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abrelosojos
Posts: 4331
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:25 am

AngelsDecay wrote:
And seems to (wishing once again) start/restart Conakry and Mauritania too (Nouackchott).


AngelsDecay wrote:
There is also some inside rumours TAP may start after Covid raging waters and when things starts to calm down, Lima, Mumbai, Guangzhou, Addis Abeba and Kuala Lumpur.


= What? Man, someone is pulling your leg inside TAP. Haha. Noukachott, Addis, Mumbai, Kuala Lumpur? Really?

Saludos,
Alex
 
efpmeneses
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:39 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:36 am

Not seeing that to happen

Conakry would be normal to return, because it was already operating, unless the bailout forces TAP to cut it

Lima was talked for some time, but don't believe it to happen anytime soon...

All the others..... Think it is not possible that they are in the front at the list of studies for next routes to open.

Enviado do meu ASUS_I01WD através do Tapatalk
 
efpmeneses
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:39 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:36 am

Not seeing that to happen

Conakry would be normal to return, because it was already operating, unless the bailout forces TAP to cut it

Lima was talked for some time, but don't believe it to happen anytime soon...

All the others..... Think it is not possible that they are in the front at the list of studies for next routes to open.

Enviado do meu ASUS_I01WD através do Tapatalk
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5891
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:46 am

I think Lima could make sense once things are "back to normal".

The Peruvian community in Spain is big and it is quite spread all over the country. Also in Italy is important. So in addition to the obvious MAD connections, they could get anything (VLC-LIS-LIM, MXP-LIS-LIM, etc.). That is where TAP's big network in ES/IT would be an advantage.

Peru is arguably the main tourism destination in that part of Latin America (Machu Picchu). That is why recently BA started LGW-LIM. So they could get connections from all over Europe.

So it would be a mix of VFR/tourism which doesn't seem too bad in the new normal.
 
efpmeneses
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:39 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:41 pm

I agree that Lima could be a good news adiction.. but I don't see them opening it soon, unless they need to find a way os keeping the A330-900 used, now that all the A339 might be too much now, because of the lower frequency of flights on routes that were already working.

In fact I always thought that, if they had opened some more routes to Spanish speaking south America countries, that could have worked and would help to keep some short hop flights that they had from Spain to Lisbon (la coruña, Vigo and oviedo).

But nowadays... Don't think new South American routes will be a reality in the next couple of years... Tap needs to present a restructuring plan to EU so.....

It was talked that Bogota could return as well, and Buenos Aires could be lunch, but.....

Enviado do meu ASUS_I01WD através do Tapatalk
 
RainerBoeing777
Posts: 593
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:43 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:00 pm

abrelosojos wrote:
AngelsDecay wrote:
And seems to (wishing once again) start/restart Conakry and Mauritania too (Nouackchott).


AngelsDecay wrote:
There is also some inside rumours TAP may start after Covid raging waters and when things starts to calm down, Lima, Mumbai, Guangzhou, Addis Abeba and Kuala Lumpur.


= What? Man, someone is pulling your leg inside TAP. Haha. Noukachott, Addis, Mumbai, Kuala Lumpur? Really?

Saludos,
Alex


Addis Ababa would be a good destination, they have their partner Ethiopian Airlines from their alliance with Star Alliance
In ADD they would have many connections to destinations in Portuguese colonies such as Angola or Mozambique, even popular destinations to South Africa
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5891
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:26 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Addis Ababa would be a good destination, they have their partner Ethiopian Airlines from their alliance with Star Alliance
In ADD they would have many connections to destinations in Portuguese colonies such as Angola or Mozambique, even popular destinations to South Africa


I thought Ethiopian already flew to Lisbon (via MAD). Maybe this has changed now with COVID.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5891
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:02 pm

offloaded wrote:
Not everyone is thrilled with TP dumping OPO, and I'm not sure why they can't make it work. Porto metropolitan area population 1.7m vs. Lisbon's 2.8m.


Emirates is dumping OPO, as well as United. However passengers will be still able to fly EK connecting with TAP via... LIS. 8-)

https://www.presstur.com/empresas---neg ... ia-lisboa/

EMIRATES PREVÊ PARA O PRÓXIMO VERÃO LIGAR O PORTO AO DUBAI VIA LISBOA


So it doesn't seem that TAP has something against OPO. It is just that it was a bubble that has popped. Once you pop, you just can't stop.
 
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lesfalls
Posts: 3562
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Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:37 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Addis Ababa would be a good destination, they have their partner Ethiopian Airlines from their alliance with Star Alliance
In ADD they would have many connections to destinations in Portuguese colonies such as Angola or Mozambique, even popular destinations to South Africa


I thought Ethiopian already flew to Lisbon (via MAD). Maybe this has changed now with COVID.


They were supposed to start LIS but never launched it in the end. For a month it was visible in their inflight magazine as a future destination (around 2 years ago if I'm not mistaken).
 
AngelsDecay
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:19 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:41 am

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
abrelosojos wrote:
AngelsDecay wrote:
And seems to (wishing once again) start/restart Conakry and Mauritania too (Nouackchott).


AngelsDecay wrote:
There is also some inside rumours TAP may start after Covid raging waters and when things starts to calm down, Lima, Mumbai, Guangzhou, Addis Abeba and Kuala Lumpur.


= What? Man, someone is pulling your leg inside TAP. Haha. Noukachott, Addis, Mumbai, Kuala Lumpur? Really?

Saludos,
Alex


Addis Ababa would be a good destination, they have their partner Ethiopian Airlines from their alliance with Star Alliance
In ADD they would have many connections to destinations in Portuguese colonies such as Angola or Mozambique, even popular destinations to South Africa


Ok, you could forget KL, but just for your info TAP still has in mind Mauritania for many years....as Conackry...even this was debated here for a couple of times, as well as ADD

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1423359&p=21384279&hilit=Nouakchott+TAP#p21384279
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5891
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:55 am

lesfalls wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Addis Ababa would be a good destination, they have their partner Ethiopian Airlines from their alliance with Star Alliance
In ADD they would have many connections to destinations in Portuguese colonies such as Angola or Mozambique, even popular destinations to South Africa


I thought Ethiopian already flew to Lisbon (via MAD). Maybe this has changed now with COVID.


They were supposed to start LIS but never launched it in the end. For a month it was visible in their inflight magazine as a future destination (around 2 years ago if I'm not mistaken).


Thanks. I think it was indeed that time a while ago that Ethiopian also announced BCN, and they even operated for a few months ADD-MAD-BCN (!). But it seems they ditched their plans for BCN/LIS and focused on MAD as their only destination in the Iberian peninsula.
 
SCQ83
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Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:09 pm

It seems that in addition to the already cancelled AMS, BCN, BRU, GVA, LYS, MAD, MUC and MXP, TAP is also discontinuing OPO to Luxembourg and Zurich in a couple of weeks. Flights for sale end October 18, 2020. The only two remaining European destinations (for the time being) from OPO will be LGW and ORY.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10525
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Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:11 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
So it doesn't seem that TAP has something against OPO. It is just that it was a bubble that has popped. Once you pop, you just can't stop.

We're in a Pandemic. The bubble at OPO as popped as much as in any other city in the World that has seen a 90% drop in traffic. i don't think it is as much a OPO bubble as much as a Global bubble.
 
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mercure1
Topic Author
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Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:55 pm

Portuguese State strengthening its position from 50% to 72.5% in TAP. With this, David Neeleman Atlantic Gateway Consortium exited the shareholding of TAP entirely.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5891
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Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:25 pm

airbazar wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
So it doesn't seem that TAP has something against OPO. It is just that it was a bubble that has popped. Once you pop, you just can't stop.

We're in a Pandemic. The bubble at OPO as popped as much as in any other city in the World that has seen a 90% drop in traffic. i don't think it is as much a OPO bubble as much as a Global bubble.


Let's do an exercise. Let's compare OPO to LIS YoY into 2021 the easy way; with Wiki; save some mistake. Some cancellations are before COVID (as well as additions):

Cancelled routes in OPO.

- Algiers (Air Algerie; carrier is gone)
- Amsterdam (TAP)
- Brive (Ryanair)
- Brussels (TAP)
- Copenhagen (Ryanair)
- Dubai (Emirates; carrier is gone)
- Geneva (TAP)
- Katowice (Wizz Air)
- La Rochelle (Ryanair)
- Lille (Ryanair)
- Luxembourg (TAP)
- Madrid (TAP)
- Milan MXP (TAP)
- Munich (TAP)
- Naples (Ryanair)
- New York EWR (United; carrier is gone)
- Nuremberg (Ryanair)
- Sao Paulo Campinas (Azul; carrier is gone)
- Stuttgart (Lauda/Ryanair)
- Venice-Treviso (Ryanair)
- Vienna (Level; carrier is gone)
- Wroclaw (Wizz Air)
- Zurich (TAP)

New routes in OPO

- Berlin (easyJet)
- Dortmund (Wizz Air)
- Grenoble (Ryanair)
- Milan MXP (Wizz Air)
- Montpellier (easyJet)
- Sal (TAP)

Cancelled routes in LIS

- Amsterdam (Level, carrier is gone)
- Fez (TAP)
- Hamburg (Ryanair)
- Lourdes (Ryanair)
- Pisa (Ryanair)
- Zagreb (Croatia; carrier is gone)
- Zurich (easyJet)

New routes in LIS

- Agadir (TAP)
- Belgrade (Wizz Air)
- Birmingham (Jet2)
- Cancún (TAP)
- Cape Town (TAP)
- Djerba (TAP)
- Doncaster (Wizz Air)
- Dortmund (Wizz Air)
- Fuerteventura (TAP)
- Gran Canaria (Binter)
- Ibiza (TAP)
- Kiev (SkyUp)
- Leeds (Jet2)
- Lviv (Wizz Air)
- Maceió (TAP)
- Manchester (Jet2)
- Milan MXP (Wizz Air)
- Monastir (TAP)
- Montpellier (Transavia)
- Oujda (TAP)
- Praia (Azores)
- Santiago de Compostela (TAP)
- Zagreb (TAP)

In addition:

- Royal Air Maroc has yet to restart the OPO route. In Iberia they have restarted everything but OPO (MAD, BCN, LIS, AGP, VLC are already flying)
- TAAG has yet to restart the OPO route (yet they have restarted LAD-LIS).
- Turkish has yet to restart the OPO route. In Iberia they have restarted everything but OPO and BIO (MAD, BCN, LIS, AGP, VLC are already flying)

It is easy to spot which list is longer. But it is not about quantity but about quality. OPO has lost its "prestige" routes (Emirates, daily United in summer. Azul). The only remaining long-haul carriers at this stage are Air Canada / Air Transat to serve the huge Northern Portuguese diaspora in Canada (and tbh those carriers fly a bit everywhere; even to places like ZAG or TLS). LIS has not only kept TAP's big long-haul network, but everyone else is staying put (US3, EK, QR, LATAM/Azul, Hainan). Also the variety of destinations outside OPO's core market (read: Portuguese diaspora - Benelux, France, Germany, Spain, Switzerland, UK -) was comparatively small and is shrinking. For instance, OPO will have no more flights to Scandinavia. Minimal Eastern European network. For instance Eastern Europe:

OPO:

- Budapest (year-round with FR; seasonal W6)
- Krakow (FR)
- Warsaw (seasonal FR/W6)

LIS:

- Belgrade (W6)
- Bucharest (Blue Air, Wizz, W6)
- Budapest (FR, W6, TAP)
- Chisinau (Air Moldova, FlyOne)
- Gdansk (W6 seasonal)
- Katowice (W6 seasonal)
- Krakow (FR)
- Kiev (SkyUp, W6)
- Lviv (W6)
- Moscow DME (TAP)
- Moscow SVO (Aeroflot)
- Prague (TAP)
- Riga (Aer Baltic)
- Sofia (seasonal Bulgaria Air, W6)
- Warsaw (W6, FR, TAP)
- Zagreb (TAP)

For an airport that their locals wishful thought that it was comparable to Lisbon (because there are many Mercedes in Porto as I had read here :D) and that thought themselves as way above cities like Alicante, Seville or Valencia... it seems that it wasn't. Or maybe all those carriers are wrong (not only TAP). Once you pop, there is no stop.
 
Pt56
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:57 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:12 am

Talking about bursting bubbles, I'm sad to report to SCQ that Portuguese mainland airport that has faird better in terms of travel % recovery post travel ban as been OPO..

Now what makes you have such a care for OPO I can only imagine...

The concept of an airport Beeing a bubble is silly its not a speculative thing they sell there, it's air travel and people are willing or not to use it it's a product almost a commodity these days ... the growth as been of passengers so real people wanted to use the airport and the region it serves.
If this is a nuisance to SCQ that's his problem...

Fact of the mater is that in the ctachment area of the airport is fairly big and has alot of VFR travel. Combined with lots of recent tourism made it grown quite a bit. Would it keep on growing like that? Probably not as most of Europe destinations are fairly well covered, and transatlantic destinations are higher risk and the area is not exactly rich..

But the concept an airport being a bubble is absurd. And I don't heven know how to apply it to airport... Would people buy tickets speculatively in hope of future ressale price making up for it???
Last edited by Pt56 on Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:33 am, edited 5 times in total.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1992
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Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:15 am

I didn’t see UA cancelled OPO at all.
 
offloaded
Posts: 985
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Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:45 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Addis Ababa would be a good destination, they have their partner Ethiopian Airlines from their alliance with Star Alliance
In ADD they would have many connections to destinations in Portuguese colonies such as Angola or Mozambique, even popular destinations to South Africa


I thought Ethiopian already flew to Lisbon (via MAD). Maybe this has changed now with COVID.


AFAIK ET metal doesn't continue on to LIS.

But back to TP..... It seems that APAVT (Portuguese Travel Agents Assoc) is in discussion with TP regarding outstanding refunds to it's members. There is talk of them trying to pay in 15 installments. Personally that sounds like a total bureaucratic nightmare, but if the alternative is no refund at all....
 
airbazar
Posts: 10525
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:52 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Let's do an exercise. Let's compare OPO to LIS YoY into 2021 the easy way; with Wiki; save some mistake. Some cancellations are before COVID (as well as additions):

It's absurd, and borderline ignorant to compare a small O&D airport with a "major" hub airport.
There might very well have been a bubble but we'll never know because most of the cancellations are indeed, whether you believe it or not, due to a global Pandemic that has affected the travel industry globally.
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I didn’t see UA cancelled OPO at all.

It wasn't. He's making stuff up to suite his argument.
UA's OPO flight was seasonal and like so many routes, the OPO route was suspended for the Summer of 2020.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5891
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:25 pm

Pt56 wrote:
Talking about bursting bubbles, I'm sad to report to SCQ that Portuguese mainland airport that has faird better in terms of travel % recovery post travel ban as been OPO..

Now what makes you have such a care for OPO I can only imagine...

The concept of an airport Beeing a bubble is silly its not a speculative thing they sell there, it's air travel and people are willing or not to use it it's a product almost a commodity these days ... the growth as been of passengers so real people wanted to use the airport and the region it serves.
If this is a nuisance to SCQ that's his problem...

Fact of the mater is that in the ctachment area of the airport is fairly big and has alot of VFR travel. Combined with lots of recent tourism made it grown quite a bit. Would it keep on growing like that? Probably not as most of Europe destinations are fairly well covered, and transatlantic destinations are higher risk and the area is not exactly rich..

But the concept an airport being a bubble is absurd. And I don't heven know how to apply it to airport... Would people buy tickets speculatively in hope of future ressale price making up for it???


I don't understand why you are talking here about SCQ. I don't think people in LIS worry a little about SCQ... or OPO for that matter. But of course we can discuss about SCQ so you can forget about Emirates dropping OPO. You seem a bit obsessed.

Indeed the concept of an airport being a bubble is logical. It is FOMO 101. Carriers launch services just because they don't want to be the last remaining carrier not to serve an airport and lose that market (and having carriers like Emirates undoubtedly gives an airport some clout). We were also in a time (2019) were carriers were running out of ideas, so they had to launch new destinations. That is why carriers like Arkia, Air Algerie or Sun d'Or launched OPO and then cancelled it (before COVID); they did it because everybody else was there.

I think what happened with OPO is that carriers just overestimated the market. Looking at the OPO variety of destinations, it is in the same league as airports as VLC (an airport that already has Turkish or Royal Air Maroc back, unlike OPO). However because of the huge Northern Portugal diaspora, there are few million VFR on top of that so the airport seems "bigger" to a new entrant; because the number of PAX to destinations like Paris, Geneva or Luxembourg are disproportionately big for an airport its size. It probably also helped that LIS was a mad house (full) before COVID and that it is the 2nd airport of the country (it is always easier to be the 2nd than the 10th one like VLC). But now the capacity issues at LIS are history so no need to spill over a 2nd airport.
 
Sdmccray1984
Posts: 75
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Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:53 pm

This past May 2020 I booked a TAP flight scheduled for next February 1(JFK-LIS), in hopes that restrictions would be lifted(I’m an American citizen). I’m doubtful this will occur. But as of today, TAP is not willing to waive the change fee for moving the trip to later in 2021. Really, TAP?!? You’re better that! Why is TAP doing this? It’s not like I’m asking for a refund!
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5891
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:54 pm

Sdmccray1984 wrote:
This past May 2020 I booked a TAP flight scheduled for next February 1(JFK-LIS), in hopes that restrictions would be lifted(I’m an American citizen). I’m doubtful this will occur. But as of today, TAP is not willing to waive the change fee for moving the trip to later in 2021. Really, TAP?!? You’re better that! Why is TAP doing this? It’s not like I’m asking for a refund!


I had a TATL flight (this week btw) purchased in January and I was only offered a voucher early September. It seems they are not too "proactive". I reckon if by February 2021 COVID disappears, they will just tell you that you fly or you lose it. Otherwise you will likely need to wait to a close date to departure to claim a voucher or ask for a change of date.
 
Vicenza
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:21 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:48 pm

Sdmccray1984 wrote:
This past May 2020 I booked a TAP flight scheduled for next February 1(JFK-LIS), in hopes that restrictions would be lifted(I’m an American citizen). I’m doubtful this will occur. But as of today, TAP is not willing to waive the change fee for moving the trip to later in 2021. Really, TAP?!? You’re better that! Why is TAP doing this? It’s not like I’m asking for a refund!


Surely they are correct though. February is still five months away, with no real indication either way about flight either flying or not. At what point should it be decided that a no-charge should be applicable. If you wish to change dates, that is perfectly fine but, in all honesty, I don't think the airline should be expected to cover the fee five months out.
 
Hagic
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:19 am

TAP Portugal LIS-ZAZ-YYZ twice weekly

Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:53 pm

What's the rationale behind this twice-weekly Lisboa-Zaragoza-Toronto (TP9408 - TP9193) A339 service? Are they consolidating traffic out of MAD and BCN at ZAZ?
Last edited by Hagic on Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: TAP Portugal LIS-ZAZ-YYZ twice weekly

Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:55 pm

Where did you get that from?
 
airbazar
Posts: 10525
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Portugal LIS-ZAZ-YYZ twice weekly

Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:07 am

Hagic wrote:
What's the rationale behind this twice-weekly Lisboa-Zaragoza-Toronto (TP9408 - TP9193) A339 service? Are they consolidating traffic out of MAD and BCN at ZAZ?

Cargo flight.
https://www.heraldo.es/noticias/economi ... 90924.html
Wednesdays to Istanbul and Fridays to Toronto.
 
royroy
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:48 am

Re: TAP Portugal LIS-ZAZ-YYZ twice weekly

Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:15 am

This will be to capitalise on the huge inditex operation in ZAZ
 
Hagic
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:19 am

Re: TAP Portugal LIS-ZAZ-YYZ twice weekly

Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:10 am

airbazar wrote:
Hagic wrote:
What's the rationale behind this twice-weekly Lisboa-Zaragoza-Toronto (TP9408 - TP9193) A339 service? Are they consolidating traffic out of MAD and BCN at ZAZ?

Cargo flight.
https://www.heraldo.es/noticias/economi ... 90924.html
Wednesdays to Istanbul and Fridays to Toronto.


Why use a brand new A339 passenger version for cargo flights? to keep it airworthy under the current passenger traffic slump?
 
raylee67
Posts: 994
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: TAP Portugal LIS-ZAZ-YYZ twice weekly

Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:48 am

Hagic wrote:

Why use a brand new A339 passenger version for cargo flights? to keep it airworthy under the current passenger traffic slump?


A A339 is more fuel efficient so it would be cheaper to fly than a A333. These cargo flights do not carry passengers. A339 has a cargo volume of 215 cubic meters (in belly-hold space) and A333's volume is only 158 cubic meters. So a A339 can carry more.

There is very minimal demand for passenger service anyway, so both A333 and A339 in the fleet would be sitting there not doing much. May as well use the ones with larger capacity to fly cargo.

Note that many airlines are also using new pax planes to fly these cargo flights
(see United's cargo schedule here https://www.unitedcargo.com/ShowFiles?f ... debody.pdf with all the 77W and 787 flying cargo only flights)
 
Pt56
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:57 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:27 am

SCQ83 wrote:

I don't understand why you are talking here about SCQ..


SCQ as in your name, only now I realize that is a reference to Santiago, thought it was pretty obvious I was referencing you, I'm pretty sure Santiago airport would not go in silly tangents about airports being bubbles.

The only metric that matters is revenue, and companies can assess that quickly enough. from the outside, we can only guess by the occupation % on the flights. And on that metric OPO as good numbers, but its only one side of the story.


Anyway, this thread is about TAP, the only relevance of OPO here stems from the fact that for a company historically and chronically bankrupt, only afloat because of the tax payer money, the taxpayer might have an opinion where that money is forfeit.

Bubbles theory and co, are fairly irrelevant here.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10525
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Portugal LIS-ZAZ-YYZ twice weekly

Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:38 pm

At the end of the day someone else is paying for it. I'm sure the cost and capability is different per aircraft type. They will use the aircraft that their client paid for and, that can handle the job for whoever it is that they are transporting.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 12382
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: TAP Portugal LIS-ZAZ-YYZ twice weekly

Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:50 pm

raylee67 wrote:
A A339 is more fuel efficient so it would be cheaper to fly than a A333. These cargo flights do not carry passengers. A339 has a cargo volume of 215 cubic meters (in belly-hold space) and A333's volume is only 158 cubic meters. So a A339 can carry more.

The A333 and A339 have the exact same cargo volume- they share the exact same fuselage.

TAP doesn’t have any A333s anymore- all their A333s were short term leases using ex SQ frames that were all returned (PreCovid) as TP received A339s to replace them. The planes are now at, or will be at, Air Canada.

Obviously the A339 can hold more cargo than the A332, and of course they are newer and costing TP more in acquisition cost side (leasing price and financing prices) than the A332 so important to get as much business with them as possible.
 
Steelhead
Posts: 286
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:04 am

Re: TAP Portugal LIS-ZAZ-YYZ twice weekly

Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:58 pm

I saw the A-330-900 unloading cargo from the main deck (through the passenger doors) at YYZ - must have the seats removed.
 
asuflyer
Posts: 783
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Re: TAP Portugal LIS-ZAZ-YYZ twice weekly

Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:17 pm

This flight is chartered by Inditex. Zaragoza is where all the Spanish and Portuguese made Inditex products get shipped from. Inditex best known brand is Zara and they are in the fast fashion and retail business. Their business model is about churning out inexpensive clothes with the latest styles at a rapid pace and short turnaround times to their stores worldwide that's why the need for these all these charters. They also charter TK, EK, QR, ET, RU among others. ZAZ also exports some Spanish made automotive parts.
 
efpmeneses
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:39 pm

Re: TAP Portugal LIS-ZAZ-YYZ twice weekly

Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:13 pm

Steelhead wrote:
I saw the A-330-900 unloading cargo from the main deck (through the passenger doors) at YYZ - must have the seats removed.
Yes, the A339 CS-TUQ had the seats removed for doing cargo flights.

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User avatar
AECM
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:52 am

Re: TAP Portugal LIS-ZAZ-YYZ twice weekly

Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:39 pm

I think TAP had two A339 with all the economy seats removed and they started getting medical supplies from China and now its only one (CS-TUQ) that is being used for other cargo only flights. Something similar to this can be done for Inditex clothes boxes:

Image

This picture is from one of TAP A339 in one of the medical cargo flights from China.
 
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fidelidade
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:15 am

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:13 am

Pt56 wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:

Anyway, this thread is about TAP, the only relevance of OPO here stems from the fact that for a company historically and chronically bankrupt, only afloat because of the tax payer money, the taxpayer might have an opinion where that money is forfeit.

Bubbles theory and co, are fairly irrelevant here.


If you are Portuguese, you should know that TAP has not received any taxpayer money in nearly 30 years. It got money in 1994, and this year got money like all other airlines due to COVID. Please be objective and do not say things because you feel neglected.

I am very proud of what the network team is doing. For 70 and more years, our network had influences by the government. Now, we have someone running network who is doing what is right for TAP and for us. I think it is great that the fact that despite government ownership, the team has stuck to what is right and cancel flights from OPO because it does not make money. As I say on this forum, this is one of the reasons I admire the leadership of Arik. He is focussed on doing what is right for the business and what numbers say. Ironically, it is this kind of decision making that may actually turn TAP into being positive for all of Portugal. It is sad we do not have more people like this in executive these days with all other executives being Portuguese. I worry they take decisions only for politics. Time will tell what will happen.
 
Pt56
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:57 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:06 am

Well yes in 94 it was injected with money to solve it's chronical issues.. hopefully so that the state would be able to sell it...
After the fact it continued to lose money every year since then except marginally 1 year.
Only afloat not top of state backed loans.
The money it's getting now it's not for Covid it's the money it was needing juts to survive any way... Reason why the European comission is requiring a restructuration plan.
Covid made things even worse, the 1.2 billion won't be enough at the current loss per day level, the previous cash reserves are gone.

Just so that you understand how bad things are..
The reported losses in the first 2 trimesters plus the tickets sold but not operated (that TAP and all others will have to pay back to the clients) is already above the 1.2 billion it's getting...

Let me remind you again TAP as been praticly losing money every year since 94 not only in OPO but in Lisbon as well were 95% of its operation is... That since 94 the management as been mostly apolitical.
If it's a regional company how come is everyone paying for it? It's in fact a fiscal transfer to the richest region of the country.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10525
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:05 pm

fidelidade wrote:
If you are Portuguese, you should know that TAP has not received any taxpayer money in nearly 30 years. It got money in 1994, and this year got money like all other airlines due to COVID. Please be objective and do not say things because you feel neglected.

That's a little disingenuous. It is true that TAP has not received direct government subsidies since 1994 but that's not the same thing as being free of government assistance just to stay in operation. As a government owned company there are many ways to keep funding the airline indirectly just to keep it in operation. Do you honestly believe that a private company that hasn't been profitable in 30 years would still be in business today?
 
kipfilet
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:44 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:28 pm

TAP to let go 1000 cabin crew through March 2021:
https://eco.sapo.pt/2020/10/26/tap-vai- ... o-de-2021/
 
rrapynot
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:27 am

TAP Operating Westbound Redeyes LIS-SFO

Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:31 pm

Just noticed that TAP will be operating westbound redeyes between LIS-SFO. Depart LIS at 01:20 and arrive SFO 06:00. Look as December 3 for an example date that this will be operating.

Does anyone know why they are operating this unusual schedule?
 
efpmeneses
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:39 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:27 am

They are concentrating almost all long haul departures at end of day, between 7pm and midnight, and probably they could not land before 6 am in SFO, that's why they are departing Lisbon that late....

All about maximizing connections from other Portuguese airports and from all Europe...

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jmmadrid
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:00 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:24 pm

13:05 departure from SFO, 08:15 arrival in LIS
I'm sure it's good for connections, but oh boy not good for jetlag.
Such an early afternoon departure means that most passengers can't sleep much during the flight and then they land very early in the morning and still have the full day ahead of them.
 
jmmadrid
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:00 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:33 pm

By the way, loads between LIS and MAD must be awful.... TP are operating the route with an ATR72. I don't think I've seen this before.
IBERIA, on the other hand, are flying twice a day with Airbus 320. Could be argued that they don't have anything smaller, but what about AIR NOSTRUM?
 
x1234
Posts: 1173
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:50 pm

TP should start the highest yielding destinations in Africa for TATL and EU connections like LOS, ACC, JNB, CPT & DSS. Places even Delta flies non-stop from the USA in Africa.
 
rojo
Posts: 2319
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:07 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Sdmccray1984 wrote:
This past May 2020 I booked a TAP flight scheduled for next February 1(JFK-LIS), in hopes that restrictions would be lifted(I’m an American citizen). I’m doubtful this will occur. But as of today, TAP is not willing to waive the change fee for moving the trip to later in 2021. Really, TAP?!? You’re better that! Why is TAP doing this? It’s not like I’m asking for a refund!


I had a TATL flight (this week btw) purchased in January and I was only offered a voucher early September. It seems they are not too "proactive". I reckon if by February 2021 COVID disappears, they will just tell you that you fly or you lose it. Otherwise you will likely need to wait to a close date to departure to claim a voucher or ask for a change of date.


I was supposed to fly MAD-OPO-LIS-BOS back in August and TAP cancelled all 3 flights. They ended up protecting me a day later so I called to ask for a refund. TAP res agent said I already accepted the changes electronically and she couldn't do anything. I told her I wanted a full refund based on DOT guidelines of cancelled flights and will not take No for an answer so she put me on hold for 10 minutes and came back offering a voucher with an additional 20% to which I said no and insisted on a full refund to my original form of payment. She put me on hold again for 20 minutes and came back saying that after consulting with her supervisor, they will make an exception and issue a full refund but it will take several months. I told her I accept the full refund but several months was not acceptable. I understand one month, maybe two, but more than that I will be sharing my case with the DOT. I haven't received my refund so I submitted a complaint to the DOT. TAP has 30 days to respond after the DOT sends the complaint.

My point here is that TAP Res Agents have been told to be very strict with refunds and waiving change fees when there are still strict quarantine rules and lockdowns. Do not purchase tickets for next year until there is certainty you will be able to travel. US based airlines have more friendly policies when it comes to waiving change fees...
 
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Boeing757100
Posts: 768
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 10:09 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:41 am

Does anyone know the fate of the plans for TAP to fly to ATL, IAH, LAX, And YUL?
 
RainerBoeing777
Posts: 593
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:43 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:56 am

Boeing757100 wrote:
Does anyone know the fate of the plans for TAP to fly to ATL, IAH, LAX, And YUL?


The LIS-YUL route began during a pandemic, it is still active and is being operated with two weekly flights with Airbus A321LR
 
jmmadrid
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:00 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:56 am

It looks like LIS-YUL is going 5x from March 28. Every day except Wednesday and Friday on Airbus 321LR.
No signs of IAH, LAX or ATL. (at least yet)
 
efpmeneses
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:39 pm

Re: TAP Portugal News and Discussion Thread

Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:33 pm

x1234 wrote:
TP should start the highest yielding destinations in Africa for TATL and EU connections like LOS, ACC, JNB, CPT & DSS. Places even Delta flies non-stop from the USA in Africa.
ACC and DSS are already destinations for TAP. CPT will star next year, suposelly

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