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RvA
Posts: 375
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:30 pm

About purchasing power;

https://www.nationmaster.com/country-in ... sing-power

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... y_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita?wprov=sfti1

Back on topic, I would be curious though should LHG buy into TAP what would happen to OPO. I would hope TP could continue to fly to Brazil from there but would it make sense to route via LIS instead? Where are the A330 crew based who operate those flights? Anyone know?
 
aviationlover7
Posts: 54
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Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:55 pm

TAP343 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
My source is having friends and family living in different European countries and witnessing first hand how they live, which is as subjective as any official statistic you might find. How much value do you put in sunny, warm weather and inexpensive good wine? Have you ever wondered why so many "northerners" chose to retire in Portugal and Spain? It couldn't possibly be because the quality of life is bad.
Having said all of that, I am not ignorant to the fact that there is a percentage of the population that completely missed the boat on Portugal's recent economic growth. But the days when the Portuguese were these poor people living on the edge of Europe are long gone, IMO.


Official statistics, if calculated correctly, are objective. It's their interpretation that might be subjective.

airbazar wrote:
And to sort of put this back on track again, if TAP were to disappear there isn't another airline what would fill the void. Because TAP is government owned they can operate routes at a loss in order to bring in visitors whose spending and investments make up the difference. In the end the government still gets it's money. A private airline would never operate in this way. No other airline is going to operate 70 weekly flights to Brazil or to N. America. That would lead to less competition and higher fares, and therefore fewer visitors. I still remember when I had to travel via FRA/LHR/AMS to get to Portugal from the U.S. at exorbitant fare prices because of the lack of competition from a Portuguese carrier. I'd hate to have to do that again. Instead of visiting every year I only visited every 2-3 years.


So TAP's purpose is to subsidise tourists and expats on their trips to Portugal at the expense of the taxpayer like in some third world country?


You're missing the bigger picture...This potential take-over by Lufthansa/United is not good for Portugal, TAP and customers in general as it will tame the growth of an increasingly relevant TATL player - read more here: https://onemileatatime.com/lufthansa-un ... -portugal/
 
LXwing
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Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:13 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
LXwing wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

Tap Air Portugal


No, it is TAP Air Portugal (from Transportes Aéreos Portugueses)


Which are you saying here, TAP or T-A-P?


Why is it so difficult to understand that TAP (or T.A.P. or T-A-P) is an acronym and not a word? :confused:
 
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Polot
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Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:21 pm

LXwing wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
LXwing wrote:

No, it is TAP Air Portugal (from Transportes Aéreos Portugueses)


Which are you saying here, TAP or T-A-P?


Why is it so difficult to understand that TAP (or T.A.P. or T-A-P) is an acronym and not a word? :confused:

Is it still officially an acronym?
 
LXwing
Posts: 238
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Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:42 pm

Polot wrote:
LXwing wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

Which are you saying here, TAP or T-A-P?


Why is it so difficult to understand that TAP (or T.A.P. or T-A-P) is an acronym and not a word? :confused:

Is it still officially an acronym?


Yes, why wouldn't it be? The legal name of the company is Transportes Aéreos Portugueses, S.A. and TAP it's acronym.
 
tobsw
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Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:05 pm

The brand is TAP Air Portugal. TAP stands for Transportes Aéreos Portugueses. Hence, the branding is redundant; but it is how it is.
 
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Polot
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Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:08 pm

LXwing wrote:
Polot wrote:
LXwing wrote:

Why is it so difficult to understand that TAP (or T.A.P. or T-A-P) is an acronym and not a word? :confused:

Is it still officially an acronym?


Yes, why wouldn't it be? The legal name of the company is Transportes Aéreos Portugueses, S.A. and TAP it's acronym.

I wasn’t sure if the legal name was still Transportes Aéreos Portugueses. Many companies often drop their full name and legally brand themselves as just their acronym. Qantas for example, it is not Q.A.N.T.A.S. or Q-A-N-T-A-S.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:11 pm

Everyone calls it TAP and I agree it should be referred to as that.
 
kipfilet
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Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:20 pm

I am a Portuguese person living abroad and to argue that (average) Portuguese people have higher purchasing power than (average) Germans is absolutely laughable, and is probably coming from someone who is completely out of touch with the reality of the average Portuguese household. There is a significant right tail, but average/median incomes in Portugal are extremely low even in real terms. My guess is that the poster who claimed this comes from a relatively well off family; there is substantial income inequality in Portugal.

TAP is an acronym as others have pointed out and should therefore be written in all caps.
 
Naia
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Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:18 am

Pyrex wrote:
Naia wrote:
Last year: GRU-LIS almost 600.000 pessengers - TAP 14 to 18 weekly flights (A339) and Latam 5 to 7 weekly flights (763 and A359). VCP-LIS arround 250.000 passengers - 9 to 14 weekly flights (A332 and A339). GRU+VCP to LIS, more than 800.000 anual passengers. GRU-CDG and MAD, almost 600.000 to 650.000. GRU-FRA and LHR almost 500.000. GRU-FCO maybe 400.000.


And that is not even counting GRU/VCP-OPO (how many non-hub cities in Europe even have that?). Or all the other flights from LIS to Brazil. Or OPO-GIG.



Yeah! Just GRU-LIS (almost 600.000). VCP-LIS more than 200.000 (maybe 250.000 last year). GRU-OPO (3 weekly with A332)
registered about 70,000 passengers if i am not wrong. GIG-LIS almost 250.000 last year (just Tap, 9 to 12 weekly with A339). GIG-OPO (2 weekly with A332) registered about 55.000 passengers last year.

Remembering that in Viracopos airport, few passengers are from São Paulo and the metropolitan region. About 60% come from connections and more than 30% from Campinas, a rich city in Brazil, about 1.3 million inhabitants in the city and 3.5 million in the metropolitan region.
 
airbazar
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Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:10 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Yeah, I am in the same bucket. My sense is that airbazar is a Portuguese-descendant who was born and lives in the U.S. I know quite a few people like that, and they do tend to view "the homeland" (really, their parent's homeland) in rose-tinted glasses. Part of the reason is because a lot of what they know about Portugal they tend to hear from parents who left the country decades ago (people do sometimes have a tendency to remember the good times, often misleadingly, and forget the bad ones) and part of it is because their experience in Portugal is basically visiting relatives while on vacation (and everything looks better while you are in vacation and don't actually have to work). Also, the Portuguese-American community is a big part of their identity (something that really helped their parents integrate/adapt when they moved over, etc.), and again, that tends to be something that oversells the good and underplays the bad.


Actually I'm not. My family were refugees from Mozambique who arrived in Portugal in the mid 80's with nothing but the clothes on our back. My parents couldn't find a job in Portugal and immigrated, then returned to Portugal after retiring. I went to high school in Portugal (Tomar to be more specific) and then was lucky enough to get a scholarship to attend college in the U.S. and stayed here. I don't even identify with Portugal. I'm more Mozambican than Portuguese because that's where I grew up. I don't have a single Portuguese friend here in the U.S. living close to me. I don't mix with the Portuguese-American community. And I believe that being an outsider actually allows me to have a unbiased view of Portugal.

kipfilet wrote:
I am a Portuguese person living abroad and to argue that (average) Portuguese people have higher purchasing power than (average) Germans is absolutely laughable, and is probably coming from someone who is completely out of touch with the reality of the average Portuguese household. There is a significant right tail, but average/median incomes in Portugal are extremely low even in real terms. My guess is that the poster who claimed this comes from a relatively well off family; there is substantial income inequality in Portugal.

TAP is an acronym as others have pointed out and should therefore be written in all caps.


You and everyone else never read my full post obviously. I never compared a German with a Portuguese in absolute terms because that's like comparing apples to oranges. I was comparing purchasing power of an average Portuguese IN Portugal vs an average German IN Germany. Average meaning, not the wealthy and not the poor but someone in the middle class. Obviously if a Portuguese goes to Germany their money doesn't go as far but that is irrelevant because that's not where they live so why would their salaries be equivalent? People in Portugal love to whine about how their salaries are so much lower than in other countries. Well their cost of living is significantly lower too. The fact that half of the German population doesn't have enough money to buy a house should be enough evidence that in their respective countries the Portuguese come out on top.
I'll give you a concrete example: I have 2 friends. One works for Lufthansa customer service in Munich and the other for TAP in a comparable position in Lisbon. The one living in Munich lives in a 2 bedroom flat in Munich and the one working for TAP lives in a 2 bedroom duplex house with a yard and 2 dogs, walking distance to the Parede(Cascais) beach. The quality of life that the 2 have is not even comparable. Of course my German friend has a lot more spending money when he visits Portugal but that's besides the point.
And that's the end of this discussion for me. We'll just agree to disagree I guess :)
Last edited by airbazar on Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4786
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Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:12 pm

kipfilet wrote:
I am a Portuguese person living abroad and to argue that (average) Portuguese people have higher purchasing power than (average) Germans is absolutely laughable, and is probably coming from someone who is completely out of touch with the reality of the average Portuguese household. There is a significant right tail, but average/median incomes in Portugal are extremely low even in real terms. My guess is that the poster who claimed this comes from a relatively well off family; there is substantial income inequality in Portugal.

TAP is an acronym as others have pointed out and should therefore be written in all caps.


Yeah, I am in the same bucket. My sense is that airbazar is a Portuguese-descendant who was born and lives in the U.S. I know quite a few people like that, and they do tend to view "the homeland" (really, their parent's homeland) in rose-tinted glasses. Part of the reason is because a lot of what they know about Portugal they tend to hear from parents who left the country decades ago (people do sometimes have a tendency to remember the good times, often misleadingly, and forget the bad ones) and part of it is because their experience in Portugal is basically visiting relatives while on vacation (and everything looks better while you are in vacation and don't actually have to work). Also, the Portuguese-American community is a big part of their identity (something that really helped their parents integrate/adapt when they moved over, etc.), and again, that tends to be something that oversells the good and underplays the bad.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
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dash500
Posts: 106
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Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:49 pm

tobsw wrote:
The brand is TAP Air Portugal. TAP stands for Transportes Aéreos Portugueses. Hence, the branding is redundant; but it is how it is.


'Air Portugal' works for the brand (TAP) the same way 'Royal Dutch Airlines' does in KLM logo. For many years the company struggled to find a name that worked both internally and for the international public.

TAP tried different signatures over the years: TAP - Portuguese Airways, The Airline of Portugal, The Intercontinental Airline of Portugal.

In 1979, the idea was to have a short transition period to change the airline's name from TAP to simply Air Portugal (hence the 't' in the logo was not filled with color). But everyone in Portugal kept calling it just TAP: it's easy, short and everyone in Portugal knows what it refers to since there is no word "tap" in portuguese. For many years TAP Air Portugal was the effective name. In 2005 they changed the brand to TAP Portugal (I never liked it, must say) and 12 years later they found the same problems the company had in the 70s and returned to the previous commercial name.

But the legal name never changed since it was first incorporated in 1953. Only the type of corporation has changed:
§ June 1, 1953: "Transportes Aéreos Portugueses, S.A.R.L."
§ April 16,1975: "Transportes Aéreos Portugueses, E.P."
§ August 17, 1991: "Transportes Aéreos Portugueses, S.A."

The legal name of the parent company (incorporated in April 26, 2003) is "TAP - Transportes Aéreos Portugueses, SGPS, S.A.".
Last edited by dash500 on Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
kipfilet
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:44 pm

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:49 pm

airbazar wrote:
You and everyone else never read my full post obviously. I never compared a German with a Portuguese in absolute terms because that's like comparing apples to oranges. I was comparing purchasing power of an average Portuguese IN Portugal vs an average German IN Germany. Average meaning, not the wealthy and not the poor but someone in the middle class. Obviously if a Portuguese goes to Germany their money doesn't go as far but that is irrelevant because that's not where they live so why would their salaries be equivalent? People in Portugal love to whine about how their salaries are so much lower than in other countries. Well their cost of living is significantly lower too. The fact that half of the German population doesn't have enough money to buy a house should be enough evidence that in their respective countries the Portuguese come out on top.
I'll give you a concrete example: I have 2 friends. One works for Lufthansa customer service in Munich and the other for TAP in a comparable position in Lisbon. The one living in Munich lives in a 2 bedroom flat in Munich and the one working for TAP lives in a 2 bedroom duplex house with a yard and 2 dogs, walking distance to the Parede(Cascais) beach. The quality of life that the 2 have is not even comparable. Of course my German friend has a lot more spending money when he visits Portugal but that's besides the point.
And that's the end of this discussion for me. We'll just agree to disagree I guess :)


IMF data for 2019:
GDP per capita PPP in Germany: $53,567
GDP per capita PPP in Portugal: $33,665

This measure is:
(i) per capita, hence an average
(ii) PPP, hence adjusting for differences in purchasing power/price levels
An average German household has almost twice the purchasing power of an average Portuguese household, when accounting for cost of living.
I understand that you are trying to extrapolate from anecdotal evidence, but this is the data. I am talking about average people, not the select few who work for TAP or Lufthansa. Most people in Portugal could only dream of working for TAP or living in Parede. Heck, many young people in Portugal cannot even find a job (youth unemployment was 18% in 2019, one of the highest numbers in the OECD). Portugal is certainly wealthier than most other countries in the world, but it is still a poor country for European (particularly Western European) standards.
 
clipperlondon
Posts: 82
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Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:00 pm

jfk777 wrote:
All those new A330-900 and A321neoLR aren't free. Expanding to SFO, IAD and ORD has costs too. TAP is facing declining revenue in Brazil and startup cost to North America, no time for new markets to UA's hubs to develop.


Anyone who's familiar with a certain Live Air Spotters website and has seen the live Toulouse feeds over recent months will not be surprised. Airbuses of all kinds ready for delivery to TAP are pouring out of Airbus factory like British floodwaters. Where are they getting their money from? comes the frequent refrain...I wondered when this topic would come up on here.
 
clipperlondon
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Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:02 pm

goosebayguy wrote:
I visited Toulouse recently and was astounded by the number of TAP aircraft due for delivery. They seem to be going full steam ahead for expansion. Probably too full if you ask me. Seeing this loss doesn't surprise me. They have too much capacity

Seems I'm not the first to comment lol
.
 
TAP343
Posts: 24
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Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:44 pm

airbazar wrote:
Actually I'm not. My family were refugees from Mozambique who arrived in Portugal in the mid 80's with nothing but the clothes on our back. My parents couldn't find a job in Portugal and immigrated, then returned to Portugal after retiring. I went to high school in Portugal (Tomar to be more specific) and then was lucky enough to get a scholarship to attend college in the U.S. and stayed here. I don't even identify with Portugal. I'm more Mozambican than Portuguese because that's where I grew up. I don't have a single Portuguese friend here in the U.S. living close to me. I don't mix with the Portuguese-American community. And I believe that being an outsider actually allows me to have a unbiased view of Portugal.


I know that the Portuguese decolonisation in Africa was dramatic but calling your family "refugees" is a bit of a stretch. Your family didn't have to move, at least initially, to a foreign country and I would say the move was in the mid 70's when Mozambique became independent not in the mid 80's, considering that you left with nothing.

As for identifying yourself more as Mozambican than Portuguese, assuming that you are white, it's like someone saying that they identify more as Azoreans or Madeirans than Portuguese. Mozambique was part of Portugal and, again, if you are white, your cultural background is, most probably, almost identical to the one that any Portuguese from the mainland has.

I feel terribly sorry for those like you that lost, literally, everything during the African decolonisation done in the most absurd way. However, I don't feel sorry at all for the white Portuguese in Africa that enjoyed decades of a much higher standard of living than those born and living in the mainland based on black "slave labour".
 
dfpinto
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:48 pm

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:07 pm

clipperlondon wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
All those new A330-900 and A321neoLR aren't free. Expanding to SFO, IAD and ORD has costs too. TAP is facing declining revenue in Brazil and startup cost to North America, no time for new markets to UA's hubs to develop.


Anyone who's familiar with a certain Live Air Spotters website and has seen the live Toulouse feeds over recent months will not be surprised. Airbuses of all kinds ready for delivery to TAP are pouring out of Airbus factory like British floodwaters. Where are they getting their money from? comes the frequent refrain...I wondered when this topic would come up on here.


Here's why I have full trust in the current TP leadership and shareholder structure. While renewing their entire fleet, they managed to restructure and reduce their debt, expand into new markets, increase traffic, increase revenues, increase ASK, retrofit the cabins of existing fleet, shut down the maintenance facilities with the chronic losses in Brazil and a loooot more, and, with a hub in Lisbon, which is probably one of worst airports in Europe for a hub.

It is obvious to me that many people inside that company are working very hard and definitely should be entitled to receive the performance based bonus pay-out. The government on the other hand thinks it's unfair and wants Neeleman out of the shareholder structure. Why on earth would LH get on board with this kind of interference?
 
TAP343
Posts: 24
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Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:19 pm

dfpinto wrote:
Here's why I have full trust in the current TP leadership and shareholder structure. While renewing their entire fleet, they managed to restructure and reduce their debt, expand into new markets, increase traffic, increase revenues, increase ASK, retrofit the cabins of existing fleet, shut down the maintenance facilities with the chronic losses in Brazil and a loooot more, and, with a hub in Lisbon, which is probably one of worst airports in Europe for a hub.


TAP's debt increased.
 
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Polot
Posts: 10518
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Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:28 pm

dfpinto wrote:
clipperlondon wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
All those new A330-900 and A321neoLR aren't free. Expanding to SFO, IAD and ORD has costs too. TAP is facing declining revenue in Brazil and startup cost to North America, no time for new markets to UA's hubs to develop.


Anyone who's familiar with a certain Live Air Spotters website and has seen the live Toulouse feeds over recent months will not be surprised. Airbuses of all kinds ready for delivery to TAP are pouring out of Airbus factory like British floodwaters. Where are they getting their money from? comes the frequent refrain...I wondered when this topic would come up on here.


Here's why I have full trust in the current TP leadership and shareholder structure. While renewing their entire fleet, they managed to restructure and reduce their debt, expand into new markets, increase traffic, increase revenues, increase ASK, retrofit the cabins of existing fleet, shut down the maintenance facilities with the chronic losses in Brazil and a loooot more, and, with a hub in Lisbon, which is probably one of worst airports in Europe for a hub.

It is obvious to me that many people inside that company are working very hard and definitely should be entitled to receive the performance based bonus pay-out. The government on the other hand thinks it's unfair and wants Neeleman out of the shareholder structure. Why on earth would LH get on board with this kind of interference?

And with the information so far with TP’s recent expansion from A339s and A321LRs they have also increased losses as well. Metrics like new markets, increased traffic, increased revenue, and increased ASK are pointless if you are losing more money off those gains.

Adding new markets and increasing your fleet size (ASKs) should increase traffic and revenue because the airline is physically larger than it was before. It’s not hard to boost those stats as long as someone is willing to pay for the planes. The tricky part is making sure you boost those stats profitably (or in the case of TAP, while turning towards profitability).
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5677
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:07 pm

kipfilet wrote:
IMF data for 2019:
GDP per capita PPP in Germany: $53,567
GDP per capita PPP in Portugal: $33,665

This measure is:
(i) per capita, hence an average
(ii) PPP, hence adjusting for differences in purchasing power/price levels
An average German household has almost twice the purchasing power of an average Portuguese household, when accounting for cost of living.
I understand that you are trying to extrapolate from anecdotal evidence, but this is the data. I am talking about average people, not the select few who work for TAP or Lufthansa. Most people in Portugal could only dream of working for TAP or living in Parede. Heck, many young people in Portugal cannot even find a job (youth unemployment was 18% in 2019, one of the highest numbers in the OECD). Portugal is certainly wealthier than most other countries in the world, but it is still a poor country for European (particularly Western European) standards.


There are a lot of fans in this forum that will insult me when I post data that contradict their TP/PT cinderella stories. Even when I point out that traffic figures (particularly OPO) cannot be understood without taking into consideration the massive Portuguese migration / diaspora (in % higher than Bulgaria or Poland, for instance), they would just report me. There is nothing bad or good about the huge Portuguese diaspora; it is just the way it is. Maybe they will try to convince people that those trillions of daily flights from OPO to Paris, Geneva or Luxembourg are there to fly Portuguese for luxury shopping in place Vendôme or rue de Rhône :roll:

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... l_overview

Or when I posted the other day EU statistics showing that Norte region in Portugal (aka OPO) is one of the poorest regions in Western Europe. Lisbon is much wealthier because of the capital effect.

https://data.europa.eu/euodp/en/data/da ... RJP4KWTIrQ
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1043
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:15 pm

What service changes would be possible if the LH/UA acquisition occurs? Are we looking at a JV?
 
stylo777
Posts: 2808
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:06 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
kipfilet wrote:
IMF data for 2019:
GDP per capita PPP in Germany: $53,567
GDP per capita PPP in Portugal: $33,665

This measure is:
(i) per capita, hence an average
(ii) PPP, hence adjusting for differences in purchasing power/price levels
An average German household has almost twice the purchasing power of an average Portuguese household, when accounting for cost of living.
I understand that you are trying to extrapolate from anecdotal evidence, but this is the data. I am talking about average people, not the select few who work for TAP or Lufthansa. Most people in Portugal could only dream of working for TAP or living in Parede. Heck, many young people in Portugal cannot even find a job (youth unemployment was 18% in 2019, one of the highest numbers in the OECD). Portugal is certainly wealthier than most other countries in the world, but it is still a poor country for European (particularly Western European) standards.


There are a lot of fans in this forum that will insult me when I post data that contradict their TP/PT cinderella stories. Even when I point out that traffic figures (particularly OPO) cannot be understood without taking into consideration the massive Portuguese migration / diaspora (in % higher than Bulgaria or Poland, for instance), they would just report me. There is nothing bad or good about the huge Portuguese diaspora; it is just the way it is. Maybe they will try to convince people that those trillions of daily flights from OPO to Paris, Geneva or Luxembourg are there to fly Portuguese for luxury shopping in place Vendôme or rue de Rhône :roll:

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... l_overview

Or when I posted the other day EU statistics showing that Norte region in Portugal (aka OPO) is one of the poorest regions in Western Europe. Lisbon is much wealthier because of the capital effect.

https://data.europa.eu/euodp/en/data/da ... RJP4KWTIrQ

totally agree and I was particularly impressed by the huge diaspora of Portuguese living in Switzerland; in fact, there are multiple daily flights between both countries (not only ZRH-LIS, but also OPO, GVA, BSL). to underline this fact: we followed LX operating 77W to either LIS or OPO (I'm not sure...) last year during busy holiday season. hell, there are even flights from SIR to OPO - SIR being Sion, somewhere in the Swiss Alps I guess...
 
airbazar
Posts: 10116
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:43 pm

TAP343 wrote:
I know that the Portuguese decolonisation in Africa was dramatic but calling your family "refugees" is a bit of a stretch. Your family didn't have to move, at least initially, to a foreign country and I would say the move was in the mid 70's when Mozambique became independent not in the mid 80's, considering that you left with nothing..

You know nothing about me or my family so stop making stuff up. I just told you we left in the 80's not during decolonization, during the civil war and at a time when people with different political opinions were sent to prison never to be seen again. We were Mozambican citizens not Portuguese citizens but were lucky to have friends and family in Portugal who helped us leave and took care of us and a country that embraced us and for that I am eternally grateful. The end.
 
TAP343
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:20 pm

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:27 am

airbazar wrote:
TAP343 wrote:
I know that the Portuguese decolonisation in Africa was dramatic but calling your family "refugees" is a bit of a stretch. Your family didn't have to move, at least initially, to a foreign country and I would say the move was in the mid 70's when Mozambique became independent not in the mid 80's, considering that you left with nothing..

You know nothing about me or my family so stop making stuff up. I just told you we left in the 80's not during decolonization, during the civil war and at a time when people with different political opinions were sent to prison never to be seen again. We were Mozambican citizens not Portuguese citizens but were lucky to have friends and family in Portugal who helped us leave and took care of us and a country that embraced us and for that I am eternally grateful. The end.


Sorry about that. I thought you and your family were some of the so-called "retornados".

Meanwhile, the rumours have reached Germany:

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Lufthansa (LHAG.DE) and United Airlines (UAL.O) are considering taking over TAP-Air Portugal, a German newspaper reported on Wednesday.

Sueddeutsche Zeitung, citing unidentified corporate sources, said talks were not close to a conclusion and the process could take some time.


https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-tap-m-a-lufthansa-united/lufthansa-and-united-weigh-takeover-of-portugals-tap-sueddeutsche-idUSKCN20K2F8
 
LupineChemist
Posts: 821
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:03 am

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:48 pm

Given the size of the Argentina-Spain market, I'm surprised they can't make EZE work. Yeah, hard to compete with the direct to Madrid but a huge portion connect to other destination in Spain. It's slightly shorter to connect in LIS to head up to LCG, for example.
 
TAP343
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:20 pm

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:22 pm

LupineChemist wrote:
Given the size of the Argentina-Spain market, I'm surprised they can't make EZE work. Yeah, hard to compete with the direct to Madrid but a huge portion connect to other destination in Spain. It's slightly shorter to connect in LIS to head up to LCG, for example.


Maybe TAP can't make EZE work because Argentina is in a recession yet again besides all the competition.
 
aviationlover7
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:35 am

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:54 am

Any further developments on this topic?
Perhaps the Covid-19 crisis may affect the negotiations?
Thoughts?
 
User avatar
Terrier79
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:44 am

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:25 am

aviationlover7 wrote:
Any further developments on this topic?
Perhaps the Covid-19 crisis may affect the negotiations?
Thoughts?

I think it’s pretty safe to say that in these times of a worldwide crisis, where all airlines have to take every measure of to secure sufficient liquid funds, and where all management capacities are needed to get through the crisis in the least bad way, there will not be much if not no activity in regards to any takeovers.

After the crisis, consolidation will likely go fast and the strongest survivors of the crisis will pick the cherries.
 
aviationlover7
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:35 am

TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Sat May 02, 2020 9:46 am

Hi,

It seems like the Portuguese Government is not happy with David Neeleman's proposal to get bank loans with Gov. guarantees. Is nationalization the only option left?

Source (only in Portuguese):
https://expresso.pt/economia/2020-05-01 ... para-a-TAP
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1921
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Sat May 02, 2020 11:27 am

Or liquidation. TAP benefited from Portugal's popularity as a destination in its own right and as a stop over and transit point. Non absolutely essential travel, for 2020 at least, is dead. Portugal isn't a massive business destination. I just don't see TP survive without full nationalization down the road.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5677
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Mon May 04, 2020 9:55 pm

TAP has relaunched some routes:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-30apr20/

Routes that are not restarting are immediately are:

From LIS: Alicante, Banjul, Boa Vista, Bologna, Budapest, Caracas, Chicago, Fes, Florence, London Gatwick, Moscow, Nantes, Naples, New York JFK, Porto Alegre, San Francisco, Tangier, Washington.

From OPO: Amsterdam, Brussels, Geneva, Luxembourg, Madrid, Milan, Munich, Newark, Ponta Delgada, Rio de Janeiro, Sal, São Paulo, Zürich

From LIS, in addition to the US and some countries that might be still totally or partially closed (Russia, Cabo Verde, Venezuela), could the other ones be underperforming routes and prime candidates to be chopped?: Alicante, Banjul, Bologna, Budapest, Fes, Florence, LGW, Nantes, Naples, Porto Alegre, Tangiers.

From OPO they only keep LON, PAR, LIS and Madeira. Will TAP close their mini hub at OPO? The only reason for OPO as a second TAP hub was LIS being full. Now that is not a problem anymore.
 
Blerg
Posts: 3976
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Tue May 05, 2020 4:52 am

One good thing for TP is that LIS will not be as congested as before. They could use this opportunity to take some good slots they could use in the future. I am sure Lisbon won't be among the first destinations where airlines will flock, especially not with tourism on hold for the time being.
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 3533
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Tue May 05, 2020 1:55 pm

This is where TAP got caught in a bad spot renewing its fleet now, although it was needed. The A21N might end up being a workhorse to Africa (besides Maputo) and North America (besides Miami). The A321XLR could potentially make Maputo.
 
goosebayguy
Posts: 705
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:12 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Tue May 05, 2020 4:37 pm

I visited TLS last summer and was really surprised by the large number of aircraft in TP colours. I then looked up what they had ordered and was again surprised. My thoughts were how can they possibly be buying all these A330's? Portugal has a very small economy so even the Government would struggle to keep TP supported.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4305
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Wed May 06, 2020 5:11 pm

I actually am finding TAP to be among the most mature and dynamic in handling the crisis along with potentially Emirates and SQ. Instead of flying to politically high profile places like Brasil and Angola, they immediately suspended their operations aligned with government rules, and likely balance sheet. I never thought I'd see a day where TP would stop Brasil, while LH/AF continued!

If you follow their pricing policies close in, they are clearly testing markets, and having no issues walking away from things that don't make sense. I am also finding their pricing higher on several core routes than competitors which reflect that they clearly do not believe consumers are buying air tickets and finding discounting pointless.

They have a very good management, so besides the usual left wing rhetoric we see in Portugal, I am sure TAP may actually be one of the winners here. The 321-LR is arguably the right aircraft to begin operations, especially to North America, North East Brasil, and Africa. No other airline can achieve that without exposing high gauge widebody fleet.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
Tdan
Posts: 525
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:36 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Thu May 07, 2020 11:41 am

abrelosojos wrote:
I actually am finding TAP to be among the most mature and dynamic in handling the crisis along with potentially Emirates and SQ. Instead of flying to politically high profile places like Brasil and Angola, they immediately suspended their operations aligned with government rules, and likely balance sheet. I never thought I'd see a day where TP would stop Brasil, while LH/AF continued!

If you follow their pricing policies close in, they are clearly testing markets, and having no issues walking away from things that don't make sense. I am also finding their pricing higher on several core routes than competitors which reflect that they clearly do not believe consumers are buying air tickets and finding discounting pointless.

They have a very good management, so besides the usual left wing rhetoric we see in Portugal, I am sure TAP may actually be one of the winners here. The 321-LR is arguably the right aircraft to begin operations, especially to North America, North East Brasil, and Africa. No other airline can achieve that without exposing high gauge widebody fleet.

Saludos,
Alex


Their issue is not tactical in nature, but rather timing and broader strategy. The cash cost of the fleet rollover is at its most critical period when utilization should be ~17h on the A330NEOs. Add to that the mixed funding mechanisms required to roll the fleet in such a short period of time and you have an airline that has no choice but to fly. The pricing and tactics you describe make a difference at the margin but do not materially impact the current cash burn rate.

Not sure I see how TAP survives without nationalization or significant reinvestment without a Summer season. They needed to print cash more than anything this summer and will not have that opportunity. Portugal is in a tough spot to come up with the funds and I’m not sure Neeleman is as engaged as before with Breeze sitting on a golden opportunity in the states.
We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
 
airbazar
Posts: 10116
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Thu May 07, 2020 12:08 pm

Tdan wrote:
Not sure I see how TAP survives without nationalization or significant reinvestment without a Summer season. They needed to print cash more than anything this summer and will not have that opportunity. Portugal is in a tough spot to come up with the funds and I’m not sure Neeleman is as engaged as before with Breeze sitting on a golden opportunity in the states.

Right now nationalization appears to be off the table. From what I gather there's little appetite in Portugal to nationalize the airline. All indicators point to a rescue plan by the government like all other governments are doing for their home airlines. I suspect the delay has more to do with regional politics than actual financial factor as in Portugal every time there is a discussion around TAP, the Porto vs. Lisbon politics tend to drag things longer than necessary.

And on the topic of foreign visitors to Portugal, this article in Forbes shows that the country is well ahead of anyone else in the region when it comes to opening up for tourism. Whether the tourists will come or not is a different story.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/annabel/20 ... 18a3542bb2
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5677
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Thu May 07, 2020 12:30 pm

Tdan wrote:
Not sure I see how TAP survives without nationalization or significant reinvestment without a Summer season. They needed to print cash more than anything this summer and will not have that opportunity. Portugal is in a tough spot to come up with the funds and I’m not sure Neeleman is as engaged as before with Breeze sitting on a golden opportunity in the states.


They lost money in 2019 where everybody else was in positive numbers.

viewtopic.php?t=1431749

I see a government rescue as problematic with the current TAP and Portugal within the EU. TAP is a huge carrier for a small country like Portugal; more akin to Emirates or KLM than to Lufthansa or Iberia.

Germany has to rescue Lufthansa. Portugal has to rescue TAP. The problem with Portugal rescuing somebody is that that money ultimately comes from the EU (aka Germany). Will Germany allow Portugal to rescue TAP so TAP can keep undercutting Lufthansa's fares?

Not saying that TAP will disappear, but they might obligate them to return to a more "ratiional" size. And not the current TAP that was to have 5 daily New York flights this summer.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3533
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Thu May 07, 2020 1:11 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Tdan wrote:
Not sure I see how TAP survives without nationalization or significant reinvestment without a Summer season. They needed to print cash more than anything this summer and will not have that opportunity. Portugal is in a tough spot to come up with the funds and I’m not sure Neeleman is as engaged as before with Breeze sitting on a golden opportunity in the states.


They lost money in 2019 where everybody else was in positive numbers.

viewtopic.php?t=1431749

I see a government rescue as problematic with the current TAP and Portugal within the EU. TAP is a huge carrier for a small country like Portugal; more akin to Emirates or KLM than to Lufthansa or Iberia.

Germany has to rescue Lufthansa. Portugal has to rescue TAP. The problem with Portugal rescuing somebody is that that money ultimately comes from the EU (aka Germany). Will Germany allow Portugal to rescue TAP so TAP can keep undercutting Lufthansa's fares?

Not saying that TAP will disappear, but they might obligate them to return to a more "ratiional" size. And not the current TAP that was to have 5 daily New York flights this summer.


5 daily flights to New York? I know it was EWR (2x LIS, 1x OPO), and JFK-LIS (OPO A21N, everything else A339), but where was the 5th frequency? At least they got some sense and are down-sizing to just 1 daily (from July) A21N, but they now have way too many wide-bodies (19 A339s and 7 A332s)...and not enough long-haul configured A21Ns (although theoretically, some of the Europe-configured Cabin Flex frames could be reconfigured internationally).
 
airbazar
Posts: 10116
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Thu May 07, 2020 2:22 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Germany has to rescue Lufthansa. Portugal has to rescue TAP. The problem with Portugal rescuing somebody is that that money ultimately comes from the EU (aka Germany). Will Germany allow Portugal to rescue TAP so TAP can keep undercutting Lufthansa's fares?

Not saying that TAP will disappear, but they might obligate them to return to a more "ratiional" size. And not the current TAP that was to have 5 daily New York flights this summer.


That's a pretty ignorant statement.
For starters Portugal buys far more from Germany than Germany buys from Portugal. That shiny new Airbus fleet didn't come cheap.
In 2018 the EU (not Germany) spent 5 billion Euros in Portugal, or the equivalent of 2.55% of GDP.
By contrast travel and tourism accounted for 19.1% of GDP in 2018.
The Netherlands was/is the largest per capita contributor to the EU budget (not Germany). So I suppose, according to your thought process the Dutch should deny Germany's rescue to Lufthansa :lol:
It's not that black and white. That's the whole point of a Union. It goes both ways.
As for the 5 daily flights to NYC, it's just as absurd as the LH group's 5 daily flights they were planning to BOS for this Summer. Personally I don't think either is absurd if the market exists.
 
danipawa
Posts: 430
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:18 am

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Thu May 14, 2020 8:02 pm

Airbus A320 -214 2178 CS-TNP TAP Air Portugal for return to lessor mid-jun20, parked at FAO (+ A321‑211 1713 CS-TJG in late-jun20, parked at LIS) ex 9H-AER

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4
 
User avatar
mercure1
Topic Author
Posts: 4758
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Thu May 21, 2020 6:07 pm

TAP says that it could lose up to 1,700 workers and more than 30 planes, reducing its fleet by 25% as part of restructuring.
mercure f-wtcc
 
User avatar
AECM
Posts: 313
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:52 am

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Thu May 21, 2020 6:21 pm

If possible i think the reduction of the fleet will be made by accelerating the retirement of the older aircraft, TAP currently has 17 x A319 with an average age of 20,5 years and 10 x A320CEO that are between 16 and 21 years old. Also the 4 x EMB195 were also planned to leave, the 8 x AT72 will probably shrink and the remaining 7 x A332 with the operating cost of the A339 being similar can also be a possibility.
 
AF022
Posts: 1858
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:41 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Thu May 21, 2020 8:01 pm

mercure1 wrote:
TAP says that it could lose up to 1,700 workers and more than 30 planes, reducing its fleet by 25% as part of restructuring.


What routes are most likely to be abandoned? Are they talking about giving up wide-body, narrow-body, or both?
 
airbazar
Posts: 10116
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Thu May 21, 2020 8:54 pm

AF022 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
TAP says that it could lose up to 1,700 workers and more than 30 planes, reducing its fleet by 25% as part of restructuring.


What routes are most likely to be abandoned? Are they talking about giving up wide-body, narrow-body, or both?

No idea what routes will be given up. A 25% reduction in aircraft could also translate into fewer frequencies.
The following article states 8 long haul and 23 short haul aircraft which is in line with the suggestion that was made above by 'AECM' that they will just retire the oldest planes in the fleet.
https://rr.sapo.pt/2020/05/20/economia/ ... ia/193513/

factsonly wrote:
An often repeated mistake is to look at the geographic size of a country, when it is the size of a nation's economy that determines airline size.

In my opinion it's neither although having both a large economy and a large population should in theory help but not always. Case in point: Italy, Brazil, South Africa, Indonesia, India, etc, etc, etc. Heck even France. When was the last time AF (without KL), turned a profit?
At the end of the day a company will succeed if it's well managed and fail if it's poorly managed. In this particular sector an airline from a small country can succeed. KLM is a good example: The majority of KLM fliers are not Dutch. Likewise, the majority of TAP's fliers are not Portuguese. ET is another good example. It's a well run and profitable airline, about the same size as TAP but based in a country where the per capita GDP is barely $1,000.
If an airline is well managed and it has a well managed supporting infrastructure, it doesn't matter where its hub is located (economically).
In the case of TAP, that doesn't happen. I think the airline is decently managed now but they are handicapped by decades of poor management and government interference, and the complete lack of anything resembling a modern and efficient hub from which to operate. It's impossible for it to even turn a profit when it constantly has to pay out penalties for delayed or cancelled flights, lost luggage, or when its labor goes on strike every year.
If the country were to fix the airport situation and the government stop pandering to labor every election year, TAP might have a chance.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5677
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Fri May 22, 2020 6:35 am

AF022 wrote:
What routes are most likely to be abandoned? Are they talking about giving up wide-body, narrow-body, or both?


Given how disproportionally big TAP is for a country like Portugal, I think it is easy to achieve that:

1) The OPO hub. TAP was building OPO as a second hub with some connectivity and +15 routes. For instance they were able to sell MAD-OPO-EWR with reasonable times. It is worth noting that now that flights have resumed for TAP, they have resumed most routes out of LIS and only 2 international routes out of OPO (Paris and London), plus LIS and islands. OPO was an anomaly, when you see the likes of British Airways, Iberia or Air France (in much bigger countries) not bothering with a second international hub.

2) Thin routes. Last year already TAP cut a few recent routes (CGN, BSL, FEZ, OTP, LFW, etc). Some of those routes like Fez or Lomé were what I have called before pure Turkish/Emirates style (what is the local market between Lisbon and Fes/Lomé?).

3) Over-served routes. I have mentioned previously the case of New York. TAP was to fly this summer 4 or 5 NYC flights. It should be easy to cut frequencies here and there.
 
continental004
Posts: 430
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:53 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Fri May 22, 2020 6:51 am

SCQ83 wrote:
AF022 wrote:
What routes are most likely to be abandoned? Are they talking about giving up wide-body, narrow-body, or both?


Given how disproportionally big TAP is for a country like Portugal, I think it is easy to achieve that:

1) The OPO hub. TAP was building OPO as a second hub with some connectivity and +15 routes. For instance they were able to sell MAD-OPO-EWR with reasonable times. It is worth noting that now that flights have resumed for TAP, they have resumed most routes out of LIS and only 2 international routes out of OPO (Paris and London), plus LIS and islands. OPO was an anomaly, when you see the likes of British Airways, Iberia or Air France (in much bigger countries) not bothering with a second international hub.

2) Thin routes. Last year already TAP cut a few recent routes (CGN, BSL, FEZ, OTP, LFW, etc). Some of those routes like Fez or Lomé were what I have called before pure Turkish/Emirates style (what is the local market between Lisbon and Fes/Lomé?).

3) Over-served routes. I have mentioned previously the case of New York. TAP was to fly this summer 4 or 5 NYC flights. It should be easy to cut frequencies here and there.


The OPO hub only got as big as it did because LIS is too small and congested for expansion in pre-Covid times.

LGW served as an secondary international hub for BA with a number of long haul routes.
 
jmmadrid
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:00 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Fri May 22, 2020 6:53 am

SCQ83 wrote:
AF022 wrote:
What routes are most likely to be abandoned? Are they talking about giving up wide-body, narrow-body, or both?


Given how disproportionally big TAP is for a country like Portugal, I think it is easy to achieve that:

1) The OPO hub. TAP was building OPO as a second hub with some connectivity and +15 routes. For instance they were able to sell MAD-OPO-EWR with reasonable times. It is worth noting that now that flights have resumed for TAP, they have resumed most routes out of LIS and only 2 international routes out of OPO (Paris and London), plus LIS and islands. OPO was an anomaly, when you see the likes of British Airways, Iberia or Air France (in much bigger countries) not bothering with a second international hub.

2) Thin routes. Last year already TAP cut a few recent routes (CGN, BSL, FEZ, OTP, LFW, etc). Some of those routes like Fez or Lomé were what I have called before pure Turkish/Emirates style (what is the local market between Lisbon and Fes/Lomé?).

3) Over-served routes. I have mentioned previously the case of New York. TAP was to fly this summer 4 or 5 NYC flights. It should be easy to cut frequencies here and there.


In addition, TAP were always the cheapest option in those "connecting" routes they offered. It was easy to find good deals even a few days before the flight. Maybe it's a good time to focus on yields?
 
ehusmann
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:19 am

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Fri May 22, 2020 6:59 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Given how disproportionally big TAP is for a country like Portugal, I think it is easy to achieve that:


Add to that:
4) Brazil... the way that country is handling the COVID crisis, it will take a long time to recover. And with that being one of the most important markets for TAP, it will take a big hit. That could easily account for all the A332 flights that need to be scrapped.

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