.
 
c933103
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:10 am

Rumor on local media: Government will offer financial aid to help airlines, but instead of offering tax break or relieve, they will instead subsidize local resident in the city to travel into or out of the city, with the amount being same as the airport tax, HK$120=US$15. It is said that such subsidy is effectively equal to waiving the airport tax for local residents and the government hope that such measure could stimulate air travel demand to keep air service sustainable.
It is not possible to counter violence with peace when the goal of the violence is to take away everything you have. #HongKong
 
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mercure1
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:43 pm

I am not sure providing an airport tax credit for locals is what is needed. Demand from abroad is what is suffering greatest after people watch day after day of violent protest on TV which scares them away visiting or transiting Hong Kong.
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lhrnue
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:04 pm

Last week I was checking London to Sydney and CX turned up the cheapest option.
 
dredgy
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:13 pm

lhrnue wrote:
Last week I was checking London to Sydney and CX turned up the cheapest option.


Yup, booked a flight for a friend from JNB to BNE last week and Cathay was the cheapest option by a long way at only $600AUD one way. I’ve never known Cathay to even show up on the first page of search results for price!
 
c933103
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:38 am

The Hong Kong government have officially announed details of the subsidy. Instead of subsidizing airlines or residents directly, they're going ti give those subsidy to travel agents instead. Each inbound overnight tourists can get HK$120=US$15 subsidy, while each outbound overnight tourist can get HK$100=US$12 subsidy. There is a quota of 500 tourists per each travel agency and thus the maximum cash subsidy each travel agents can receive will be HK$60000=US$7500. Travel agents can choose to use the cash subsidy freely, as in they can either keep it or give them back to tourists.
It is not possible to counter violence with peace when the goal of the violence is to take away everything you have. #HongKong
 
grbauc
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:15 am

c933103 wrote:
The Hong Kong government have officially announed details of the subsidy. Instead of subsidizing airlines or residents directly, they're going ti give those subsidy to travel agents instead. Each inbound overnight tourists can get HK$120=US$15 subsidy, while each outbound overnight tourist can get HK$100=US$12 subsidy. There is a quota of 500 tourists per each travel agency and thus the maximum cash subsidy each travel agents can receive will be HK$60000=US$7500. Travel agents can choose to use the cash subsidy freely, as in they can either keep it or give them back to tourists.



Huh wow Not sure this will move the needle much. I for one will fly CX and tru HKG and enjoy the great fares and support them that way.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:13 am

c933103 wrote:
The Hong Kong government have officially announed details of the subsidy. Instead of subsidizing airlines or residents directly, they're going ti give those subsidy to travel agents instead. Each inbound overnight tourists can get HK$120=US$15 subsidy, while each outbound overnight tourist can get HK$100=US$12 subsidy. There is a quota of 500 tourists per each travel agency and thus the maximum cash subsidy each travel agents can receive will be HK$60000=US$7500. Travel agents can choose to use the cash subsidy freely, as in they can either keep it or give them back to tourists.


Not sure why my original post was deleted...

So basically they think by making tickets about HKD100 cheaper, people will now book through travel agent (I am assuming actual travel agency like Wing On or Hong Thai, not Expedia or Trivago)? Or is Paul Chan so out of touch to realized that even HKers had booked their ticket by themselves, online (via the aforementioned site or directly with the airline) for a long, long time?

mercure1 wrote:
I am not sure providing an airport tax credit for locals is what is needed. Demand from abroad is what is suffering greatest after people watch day after day of violent protest on TV which scares them away visiting or transiting Hong Kong.


The largest drop by miles is from mainland PRC anyway. Of course, since something like 70% of the “visitor” (bc IIRC the day-trippers are included) to HK are from the mainland, the numbers will look bad no matter what.
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DTVG
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:58 am

Ah, government handouts in the worlds so called freest economy (not that HK ever really was that). I’m confident that this will solve a lot of economic issues!
 
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mercure1
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:54 pm

Seems like total nonsense. Doubt HK100/120 matters much for anyone, let alone directly help airlines.
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c933103
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:30 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
Not sure why my original post was deleted...
If one of the reply you quoted have been deleted, then your reply will also be deleted, I guess.
zakuivcustom wrote:
So basically they think by making tickets about HKD100 cheaper, people will now book through travel agent (I am assuming actual travel agency like Wing On or Hong Thai, not Expedia or Trivago)? Or is Paul Chan so out of touch to realized that even HKers had booked their ticket by themselves, online (via the aforementioned site or directly with the airline) for a long, long time?

Seems like the idea is to help those who're working in those sectors too, like tour guides and such.
It is not possible to counter violence with peace when the goal of the violence is to take away everything you have. #HongKong
 
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redzeppelin
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:05 am

Anecdotal, but a professional conference that I was considering attending next July in Hong Kong was just moved to a different venue in Seoul. I don't know if other events are leaving the city, but it is interesting that this event cancelled with 9 months to go.
 
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:20 am

dredgy wrote:
lhrnue wrote:
Last week I was checking London to Sydney and CX turned up the cheapest option.


Yup, booked a flight for a friend from JNB to BNE last week and Cathay was the cheapest option by a long way at only $600AUD one way. I’ve never known Cathay to even show up on the first page of search results for price!

Was looking at fares transpacific to the US, and CX would also be the cheapest if not for the ridiculously low fares China Southern is offering.
 
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:08 am

Qantas has announced today in their Q1 results for FY19/20 that the unrest in HKG has led to a $25 million hit in profit

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... rter-fy20/
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:38 pm

redzeppelin wrote:
Anecdotal, but a professional conference that I was considering attending next July in Hong Kong was just moved to a different venue in Seoul. I don't know if other events are leaving the city, but it is interesting that this event cancelled with 9 months to go.


IIRC there was a few concerts by international symphonies that was scheduled for next March there were cancelled. Otherwise, can't blame the conference for backing out now since it does take quite a bit of planning in terms of logistic.

c933103 wrote:
Seems like the idea is to help those who're working in those sectors too, like tour guides and such.


I read further into the whole "bailout" and yes, it benefit those "tour guides" that brings those mainland tour groups (often with low price) to those tourist trap shops (and "coerced" them into buying something) more than actual citizens. Because, certainly, average HKer that are vacationing probably don't care THAT much about 120HKD (~15USD) just to go to, let say, Japan and easily spent that HKD120 (and more) "eating good things".

Oh well, the whole HK tourism board is inept much like the rest of the gov't anyway.
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xxcr
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:10 pm

I just flew to HKG and i must say............it's very different. You don't the same feeling when you arrive at HKG, instead of the excitement feel....you get a nervous feeling in your stomach.

It'll take a few years for them to rebuild........,
 
winginit
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:15 pm

Remember all of the flak that Delta took pulling out of HKG? Not that they could have foreseen any of this, but man they must be just thrilled that they bailed.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:55 pm

Half related (Somebody can start a new thread on this if they want...)
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... -licensing

HX (Hong Kong Airlines) received a warning from the licensing authority to better get their finance in shape.

HX was a mess before the protests, and the protests certainly doesn't help as their main market (Mainland PRC-HK) is the market that's most affected.
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c933103
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:31 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Half related (Somebody can start a new thread on this if they want...)
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... -licensing

HX (Hong Kong Airlines) received a warning from the licensing authority to better get their finance in shape.

HX was a mess before the protests, and the protests certainly doesn't help as their main market (Mainland PRC-HK) is the market that's most affected.

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/brief-hong-ko ... 51158.html
"OTHERWISE, IT WILL CONSIDER TAKING APPROPRIATE ACTION IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE REGULATIONS"
Humm
It is not possible to counter violence with peace when the goal of the violence is to take away everything you have. #HongKong
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:33 pm

https://www.ana.co.jp/ja/jp/topics/notice191031/

ANA also cut a few of their HKG flights.

NH809/810 NRT-HKG suspended between 12/1 and 3/28, except 12/28-1/4.
NH875/876 NGO-HKG suspended between 12/1-12/18 and 2/4-3/28.

NH873/874 KIX-HKG is also downgauged from 763 to a A320neo between 12/1-12/18 and 2/4-3/28.

They're citing a huge reduction in demand, which is not surprising as ANA's Japan-HK flights is largely Japan POS compare to, let say, CX/HX/UO or even MM, due to the timing of the flight (i.e. arriving in evening in Japan while departing Japan in the morning) not being great for HK-outbound traffic. ANA is also far from the cheapest option for HKer vacationing in Japan (They're essentially the same price as CX, and thus, HKers in general just fly with CX with their much greater selection in terms of timing).

Also, keep in mind that ANA also cut both HKG-KIX and HKG-NGO last winter, so those flights are probably not the most profitable flight for ANA to begin with even before the current situation.

NH811/812 remain unchanged (That flight connects to NH's N. America flights and has a much better time than 809/810), as is the two HKG-HND flights.
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LAXintl
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:35 am

No shock Hong Kong economy is contracting the last two quarters. Officially in a recession now

Hong Kong falls into first recession
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/01/hong-ko ... e-war.html
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eamondzhang
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:34 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
NH811/812 remain unchanged (That flight connects to NH's N. America flights and has a much better time than 809/810), as is the two HKG-HND flights.

And the fact that NH811/2 is part of the big rotation of NRT-HKG-HND-CAN-HND-HKG-NRT two-day rotation. The HND-CAN-HND flight is the only international 763 flight out of HND for ANA these days.

Michaele
 
reply1984
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:11 am

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hon ... us-despite

UA reports that passenger levels to Hong Kong have returned to those seen before protests began......
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:33 pm

reply1984 wrote:
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hong-kong-economy/article/3035543/united-airlines-bosses-remain-cautious-despite

UA reports that passenger levels to Hong Kong have returned to those seen before protests began......


The thing that affect booking the most is probably the protests at the airport anyway.

Actually, as long as those pax continue to fly to HKG for business, UA will be able to manage the (seat) supply accordingly.

LAXintl wrote:
No shock Hong Kong economy is contracting the last two quarters. Officially in a recession now

Hong Kong falls into first recession
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/01/hong-ko ... e-war.html


No shock for me either. Retail and tourism industry are of course the most affected, with mainland tourists (which quite frankly are not even liked by 90% of HKers) not coming, local HKers shopping less (Who wants to get tear gassed or harassed by police?).

Meanwhile, the so-call recession resulted in zero drop in housing price, Hang Seng Index is not even falling out of the sky, and the trade war is still affecting the logistic/trade sector much more than the protests ever would.
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:26 am

Virgin Australia dropping MEL-HKG. Retains is SYD-HKG service

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1XG00D
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ng-flights

The Melbourne-Hong Kong route, which Virgin said had "underperformed" amid widespread pro-democracy protests in the Chinese-controlled city, will be axed and the carrier will fly from Brisbane to Tokyo's Haneda Airport instead.
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BR777
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:53 am

Worst yet with the situation deteriorating on a weekly basis, who wants to go to HK unless it's absolutely necessary? No amount of incentive will get me interested in going there now with all the police brutality and tear gassing in major urban areas. It's just sad the city had fallen from grace in a matter of months.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:30 am

Singapore Airlines during its earnings event this week specifically called out protest and violence in Hong Kong as discouraging travel - especially among leisure travellers that look at alternative destinations. SQ said it had cancelled some HKG frequencies with low bookings and consolidated loads on other flights.
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LAXintl
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:33 am

Not just airlines - Disney today said events in HK cause a US $55mil decline in earnings last quarter and expect a $80mil hit this one as its seen "significant decrease" in visitors at the Hong Kong Disneyland Resort.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/07/hong-ko ... ofits.html
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paulduwon
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:51 am

mercure1 wrote:
Singapore Airlines during its earnings event this week specifically called out protest and violence in Hong Kong as discouraging travel - especially among leisure travellers that look at alternative destinations. SQ said it had cancelled some HKG frequencies with low bookings and consolidated loads on other flights.


I’m wondering if SQ1/2 to SFO is going to change anytime soon by this. I suspect the fifth freedom flight is affected by this....
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:47 pm

Going from bad to worse.

October traffic figures are in

Flights: (-6.2%)
Local Pax: (-23.2%)
Total Pax: (-12.9%)
Cargo: (-5.6%)
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:04 pm

Top headline on BBC “Hong Kong pushed to the point of total collapse”

Buck up HKG lovers...it is going to get worse. Much worse.
 
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UPlog
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:53 pm

Seems the protestors are willing to burn their city down and take business activity with it. Think many more airlines will have no option but further curtail flights in face of declining demand.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:40 am

Garuda decimates its HKG schedule.

Reduced from 21 weekly to mere 4 flights!

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-changes/
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Ishrion
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:53 am

Bunch of Chinese mainline carriers reduced service: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-changes/

Notably, XiamenAir is supending HKG from FOC, HGH, XMN, and JJN.

The Wuyishan flight is the remaining one to HKG, meaning XiamenAir went from 26 weekly to 2 weekly flights.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:59 am

UPlog wrote:
Seems the protestors are willing to burn their city down and take business activity with it. Think many more airlines will have no option but further curtail flights in face of declining demand.


Slightly off topic, but it is true that many protesters are aiming to burn down everything to start anew.

In reality, they fully know economic pressure will be the only thing that will cause that inept HK govt to bend over.

Needless to say, things were definitely ugly last week. On the other hand, HK protesters are still too timid and mild compare to the rest of the world :).

Ishrion wrote:
Bunch of Chinese mainline carriers reduced service: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-changes/

Notably, XiamenAir is supending HKG from FOC, HGH, XMN, and JJN.

The Wuyishan flight is the remaining one to HKG, meaning XiamenAir went from 26 weekly to 2 weekly flights.


I am surprised it took this long. Mainland-HK traffic dropped by like 80% IIRC.
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:28 am

Thai Airways reducing 5 to 4 daily. 29 Oct 19 - 17 Jan 20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... y-changes/
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qf789
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:30 am

Cebu Pacific reductions

CEB-HKG reduced from 10 to 7 weekly, till 15 Dec 19
CRK-HKG reduced from 14 to 10 weekly, till 7 Jan 20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... djustment/
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qf789
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:31 am

Philippine Airlines reduced MNL-HKG from 5 to 4 daily through to 15 Dec 19

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-changes/
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c933103
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:43 am

Ishrion wrote:
Bunch of Chinese mainline carriers reduced service: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-changes/

Notably, XiamenAir is supending HKG from FOC, HGH, XMN, and JJN.

The Wuyishan flight is the remaining one to HKG, meaning XiamenAir went from 26 weekly to 2 weekly flights.

FOC/XMN/JJN are also affected by the high speed rail that opened last year.
It is not possible to counter violence with peace when the goal of the violence is to take away everything you have. #HongKong
 
eurotrader85
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Re: Airlines ask HKG to waive fees - "flights no longer financially viable"

Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:24 am

I've just got back from Hong Kong and its amazing to see its no way at all as you see the city on the news. A small area where the protests get spicy, where of course cameras are, but otherwise peaceful and everyone going about their business as normal, but quieter. But it is true to say its scarring people from going. Sat in J to and from Europe on CX and looking at a cabin only 50% full. Not good to see.

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