SCQ83
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Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:51 pm

Norwegian will close its short-haul MAD base in January 2020.

ARN and PMI are zeroed-out since October 26 (end of summer season), and CPH, KEF, LPA, TFN after the first week of January. In addition, Norwegian flies seasonally to CTA and DBV which will also be cut by the end of the season.

The only remaining short-haul destinations will be LGW and OSL.

https://www.lavanguardia.com/economia/2 ... juste.html

Durante la temporada de invierno, la aerolínea dejará de operar las rutas entre el aeropuerto Adolfo Suárez Madrid-Barajas con Estocolmo y Palma de Mallorca, que cesarán su actividad el 27 de octubre, y Copenhague, Reikiavik, Tenerife Sur y Gran Canaria, que finalizarán el 8 de enero.
 
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Aisak
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:39 pm

Wow... I expected someone would capitalize the gap left by Thomas Cook, Ryanair bases and Norwegian bases at the Canaries, but I certainly didn’t see it being Norwegian doing a U turn.

I expected Vueling to shift some production down there so some more European bases (CDG/ORY) could be transferred to the LEVEL brand but now it seems harder.

Norwegian was announced to be moving from T2/T1 to T4 before summer but it never came to fruition. Norwegian setup in MAD was far from ideal... huge checkin area at the northern side of T2 public area, when most passengers had to walk all the way south to the non-Schengen side of T1. I guess if they’ll continue like that now...
 
Kikko19
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:54 pm

Aisak wrote:
Wow... I expected someone would capitalize the gap left by Thomas Cook, Ryanair bases and Norwegian bases at the Canaries, but I certainly didn’t see it being Norwegian doing a U turn.

I expected Vueling to shift some production down there so some more European bases (CDG/ORY) could be transferred to the LEVEL brand but now it seems harder.

Norwegian was announced to be moving from T2/T1 to T4 before summer but it never came to fruition. Norwegian setup in MAD was far from ideal... huge checkin area at the northern side of T2 public area, when most passengers had to walk all the way south to the non-Schengen side of T1. I guess if they’ll continue like that now...

Yeah, incredibile! Maybe it's too late for them as well about canary traffic. I guess Fr will celebrate!
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:03 pm

So OSL + LGW and JFK,LAX and BOS for long haul?

I'm interested to see if they'll increase the flights a day between MAD and OSL/LGW.
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:09 pm

Aisak wrote:
but I certainly didn’t see it being Norwegian doing a U turn.


They need to in order to avoid bankruptcy. They've already canceled a number of routes that didn't touch their hubs, now they're closing their minor hubs too. It's back to basics at Norwegian. A stronger concentration on a lower number of hubs.

I guess with the already low fares in Madrid there was no money for them to be made there. In that case, it's better to shift capacity to other hubs that are more profitable.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:11 pm

lesfalls wrote:
So OSL + LGW and JFK,LAX and BOS for long haul?

I'm interested to see if they'll increase the flights a day between MAD and OSL/LGW.


More likely they'll cancel their long haul operations out of Madrid as well, funneling that traffic through Gatwick.
 
SIVB
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:16 pm

Aisak wrote:
Wow... I expected someone would capitalize the gap left by Thomas Cook, Ryanair bases and Norwegian bases at the Canaries, but I certainly didn’t see it being Norwegian doing a U turn.

I expected Vueling to shift some production down there so some more European bases (CDG/ORY) could be transferred to the LEVEL brand but now it seems harder.

Norwegian was announced to be moving from T2/T1 to T4 before summer but it never came to fruition. Norwegian setup in MAD was far from ideal... huge checkin area at the northern side of T2 public area, when most passengers had to walk all the way south to the non-Schengen side of T1. I guess if they’ll continue like that now...


Vueling will not grow in Madrid in the foreseeable future, the strategy is that MAD belongs to IB, and BCN to VY. It is limited actually because of “scope clauses” in the Iberia’s pilot agreement, that forbid using more than 5% of IB code in VY flights but only from Madrid, in BCN they use IB code in all flights.

I think Iberia, Air Europa and Ryanair will be the winners of Norwegian retirement in Madrid.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:23 pm

Going to start a battle here, but this is truly asked in the spirit of "really wanting to know how much we can know based on the facts".

What percent of this decision is based on the MAX grounding, and what percent is based on all other factors? I truly don't know the details of how we got to this point, and I would like to know how much the grounding has affected Norwegian as a company on the whole.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:31 pm

SIVB wrote:
I think Iberia, Air Europa and Ryanair will be the winners of Norwegian retirement in Madrid.


Ryanair is dropping 7 routes this winter from MAD: Bratislava, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Nuremberg, Ouarzazate, Vilnius and Wroclaw. And reducing LPA/TFS/ACE.

There is probably too much competition in some secondary routes.

Maybe it would be a good time for Wizz Air to considering opening a base in MAD.
 
konrad
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:44 pm

How many planes did they have in MAD and where do you think they'll go? FR @MAD must be celebrating.
 
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Aisak
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:44 pm

SIVB wrote:
Vueling will not grow in Madrid in the foreseeable future, the strategy is that MAD belongs to IB, and BCN to VY. It is limited actually because of “scope clauses” in the Iberia’s pilot agreement, that forbid using more than 5% of IB code in VY flights but only from Madrid, in BCN they use IB code in all flights.


I was not talking about MAD but the Canaries when talking about Vueling filling the gap. I don’t think they have any base down there.

And about Vueling in MAD, I’m one of those thinking that they should not have flights at MAD. Co-operating the MAD/BCN air shuttle was a mistake in my opinion...
 
EChid
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:44 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Going to start a battle here, but this is truly asked in the spirit of "really wanting to know how much we can know based on the facts".

What percent of this decision is based on the MAX grounding, and what percent is based on all other factors? I truly don't know the details of how we got to this point, and I would like to know how much the grounding has affected Norwegian as a company on the whole.

I think that's a really hard question to answer with certainty, but I expect that the MAX plays a relatively limited role in this. Certainly, the challenges with both the 787 and MAX have globally affected Norwegian, but it's mainly their long-haul operations that have seen the impact. Some simply aren't viable without the economics of the MAX, which is why you've seen them pull back. However, this reduction is about shorthaul ops, and I suspect that is tied more directly to DY's current financial situation, the end of the season, and their decisions to expand too much, too quickly.
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Cointrin330
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:47 pm

MAD-JFK has been rumored to be getting axed.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:48 pm

Heres hoping this is just the next step in their eventual exit from the marketplace.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:54 pm

konrad wrote:
How many planes did they have in MAD and where do you think they'll go? FR @MAD must be celebrating.


Iberia will benefit the most:

ARN: Iberia and Air Europa (seasonal for cruises)
CPH: Iberia Express, Ryanair and Air Europa (seasonal for cruises)
CTA: Ryanair
DBV: Iberia
KEF: Iberia Express (seasonal), Icelandair (seasonal)
LPA: Iberia, Air Europa and Ryanair (FR reducing flights b/c of their LPA base closure)
PMI: Iberia Express, Air Europa and Ryanair
TFN: Iberia Express, Air Europa and Ryanair (FR reducing flights b/c of their LPA base closure)

Iberia flies all those routes except CTA (yet I2 flies seasonal MAD-PMO). Iberia will become the only airline between Madrid and Sweden year-round and will have a monopoly in Dubrovnik (which is up to 3 daily in August).
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:33 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Going to start a battle here, but this is truly asked in the spirit of "really wanting to know how much we can know based on the facts".

What percent of this decision is based on the MAX grounding, and what percent is based on all other factors?


To parse this out of the MAX grounding you'd really need to know yield by route, and how the MAD routes compare to avg Norwegian routes (and better, all other routes). I don't think that can be answered with public info.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:49 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
MAD-JFK has been rumored to be getting axed.


And MAD-BOS was quietly not loaded for S20.
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2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
Kadish
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:33 pm

I guess IB Is celebrating the news n looking ansiouxly for more planes n slots to cover the gap...
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:22 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Heres hoping this is just the next step in their eventual exit from the marketplace.


Just an exit from Madrid as it is now.

Norwegian was too scattered, they were all over the place. Currently they're restructuring, concentrating their operations in chosen hub airports and pulling out of others. That will strengthen their position. Madrid is one of the hubs that didn't make it through the restructuring process.

Expect to see more smaller hubs being closed and capacity moved to the remaining ones, strengthening their position in those.
 
Blerg
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:06 pm

How many planes did they have in Madrid? What will they do with them now? Will they just park them?
 
a350lover
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:51 pm

It is 4 B737 based in Madrid. Honestly, they set up a base there, just pointing at the map and looking at it as a main airport. Same they did with many other places with different luck. Low cost traffic Scandinavia-Madrid is rather limited. All the premium high-yielding customer have choices with OneWorld (IB, I2 and Finnair). Scandis love the Spanish coast. Madrid is fun and has tones of cultural spots to holiday, but that's not among the top options for Scandinavians when they think of Spain. All main D8 routes in Madrid faced strong competence from different players:

CPH: Ryanair and Iberia Express
ARN: Iberia
HEL: Finnair
OSL: Iberia (or Iberia Express in the past).
LPA/TFN/PMI: Ryanair, Air Europa and Iberia, most of them with far more frequencies per day.

Loads on their three long-haul routes are good. Yields, as pretty much everywhere they fly, must be terrible.

Who thinks Norwegian had any chances of success in Madrid? Hard not to see this coming.Of course MAD could have been just a D8 destination as other places in Spain are for them (i.e Bilbao), but never a base.
 
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chepos
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:19 pm

IB and pals will be even happier if Norwegian cuts MAD-LAX, JFK, BOS (which someone up thread said had been canned?)


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VS4ever
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:19 pm

chepos wrote:
IB and pals will be even happier if Norwegian cuts MAD-LAX, JFK, BOS (which someone up thread said had been canned?)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, us in the BOS thread noted that LGW, CDG and FCO had been loaded a while back, but MAD had not and still hasn’t been as of time of writing this comment, this news may partly explain why, but the others were loaded a while ago, so might be a separate issue. Either way, no BOS-MAD as of right now.
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:24 pm

I have to wonder if Air Europa might take advantage, particularly for short-haul destinations. With LATAM likely to switch its Spain partner from IB to UX, the opportunity is there.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:57 pm

Have Air Europa got any aircraft spare or for delivery soon in the 150-200 seat range ? Their Madrid network to non-Spanish cities in Europe is modest at the moment. I suspect that even with Latam moving to Skyteam, we are unlikely to see Air Europa going for a big shorthaul expansion
 
ASA
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:51 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
So OSL + LGW and JFK,LAX and BOS for long haul?

I'm interested to see if they'll increase the flights a day between MAD and OSL/LGW.


More likely they'll cancel their long haul operations out of Madrid as well, funneling that traffic through Gatwick.


I hope they don't do it in the next 3 weeks ... I'm scheduled to fly BOS-MAD soon! :gnasher:
 
PavlovsDog
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:23 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Going to start a battle here, but this is truly asked in the spirit of "really wanting to know how much we can know based on the facts".

What percent of this decision is based on the MAX grounding, and what percent is based on all other factors? I truly don't know the details of how we got to this point, and I would like to know how much the grounding has affected Norwegian as a company on the whole.
I'm guessing the MAX grounding played a very large part. I flew a wet leased 320 last week and it was a horrible product in terms leg-room, amenities and unprofessional crew. If Madrid was an unprofitable base for them this move makes a lot of sense if it allows them to regain control over all of their own operations.
 
flyingbird
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:21 am

Aisak wrote:
Wow... I expected someone would capitalize the gap left by Thomas Cook, Ryanair bases and Norwegian bases at the Canaries, but I certainly didn’t see it being Norwegian doing a U turn.


This closure was actually announced about 2 weeks ago, so before Thomas Cook closure.
 
flyingbird
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:24 am

Blerg wrote:
How many planes did they have in Madrid? What will they do with them now? Will they just park them?


NAX have 18 MAX aircraft parked, because of that they need to wet-lease capacity to maintain schedule. With this closure they will be able to end some expensive wet-lease contracts.
 
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TheLion
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:18 am

SteelChair wrote:
Heres hoping this is just the next step in their eventual exit from the marketplace.


Why come up with such a puerile comment?

Let me surmise...you’re either a troll or you’re an arch capitalist who dislikes upstart airlines and whose idea of “free” markets is a lack of competition, with the result that the majors dominate and fares rise

If you’re gonna post, write something sensible, or don’t write anything at all. You’re welcome :D
 
SCQ83
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:36 am

adamh8297 wrote:
And MAD-BOS was quietly not loaded for S20.


I don't see that flight staying.

Iberian Peninsula-BOS has exploded over the last few years. From only Iberia flying MAD-BOS (at some point even seasonal only), there are now 5 routes: IB and DY on MAD-BOS, Level and DY on BCN-BOS and TAP on LIS-BOS.

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Have Air Europa got any aircraft spare or for delivery soon in the 150-200 seat range ? Their Madrid network to non-Spanish cities in Europe is modest at the moment. I suspect that even with Latam moving to Skyteam, we are unlikely to see Air Europa going for a big shorthaul expansion


The issue with UX is that those European flights are filled with connections and low-of-the-barrel O&D competing with Ryanair, easyJet, etc. Corporate traffic overwhelming prefers Iberia and the local legacy (let's say, MAD-FRA, business traffic will fly Iberia or Lufthansa).

So UX ends up being in a no man's land. Venturing in smaller markets like MAN, BER, etc. competing with Iberia (and maybe some low-cost carrier) is risky. For instance they tried MAD-GVA a couple of years ago and they chopped it (despite only having Iberia, easyJet and Swiss and being a natural market for connections to LatAm).
 
SIVB
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:37 pm

Aisak wrote:
SIVB wrote:
Vueling will not grow in Madrid in the foreseeable future, the strategy is that MAD belongs to IB, and BCN to VY. It is limited actually because of “scope clauses” in the Iberia’s pilot agreement, that forbid using more than 5% of IB code in VY flights but only from Madrid, in BCN they use IB code in all flights.


I was not talking about MAD but the Canaries when talking about Vueling filling the gap. I don’t think they have any base down there.

And about Vueling in MAD, I’m one of those thinking that they should not have flights at MAD. Co-operating the MAD/BCN air shuttle was a mistake in my opinion...


Sorry Aisak, I thought you meant in MAD!

Vueling has bases in TFN and LPA, TFS was a base but it only lasted a couple of years. I don’t know if they can benefit from this, because having a base in the Canaries means early departures back home or late arrivals into the islands, which is not very efficient for tourists.

About VY in MAD, it was a big base (relatively) before the merger with Clickair. They have already left major markets and currently only fly year round to BCN and CDG (IB flies to ORY) and IBZ and MAJ during the summers, which are not big markets for IB. The creation of IB Express definitively put a question mark for VY in Madrid, but time will tell.
 
Eikie
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:40 pm

TheLion wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Heres hoping this is just the next step in their eventual exit from the marketplace.


Why come up with such a puerile comment?

Let me surmise...you’re either a troll or you’re an arch capitalist who dislikes upstart airlines and whose idea of “free” markets is a lack of competition, with the result that the majors dominate and fares rise

If you’re gonna post, write something sensible, or don’t write anything at all. You’re welcome :D

Or somebody who disagrees with the business practices of certain upstart airlines....
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:46 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
And MAD-BOS was quietly not loaded for S20.


I don't see that flight staying.

Iberian Peninsula-BOS has exploded over the last few years. From only Iberia flying MAD-BOS (at some point even seasonal only), there are now 5 routes: IB and DY on MAD-BOS, Level and DY on BCN-BOS and TAP on LIS-BOS.


Here were the Iberian Pennisula flights for S19. DY did not serve BOS-BCN.

IB MAD-BOS
DY MAD-BOS
Level BCN-BOS
TP LIS-BOS
DL LIS-BOS

Also I believe all S4 flights from BOS continue on to LIS or OPO from TER or PDL so its direct service.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
a350lover
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:23 pm

SIVB wrote:
Vueling has bases in TFN and LPA, TFS was a base but it only lasted a couple of years. I don’t know if they can benefit from this, because having a base in the Canaries means early departures back home or late arrivals into the islands, which is not very efficient for tourists.


Vueling tried some say... "leisure UK routes" from its base in TFS a while ago. They flew TFS-BHX and TFS-MAN, both with terribly bad loads. The reason Vueling and I2 are on the islands is to connect to Spain mainland, mainly to BCN/MAD where they fly early departures from both TFN and LPA. Same wih IB Express which currently flies up to 7 flights per day between LPA and MAD. They used to fly TFS-LHR some time ago, but that's it.
 
planesarecool
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:26 pm

Eikie wrote:
TheLion wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Heres hoping this is just the next step in their eventual exit from the marketplace.


Why come up with such a puerile comment?

Let me surmise...you’re either a troll or you’re an arch capitalist who dislikes upstart airlines and whose idea of “free” markets is a lack of competition, with the result that the majors dominate and fares rise

If you’re gonna post, write something sensible, or don’t write anything at all. You’re welcome :D

Or somebody who disagrees with the business practices of certain upstart airlines....



Which business practices are these then, and what affect do they have on your life?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:20 pm

Please can we stick to discussion of Norwegian at MAD on this thread - discussion of Norwegian's business practices should be on a separate thread dedicated to that topic
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:45 pm

Sure looks like a lot of Europe airlines are being government subsidized lately apparently.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
EIBPI
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:15 pm

Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:00 pm

Where is the capacity being moved to?
 
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BasilFawlty
Posts: 920
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:23 am

Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:24 am

Probably nowhere, with again a few NG's leaving the fleet.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
flyingbird
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:21 pm

Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:21 am

[*]
EIBPI wrote:
Where is the capacity being moved to?

Question answered 10-11 posts up
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2524
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:28 am

SteelChair wrote:
Heres hoping this is just the next step in their eventual exit from the marketplace.



But Why?.!.
Why all the hate. Why.
I really don't get it.
This should be an aviation fans forum. Why all the hate against Norwegian. Nobody is forcing people to fly (*OR WORK*) with them.
Why hoping that they go bust, meaning that many people will lose their jobs and the travelling public will have less choice.... I just don't get it.
 
Kikko19
Posts: 632
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:27 am

oldannyboy wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Heres hoping this is just the next step in their eventual exit from the marketplace.



But Why?.!.
Why all the hate. Why.
I really don't get it.
This should be an aviation fans forum. Why all the hate against Norwegian. Nobody is forcing people to fly (*OR WORK*) with them.
Why hoping that they go bust, meaning that many people will lose their jobs and the travelling public will have less choice.... I just don't get it.

especially since if some airline exit the market the prices for the route will go up.
 
armchairceonr1
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:00 am

It's not have to be hate, it's can just be economic. :) They are still in red this year, even they have made many moves to became profitable. They are going to need fresh equity again in beginning of next year, time shows they get it or not.
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1381
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:12 am

oldannyboy wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Heres hoping this is just the next step in their eventual exit from the marketplace.



But Why?.!.
Why all the hate. Why.
I really don't get it.
This should be an aviation fans forum. Why all the hate against Norwegian. Nobody is forcing people to fly (*OR WORK*) with them.
Why hoping that they go bust, meaning that many people will lose their jobs and the travelling public will have less choice.... I just don't get it.


Because they aren't "real." They subvert market realities. To some extent, they are destined to go bust.....their economic model is unsustainable, and in the meantime all the do is hurt the marketplace with their unrealistic economics.
 
Eikie
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:15 pm

Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:26 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Heres hoping this is just the next step in their eventual exit from the marketplace.

Nobody is forcing people to fly (*OR WORK*) with them.

Numbers show not enough people are willing to fly with them, or, at least, not for prices norwegian needs to stay afloat without resorting to begging extended loans and such.

And nobody is forcing people to work for them directly, but they do influence the jobmarket (negatively).
Jobs as a pilot (and in a lesser sense as cabin crew) is not an infinite amount. And while there are shortages in some area's of the world, not all potential pilots are eligible for those jobs, mostly because of the wrong nationality.
Nice to see UA having trouble finding pilots, but Jean-Pierre from Paris will never be one of those. Other factors might be age, education, language, etc.
So norwegian might very well be one of the few, if not only option. Besides by applying unrealistic fares, they influence everyone's aviation job as the competition has to follow not to lose customers.
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1381
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:40 pm

SteelChair wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Heres hoping this is just the next step in their eventual exit from the marketplace.



But Why?.!.
Why all the hate. Why.
I really don't get it.
This should be an aviation fans forum. Why all the hate against Norwegian. Nobody is forcing people to fly (*OR WORK*) with them.
Why hoping that they go bust, meaning that many people will lose their jobs and the travelling public will have less choice.... I just don't get it.


Because they aren't "real." They subvert market realities. To some extent, they are destined to go bust.....their economic model is unsustainable, and in the meantime all the do is hurt the marketplace with their unrealistic economics.


And oh yeah, its not hate. Its just business.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2524
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:02 pm

SteelChair wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:


But Why?.!.
Why all the hate. Why.
I really don't get it.
This should be an aviation fans forum. Why all the hate against Norwegian. Nobody is forcing people to fly (*OR WORK*) with them.
Why hoping that they go bust, meaning that many people will lose their jobs and the travelling public will have less choice.... I just don't get it.


Because they aren't "real." They subvert market realities. To some extent, they are destined to go bust.....their economic model is unsustainable, and in the meantime all the do is hurt the marketplace with their unrealistic economics.


And oh yeah, its not hate. Its just business.


Because instead flying a CRJ for any regional airline dba UA/DL/AA Express for $1500 a month gross, whilst needing food stamps to feed your kids, is REALISTIC wages.
Or maybe you think so because this scam is hidden behind the silver spoon of any of the large un-challengeable US3 majors, and it has become the accepted norm in the US.
Ha Ha. Give me a break.

I say that most of the "haters" here instead care to comment simply because Norwegian has attempted at entering the job market in the US, and has attempted at subverting some of the given assumptions. Otherwise no one would be giving a freakin' toss about their market practices if the "allegedly underpaid" pilots and crews were Thai or Vietnamese....
Be honest guys.
 
leghorn
Posts: 1105
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:09 pm

https://www.hosteltur.com/131656_el-cie ... lotos.html

50 redundancies 100 unpaid leave according to pprune.org poster
 
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Aisak
Posts: 898
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

Re: Norwegian closes MAD base; cancels ARN, CPH, CTA, DBV, KEF, LPA, PMI, TFN.

Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:14 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
So OSL + LGW and JFK,LAX and BOS for long haul?

I'm interested to see if they'll increase the flights a day between MAD and OSL/LGW.


More likely they'll cancel their long haul operations out of Madrid as well, funneling that traffic through Gatwick.


The problem with operating more LGW flights is finding suitable slots to feed Norwegian Air UK longhaul operations there.

Long haul operations are not "out of Madrid" but rather "into Madrid" from other operating bases as the 787s are not MAD-based and there is no crew base at MAD.
These flights tend to operate quite late in the afternoon/evening so I don't know if Norwegian really expected too much feed from the Norwegian Air Shuttle 737 base at MAD anyway....

Let's remember the legal entity closing the MAD base is Norwegian Air International (the Irish one: IATA/ICAO D8/IBK)
The longhaul flights are listed as Norwegian Air Shuttle (IATA/ICAO DY/NAX although problably operated by Norwegian Long Haul.) so not related to the MAD base as it's simply a destination for them

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