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oschkosch
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:42 pm

ual763 wrote:
oschkosch wrote:
Breaking news: German government will make a decision about a cloe to 400 Million Euro loan for Condor, decision expected tonight.

https://m.bild.de/geld/wirtschaft/wirts ... obile.html

But why does a "highly profitable" entity now need 400 Million?

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Now Der Spiegel is reporting that the Bundesregierung will give Condor the €380 million!!!!
not totally correct. 50% from German Government and other 50% from the State most affected i.e. regarding potential job loses, that is the State of Hessen (Hesse in English). Sorry I was not totally clear in my initial post.
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ual763
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:47 pm

oschkosch wrote:
ual763 wrote:
oschkosch wrote:
Breaking news: German government will make a decision about a cloe to 400 Million Euro loan for Condor, decision expected tonight.

https://m.bild.de/geld/wirtschaft/wirts ... obile.html

But why does a "highly profitable" entity now need 400 Million?

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Now Der Spiegel is reporting that the Bundesregierung will give Condor the €380 million!!!!
not totally correct. 50% from German Government and other 50% from the State most affected i.e. regarding potential job loses, that is the State of Hessen (Hesse in English). Sorry I was not totally clear in my initial post.


Sorry, I could have been more clear as well. The most recent decision for the bridge loan was from the Bundesregierung. But, yes, the State of Hesse is footing part of it as well!

Regardless, This makes me so happy!
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ojjunior
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:57 pm

WingsOfLove wrote:
Condor Flugdienst GmbH has applied for a temporary line of credit (Uberbruckungskredit) of 200 Million Euro, backed by the federal government & the state of Hesse, where it is headquartered, not a cash injection.


Oh, nice.
Thanks for the clarification.
Always wondered where did the Uber word come from.
Now it makes total sense.
 
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DominikR83
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:07 pm

I am absolutely sure that COndor will survive. Yes, they might be in a bad situation but the base of their business model is rather strong.And the brand has a very good reputation in germany,So as soon as the people know that the airline is fainancially stable they will continue booking with them.
In case the airline will be sold i am sure that it will not go to LH.Even if LH is bidding, the EU will most likely not allow it. LH is already very strong in Europe and especially in germany. On the german leisure market there are EW,DE,4U, XG and X3. EW and 4U belong already to LH, XG is 50% LH. SO if DE would go to LH as well ,there would be almost no competition anymore.
 
ual763
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:09 pm

ojjunior wrote:
WingsOfLove wrote:
Condor Flugdienst GmbH has applied for a temporary line of credit (Uberbruckungskredit) of 200 Million Euro, backed by the federal government & the state of Hesse, where it is headquartered, not a cash injection.


Oh, nice.
Thanks for the clarification.
Always wondered where did the Uber word come from.
Now it makes total sense.


Über means Over. Brücke means bridge. So yes, überbrücken means to “bridge over”. And then kredit is self-explainable. Hence “Bridge Loan.” :)
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ual763
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:17 pm

DominikR83 wrote:
I am absolutely sure that COndor will survive. Yes, they might be in a bad situation but the base of their business model is rather strong.And the brand has a very good reputation in germany,So as soon as the people know that the airline is fainancially stable they will continue booking with them.
In case the airline will be sold i am sure that it will not go to LH.Even if LH is bidding, the EU will most likely not allow it. LH is already very strong in Europe and especially in germany. On the german leisure market there are EW,DE,4U, XG and X3. EW and 4U belong already to LH, XG is 50% LH. SO if DE would go to LH as well ,there would be almost no competition anymore.


I don’t think it would go to Lufthansa in it’s current state. But, I believe with full certainty that Lufthansa is very interested in obtaining the brand. TUI can have the planes/staff/slots/etc. But, Lufthansa most certainly wants the name. Anything is possible. It’s just the means to achieve it that are constantly in flux.

And, this would be a great solution to the problem. Lufthansa doesn’t “literally” gain an unfair advantage as there would be no physical assets being transferred over, just the name. TUI would gain the extra seats (aircraft) creating more competition. Not to mention, TUI would most certainly (as others have said above) abolish the Condor branding & name if they got it. So why not sell the name to Lufthansa if they’re willing to pay for it? In my opinion it is a win-win. TUI gets bigger, and Lufthansa essentially creates a new leisure-focused subsidiary out of the Condor name using Lufthansa aircraft.
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lugie
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:22 pm

BestWestern wrote:
A $200m LC is a huge amount - let’s not pretend that it isn’t. A letter or credit is as good as a cash injection, unless it’s backed by assets. Note that the parent couldn’t get a 200m loan.

I believe that Condor has been profitable, but isn’t in 2019 to date. Owning some 767s and 753s isn’t a benefit either.


I would probably agree on the 767s but from what I've heard their 753s have some incredibly low CASM, especially on the segments Condor uses them for.

They fit more seats into the 753 than their widebodies (almost as many as LH puts into their 4-class A346s!!)
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Channex757
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:26 pm

Whoever gives them the loan, it is important for working capital. Basically that "float" an airline needs to pay the bills whilst waiting for income to arrive as well as investment.

That is how XL France initially survived as debt holders in XL took equity in the airline and refinanced it.

DE is profitable but it needs that cash in hand to run the company and make any changes needed immediately, such as appointing a bank or other body to oversee the sale of that 49%.
 
oschkosch
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:33 pm

english language info:

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/thom ... perations/

Condor Flugdienst GmbH today received a pledge from the German government and the Hesse state government for a six-month bridging loan of 380 million euros. This commitment is a prerequisite for an audit by the European Commission. Only after a positive decision from Brussels will the loan amount be paid out by KfW. It is not yet known when the decision from Brussels will be made.
The state guarantee for a bridging loan has been requested to prevent possible liquidity shortages on Condor resulting from the bankruptcy of Condor parent company Thomas Cook Group plc.




But Condor will need to sort of go insolvent in order to become independent of TC UK.

In order to free itself from possible claims of the insolvent parent company Thomas Cook Group plc and to detach itself from the group, Condor Flugdienst GmbH intends to file an application for the opening of a protective shield process.
“As a profitable company with positive cash flow and good business development, we are freeing ourselves from the possible claims of our English parent company Thomas Cook Group plc.
In the current situation, this step is the best for our customers, our business partners and for us. Because we gain full independence from the Thomas Cook Group plc and more security for our future. It is a formally necessary and logical step for us.
Our business is proceeding according to plan, and we continue to ensure that our guests reach their destination safely and reliably, “said Ralf Teckentrup, CEO. “Our fleet is operational and ticket sales for Condor flights continue as normal.”
The protective shield procedure is a peculiarity of the German insolvency law, which can be granted in cases with a positive prospect of a successful restructuring of court. In addition, a provisional committee of creditors will be appointed to represent the major creditor groups such as suppliers, employees and airport operators.





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BestWestern
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:47 pm

Great that the company survives. I hope it stays independent of Lufthansa.
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oschkosch
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:39 am

BestWestern wrote:
Great that the company survives. I hope it stays independent of Lufthansa.



No idea why everybody keeps bringing LH into the game. Impossible for LH to acquire DE and get EU cartel authority approval!
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1989worstyear
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:51 am

BestWestern wrote:
WingsOfLove wrote:
oschkosch wrote:
German press is reporting that DE needs 200 Million Euro cash injection from the government to survive


Condor Flugdienst GmbH has applied for a temporary line of credit (Uberbruckungskredit) of 200 Million Euro, backed by the federal government & the state of Hesse, where it is headquartered, not a cash injection.

Condor has been profitable, actually owns part of its fleet and sells about 80% of the seats through private channels and to individuals, not TCG plc.


A $200m LC is a huge amount - let’s not pretend that it isn’t. A letter or credit is as good as a cash injection, unless it’s backed by assets. Note that the parent couldn’t get a 200m loan.

I believe that Condor has been profitable, but isn’t in 2019 to date. Owning some 767s and 753s isn’t a benefit either.


Please explain why do those aircraft types have anything to do with profitability?

Or should I start ranting about 1988 again?
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:27 am

Actually, why did LH let go of their Condor shares in the first place? I've tried Googling it but can't seem to find an answer.
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WIederling
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:34 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Actually, why did LH let go of their Condor shares in the first place? I've tried Googling it but can't seem to find an answer.


IMU the LH Condor shares diffused into the Karstadt/Arcandor conglomerate
when it inducted Cook that had inducted Condor.

parts of that went belly up. Looks diffuse :-)
the German and English WP pages on Condor have some info ( history, ownership )
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PlaneInsomniac
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:15 am

Well, Condor is apparently officially under administration now, see:

https://www.wiwo.de/unternehmen/dienstleister/thomas-cook-pleite-condor-macht-gewinn-bekommt-kredit-und-meldet-doch-insolvenz-an/25052112.html

This "form of bankruptcy" despite the loan they have received is meant to facilitate a sale of the airline or parts of it. It is evidently the same process used "successfully" for Air Berlin.

Not sure I find this very confidence-inspiring for Condor stakeholders...
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WingsOfLove
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:04 pm

PlaneInsomniac wrote:
Not sure I find this very confidence inspiring


Combined, the 'Schutzschirmverfahren' together with the 'Uberbruckungskredit' provide Condor Flugdienst GmbH with legal & financial independence from London. Stakeholders like airports, services providers, passengers and employees can breath a sigh of relief. Does it guarantee survival? Definitely not, but Condor's future looks a little brighter today.
 
Zaf
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:29 pm

oschkosch wrote:
No idea why everybody keeps bringing LH into the game. Impossible for LH to acquire DE and get EU cartel authority approval!

who else would buy it? IAG, Ryanair, Norwegian, employees buy out?
 
Pyrex
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:41 pm

Let this be a lesson to the employees at Thomas Cook, on why a certain crazy-haired bloke in Westminster wants to fulfill the wishes of voters and move the UK out of the EU - rules on ensuring competition in the European Union apply up until the point where the German government(s) feel the political need to prop up oner of their companies (see, VW). Same way the EU rules on competition apply up until the point someone from outside the country tries to buy a French publicly-listed company, even if they are making yoghurts. Sucks for Germania employees they were not more politically connected.
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Channex757
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:42 pm

Zaf wrote:
oschkosch wrote:
No idea why everybody keeps bringing LH into the game. Impossible for LH to acquire DE and get EU cartel authority approval!

who else would buy it? IAG, Ryanair, Norwegian, employees buy out?

In the first instance, the loan providers. They would be offered stock in the new company to cover their investment. The TCX share of DE is only 49% after all. This way uses the Thomas Cook stockholding as security for the loans.

This way ensures that existing shareholders are not wiped out as it doesn't mean a trip through bankruptcy per se. It's more of a protection order by the German courts. If the loan providers do not want to do this then existing shareholders would then be offered the stock and finally a general sale to the wider industry.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:54 pm

Picture taken this morning at Condor's headquarters

Image
xx
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:04 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Let this be a lesson to the employees at Thomas Cook, on why a certain crazy-haired bloke in Westminster wants to fulfill the wishes of voters and move the UK out of the EU - rules on ensuring competition in the European Union apply up until the point where the German government(s) feel the political need to prop up oner of their companies (see, VW). Same way the EU rules on competition apply up until the point someone from outside the country tries to buy a French publicly-listed company, even if they are making yoghurts. Sucks for Germania employees they were not more politically connected.


I don't see this as inconsistent application of EU competition rules but as differences in national bankruptcy/administration rules. Are there reasons that the UK can't do it the way the Germans do? Can somebody point to hard points in EU administration law where French and German practices fail?

Similarly, rather than organizing flights - Operation Matterhorn - to repatriate travelers, the UK could follow the Germans and just make consumers purchase insurance contracts and let insurers get people home.

Here's some light reading comparing US Chapter 11 Bankruptcy vs. UK, French, German and Italian law.

https://www.jonesday.com/files/Publicat ... 2011%20(A4).pdf
 
Lewton
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:13 pm

PlaneInsomniac wrote:
Not sure I find this very confidence-inspiring for Condor stakeholders...

Define stakeholders please.
From Hamburg with love.
 
Lewton
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:15 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Let this be a lesson to the employees at Thomas Cook, on why a certain crazy-haired bloke in Westminster wants to fulfill the wishes of voters and move the UK out of the EU - rules on ensuring competition in the European Union apply up until the point where the German government(s) feel the political need to prop up oner of their companies (see, VW). Same way the EU rules on competition apply up until the point someone from outside the country tries to buy a French publicly-listed company, even if they are making yoghurts. Sucks for Germania employees they were not more politically connected.

Total bs.
The British government had the choice to do something and decided not to.
Not because EU laws did not allow them to, but because the crazy-haired bloke is a retard.
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seahawk
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:30 pm

TUI seems interested in Condor, I can even seen the brand survive, as many tour operators do not like booking their clients on TUIfly, so the neutral brand might even make sense for them.
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:31 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Let this be a lesson to the employees at Thomas Cook, on why a certain crazy-haired bloke in Westminster wants to fulfill the wishes of voters and move the UK out of the EU


The 'crazy-haired bloke' could have tried to save Thomas Cook, but instead sided with Hedge Funds who opposed the financial aid & restructuring. Why? Well, they are 'hedged' and now profit from its demise, while the tax payer gets the bill for the largest repatriation since WWII, unemployment for thousands losing their jobs and so much more.
 
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TheLion
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:41 pm

WingsOfLove wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Let this be a lesson to the employees at Thomas Cook, on why a certain crazy-haired bloke in Westminster wants to fulfill the wishes of voters and move the UK out of the EU


The 'crazy-haired bloke' could have tried to save Thomas Cook, but instead sided with Hedge Funds who opposed the financial aid & restructuring. Why? Well, they are 'hedged' and now profit from its demise, while the tax payer gets the bill for the largest repatriation since WWII, unemployment for thousands losing their jobs and so much more.


Well said. The effects of neoliberal capitalism sadly always screw over normal people in the end.
 
WIederling
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:08 pm

PlaneInsomniac wrote:
Not sure I find this very confidence-inspiring for Condor stakeholders...


These things are _designed_ to limit the damage to stakeholders
and allow for an orderly dissolution ( like fulfilling already booked and paid for tours/flights. )

counter :Chap 11 were damage is spread (with intent to dilute?) as wide as possible.
Murphy is an optimist
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:23 pm

According to Vorstandschef Jousson TUI has not submitted an offer for Condor

https://de.finance.yahoo.com/nachrichte ... 23871.html
 
IADCA
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:24 pm

Some of you may be best advised to go back and read some of that user's older posts. A good summary of the overall impression is that anything that profits a large financial institution is good; even better if it harms normal folks; even better if it involves government choosing to do nothing rather than protect people from rapacious banks; best, however, if it is all of these and also morally questionable.
 
Pyrex
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:57 pm

WingsOfLove wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Let this be a lesson to the employees at Thomas Cook, on why a certain crazy-haired bloke in Westminster wants to fulfill the wishes of voters and move the UK out of the EU


The 'crazy-haired bloke' could have tried to save Thomas Cook, but instead sided with Hedge Funds who opposed the financial aid & restructuring. Why? Well, they are 'hedged' and now profit from its demise, while the tax payer gets the bill for the largest repatriation since WWII, unemployment for thousands losing their jobs and so much more.


Ah, the good old cabal against CDS contracts... Is there anything non-Rothschild related that is more misunderstood and unjustly vilified in finance?

Any restructuring that involves a debt for equity swap (which would be any restructuring...) would trigger a credit event under the ISDAs, which would mean anyone that was net long CDS would get paid out. Nobody who was "hedged" (which really means net zero, but I digress...) would have any incentive to oppose a restructuring.

Why would Boris Johnson spend taxpayer money to harm the employees of Jet2, Ryanair, Tui, Titan, EasyJet, Virgin, etc.? Should he have done something to save the manufacturers of buggy whips as well?
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mxaxai
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:59 pm

Channex757 wrote:
Zaf wrote:
oschkosch wrote:
No idea why everybody keeps bringing LH into the game. Impossible for LH to acquire DE and get EU cartel authority approval!

who else would buy it? IAG, Ryanair, Norwegian, employees buy out?

In the first instance, the loan providers. They would be offered stock in the new company to cover their investment. The TCX share of DE is only 49% after all. This way uses the Thomas Cook stockholding as security for the loans.

This way ensures that existing shareholders are not wiped out as it doesn't mean a trip through bankruptcy per se. It's more of a protection order by the German courts. If the loan providers do not want to do this then existing shareholders would then be offered the stock and finally a general sale to the wider industry.

One should note, though, that the government loan is a so-called "Massekredit". This means that the government loan must be repaid before any other debt.

The same is true for the Airberlin loan. AB managed to repay the loan just barely - interest is still unpaid - and only now are other creditors able to claim their part. As one might expect, there isn't much left.
 
oschkosch
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:24 pm

mxaxai wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
Zaf wrote:
who else would buy it? IAG, Ryanair, Norwegian, employees buy out?

In the first instance, the loan providers. They would be offered stock in the new company to cover their investment. The TCX share of DE is only 49% after all. This way uses the Thomas Cook stockholding as security for the loans.

This way ensures that existing shareholders are not wiped out as it doesn't mean a trip through bankruptcy per se. It's more of a protection order by the German courts. If the loan providers do not want to do this then existing shareholders would then be offered the stock and finally a general sale to the wider industry.

One should note, though, that the government loan is a so-called "Massekredit". This means that the government loan must be repaid before any other debt.

The same is true for the Airberlin loan. AB managed to repay the loan just barely - interest is still unpaid - and only now are other creditors able to claim their part. As one might expect, there isn't much left.
And the bridge loan must be EU approved first!! Uk could have done it also...

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WingsOfLove
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:15 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Ah, the good old cabal against CDS contracts


Nothing wrong with CDS contracts.

Everything wrong with making tax payers foot a larger bill than necessary.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:15 pm

oschkosch wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
In the first instance, the loan providers. They would be offered stock in the new company to cover their investment. The TCX share of DE is only 49% after all. This way uses the Thomas Cook stockholding as security for the loans.

This way ensures that existing shareholders are not wiped out as it doesn't mean a trip through bankruptcy per se. It's more of a protection order by the German courts. If the loan providers do not want to do this then existing shareholders would then be offered the stock and finally a general sale to the wider industry.

One should note, though, that the government loan is a so-called "Massekredit". This means that the government loan must be repaid before any other debt.

The same is true for the Airberlin loan. AB managed to repay the loan just barely - interest is still unpaid - and only now are other creditors able to claim their part. As one might expect, there isn't much left.
And the bridge loan must be EU approved first!! Uk could have done it also...


unfortunately not. TCX Airlines would not have been viable away from the parent.
It's just the way it was operated. Their bulk flying was done for the package holiday division as well as sales through the retail estate. That's now all gone so how long would $200m last when the planes are flying almost empty?

TCX did declare its year-end profits as £130 million to year-end September 2018 but how much of a loss would that flip to with no Thomas Cook filling the seats? Condor, however, is much more a going concern.
 
Lewton
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:37 pm

Pyrex wrote:
WingsOfLove wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Let this be a lesson to the employees at Thomas Cook, on why a certain crazy-haired bloke in Westminster wants to fulfill the wishes of voters and move the UK out of the EU


The 'crazy-haired bloke' could have tried to save Thomas Cook, but instead sided with Hedge Funds who opposed the financial aid & restructuring. Why? Well, they are 'hedged' and now profit from its demise, while the tax payer gets the bill for the largest repatriation since WWII, unemployment for thousands losing their jobs and so much more.


Ah, the good old cabal against CDS contracts... Is there anything non-Rothschild related that is more misunderstood and unjustly vilified in finance?

Any restructuring that involves a debt for equity swap (which would be any restructuring...) would trigger a credit event under the ISDAs, which would mean anyone that was net long CDS would get paid out. Nobody who was "hedged" (which really means net zero, but I digress...) would have any incentive to oppose a restructuring.

Why would Boris Johnson spend taxpayer money to harm the employees of Jet2, Ryanair, Tui, Titan, EasyJet, Virgin, etc.? Should he have done something to save the manufacturers of buggy whips as well?

All this is fine as an opinion.
I do not see how it supports the argument that it is the EU's fault. :?
From Hamburg with love.
 
raylee67
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:56 pm

Hope DE survives, they almost always offer the best business class price from Toronto to Europe. And their business class is almost lie-flat, which is good enough, particular at a price point of less than C$1000 rt.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
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f4f3a
Posts: 599
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:07 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:22 pm

I see in the news uk looking to adopt similar approach to Germany to avoid the current caos in the future . Hope condor could find a buyer would be sad to see another iconic brand go
 
marcogr12
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:31 pm

So how is Condor's case different that would allow it to get EU-approval over its bridge-loan when generally state-aid is not allowed to EU airlines?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
WingsOfLove
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:09 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
So how is Condor's case different that would allow it to get EU-approval over its bridge-loan when generally state-aid is not allowed to EU airlines?


in general
- financial assistance that doesn't have to be payed back like a capital injection, subsidies, preferential pricing, etc., gives companies an unfair advantage and is therefor not allowed under EU competition laws
- allowed are loans to be paid back in a set time frame with a market based interest rate
 
eagles94
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:16 pm

WingsOfLove wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Let this be a lesson to the employees at Thomas Cook, on why a certain crazy-haired bloke in Westminster wants to fulfill the wishes of voters and move the UK out of the EU


The 'crazy-haired bloke' could have tried to save Thomas Cook, but instead sided with Hedge Funds who opposed the financial aid & restructuring. Why? Well, they are 'hedged' and now profit from its demise, while the tax payer gets the bill for the largest repatriation since WWII, unemployment for thousands losing their jobs and so much more.


The DfT today admitted that the business plan put forward by the TC management was so far from acceptable that they didn’t even want to acknowledge it, let alone offer money to fund it.
The crooks shafted TCUK to benefit Condor. That video of them receiving a standing ovation at the Condor headquarters is sickening.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2188
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:21 pm

eagles94 wrote:
WingsOfLove wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Let this be a lesson to the employees at Thomas Cook, on why a certain crazy-haired bloke in Westminster wants to fulfill the wishes of voters and move the UK out of the EU


The 'crazy-haired bloke' could have tried to save Thomas Cook, but instead sided with Hedge Funds who opposed the financial aid & restructuring. Why? Well, they are 'hedged' and now profit from its demise, while the tax payer gets the bill for the largest repatriation since WWII, unemployment for thousands losing their jobs and so much more.


The DfT today admitted that the business plan put forward by the TC management was so far from acceptable that they didn’t even want to acknowledge it, let alone offer money to fund it.
The crooks shafted TCUK to benefit Condor. That video of them receiving a standing ovation at the Condor headquarters is sickening.

DfT?
 
WingsOfLove
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:36 pm

eagles94 wrote:
The DfT today admitted that the business plan put forward by the TC management was so far from acceptable that they didn’t even want to acknowledge it, let alone offer money to fund it.
The crooks shafted TCUK to benefit Condor. That video of them receiving a standing ovation at the Condor headquarters is sickening.


any link to back this up?
 
jomur
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:38 pm

DfT is the Department for Transport...
 
mxaxai
Posts: 1807
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:46 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
So how is Condor's case different that would allow it to get EU-approval over its bridge-loan when generally state-aid is not allowed to EU airlines?

Fundamentally, any measure is okay as long as it is equally available to everyone. Thomas Cook GmbH (the german branch of the tour operator) filed bankruptcy today and reportedly also applied for a (hopefully smaller) loan. However, this is still pending as the regulators feel that TCG hasn't presented a good business plan yet, nor a compelling reason why this loan is absolutely necessary.
I think Thomas Cook UK had hoped for such a loan, but with such a poor outlook the UK government didn't consider it worth it.
 
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Phosphorus
Posts: 985
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:16 pm

eagles94 wrote:
...
The crooks shafted TCUK to benefit Condor. That video of them receiving a standing ovation at the Condor headquarters is sickening.

Couldn't find this video. A link would be appreciated.
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WingsOfLove
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:27 am

Phosphorus wrote:
Couldn't find this video


as suspected 'eagles94' misconstrued the 'thank you' Condor employees sent to the German Federal Government & State of Hesse for providing the loan that, at least for now saves their company and jobs... see picture in article below

https://www.airliners.de/condor-antrag- ... cook/52003
 
eagles94
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:47 am

WingsOfLove wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Couldn't find this video


as suspected 'eagles94' misconstrued the 'thank you' Condor employees sent to the German Federal Government & State of Hesse for providing the loan that, at least for now saves their company and jobs... see picture in article below

https://www.airliners.de/condor-antrag- ... cook/52003


Thanks for incorrectly answering for me.

Here’s the actual video.
https://www.facebook.com/24383185566812 ... 23?sfns=mo
 
WingsOfLove
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:37 am

eagles94 wrote:


here's an official news report putting things in perspective
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49836562

I understand the frustration of MT employees, but Christoph Debus is not the one to blame. Thomas Cook Group plc and the Johnson government failed them.

Can you blame DE employees for being overjoyed? TCG plc 'robbed' Condor Flugdienst GmbH of its summer profits right before going into receivership, leaving the airline cashless for the winter.

Debus is not the one saving DE. It's the Bund / Hessen and Germany's version of the US Chapter 11 passed in 2012, which protects Condor from its owner TCG plc
Last edited by WingsOfLove on Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 2660
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:02 am

WingsOfLove wrote:
eagles94 wrote:


here's an official news report putting things in perspective
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49836562

I understand the frustration of MT employees, but Christoph Debus is not the one to blame. Thomas Cook Group plc and the Johnson government failed them.

Can you blame DE employees for being overjoyed? TCG plc 'robbed' Condor Flugdienst GmbH of its summer profits right before going into receivership, leaving the airline cashless for the winter.

Debus is not the one saving DE. It's the Bund / Hessen and Germany's version of the US Chapter 11 passed in 2012, which protects Condor from its owner TCG plc


It is a difficult situation all round. The reality is that the overall group was saddled with a high amount of debt that it had no hope of repaying. Several purchases and mergers brought this situation about. That said, I don't think the UK government has "failed" Thomas Cook, as such. Bankruptcy laws in Germany allowed Condor to fly and more importantly to keep the necessary certifications to operate a commercial airline. Once Thomas Cook went into liquidation the UK airline had its AOC suspended and was grounded, there is no longer an airline to save.

It is the prerogative of the UK government to change the bankruptcy law, they suggested they might after Monarch - but they did not. There will be more "investigations" and "reports" filled with "recommendations" that will sit on a shelf until the next tour operator collapses.
 
Lewton
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:46 pm

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:23 am

eagles94 wrote:
WingsOfLove wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Let this be a lesson to the employees at Thomas Cook, on why a certain crazy-haired bloke in Westminster wants to fulfill the wishes of voters and move the UK out of the EU


The 'crazy-haired bloke' could have tried to save Thomas Cook, but instead sided with Hedge Funds who opposed the financial aid & restructuring. Why? Well, they are 'hedged' and now profit from its demise, while the tax payer gets the bill for the largest repatriation since WWII, unemployment for thousands losing their jobs and so much more.


The DfT today admitted that the business plan put forward by the TC management was so far from acceptable that they didn’t even want to acknowledge it, let alone offer money to fund it.
The crooks shafted TCUK to benefit Condor. That video of them receiving a standing ovation at the Condor headquarters is sickening.

Always blame it on the Germans. :)
From Hamburg with love.

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