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bully707
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:38 am

Sooo...since DE is trying to leave the Thomas Cook group for good...if they survive this winter season and find a new owner/owners, they will need to ditch the sunny heart tail/ livery.
Additional expenses that will eat into the profit/loan.
"That's the good thing about the 707...it can do anything, but read!" Joe Patroni, Airport '70
 
NG263
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:49 am

It is just embarrassing to see how some people seem to blame Condor for the failure of TC. The airlines of the group are the ones least responsible for the failure. Thomas Cook has been starting to fall over the past years. The airlines made profit & the tour operator just took the money to pay the debts while not giving anything back. And the blame for the video is just hilarious. Of course people are happy & celebrate when the future & their jobs are secured, everyone would do that. They are of course not celebrating the bankruptcy of TC, how ridiculous to believe so. I feel sorry for the employees & Thomas Cook Airlines UK but I feel not sorry for the tour operating business. The airlines had to suffer under the financial situation of the tour operator ever since.
 
NG263
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:50 am

bully707 wrote:
Sooo...since DE is trying to leave the Thomas Cook group for good...if they survive this winter season and find a new owner/owners, they will need to ditch the sunny heart tail/ livery.
Additional expenses that will eat into the profit/loan.


Don't think so, for now they most probably just remove the TC lettres & the Sunnyheart logo from the tail & instead put the Condor logo as a decal in place. That will not be expensive.
 
WIederling
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:40 am

NG263 wrote:
bully707 wrote:
Sooo...since DE is trying to leave the Thomas Cook group for good...if they survive this winter season and find a new owner/owners, they will need to ditch the sunny heart tail/ livery.
Additional expenses that will eat into the profit/loan.


Don't think so, for now they most probably just remove the TC lettres & the Sunnyheart logo from the tail & instead put the Condor logo as a decal in place. That will not be expensive.


back to the future:
Image

:-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:45 am

WingsOfLove wrote:
eagles94 wrote:


here's an official news report putting things in perspective
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49836562

I understand the frustration of MT employees, but Christoph Debus is not the one to blame. Thomas Cook Group plc and the Johnson government failed them.


So should a government have bailed out a business that had been struggling financially for a number of years whether their plan was viable or not? What precedent would that have set for future businesses on the brink? What questions would have been inevitably asked about why they didn't step in to save other businesses such as Monarch and multiple high street retailers?

Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely gutted for all the staff, but with a business that had a financial track record such as that of Thomas Cook, would it have been wise to spend however many millions of taxpayer's money propping up a business that may or may not turn themselves around, especially if it was delaying the inevitable? The only people that have failed Thomas Cook were the current and former senior management teams that took the decisions they did that led to the well-documented financial issues.

About the cost of the repatriation efforts, isn't that being paid for by the ATOL fund that all package holiday customers pay GBP £2.50 per person towards every time they book a package holiday or a trip with ATOL protection? A bit different to the government loaning/granting a nine figure sum to an ailing business which, if it went wrong, would have opened themselves to political criticism come election time and comparisons made to how many doctors, nurses, police officers, teachers, school equipment, pioneering drugs on the NHS etc. that the money could have been spent on. Remember, there was a lot criticism aimed towards bankers (rightly or wrongly) for carrying on in a "business as usual" manner after RBS and other major banks were bailed out, though I acknowledge that those bail outs were the difference between what was a bad recession becoming very catastrophic.

BrianDromey wrote:
It is the prerogative of the UK government to change the bankruptcy law, they suggested they might after Monarch - but they did not.


No doubt it was forgotten about like a lot of other things because the government is too distracted with Brexit.

NG263 wrote:
It is just embarrassing to see how some people seem to blame Condor for the failure of TC. The airlines of the group are the ones least responsible for the failure. Thomas Cook has been starting to fall over the past years. The airlines made profit & the tour operator just took the money to pay the debts while not giving anything back. And the blame for the video is just hilarious. Of course people are happy & celebrate when the future & their jobs are secured, everyone would do that. They are of course not celebrating the bankruptcy of TC, how ridiculous to believe so. I feel sorry for the employees & Thomas Cook Airlines UK but I feel not sorry for the tour operating business. The airlines had to suffer under the financial situation of the tour operator ever since.


I'm not blaming Condor at all for the failure of Thomas Cook.

My main criticism of the video was the timing. They have every right to be happy that the money buys them time to find a buyer and move the business in a different direction for the future. It really is good to see that they won't add to the number of airlines that have failed this week. However, it comes across as classless to be celebrating in public and then being put in a position where anybody in the world can see it, especially as it can be seen by those that up until a few days ago were colleagues and counterparts under the Thomas Cook umbrella. What message does that send to them?

All that said, if it wasn't for social media and smartphones, there's a high probability those that were there would have been the only ones to know about it.
 
flyjay123
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:00 pm

Someone either up thread or the TC thread suggested Condor is interested in TCX Gatwick slots.

If TCX airline was profitable on its scheduled MAN -US routes, could we see Condor fill that void, and try their luck out of Gatwick?

The Condor brand isn't unknown to the British consumer .. so what a fantastic turn of events it would be ... if Condor came in and successfully did what the British TCX couldn't!?
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:33 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
it comes across as classless to be celebrating


There's nothing classless about people being happy they don't lose their job
 
flyjay123
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:40 pm

WingsOfLove wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
it comes across as classless to be celebrating


There's nothing classless about people being happy they don't lose their job


Absolutely!
 
AIRT0M
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:46 pm

WingsOfLove wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
it comes across as classless to be celebrating


There's nothing classless about people being happy they don't lose their job


Couldn't agree more.
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:46 pm

flyjay123 wrote:
Someone either up thread or the TC thread suggested Condor is interested in TCX Gatwick slots


here's the exact wording: 'looks like Condor is taking over TCUKs slots at Gatwick'

user 'eagles94' has not substantiated his post
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:25 pm

Generally it is cheaper when a large company goes bankrupt for courts and government to separate out the potential profitable pieces keeping them intact. The US government under Bush2 and Obama in effect did this with GM and Chrysler. Had they gone under the whole automotive infrastructure may have collapsed involving hundreds of smaller parts and service companies, millions of workers. The government actually made a fairly good profit, did not have to subsidize those millions of workers. GM and Chrysler are much smaller companies but the automotive industry in the US is larger and stronger.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:47 pm

WingsOfLove wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
it comes across as classless to be celebrating


There's nothing classless about people being happy they don't lose their job


Nice bit of selective quoting there to ensure you've taken my point out of context. :roll:

We'll agree to disagree on this one. If Condor was an isolated company (i.e. independent) not connected to any other airline, then I wouldn't have a problem with celebrating a reprieve. However, given that they weren't and thousands others that were part of the wider Thomas Cook Group (including TCX) are out of a job. I'm sure it wasn't intended to cause offence, but I can see why it's offended Thomas Cook employees who were their colleagues and counterparts now out of work as it isn't tactful to the say the least.
 
ual763
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:57 pm

eagles94 wrote:
WingsOfLove wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Couldn't find this video


as suspected 'eagles94' misconstrued the 'thank you' Condor employees sent to the German Federal Government & State of Hesse for providing the loan that, at least for now saves their company and jobs... see picture in article below

https://www.airliners.de/condor-antrag- ... cook/52003


Thanks for incorrectly answering for me.

Here’s the actual video.
https://www.facebook.com/24383185566812 ... 23?sfns=mo


I’m sure you would love the video of the inflight celebrations on Condor...

But seriously, Condor has always been somewhat detached from the rest of the Thomas Cook group. They have always been somewhat of their own airline. As others have said, there is nothing wrong with being happy that your job is still there. We can be happy and sad at the same time.

Life isn’t always fair... I’ve seen coworkers get promoted who most definitely did not deserve it. Do I hate them? No, I do not. I’m happy for them, and it just caused me to work harder and focus on bettering myself. Being jealous of others, while easy to do, is no way to live a happy life.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
WIederling
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:09 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
So should a government have bailed out a business that had been struggling financially for a number of years whether their plan was viable or not?


This "lending money" is not about bail out but about keeping the "volkswirtschaftliche" damage limited.
( I know, it is a strange concept. )

What did the UK government spend on repatriating their citizens from the last UK travel airline going broke?
How much damage did citizen travelers sustain at the time?
Murphy is an optimist
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:39 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
I can see why it's offended Thomas Cook employees


it offended, because it's being spun...

user 'eagles94': "The crooks shafted TCUK to benefit Condor. That video of them receiving a standing ovation at the Condor headquarters is sickening"
user 'eagles94': "Looks like Condor is taking over TCUKs slots at Gatwick"

and these lies are nothing compared to Facebook
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:42 pm

WIederling wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
So should a government have bailed out a business that had been struggling financially for a number of years whether their plan was viable or not?


This "lending money" is not about bail out but about keeping the "volkswirtschaftliche" damage limited.
( I know, it is a strange concept. )

What did the UK government spend on repatriating their citizens from the last UK travel airline going broke?
How much damage did citizen travelers sustain at the time?

I guess nothing. ATOL guarantees are meant to cover just that.
 
eagles94
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:56 pm

WingsOfLove wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
I can see why it's offended Thomas Cook employees


it offended, because it's being spun...

user 'eagles94': "The crooks shafted TCUK to benefit Condor. That video of them receiving a standing ovation at the Condor headquarters is sickening"
user 'eagles94': "Looks like Condor is taking over TCUKs slots at Gatwick"

and these lies are nothing compared to Facebook


You love quoting my posts and arguing with them. Thomas Cook crew are marching on parliament next week. Argue with them. Are you Christoph Debus in disguise? Take your anti Thomas cook agenda elsewhere, as by the majority of your posts you really seem to have no sympathy, WingsOfLove is an incredibly ironic username.
 
mattyfitzg
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:14 pm

eagles94 wrote:
WingsOfLove wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
I can see why it's offended Thomas Cook employees


it offended, because it's being spun...

user 'eagles94': "The crooks shafted TCUK to benefit Condor. That video of them receiving a standing ovation at the Condor headquarters is sickening"
user 'eagles94': "Looks like Condor is taking over TCUKs slots at Gatwick"

and these lies are nothing compared to Facebook


You love quoting my posts and arguing with them. Thomas Cook crew are marching on parliament next week. Argue with them. Are you Christoph Debus in disguise? Take your anti Thomas cook agenda elsewhere, as by the majority of your posts you really seem to have no sympathy, WingsOfLove is an incredibly ironic username.


While I can agree that WingsOfLove’s post might be somewhat unsympathetic towards TC, the rumours you’re seeing on Facebook and on Thomas Cook Crew pages are exactly that, rumours, including that Condor took TCs slots and money before they went under. While this might be true there is no solid evidence to prove it other than the word of TC employees who are unfortunately trying to convince themselves its Condors fault.
It doesn’t look good that the big cats are floating about in Germany seemingly without a care but of course there is more to it than them “shafting” TC for Condors benefit.


EDIT: On a side note, my daughter is/was TC crew, currently flying for Avion our of MAN. She and her colleagues were told that if they didn’t agree to working the repatriation flights, they were resigning and not being made redundant, which is outrageous.
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:40 pm

O'Leary makes it official... Ryanair not interested

https://www.airliners.de/ryanair-chef-condor/52026

:smile:
 
flyjay123
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:03 am

Even O'Leary forsee's Lufthansa taking over Condor.
 
flyjay123
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:25 am

CWL757 wrote:
Not sure what forum to post this in but some condor staff have just slapped they're TCX colleagues in the face imo.
https://youtu.be/pTqu0UAfXpw


I dont see that at all CWL757.... I'm not a German speaker so dont know what they are saying, but I see them slapping the overhead bins and singing out in joy that they still have jobs - and can pay the mortgage this month. And good luck to Condor and all that fly with her.

I think TC colleague's would wish Condor every success in the future.
Last edited by flyjay123 on Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:39 am

flyjay123 wrote:
Even O'Leary forsee's Lufthansa taking over Condor.


according to the article below LH & DE were looking into a closer cooperation only about a month ago

https://www.airliners.de/lufthansa-cond ... mmen/51534

sorry it's in German ;)
 
flyjay123
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:45 am

Thanks for the article Wings .... I was posting on Sunday even when it wasnt offical but many kinda new what was coming, that Lufthansa will have a chq ready for Monday morning.
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:56 am

flyjay123 wrote:
I'm not a German speaker so dont know what they are saying


the crew is thanking passengers for 60 years of loyalty and expressing their hope to be able to welcome them back
 
CWL757
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:58 am

flyjay123 wrote:
CWL757 wrote:
Not sure what forum to post this in but some condor staff have just slapped they're TCX colleagues in the face imo.
https://youtu.be/pTqu0UAfXpw


I dont see that at all CWL757.... I'm not a German speaker so dont know what they are saying, but I see them slapping the overhead bins and singing out in joy that they still have jobs - and can pay the mortgage this month. And good luck to Condor and all that fly with her.

I think TC colleague's would wish Condor every success in the future.

I completely agree. The condor crew have a reason to celebrate but I fear they are getting too caught up in they're celebrating that they forgetting what has happened here in the UK. From the employees of TC I've talk to they do not seem to appreciate it but everyone's different. Regardless, I also wish condor the best and look forward to flying them.
A319, A320, 738, 743, 744, 752, 772, 788, C150, E175, E190, F70, R22
 
eagles94
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:33 am

flyjay123 wrote:
.

I think TC colleague's would wish Condor every success in the future.



Unfortunately, this isn’t the case.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:36 am

eagles94 wrote:
flyjay123 wrote:
.

I think TC colleague's would wish Condor every success in the future.



Unfortunately, this isn’t the case.


You mean, they are jealous, and wish ill upon Condor and its team?
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ei146
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:38 am

@eagles94
What exactly do you expect Condor and its employees to do?
Shall Condor go under out of solidarity to the rest of the group?
Or shall they not apply for a state credit to keep the daily business going and survive (which is only needed BTW because the mother ship decided to keep the cash accounts with her, so that they are frozen now)?
Is it wrong to take the necessary steps to protect the business form the effects of the insolvency of the group?
Should Condor employees not be happy to keep their job for now?
If you would be at Condor, what would you do differently?

I am really sure most if not all of the Condor people wish all the poeple of the other members of the group all the best. But when the ship goes down its "Rette sich wer kann/ sauve qui peut/ every man for himself". Expecting Condor to commit suicide out of solidarity is maybe one step to far.

But I know, it is a tradition for some people in the UK (and I include some of your leaders here): If things go wrong it is always the fault of someone else: be it the EU, the Germans, unfair competition, the world wide economic conditions or whatever. One thing is for sure, it is never the conditions in your own country, never the effect of own decisions or faults. Good luck to you, but with this attitude you are beyond help.
 
eagles94
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:59 am

Phosphorus wrote:
eagles94 wrote:
flyjay123 wrote:
.

I think TC colleague's would wish Condor every success in the future.



Unfortunately, this isn’t the case.


You mean, they are jealous, and wish ill upon Condor and its team?


That may well be the case.
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:10 am

a new day... a new favorite: Indigo Partners LLC

https://www.airliners.de/indigo-partner ... kauf/52035

Indigo owns Frontier Airlines in the US and has non-controlling stakes in several others around the world including Wizz Air
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:18 am

eagles94 wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
eagles94 wrote:


Unfortunately, this isn’t the case.


You mean, they are jealous, and wish ill upon Condor and its team?


That may well be the case.

Well, then the individuals in question are obviously not smart. Their employer (TC) is sinking; their employer (TC) has effectively torpedoed Condor's chance for survival (by taking away high season's earnings, right before low season), and now they are not happy that Condor is still afloat? Clearly, a case of stupidity.
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eagles94
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:23 am

ei146 wrote:
@eagles94
What exactly do you expect Condor and its employees to do?
Shall Condor go under out of solidarity to the rest of the group?
Or shall they not apply for a state credit to keep the daily business going and survive (which is only needed BTW because the mother ship decided to keep the cash accounts with her, so that they are frozen now)?
Is it wrong to take the necessary steps to protect the business form the effects of the insolvency of the group?
Should Condor employees not be happy to keep their job for now?
If you would be at Condor, what would you do differently?

I am really sure most if not all of the Condor people wish all the poeple of the other members of the group all the best. But when the ship goes down its "Rette sich wer kann/ sauve qui peut/ every man for himself". Expecting Condor to commit suicide out of solidarity is maybe one step to far.

But I know, it is a tradition for some people in the UK (and I include some of your leaders here): If things go wrong it is always the fault of someone else: be it the EU, the Germans, unfair competition, the world wide economic conditions or whatever. One thing is for sure, it is never the conditions in your own country, never the effect of own decisions or faults. Good luck to you, but with this attitude you are beyond help.


Never once did I say should Condor go bust out of solidarity!?
 
eagles94
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:24 am

Phosphorus wrote:
eagles94 wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:

You mean, they are jealous, and wish ill upon Condor and its team?


That may well be the case.

Well, then the individuals in question are obviously not smart. Their employer (TC) is sinking; their employer (TC) has effectively torpedoed Condor's chance for survival (by taking away high season's earnings, right before low season), and now they are not happy that Condor is still afloat? Clearly, a case of stupidity.


I think it would be unfair to call it stupidity. As Mattyfitzg said earlier, I think it’s a case of them trying to convince hem selves that it is all condors and the governments fault, and they’ve blinded themselves with this reasoning.
 
Summa767
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:34 am

Good on Condor in freeing itself from the shackles of Thomas Cook. May it prosper.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:34 am

eagles94 wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
eagles94 wrote:

That may well be the case.

Well, then the individuals in question are obviously not smart. Their employer (TC) is sinking; their employer (TC) has effectively torpedoed Condor's chance for survival (by taking away high season's earnings, right before low season), and now they are not happy that Condor is still afloat? Clearly, a case of stupidity.


I think it would be unfair to call it stupidity. As Mattyfitzg said earlier, I think it’s a case of them trying to convince hem selves that it is all condors and the governments fault, and they’ve blinded themselves with this reasoning.


Right. You have someone, equipped with all the necessary facts:
1) TC robbed Condor
2) TC sank
3) Condor somehow is still afloat, though German taxpayer had to throw them a lifeline, and the situation is far from resolved

And then this someone comes to a striking conclusion -- "TC death is Condor's fault" and, as you rightly say "trying to convince hem selves that it is all condors and the governments fault".
Then you turn around, and tell me -- that it's unfair to call this -- stupidity.

Well, I wonder, what is a fair name for this "fountain of wisdom" on their part?
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eagles94
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:40 am

Phosphorus wrote:
eagles94 wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Well, then the individuals in question are obviously not smart. Their employer (TC) is sinking; their employer (TC) has effectively torpedoed Condor's chance for survival (by taking away high season's earnings, right before low season), and now they are not happy that Condor is still afloat? Clearly, a case of stupidity.


I think it would be unfair to call it stupidity. As Mattyfitzg said earlier, I think it’s a case of them trying to convince hem selves that it is all condors and the governments fault, and they’ve blinded themselves with this reasoning.


Right. You have someone, equipped with all the necessary facts:
1) TC robbed Condor
2) TC sank
3) Condor somehow is still afloat, though German taxpayer had to throw them a lifeline, and the situation is far from resolved

And then this someone comes to a striking conclusion -- "TC death is Condor's fault" and, as you rightly say "trying to convince hem selves that it is all condors and the governments fault".
Then you turn around, and tell me -- that it's unfair to call this -- stupidity.

Well, I wonder, what is a fair name for this "fountain of wisdom" on their part?


TC robbed Condor did they? Nice fountain of wisdom there.
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:51 am

sorry non German speakers...

a light hearted look back at a proud little company that always had to reassert itself under new ownership

https://www.airliners.de/condor-gallier ... -110/52028

didn't know they fought Thomas Cook Group for 2 years to have their name back 8-)
 
juliuswong
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Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:01 am

WingsOfLove wrote:
a new day... a new favorite: Indigo Partners LLC

https://www.airliners.de/indigo-partner ... kauf/52035

Indigo owns Frontier Airlines in the US and has non-controlling stakes in several others around the world including Wizz Air

I hope the deal goes through. Indigo Partners has 430 A320neo family coming, they can spare some for Condor. Would that mean those B757/B767 would be replaced by A321neo/A330neo in future? I think there is high possibility.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
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Phosphorus
Posts: 641
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:01 am

eagles94 wrote:

TC robbed Condor did they? Nice fountain of wisdom there.


Any other ideas, how to call channeling high season's earnings upstream to TC UK, right before low season kicks in?

Not that I have a horse in this race, but for objectivity's sake, do you really expect any other name for taking away high season's earnings, in a very seasonal business, other than robbery? At the end of the day, Condor is apparently not even a majority-owned subsidiary of TC, is it? Still, Condor's money is now stashed away somewhere in Britain, and a bunch of unrelated folks try to divvy it up, while Condor's management has to go to German taxpayers, hat in hand?
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
WingsOfLove
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:18 am

Phosphorus wrote:
Condor is apparently not even a majority-owned subsidiary of TC


It actually is, but the 'Schutzschirmverfahren', a German take on the US Chapter 11, protects Condor against its owner TCG plc. It was a prerequisite for the loan, which otherwise could have been claimed by the receiver in London.
 
ual763
Posts: 955
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:50 pm

juliuswong wrote:
WingsOfLove wrote:
a new day... a new favorite: Indigo Partners LLC

https://www.airliners.de/indigo-partner ... kauf/52035

Indigo owns Frontier Airlines in the US and has non-controlling stakes in several others around the world including Wizz Air

I hope the deal goes through. Indigo Partners has 430 A320neo family coming, they can spare some for Condor. Would that mean those B757/B767 would be replaced by A321neo/A330neo in future? I think there is high possibility.


I hope this does not go through. Indigo has a pretty shite reputation. Flown on both and Frontier and Wizz are both some of the absolute worst airlines. They would no doubt ruin Condor and make them the absolute cheapest of the cheap.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
flyjay123
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:07 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:59 pm

Just been reading other sources where TCX crew are posting. Think i get a grasp of their frustrations whether correct or not I dont know.

The essence of it is, they were always informed that TCX was the only profitable airline in the group. Condor was not profitable... therefore they are bewildered it is operating when they are not.

Worth also saying that for a multitude of different reasons - which I can understand if true - they suspect foul play by the directors ... and some are making a connection with his Swiss? German background - suggesting a bias towards creating a favourable outcome for Condor!

No doubt the UK authorities will investigate these claims.... and all will eventually unfold.
Last edited by flyjay123 on Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
WingsOfLove
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:08 pm

Plucked into Flightaware the registration of some of the aircrafts operated by H5, Thomas Cook Airlines Balearics and H3, Thomas Cook Aviation GmbH and to my surprise they're operating as Condor and 'owner unknown'.

Although my initial post was in the main TC bankruptcy thread, this really belongs here.
 
WingsOfLove
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:09 pm

Plucked into Flightaware the registration of some of the aircrafts operated by H5, Thomas Cook Airlines Balearics and H3, Thomas Cook Aviation GmbH and to my surprise they're operating as Condor and 'owner unknown'.

Although my initial post was in the main TC bankruptcy thread, this really belongs here.
 
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Phosphorus
Posts: 641
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:12 pm

ual763 wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
WingsOfLove wrote:
a new day... a new favorite: Indigo Partners LLC

https://www.airliners.de/indigo-partner ... kauf/52035

Indigo owns Frontier Airlines in the US and has non-controlling stakes in several others around the world including Wizz Air

I hope the deal goes through. Indigo Partners has 430 A320neo family coming, they can spare some for Condor. Would that mean those B757/B767 would be replaced by A321neo/A330neo in future? I think there is high possibility.


I hope this does not go through. Indigo has a pretty shite reputation. Flown on both and Frontier and Wizz are both some of the absolute worst airlines. They would no doubt ruin Condor and make them the absolute cheapest of the cheap.


I've no experience with Frontier, but on Wizz, at +10Euro/flight, I got premium legroom seat, and that comes with priority boarding. Planes are clean and seats are comfy. Once aboard, I just read a book, and try to ignore the rest of the zoo that happens until takeoff.
As long as you have no allocated seats -- I gather the boarding time zoo is part of the package.
Maybe things changed in the meantime (flew them quite a bit a few years ago; haven't for a couple of years).

And looking up Condor fleet age... Yikes... They need somebody, who will give them a fair number of new planes. Those 20+ year old fleets in A320, 757 and 767 cannot soldier on forever. Some planes are above 28 years, you can probably still squeeze some time out of them, but only so much...
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
flyjay123
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:07 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:13 pm

WingsOfLove wrote:
Plucked into Flightaware the registration of some of the aircrafts operated by H5, Thomas Cook Airlines Balearics and H3, Thomas Cook Aviation GmbH and to my surprise they're operating as Condor and 'owner unknown'.

Although my initial post was in the main TC bankruptcy thread, this really belongs here.


Yes this is a good example of one of the many genuine concerns TCX crews have ....they are bewidered ... and want answers.... understandably!
 
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seahawk
Posts: 8852
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:36 pm

Phosphorus wrote:

And looking up Condor fleet age... Yikes... They need somebody, who will give them a fair number of new planes. Those 20+ year old fleets in A320, 757 and 767 cannot soldier on forever. Some planes are above 28 years, you can probably still squeeze some time out of them, but only so much...


Do not forget that the fleet suffered from TC trying to make money. 4 rather new A321s went to TC UK, Condor had to lease 2 old TC 753s from Boeing Capital in exchange. In addition all newer A320 have been either transferred to the UK or sold off.
 
ual763
Posts: 955
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:43 pm

But, let’s be honest, the 757s/767s at Condor are some of the nicest & cleanest in the air. They are incredibly nice inside. Age does not equal shite. Condor has been very proactive at keeping them “refreshed”. But, yes, they will need new eventually. A 797 would be perfect for them.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
f4f3a
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:07 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:51 pm

I wonder whether a deal will be done to sell to Lufthansa with easy taking a few slots out of Frankfurt like what happened to air Berlin . I think Lufthansa might prefer easyJet rather than Ryanair or wizz
 
WingsOfLove
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Condor and its links to Thomas Cook

Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:34 pm

seahawk wrote:
the fleet suffered from TC trying to make money. 4 rather new A321s went to TC UK, Condor had to lease 2 old TC 753s from Boeing Capital in exchange. In addition all newer A320 have been either transferred to the UK or sold off


nice to learn some facts... thanx

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