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VTCIE
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Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:53 pm

Of course, this has been discussed in the SAS route expansion thread, as regards Siberian overfly rights, but that thread has been dominated by North American routes. Therefore I am opening a separate topic for discussing how come AY can serve so many Asian destinations from HEL (specifically Japan: NRT, FUK, NGO, KIX, with CTS also to be launched), while SAS serves only four, of which two are in China, the third (HKG) is technically also in China, and the fourth (NRT) is in Japan.

It has always baffled me why SAS does not fly to BKK, the hub of its Star Alliance co-founder TG; SIN, the single biggest city in Southeast Asia, also a *A hub; or other *A hubs like DEL and ICN.

Note that this has nothing to do with SAS forsaking ARN and OSL in favour of CPH for its long-haul routes, though all this is definitely to CPH’s advantage, as it gets all the SK long-haul flights, even while lying west of ARN (the easiest city for an Asian route).

China is also growing at a breakneck pace for AY: besides PEK/PVG/HKG, it serves NKG year-round (obviously thanks to a big handout from the Jiangsu government), as well as CKG and XIY seasonally.
Last edited by VTCIE on Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
In grieving remembrance of the thousands of people who lost their lives on ET-AVJ, PK-LQP, XA-UHZ, S2-AGU, CP-2933, SU-GCC, EI-ETJ, D-AIPX, PK-AXC, 9M-MRD, VT-AXV and above all 9M-MRO, besides many more. Your deaths are not in vain. Safety first, always.
 
Someone83
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:55 pm

SAS har tried DEL at least twice and failed miserably. BKK was also cut (it also had a tag on to SIN for å long time) after the route became unprofitable. BKK is now servied via TG codeshare, and SIN through their JV sin SQ
 
VTCIE
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:58 pm

Someone83 wrote:
SAS har tried DEL at least twice and failed miserably. BKK was also cut (it also had a tag on to SIN for å long time) after the route became unprofitable.

Regarding DEL, I remember an advertisement in an Indian magazine (Travel Trends) in 1995 advertising SK as a shortcut to Europe. How times have changed for SK. Instead, AY has played the shortcut-to-Europe card in more recent years.

With AY flying HEL–DEL, I hope for QF to launch DEL as well, so as to get a HEL–DEL–MEL routing on Oneworld, but that will be pell-mell for travellers (note the hell of a lot of rhyming words here).
In grieving remembrance of the thousands of people who lost their lives on ET-AVJ, PK-LQP, XA-UHZ, S2-AGU, CP-2933, SU-GCC, EI-ETJ, D-AIPX, PK-AXC, 9M-MRD, VT-AXV and above all 9M-MRO, besides many more. Your deaths are not in vain. Safety first, always.
 
IADCA
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:06 pm

VTCIE wrote:
Of course, this has been discussed in the SAS route expansion thread, as regards Siberian overfly rights, but that thread has been dominated by North American routes. Therefore I am opening a separate topic for discussing how come AY can serve so many Asian destinations from HEL* (specifically Japan: NRT, FUK, NGO, KIX, with CTS also to be launched), while SAS serves only four, of which two are in China, the third (HKG) is technically also in China, and the fourth (NRT) is in Japan.

It has always baffled me why SAS does not fly to BKK, the hub of its Star Alliance co-founder TG; SIN, the single biggest city in Southeast Asia, also a *A hub; or other *A hubs like DEL and ICN.

Note that this has nothing to do with SAS forsaking ARN and OSL in favour of CPH for its long-haul routes, though all this is definitely to CPH’s advantage, as it gets all the SK long-haul flights, even while lying west of ARN (the easiest city for an Asian route).

*China is also growing at a breaknecy pace for AY: besides PEK/PVG/HKG, it serves NKG year-round (obviously thanks to a big handout from the Jiangsu government), as well as CKG and XIY seasonally.


You can turn the question on its head, as well: SK operates a much more extensive network across the Atlantic than AY does. But one obvious reason for the disparity in Asia is that AY has a larger widebody fleet. Of course SK could order more planes to launch more Asia routes, but take something like BKK: Norwegian and Thai already fly to all three SK hubs from BKK, so SK would be ordering new planes to be the third entrant on a route, and competing with a codeshare partner at that.
 
cyba
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:28 pm

VTCIE wrote:
It has always baffled me why SAS does not fly to BKK, the hub of its Star Alliance co-founder TG;


More, than just alliance partners, SAS was in fact one of the founders of TG in the 1960s, and a main shareholder for a long time. I'm not sure when they divested their shares but times certainly have changed since then!!
 
konkret
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:30 pm

cyba wrote:
VTCIE wrote:
It has always baffled me why SAS does not fly to BKK, the hub of its Star Alliance co-founder TG;


More, than just alliance partners, SAS was in fact one of the founders of TG in the 1960s, and a main shareholder for a long time. I'm not sure when they divested their shares but times certainly have changed since then!!


SAS sold its stake in Thai in 1977
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:35 pm

Part of the answer is the favorable geographic position of Helsinki. The other part of the answer is that SAS and Finnair are relatively small airlines. They seem to have an understanding between them on splitting the market for maximum profit. I don't think it's something official, it's just a strategy that has been in place for a while.
 
behramjee
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:39 pm

SK has more rigorous profit making guidelines than AY has hence the former tends to focus more aggressively on the higher yielding and shorter trans-Atlantic flights whilst AY has marketed itself as more of an Asian focused airline out of EU to differentiate from the rest.

Yes for sure many of AYs Asian routes don’t make a net profit annually as their primary target is lower yielding transit pax versus higher yielding p2p which there isn’t enough demand for out of HEL year round.
 
Kikko19
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:10 pm

Ay can use to several asian destinations the same aircraft a/r something that sas can't do. In addition sas suffers star alliance partner LH group which basically take all possible feeds from Europe to Asia. Ay has no competition from one world (ba can't steal German or Italian passengers to Asia). Ay started play the 'shortest way to asia as well. Sas can't.
 
YIMBY
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:25 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
Part of the answer is the favorable geographic position of Helsinki. The other part of the answer is that SAS and Finnair are relatively small airlines. They seem to have an understanding between them on splitting the market for maximum profit. I don't think it's something official, it's just a strategy that has been in place for a while.


I do not believe in any collusion, even unofficially. (In this case - there are several other more obvious cases.)

It is just the geography. The distance from HEL to Japan and some other parts of Pacific Asia is optimal for 24h rotation, while CPH and OSL are not, and ARN only for a limited number of destinations. 24h rotation just makes the use of hardware most economic. Toward Americas there is not a similarly optimal hub, as the continent is quite wide and distributed, and therefore there is much more competition between hubs. Scandinavian hubs have an advantage over HEL, sufficient to have more flights but not to outcompete AY from TATL market. AY keeps a surprisingly large number of TATL destinations.
 
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Erebus
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:33 pm

As far as Japan goes, I think it is also about the fish. I saw this documentary where they show how important Japan is as a market for fresh fish and sushi. It showed an AY plane being loaded with fresh salmon. Basically, it went from the water to a table in Japan in less than 2 days.
 
steex
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:42 pm

behramjee wrote:
SK has more rigorous profit making guidelines than AY has hence the former tends to focus more aggressively on the higher yielding and shorter trans-Atlantic flights whilst AY has marketed itself as more of an Asian focused airline out of EU to differentiate from the rest.


Of course, part of the point is that HEL's geographic position flips that logic around a bit - HEL-PEK, for example, is shorter than HEL-JFK. On the whole, an extensive Asian portfolio for AY doesn't result in longer routes than an extensive TATL portfolio would. AY is the only major EU carrier for which that would be true, so they leverage that position to their advantage.
 
MareBorealis
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:56 pm

YIMBY wrote:
The distance from HEL to Japan and some other parts of Pacific Asia is optimal for 24h rotation, while CPH and OSL are not, and ARN only for a limited number of destinations. 24h rotation just makes the use of hardware most economic. Toward Americas there is not a similarly optimal hub

:checkmark:
YIMBY wrote:
AY keeps a surprisingly large number of TATL destinations.


The Atlantic Joint Venture with AA/BA/IB helps here, I wonder if AY had returned to US West Coast without it. In USA they now serve JFK LAX SFO ORD MIA, the first two are served year around.

Finnair has made some bold moves, for a relatively small airline, now Asia is their bread and butter. They started their non stop services to Asia in 1983 when the Tokyo route was opened. They first flew the Polar route with DC-10 + extra fuel tanks, until Soviet Union opened the Siberian air space for them. Japan still is their key market with five routes. Now they are a part of the Siberian Joint Venture with BA/IB/JL, Japan Airlines being a close partner, both serving on HEL-NRT also.

Finnair have around 20 destinations in Asia now. The next new ones will be Sapporo (CTS) in December and Busan (PUS) in March.
 
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Finn350
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:03 pm

behramjee wrote:
SK has more rigorous profit making guidelines than AY has hence the former tends to focus more aggressively on the higher yielding and shorter trans-Atlantic flights whilst AY has marketed itself as more of an Asian focused airline out of EU to differentiate from the rest.


Very difficult to follow your logic especially when looking at how much SAS has destroyed shareholders’ value.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:25 pm

I think the reverse question is more appropriate--how is AY making money in a region where yields are depressed by state backed carriers? There aren't nearly as many state backed carriers diluting the market across the Atlantic. Just look at fares from Europe to North America versus Europe to Asia and you'll have your answer.

Finn350 wrote:
behramjee wrote:
SK has more rigorous profit making guidelines than AY has hence the former tends to focus more aggressively on the higher yielding and shorter trans-Atlantic flights whilst AY has marketed itself as more of an Asian focused airline out of EU to differentiate from the rest.


Very difficult to follow your logic especially when looking at how much SAS has destroyed shareholders’ value.

Isn't SK more profitable than AY? I thought AY was breaking even on a good day while SK was outperforming DY.
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jfk777
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:28 pm

SAS should be able to make something happen with ANA & Air China as Star alliance members. Everyone loves to blame LH that has arrangements with these airlines. SAS just doesn't have the will to make Asia work. Sadly they don't fly to Bangkok where they flew for decades. Star is the biggest alliance in Asia and SAS should be taking advantage of that. IF they are worried about Norwegian maybe they should buy them because Norwegian's Gatwick operation would go nicely with SAS.
 
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Finn350
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:33 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
I think the reverse question is more appropriate--how is AY making money in a region where yields are depressed by state backed carriers? There aren't nearly as many state backed carriers diluting the market across the Atlantic.

Finn350 wrote:
behramjee wrote:
SK has more rigorous profit making guidelines than AY has hence the former tends to focus more aggressively on the higher yielding and shorter trans-Atlantic flights whilst AY has marketed itself as more of an Asian focused airline out of EU to differentiate from the rest.


Very difficult to follow your logic especially when looking at how much SAS has destroyed shareholders’ value.

Isn't SK more profitable than AY? I thought AY was breaking even on a good day while SK was outperforming DY.


In the end it is the share price that determines the shareholder value. When looking at SAS share price, it has come down from over 300 SEK in 2008 to about 12 SEK today.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:42 pm

Erebus wrote:
As far as Japan goes, I think it is also about the fish. I saw this documentary where they show how important Japan is as a market for fresh fish and sushi. It showed an AY plane being loaded with fresh salmon. Basically, it went from the water to a table in Japan in less than 2 days.


There's more seafood flown out of Oslo than the rest of the Nordic countries combined - including Iceland and Finland. The amount is so large it's flown on dedicated freighters.
 
ARNCPH
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:41 pm

Hey guys!
First time poster, be kind

What is the actual flying time in cruise between HEL and ARN. Could it be more than 15 minutes? Surely all/most the 24 hour rotations AY manages from HEL should be just as viable for SK from ARN?
Then of course ARN isn’t set up for transfers, but just looking at actual plane usage. Thanks!
 
lawair
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:12 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Isn't SK more profitable than AY? I thought AY was breaking even on a good day while SK was outperforming DY.


Actually from what I can tell, the two were practically equivalent for 2018, at roughly 150 million EUR in net profit for each. AY probably performs well on BKK because it basically has a monopoly on the route, sometimes operating double daily. It's far different on CPH/ARN-BKK. AY is also still majority government owned.
 
MareBorealis
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:14 pm

lawair wrote:
AY probably performs well on BKK because it basically has a monopoly on the route, sometimes operating double daily. It's far different on CPH/ARN-BKK. AY is also still majority government owned.


Finnair has a kind of hybrid business model in Thailand. In winter they fly to BKK HKT KBV, combined up to 21 weekly flights, their own tour operator fills a large part of the seats. In coming winter BKK gets 16 weekly flights, three flights on Mondays and Thursdays. In summer they fly to BKK only, 1x daily.

True Finnair is the only airline operating on direct HEL-BKK route but naturally there is competition, especially Qatar has become on popular choise for Finnish passengers to Thailand. There's also FlyDubai/Emirates, Norwegian and other Europeans. Pity TG hasn't been interested in HEL, probably because no feeders available.

Yes the government holds a majority of AY but I can't see how's that relevant here.
 
ewt340
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:01 am

Maybe in the future if they could get widebodies smaller than B787-8 or A330-800. Then it might work. But the market are pretty small for them.
 
alan3
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:47 am

I think SAS dropped BKK around 2013 and then DY started it in 2014.

SAS dropping BKK always surprised me too. Thailand is HUGE vacation destination for Scandinavians. I realize that may mean it's too low-yield for a legacy airline but that hasn't stopped at least 6 other European legacy carriers.
 
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:22 am

ARNCPH wrote:
What is the actual flying time in cruise between HEL and ARN. Could it be more than 15 minutes? Surely all/most the 24 hour rotations AY manages from HEL should be just as viable for SK from ARN?


It's 400 km. Some of that extra distance will be cut by more efficient routing depending on destination, but not much. Say 25 minutes in cruise; two ways will make 50 minutes.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:51 am

Norweigan is flying between Bangkok and Copenhagen/Stockholm and offering really low fares of about £200, so I don't think they'd want to do that right now.
 
VTCIE
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:00 am

MareBorealis wrote:
lawair wrote:
AY probably performs well on BKK because it basically has a monopoly on the route, sometimes operating double daily. It's far different on CPH/ARN-BKK. AY is also still majority government owned.

True Finnair is the only airline operating on direct HEL-BKK route but naturally there is competition, especially Qatar has become on popular choise for Finnish passengers to Thailand. There's also FlyDubai/Emirates, Norwegian and other Europeans. Pity TG hasn't been interested in HEL, probably because no feeders available.

HEL is a Oneworld monopoly. It is dominated by AY (and of course QR for the Middle Eastern service). Outsiders like EK and TG do not stand a chance of surviving in Helsinki.
In grieving remembrance of the thousands of people who lost their lives on ET-AVJ, PK-LQP, XA-UHZ, S2-AGU, CP-2933, SU-GCC, EI-ETJ, D-AIPX, PK-AXC, 9M-MRD, VT-AXV and above all 9M-MRO, besides many more. Your deaths are not in vain. Safety first, always.
 
kanye
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:17 am

alan3 wrote:
I think SAS dropped BKK around 2013 and then DY started it in 2014.

SAS dropping BKK always surprised me too. Thailand is HUGE vacation destination for Scandinavians. I realize that may mean it's too low-yield for a legacy airline but that hasn't stopped at least 6 other European legacy carriers.



SAS started San Francisco instead.
One problem for SAS on a route like Bangkok is the very premium heavy cabin, they only have 245 seats in the A340.
I’ve been hoping they would keep some A340s adding more economy seats and use it for more leisure oriented routes.
 
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:24 am

MareBorealis wrote:
lawair wrote:
AY probably performs well on BKK because it basically has a monopoly on the route, sometimes operating double daily. It's far different on CPH/ARN-BKK. AY is also still majority government owned.

True Finnair is the only airline operating on direct HEL-BKK route but naturally there is competition, especially Qatar has become on popular choise for Finnish passengers to Thailand. There's also FlyDubai/Emirates, Norwegian and other Europeans. Pity TG hasn't been interested in HEL, probably because no feeders available.

Indeed. TG actually planned (or at least considered) to launch route to HEL around 2006/7. Unfortunately, the source isn't available anymore. I think TG could make HEL work if TG added a stopover at HEL to one of its already served routes (maybe OSL) and/or started codeshare agreement with AY. To my knowledge, BKK has the highest O&D traffic volume amongst all interc'l routes flown from HEL.
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workhorse
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:42 am

My impression is that they don't even try to compete with Finnair on Europe-Asia traffic.

Take France-China for example. If you want to fly SAS from CDG to PEK or PVG, on your way back you will be stuck in CPH for a whole night because they don't have a CPH-CDG late enough for connecting passengers from PVG and PEK to catch up.

On Finnair, you always have at least two options.
 
MareBorealis
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:31 pm

VTCIE wrote:
HEL is a Oneworld monopoly. It is dominated by AY (and of course QR for the Middle Eastern service). Outsiders like EK and TG do not stand a chance of surviving in Helsinki.


EK is present in HEL through FlyDubai (daily B738). Naturally not a comparable product but ok connections.
Last edited by MareBorealis on Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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SASViking
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:37 pm

workhorse wrote:
My impression is that they don't even try to compete with Finnair on Europe-Asia traffic.

Take France-China for example. If you want to fly SAS from CDG to PEK or PVG, on your way back you will be stuck in CPH for a whole night because they don't have a CPH-CDG late enough for connecting passengers from PVG and PEK to catch up.

On Finnair, you always have at least two options.

They do, albeit only on Sundays. SK1563 departs CPH to CDG at 19:40. SK996 arrives at 18:45 from PEK and SK998 arrives at 18:35 from PVG
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workhorse
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:35 am

SASViking wrote:
workhorse wrote:
My impression is that they don't even try to compete with Finnair on Europe-Asia traffic.

Take France-China for example. If you want to fly SAS from CDG to PEK or PVG, on your way back you will be stuck in CPH for a whole night because they don't have a CPH-CDG late enough for connecting passengers from PVG and PEK to catch up.

On Finnair, you always have at least two options.

They do, albeit only on Sundays. SK1563 departs CPH to CDG at 19:40. SK996 arrives at 18:45 from PEK and SK998 arrives at 18:35 from PVG


Does it fly year round? Because right now as we speak I try to book a CDG-PEK-CDG with a return on Nov 17th or Nov 24th (both Sundays) and it doesn't show up.

P.S. Yeah, looks like it only flies during summer season. So, only once a week flight during only half a year. Doesn't look like a lot of competition to AY's daily year round multiple options.

And we are not even talking about adding flights to China. A simple daily late evening CRJ would already do wonders to China-France connectivity.
 
olle
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:14 am

I think there is a number of more reasons..

1. Finland being pro Soviet neutral during cold war. Very close ties to Soviet even being in practice ruled by Soviet the first years after WWII.

2. SAS concentration on Copenhagen. Swedish based business that is very international and expanding in Asia went for ARN - HEL - Asia instead of ARN- CPH - Asia.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:27 am

olle wrote:
I think there is a number of more reasons..

1. Finland being pro Soviet neutral during cold war. Very close ties to Soviet even being in practice ruled by Soviet the first years after WWII.

2. SAS concentration on Copenhagen. Swedish based business that is very international and expanding in Asia went for ARN - HEL - Asia instead of ARN- CPH - Asia.

Do you believe thays why SK originally started ARN-HKG a couple of years back but now are moving it to CPH?
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SASViking
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:43 pm

workhorse wrote:
SASViking wrote:
workhorse wrote:
My impression is that they don't even try to compete with Finnair on Europe-Asia traffic.

Take France-China for example. If you want to fly SAS from CDG to PEK or PVG, on your way back you will be stuck in CPH for a whole night because they don't have a CPH-CDG late enough for connecting passengers from PVG and PEK to catch up.

On Finnair, you always have at least two options.

They do, albeit only on Sundays. SK1563 departs CPH to CDG at 19:40. SK996 arrives at 18:45 from PEK and SK998 arrives at 18:35 from PVG


Does it fly year round? Because right now as we speak I try to book a CDG-PEK-CDG with a return on Nov 17th or Nov 24th (both Sundays) and it doesn't show up.

P.S. Yeah, looks like it only flies during summer season. So, only once a week flight during only half a year. Doesn't look like a lot of competition to AY's daily year round multiple options.

And we are not even talking about adding flights to China. A simple daily late evening CRJ would already do wonders to China-France connectivity.

Yes. I can see that they've moved it to seasonal, from early April to late October. I can also see that they have changed the times on another flight, so that SAS have two flights on CPH-CDG-CPH within 25 minutes of eachother on some Sunday evenings. I don't know if that's because of the connections from Asia, but It's two Airbus' so it's a lot of capacity.
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Finn350
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:55 pm

olle wrote:
1. Finland being pro Soviet neutral during cold war. Very close ties to Soviet even being in practice ruled by Soviet the first years after WWII.


I don't quite see the connection. In 1983 Finnair started non-stop flights to Tokyo. With extra fuel tanks on the DC 10-30-ER, the route took passengers over the North Pole and circumvented the Soviet Union. At the time, Finnair was the only airline offering non-stop flights between Western Europe and Japan.
 
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Tabito
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:45 pm

Is there any possibility that SK will join JV J+ (LH/LX/NH/OS) and Atlantic++ (AC/LH/LX/OS/UA)?
 
MareBorealis
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Re: Why is SK negligible in Asia, whereas AY has a number of Asian routes?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:55 pm

olle wrote:

1. Finland being pro Soviet neutral during cold war. Very close ties to Soviet even being in practice ruled by Soviet the first years after WWII.


Sorry you lost me here. As written above, Soviet Union didn't first allow Finnair to use the Siberian airspace, it was forced to take the much longer polar route. Finnair only started the serious growth in Asia in the 1990s, SAS made their own business choices.

Finnair realized a long ago for them Asia was the only direction to grow or even survive, risky though. Without Asia AY would now be a feeder for LH or BA, probably. Bigger SAS have had more choices but they have changed their business model many times, the hubs competing with each other.

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