asdf
Posts: 437
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:34 am

trpmb6 wrote:
No way grandfathering is linked to this at all.
People seem to get worked up about the change product rule and "grandfathering". Rest assured that all of the fuselage and wing are reanalyzed for new loads.


If these calculations were carried out then one would have been able to certify properly according to the current state of the art.

let's be clear: the "grandfathering" system should save manufacturers money in the manufacture of aircraft.

the alleged safety of a system that often functions perfectly for decades is used as an excuse.

it's an excuse, nothing more.

with the "grandfathering" technical development in aircraft construction is frozen. as well as security regulations.

everyone knows that a current 737 would have no chance of being certified according to current standards (emergency exits, breakage, etc.)

with the grandfathering the last cent of profit is pressed out of the frame

this is not in the sense of the people flying in these planes. not in the sense of the crew and not in the sense of the passengers.

the current pickle forke problem will probably be a batch problem otherwise it would have been discovered for a long time at the test beds
 
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scbriml
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:37 am

asdf wrote:
zeke wrote:
lightsaber wrote:

But issues are found. Take the A320 wing corrosion issue that ended up effecting 7% of the fleet (hundreds of A320s):
http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/3402061/C ... rbus-wings


Surface corrosion is not comparable to this cracking issue at all. I don’t know of any aircraft type in service that has not had surface corrosion.


Its not compareable
and its completely off topic

but well ... as a moderator you can do that ....


I didn't read it as comparison, just an example of how other types have issues as well.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
asdf
Posts: 437
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:03 am

Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:44 am

Flashy16 wrote:
...but I am having some sleepless nights...... huge ,huge fear of flying that normally I can deal with, but my trust has been a bit damaged with the Allegiant issues and the 737 MAX - I just feel extremely anxious again. The pickle fork issue seems very serious, however rare and I actually can't believe any airline would get in an unchecked NG plane right now, especially an older one. Is there any chance at all that some inspections will have taken place by tomorrow of these old Delta planes if it only takes an hour?! Thank you.


come on man, get a grip
nothing will happen

till yesterday you even didnt knew about
it makes no difference if you know or if you dont know

the probability that your plane is affected and exactly at that flight something unpleasant will happen is so insane low .... you dont have a chance to enjoy that experience .... no way
 
iamlucky13
Posts: 1070
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:51 am

9Patch wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Yeah, I've also been trying to imagine what this part is exactly - if it is describing just a couple of large parts, then I'm guessing it's maybe a vertically placed reinforcement of front and rear spars, with the "fork" running out at the top and bottom flanges outside the fuselage. If there are a bunch of them, then it sounds more like a finger-plate - a horizontal "comb" extending out of the fuselage onto the wing skin, with the "fork" running out to the stringers.


Image

Figure 1. 737 NG pickle forks reinforce the frames attaching to the forward and rear wing spars. The influence of a flexing wing can be seen in the picture. Source: Leeham Co based on a patent drawing.
https://leehamnews.com/2019/09/30/boein ... er-pickle/


Yes, those are pickle forks. There is normally some sort of heavy fitting there, fork shaped or otherwise, located at the front and rear spars, which help distribute the load of the fuselage onto those primary wing structures.

It's hard to make out in the photo halfway down this article, but a rear spar pickle fork fitting is visible, along with larger than typical fasteners in the skin overlapping the top part of it.
https://leehamnews.com/2015/03/12/draft ... to-a321lr/
 
WIederling
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:53 am

scbriml wrote:
asdf wrote:
zeke wrote:

Surface corrosion is not comparable to this cracking issue at all. I don’t know of any aircraft type in service that has not had surface corrosion.


Its not compareable
and its completely off topic

but well ... as a moderator you can do that ....


I didn't read it as comparison, just an example of how other types have issues as well.

Too often these "examples" produce an impression of

A:
"We have a set of infection cases with Marburg virus"
B:
.. "others have infection too, like Influenza"
i.e. unsuitable comparisons.
Murphy is an optimist
 
kalvado
Posts: 2014
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:53 am

WIederling wrote:
scbriml wrote:
asdf wrote:

Its not compareable
and its completely off topic

but well ... as a moderator you can do that ....


I didn't read it as comparison, just an example of how other types have issues as well.

Too often these "examples" produce an impression of

A:
"We have a set of infection cases with Marburg virus"
B:
.. "others have infection too, like Influenza"
i.e. unsuitable comparisons.



Thing is, in-service problems do happen. You may come with the micrometer and try to measure who got a bigger problem - but that is not the point here. There are problems, big and small, with any human-made design. And if you think God is perfect - visit any local hospital to see all kinds of problems with His design.
The positive side of the current situation is that the problem is found before any accidents, it seems the problem is not wide spread, problem is being addressed - safety system is at work and running full steam.
Best of all, problem is being adressed as soon as it is found. Unlike MCAS, Concorde tanks, Space Shuttle o-rings. That is the way it should work, act at first warning..
 
smokeybandit
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:21 am

OK so you found a crack. What's the repair time?
 
kalvado
Posts: 2014
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:38 am

smokeybandit wrote:
OK so you found a crack. What's the repair time?

Time and cost.
As far as I understand, there is no standard repair procedure - and that is a part of a problem. Procedure may need to be developed and certified. It is most likely a complex, lengthly and expensive work. If there is a limited number of planes affected, repairs - design, certification, unique work - may turn out non-economical to begin with.
Or it may be not that bad. We'll see.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:01 pm

With the pickle fork there is a reason, that the part is designed for the lifetime of the frame, it is not designed to be exchanged. I assume it will be an expensive repair. Frames that have a limited lifetime left, I expect to be scrapped.
If they find a considerable number of cracked pickle forks, I assume the lifetime of a 737NG frame has to be reevaluated, down from 90 K cycles.
 
estorilm
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:21 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
With the pickle fork there is a reason, that the part is designed for the lifetime of the frame, it is not designed to be exchanged. I assume it will be an expensive repair. Frames that have a limited lifetime left, I expect to be scrapped.
If they find a considerable number of cracked pickle forks, I assume the lifetime of a 737NG frame has to be reevaluated, down from 90 K cycles.

Would there be any sort of possible legal ramifications for this? Say if multiple operators were unable to use their product to its advertised (and certified) lifespan? Or is this motivation for Boeing to develop SOME kind of fix?

I'm no engineering expert, but from what I gather about that piece... I just can't even remotely comprehend how it could be replaced or strengthened. Even if it was, given the type and age of the aircraft involved, I have no clue how it could be justified financially.
 
queb
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:23 pm

here is the AD
https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... -airplanes

"In September 2019, the FAA received reports of cracking discovered in the left
and right hand side outboard chords of the station (STA) 663.75 frame fittings and
failsafe straps adjacent to the stringer S-18A straps on multiple Boeing Model 737-800
airplanes during a passenger-to-freighter conversion. The affected airplanes had
accumulated between 35,578 and 37,329 total flight cycles. "
 
queb
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:30 pm

queb wrote:
here is the AD
https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... -airplanes

"In September 2019, the FAA received reports of cracking discovered in the left
and right hand side outboard chords of the station (STA) 663.75 frame fittings and
failsafe straps adjacent to the stringer S-18A straps on multiple Boeing Model 737-800
airplanes during a passenger-to-freighter conversion. The affected airplanes had
accumulated between 35,578 and 37,329 total flight cycles. "


So, STA 663 is the front or rear spar?
 
richierich
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:39 pm

Flashy16 wrote:
Thank you so much for such a kind reply! So flying on a 20 yr old (I think all delta 737-800 that old) NG would not bother you even though checks on that age are being done within a week? That is reassuring although I don’t know if I can feel better!

The plane has been at my regional airport for 22 hrs. Any chance the check would happen there or would it always be at a hub (this plane is going to Altanta).


No, I would not hesitate to fly on a 20yo NG in the USA. In fact, I am considering a flight later this month on a DL MD90 (I can tell you, it's older than 20!) as I know they won't be around for more than a couple more years.

As for where they do their checks and mx, I cannot answer that. I would assume at the carrier's maintenance base which may or may not be at one of their large hubs. It probably depends on what needs to happen in order to adequately check the pickle forks, it may mean the plane is out of service for a day or more. These checks will not be done in one go, they will be spread out over days or weeks or perhaps months.
None shall pass!!!!
 
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ssteve
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:59 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
It's hard to make out in the photo halfway down this article, but a rear spar pickle fork fitting is visible, along with larger than typical fasteners in the skin overlapping the top part of it.
https://leehamnews.com/2015/03/12/draft ... to-a321lr/


So they resemble two-tined pickle forks.

The same unease that I feel when I cannot figure out an acronym has abated.
 
WIederling
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:26 pm

queb wrote:
here is the AD
https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... -airplanes

"In September 2019, the FAA received reports of cracking discovered in the left
and right hand side outboard chords of the station (STA) 663.75 frame fittings and
failsafe straps adjacent to the stringer S-18A straps on multiple Boeing Model 737-800
airplanes during a passenger-to-freighter conversion. The affected airplanes had
accumulated between 35,578 and 37,329 total flight cycles. "


Any idea how many have been dispatched for conversion?
Afair P2F conversions have just been started for the 737NG range.
( and looking at the information path it is probably not the 737NG-800BCF?)

"multiple" would indicate it is more than two?

"station (STA) 663.75" is that position from some end in inches?
which end :-?
Murphy is an optimist
 
WayexTDI
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:59 pm

WIederling wrote:
queb wrote:
here is the AD
https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... -airplanes

"In September 2019, the FAA received reports of cracking discovered in the left
and right hand side outboard chords of the station (STA) 663.75 frame fittings and
failsafe straps adjacent to the stringer S-18A straps on multiple Boeing Model 737-800
airplanes during a passenger-to-freighter conversion. The affected airplanes had
accumulated between 35,578 and 37,329 total flight cycles. "


Any idea how many have been dispatched for conversion?
Afair P2F conversions have just been started for the 737NG range.
( and looking at the information path it is probably not the 737NG-800BCF?)

"multiple" would indicate it is more than two?

"station (STA) 663.75" is that position from some end in inches?
which end :-?

737NG-800BCF??? Kinda redundant, every single 737-800 is a 737 NG...

STA 663.75 is a specific position on the 737, and it'll be the same on ALL 737 NG's; given the multiple length of the NG range, it cannot be quantified as 663.75" from somewhere.
 
WIederling
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:25 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
737NG-800BCF??? Kinda redundant, every single 737-800 is a 737 NG...


To reach select persons you can't be redundant enough in your expression :-))
initially I had it written as 737NG BCF but then realized that only the -800 is "touched".
Murphy is an optimist
 
yeelep
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:55 pm

queb wrote:
So, STA 663 is the front or rear spar?


The rear spar.
 
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ssteve
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:05 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
With the pickle fork there is a reason, that the part is designed for the lifetime of the frame, it is not designed to be exchanged. I assume it will be an expensive repair. Frames that have a limited lifetime left, I expect to be scrapped.
If they find a considerable number of cracked pickle forks, I assume the lifetime of a 737NG frame has to be reevaluated, down from 90 K cycles.


They're cheap P2F stock.... sounds like these parts are accessible as part of that process. The 767 Directive estimated repairs would cost well under 6 figures.... not sure if that includes labor hours already expected as part of a P2F conversion, or labor hours expected as part of a heavy check.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... -airplanes

I wonder if P2F conversions are how the 767 issue was discovered as well?
 
djm18
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:54 pm

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ru-461232/

The order requires airlines, within seven days of 3 October, to inspect aircraft that have accumulated more than 30,000 flight cycles. Aircraft that have logged between 22,600 and 29,999 cycles must be inspected within 1,000 additional cycles, the order says.

Airlines must report their inspection results to the FAA.

Delta Air Lines, which operates some 220 737NGs, says it is "working closely with Boeing and the FAA after they informed 737 operators about additional inspection work on certain 737NG aircraft models".

"No structural fatigue has been observed on any of our 737 aircraft in the subject area in the fuselage section behind the wing specified by Boeing and the FAA," Delta adds.

American Airlines, which operates some 300 737NGs, says none of its aircraft will need inspections within seven days. The carrier anticipates 80 aircraft will need inspections within eight months, but it anticipates no operational impact.

Other US 737NG operators Southwest Airlines and United Airlines did not respond immediately to a request for comment.
 
AirBoat
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:40 pm

The fuselage also flexes by bending downwards, as it cantilevers forwards and backwards.
See the Hawaii 737 that had part of the forward roof break off in mid flight. This was found out to be high cycles on aircraft parked in salt air
So a few hard landings will work the pickle forks in the fore aft direction, where the wing bending works in the left - right direction.
there are 2 possibilities: material defects or overstress.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:07 pm

lightsaber wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Flashy16 wrote:
So I did some research on my own with what I could find online and Delta appears to have relatively ancient 737-800s. I haven't switched to the CRJ, but I am having some sleepless nights...... huge ,huge fear of flying that normally I can deal with, but my trust has been a bit damaged with the Allegiant issues and the 737 MAX - I just feel extremely anxious again. The pickle fork issue seems very serious, however rare and I actually can't believe any airline would get in an unchecked NG plane right now, especially an older one. Is there any chance at all that some inspections will have taken place by tomorrow of these old Delta planes if it only takes an hour?! Thank you.


Get a grip. The frames are getting checked. Frames over 33,500 cycles in the week and frames above some 22,000 cycles during the year. We will not see a crash because of this problem.

Do you have a link to the AD?

Late edit:. AD to be issued today!

Leeham has 22,600 FC and within a week for 32,000 FC.

https://leehamnews.com/2019/09/30/boein ... er-pickle/

I just found India requires at 26,000 FC.

https://www.asianage.com/amp/india/all- ... racks.html

I posted a prior link from another source noting, for India, 26,000 FC.

4 Pickle forks per aircraft.

Lightsaber


Have any idea how many AS/AA/DL/UA/WN aircraft might have hit those cycles? Worldwide fleet?
 
sodbuster
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:17 pm

You will be hearing they have found -900 cracks as well.
 
WkndWanderer
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:48 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

Get a grip. The frames are getting checked. Frames over 33,500 cycles in the week and frames above some 22,000 cycles during the year. We will not see a crash because of this problem.

Do you have a link to the AD?

Late edit:. AD to be issued today!

Leeham has 22,600 FC and within a week for 32,000 FC.

https://leehamnews.com/2019/09/30/boein ... er-pickle/

I just found India requires at 26,000 FC.

https://www.asianage.com/amp/india/all- ... racks.html

I posted a prior link from another source noting, for India, 26,000 FC.

4 Pickle forks per aircraft.

Lightsaber


Have any idea how many AS/AA/DL/UA/WN aircraft might have hit those cycles? Worldwide fleet?


Reuters says there are 165 that need inspections within 7 days (30,000 cycles+). There are statements in the article from AA and UA both saying they have no aircraft that fall into that category, and that each airline has about 80 in the 22-29K range that will need to be inspected in the next 1000 cycles. WN's statement says they have already started the inspections, which could indicate they have 30K+ frames that need the inspection within 7 days, but the article doesn't say definitively.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1WH1JR
 
iamlucky13
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:15 am

ssteve wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
It's hard to make out in the photo halfway down this article, but a rear spar pickle fork fitting is visible, along with larger than typical fasteners in the skin overlapping the top part of it.
https://leehamnews.com/2015/03/12/draft ... to-a321lr/


So they resemble two-tined pickle forks.

The same unease that I feel when I cannot figure out an acronym has abated.


Fortunately, airliners.net members seldom use acronyms without defining them the first time they appear in a context, right? ;)
 
WIederling
Posts: 8888
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:51 am

asdf wrote:
with the "grandfathering" technical development in aircraft construction is frozen. as well as security regulations.


IMU mental gyrations to get around certification items
and an effective translation of acquired knowledge and current requirements into a new clean design
are mutually exclusive.

Look at the range of superanuated design that get accesorized to no end
and the failures in creating something new ( lightsaber brought up some GA cases
that appear unable to certify something new.)
pronounced lack of abstraction capabilities imho.
Murphy is an optimist
 
9Patch
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:27 am

asdf wrote:

If these calculations were carried out then one would have been able to certify properly according to the current state of the art.

let's be clear: the "grandfathering" system should save manufacturers money in the manufacture of aircraft.

the alleged safety of a system that often functions perfectly for decades is used as an excuse.

it's an excuse, nothing more.

with the "grandfathering" technical development in aircraft construction is frozen. as well as security regulations.

everyone knows that a current 737 would have no chance of being certified according to current standards (emergency exits, breakage, etc.)

with the grandfathering the last cent of profit is pressed out of the frame

this is not in the sense of the people flying in these planes. not in the sense of the crew and not in the sense of the passengers.

the current pickle forke problem will probably be a batch problem otherwise it would have been discovered for a long time at the test beds


Emergency exits?

Are you saying the current 737 NG and MAX couldn't pass an evacuation test?

Breakage?

Breakage of what?
 
WIederling
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Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:33 pm

9Patch wrote:
asdf wrote:

If these calculations were carried out then one would have been able to certify properly according to the current state of the art.

let's be clear: the "grandfathering" system should save manufacturers money in the manufacture of aircraft.

the alleged safety of a system that often functions perfectly for decades is used as an excuse.

it's an excuse, nothing more.

with the "grandfathering" technical development in aircraft construction is frozen. as well as security regulations.

everyone knows that a current 737 would have no chance of being certified according to current standards (emergency exits, breakage, etc.)

with the grandfathering the last cent of profit is pressed out of the frame

this is not in the sense of the people flying in these planes. not in the sense of the crew and not in the sense of the passengers.

the current pickle forke problem will probably be a batch problem otherwise it would have been discovered for a long time at the test beds


Emergency exits?

Are you saying the current 737 NG and MAX couldn't pass an evacuation test?

Breakage?

Breakage of what?

9g fuselage vs current ?14g? today only seating gs are current.
different (lower) take off obstacle clearance requirements.(reason for lower thrust. meeting current certs demands larger engines)
no idea if "no slides for overwing exits" evacuation would still be acceptable.
.. and it would instantly be voided by longer gear legs.
( things change: see 747 nose seats. not available for a new design.)

A 737 beefed up to the requirements that the A320 meets would make it uncompetitive.
( change in FAA requirements was well timed : after project start, before EIS :-() )
That grandfathering is not done for fun and upraiding A.net posters.
Murphy is an optimist
 
asdf
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:49 pm

9Patch wrote:
Emergency exits?
Are you saying the current 737 NG and MAX couldn't pass an evacuation test?


if you would certify a new plane you could not use those overwing exits and let the pax jump down from the wing about 5 feet ...
 
9Patch
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:25 pm

asdf wrote:
9Patch wrote:
Emergency exits?
Are you saying the current 737 NG and MAX couldn't pass an evacuation test?


if you would certify a new plane you could not use those overwing exits and let the pax jump down from the wing about 5 feet ...


Don't A320s have overwing exits? How do the pax get down from the wing?

You never explained what you mean by 'breakage'.
 
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AECM
Posts: 228
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:28 pm

The A320 overwing exists have slides while the B737 don't, on the Airbus you slide to the ground and on the Boeing you jump to the ground
 
Magnolia
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:10 pm

Has anyone been able to deduce the regs of the planes already found to have issues?
 
Planetalk
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:15 pm

9Patch wrote:
asdf wrote:

If these calculations were carried out then one would have been able to certify properly according to the current state of the art.

let's be clear: the "grandfathering" system should save manufacturers money in the manufacture of aircraft.

the alleged safety of a system that often functions perfectly for decades is used as an excuse.

it's an excuse, nothing more.

with the "grandfathering" technical development in aircraft construction is frozen. as well as security regulations.

everyone knows that a current 737 would have no chance of being certified according to current standards (emergency exits, breakage, etc.)

with the grandfathering the last cent of profit is pressed out of the frame

this is not in the sense of the people flying in these planes. not in the sense of the crew and not in the sense of the passengers.

the current pickle forke problem will probably be a batch problem otherwise it would have been discovered for a long time at the test beds


Emergency exits?

Are you saying the current 737 NG and MAX couldn't pass an evacuation test?

Breakage?

Breakage of what?


No they wouldn't due to the lack of slides on the wings. That's one area I really don't understand how grandfathering could be allowed really, it's perfectly obvious there are going to be considerable problems for elderly/young/reduced mobility people evacuating a 737 on the wings, and likely more and worse injuries. It's not like evacuations are especially rare. Some grandfathering makes sense where the likelihood of an actual consequence is infinitesimally. small. This to me is taking it too far when its fairly inevitable someone will get hurt because of it.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:17 pm

asdf wrote:
9Patch wrote:
Emergency exits?
Are you saying the current 737 NG and MAX couldn't pass an evacuation test?


if you would certify a new plane you could not use those overwing exits and let the pax jump down from the wing about 5 feet ...


False. The five-foot "jump" was and is certifiable. On the A320 (and widebodies with overwing exits), it's a significantly greater vertical distance so they need slides. The E90 - conceived in the 90s and first certified September 2, 2005 - lacks slides on its overwing exits. This has zero to do with grandfathering.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
indcwby
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:18 pm

A319, A320, A330, A340, B717, B727, B737, B747, B757, B767, B777, CRJ7, DC10, MD88, MD11, E145, E175
"Always remember that you fly an airplane with your head, not your hands."
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1226
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:34 pm

9Patch wrote:
asdf wrote:
9Patch wrote:
Emergency exits?
Are you saying the current 737 NG and MAX couldn't pass an evacuation test?


if you would certify a new plane you could not use those overwing exits and let the pax jump down from the wing about 5 feet ...


Don't A320s have overwing exits? How do the pax get down from the wing?

You never explained what you mean by 'breakage'.

Yes they do; and slides.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:13 pm

sodbuster wrote:
You will be hearing they have found -900 cracks as well.


As has already been reported the -900 is a different design.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2014
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:17 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
sodbuster wrote:
You will be hearing they have found -900 cracks as well.


As has already been reported the -900 is a different design.


Call FAA right now! THey are still in the dark as
The FAA is adopting a new airworthiness directive (AD) for all The Boeing Company Model 737-600, -700, -700C, -800, -900, and -900ER series airplanes.
 
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trpmb6
Posts: 2720
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:25 pm

kalvado wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
sodbuster wrote:
You will be hearing they have found -900 cracks as well.


As has already been reported the -900 is a different design.


Call FAA right now! THey are still in the dark as
The FAA is adopting a new airworthiness directive (AD) for all The Boeing Company Model 737-600, -700, -700C, -800, -900, and -900ER series airplanes.


Nothing about your quote changes my statement.
 
sodbuster
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:08 pm

Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:36 pm

I'm not trying to start an argument but all 737NG's have the body station 663 frame (pickle fork). The design is the same for all NG variants which is why the AD covers all these models. There are different configurations but those differences are for strengthening. You will be seeing findings on all models.
 
727Man
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:54 am

Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:20 am

trpmb6 wrote:
sodbuster wrote:
You will be hearing they have found -900 cracks as well.


As has already been reported the -900 is a different design.


Two -900's and two -700's so far have had cracks found.
 
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SEPilot
Posts: 5456
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:02 am

Flashy16 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Flashy16 wrote:
So I did some research on my own with what I could find online and Delta appears to have relatively ancient 737-800s. I haven't switched to the CRJ, but I am having some sleepless nights...... huge ,huge fear of flying that normally I can deal with, but my trust has been a bit damaged with the Allegiant issues and the 737 MAX - I just feel extremely anxious again. The pickle fork issue seems very serious, however rare and I actually can't believe any airline would get in an unchecked NG plane right now, especially an older one. Is there any chance at all that some inspections will have taken place by tomorrow of these old Delta planes if it only takes an hour?! Thank you.


Get a grip. The frames are getting checked. Frames over 33,500 cycles in the week and frames above some 22,000 cycles during the year. We will not see a crash because of this problem.



Thank you so much! It's relieving to hear that checks are within the week. Wish my flight wasn't tomorrow, but I guess there is a chance it will have been checked. Do you think the articles have been dramatic about the seriousness of the crack location - is there truly any sort of real chance a wing will just "fall off?"

My luck has not been great with flying compared to most. Have lost many family, friends and neighbors (including babysitting for the children at the time their mother was killed) in commercial and private flights. My cousin even walked into a propeller! I don't get any comfort from statistics and this sort of issue on my exact plane is very nerve wracking to me.

Don’t confuse flying on airlines with general aviation. General aviation (specifically privately flown propeller aircraft) is second only to motorcycles as the most dangerous way to travel. Flying on a scheduled airliner is by far the safest, including walking. And I am as my username implies a private pilot.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3935
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:11 am

zkojq wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
SEAflyer97 wrote:

If the plane has 6 flight cycles a day and operates 360 days a year, 90k cycles gives you 41.6 years of lifespan.


Yes, and if the plane has 6 flight cycles a day and operates 360 days a year, 35 K cycles gives 16.2 years. So there could be quite a few 737NG with this issue.


Most 737s aren't going to operate 360 days a year. Even so, if a select few 737s have to be retired or have some extra heavy maintenance checks at 35k cycles, it's not really a big deal. In the current age of low interest rates and cheap credit, plenty of 737NGs are being retired at that age already.

the inspection can be ccomplished by removing the fairing panels and eddy 'current inspections there is not some fantastic problem unfolding here,,
 
Jacob2877
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:04 pm

Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:55 am

727Man wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
sodbuster wrote:
You will be hearing they have found -900 cracks as well.


As has already been reported the -900 is a different design.


Two -900's and two -700's so far have had cracks found.


Not what I’ve read. I read it was 3 737-800
 
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CALTECH
Posts: 3270
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 4:21 am

Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:30 pm

United has some older 737NGs....

' On Wednesday, the FAA announced it is requiring airlines that operate Boeing 737 Next Generation (NG) aircraft to inspect these older aircraft for structural cracks.

Boeing 737 NGs with more than 30,000 cycles must be inspected within seven days, while planes between 22,600 and 29,999 cycles must be inspected over the next 1,000 cycles of the aircraft.

None of the Boeing 737 NG aircraft in United's fleet have more than 30,000 cycles, so the seven-day inspection requirement does not impact United.

Roughly 80 of United's 737NG aircraft fall between 22,600 and 29,999 cycles, and all of those aircraft will be inspected within the required timeframe.

These inspections will not have any impact on United's operation. Safety remains United's top priority and United will continue to work closely with Boeing and the FAA with the inspection requirements for United's 737 NG aircraft. '
The gun is a precious Symbol of Freedom
Criminals are the deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence of tyrants who disarm their citizens
 
BigWNFan
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:24 am

Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:41 pm

Too bad they have to remove the wings to perform the inspection.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8508
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:54 pm

BigWNFan wrote:
Too bad they have to remove the wings to perform the inspection.



only the wing fairings
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 18131
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:40 am

Any links on how many airframes had issues found? After 3,... Crickets.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
LGeneReese
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:36 am

Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:08 am

mjoelnir wrote:
BigWNFan wrote:
Too bad they have to remove the wings to perform the inspection.



only the wing fairings

I’ve read it can be done with a Borescope from the wheel well..
 
minilinde
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:16 am

Re: 737NG Pickle fork issue

Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:29 am

At least 2 SK 737's have been found with "fractured" pickle forks. LN-RPK (737-700) is one of these, with approximately 37.700 flight cycles and 34.600 hours. This frame was scheduled to be retired/scraped in beginning of november any way

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