Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 1356
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:54 pm

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

DFW-HND 777-300ER (From 772 in application)
LAX-HND 787-9 (from 788 in application)

DFW-HND: Depart 12:35 p.m. Arrive 3:55 p.m. (next day)
HND-DFW: Depart 6:15 p.m. Arrive 4:25 p.m.
LAX-HND: Depart 12:40 a.m., arrive 4:40 a.m. (next day)
HND-LAX: Depart 11:55 a.m., arrive 6:30 a.m.

Flights begin March 29, 2020.

https://mobile.twitter.com/xJonNYC/stat ... 4951228416

ORD-NRT ends January 3, 2020, assuming JL takes over the frequency.

DFW-NRT will be the remaining NRT flight.

American will be the only U.S. carrier offering first class to Japan.


I mean... they’re the only U.S. carrier with first class that flies to Japan?...

Anyone know if the other LAX-HND will be a 77W next summer? Guess we’ll find out this weekend.
 
User avatar
UPlog
Posts: 423
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:45 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:09 pm

Be nice if they listed the timings for the existing LAX-HND service to see how everything fit.
 
Judge1310
Posts: 354
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:15 pm

AA did...just click on the link and read from the primary source...
[Edit]: You meant 'existing' and I "over-read" that part. Does AA already fly LAX-HND? If so, I'd imagine that info would be easily found on their website. Besides, it seems that this press release is dedicated to new/upcoming service updates/changes.
Last edited by Judge1310 on Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2163
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:19 pm

Ishrion wrote:
http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2019/American-Airlines-Becomes-the-Only-US-Carrier-to-Serve-Tokyos-Haneda-International-Airport-from-Dallas-Fort-Worth-NET-RTS/default.aspx

DFW-HND 777-300ER (From 772 in application)
LAX-HND 787-9 (from 788 in application)

DFW-HND: Depart 12:35 p.m. Arrive 3:55 p.m. (next day)
HND-DFW: Depart 6:15 p.m. Arrive 4:25 p.m.
LAX-HND: Depart 12:40 a.m., arrive 4:40 a.m. (next day)
HND-LAX: Depart 11:55 a.m., arrive 6:30 a.m.

Flights begin March 29, 2020.

https://mobile.twitter.com/xJonNYC/stat ... 4951228416

ORD-NRT ends January 3, 2020, assuming JL takes over the frequency.

DFW-NRT will be the remaining NRT flight.

American will be the only U.S. carrier offering first class to Japan.


I mean... they’re the only U.S. carrier with first class that flies to Japan?...

Anyone know if the other LAX-HND will be a 77W next summer? Guess we’ll find out this weekend.


Not surprising, but good upguages. So many people speculated the NRT flights wouldn't be shifted, but would be in addition...looks to be wrong.
 
heretothere
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:50 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:25 pm

Reposting from the locked thread:

Does anyone have any insight on why AA has always flown one of their DFW-NRT flights as a RON? It’s very unusual, and I wonder if that was a factor in keeping the last NRT flight.
Last edited by heretothere on Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 1356
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:25 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
AA did...just click on the link and read from the primary source...
[Edit]: You meant 'existing' and I "over-read" that part. Does AA already fly LAX-HND? If so, I'd imagine that info would be easily found on their website. Besides, it seems that this press release is dedicated to new/upcoming service updates/changes.


Yes, AA already flies 1x LAX-HND and currently 1x LAX-NRT. After March, they will be flying 2x LAX-HND.

I’m assuming the current LAX-HND schedule will remain the same... but who knows.
 
c933103
Posts: 3850
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:29 pm

...? That 04:40 arrival at Haneda is not using Haneda's daytime slots, and is not within the scope of this round of slot allocation. If they really get this arrival time slot then does that mean that would free up 0.5 Haneda daytime slot allocated to the USA?
It is not possible to counter violence with peace when the goal of the violence is to take away everything you have. #HongKong
 
AA100
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:57 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:37 pm

I'd be interested to know where the 77W frames will come from? I am assuming LAXHND which will down gauge to 789?
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4510
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:40 pm

Where does it says AA is shifting LAX-NRT to HND in its press release?

The listed midnight flight is the new DOT award. For all we know the existing LAX-NRT stays.
Last edited by mercure1 on Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mercure f-wtcc
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 679
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:41 pm

AA100 wrote:
I'd be interested to know where the 77W frames will come from? I am assuming LAXHND which will down gauge to 789?


The 2 LAX-HND flights will be double daily on a 789. I hope they don’t take away any more 77Ws from JFK, we’re down to just one on JFK-LHR for the winter season, and the USAir/America West management shows no love for New York as we all know.
Last edited by NYCAAer on Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2477
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:42 pm

UPlog wrote:
Be nice if they listed the timings for the existing LAX-HND service to see how everything fit.

I'm flying that one on 12 March...so I can help.

AA27 Depart LAX 1125, Arrive HND 1525 +1
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 23909
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:54 pm

I think we need wait for JAL and for them to announce their new Haneda schedule to get the full picture.

Vasu Raja only last week said they were working on creating a bridge between LAX and Tokyo similar to JFK-LHR where every few hours there was a flight.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Detroit313
Posts: 303
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:57 pm

Receipts that they are shifting LAX - NRT? It doesn't say that anywhere.
 
Sightseer
Posts: 957
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:04 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:08 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Where does it says AA is shifting LAX-NRT to HND in its press release?

The listed midnight flight is the new DOT award. For all we know the existing LAX-NRT stays.


Detroit313 wrote:
Receipts that they are shifting LAX - NRT? It doesn't say that anywhere.

The tweet in the OP seems to confirm the end of AA LAX-NRT.
 
jasoncrh
Posts: 738
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:10 pm

in the tweet from JonNYC, it says that they are shifting all their LAX to Tokyo flying to Haneda. That means that LAXNRT is going away.


Detroit313 wrote:
Receipts that they are shifting LAX - NRT? It doesn't say that anywhere.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 716
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:18 pm

I love that this is the lede they chose "American Airlines Becomes the Only U.S. Carrier to Serve Tokyo’s Haneda International Airport from Dallas-Fort Worth". Couldn't you say this for damn near any international city that AA serves from DFW?
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17657
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:24 pm

Ishrion wrote:
American will be the only U.S. carrier offering first class to Japan.


I mean... they’re the only U.S. carrier with first class that flies to Japan?...

...but didn't bother to put the new F on Japan very much until this schedule. And can't make ORDTYO work... Alrighty.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 1356
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:27 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
American will be the only U.S. carrier offering first class to Japan.


I mean... they’re the only U.S. carrier with first class that flies to Japan?...

...but didn't bother to put the new F on Japan very much until this schedule. And can't make ORDTYO work... Alrighty.


American operated the 77W with F on LAX-HND this summer.
 
Planes4you
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:35 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:53 pm

Im betting JL will replace DFW-NRT with DFW-HND and with that they’ll go up to a 777
 
dcajet
Posts: 4176
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:10 pm

Is this the end of Asia flying out of ORD with AA metal?
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
flight152
Posts: 3417
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:14 pm

dcajet wrote:
Is this the end of Asia flying out of ORD with AA metal?

Why is no one talking about this? This seems to be the big story to me that American can’t seem to make anything to work ORD-Asia.
 
FSDan
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:16 pm

Planes4you wrote:
Im betting JL will replace DFW-NRT with DFW-HND and with that they’ll go up to a 777


I'm not so sure. DFW-TYO isn't a massive local market, so I think AA-JL will want to keep as much connectivity as they can feeding into JL's international network beyond NRT. The AA 77W should be plenty of capacity for the O&D market between DFW and Japan.

I think JL will use their HND allocations on ORD (for sure), LAX (likely), HNL (likely), LAS (quite likely), and some combination of SEA, SAN, and/or BOS (probably SEA and BOS if I had to guess).
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:16 pm

dcajet wrote:
Is this the end of Asia flying out of ORD with AA metal?


Sadly yes it will be for the time being.
 
FSDan
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:20 pm

flight152 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Is this the end of Asia flying out of ORD with AA metal?

Why is no one talking about this? This seems to be the big story to me that American can’t seem to make anything to work ORD-Asia.


It's been talked about quite a bit in the speculation about the HND awards. Quite a few of us thought that AA would drop this route (only 3x weekly to begin with) in favor of JL taking over the whole 2nd daily frequency and moving one of their two daily to HND. However, since the JV is metal-neutral, it really doesn't matter whether it's AA or JL who flies ORD-TYO. JL even departs from T3 so there's no difference in the connecting experience at ORD.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4682
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:21 pm

dcajet wrote:
Is this the end of Asia flying out of ORD with AA metal?

Sure looks that way. ORD-NRT has been down to 3 weekly for a while. I really can't imagine that either ORD-PVG or ORD-PEK are coming back. If they can't make ORD-NRT work with a JV in place, then there's probably no hope for any other Asia flying from ORD. It's a shame because AA has a nice setup at ORD. I connected there this spring on my way to ATH and I found it a convenient experience that I'd happily repeat.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
dcajet
Posts: 4176
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:24 pm

flight152 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Is this the end of Asia flying out of ORD with AA metal?

Why is no one talking about this? This seems to be the big story to me that American can’t seem to make anything to work ORD-Asia.


We certainly won't be hearing anything from American about this. But the fact is that, at least when it comes to Asia ex-ORD, United commands the market's preference, particularly with the premium traveler.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
jayunited
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:40 pm

flight152 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Is this the end of Asia flying out of ORD with AA metal?

Why is no one talking about this? This seems to be the big story to me that American can’t seem to make anything to work ORD-Asia.


I think AA was faced with some tuff choices, they were never going to dominate LAX-Asia market in the same way UA does at SFO or DL at SEA. The LAX market is simply to fractured for any one airline to really control which meant AA had to look west to the powerhouse hub at DFW.
The O&D Asia market from ORD is strong but not strong enough to sustain nonstop daily flights without feed from connecting traffic. Once AA started siphoning feed from ORD to support their DFW-Asia operations it meant their ORD flight became more and more dependent on O&D traffic which simply isn't here. ORD is not NYC, SFO, or LAX without the feed from connecting passengers AA basically had no choice but to end their ORD-Asia flights on AA metal. To be honest I think AA made the right choice sacrificing ORD where they faced fierce competition for the relative safety of DFW where they face less competition to Asia.

As far as LAX-TYO I thought AA would keep their LAX-NRT flight and the HND flight would be in addition to their current HND and NRT flights. It wasn't that long ago that someone from AA stated they wanted to create a LAX-TYO shuttle. Like I stated in the other thread I'm not seeing shuttle service.

Lastly does any one know if AA wanted a 4:40 a.m arrival time slot into HND and a 11:55 a.m. departure from HND? Is this the time slot AA wanted or is this what they ultimately had to settle for. If I'm not mistaken none of DL's or UA's proposed slots have arrivals into HND in the early morning hours. How did AA end up with a 4:40 a.m. arrival into HND?
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 6895
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:11 pm

jayunited wrote:
flight152 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Is this the end of Asia flying out of ORD with AA metal?

Why is no one talking about this? This seems to be the big story to me that American can’t seem to make anything to work ORD-Asia.


I think AA was faced with some tuff choices, they were never going to dominate LAX-Asia market in the same way UA does at SFO or DL at SEA. The LAX market is simply to fractured for any one airline to really control which meant AA had to look west to the powerhouse hub at DFW.
The O&D Asia market from ORD is strong but not strong enough to sustain nonstop daily flights without feed from connecting traffic. Once AA started siphoning feed from ORD to support their DFW-Asia operations it meant their ORD flight became more and more dependent on O&D traffic which simply isn't here. ORD is not NYC, SFO, or LAX without the feed from connecting passengers AA basically had no choice but to end their ORD-Asia flights on AA metal. To be honest I think AA made the right choice sacrificing ORD where they faced fierce competition for the relative safety of DFW where they face less competition to Asia.

As far as LAX-TYO I thought AA would keep their LAX-NRT flight and the HND flight would be in addition to their current HND and NRT flights. It wasn't that long ago that someone from AA stated they wanted to create a LAX-TYO shuttle. Like I stated in the other thread I'm not seeing shuttle service.

Lastly does any one know if AA wanted a 4:40 a.m arrival time slot into HND and a 11:55 a.m. departure from HND? Is this the time slot AA wanted or is this what they ultimately had to settle for. If I'm not mistaken none of DL's or UA's proposed slots have arrivals into HND in the early morning hours. How did AA end up with a 4:40 a.m. arrival into HND?


When the proposed schedule was released on the request for the 2nd LAX-HND frequency, it was scheduled as a late evening LAX departure, early morning Tokyo arrival.

As to ORD-NRT, JL and AA are in a JV, JAL is adding a second flight replacing the AA flight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by chepos on Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
fightforlove
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 7:36 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:14 pm

It must be really telling that AA can't make ORD-Asia work even with 787 Dreamliner technology. Shame, but at least their ORD-Europe expansion seems to be going well.
 
kavok
Posts: 601
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:17 pm

In the application with the US DOT earlier this year, AA did specify that they were looking for a non-traditional flight time for their new (second) LAX-HND bid. With AA already having one LAX-HND flight today (during the normal midday times), AA probably felt the need to specify that a second LAX-HND flight would operate at a different time of day to increase their chances of getting the DOT’s selection of a second LAX-HND slot.
 
FSDan
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:28 pm

kavok wrote:
In the application with the US DOT earlier this year, AA did specify that they were looking for a non-traditional flight time for their new (second) LAX-HND bid. With AA already having one LAX-HND flight today (during the normal midday times), AA probably felt the need to specify that a second LAX-HND flight would operate at a different time of day to increase their chances of getting the DOT’s selection of a second LAX-HND slot.


From what I've heard, NH's late night LAX-HND flight does great. They kept that timing even after the original U.S.-HND allocations were opened up for daytime flights, which is telling.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 23909
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:32 pm

jayunited wrote:
Lastly does any one know if AA wanted a 4:40 a.m arrival time slot into HND and a 11:55 a.m. departure from HND? Is this the time slot AA wanted or is this what they ultimately had to settle for. If I'm not mistaken none of DL's or UA's proposed slots have arrivals into HND in the early morning hours. How did AA end up with a 4:40 a.m. arrival into HND?


AA's proposal called for red-eye from LAX In their application, they felt such timings would be more complimentary for their existing LAX-HND service.

Below was timings they put in their application earlier this year.

LAX-HND 0055-0445
HND-LAX 1145-0635

Remember the timings are also about connectivity on both ends. Arriving into HND so early offers morning departures on JAL network both domestically and other Asia points like Seoul.
AA actually listed 25 JL/oneworld markets it could connect at HND end, and also 23 US market feed into LAX with the midnight departure.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
FSDan
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:32 pm

dcajet wrote:
flight152 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Is this the end of Asia flying out of ORD with AA metal?

Why is no one talking about this? This seems to be the big story to me that American can’t seem to make anything to work ORD-Asia.


We certainly won't be hearing anything from American about this. But the fact is that, at least when it comes to Asia ex-ORD, United commands the market's preference, particularly with the premium traveler.


But even UA appears to be struggling to make ORD-Asia work well lately. They're dropping ORD-HKG indefinitely (obviously the protests were a tipping point, but this was clearly UA's weakest HKG route even before the chaos started...) and likely downgauging ORD-PEK/PVG to 789s later this year as the 787 base gets established and the 772s start getting pulled back.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3307
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:56 pm

Planes4you wrote:
Im betting JL will replace DFW-NRT with DFW-HND and with that they’ll go up to a 777


AA/JL have a JV with immunity. JL has no need to put their NRT route to HND.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7083
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:52 pm

Very sad AA is dumping Chicago to Tokyo, I can understand dumping China but Japan seemed more stable.
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1123
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:41 am

jfk777 wrote:
Very sad AA is dumping Chicago to Tokyo, I can understand dumping China but Japan seemed more stable.

Agreed, it is sad, the worlds largest airline can’t make anything to APAC work out of the norther half of the US.... honestly JAL has a better product in J and better pricing in my experience - elites are the the ones worse off I guess having to find other ways to use swus and miles.
1.4mm and counting...
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6040
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:19 am

jayunited wrote:
he O&D Asia market from ORD is strong but not strong enough to sustain nonstop daily flights without feed from connecting traffic. Once AA started siphoning feed from ORD to support their DFW-Asia operations it meant their ORD flight became more and more dependent on O&D traffic which simply isn't here. ORD is not NYC, SFO, or LAX without the feed from connecting passengers AA basically had no choice but to end their ORD-Asia flights on AA metal. To be honest I think AA made the right choice sacrificing ORD where they faced fierce competition for the relative safety of DFW where they face less competition to Asia.


FSDan's work showed 546 AA flights a day at ORD. There's plenty of capacity and destinations for Asia feed if AA wanted it. You've failed to make an argument why DFW is better for connecting Asia traffic.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420609
 
UA857
Posts: 350
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:41 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:45 am

It´s official AA is ending all ORD-Asia Flights.
 
Pinto
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:30 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:37 am

I think something that everyone is forgetting is that the US carriers can open up any flights they want out of NRT. United and Delta (IIRC) have the ability to open any rout they want and with Narita having no slot restriction it makes sense they are dropping almost all NRT flying. If HND doesn't work out they will just go back to NRT.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12581
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:39 am

Ishrion wrote:
LAX-HND: Depart 12:40 a.m., arrive 4:40 a.m. (next day)

With such an obscene arrival time, that's GOT to be aimed at returning Japan-originating pax.... I know that pre-6am arrivals are somewhat common for California-Asia, but still: the thought getting off a 12hr flight, then having to wait half a day for your hotel room to be guaranteed, or 5hrs+ for your business associates to want to meet with you. Yuck. :(
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 911
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:47 am

LAX772LR wrote:
With such an obscene arrival time, that's GOT to be aimed at returning Japan-originating pax.... I know that pre-6am arrivals are somewhat common for California-Asia, but still: the thought getting off a 12hr flight, then having to wait half a day for your hotel room to be guaranteed, or 5hrs+ for your business associates to want to meet with you. Yuck. :(


Timings work well for beyond connections, which is a point AA made in its original application.

In my previous life such flights were my favorite means to get to Asia on as you had the whole day for beyond travel.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
PHLCVGAMTK
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:50 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:32 am

janders wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
With such an obscene arrival time, that's GOT to be aimed at returning Japan-originating pax.... I know that pre-6am arrivals are somewhat common for California-Asia, but still: the thought getting off a 12hr flight, then having to wait half a day for your hotel room to be guaranteed, or 5hrs+ for your business associates to want to meet with you. Yuck. :(


Timings work well for beyond connections, which is a point AA made in its original application.

In my previous life such flights were my favorite means to get to Asia on as you had the whole day for beyond travel.


Not all of those beyond connections are by air, either. The monorail starts running at 05:18 and the Keikyu line train starts running at 05:26. Catch the right connections to the Shinkansen, and you can be in Nagoya by 07:30 or Sendai by 08:00; the 08:16 arrival at Shin-Osaka probably breaks even against just waiting for the first JL flight of the morning to ITM, but then it becomes a choice based on pricing and aesthetics.


UA857 wrote:
It´s official AA is ending all ORD-Asia Flights.

flight152 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Is this the end of Asia flying out of ORD with AA metal?

Why is no one talking about this? This seems to be the big story to me that American can’t seem to make anything to work ORD-Asia.


I could really do without this kind of nonsense. JL, AA's immunized joint venture partner, is taking over the ORD-TYO flying; to be quite honest, that makes me much more likely to choose to fly oneworld through ORD to Japan, not less. That goes much more so if JL shifts either or both flights from NRT to HND. And it doesn't matter a bit to AA's bottom line who is flying which routes; they get 50% of the profit regardless.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:11 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
he O&D Asia market from ORD is strong but not strong enough to sustain nonstop daily flights without feed from connecting traffic. Once AA started siphoning feed from ORD to support their DFW-Asia operations it meant their ORD flight became more and more dependent on O&D traffic which simply isn't here. ORD is not NYC, SFO, or LAX without the feed from connecting passengers AA basically had no choice but to end their ORD-Asia flights on AA metal. To be honest I think AA made the right choice sacrificing ORD where they faced fierce competition for the relative safety of DFW where they face less competition to Asia.


FSDan's work showed 546 AA flights a day at ORD. There's plenty of capacity and destinations for Asia feed if AA wanted it. You've failed to make an argument why DFW is better for connecting Asia traffic.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420609


If you to do even basic research to track the rise and ultimate fall of AA ORD-Asia gateway you will see it has everything to do with feed. Chicago's O&D market is still the same as it was when AA started ORD-PVG/PEK/NRT. Also looking at the DFW-Asia O&D market it is a smaller than Chicago's which makes DFW just as dependent on connecting traffic. Looking at AA's domestic operations before DFW was an Asia gateway for AA ORD was the only option east of the Mississippi river which mean't if a person east of the river wanted to fly on AA metal to Asia more than likely they connect through Chicago because the only options AA had to Asia from DFW was NRT.

As AA began adding additional destinations to Asia from DFW this led to more empty seats on AA's 77Es at ORD this caused AA to downguage their routes from all 77Es to 788s a sizable reduction in seats. The downguage stabilized AA for a moment, then came the Chinese carriers which siphoned a few O&D passengers from both AA and UA and destabilized prices in the Chicagoland region. However because AA had already siphoned some connecting passengers to support DFW AA's only recourse was to then reduce some of their Asia flights from daily to weekly to stem the tide. The slide continued until now in a few months AA will no longer serve Asia on their own metal from ORD. With DFW now being the only Asia gateway east of the Mississippi river AA again is back where they were before with one gateway west of the Mississippi at LAX and one east at DFW.

Sacrificing ORD for DFW was the right choice because at DFW AA face little competition on most of their on nonstop routes to Asia and one thing we saw here in Chicago once the Chinese airlines enter the PEK and PVG market was the fares tanked. With AA's departure from these routes prices have moderated slightly but for a time it was cheaper to fly from Chicago to PEK than it was to fly from ORD to SFO or LAX in coach. With little to no competition at DFW AA can charge more than they could here in Chicago where they faced stiff competition from UA and Chinese carriers.

The one thing I like about Scott Kirby town halls is he puts most of it out there. Employees at IAH a few years ago when AA was building up their DFW-Asian gateway ask him why UA only serves NRT from IAH and his response was the O&D market in Texas or the South alone can not support additional flights. They would need connecting traffic that is currently being routed to ORD for PEK/PVG and some to IAD for IAD-PEK and UA is not willing to sacrifice ORD or IAD flights for a IAH-Asian gateway. He also said the increase stage length of a IAH-PVG/PEK flight would increase cost over those at either ORD or IAD. So for UA's customers in Texas and the South UA believes they can access Asia through one connection or at most two connections via IAD/EWR/ORD/LAX/SFO/NRT. Make no mistake about it UA may be the strongest U.S. carrier to Asia from the U.S. but ORD-Asia is a difficult market because it is so dependent on a combination of O&D and connecting traffic. Whereas markets like EWR/SFO/LAX have strong O&D in fact at LAX for UA there is very little connecting traffic feeding our NRT/PVG/LHR/SYD flights. LAX-MEL is the only UA international flight that with a high percentage of connecting traffic but that is only because it's UA's only flight to MEL for the time being.
 
FSDan
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:40 pm

jayunited wrote:
With DFW now being the only Asia gateway east of the Mississippi river AA again is back where they were before with one gateway west of the Mississippi at LAX and one east at DFW.


Just to clarify, DFW is well west of the Mississippi... ;)
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5896
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:42 pm

jayunited wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
he O&D Asia market from ORD is strong but not strong enough to sustain nonstop daily flights without feed from connecting traffic. Once AA started siphoning feed from ORD to support their DFW-Asia operations it meant their ORD flight became more and more dependent on O&D traffic which simply isn't here. ORD is not NYC, SFO, or LAX without the feed from connecting passengers AA basically had no choice but to end their ORD-Asia flights on AA metal. To be honest I think AA made the right choice sacrificing ORD where they faced fierce competition for the relative safety of DFW where they face less competition to Asia.


FSDan's work showed 546 AA flights a day at ORD. There's plenty of capacity and destinations for Asia feed if AA wanted it. You've failed to make an argument why DFW is better for connecting Asia traffic.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420609


If you to do even basic research to track the rise and ultimate fall of AA ORD-Asia gateway you will see it has everything to do with feed. Chicago's O&D market is still the same as it was when AA started ORD-PVG/PEK/NRT. Also looking at the DFW-Asia O&D market it is a smaller than Chicago's which makes DFW just as dependent on connecting traffic. Looking at AA's domestic operations before DFW was an Asia gateway for AA ORD was the only option east of the Mississippi river which mean't if a person east of the river wanted to fly on AA metal to Asia more than likely they connect through Chicago because the only options AA had to Asia from DFW was NRT.

As AA began adding additional destinations to Asia from DFW this led to more empty seats on AA's 77Es at ORD this caused AA to downguage their routes from all 77Es to 788s a sizable reduction in seats. The downguage stabilized AA for a moment, then came the Chinese carriers which siphoned a few O&D passengers from both AA and UA and destabilized prices in the Chicagoland region. However because AA had already siphoned some connecting passengers to support DFW AA's only recourse was to then reduce some of their Asia flights from daily to weekly to stem the tide. The slide continued until now in a few months AA will no longer serve Asia on their own metal from ORD. With DFW now being the only Asia gateway east of the Mississippi river AA again is back where they were before with one gateway west of the Mississippi at LAX and one east at DFW.

Sacrificing ORD for DFW was the right choice because at DFW AA face little competition on most of their on nonstop routes to Asia and one thing we saw here in Chicago once the Chinese airlines enter the PEK and PVG market was the fares tanked. With AA's departure from these routes prices have moderated slightly but for a time it was cheaper to fly from Chicago to PEK than it was to fly from ORD to SFO or LAX in coach. With little to no competition at DFW AA can charge more than they could here in Chicago where they faced stiff competition from UA and Chinese carriers.

The one thing I like about Scott Kirby town halls is he puts most of it out there. Employees at IAH a few years ago when AA was building up their DFW-Asian gateway ask him why UA only serves NRT from IAH and his response was the O&D market in Texas or the South alone can not support additional flights. They would need connecting traffic that is currently being routed to ORD for PEK/PVG and some to IAD for IAD-PEK and UA is not willing to sacrifice ORD or IAD flights for a IAH-Asian gateway. He also said the increase stage length of a IAH-PVG/PEK flight would increase cost over those at either ORD or IAD. So for UA's customers in Texas and the South UA believes they can access Asia through one connection or at most two connections via IAD/EWR/ORD/LAX/SFO/NRT. Make no mistake about it UA may be the strongest U.S. carrier to Asia from the U.S. but ORD-Asia is a difficult market because it is so dependent on a combination of O&D and connecting traffic. Whereas markets like EWR/SFO/LAX have strong O&D in fact at LAX for UA there is very little connecting traffic feeding our NRT/PVG/LHR/SYD flights. LAX-MEL is the only UA international flight that with a high percentage of connecting traffic but that is only because it's UA's only flight to MEL for the time being.


IAH is a Latin American gateway for UA. Not really anything else. They feed some domestic connections into the South and Texas, but thats not really the purpose it serves for UA.

As to why UA wont launch more Asia from IAH, it makes sense to me. Foreign carriers have filled in a lot of that void anyway. What makes less sense is UA cutting IAH's number of domestic destinations.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
jayunited
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:15 pm

FSDan wrote:
jayunited wrote:
With DFW now being the only Asia gateway east of the Mississippi river AA again is back where they were before with one gateway west of the Mississippi at LAX and one east at DFW.


Just to clarify, DFW is well west of the Mississippi... ;)


My apologies but you get the point ORD like DFW like IAH need both O&D and connection traffic to make Asia work take away one of those and you can't make Asia work even on a 788.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 1356
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:10 am

Looks like the flights are being loaded... LAX-NRT and 1x DFW-NRT no longer bookable as of March 29, 2020.

I guess we'll find out shortly where the 77W for DFW-HND is coming from...
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 6895
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:25 am

Ishrion wrote:
Looks like the flights are being loaded... LAX-NRT and 1x DFW-NRT no longer bookable as of March 29, 2020.

I guess we'll find out shortly where the 77W for DFW-HND is coming from...


I know LAX-HND is loosing the 77W shortly. (even though by all accounts it performed well on the route). Where are they moving this frame to?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 1356
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:10 am

chepos wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Looks like the flights are being loaded... LAX-NRT and 1x DFW-NRT no longer bookable as of March 29, 2020.

I guess we'll find out shortly where the 77W for DFW-HND is coming from...


I know LAX-HND is loosing the 77W shortly. (even though by all accounts it performed well on the route). Where are they moving this frame to?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thought it was moving back to MIA-EZE for their summer season?

I’m truthfully predicting MIA-GRU/EZE or DFW-GRU may possibly be downgauged to a 772 in order to free up the 77W on DFW-HND... as AA/LATAM are cutting ties...
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25779
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: AA Shifts LAX-NRT to HND, Shifts 1x DFW-NRT to HND; Ends ORD-NRT

Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:26 am

Ishrion wrote:
chepos wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Looks like the flights are being loaded... LAX-NRT and 1x DFW-NRT no longer bookable as of March 29, 2020.

I guess we'll find out shortly where the 77W for DFW-HND is coming from...


I know LAX-HND is loosing the 77W shortly. (even though by all accounts it performed well on the route). Where are they moving this frame to?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thought it was moving back to MIA-EZE for their summer season?

I’m truthfully predicting MIA-GRU/EZE or DFW-GRU may possibly be downgauged to a 772 in order to free up the 77W on DFW-HND... as AA/LATAM are cutting ties...


It doesn’t matter that AA and LATAM are cutting ties. MIAEZE and MIAGRU are massive local markets. Literally each is probably 10x the size of DFWTYO. Sure, the plan might come from there, but it will have absolutely nothing to do with that relationship ending. These predictions about the LATAM fallout are inane.
a.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos