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Pudelhund
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Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:36 am

I wonder what the timeline is on receiving Brasil’s A350 fleet, like how long it takes for them to get a Delta cabin and repainted and joining the fleet. I wonder how this changes DL route planning in 2020 and if we see any new A350 routes. Could it be that DL also wanted this fleet because it has higher MTOW versions for Asia?
 
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lesfalls
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LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:02 am

With DL placing money into LATAM (https://onemileatatime.com/delta-latam/) just the other day, LATAM has already started to change terminals at JFK (from T8 to T4 where DL is based) and added extra flights to DLs JFK and LAX hubs. With this being the case in the U.S will we be seeing a change like this at MAD as IB is currently their oneworld partner in Europe? Maybe they'll move to T1/T2 where Air Europa is based and use them as their connecting partner? Could we even see them move all their flights to a SKYteam hub in Europe such as AMS or CDG? LHR too could be a good choice where they as they operate flights and Virgin Atlantic is a skyteam partner.

Your thoughs?
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LGAviation
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Re: LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:24 am

A very good question! I don't think there is an answer at this time as the LA shift away from OW is mainly about the Americas. In the long run, I see it both as a challenge and an opportunity.

It's a challenge because a significant chunk of LA's Europe traffic is MAD O&D and they will want to retain sufficient connectivity to MAD. At the same time, Air Europa can hardly offer adequate connections and IB is a strong competitor which is why I think they will add flights to CDG (they didn't even try and get more LHR slots when BA was their partner and VS's short haul network is non-existent and AMS is just too far north for connections and has less demand to Latin America).
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davidjohnson6
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Re: LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:26 am

The advantage of Latam using Madrid as their European focus was not just linguistic but also business ties, and convenient geography. If Latam do decide to move from Madrid to (for example) Paris they would be breaking up the ties that gave them an almost oligopolistic pricing power. This would be fantastic for passengers as it would drastically increase competition but maybe less good for Latam's profits
 
lhrsfosyd91
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Re: LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:30 am

LATAM flies to MAD not only because of IB but primarily because of the large traffic from Spain itself to South America. I don't see it changing as Air Europa will replace Iberia as a feeder.

Unlikely LATAM would open up new routes to LHR as DL/VS presence is irrelevant and nobody would connect beyond LHR to VS/DL expect for maybe TLV/BOM/DEL. VS is opening up a new route to GRU and that makes it double daily from GRU to LHR which is sufficient. SCL-LHR wouldn't make money without European feed.

I do see LATAM opening up GRU-AMS which must be the largest unserved European station. I also see KL/LA working together to offer a nonstop SCL-AMS.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:37 am

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
LATAM flies to MAD not only because of IB but primarily because of the large traffic from Spain itself to South America. I don't see it changing as Air Europa will replace Iberia as a feeder.

Unlikely LATAM would open up new routes to LHR as DL/VS presence is irrelevant and nobody would connect beyond LHR to VS/DL expect for maybe TLV/BOM/DEL. VS is opening up a new route to GRU and that makes it double daily from GRU to LHR which is sufficient. SCL-LHR wouldn't make money without European feed.

I do see LATAM opening up GRU-AMS which must be the largest unserved European station. I also see KL/LA working together to offer a nonstop SCL-AMS.

In addition to adding on to your remark about LATAM partnering with Air Europa as their new feeder, Air Europa and AF/KL are working on a joint-venture so this could be part of a greater plan?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.europa ... 71703.html
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SCQ83
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Re: LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:37 am

LGAviation wrote:
A very good question! I don't think there is an answer at this time as the LA shift away from OW is mainly about the Americas. In the long run, I see it both as a challenge and an opportunity.

It's a challenge because a significant chunk of LA's Europe traffic is MAD O&D and they will want to retain sufficient connectivity to MAD. At the same time, Air Europa can hardly offer adequate connections and IB is a strong competitor which is why I think they will add flights to CDG (they didn't even try and get more LHR slots when BA was their partner and VS's short haul network is non-existent and AMS is just too far north for connections and has less demand to Latin America).


I think they will move to UX. Air Europa has been moving heavily towards a JV with AFKL and DL is also connected to AFKL. Iberia on the other hand has a JV TATL partnership with AA. So it doesn't seem like Delta will be happy with LATAM mixing with IAG.

UX is certainly not IB but they can offer adequate connections to Madrid, the main Spanish markets and major European cities. Some secondary cities in the UK, France, Germany or Italy will not be longer connected, but that (likely small markets) will be offset with the LATAM flights to LHR (VS), CDG (AF), AMS (KL) and FCO (AZ).

I really don't like UX but I think it will be good for the Spanish costumers. Some markets like MAD-SCL (almost 500k/year PAX) are a monopoly today. This will shake the market a bit.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:08 am

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
LATAM flies to MAD not only because of IB but primarily because of the large traffic from Spain itself to South America. I don't see it changing as Air Europa will replace Iberia as a feeder.

Unlikely LATAM would open up new routes to LHR as DL/VS presence is irrelevant and nobody would connect beyond LHR to VS/DL expect for maybe TLV/BOM/DEL. VS is opening up a new route to GRU and that makes it double daily from GRU to LHR which is sufficient. SCL-LHR wouldn't make money without European feed.

I do see LATAM opening up GRU-AMS which must be the largest unserved European station. I also see KL/LA working together to offer a nonstop SCL-AMS.


What about Flybe for domestic UK feed?

Separately, I didn't know that LA/JJ were now Terminal 4 airlines at JFK. It must be a gate crunch with so many DL partners there.
 
lhrsfosyd91
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Re: LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:30 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
LATAM flies to MAD not only because of IB but primarily because of the large traffic from Spain itself to South America. I don't see it changing as Air Europa will replace Iberia as a feeder.

Unlikely LATAM would open up new routes to LHR as DL/VS presence is irrelevant and nobody would connect beyond LHR to VS/DL expect for maybe TLV/BOM/DEL. VS is opening up a new route to GRU and that makes it double daily from GRU to LHR which is sufficient. SCL-LHR wouldn't make money without European feed.

I do see LATAM opening up GRU-AMS which must be the largest unserved European station. I also see KL/LA working together to offer a nonstop SCL-AMS.


What about Flybe for domestic UK feed?

Separately, I didn't know that LA/JJ were now Terminal 4 airlines at JFK. It must be a gate crunch with so many DL partners there.


Little and irrelevant traffic. Most connect to France, Italy, Germany, Spain and Netherlands.
 
jagraham
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Re: LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:38 am

DL won't upset the applecart where things are working for LATAM. Besides, they are having LATAM make big changes in US flying, so to change Europe at the same time is a lot to juggle.
The bigger question is whether IB will remain cooperative at their current level. IB has problems of its own, which I would think would encourage them to be nice to LATAM for the time being. But Oneworld as a whole can't be happy with IB supporting Skyteam. It will be interesting, but I expect the plans to unfold over 5 to 10 years in Europe for LATAM.
 
SEAflyer97
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Re: LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:31 pm

jagraham wrote:
DL won't upset the applecart where things are working for LATAM. Besides, they are having LATAM make big changes in US flying, so to change Europe at the same time is a lot to juggle.
The bigger question is whether IB will remain cooperative at their current level. IB has problems of its own, which I would think would encourage them to be nice to LATAM for the time being. But Oneworld as a whole can't be happy with IB supporting Skyteam. It will be interesting, but I expect the plans to unfold over 5 to 10 years in Europe for LATAM.

LATAM is not joining SkyTeam.
 
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Aisak
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Re: LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:40 pm

LGAviation wrote:
Air Europa can hardly offer adequate connections

I have to ask.... WHY?

jagraham wrote:
IB has problems of its own

Such as...?

jagraham wrote:
But Oneworld as a whole can't be happy with IB supporting Skyteam.


First, LATAM as stated they will be leaving oneworld, but nothing about joining Skyteam.

And IB has been codesharing and having a FF agreement with Star’s Avianca for years. And with TACA way before they were folded into Avianca. Also codeshares with Czech airlines in Skyteam.
Also with the archenemy Emirates even with partner and OWNER Qatar around... and they are all housed at T4 along with IB to facilitate connections and serviced by handling subsidiary IB airport services....

And oneworld seems happy
 
airbazar
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Re: LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:47 pm

lesfalls wrote:
Could we even see them move all their flights to a SKYteam hub in Europe such as AMS or CDG? LHR too could be a good choice where they as they operate flights and Virgin Atlantic is a skyteam partner.

Nope, never.
As stated before, their relatively heavy presence in MAD has little to do with the Alliance itself and more to do with demand between Latin America and Spain. Same reason why I don't see them abandoning or reducing MIA in any meaningful way.
I could see maybe an increase of flights to CDG. CDG is currently served from GRU and LIM is served from AMS. There is no link between SCL and AMS/CDG so I could see a SCL-CDG route added soon.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:48 pm

LGAviation wrote:

It's a challenge because a significant chunk of LA's Europe traffic is MAD O&D and they will want to retain sufficient connectivity to MAD.


That's probably the basis of a very good answer. I went looking for Spanish tourism statistics to get numbers of arrivals from primary LATAM countries but without success. Without Spanish language skills I wasn't having much luck with the sites of the National Statistics Institute or Industry, Trade and Tourism Ministry sites. 11.4 million German tourists last year! 18.5 million from the UK - but I promise you few Chilean tourists arrived to Spain by ferry. :)
 
DWC
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Re: LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:01 pm

airbazar wrote:
I could see maybe an increase of flights to CDG. CDG is currently served from GRU and LIM is served from AMS. There is no link between SCL and AMS/CDG so I could see a SCL-CDG route added soon.

AF already fly a daily 777 to SCL & KLM a 787.
I can see a LA flight SCL-CDG seconding the GRU-CDG flight, but only if LA interlines with AF.
That would be easier if LA joined Skyteam.

In fact, even if DL are heavily investing in some airlines, Skyteam are becoming THE powerhouse to Latin America, as AF/KLM were the second player after LA/IB, until now. With LA leaving OneWorld, I don't know if that means severing their JV with IB, but with DL investing, AF/KLM/LA are now the first combo between EU & LatAm.

I also don't see LA staying alone with no alliance, like EK.
I find their entry into Skyteam way more probable than not, but what do I know...
Last edited by DWC on Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:02 pm

This is the third or fourth different thread this has come up in: Latam have already said they intend to maintain their existing partnership with IB and BA (and QF as well for that matter).
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
DWC
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Re: LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:09 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
This is the third or fourth different thread this has come up in: Latam have already said they intend to maintain their existing partnership with IB and BA (and QF as well for that matter).

Yes, so many me-too threads, good for traffic & advertisers.

Well, We'll see if LA keep up their word.
QF dumped DXB back to SIN after 5 years & QF are playing solo with their Sunrise project.
Just looked at the map again : DL's appetites going global, just toy with DL buying QF stock & forcing them to leave DFW for SEA or ATL...
 
globalflyer
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LATAM and ATL

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:30 pm

I know it is very early but I would be curious to see if DL would allow LA to add capacity into ATL with it own metal to supplement each other on routes such as SCL, GRU, LIM, etc? I do think that this was a brilliant move on DL's part!
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dmorbust
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Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:34 pm

SonomaFlyer wrote:
ITSTours wrote:
Will Delta try to form a JV with LATAM?


This will be more than that, LATM will become part of the Delta Alliance. I do agree that this price doesn't include the 359s yet to be delivered but I think a fair reading is it does include the four 359s currently with LATM (plus the $350m to leave OneWorld). Huge coup.


The price does not include the 4 A350s. On the LATAM conference call yesterday at 10 AM eastern they made that clear, although LATAM would not disclose (actually said it was confidential) how much DL paid for the 4 A350s. The other ten DL will assume delivery directly from Airbus.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: LATAM and ATL

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:36 pm

globalflyer wrote:
I know it is very early but I would be curious to see if DL would allow LA to add capacity into ATL with it own metal to supplement each other on routes such as SCL, GRU, LIM, etc? I do think that this was a brilliant move on DL's part!


Why? ATL is basically replacing DFW for onward connections. LA never served DFW and I dont see why they would serve ATL. DL already serves those destinations so they should be good. Whats more likely is that DL adds routes from MIA.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
jumbojet
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Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:03 pm

dcajet wrote:
Now American is denying they did this. Not sure what to think at this point.

https://twitter.com/crankyflier/status/ ... 2037548032


any update on this? Has this situation been rectified?
 
Jomar777
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Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:33 pm

Bad move for passengers on LATAM Brasil since it might receive DLs old planes rather than new ones. It will stop doubling up with BA on LHR and IB on MAD but it will have VS and UX instead which will fly new planes.
Financially makes sense and DL gets new planes but for LATAM It will be left mainly the task of provide feeders for DL and the support on South America.
GOL Will probably benefit with a link up with AA which will make them a strong competitor on the Brazilian market plus probably a tie up with BA and possibly IB on codeshare. Contrary to some, I feel GOL and not Azul will join OW and Brazilians will rely more on BA and IB.
Wonder what the impact will be for AF and KL who use GOL's Network.
I never really looked with good eyes the tie up between TAM and LAN and, whilst this might just work for Chile, for the Brazilian side it is bad
 
Jomar777
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Re: LATAM and ATL

Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:41 pm

The odds is that on North America there will not be really an increase on LA's metal flying. DL will use them much more as feeders in South America. VS Will start GRU next year and I wonder if this is related meaning that they and not LATAM will be serving LON soon. The clue would be on whether UX increases frequencies to South America at LA's expense soon
 
SJPBR
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Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:47 pm

That’s a major movement that will affect all companies in Brazil-US market. My thoughts about it:

1 – LATAM: One more sign that they are clueless on what they do after LAN bought TAM. But this is another issue. For a market perspective they got cash (that they need), dumped some WB that they committed but cannot afford and got a strong partner in an agreement in a level that AA maybe not wanted. I am sure that this was discussed with AA before they reach an agreement with DELTA. This will imply in some changes in their network. Despite that some people believe not all Brazil-USA market in Florida bound. In fact in most GRU-MIA and all other Brazil-MIA from secondary market there is a lot of flyers using connections with AA. To be honest I traveled Brazil-USA at least 4 times year in the last 15 years, using Brazil-MIA as my initial travel and NEVER stayed in MIA. Always connecting. LATAM may shift one of the 2 77W from MIA do ATL in order to get these connections. Delta may resume and upgauge ATL-GRU as it was 4-5 years ago. I don’t think that the secondary Brazilian markets (like SSA, REC, CNF) can survive without connections in the USA side. They will probably channel these passengers to GRU-ATL.
TAM has been in StarA and still keeps codeshare with LH/SW in several flights in Europe, as also with SA. Also TAM had an AA agreement before Star Alliance and interlined in several flights. They still interline with United. I was kind of shocked with the instantaneous “zero availability” in the system. I hope that this is a mistake. I am organizing a meeting latter this year in Brazil and have a few guests in AA/LATAM tickets.

2 – AA: It is not a tragedy as some are trying to point it out. The JV was a crime. This would never be approved since it was going to a “de facto” monopoly. AA has a very strong FA base in Brazil, and especially in Sao Paulo. As another user pointed out the AAdvantage Credit card is issued in Brazil. They still have an AAdmiral Club in GRU and send 3 77W/day here with a true F class. They also have a hangar doing mx down here. AA has been committed with Brazil for years and it will be so in the next years. They still have a very good connecting point in MIA and DFW and are very competitive in both equipment and price in GRU. They also have a small but efficient operation in MAO. Their service to EZE and SCL will be as it was before. Their problem now would be how to get connecting pax down here. There are two options: a) go for a G3 agreement (Azul is too weak in GRU) and/or b) Go back to secondary markets like CNF, SSA, FOR and others. But hey need more 788 to do it.

3 – Delta: The winner of this. From a secondary player in Brazil market to a very competitive one. They will need to increase ATL flights and/or gauge and maybe resume flights to LAX/DTW (for sure in the future). They already had the connectivity in Brazilian side with G3, but they will have access to LATAM FF base. This need to be sorted out in FF integration or the deal will be worthless in a pax perspective. In fact this is the point that I am personally concerned as a LATAM top tier FF. They may leave secondary markets to LATAM. I guess also MCO-GRU will resume. They may also increase MIA as a focus city in order to accommodate GRU-US connections, but they still need to rely on ATL and in minor degree in JFK and BOS.

4 – G3. WOW. I would love to be a fly on their wall in the last couple of days. I guess the phone calls to Dallas are in a record number. They need to get a AA interline/codeshare, their MAX back in the air and hope for survive. Cloudy weather in their HQ for the next months.

5 – UA. This is probably intriguing UA. They have a very competent operation in Brazil. They fly GRU to their major hubs changing gauge all the time based on their demand/season. They lack a Brazilian partner since AV Brazil is gone. AD has been their partner for a while and has codesharing/FF collaboration. But AD lacks GRU presence. This can be a opportunity for a IAH-VCP flight and try to get the connections pax from SP state and others. They also can put some capital in AD in order to increase GRU presence and bring it to StarA (I would love this scenario) but I think that is unlikely. More unlikely would after G3. I guess they will stay put.

6 – AD. They need to join UA, launch VCP-XXX (being XXX a hub of a partner) and increase GRU presence. Do they have capital for this?
 
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DL747400
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Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:49 pm

flymco753 wrote:
If anything this will further validate MCO as a connecting point to South America for Delta. Expanding at MIA is pure speculation?


Based on his comments to the press on the evening of the DL / LATAM announcement, Ed Bastian seems to disagree.
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Polot
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Re: LATAM and ATL

Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:56 pm

To be honest I think A.net is predicting a much more radical shift in terms of flying than what will actually end up happening. Let’s keep in mind that LATAM is losing 4 A350s and not taking delivery of 10 additional ones anymore. We are not going to see a dramatic shift in LATAM’s current focus. DL will do more to accommodate LATAM (eg, add some more probably domestic points from MIA) than LATAM will do to accommodate DL.
 
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DL747400
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Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:12 pm

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
LATAM is going to get squeezed now with full force flying to North America and Europe by AA and IB. LATAM might have cut off its nose to spite its face.


Let's flip this around for an alternative to the perspective you have presented. Consider that AA / BA / IB are likely to get squeezed now with full force flying North America and Europe to South America by a combined powerhouse involving DL / LATAM / AM / AF / KL / VS. Perhaps even by WS on Canada to South American (eventually).

Obviously, it will take DL and LATAM a while to get everything approved, coordinated, implemented and running smoothly, but is seems very clear that there are ominous new competitive threats on the horizon which will soon be challenging the one of AA's longstanding profit centers and cornerstones; their Latin American network.
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
ODwyerPW
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Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:12 pm

dcajet wrote:
WIll QATAR exit LATAM now? I would pay to see Delta and Qatar sitting in the same board room!!!


that would be fun
learning never stops.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:16 pm

DL747400 wrote:
Obviously, it will take DL and LATAM a while to get everything approved, coordinated, implemented and running smoothly, but is seems very clear that there are ominous new competitive threats on the horizon which will soon be challenging the one of AA's longstanding profit centers and cornerstones; their Latin American network.


hopefully things get coordinated between DL and LATAM soon. I tried a dummy booking on LATAM, ATL to GRU and LATAM.com has me flying JetBlue ATL-BOS and then LATAM BOS-GRU.
 
InThrustWeTrust
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Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:23 pm

And Delta seems to be very happy with A350.
 
miaami
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Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:26 pm

How long until we see DL equipment on MIA-GRU/GIG/EZE/SCL/LIM/BOG?
 
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DL747400
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Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:32 pm

jumbojet wrote:
hopefully things get coordinated between DL and LATAM soon. I tried a dummy booking on LATAM, ATL to GRU and LATAM.com has me flying JetBlue ATL-BOS and then LATAM BOS-GRU.


I've seen crazy routings and connections like that on their site as well, some involving airlines with which LATAM is not aligned. This indicates that LATAM may not (yet) be very sophisticated in terms of fully utilizing the latest shopping technologies. Are they not very advanced in the areas revenue & inventory management, or are they understaffed in these areas? Perhaps they are simply using an aggregator on the backend? Or perhaps they are using one of the broader GDS shopping engines without applying filters to ensure that shopping results both conform to business rules and are supportive of the overall business strategy?
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
gk23
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Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:34 pm

I have not had a chance to read through everything, but does this mean we can expect to see Delta livery 787s?
 
bnatraveler
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Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:36 pm

Questions — while details have not been provided (from what I’ve read), that money could be used for marketing efforts to promote the partnership; sales efforts to win corporate contracts (away from AA); co-location of facilities at airports; changes and rollout of aligned FF benefits; project work associated with re-aligning and optimizing the networks and schedules; IT work; etc. The money will probably be spent over several years.


I wonder if DL is going to get LA/JJ to move to AIR4 like they have done with VS. DL has said that one of the issues in a consistent experience between SkyTeam partners has been IT, and moving their internal 'alliance' to their own platform would start to resolve that issue. DL has made big investments in IT to support their own operations and allow them to be more efficient and customer-minded, and I am surprised that other than VS moving to their platform that there has been no other substantive news about it going further. https://news.delta.com/providing-virgin ... e-platform

I am well aware of DL's distribution issues out of their customized version of WorldSpan, but I think some of those 'issues' are intentional.
 
IWMBH
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Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:38 pm

gk23 wrote:
I have not had a chance to read through everything, but does this mean we can expect to see Delta livery 787s?


Nope, the 787 will stay at LATAM in their livery. The only planes transferred are 4 A350's that are still on order.
Delta bought hasn't bought the whole company just a stake.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:42 pm

IWMBH wrote:
gk23 wrote:
I have not had a chance to read through everything, but does this mean we can expect to see Delta livery 787s?


Nope, the 787 will stay at LATAM in their livery. The only planes transferred are 4 A350's that are still on order.
Delta bought hasn't bought the whole company just a stake.


actually DL gets 4 350's that are currently with LATAM and the other 10 are still on the order books. 2 get delivered late 2020 and the other 12 between 2021 and 2025. Also, DL takes 2 more A350's from their own orderbook early in 2020
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2067
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: LATAM and ATL

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:45 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
globalflyer wrote:
I know it is very early but I would be curious to see if DL would allow LA to add capacity into ATL with it own metal to supplement each other on routes such as SCL, GRU, LIM, etc? I do think that this was a brilliant move on DL's part!


Why? ATL is basically replacing DFW for onward connections. LA never served DFW and I dont see why they would serve ATL. DL already serves those destinations so they should be good. Whats more likely is that DL adds routes from MIA.


I don't see DL adding any MIA to Latin America routes, sorry. LATAM have something like 10 flights a day at MIA and that's enough to cover the market. DL can add more capacity to feed connections yes, but Delta has tried to grow MIA internationally, though principally to Europe, and it has not worked.
 
luckyone
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Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:55 pm

I know I'm probably dreaming, but I was thinking last night a 2-3 times weekly flight to CWB would be incredibly helpful for me to visit in-laws.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6193
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: LATAM and ATL

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:59 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
globalflyer wrote:
I know it is very early but I would be curious to see if DL would allow LA to add capacity into ATL with it own metal to supplement each other on routes such as SCL, GRU, LIM, etc? I do think that this was a brilliant move on DL's part!


Why? ATL is basically replacing DFW for onward connections. LA never served DFW and I dont see why they would serve ATL. DL already serves those destinations so they should be good. Whats more likely is that DL adds routes from MIA.


I don't see DL adding any MIA to Latin America routes, sorry. LATAM have something like 10 flights a day at MIA and that's enough to cover the market. DL can add more capacity to feed connections yes, but Delta has tried to grow MIA internationally, though principally to Europe, and it has not worked.


That wasnt what I meant. I mean adding flights to MIA from other points in the US or simply adding frequency from its current routes.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
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chepos
Posts: 7273
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

LATAM and ATL

Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:07 pm

I think DL will strategically add flights where it makes sense, but the goal with this JV is not to recklessly flood the market ala what some anetters suggest. ATl-GRU does not need 5 flights a day and MSP will not be getting LATAM flights.


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Fly the Flag!!!!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26252
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: LATAM and ATL

Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:25 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
globalflyer wrote:
I know it is very early but I would be curious to see if DL would allow LA to add capacity into ATL with it own metal to supplement each other on routes such as SCL, GRU, LIM, etc? I do think that this was a brilliant move on DL's part!


Why? ATL is basically replacing DFW for onward connections. LA never served DFW and I dont see why they would serve ATL. DL already serves those destinations so they should be good. Whats more likely is that DL adds routes from MIA.


I don't see DL adding any MIA to Latin America routes, sorry. LATAM have something like 10 flights a day at MIA and that's enough to cover the market. DL can add more capacity to feed connections yes, but Delta has tried to grow MIA internationally, though principally to Europe, and it has not worked.


Delta’s CEO flat out said on Thursday that it will grow in Miami.
a.
 
Cointrin330
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Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: LATAM and ATL

Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:26 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:

Why? ATL is basically replacing DFW for onward connections. LA never served DFW and I dont see why they would serve ATL. DL already serves those destinations so they should be good. Whats more likely is that DL adds routes from MIA.


I don't see DL adding any MIA to Latin America routes, sorry. LATAM have something like 10 flights a day at MIA and that's enough to cover the market. DL can add more capacity to feed connections yes, but Delta has tried to grow MIA internationally, though principally to Europe, and it has not worked.


Delta’s CEO flat out said on Thursday that it will grow in Miami.


Good luck.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26252
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: LATAM and ATL

Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:27 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:

I don't see DL adding any MIA to Latin America routes, sorry. LATAM have something like 10 flights a day at MIA and that's enough to cover the market. DL can add more capacity to feed connections yes, but Delta has tried to grow MIA internationally, though principally to Europe, and it has not worked.


Delta’s CEO flat out said on Thursday that it will grow in Miami.


Good luck.


AA is incredibly weak right now with a poor product and doesn’t make money flying passengers. Delta sees these vulnerability.
a.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8261
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: LATAM and ATL

Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:28 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
That wasnt what I meant. I mean adding flights to MIA from other points in the US or simply adding frequency from its current routes.


To the extent that LATAM MIA-XXX is duplicating DL ATL-XXX flying, with USA-MIA adds you're just diluting the ATL hub. That's a violation of Hub Economics 101.

Yesterday DL execs said that this JV flying could be accommodated within the existing PWA -- no incremental scope relief would be needed. I expect that DALPA will be watching the balance of flying very carefully. Because of the variety of widebodies already flying through/out of ATL it's perhaps the easiest place from which DL can add long-haul capacity.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10177
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:30 pm

DWC wrote:
In fact, even if DL are heavily investing in some airlines, Skyteam are becoming THE powerhouse to Latin America, as AF/KLM were the second player after LA/IB, until now.

I don't agree. Spain/Iberia/OW are way ahead of everyone else. A mere shift of one relatively small player from OW to ST isn't going to change that. And yes in the TATL market LATAM are a small player. And then there's TAP who although don't have a big presence in Latin America, does have a huge presence in Brazil which happens to be the largest economy and largest market in Latin America by a very large margin, plus AV and CM which are also in *A. Personally I think ST even with LATAM are still 3rd behind OW and *A.
 
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DL747400
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:04 pm

Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:33 pm

bnatraveler wrote:
I wonder if DL is going to get LA/JJ to move to AIR4 like they have done with VS. DL has said that one of the issues in a consistent experience between SkyTeam partners has been IT, and moving their internal 'alliance' to their own platform would start to resolve that issue. DL has made big investments in IT to support their own operations and allow them to be more efficient and customer-minded, and I am surprised that other than VS moving to their platform that there has been no other substantive news about it going further. https://news.delta.com/providing-virgin ... e-platform.


I thought DL had said at one point that they would be moving AM to AIR4 as well.

https://www.military.com/jobview/Senior ... d7ec3a4820

Did that not happen, or has AM's move to AIR4 been delayed?
Last edited by DL747400 on Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dfwjim1
Posts: 2453
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: LATAM and ATL

Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:34 pm

And don't forget that the South Florida to South America market is huge in itself so I believe the only thing that might happen at MIA is for DL to add a few more domestic flights to and from MIA.
 
braniff2hav
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:20 pm

Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:35 pm

Well .. this is both sides of the story, note that LA publishes no agreement and AA publishes there is an agreement, as of 1135a CT 28Sep19

W/*LA‡*AA«
LA-045 LATAM AIRLINES GROUP/LATAM AIRLINES GROUP S.A

CANNOT ISSUE TKT-NO AGREEMENT ON FILE
AA-001 AMERICAN AIRLINES/AMERICAN AIRLINES, INC.

CANNOT CHECK BAGGAGE NO AGREEMENT ON FILE
AA

W/*AA‡*LA«
AA-001 AMERICAN AIRLINES/AMERICAN AIRLINES, INC.

MAY ISSUE TICKETS INCLUDING
LA-045 LATAM AIRLINES GROUP/LATAM AIRLINES GROUP S.A

MAY CHECK BAGGAGE TO
LA
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 1119
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: LATAM MAD hub to move/change due to DL acquisition?

Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:49 pm

lesfalls wrote:
LHR too could be a good choice where they as they operate flights and Virgin Atlantic is a skyteam partner.

Your thoughs?

VS is not in Skyteam
 
LAOCA
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: Delta buying 20% of LATAM

Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:51 pm

DeSpringbokke wrote:
So what is Delta going to do with these additional 14 A350s? I doubt they’ll be doing any South American flying unless launch LAX-Deep South America, which I expect they’ll at least be flying LAX-GRU. A mix of the A333/A339s will likely comprise most of Delta’s Deep South America flights after this is approved. The A350s take over the West Coast-Asia flying that Delta initially intended? Also, Delta will take four A359s from LATAM starting at the end of next year. LATAM had ten A35Js on order. No mention by Bastian of whether Delta will convert the A35J order into the A359s. Noted that Airbus really needs to build more A35Js. What happens to the deferred 10 A359s? If I remember correctly, these aircraft can be converted to other orders. Perhaps Delta converts them into additional A339s? Mentioned earlier, how will the additional 14 A350s affect Delta’s aircraft retirement schedule? They are too big to be 763 replacements unless Delta continues to do some serious upgauging. This assumes the 777 fleet isn’t going anywhere before 2025.


I agree with this assessment. 39 is too many 350s for DL. I think the last 10 already coming in will be replacing the 777ERs. They could be replacements for the LR as well, but not by 2025. The 350s main purpose it to fly missions the 339 cannot. Or at least not as efficiently.

It would be interesting to see a few 350-1000s onboarded, but there are limited markets in which the extra size would make sense for DL. Be great to see, but I suspect that part of these orders will be deferred, or replaced with 339s. Perhaps even more 321NEOs.

As far as being 767 replacements, no way.

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