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NZ516
Posts: 466
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:49 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
For months there has been a rumour in the FNQ press that the "deal" would result in CNS going year-round. Disappointing that this didn't happen.


Indeed and one of the easier routes to operate all year long. Going back to the beginning the Cairns route started as a 2 per week 767-200 service in 1987. With a continuous year round operation of over 20 years and only recently becoming winter only in the last 5 years. I'm surprised that demand has dropped off or other factors are at play un known to us. It's not for a shortage of 320s keeping it seasonal unlike the DPS route with the 789s needed elsewhere in Summer. Despite the financial assistance from the QLD government. Air NZ will keep it seasonal along with the MCY service. Other leisure destinations similar distance from AKL (5 hours) remain a year round operation eg NOU and PPT. Someone else might be able to shed some light on why it remains seasonal.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1615
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:09 am

Further to the China topic earlier in the week. Here are some interesting stats reported by Blue Swan Daily

Chinese visitors to NZ has doubled from 197,000 in 2012 to 448,000 in 2017, becoming the second largest source market for New Zealand’s booming tourism industry with highest y-o-y growth of 18% since 2012

Image

https://www.facebook.com/TheBlueSwanDai ... 63/?type=3

So like I've said, first and foremost NZ needs to get China right. Secondly or additionally they need to get capitalise on China to South America.

Most of your dislike my pro-NZ view, but this is an area I think they are falling short on but their's a wealth of issues with China.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7535
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:45 am

NZ516 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
For months there has been a rumour in the FNQ press that the "deal" would result in CNS going year-round. Disappointing that this didn't happen.


Indeed and one of the easier routes to operate all year long. Going back to the beginning the Cairns route started as a 2 per week 767-200 service in 1987. With a continuous year round operation of over 20 years and only recently becoming winter only in the last 5 years. I'm surprised that demand has dropped off or other factors are at play un known to us. It's not for a shortage of 320s keeping it seasonal unlike the DPS route with the 789s needed elsewhere in Summer. Despite the financial assistance from the QLD government. Air NZ will keep it seasonal along with the MCY service. Other leisure destinations similar distance from AKL (5 hours) remain a year round operation eg NOU and PPT. Someone else might be able to shed some light on why it remains seasonal.


CNS for years was weekly with either a 763 or 744, just noticed atleast some flights are evening ex AKL with red eyes on the return.

Sure it’s easy to run year round, however demand does significantly drop off over summer given the tropical weather, same with many of the pacific islands, NAN can be 3 daily ex AKL with 2 777s plus 3 weekly WLG/CHC each in the peak NZ winter, while WLG/CHC don’t run in summer and AKL is usually 1 daily albeit mostly 777s, this year I think AKL is only 4-5 weekly wide body and 4-5 weekly A320/321, RAR is similar with 2 daily over winter 7-8 weekly 777/787 in there while summer is 6-7 weekly with this year only 2-3 777 weekly.

Most of the freed up wide body capacity goes to additional SYD/MEL/PER which either use less frequency in winter or more narrow bodies, it’s simply a case really of using aircraft where they make the most money at different times of the year.
 
User avatar
DUDtoDFW
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:28 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:09 am

NZ6 wrote:
Further to the China topic earlier in the week. Here are some interesting stats reported by Blue Swan Daily

Chinese visitors to NZ has doubled from 197,000 in 2012 to 448,000 in 2017, becoming the second largest source market for New Zealand’s booming tourism industry with highest y-o-y growth of 18% since 2012

Image

https://www.facebook.com/TheBlueSwanDai ... 63/?type=3

So like I've said, first and foremost NZ needs to get China right. Secondly or additionally they need to get capitalise on China to South America.

Most of your dislike my pro-NZ view, but this is an area I think they are falling short on but their's a wealth of issues with China.


You know what, I disagree. New Zealand is fundamentally a package holiday destination from China, regardless of the rise of the much-heralded independent Chinese traveller. Business travel is minimal. The typical Chinese tourist will prefer the lower-cost, local-language-speaking, similar-hard-product local carrier every day of the week. The Chinese market more generally is often an oversupplied, low yield battleground in many respects, even for the local airlines. NZ trying to expand in China to serve the tourist market would be in my mind as if Iberia trying to expand to carry British holidaymakers to the Spanish beaches, or Aeromexico doing similar from Cancun, with similar chances of success. In fact NZ probably already earns the majority of the total yield generated by a typical Chinese tourist's trip when it flies them on their AKL-CHC/ZQN legs after they get off their long haul flight.

NZ's service essentially offers Air China a way to serve AKL from PVG without it having to base an extra long haul aircraft at a minor base. But most important I suspect is that NZ offers the outbound New Zealand business and economy traveller a trusted link into China and easy connections to the biggest and most financially important cities.

When I lived in the UK, the cheapest NZ-ticketed option to New Zealand was just about always connecting through PVG with VS, which suggested to me that the service is substantially filled with a lot of NZers and Europeans, and that there were always plenty of free seats. That may have changed the past few years, but with the huge increase in supply from Chinese airlines I doubt it.

As for China - South America, NZ has geography going for it but nothing else. Visa requirements and the presence of aggressive ME3 and ET competition (with larger networks at both ends and lower cost basis) make it a strategic dead end from my perspective. So I disagree with Luxon on his take if he truly believes what he said in the article DavidByrne linked.

NZ should leave its China business as is, as a mix of Air China PVG pax/Euro connections/small NZ point of sale market, tolerate ongoing minor losses and treat it as retaining options for the future depending on how the market changes and grows.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1615
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:28 am

DUDtoDFW wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Further to the China topic earlier in the week. Here are some interesting stats reported by Blue Swan Daily

Chinese visitors to NZ has doubled from 197,000 in 2012 to 448,000 in 2017, becoming the second largest source market for New Zealand’s booming tourism industry with highest y-o-y growth of 18% since 2012

Image

https://www.facebook.com/TheBlueSwanDai ... 63/?type=3

So like I've said, first and foremost NZ needs to get China right. Secondly or additionally they need to get capitalise on China to South America.

Most of your dislike my pro-NZ view, but this is an area I think they are falling short on but their's a wealth of issues with China.


You know what, I disagree. New Zealand is fundamentally a package holiday destination from China, regardless of the rise of the much-heralded independent Chinese traveller. Business travel is minimal. The typical Chinese tourist will prefer the lower-cost, local-language-speaking, similar-hard-product local carrier every day of the week. The Chinese market more generally is often an oversupplied, low yield battleground in many respects, even for the local airlines. NZ trying to expand in China to serve the tourist market would be in my mind as if Iberia trying to expand to carry British holidaymakers to the Spanish beaches, or Aeromexico doing similar from Cancun, with similar chances of success. In fact NZ probably already earns the majority of the total yield generated by a typical Chinese tourist's trip when it flies them on their AKL-CHC/ZQN legs after they get off their long haul flight.

NZ's service essentially offers Air China a way to serve AKL from PVG without it having to base an extra long haul aircraft at a minor base. But most important I suspect is that NZ offers the outbound New Zealand business and economy traveller a trusted link into China and easy connections to the biggest and most financially important cities.

When I lived in the UK, the cheapest NZ-ticketed option to New Zealand was just about always connecting through PVG with VS, which suggested to me that the service is substantially filled with a lot of NZers and Europeans, and that there were always plenty of free seats. That may have changed the past few years, but with the huge increase in supply from Chinese airlines I doubt it.

As for China - South America, NZ has geography going for it but nothing else. Visa requirements and the presence of aggressive ME3 and ET competition (with larger networks at both ends and lower cost basis) make it a strategic dead end from my perspective. So I disagree with Luxon on his take if he truly believes what he said in the article DavidByrne linked.

NZ should leave its China business as is, as a mix of Air China PVG pax/Euro connections/small NZ point of sale market, tolerate ongoing minor losses and treat it as retaining options for the future depending on how the market changes and grows.


Disagree to what?

Are you saying NZ doesn't need to get China right or that China-South America is more important than getting China right on its own?

I'm merely highlighting the share volume and increasing levels of Chinese travellers? 18% year on year growth since 2012 is massive

Are you saying in general, they're low value and not worth the effort for NZ?
 
Whoopeecock
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:35 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:02 pm

PA515 wrote:
LamboAston wrote:
MCX could be moving to Air Chathams - the new registration painted on is in the same location as MCO


ZK-MCX had another test flight off Akaroa yesterday.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-mcx

PA515


Maybe they’ll get the HF upgrade to send them out east to CHT as it’s not looking like they’ll be able to upsize to jets anytime soon.

https://www.facebook.com/17384368761952 ... 43?sfns=mo
 
User avatar
DUDtoDFW
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:28 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:29 pm

NZ6 wrote:
DUDtoDFW wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Further to the China topic earlier in the week. Here are some interesting stats reported by Blue Swan Daily


Image

https://www.facebook.com/TheBlueSwanDai ... 63/?type=3

So like I've said, first and foremost NZ needs to get China right. Secondly or additionally they need to get capitalise on China to South America.

Most of your dislike my pro-NZ view, but this is an area I think they are falling short on but their's a wealth of issues with China.


You know what, I disagree. New Zealand is fundamentally a package holiday destination from China, regardless of the rise of the much-heralded independent Chinese traveller. Business travel is minimal. The typical Chinese tourist will prefer the lower-cost, local-language-speaking, similar-hard-product local carrier every day of the week. The Chinese market more generally is often an oversupplied, low yield battleground in many respects, even for the local airlines. NZ trying to expand in China to serve the tourist market would be in my mind as if Iberia trying to expand to carry British holidaymakers to the Spanish beaches, or Aeromexico doing similar from Cancun, with similar chances of success. In fact NZ probably already earns the majority of the total yield generated by a typical Chinese tourist's trip when it flies them on their AKL-CHC/ZQN legs after they get off their long haul flight.

NZ's service essentially offers Air China a way to serve AKL from PVG without it having to base an extra long haul aircraft at a minor base. But most important I suspect is that NZ offers the outbound New Zealand business and economy traveller a trusted link into China and easy connections to the biggest and most financially important cities.

When I lived in the UK, the cheapest NZ-ticketed option to New Zealand was just about always connecting through PVG with VS, which suggested to me that the service is substantially filled with a lot of NZers and Europeans, and that there were always plenty of free seats. That may have changed the past few years, but with the huge increase in supply from Chinese airlines I doubt it.

As for China - South America, NZ has geography going for it but nothing else. Visa requirements and the presence of aggressive ME3 and ET competition (with larger networks at both ends and lower cost basis) make it a strategic dead end from my perspective. So I disagree with Luxon on his take if he truly believes what he said in the article DavidByrne linked.

NZ should leave its China business as is, as a mix of Air China PVG pax/Euro connections/small NZ point of sale market, tolerate ongoing minor losses and treat it as retaining options for the future depending on how the market changes and grows.


Disagree to what?

Are you saying NZ doesn't need to get China right or that China-South America is more important than getting China right on its own?

I'm merely highlighting the share volume and increasing levels of Chinese travellers? 18% year on year growth since 2012 is massive

Are you saying in general, they're low value and not worth the effort for NZ?


Yes that's exactly what I'm saying - the China tourism market is low value and not worth the effort for NZ. The existing service is the best that can be achieved in the market for now - focus on outbound NZers, independent travelers, and fill up the back with cheap Europe fares.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1615
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:07 pm

DUDtoDFW wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
DUDtoDFW wrote:

You know what, I disagree. New Zealand is fundamentally a package holiday destination from China, regardless of the rise of the much-heralded independent Chinese traveller. Business travel is minimal. The typical Chinese tourist will prefer the lower-cost, local-language-speaking, similar-hard-product local carrier every day of the week. The Chinese market more generally is often an oversupplied, low yield battleground in many respects, even for the local airlines. NZ trying to expand in China to serve the tourist market would be in my mind as if Iberia trying to expand to carry British holidaymakers to the Spanish beaches, or Aeromexico doing similar from Cancun, with similar chances of success. In fact NZ probably already earns the majority of the total yield generated by a typical Chinese tourist's trip when it flies them on their AKL-CHC/ZQN legs after they get off their long haul flight.

NZ's service essentially offers Air China a way to serve AKL from PVG without it having to base an extra long haul aircraft at a minor base. But most important I suspect is that NZ offers the outbound New Zealand business and economy traveller a trusted link into China and easy connections to the biggest and most financially important cities.

When I lived in the UK, the cheapest NZ-ticketed option to New Zealand was just about always connecting through PVG with VS, which suggested to me that the service is substantially filled with a lot of NZers and Europeans, and that there were always plenty of free seats. That may have changed the past few years, but with the huge increase in supply from Chinese airlines I doubt it.

As for China - South America, NZ has geography going for it but nothing else. Visa requirements and the presence of aggressive ME3 and ET competition (with larger networks at both ends and lower cost basis) make it a strategic dead end from my perspective. So I disagree with Luxon on his take if he truly believes what he said in the article DavidByrne linked.

NZ should leave its China business as is, as a mix of Air China PVG pax/Euro connections/small NZ point of sale market, tolerate ongoing minor losses and treat it as retaining options for the future depending on how the market changes and grows.


Disagree to what?

Are you saying NZ doesn't need to get China right or that China-South America is more important than getting China right on its own?

I'm merely highlighting the share volume and increasing levels of Chinese travellers? 18% year on year growth since 2012 is massive

Are you saying in general, they're low value and not worth the effort for NZ?


Yes that's exactly what I'm saying - the China tourism market is low value and not worth the effort for NZ. The existing service is the best that can be achieved in the market for now - focus on outbound NZers, independent travelers, and fill up the back with cheap Europe fares.


I can't understand why, with year on year growth of just under 20%, half a million visitors a year why NZ wouldn't want to have a slice of the pie. I'm not talking about taking over all China operations or anything to that extent.
 
DavidJ08
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:52 am

NZ6 wrote:
I can't understand why, with year on year growth of just under 20%, half a million visitors a year why NZ wouldn't want to have a slice of the pie. I'm not talking about taking over all China operations or anything to that extent.

Sure, the market is there, but that doesn't mean NZ can tap it effectively, as there will always be a great reluctance for the Chinese tourists to actually fly NZ (or any other carrier from an English-speaking country), because of the (either real or perceived) language and cultural barrier. I'm Chinese and even my parents (who speak reasonably-fluent English and live and work in NZ in English-speaking environments) will readily choose a Chinese airline over NZ/QF/KE etc; and when my grandparents (who don't speak much English) used to visit NZ they paid extra to fly on a Chinese airline so they wouldn't have to struggle with language barrier. I think there is a perceived inconvenience associated with flying on a non-Chinese airline - whether it be booking, onboard, or customer service, and therefore a psychological reluctance.

My personal take on it is that the older (and more affluent) Chinese tourists will try their best to stick to Chinese service - fly to New Zealand on a Chinese airline, go on a group tour with Chinese guide and Chinese driver, often stopping at Chinese restaurants as much as possible (when I worked in buses I saw some of the tour itineraries - it was very much a Chinese restaurant for dinner every night). They want to see New Zealand for its scenery, rather than try to engage with the culture, and this is especially true for the South Island; this relates back to the Chinese concept of tourism, which is centred around sightseeing, unlike the young Kiwi's idea of an OE with cultural immersion etc etc. I was reading a Chinese article on tourism psychology to validate this and came across a passage talking about China having a more collectivist culture and there is a strong preference towards traveling as a group for safety as well as to help each other in case of need.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1615
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:12 am

DavidJ08 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
I can't understand why, with year on year growth of just under 20%, half a million visitors a year why NZ wouldn't want to have a slice of the pie. I'm not talking about taking over all China operations or anything to that extent.

Sure, the market is there, but that doesn't mean NZ can tap it effectively, as there will always be a great reluctance for the Chinese tourists to actually fly NZ (or any other carrier from an English-speaking country), because of the (either real or perceived) language and cultural barrier. I'm Chinese and even my parents (who speak reasonably-fluent English and live and work in NZ in English-speaking environments) will readily choose a Chinese airline over NZ/QF/KE etc; and when my grandparents (who don't speak much English) used to visit NZ they paid extra to fly on a Chinese airline so they wouldn't have to struggle with language barrier. I think there is a perceived inconvenience associated with flying on a non-Chinese airline - whether it be booking, onboard, or customer service, and therefore a psychological reluctance.

My personal take on it is that the older (and more affluent) Chinese tourists will try their best to stick to Chinese service - fly to New Zealand on a Chinese airline, go on a group tour with Chinese guide and Chinese driver, often stopping at Chinese restaurants as much as possible (when I worked in buses I saw some of the tour itineraries - it was very much a Chinese restaurant for dinner every night). They want to see New Zealand for its scenery, rather than try to engage with the culture, and this is especially true for the South Island; this relates back to the Chinese concept of tourism, which is centred around sightseeing, unlike the young Kiwi's idea of an OE with cultural immersion etc etc. I was reading a Chinese article on tourism psychology to validate this and came across a passage talking about China having a more collectivist culture and there is a strong preference towards traveling as a group for safety as well as to help each other in case of need.


I appreicate the barriers and I don't disbute that. But surely, there's opportunity to grow a presense there! Where will the market be in 10,20 and 30 years time?

Ironically, this is the issue I believe NZ will have with ICN, getting the Koreans (a much smaller total number of people) off KE and onto NZ.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7535
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:29 am

NZ6 wrote:
DavidJ08 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
I can't understand why, with year on year growth of just under 20%, half a million visitors a year why NZ wouldn't want to have a slice of the pie. I'm not talking about taking over all China operations or anything to that extent.

Sure, the market is there, but that doesn't mean NZ can tap it effectively, as there will always be a great reluctance for the Chinese tourists to actually fly NZ (or any other carrier from an English-speaking country), because of the (either real or perceived) language and cultural barrier. I'm Chinese and even my parents (who speak reasonably-fluent English and live and work in NZ in English-speaking environments) will readily choose a Chinese airline over NZ/QF/KE etc; and when my grandparents (who don't speak much English) used to visit NZ they paid extra to fly on a Chinese airline so they wouldn't have to struggle with language barrier. I think there is a perceived inconvenience associated with flying on a non-Chinese airline - whether it be booking, onboard, or customer service, and therefore a psychological reluctance.

My personal take on it is that the older (and more affluent) Chinese tourists will try their best to stick to Chinese service - fly to New Zealand on a Chinese airline, go on a group tour with Chinese guide and Chinese driver, often stopping at Chinese restaurants as much as possible (when I worked in buses I saw some of the tour itineraries - it was very much a Chinese restaurant for dinner every night). They want to see New Zealand for its scenery, rather than try to engage with the culture, and this is especially true for the South Island; this relates back to the Chinese concept of tourism, which is centred around sightseeing, unlike the young Kiwi's idea of an OE with cultural immersion etc etc. I was reading a Chinese article on tourism psychology to validate this and came across a passage talking about China having a more collectivist culture and there is a strong preference towards traveling as a group for safety as well as to help each other in case of need.


I appreicate the barriers and I don't disbute that. But surely, there's opportunity to grow a presense there! Where will the market be in 10,20 and 30 years time?

Ironically, this is the issue I believe NZ will have with ICN, getting the Koreans (a much smaller total number of people) off KE and onto NZ.


I agree re ICN, and surely NZ have gone there because of OZ? It’s a reasonable sized market but as you say how much can NZ take from KE vs actually grow the market? I’m sure NZ know what they are doing though.

TPE was similar and a smaller market than ICN, CI/BR don’t do non stop, only CI via BNE

China I agree, it’s a huge market and NZ with the 789 have finally started making a bit of money flying to PVG to the point where they may use the 78J there, double daily makes sense with the market size to maximise connectivity and aircraft utilisation, but I’m not sure about anything beyond PVG, PEK is covered by CA while is there enough traffic elsewhere that can’t connect through PVG.
 
xiaotung
Posts: 1087
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:49 am

DavidJ08 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
I can't understand why, with year on year growth of just under 20%, half a million visitors a year why NZ wouldn't want to have a slice of the pie. I'm not talking about taking over all China operations or anything to that extent.

Sure, the market is there, but that doesn't mean NZ can tap it effectively, as there will always be a great reluctance for the Chinese tourists to actually fly NZ (or any other carrier from an English-speaking country), because of the (either real or perceived) language and cultural barrier. I'm Chinese and even my parents (who speak reasonably-fluent English and live and work in NZ in English-speaking environments) will readily choose a Chinese airline over NZ/QF/KE etc; and when my grandparents (who don't speak much English) used to visit NZ they paid extra to fly on a Chinese airline so they wouldn't have to struggle with language barrier. I think there is a perceived inconvenience associated with flying on a non-Chinese airline - whether it be booking, onboard, or customer service, and therefore a psychological reluctance.

My personal take on it is that the older (and more affluent) Chinese tourists will try their best to stick to Chinese service - fly to New Zealand on a Chinese airline, go on a group tour with Chinese guide and Chinese driver, often stopping at Chinese restaurants as much as possible (when I worked in buses I saw some of the tour itineraries - it was very much a Chinese restaurant for dinner every night). They want to see New Zealand for its scenery, rather than try to engage with the culture, and this is especially true for the South Island; this relates back to the Chinese concept of tourism, which is centred around sightseeing, unlike the young Kiwi's idea of an OE with cultural immersion etc etc. I was reading a Chinese article on tourism psychology to validate this and came across a passage talking about China having a more collectivist culture and there is a strong preference towards traveling as a group for safety as well as to help each other in case of need.


It really depends. I think the language barrier issue is over exaggerated. The tour groups' choice of carrier is at the hands of the tour companies. There is usually a tour guide that speaks some English who travels with them. We see no problem with tour groups travelling to Europe with LH/AF/VS, etc. Then you have millennials who typically speak much better English and are eager to experience western things. Lastly, probably most relevant to your point, the parents who are visiting family and friends and travelling independently indeed tend to choose Chinese carriers but they only represent a very small market. As NZ develop this market and millennials grow, the language barrier will not be an issue, not to mention on NZ the majority of cabin crew are Chinese citizens. To give up growing this massive market is quite foolish.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1675
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:49 am

NZ6 wrote:
I can't understand why, with year on year growth of just under 20%, half a million visitors a year why NZ wouldn't want to have a slice of the pie. I'm not talking about taking over all China operations or anything to that extent.

Agree. We’re talking about the worlds most populous country (and soon the world’s largest economy), with a significant potential also for VFR traffic in both directions. It’s taken many years to get it to profitability. It would be culpable negligence For NZ to turn it’s back on China now.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
NZ6
Posts: 1615
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:26 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
I agree re ICN, and surely NZ have gone there because of OZ? It’s a reasonable sized market but as you say how much can NZ take from KE vs actually grow the market? I’m sure NZ know what they are doing though.

TPE was similar and a smaller market than ICN, CI/BR don’t do non stop, only CI via BNE

China I agree, it’s a huge market and NZ with the 789 have finally started making a bit of money flying to PVG to the point where they may use the 78J there, double daily makes sense with the market size to maximise connectivity and aircraft utilisation, but I’m not sure about anything beyond PVG, PEK is covered by CA while is there enough traffic elsewhere that can’t connect through PVG.

All I know is OZ struggled to get marketshare off KE and I know of one premium Asian carrier who said directly to me (prior to NZ announcing ICN) they've all but given up marketing ICN. Basically no matter what they did customers wouldn't budge off KE.
xiaotung wrote:
It really depends. I think the language barrier issue is over exaggerated. The tour groups' choice of carrier is at the hands of the tour companies. There is usually a tour guide that speaks some English who travels with them. We see no problem with tour groups travelling to Europe with LH/AF/VS, etc. Then you have millennials who typically speak much better English and are eager to experience western things. Lastly, probably most relevant to your point, the parents who are visiting family and friends and travelling independently indeed tend to choose Chinese carriers but they only represent a very small market. As NZ develop this market and millennials grow, the language barrier will not be an issue, not to mention on NZ the majority of cabin crew are Chinese citizens. To give up growing this massive market is quite foolish.

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
DavidByrne wrote:
Agree. We’re talking about the worlds most populous country (and soon the world’s largest economy), with a significant potential also for VFR traffic in both directions. It’s taken many years to get it to profitability. It would be culpable negligence For NZ to turn it’s back on China now.

I wonder if some mistook my comments for NZ needs to own China like it does the USA for example where's it's not the case at all.

It wasn't so long ago, Luxon mentioned Chengdu as a city was closely considering. There are other options and ways to ensure China is successful long term.

I remember before PVG and BJS, Koruman and a few others didn't believe China had any merit. How many Chinese carriers do we see in AKL now?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7535
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:55 am

I think Koruman and friend ms meant they didn’t see any merit for NZ to serve China? I don’t think to many of us would have expected 6-7 Chinese carriers to AKL, mainly the big 3 MU, CZ, CA and 1-2 others.
 
NYKiwi
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:41 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:02 pm

With the QF JFK to SYD completed...knowing only 40 passengers landed with 70 mins fuel left and took 19.15 hours is this not a good indication to NZ for there NY aspirations. Flight time should be about 17 hours wirh a code 3 787 similar to qantas which does PER to LHR should be the ticket and should know be under consideration so they can start ahead of Project Sunrise.

Should also.be handy for sao Paulo also in the future.

I did IAH to SYD this year and that was 16.40 and really felt not to different than IAH to AKL

Interesting times ahead.....i know NZ are waiting for the GE 787s
 
zkncj
Posts: 3911
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:12 pm

NYKiwi wrote:
With the QF JFK to SYD completed...knowing only 40 passengers landed with 70 mins fuel left and took 19.15 hours is this not a good indication to NZ for there NY aspirations. Flight time should be about 17 hours wirh a code 3 787 similar to qantas which does PER to LHR should be the ticket and should know be under consideration so they can start ahead of Project Sunrise.

Should also.be handy for sao Paulo also in the future.

I did IAH to SYD this year and that was 16.40 and really felt not to different than IAH to AKL

Interesting times ahead.....i know NZ are waiting for the GE 787s


Depending on how many rows of Y Strech gets installed on the 789V2 that could help, thinking the V2 will get an high amount of Y stretch rows for the like of the routes they do.
 
NZ516
Posts: 466
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:31 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
BTW - up until a few weeks ago it was possible to see NZ schedules through http://airnewzealand2.innosked.com/sche ... anguage=EN, but this access seems to have been cut off. Does anyone have an alternative link which works? I don't know why NZ makes it so hard to find their schedules. It's not as if they're a commercial secret, or anything. Surely . . . ?


It is a real shame they have dropped this search engine was very useful. At the time they removed it from the main airnz.co.nz site to make it an orphan no longer connected from then on I felt its days were numbered. You can only search for individual days now no longer weekly at https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/flight-schedules
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:23 pm

NZ516 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
BTW - up until a few weeks ago it was possible to see NZ schedules through http://airnewzealand2.innosked.com/sche ... anguage=EN, but this access seems to have been cut off. Does anyone have an alternative link which works? I don't know why NZ makes it so hard to find their schedules. It's not as if they're a commercial secret, or anything. Surely . . . ?


It is a real shame they have dropped this search engine was very useful. At the time they removed it from the main airnz.co.nz site to make it an orphan no longer connected from then on I felt its days were numbered. You can only search for individual days now no longer weekly at https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/flight-schedules


There were a number of issues with this such as

- It was a 3rd party service so had an additional cost to run which is pointless given below
- It wasn't accurate all the time given how schedule information is passed between systems. (A schedule request isn't sent to the airline for live information its stored information that is only updated periodicity)
- Schedules were once set and seldom changed. Now, unfortunately, schedules change like the weather so not ideal for travel planning.
- The use of such a service reduced dramatically as online bookings became more common. Even less so as mobile use increased.
- Using schedules doesn't work well for multi-leg long haul travel as many customers are unaware of all the options available to them.
- More and more customers are selecting flights based on price over schedule due to the amount of competition and the amount of fluctuation in pricing

The upside is, there are free services out there but my guess is most customers now just make 'dummy' bookings or use the flexibility option or 7-day slider depending on the website their using to see what flights are available on their day

http://www.flightlookup.com/
https://www.passrider.com/reservations/advanced-search/

Old score but I miss the old paper timetables and I'm pretty sure I still have a few from the 90's stored away in a box somewhere.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:31 pm

NZ6 wrote:
The upside is, there are free services out there but my guess is most customers now just make 'dummy' bookings or use the flexibility option or 7-day slider depending on the website their using to see what flights are available on their day

http://www.flightlookup.com/
https://www.passrider.com/reservations/advanced-search/

Old score but I miss the old paper timetables and I'm pretty sure I still have a few from the 90's stored away in a box somewhere.


That's brilliant - thanks so much for these links. They each have their quirks, and Passrider doesn't cover all NZ destinations, but they're both really useful. It's like having an OAG on your computer. I too miss the old hard-copy timetables - I do have a few left, but I really regret throwing out the old '60s NZ/TE/QF timetables years ago.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:36 am

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
The upside is, there are free services out there but my guess is most customers now just make 'dummy' bookings or use the flexibility option or 7-day slider depending on the website their using to see what flights are available on their day

http://www.flightlookup.com/
https://www.passrider.com/reservations/advanced-search/

Old score but I miss the old paper timetables and I'm pretty sure I still have a few from the 90's stored away in a box somewhere.


That's brilliant - thanks so much for these links. They each have their quirks, and Passrider doesn't cover all NZ destinations, but they're both really useful. It's like having an OAG on your computer. I too miss the old hard-copy timetables - I do have a few left, but I really regret throwing out the old '60s NZ/TE/QF timetables years ago.


I couldn't find this link earlier. This one will also show booking class availability if that's of any interest. I've never sat down and compared it to Carina before so can't stand by its accuracy

https://flightavailability.bcdtravel.co ... lMain.aspx
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:56 am

Nice one NZ6 these are very useful for persons interested in following schedules.
I also have a timetable collection from the 80s and enjoyed getting a copy of the latest edition off the shelf at the airport. They came out every six months, so to be able to compare it with my old copy was like studying for an exam!
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:17 am

NZ516 wrote:
Nice one NZ6 these are very useful for persons interested in following schedules.
I also have a timetable collection from the 80s and enjoyed getting a copy of the latest edition off the shelf at the airport. They came out every six months, so to be able to compare it with my old copy was like studying for an exam!

You and me both!
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
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SXI899
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:23 am

LamboAston wrote:
MCX could be moving to Air Chathams - the new registration painted on is in the same location as MCO

MCX is heading overseas.
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dhcomet
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:39 am

How or why on Earth is ATR ZK-MCB still around ? I've never known air NZ to fly around an aircraft for so long without proper decals. Actually I've never known any airline to do that for more than a year period. It's bewildering.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:42 am

dhcomet wrote:
How or why on Earth is ATR ZK-MCB still around ? I've never known air NZ to fly around an aircraft for so long without proper decals. Actually I've never known any airline to do that for more than a year period. It's bewildering.


You could say the same as ZK-OKT which has been around since August 2018, and current has its leased extended till around April 2020 at the moment.

They could of atleast put an white sticker over the EVA Air titles, yet NZ seems to be happy to fly it around saying EVA.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:46 am

Just noticed ZK-OKS 77W as NZ6073 SFO-AKL, taking a closer look NZ8 diverted to HNL 18/10 looks like it may have overnighted there before continuing on, guessing this is a positioning flight? Anyone know the original issue? Medical?

ZK-OKQ operated NZ6071 SFO-AKL 19/10 as a daylight service, turning as NZ8 20/10 delayed till 0100 21/10.

Are these carrying pax on the SFO-AKL sectors? 77Ws are doing some NRT runs and OKP is in SIN for maintenance, so is it just a re numbered flight and retimed to get an extra rotation in?
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:59 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Just noticed ZK-OKS 77W as NZ6073 SFO-AKL, taking a closer look NZ8 diverted to HNL 18/10 looks like it may have overnighted there before continuing on, guessing this is a positioning flight? Anyone know the original issue? Medical?

ZK-OKQ operated NZ6071 SFO-AKL 19/10 as a daylight service, turning as NZ8 20/10 delayed till 0100 21/10.

Are these carrying pax on the SFO-AKL sectors? 77Ws are doing some NRT runs and OKP is in SIN for maintenance, so is it just a re numbered flight and retimed to get an extra rotation in?


Diverted due to engineering.

Repositioned HNL to SFO on Sat as NZ6008 then needed crew rest before returning to AKL as NZ6073.

It's just south of Tonga as I post this.
 
a7ala
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:58 pm

WLG Airport released its 2040 masterplan today. $1B in infrastructure investment to cater for a doubling of passengers over the next 20 years, with most of it happening over the next 10 years. Includes:

- the extension of the main terminal to the South to provide new International/Domestic Jet facilties
- the conversion of the current international/rock to domestic regionals
- southern apron extended east into the golf course
- relocation of fire station to western apron
- relocation of rental cars/catering to miramar school site
- new multi-user freight hub
- potential runway extension

https://www.wellingtonairport.co.nz/vision/
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:09 am

a7ala wrote:
WLG Airport released its 2040 masterplan today. $1B in infrastructure investment to cater for a doubling of passengers over the next 20 years, with most of it happening over the next 10 years. Includes:

- the extension of the main terminal to the South to provide new International/Domestic Jet facilties
- the conversion of the current international/rock to domestic regionals
- southern apron extended east into the golf course
- relocation of fire station to western apron
- relocation of rental cars/catering to miramar school site
- new multi-user freight hub
- potential runway extension

https://www.wellingtonairport.co.nz/vision/


Oh the ol masterplan...

On the upside, it's only a 20-year plan and I really like the switch of terminals. It seems like a sensible use of the land available to them.

My only two issues are

1) There a planned increase of 6million passengers a year and no confirmed improvement for access to the Airport. The Vic tunnel is still a 2-way single lane access point. This plan is for 20 years if they were to build something decent and future proof it'll take over half that to complete. For example, from planning, design to open for use, the Waterview tunnels in AKL took nearly 15 years.

Looking at the aerial shots with the changes made, it's still accessed via the existing Calabar Road then onto Stewart Duff Drive.

The plans also accommodate rapid transport from Wellington’s city centre


I admit that's not the sole responsibility of WLG but to me, it's a significant issue which without a known solution, how is WLG accommodating it?

2) Will a runway extension ever be approved? What happens if it doesn't?
 
a7ala
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:19 am

NZ6 wrote:
[
2) Will a runway extension ever be approved? What happens if it doesn't?


My understanding is that the Masterplan changes are not contingent on the runway extension (it's to cater for BAU growth). Were the extension to happen it might bring projects forward sooner by a few years or if it didnt happen might push things back a couple. At the end of the day its an infrastructure deployment plan so that development can be staged in a sensible way - the speed of which will be dictated by the pace of future growth.
 
lessredtape
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:47 am

NZ516 wrote:
Palmerston North mayor urges airline to bring in the jets

Palmerston North mayor Grant Smith is campaigning hard to encourage Air New Zealand to bring back jets to provide more capacity on flights to and from the city.

His calls, repeated in a meeting with Air New Zealand staff on Tuesday, follow Jetstar's decision to stop flying from regional centres, including Palmerston North to Auckland, from the end of November.

Smith said passenger loadings on Palmerston North to Auckland flights on both airlines were strong, with Jetstar's offerings having boosted numbers through the airport by 100,000 a year.

"It's one of New Zealand's strongest regional routes. There are some real opportunities here for the jets to come back.


more:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standa ... n-the-jets

This is interesting but there is the challenge in finding a spare A320 and also what does the ATR then do once it is displaced. They could say well Invercargill has got it what about Palmy and we are a bigger city and so forth.

surely PMR could support a few A320s/B737s a week from OZ, even if only at busy times like Xmas ?
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:17 am

lessredtape wrote:
surely PMR could support a few A320s/B737s a week from OZ, even if only at busy times like Xmas ?

Been there, done that, didn't work. As with HLZ, ROT and DUD (except for DUD-BNE which hangs by a thread). Hardly worth gearing up with all the facilities just for a few weeks at Christmas, anyway. More chance of the next Transtasman port being WKA, IMO. But I'm absolutely not holding my breath on that one either.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:58 am

a7ala wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
[
2) Will a runway extension ever be approved? What happens if it doesn't?


My understanding is that the Masterplan changes are not contingent on the runway extension (it's to cater for BAU growth). Were the extension to happen it might bring projects forward sooner by a few years or if it didnt happen might push things back a couple. At the end of the day its an infrastructure deployment plan so that development can be staged in a sensible way - the speed of which will be dictated by the pace of future growth.


I wasn't thinking along the lines of it being a show-stopper for the development plan but more around how does it affect anticipated growth etc

My guess is some of the growth talked about will be from that mid to long haul plans they have.
 
Sylus
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:07 am

DavidByrne wrote:
lessredtape wrote:
surely PMR could support a few A320s/B737s a week from OZ, even if only at busy times like Xmas ?

Been there, done that, didn't work. As with HLZ, ROT and DUD (except for DUD-BNE which hangs by a thread). Hardly worth gearing up with all the facilities just for a few weeks at Christmas, anyway. More chance of the next Transtasman port being WKA, IMO. But I'm absolutely not holding my breath on that one either.


Well actually, one could argue that the demand that exists ex these airports DID and probably still does exist (not entirely sure about ROT) but its more that the operator (NZ) saw fit to not cannibalise connection traffic ex AKL,WLG, CHC on trans-tasman. Freedom Air used to average 75-80 percent load lactor ex PMR whilst operating in early 2000's (Stats NZ) whilst HLZ and DUD frequently saw over 90% in some months. In 2018 the DUD-BNE route saw 21,751 passengers from 175 services (738 configured with 176 seats), resulting in around a 71% load factor. While that doesn't sound too good, it actually beat out many other VA trans-tasman routes that year. Does it make it viable though? Who knows. The point is that there is demand, but the likely operators don't seem like the right candidates. Again TT probably does seem like a possibly feasible operator. For all of LCC Kiwi Air's failures in the late 90's, apparently they made a million dollars in the first year filling aircraft over 95% ex HLZ and DUD. That's according to Ewan Wilson's book - and if you believe it of course....
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:29 am

Sylus wrote:
Well actually, one could argue that the demand that exists ex these airports DID and probably still does exist (not entirely sure about ROT) but its more that the operator (NZ) saw fit to not cannibalise connection traffic ex AKL,WLG, CHC on trans-tasman. Freedom Air used to average 75-80 percent load lactor ex PMR whilst operating in early 2000's (Stats NZ) whilst HLZ and DUD frequently saw over 90% in some months. In 2018 the DUD-BNE route saw 21,751 passengers from 175 services (738 configured with 176 seats), resulting in around a 71% load factor. While that doesn't sound too good, it actually beat out many other VA trans-tasman routes that year. Does it make it viable though? Who knows. The point is that there is demand, but the likely operators don't seem like the right candidates. Again TT probably does seem like a possibly feasible operator. For all of LCC Kiwi Air's failures in the late 90's, apparently they made a million dollars in the first year filling aircraft over 95% ex HLZ and DUD. That's according to Ewan Wilson's book - and if you believe it of course....

It's interesting to speculate as to what the longer-term trends on Transtasman may be. Will it be consolidation on the existing (and perhaps a handful of additional) routes, or will there be a proliferation of routes to secondary ports on both sides of the Tasman? Who knows; but the existing carriers seem very comfortable with the status quo, so I woudln't think it likely they'll go for proliferation.

Having said that, it's interesting to note that the sort of loads you quote from some of the secondary ports would suit a smaller aircraft (dare I say it, but something along the lines of the A220). Which could also provide jet services to places like NSN without penalty (as far as I can determine, for the -100 at least) - if the rumour that AKL-NSN was under consideration for jet services have any basis in reality. And, clearly, routes like AKL-IVC, HLZ-CHC, WLG-DUD etc etc And services to IUE, CBR, HBA etc.

Not suggesting this has any likelihood whatsoever, but just observing . . .
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tealnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:14 pm

NZ6 wrote:
a7ala wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
[
2) Will a runway extension ever be approved? What happens if it doesn't?


My understanding is that the Masterplan changes are not contingent on the runway extension (it's to cater for BAU growth). Were the extension to happen it might bring projects forward sooner by a few years or if it didnt happen might push things back a couple. At the end of the day its an infrastructure deployment plan so that development can be staged in a sensible way - the speed of which will be dictated by the pace of future growth.


I wasn't thinking along the lines of it being a show-stopper for the development plan but more around how does it affect anticipated growth etc

My guess is some of the growth talked about will be from that mid to long haul plans they have.

There's still a question about what might be possible from the existing runway. Zeke's numbers say that an A359 could comfortably do Singapore non-stop with full pax, notwithstanding the claims in the Astra study about A359 performance in the wet. And we've never had any useful info about results of the A350 testing on the existing runway.
 
Megatop747-412
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:21 pm

Just saw this on Stuff - https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/11679 ... r-36-years

So it seemed that NZ is dropping LAX-LHR in favour on AKL-NYC from Oct 2020 - a year’s time. Wonder whether NZ is going to fly into JFK or EWR? Don’t think they would choose LGA would they?

The article did mention the NYC flights would be operated using a 787-9, but didn’t mention about any possible new seating config for it.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:23 pm

Megatop747-412 wrote:
Just saw this on Stuff - https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/11679 ... r-36-years

So it seemed that NZ is dropping LAX-LHR in favour on AKL-NYC from Oct 2020 - a year’s time. Wonder whether NZ is going to fly into JFK or EWR? Don’t think they would choose LGA would they?

The article did mention the NYC flights would be operated using a 787-9, but didn’t mention about any possible new seating config for it.

Unless something major has changed (Brexit perhaps?) I think this is a mistake. Excited for NY (and EWR would be a solid bet) but don’t think it should be at the expense of LHR.

3 main reasons to retain LHR:
1) It is (or certainly has been) one of NZs most profitable routes.
2) Provides a certain level of diversity regarding destinations (not putting all the eggs in the US basket).
3) Brand recognition/presence - LHR does have a certain level of prestige to it, it gives NZ that presence in the UK/EU, it does have that B-list celebrity use, and even as a fly the flag exercise does give New Zealand in general a boost in the UK.

With this decision, I’m pretty certain we can farewell any chance of 77X/A350 (unless they’re secretly planning LHR direct). LAX no longer would need 2x 77W daily sized planes as the LHR through pax won’t be on it and neither will NY pax so 2x daily 78J will do the job. I’d also bet money (provided no recession) that another US/Canada destination will be on the cards as a result (SEA/YYZ/DEN).
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a7ala
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:19 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
[
3 main reasons to retain LHR:
1) It is (or certainly has been) one of NZs most profitable routes.


I think thats the point - its not profitable anymore. As they said in the press release competition from mid-globe to LON is incredibly intense and it just doesnt make sense from end of globe carriers to tag through to the other side of the world. Its only QF via SIN, BA via SIN and NZ via LAX that are doing it now. I suspect once project sunrise routes develop QF will stop extending through SIN and it wont be too long before BA will follow.

The only same carrier connections will be provided by the mid-globe hub carriers.

I wonder what NZ will be able to sell their LHR slot for?
 
jimmyah
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:20 pm

Megatop747-412 wrote:
Just saw this on Stuff - https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/11679 ... r-36-years

So it seemed that NZ is dropping LAX-LHR in favour on AKL-NYC from Oct 2020 - a year’s time. Wonder whether NZ is going to fly into JFK or EWR? Don’t think they would choose LGA would they?

The article did mention the NYC flights would be operated using a 787-9, but didn’t mention about any possible new seating config for it.


Few things to note:

- will be operated by a code 2 789

- flight time of 15hr 40m northbound and 17hr 40m southbound,fifth longest in the world by distance

- Less than seven percent of all airline travellers between Auckland and London chose to fly via Los Angeles last year.

I must say, for the last point I found that the air NZ connection was considerably more expensive on NZs website than the likes of SQ and Virgin Atlantic.
 
DavidJ08
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:35 pm

Anyone know when the last NZ1/2 LAX-LHR will operate? I've booked leave for next October for my UK trip, which I was hoping to do via NZ1/2 one way (and Asia the other way - to go full circle around the globe), so this latest announcement throws a spanner the works...
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:59 pm

Post October 2020 - what will the 77W fleet allocations look like?

AKL-LAX 2x Daily
AKL-SFO 1x Daily
AKL-IAH 1x Daily

Assuming IAH's 789 allocation will be moved to EWR?
 
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flyPIT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:52 pm

Can someone tell me if FedEx still flies to AKL, and if so what is (or was) the frequency and routing?
FLYi
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:23 pm

zkncj wrote:
Post October 2020 - what will the 77W fleet allocations look like?

AKL-LAX 2x Daily
AKL-SFO 1x Daily
AKL-IAH 1x Daily

Assuming IAH's 789 allocation will be moved to EWR?

That assumes eight aircraft in the 77W fleet. Do we know for sure when the BR aircraft gets returned?
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NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:24 pm

zkncj wrote:
Post October 2020 - what will the 77W fleet allocations look like?

AKL-LAX 2x Daily
AKL-SFO 1x Daily
AKL-IAH 1x Daily

Assuming IAH's 789 allocation will be moved to EWR?


IAH has not been operated by a 789 for a long time now. The EWR route will be using the new on delivery 789 NZR as well as the other code 2s in the fleet.
The 7 owned 77Ws allocation probably will be
AKL-LAX daily 2 frames
AKL-SFO daily 2 frames
AKL-IAH daily 2 frames
The freed up 77W from London could operate 3 extra AKL-LAX flights making 10 weekly and one day spare for maintenance etc.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:26 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
Do we know for sure when the BR aircraft gets returned?


April 2020 iit was announced in the annual general meeting last month.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:31 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Can someone tell me if FedEx still flies to AKL, and if so what is (or was) the frequency and routing?


I know it flies in every Sunday with the MD-11F here is the press release for the route it takes:


FedEx Direct US-New Zealand Flight Launch


FedEx is delighted to announce the launch of a direct U.S. to New Zealand flight beginning from August 5, 2012.

As a pioneer in express transportation, FedEx is the first express transportation service provider to launch a direct U.S. to New Zealand flight with a routing of Los Angeles-Honolulu-Auckland-Sydney-Guangzhou. Doing business with your customers in the U.S., New Zealand and Australia is now easier and faster than ever before!

This once per week flight into Auckland, New Zealand is part of the continued enhancement of our global operational network and our commitment to provide better connectivity, increased capacity and faster service to our New Zealand and Asia Pacific customers.


http://www.fedex.com/nz/about/local/ser ... g2012.html
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:51 pm

NZ516 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Do we know for sure when the BR aircraft gets returned?


April 2020 iit was announced in the annual general meeting last month.


That could always change - with the long-haul mid-life cabin refits comming up
 
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flyPIT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:54 pm

NZ516 wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
Can someone tell me if FedEx still flies to AKL, and if so what is (or was) the frequency and routing?


I know it flies in every Sunday with the MD-11F here is the press release for the route it takes:


FedEx Direct US-New Zealand Flight Launch


FedEx is delighted to announce the launch of a direct U.S. to New Zealand flight beginning from August 5, 2012.

As a pioneer in express transportation, FedEx is the first express transportation service provider to launch a direct U.S. to New Zealand flight with a routing of Los Angeles-Honolulu-Auckland-Sydney-Guangzhou. Doing business with your customers in the U.S., New Zealand and Australia is now easier and faster than ever before!

This once per week flight into Auckland, New Zealand is part of the continued enhancement of our global operational network and our commitment to provide better connectivity, increased capacity and faster service to our New Zealand and Asia Pacific customers.


http://www.fedex.com/nz/about/local/ser ... g2012.html


Thanks!
FLYi
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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos