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MLIAA
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AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:34 pm

After the earth shattering move by DL to acquire 20% of LATAM, AA/oneworld is left without a partner in Latin America, which was the standout bright spot of the airline/alliance.

oneworld needs a new partner in South America. Gol? Argentina? COPA? Further boost/invest in Interjet?

Personally, I’d love to see AA mend fences with QR and form the strongest North America-Middle East partnership to date. AA could use some cash right about now, maybe they will change their minds about QR investing in AA. It would give them a new and desperately needed advantage over Delta.
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StudiodeKadent
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:21 pm

Oneworld is hardly some innocent, fragile flower going down the tubes.

BA and Qantas are hardly floundering. Finnair is going quite nicely from what I've heard. JAL aren't in a bad state any more. Cathay is still a very good airline even though its home is suffering, but that's because of political problems in Hong Kong rather than a problem with the airline itself per se. AA is still profitable, even if it is the least profitable of the US Big Three right now and probably the least well-regarded.

AA also has very well-connected hubs for Latin-America service even if LATAM is no longer in Oneworld: LAX, DFW and MIA.

Not to mention, SkyTeam doesn't seem to be in a good place given Delta is essentially building its own parallel equity alliance and is openly saying that SkyTeam disappoints them.

If AA wants a win, maybe they should improve their on-board product.
 
xiaotung
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:27 pm

That means CZ, no doubt about it.
 
IAHWorldflyer
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:35 pm

As Reply #2 says, OneWorld is just fine. BA, Qantas, JAL, Cathay are all good, strong airlines. AA is weak in North America domestically because they fail to offer a compelling travel experience for the consumer. Yes, Delta's and United's planes are packed with seats too, but AA has a perception of having tight seating, even though it's about the same. Delta has great customer service, United finally seems to be putting it's bad days behind and is building a great route network, and WN has a loyal following with a perception of friendliness, and few fees.
AA leadership needs to rebuild their brand, and give people in the US a reason to choose AA first when they want to travel.
 
DoctorVenkman
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:38 pm

AA flies to essentially every major city in Latin America. Why would they need a partner alliance? Is there really that much demand from the USA to tier 2 South American cities?
 
YouGeeElWhy
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:40 pm

All of this is good for the consumer. It will force AA to keep competing in SA. It will also force AA to open up some routes to secondary/tertiary cities in SA and that A321XLR order is just the right thing.

Maybe this will force AA to work closer with QR. :spin:

LATAM leaving Oneworld certainly stings QF the most, but maybe they can work something out with LATAM directly.

xiaotung wrote:
That means CZ, no doubt about it.
We can only hope.
 
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American 767
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:53 pm

With American and Iberia covering most cities of Central and South America already, both being two major players in that part of the world, I don't think that adding a South American partner to the alliance would make a lot of difference.
Ben Soriano
 
patrickjp93
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:00 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
As Reply #2 says, OneWorld is just fine. BA, Qantas, JAL, Cathay are all good, strong airlines. AA is weak in North America domestically because they fail to offer a compelling travel experience for the consumer. Yes, Delta's and United's planes are packed with seats too, but AA has a perception of having tight seating, even though it's about the same. Delta has great customer service, United finally seems to be putting it's bad days behind and is building a great route network, and WN has a loyal following with a perception of friendliness, and few fees.
AA leadership needs to rebuild their brand, and give people in the US a reason to choose AA first when they want to travel.


The onboard AA product is fine. It's their nasty delays from inattentive staff (not reporting cargo hold damage when it happens, as happened at LAX on Aug. 10th for the next morning's Charlotte flight) and their apathetic customer service that really turn people off. Oh, and most of their airports other than JFK and DFW are 3rd world. Over an hour to get through customs and get luggage as the first flight off boarded that morning. BNE it's 25 minutes. SIN? 17 is my personal record, and it's supposed to be under 10 once Terminal 5 opens.

If it hadn't been for the 3 hops it would have taken to get me from LAX to ORF by Southwest, I'd have flown them instead of AA to CLT then ORF.
 
patrickjp93
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:01 pm

American 767 wrote:
With American and Iberia covering most cities of Central and South America already, both being two major players in that part of the world, I don't think that adding a South American partner to the alliance would make a lot of difference.


It's still probably good to get a partner in Chile or Brazil, if for no other reason than SA is very sparse and direct flights all the way down to Argentina from Spain or JFK are, um, exorbitant...

I don't know the load factors on JFK and ORD to Buenos Aires, but I can't imagine at their prices that they're doing so hot...
 
maps4ltd
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:37 pm

Royal Air Maroc, anyone?
Next flights:
March 14: Delta Air Lines DL1375, STL-SLC, Airbus A220-300
March 20: Southwest Airlines WN5412, SLC-STL, Boeing 737-700
 
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chepos
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:53 pm

patrickjp93 wrote:
American 767 wrote:
With American and Iberia covering most cities of Central and South America already, both being two major players in that part of the world, I don't think that adding a South American partner to the alliance would make a lot of difference.


It's still probably good to get a partner in Chile or Brazil, if for no other reason than SA is very sparse and direct flights all the way down to Argentina from Spain or JFK are, um, exorbitant...

I don't know the load factors on JFK and ORD to Buenos Aires, but I can't imagine at their prices that they're doing so hot...


AA (nor UA) fly ORD-EZE. nonstop.


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gen2stew
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:02 pm

How many more blunders and failures will the B.O.D. tolerate before removing team Tempe?
I don't know why blessings wear disguises. If I were a blessing, I'd run around nude!
 
patrickjp93
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:02 pm

chepos wrote:
patrickjp93 wrote:
American 767 wrote:
With American and Iberia covering most cities of Central and South America already, both being two major players in that part of the world, I don't think that adding a South American partner to the alliance would make a lot of difference.


It's still probably good to get a partner in Chile or Brazil, if for no other reason than SA is very sparse and direct flights all the way down to Argentina from Spain or JFK are, um, exorbitant...

I don't know the load factors on JFK and ORD to Buenos Aires, but I can't imagine at their prices that they're doing so hot...


AA (nor UA) fly ORD-EZE. nonstop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hmm, wonder if they used to or if I just transited through DFW/MIA. Either way, can be just 10% cheaper than flying to Australia, which is absurd.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:13 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
As Reply #2 says, OneWorld is just fine. BA, Qantas, JAL, Cathay are all good, strong airlines. AA is weak in North America domestically because they fail to offer a compelling travel experience for the consumer. Yes, Delta's and United's planes are packed with seats too, but AA has a perception of having tight seating, even though it's about the same. Delta has great customer service, United finally seems to be putting it's bad days behind and is building a great route network, and WN has a loyal following with a perception of friendliness, and few fees.
AA leadership needs to rebuild their brand, and give people in the US a reason to choose AA first when they want to travel.


AA most definitely is not weak in North America. That is just a ridiculous statement. What American Airlines needs though is better management, improved relationships between management and labor, and a laser like focus on the customer experience along the lines of what Delta and more recently United has embarked on. Perception is everything. The headline from AA is that it treats customers like a commodity and does not invest in product. It is not entirely true but they need to reverse the narrative and quickly. AA remains a strong player in Latin America, with MIA a prime gateway to the region. It does however need a partner in the region and will likely find one in another carrier but not on the scale of what LATAM could have offered.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:19 pm

To those saying IB and AA are covering Latin America nicely, they are, for their own networks...

But no one flying from Antofagasta to Recife is going to want to connect in Miami or Madrid...
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
jfk777
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:28 pm

The problem LATAM going Delta is they are the only Pan Latin airline group, there is no close second. Other airline groups are strong in their home countries or regionally.
 
B747forever
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:37 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
To those saying IB and AA are covering Latin America nicely, they are, for their own networks...

But no one flying from Antofagasta to Recife is going to want to connect in Miami or Madrid...


This.

I dont understand why people try to brush away the huge blow to OneWorld/AA the loss of LATAM is. Losing access to all the secondary markets in SA is huge and will in one way or another affect all OneWorld carriers.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
chonetsao
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:54 pm

Yes, we need someone who can replace Dougie Parker with the slogan: make American great again!

(Disclaimer: just a casual remark for fun, no political stir up intended. If you could not see any fun side from my post, maybe you should not reply to it.)
 
EBiafore99
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:57 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
To those saying IB and AA are covering Latin America nicely, they are, for their own networks...

But no one flying from Antofagasta to Recife is going to want to connect in Miami or Madrid...


+1. Yes, I think OneWorld has good coverage for those customers who want to go to/come from South America to another continent. However, what the alliance loses is the ability to provide travel within South America for it's customers. IMO, that's a big loss.
 
DoctorVenkman
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:02 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
To those saying IB and AA are covering Latin America nicely, they are, for their own networks...

But no one flying from Antofagasta to Recife is going to want to connect in Miami or Madrid...


Why would someone flying intra-Latin America care about OneWorld Alliance? Why would OneWorld care about them? Flying from Chile to Brasil has nothing to do with AA or BA or CX; the passenger would pick a Latin American airline and fly that the whole way. If they want to fly out of Latin America they have plenty of options to do so using OneWorld.
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:09 pm

B747forever wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
To those saying IB and AA are covering Latin America nicely, they are, for their own networks...

But no one flying from Antofagasta to Recife is going to want to connect in Miami or Madrid...


This.

I dont understand why people try to brush away the huge blow to OneWorld/AA the loss of LATAM is. Losing access to all the secondary markets in SA is huge and will in one way or another affect all OneWorld carriers.

Agree, this is, would I say, a tremendous setback for OneWorld alliance and I'm very disappointed about this. I wonder how this will affect the partnerships between LATAM and OneWorld member airlines (if this really happens). AY just recently signed a codeshare agreement with LATAM. I also wonder whether AY was informed by the representatives of LATAM about the possibility of leaving OW when they signed this codeshare agreement. Of course being not in the same alliance doesn't stop airlines to partner with each other as we know.
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DoctorVenkman
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:17 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
Agree, this is, would I say, a tremendous setback for OneWorld alliance and I'm very disappointed about this. I wonder how this will affect the partnerships between LATAM and OneWorld member airlines (if this really happens). AY just recently signed a codeshare agreement with LATAM. I also wonder whether AY was informed by the representatives of LATAM about the possibility of leaving OW when they signed this codeshare agreement. Of course being not in the same alliance doesn't stop airlines to partner with each other as we know.


Obviously it would be better to have more connections than not, but I'm not convinced that this is a huge setback either. What is the demand for tier-2 Latin American cities from the rest of the world? Is it high yielding? Is there business traffic? I doubt this impacts the bottom line of AA, BA, CX, etc. that much. They're pushing high-yielding business traffic between major cities, not trying to get some family visiting relatives from Recife to Boston.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:26 pm

May I chip in from South America?
Almost everybody I know, in Peru, Colombia and Argentina (excluding here my poor Venezuelan friends, who lack the luxury of flying nowadays, let alone being choosy about choice of airlines) has LATAM as their last choice when flying. Just yesterday a friend told me she considered quitting her job since her employer keeps sending her on LATAM, and not Avianca, on her weekly Letícia-Bogotá- Letícia trips. The exceptions to this may be Chile and Brazil, its original home markets, where LATAM is held closer to heart.
My point is: LATAM is, in many places, far from being "Latin America's favourite airline" but rather its only choice or thereabouts. Personally, I have only had great moments on LATAM, but just wanted to share the sentiment many have.
Also, Antofagasta-Recife on LATAM generates exactly zero revenue or profit for AA, BA, IB et al even today, so their loss is just that - zero - on those flights with LA leaving OneWorld. And absolutely nothing prevents AA (for example) to offer interline fares on, say, ORD-AA-DFW-AA-SCL-LA-MDZ, even after the DL investment. Interline fares, SPAs and other fare collaborations are not limited to or by alliances.
 
BA777FO
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:28 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
To those saying IB and AA are covering Latin America nicely, they are, for their own networks...

But no one flying from Antofagasta to Recife is going to want to connect in Miami or Madrid...


That kind of intra-South American route isn't covered by the joint ventures anyway. It's like saying Latam should be bothered about no longer getting the passenger that wants to go from Sacramento to New Orleans that AA connects through DFW rather than Latam doing it through LIM.

South America -> Europe will still be sown up by IB. There might be a few defectors from OW to ST but very few, if any, of IB, BA or AA's routes to/from South America are dependent upon connections to second tier cities. The bigger dependency is beyond their own hubs, not the other way around.
 
Brickell305
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:34 pm

DoctorVenkman wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
To those saying IB and AA are covering Latin America nicely, they are, for their own networks...

But no one flying from Antofagasta to Recife is going to want to connect in Miami or Madrid...


Why would someone flying intra-Latin America care about OneWorld Alliance? Why would OneWorld care about them? Flying from Chile to Brasil has nothing to do with AA or BA or CX; the passenger would pick a Latin American airline and fly that the whole way. If they want to fly out of Latin America they have plenty of options to do so using OneWorld.


Because the person flying Chile to Brazil today could be the same person flying Chile to New York next month. If said person is One World loyal, it makes them more likely to choose AA for that trip. If not, they may go elsewhere.
 
J343
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:36 pm

This is indeed very disappointing for the oneworld alliance. I've always thought that LATAM (LAN Airlines then) wouldn't leave the alliance being one of the first recruit of the alliance. AY and CX have expanded code share agreement with JJ recently and I wonder how that's going to affect their relationship.

oneworld might have lost LATAM and created a set back in their network but oneworld still has some decent airlines.. for me it will always be about quality. oneworld have some strong member airlines with decent products (AA, BA, CX, AY, QF, JL and QR). Saying that though, it might only be a matter of time until oneworld loses coverage in the Middle East.

Also, in my opinion I think having elite oneworld frequent flyer status offers the best benefits to their customers. With oneworld ruby, you instantly get access to business class check-in counter- something we don't see with the lowest elite status with Star Alliance and SkyTeam. As I said, it's a real shame and loss for oneworld when it comes to coverage but oneworld is still pretty good with some decent airlines. SkyTeam however..
 
Brickell305
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:37 pm

BA777FO wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
To those saying IB and AA are covering Latin America nicely, they are, for their own networks...

But no one flying from Antofagasta to Recife is going to want to connect in Miami or Madrid...


That kind of intra-South American route isn't covered by the joint ventures anyway. It's like saying Latam should be bothered about no longer getting the passenger that wants to go from Sacramento to New Orleans that AA connects through DFW rather than Latam doing it through LIM.

South America -> Europe will still be sown up by IB. There might be a few defectors from OW to ST but very few, if any, of IB, BA or AA's routes to/from South America are dependent upon connections to second tier cities. The bigger dependency is beyond their own hubs, not the other way around.


Again, that's an awful way of looking at it. By leaving OW, LATAM will obviously not lose out on a passenger flying MIA to LAX. But what about when that same MIA based traveler wants to fly to LIM?
 
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chepos
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:44 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
To those saying IB and AA are covering Latin America nicely, they are, for their own networks...

But no one flying from Antofagasta to Recife is going to want to connect in Miami or Madrid...


That kind of intra-South American route isn't covered by the joint ventures anyway. It's like saying Latam should be bothered about no longer getting the passenger that wants to go from Sacramento to New Orleans that AA connects through DFW rather than Latam doing it through LIM.

South America -> Europe will still be sown up by IB. There might be a few defectors from OW to ST but very few, if any, of IB, BA or AA's routes to/from South America are dependent upon connections to second tier cities. The bigger dependency is beyond their own hubs, not the other way around.


Again, that's an awful way of looking at it. By leaving OW, LATAM will obviously not lose out on a passenger flying MIA to LAX. But what about when that same MIA based traveler wants to fly to LIM?


By that same token that MIA based passenger can fly 1 of the 2 daily flights between MIA-LIM on AA. If they want to stick with OW.


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Varsity1
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:47 pm

QR is a toxic partner.

EK would be a great move. I think QR would lose their minds if that happened, plus QR owns part of IAG.
 
Brickell305
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:04 pm

chepos wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
BA777FO wrote:

That kind of intra-South American route isn't covered by the joint ventures anyway. It's like saying Latam should be bothered about no longer getting the passenger that wants to go from Sacramento to New Orleans that AA connects through DFW rather than Latam doing it through LIM.

South America -> Europe will still be sown up by IB. There might be a few defectors from OW to ST but very few, if any, of IB, BA or AA's routes to/from South America are dependent upon connections to second tier cities. The bigger dependency is beyond their own hubs, not the other way around.


Again, that's an awful way of looking at it. By leaving OW, LATAM will obviously not lose out on a passenger flying MIA to LAX. But what about when that same MIA based traveler wants to fly to LIM?


By that same token that MIA based passenger can fly 1 of the 2 daily flights between MIA-LIM on AA. If they want to stick with OW.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's exactly my point. LATAM risks losing passengers based in the US by leaving OW very much in the same way that AA now faces the possibility of losing South American based passengers. It works both ways.
 
B747forever
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:12 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
DoctorVenkman wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
To those saying IB and AA are covering Latin America nicely, they are, for their own networks...

But no one flying from Antofagasta to Recife is going to want to connect in Miami or Madrid...


Why would someone flying intra-Latin America care about OneWorld Alliance? Why would OneWorld care about them? Flying from Chile to Brasil has nothing to do with AA or BA or CX; the passenger would pick a Latin American airline and fly that the whole way. If they want to fly out of Latin America they have plenty of options to do so using OneWorld.


Because the person flying Chile to Brazil today could be the same person flying Chile to New York next month. If said person is One World loyal, it makes them more likely to choose AA for that trip. If not, they may go elsewhere.


This is the main setback of losing LATAM and how it will affect AA/BA/IB. As those high value/big spending fliers and corporate contracts will be with a Skyteam carrier with the switch, they are much less likely to fly Oneworld carriers on international trips outside of SA. Some may think it goes both ways, but I don’t think LATAM will lose that much.

Sure they will lose Oneworld pax in Europe/USA, but those will be replaced with Skyteam/VS/DL/AFKL feed in Europe/USA. So LATAM won’t lose those markets the same way AA/BA/IB will lose access to much of secondary SA markets. To the contrary this is a double win for
LATAM, as they will get access to more feed via Skyteam and those Oneworld pax that will have to keep flying with LATAM to reach secondary cities in SA.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
delimit
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:39 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
chepos wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:

Again, that's an awful way of looking at it. By leaving OW, LATAM will obviously not lose out on a passenger flying MIA to LAX. But what about when that same MIA based traveler wants to fly to LIM?


By that same token that MIA based passenger can fly 1 of the 2 daily flights between MIA-LIM on AA. If they want to stick with OW.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's exactly my point. LATAM risks losing passengers based in the US by leaving OW very much in the same way that AA now faces the possibility of losing South American based passengers. It works both ways.

One of them is replacing one airline with another airline; one of them is not.
 
n917me
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:43 pm

COPA would be interesting..IF..and a big IF they would leave Star.. and I dont see that happening. But it would open up a lot of Central/South American markets. PTY is getting ready to open a beautiful new Terminal 2..so lot of room to expand and PTY is a good central location.
 
Brickell305
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:43 pm

delimit wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
chepos wrote:

By that same token that MIA based passenger can fly 1 of the 2 daily flights between MIA-LIM on AA. If they want to stick with OW.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's exactly my point. LATAM risks losing passengers based in the US by leaving OW very much in the same way that AA now faces the possibility of losing South American based passengers. It works both ways.

One of them is replacing one airline with another airline; one of them is not.

Oh I agree with you. The effect on AA is much worse. My point was basically to show that his argument that AA shouldn’t be concerned with passengers flying within SA and 4M not being concerned with passengers flying domestically in the US was extremely shortsighted.
 
NYCAAer
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:46 pm

gen2stew wrote:
How many more blunders and failures will the B.O.D. tolerate before removing team Tempe?


It boggles the mind. Employees, unhappy. Customers, unhappy. Shareholders, unhappy. Financial analysts aren’t convinced about anything that they’ve done. My favorite quote was from one who said AA is the ugliest house on the block and a fixer-upper. I thought it was a perfect metaphor.
 
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United787
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:43 pm

I think some of OneWorld's problems go back to the beginning. OneWorld snatched up many of the best airlines in their regions, JL, QF, BA, CX and went with a quality over quantity approach. Star Alliance has some great airlines but saw value in quantity. SkyTeam took the leftovers (sorry Atlanta, but it is the truth).

Fast forward and that is now hurting OneWorld:
BA doesn't have the cache it once had and although LHR is still the most important airport in the world, it's restraints are limiting BA.
JL has had lots of problems and has since lost market share to NH and others. Plus Japan and specifically NRT is no longer the primary gateway to Asia from North America.
CX was the king of "China" and although still a great airline has a lot more competition from mainland China.
AA is struggles to compete at home and abroad and relies to heavily on it's partners and their hubs, specifically JL/NRT and BA/LHR.
QF is still the king of Australia
LATAM is the king of South America but now they are gone. MIA alone isn't going to cut it...

I am Chicago based and so we have a choice, UA or AA. Frequent flyers want to know that their hard earned miles will take them somewhere they want to go and from ORD, UA/Star Alliance can offer a lot more destinations and options than AA/OneWorld.
 
DDR
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Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:38 pm

AA will be just fine in South America. AA did fine before LATAM and they will do just fine without them. Look at the AA metal flying to South America vs DL metal. DL will never be able to match, and DL pilots are getting fed up with outsourcing of international flying.
 
dcajet
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Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:01 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
May I chip in from South America?
Almost everybody I know, in Peru, Colombia and Argentina (excluding here my poor Venezuelan friends, who lack the luxury of flying nowadays, let alone being choosy about choice of airlines) has LATAM as their last choice when flying. Just yesterday a friend told me she considered quitting her job since her employer keeps sending her on LATAM, and not Avianca, on her weekly Letícia-Bogotá- Letícia trips. The exceptions to this may be Chile and Brazil, its original home markets, where LATAM is held closer to heart.
My point is: LATAM is, in many places, far from being "Latin America's favourite airline" but rather its only choice or thereabouts. Personally, I have only had great moments on LATAM, but just wanted to share the sentiment many have.


Not that it really matters, but I am not sure I would say that LATAM is the locals' last choice for flying out of Argentina. Up to recently they were the #1 airline in terms of international traffic in/out of the country; the recent cuts in service have propelled Aerolineas back to the top position. They do have a huge FF base in Argentina (it is their #3 market behind Brazil and Chile). Sure, no one expects anything much from LATAM these days, but they are still the region's best airline (and by region I mean the Southern Cone) in terms of network and schedule. Azul, however, takes #1 place for innovation and on board service.

https://datos.anac.gob.ar/estadisticas/ ... 32db43aa15
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 581
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:04 am

One World still owns the world's biggest business centers. London, NY, LA, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Sydney etc...

I'd rather own places like London and Honk Kong than Paris, Frankfurt etc..
 
J343
Posts: 319
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:40 am

Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:11 am

United787 wrote:
I think some of OneWorld's problems go back to the beginning. OneWorld snatched up many of the best airlines in their regions, JL, QF, BA, CX and went with a quality over quantity approach. Star Alliance has some great airlines but saw value in quantity. SkyTeam took the leftovers (sorry Atlanta, but it is the truth).

Fast forward and that is now hurting OneWorld:
BA doesn't have the cache it once had and although LHR is still the most important airport in the world, it's restraints are limiting BA.
JL has had lots of problems and has since lost market share to NH and others. Plus Japan and specifically NRT is no longer the primary gateway to Asia from North America.
CX was the king of "China" and although still a great airline has a lot more competition from mainland China.
AA is struggles to compete at home and abroad and relies to heavily on it's partners and their hubs, specifically JL/NRT and BA/LHR.
QF is still the king of Australia
LATAM is the king of South America but now they are gone. MIA alone isn't going to cut it...

I am Chicago based and so we have a choice, UA or AA. Frequent flyers want to know that their hard earned miles will take them somewhere they want to go and from ORD, UA/Star Alliance can offer a lot more destinations and options than AA/OneWorld.


Agreed. Also it I'd worthy to know that oneworld hubs are located in some of the world's major financial centres (BA-LHR, AA-JFK-ORD-LAX, CX-HKG, JL-TYO, QF-SYD-MEL). oneworld indeed saw value in quality over quantity and I also get the impression that they have always focused more on business traffic and less on leisure.
 
hondah35
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 1:55 pm

Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:22 am

oneworld doesn't need to do anything at the moment. Delta seems to be on some strange quest to build a global machine of an airline at probably exactly the wrong time. We are probably nearing the end of the current business cycle, being closer to the next major recession than the last one. Meanwhile. Delta is tying up billions in airlines like LATAM which is already struggling with the commodities collapse and trade/emerging markets slowdown, which looks certain to become worse. South Korea's exports are collapsing as well at an unprecedented rate. And some of these stakes, such as 20% in LATAM, even for big bad Delta, buys you little more than bagholder status in a Latin American board room.

Long story short---I'm no fan of AA or oneworld, but there is nothing they need to do here except execute their current plan. Delta's quixotic plan is probably headed for failure.
 
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qf2220
Posts: 2028
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:24 am

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
LATAM leaving Oneworld certainly stings QF the most, but maybe they can work something out with LATAM directly.


Not at all - QF and LA will get on post oneworld just fine. They need each other. If AR joins one world they might even reopen EZE.
 
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par13del
Posts: 10490
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:37 am

So how does AA compare in Latin and South America versus LATAM, AA will now have to add a DL proxy to its list of competitors.
 
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chunhimlai
Posts: 642
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:03 am

Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:45 am

Is it a time for a global Qatar Airways?
Qatari American (ex-American)
Qatari African (ex Royal Air Maroc)
Qatari Atlantic (ex BA & Aer Lingus)
Qatari Europa (ex Iberia)
Qatari Indian (ex Malaysian airline)
Qatari Australian (ex Qantas)
Qatari Russian (ex S7)
Qatari China (ex Cathay)
Qatari Pacific (ex Japan Airlines)
Qatari Scandinavian (ex Finnair)
 
DWC
Posts: 607
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:49 pm

Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:03 am

chunhimlai wrote:
Is it a time for a global Qatar Airways?
Qatari American (ex-American)
Qatari African (ex Royal Air Maroc)
Qatari Atlantic (ex BA & Aer Lingus)
Qatari Europa (ex Iberia)
Qatari Indian (ex Malaysian airline)
Qatari Australian (ex Qantas)
Qatari Russian (ex S7)
Qatari China (ex Cathay)
Qatari Pacific (ex Japan Airlines)
Qatari Scandinavian (ex Finnair)

You are terrible at marketing ;)
"OW whatever" looks better, plus some frames already have it written on their fuselage.

Am I delusionnal if I say that's the 3rd or 4th time I see that same post ?
 
SEAflyer97
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 9:10 am

Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:08 am

Deleted
Last edited by SEAflyer97 on Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:08 am

This move between DL and LATAM will just incentivize AA to open up new markets, like Cusco, Iquitos, Belem and perhaps boost the northeastern coast of Brazil. I could also see them adding LAX-LIM. I think they will be fine in South America. However Avianca might not be so happy DL is cozying up to LATAM. Maybe they will jump to oneworld?

The biggest win oneworld needs is a chance in management at AA, IMHO
 
SEAflyer97
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 9:10 am

Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:09 am

LATAM just said today they will continue their relationship with all OW carriers except AA... I guess they don't really want to exit OW but the DL JV forced them to.
 
OB1504
Posts: 4000
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:11 am

SEAflyer97 wrote:
LATAM just said today they will continue their relationship with all OW carriers except AA... I guess they don't really want to exit OW but the DL JV forced them to.


Are they immediately going for a JV? I thought it was just an ownership stake for now.
 
StudiodeKadent
Posts: 442
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:43 am

Re: AA/oneworld Needs a Win

Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:17 am

Detroit313 wrote:
One World still owns the world's biggest business centers. London, NY, LA, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Sydney etc...

I'd rather own places like London and Honk Kong than Paris, Frankfurt etc..


Partially correct. London is dominated by OneWorld although Virgin Atlantic have proposed to challenge that. NY and LA are both highly competitive markets for all the big three alliances, and you're ignoring the reality that SF is a huge financial capital in its own right as well as a Star fortress hub. HK has big political problems and a structural problem in the form of a time limit before they're fully absorbed into the mainland (2047), and Singapore (Star Alliance fortress hub as well as an immense commercial center in its own right) stands to greatly benefit. Frankfurt is the financial capital of Continental Western Europe, too. Tokyo is of course formidable, but Japan's economy has been growing anemically and there are big structural and demographic woes implicated within this.

So the reality is that there are some challenges for Oneworld. London is getting a third runway and this MIGHT provide a leg-up for Virgin Atlantic to become a bigger competitive threat. Hong Kong has a certain political structural problem I shall not go into detail about for fear of having hate mail sent to me from someone in Beijing, and this contributes to OW's weakness in mainland China. LAX/NYC are not Oneworld fortress hubs, nor is Tokyo (which split between Oneworld and Star). The defection of LATAM means they have no local/regional partner in Latin America.

Honestly, I think Star Alliance is in the best shape right now. Frankfurt is a big financial center, Singapore is as well and its also set to grow in light of the HK situation, San Franciso is the financial capital of the US West Coast as well as the global tech industry, and all of these are Star Alliance fortresses. They have Chinese and African coverage as well as Latin American coverage (via Avianca although that seems to be in dire straights at the moment), and coverage in India. Turkish is a Star member too.

SkyTeam seems to be rapidly disintegrating though. We don't know if LATAM will be joining SkyTeam, and Delta seems to be building its own equity alliance based around the 'less troubled' SkyTeam members plus some independent airlines (the Virgins, for instance).

In all fairness worrying about the health of each alliance is a little bit outdated. Generally speaking most people are in agreement that the alliances aren't as important as they used to be, and few airlines around the world seem to be joining alliances any more (whilst a lot have left). We're getting more bilateral agreements between individual airlines these days.

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