Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
 
NZ516
Posts: 605
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:13 am

Air NZ announces boost to regional service following Jetstar's exit

Air New Zealand has announced it is increasing capacity on some of its regional routes following Jetstar's withdrawal from the market last month.

During December, the national airline will operate an additional 253 flights on its services between Auckland and Napier, New Plymouth, Nelson and Palmerston North, as well as Nelson and Wellington.

After that, it may pick up Jetstar's slack indefinitely.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2 ... KB4_FiOIR0

Well this is good news for those cities facing a reduction of seats going into the busy christmas school holidays period. A very good gesture by Air NZ good on them.
 
User avatar
77west
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:52 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:24 am

Returned from VLI today on the last 737-300 built, ex NZ, now reg VH-XNU on lease from Nauru Airline. With Air Vanuatus upcoming A220s, will we see more frequencies into AKL, and on that note, whats the status of NZ's return to VLI? Air Van's service was great given what they are working with on these leased frames, but they are starting to show their age.
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
Qantas16
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:43 am

77west wrote:
Returned from VLI today on the last 737-300 built, ex NZ, now reg VH-XNU on lease from Nauru Airline. With Air Vanuatus upcoming A220s, will we see more frequencies into AKL, and on that note, whats the status of NZ's return to VLI? Air Van's service was great given what they are working with on these leased frames, but they are starting to show their age.


Surely will see more flights into AKL. Boosting frequency is a large factor in NF choosing the A220 vs additional 737s. Presuming they retire the 73H once they have all 4 A220s on order, I'd expect to see 10x weekly AKL-VLI services, similar frequency to SYD and BNE/MEL daily (depending on scheduling, that's around 3 aircraft utilised). Flights to NOU/NAN/SUV plus limited expansion elsewhere will utilise the remaining aircraft (+ maintenance requirements).
 
a7ala
Posts: 377
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:13 am

Qantas16 wrote:

Surely will see more flights into AKL. Boosting frequency is a large factor in NF choosing the A220 vs additional 737s. Presuming they retire the 73H once they have all 4 A220s on order, I'd expect to see 10x weekly AKL-VLI services, similar frequency to SYD and BNE/MEL daily (depending on scheduling, that's around 3 aircraft utilised). Flights to NOU/NAN/SUV plus limited expansion elsewhere will utilise the remaining aircraft (+ maintenance requirements).


I recall they publically said the A220 opened the opportunity to service other smaller markets in New Zealand and Australia. Meaning WLG and CHC would be firmly on their radar. Would provide more value for them going into markets they don’t really have access to (domestic connecting fares with NZ are ridiculous) then more into AKL.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4574
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:22 am

a7ala wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:

Surely will see more flights into AKL. Boosting frequency is a large factor in NF choosing the A220 vs additional 737s. Presuming they retire the 73H once they have all 4 A220s on order, I'd expect to see 10x weekly AKL-VLI services, similar frequency to SYD and BNE/MEL daily (depending on scheduling, that's around 3 aircraft utilised). Flights to NOU/NAN/SUV plus limited expansion elsewhere will utilise the remaining aircraft (+ maintenance requirements).


I recall they publically said the A220 opened the opportunity to service other smaller markets in New Zealand and Australia. Meaning WLG and CHC would be firmly on their radar. Would provide more value for them going into markets they don’t really have access to (domestic connecting fares with NZ are ridiculous) then more into AKL.

All depends what they negotiate. Many airlines get connecting flights for $50 each way (jets or just WLG/CHC depending) and $100 each way regionals.
Those are quite reasonable fares if you think about it.
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
a7ala
Posts: 377
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:31 am

Zkpilot wrote:
a7ala wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:

Surely will see more flights into AKL. Boosting frequency is a large factor in NF choosing the A220 vs additional 737s. Presuming they retire the 73H once they have all 4 A220s on order, I'd expect to see 10x weekly AKL-VLI services, similar frequency to SYD and BNE/MEL daily (depending on scheduling, that's around 3 aircraft utilised). Flights to NOU/NAN/SUV plus limited expansion elsewhere will utilise the remaining aircraft (+ maintenance requirements).


I recall they publically said the A220 opened the opportunity to service other smaller markets in New Zealand and Australia. Meaning WLG and CHC would be firmly on their radar. Would provide more value for them going into markets they don’t really have access to (domestic connecting fares with NZ are ridiculous) then more into AKL.

All depends what they negotiate. Many airlines get connecting flights for $50 each way (jets or just WLG/CHC depending) and $100 each way regionals.
Those are quite reasonable fares if you think about it.


Try booking vli-wlg. It’s not $50... main reason is that air NZ doesn’t codeshare with them so why would they provide favourable fares from behind AKL to take traffic away from their other pacific services. Any way aside from the fares it just makes sense to open up new markets if the aircraft size allows. What would be the value in them flying 2xdaily into AKL when they don’t operate a significant hub and the AKL hub doesn’t really help them either?
 
Gasman
Posts: 2203
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:41 am

aerokiwi wrote:
Ugh, EWR.... really??? Dump of an airport with chronic delays and an ass to get to from large swathes of New York City. I mean, to be totally snobby about it, NZ's big New York announcement is really to New Jersey. Lame. Have they actually used Newark before settling on it or was it just "United, therefore, yes"?

JFK or bust. The Gatwick comparison is apt.


Much prefer JFK myself.

Putting aside for a moment the relevance of EWR being a UA hub, could NZ have received slots at JFK even if they'd wanted to?
 
a7ala
Posts: 377
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:55 am

Zkpilot wrote:
All depends what they negotiate. Many airlines get connecting flights for $50 each way (jets or just WLG/CHC depending) and $100 each way regionals.
Those are quite reasonable fares if you think about it.


As an example (first dates google came up with) AKL-VLI return 23nov/30nov is $711. Same flights but WLG-AKL-VLI return is $1427. That’s pretty expensive NZ connecting fares!
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4574
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:00 pm

a7ala wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
a7ala wrote:

I recall they publically said the A220 opened the opportunity to service other smaller markets in New Zealand and Australia. Meaning WLG and CHC would be firmly on their radar. Would provide more value for them going into markets they don’t really have access to (domestic connecting fares with NZ are ridiculous) then more into AKL.

All depends what they negotiate. Many airlines get connecting flights for $50 each way (jets or just WLG/CHC depending) and $100 each way regionals.
Those are quite reasonable fares if you think about it.


Try booking vli-wlg. It’s not $50... main reason is that air NZ doesn’t codeshare with them so why would they provide favourable fares from behind AKL to take traffic away from their other pacific services. Any way aside from the fares it just makes sense to open up new markets if the aircraft size allows. What would be the value in them flying 2xdaily into AKL when they don’t operate a significant hub and the AKL hub doesn’t really help them either?

That’s their problem for not negotiating a proper interline deal with NZ then. As I said plenty of airlines (from various alliances) have agreements with NZ for domestic add-ons that are usually quite reasonable (does depend who full a flight is of course to get the correct booking classes).
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
a7ala
Posts: 377
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:02 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
a7ala wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
All depends what they negotiate. Many airlines get connecting flights for $50 each way (jets or just WLG/CHC depending) and $100 each way regionals.
Those are quite reasonable fares if you think about it.


Try booking vli-wlg. It’s not $50... main reason is that air NZ doesn’t codeshare with them so why would they provide favourable fares from behind AKL to take traffic away from their other pacific services. Any way aside from the fares it just makes sense to open up new markets if the aircraft size allows. What would be the value in them flying 2xdaily into AKL when they don’t operate a significant hub and the AKL hub doesn’t really help them either?

That’s their problem for not negotiating a proper interline deal with NZ then. As I said plenty of airlines (from various alliances) have agreements with NZ for domestic add-ons that are usually quite reasonable (does depend who full a flight is of course to get the correct booking classes).


What a silly thing to say. It’s not “their problem”. It comes down to the commercial considerations of NZ given the relative strength at the negotiating table. NZ doesn’t really care if they get a few more connecting pax and as I said they probably don’t want them if they are going to NF so they will make as much money as they can.

How can NF suddenly magic up a good deal from NZ? If you are in competition with NZ either direct or (in the case of NF) destination competition you won’t be getting a good deal.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4168
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:14 pm

a7ala wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
a7ala wrote:

Try booking vli-wlg. It’s not $50... main reason is that air NZ doesn’t codeshare with them so why would they provide favourable fares from behind AKL to take traffic away from their other pacific services. Any way aside from the fares it just makes sense to open up new markets if the aircraft size allows. What would be the value in them flying 2xdaily into AKL when they don’t operate a significant hub and the AKL hub doesn’t really help them either?

That’s their problem for not negotiating a proper interline deal with NZ then. As I said plenty of airlines (from various alliances) have agreements with NZ for domestic add-ons that are usually quite reasonable (does depend who full a flight is of course to get the correct booking classes).


What a silly thing to say. It’s not “their problem”. It comes down to the commercial considerations of NZ given the relative strength at the negotiating table. NZ doesn’t really care if they get a few more connecting pax and as I said they probably don’t want them if they are going to NF so they will make as much money as they can.

How can NF suddenly magic up a good deal from NZ? If you are in competition with NZ either direct or (in the case of NF) destination competition you won’t be getting a good deal.


NZ used to codeshare with NF, but dropped that over the runway issues at VLI.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1807
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:54 pm

aerokiwi wrote:
Ugh, EWR.... really??? Dump of an airport with chronic delays and an ass to get to from large swathes of New York City. I mean, to be totally snobby about it, NZ's big New York announcement is really to New Jersey. Lame. Have they actually used Newark before settling on it or was it just "United, therefore, yes"?

JFK or bust. The Gatwick comparison is apt.


As an outbound Kiwi, I would have preferred JFK too and I've never flown to EWR but to be honest, I found JFK to be another version of LAX. Old, dated, insanely busy and nothing remotely enjoyable about it (other than planespotting). I'd imagine EWR would be much the same.

Last time I went there, I had flights options to both airports and EWR was closer to Manhattan by rail... (I've decided to google it again, it's about 37mins from EWR by 52mis from JFK). Not that you would opt for a stop en route just to have a shorter rail trip once you arrive in NYC of course and depending on where in Manhatten your staying, changing rail lines at Penn station is more than likely so levels things out again.

But like always the outbound market is one side of the coin and the smaller side at that. Inbound is the key.

NYC is about the Eastern seaboard as a whole as much as it's about NYC. Boston, Philli, Washington, Charlotte you could look at Atlanta, Pittsburgh, Toronto and Montreal as options too

With this in mind, UA's domestic network is critical, isn't it?

Of course there are other things such as
- Line maintenance agreements
- cargo contracts
- GHA's
- Terminal space
- lounge contracts
- gate and runways slots at the right times
- crew accommodation and transport
- catering

All of which would be available in JFK but how do they stack up as a whole against EWR when looked at as a complete picture?
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1821
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:14 pm

I never doubted that NZ would choose EWR, solely on the basis that to do otherwise would make EWR solely a point-to-point destination with little if any feed from the UA network. Given that their whole US strategy is based on the UA relationship, it couldn’t have been any other way.

Next port DEN? Or maybe even LAS (my preference, though this would be a point-to-point market)?
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4383
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:33 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Next port DEN? Or maybe even LAS (my preference, though this would be a point-to-point market)?

I personally think YYZ will happen before those.

Cheers,

C.
 
jerseyewr777
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:44 am

aerokiwi wrote:
Ugh, EWR.... really??? Dump of an airport with chronic delays and an ass to get to from large swathes of New York City. I mean, to be totally snobby about it, NZ's big New York announcement is really to New Jersey. Lame. Have they actually used Newark before settling on it or was it just "United, therefore, yes"?

JFK or bust. The Gatwick comparison is apt.


Have you ever been to JFK?? JFK is also a dump with chronic delays! I've seen planes wait a hour just for a gate!

Large swathes of New York City are of equal distance to both airports with Wall Street being much closer to EWR!!

EWR serves the New York area although located in New Jersey! Kind of like the football Giants & Jets who both play in New Jersey but are called the New York Giants & Jets!!
 
Gasman
Posts: 2203
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:55 am

jerseyewr777 wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
Ugh, EWR.... really??? Dump of an airport with chronic delays and an ass to get to from large swathes of New York City. I mean, to be totally snobby about it, NZ's big New York announcement is really to New Jersey. Lame. Have they actually used Newark before settling on it or was it just "United, therefore, yes"?

JFK or bust. The Gatwick comparison is apt.


Have you ever been to JFK?? JFK is also a dump with chronic delays! I've seen planes wait a hour just for a gate!

Large swathes of New York City are of equal distance to both airports with Wall Street being much closer to EWR!!

EWR serves the New York area although located in New Jersey! Kind of like the football Giants & Jets who both play in New Jersey but are called the New York Giants & Jets!!


Obviously JFK is more convenient to Brooklyn and Queens; but in terms of Manhattan - surely the destination of 90% of tourists it's hard to argue a case for either airport in terms of convenience.

We're all coloured by our experiences and biases; but in the last ten years I've been through JFK 15 times and each experience was smooth and seamless. There was one three hour weather delay on the tarmac but you can hardly blame the airport. I'd be very surprised therefore if EWR was better.

Prestige factor? - no doubt Idlewild wins every time.
 
jerseyewr777
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:29 am

Gasman wrote:
jerseyewr777 wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
Ugh, EWR.... really??? Dump of an airport with chronic delays and an ass to get to from large swathes of New York City. I mean, to be totally snobby about it, NZ's big New York announcement is really to New Jersey. Lame. Have they actually used Newark before settling on it or was it just "United, therefore, yes"?

JFK or bust. The Gatwick comparison is apt.


Have you ever been to JFK?? JFK is also a dump with chronic delays! I've seen planes wait a hour just for a gate!

Large swathes of New York City are of equal distance to both airports with Wall Street being much closer to EWR!!

EWR serves the New York area although located in New Jersey! Kind of like the football Giants & Jets who both play in New Jersey but are called the New York Giants & Jets!!


Obviously JFK is more convenient to Brooklyn and Queens; but in terms of Manhattan - surely the destination of 90% of tourists it's hard to argue a case for either airport in terms of convenience.

We're all coloured by our experiences and biases; but in the last ten years I've been through JFK 15 times and each experience was smooth and seamless. There was one three hour weather delay on the tarmac but you can hardly blame the airport. I'd be very surprised therefore if EWR was better.

Prestige factor? - no doubt Idlewild wins every time.


Prestige? That's becoming a thing of the past for most airlines in my opinion!! NZ would have kept LHR for prestige reasons!!!! The last 3 foreign airlines to announce New York (Corsair, French Bee & Air New Zealand) have all chosen EWR. Atlantic Airways to announce EWR soon as well! If Prestige still existed they would have found their way into JFK!
 
Gasman
Posts: 2203
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:41 am

jerseyewr777 wrote:
The last 3 foreign airlines to announce New York (Corsair, French Bee & Air New Zealand) have all chosen EWR. Atlantic Airways to announce EWR soon as well!


I rest my case.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1845
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:17 am

[threeid][/threeid]
Gasman wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
Ugh, EWR.... really??? Dump of an airport with chronic delays and an ass to get to from large swathes of New York City. I mean, to be totally snobby about it, NZ's big New York announcement is really to New Jersey. Lame. Have they actually used Newark before settling on it or was it just "United, therefore, yes"?

JFK or bust. The Gatwick comparison is apt.


Much prefer JFK myself.

Putting aside for a moment the relevance of EWR being a UA hub, could NZ have received slots at JFK even if they'd wanted to?


Yes an airline could still get into JFK if they really wanted to but who would? For example, UA got into both AMS and LHR with additional slots next year. So the question certainly isn’t could they have chosen JFK it is why they didn’t chose JFK.
 
Gasman
Posts: 2203
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:50 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
Gasman wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
Ugh, EWR.... really??? Dump of an airport with chronic delays and an ass to get to from large swathes of New York City. I mean, to be totally snobby about it, NZ's big New York announcement is really to New Jersey. Lame. Have they actually used Newark before settling on it or was it just "United, therefore, yes"?

JFK or bust. The Gatwick comparison is apt.


Much prefer JFK myself.

Putting aside for a moment the relevance of EWR being a UA hub, could NZ have received slots at JFK even if they'd wanted to?


Yes an airline could still get into JFK if they really wanted to but who would? For example, UA got into both AMS and LHR with additional slots next year. So the question certainly isn’t could they have chosen JFK it is why they didn’t chose JFK.


To which the answer is surely "the UA hub". What other reason could there possibly be?
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1821
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:55 am

planemanofnz wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Next port DEN? Or maybe even LAS (my preference, though this would be a point-to-point market)?

I personally think YYZ will happen before those.

Yes, that's well possible.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
lessredtape
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:57 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:51 am

77west wrote:
Returned from VLI today on the last 737-300 built, ex NZ, now reg VH-XNU on lease from Nauru Airline. With Air Vanuatus upcoming A220s, will we see more frequencies into AKL, and on that note, whats the status of NZ's return to VLI? Air Van's service was great given what they are working with on these leased frames, but they are starting to show their age.

noticed that Nauru Airlines aircraft fly BNE/VLI/AKL 4 days a week with 1 hour in VLI.

What's to stop Nauru from flying BNE/AKL direct in peak periods when fares are very high ? Couldn't Nauru also fly to places like PMR on a low frequency basis ?
 
lessredtape
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:57 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:57 am

DavidByrne wrote:
I never doubted that NZ would choose EWR, solely on the basis that to do otherwise would make EWR solely a point-to-point destination with little if any feed from the UA network. Given that their whole US strategy is based on the UA relationship, it couldn’t have been any other way.

Next port DEN? Or maybe even LAS (my preference, though this would be a point-to-point market)?
DEN has been mentioned many times over past few years. I heard from a contact in Colorado that it was happening a few years back.

Make sense to operate to DEN seasonally in northern winter due to the huge number of Australians/Kiwis skiing in Colorado, as it's now incredibly cheap. Saw family lift tickets 2 weeks ago for AU$50 for 1 adult & 4 kids total.

Sure beats transiting at LAX or changing terminals anywhere else. AKL international to international is so easy. Talk of FJ doing something with their new A350 beyond the west coast USA.
 
jerseyewr777
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:25 am

lessredtape wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
I never doubted that NZ would choose EWR, solely on the basis that to do otherwise would make EWR solely a point-to-point destination with little if any feed from the UA network. Given that their whole US strategy is based on the UA relationship, it couldn’t have been any other way.

Next port DEN? Or maybe even LAS (my preference, though this would be a point-to-point market)?
DEN has been mentioned many times over past few years. I heard from a contact in Colorado that it was happening a few years back.

Make sense to operate to DEN seasonally in northern winter due to the huge number of Australians/Kiwis skiing in Colorado, as it's now incredibly cheap. Saw family lift tickets 2 weeks ago for AU$50 for 1 adult & 4 kids total.

Sure beats transiting at LAX or changing terminals anywhere else. AKL international to international is so easy. Talk of FJ doing something with their new A350 beyond the west coast USA.


Denver? They can route those passengers through other United hubs. My guess the only North American destination left that they will serve will be YYZ.
 
Qantas16
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:23 am

lessredtape wrote:
77west wrote:
Returned from VLI today on the last 737-300 built, ex NZ, now reg VH-XNU on lease from Nauru Airline. With Air Vanuatus upcoming A220s, will we see more frequencies into AKL, and on that note, whats the status of NZ's return to VLI? Air Van's service was great given what they are working with on these leased frames, but they are starting to show their age.

noticed that Nauru Airlines aircraft fly BNE/VLI/AKL 4 days a week with 1 hour in VLI.

What's to stop Nauru from flying BNE/AKL direct in peak periods when fares are very high ? Couldn't Nauru also fly to places like PMR on a low frequency basis ?


Nothing is stopping them, they have an Australian AOC so could fly the route if they wished. But they won't. They aren't exactly well known for reliability and markets like BNE-AKL require a good, reliable schedule if you want to attract high-yielding passengers. CI already operates the route daily with plenty of capacity to take the low-yielding passengers. Also ON's flight is normally pretty well stretched with their RPT ops, NF charters and other charters, I'm not sure they'd have the aircraft to operate a daily BNE-AKL.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4168
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:30 am

lessredtape wrote:
77west wrote:
Returned from VLI today on the last 737-300 built, ex NZ, now reg VH-XNU on lease from Nauru Airline. With Air Vanuatus upcoming A220s, will we see more frequencies into AKL, and on that note, whats the status of NZ's return to VLI? Air Van's service was great given what they are working with on these leased frames, but they are starting to show their age.

noticed that Nauru Airlines aircraft fly BNE/VLI/AKL 4 days a week with 1 hour in VLI.

What's to stop Nauru from flying BNE/AKL direct in peak periods when fares are very high ? Couldn't Nauru also fly to places like PMR on a low frequency basis ?


It’s currently an wet-lease to help out NF while they are currently short on capacity and waiting for there a220s

In theory they could operate BNE-AKL-BNE as they are officially an Australian airline. Probably would do ok at peak, seat only fares on NZ in Dec/Feb can easily set you back $800 return.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2818
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:16 am

jerseyewr777 wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
Ugh, EWR.... really??? Dump of an airport with chronic delays and an ass to get to from large swathes of New York City. I mean, to be totally snobby about it, NZ's big New York announcement is really to New Jersey. Lame. Have they actually used Newark before settling on it or was it just "United, therefore, yes"?

JFK or bust. The Gatwick comparison is apt.


Have you ever been to JFK?? JFK is also a dump with chronic delays! I've seen planes wait a hour just for a gate!

Large swathes of New York City are of equal distance to both airports with Wall Street being much closer to EWR!!

EWR serves the New York area although located in New Jersey! Kind of like the football Giants & Jets who both play in New Jersey but are called the New York Giants & Jets!!


Yes. I've been to both many times. EWR predominantly for an extended US work trip based around a United itinerary. The weather related delays were insane. The terminals were dumps. Vowed never to go near it again. And don't start me with the parking lot that is the Turnpike or whatever they call that main arterial road. Missed two flights as a result.

Sure JFK has its problems. But in my experience far fewer than Newark.

Taxi and uber fares to EWR are about double that to JFK, most of the terminals are substantially nicer at JFK and I'm on the subway network straight away with easier access to Brooklyn and no awful changeover at Penn station.

I don't buy the connecting pax argument either. If there's one market that should be O&D sufficient it's New York. If I was in Boston I'd probably go for the IAH transfer than the delayed prone nightmare of Newark. Yay to summertime thunderstorms!

But whatever. NZ is stuck with United as its US partner. A shame. Delta is so much better.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4574
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:38 am

a7ala wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
a7ala wrote:

Try booking vli-wlg. It’s not $50... main reason is that air NZ doesn’t codeshare with them so why would they provide favourable fares from behind AKL to take traffic away from their other pacific services. Any way aside from the fares it just makes sense to open up new markets if the aircraft size allows. What would be the value in them flying 2xdaily into AKL when they don’t operate a significant hub and the AKL hub doesn’t really help them either?

That’s their problem for not negotiating a proper interline deal with NZ then. As I said plenty of airlines (from various alliances) have agreements with NZ for domestic add-ons that are usually quite reasonable (does depend who full a flight is of course to get the correct booking classes).


What a silly thing to say. It’s not “their problem”. It comes down to the commercial considerations of NZ given the relative strength at the negotiating table. NZ doesn’t really care if they get a few more connecting pax and as I said they probably don’t want them if they are going to NF so they will make as much money as they can.

How can NF suddenly magic up a good deal from NZ? If you are in competition with NZ either direct or (in the case of NF) destination competition you won’t be getting a good deal.

Yet you say that despite NZ not flying there... :roll:
NZ is always happy to have more domestic traffic. So yes it is NFs problem and if anything I’d say it’s more a case of them not wanting the relationship rather than not trying hard enough. So who’s making the “silly” comments? :roll:
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
a7ala
Posts: 377
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:56 am

Zkpilot wrote:
a7ala wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
That’s their problem for not negotiating a proper interline deal with NZ then. As I said plenty of airlines (from various alliances) have agreements with NZ for domestic add-ons that are usually quite reasonable (does depend who full a flight is of course to get the correct booking classes).


What a silly thing to say. It’s not “their problem”. It comes down to the commercial considerations of NZ given the relative strength at the negotiating table. NZ doesn’t really care if they get a few more connecting pax and as I said they probably don’t want them if they are going to NF so they will make as much money as they can.

How can NF suddenly magic up a good deal from NZ? If you are in competition with NZ either direct or (in the case of NF) destination competition you won’t be getting a good deal.

Yet you say that despite NZ not flying there... :roll:
NZ is always happy to have more domestic traffic. So yes it is NFs problem and if anything I’d say it’s more a case of them not wanting the relationship rather than not trying hard enough. So who’s making the “silly” comments? :roll:


NZ used to fly there of course and as i said Vanuatu competes as a holiday destination with Fiji raro etc etc so is competition. I’m sure vn would love to have access to better domestic fares. Why wouldn’t vn want a relationship with one of the biggest airlines in the pacific giving decent access to domestic NZ? They have a codeshare arrangement with qf in Australia which provides good domestic add ons there.

Anyway my original point was that the airline would be looking at other domestic New Zealand destinations (which they have said publicly) with the A220 and the size of the add on fares NZ currently charges shows there is probably merit.
 
NYKiwi
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:41 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:27 pm

Living in NY I will add my comments as there is alot of EWR v JFK.

Both are pretty good, and there is nothing wrong with C at EWR...Both are accessable to Manhattan by train bus taxi, but dont think EWR is double.

I think is is all about UA sure there will be some connection but net they are in JV so can leverage UA and if any issues they can use UA to get passangers onto other flights also....in JFK not really an option.

Weather, yes EWR can get some big delays but at times JFK also....usually same weather will hit both so its not one over the other if its 3 hour delay at EWR its about the same at JFK.

Also from memory i thought EWR won the SQ non.stop as they can give the flight priority....probably same with NZ there flights can not queue up for 2 hours then take off
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 3012
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:04 pm

EWR is much cheaper and hassle free to get to by train from NYC than JFK. But taxis to/from EWR have a $15 surcharge as EWR is in NJ and NYC taxis aren't allowed to pick up fares in another state.

I do know of one large Australian corporate client UA lost when they left JFK. For reasons never fully explained, the client forbids their staff who need to travel to NYC to use EWR.
 
NZ516
Posts: 605
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:29 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Watch this space for a huge increase in Bali capacity next season.

Been wondering if CHC-DPS would stand a chance seasonally now that AKL has pretty much daily frequency in peak times. Also CHC-HNL?


CHC to DPS could be a goer say 2 per week winter seasonal. But I think that AKL to DPS should go daily first. All the 3 Aussie airlines (VA, QF, JQ) take many transit passengers CHC to DPS via SYD, BNE and MEL every day. So there is a significant amount of passengers going on connecting flights plus the ones going up via AKL onto NZ and EK. Some even go on SQ and do a backtrack via SIN.
Last edited by NZ516 on Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
tu2130
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:41 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:14 pm

I noticed ZK-NEP has been not flying for 11 days, and will fly later today, is there a reason why it wasn't flying for 11 days?
Air New Zealand. Proud to fly.
 
User avatar
LamboAston
Posts: 658
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:46 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:14 am

tu2130 wrote:
I noticed ZK-NEP has been not flying for 11 days, and will fly later today, is there a reason why it wasn't flying for 11 days?

Had some sort of problem in TRG that was able to position no pax to NSN
AS350, B733/4/7/8/9, B744/8, B762/3, B772/E/L/W, B788/9, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT75/6, Q300/400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D, E110, C152/172/206/208 PA22/28/38
NZ EK EY QR QF SQ UA US CO FZ FR, U2 BA VA VS MH EI EY LH EN NM TG GZ SA
 
lessredtape
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:57 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:34 am

Qantas16 wrote:
lessredtape wrote:
77west wrote:
Returned from VLI today on the last 737-300 built, ex NZ, now reg VH-XNU on lease from Nauru Airline. With Air Vanuatus upcoming A220s, will we see more frequencies into AKL, and on that note, whats the status of NZ's return to VLI? Air Van's service was great given what they are working with on these leased frames, but they are starting to show their age.

noticed that Nauru Airlines aircraft fly BNE/VLI/AKL 4 days a week with 1 hour in VLI.

What's to stop Nauru from flying BNE/AKL direct in peak periods when fares are very high ? Couldn't Nauru also fly to places like PMR on a low frequency basis ?


Nothing is stopping them, they have an Australian AOC so could fly the route if they wished. But they won't. They aren't exactly well known for reliability and markets like BNE-AKL require a good, reliable schedule if you want to attract high-yielding passengers. CI already operates the route daily with plenty of capacity to take the low-yielding passengers. Also ON's flight is normally pretty well stretched with their RPT ops, NF charters and other charters, I'm not sure they'd have the aircraft to operate a daily BNE-AKL.

Specifically looked at Dec 22 BNE/AKL & back 2 weeks later & then 3 days either side of those dates.

Nothing under AU$800 unless willing to fly Xmas Day.

CI was around AU$1200

Seems to be a bit cheaper AKL/BNE/AKL though
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7811
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:01 am

NZ6 wrote:
Watch this space for a huge increase in Bali capacity next season.


Maybe daily from AKL, could we see 2 weekly CHC-DPS? And 2 weekly CHC-HNL with CHC-PER year round 2 weekly as well? Would use 1 789, On tip of daily AKL-HNL, and AKL-PER, additional year round frequency to PER has been mentioned before, so far nothing.
 
Qantas16
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:40 am

lessredtape wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
lessredtape wrote:
noticed that Nauru Airlines aircraft fly BNE/VLI/AKL 4 days a week with 1 hour in VLI.

What's to stop Nauru from flying BNE/AKL direct in peak periods when fares are very high ? Couldn't Nauru also fly to places like PMR on a low frequency basis ?


Nothing is stopping them, they have an Australian AOC so could fly the route if they wished. But they won't. They aren't exactly well known for reliability and markets like BNE-AKL require a good, reliable schedule if you want to attract high-yielding passengers. CI already operates the route daily with plenty of capacity to take the low-yielding passengers. Also ON's flight is normally pretty well stretched with their RPT ops, NF charters and other charters, I'm not sure they'd have the aircraft to operate a daily BNE-AKL.

Specifically looked at Dec 22 BNE/AKL & back 2 weeks later & then 3 days either side of those dates.

Nothing under AU$800 unless willing to fly Xmas Day.

CI was around AU$1200

Seems to be a bit cheaper AKL/BNE/AKL though


Sure, but what are you proposing? They operate BNE-AKL-BNE for 3 weeks over Christmas? If the market was so lucrative at that point, QF/VA/NZ would put a lot more extra capacity on it to absorb it. ON would need to establish contracts with a GHA in AKL and those costs alone would be expensive for such a short period of time.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4168
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:02 am

Qantas16 wrote:
lessredtape wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:

Nothing is stopping them, they have an Australian AOC so could fly the route if they wished. But they won't. They aren't exactly well known for reliability and markets like BNE-AKL require a good, reliable schedule if you want to attract high-yielding passengers. CI already operates the route daily with plenty of capacity to take the low-yielding passengers. Also ON's flight is normally pretty well stretched with their RPT ops, NF charters and other charters, I'm not sure they'd have the aircraft to operate a daily BNE-AKL.

Specifically looked at Dec 22 BNE/AKL & back 2 weeks later & then 3 days either side of those dates.

Nothing under AU$800 unless willing to fly Xmas Day.

CI was around AU$1200

Seems to be a bit cheaper AKL/BNE/AKL though


Sure, but what are you proposing? They operate BNE-AKL-BNE for 3 weeks over Christmas? If the market was so lucrative at that point, QF/VA/NZ would put a lot more extra capacity on it to absorb it. ON would need to establish contracts with a GHA in AKL and those costs alone would be expensive for such a short period of time.


The best solution would be for JQ or TT to enter BNE-AKL it currently lacks an LCC and is typically priced higher than SYD/MEL-AKL
 
Qantas16
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:04 am

zkncj wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
lessredtape wrote:
Specifically looked at Dec 22 BNE/AKL & back 2 weeks later & then 3 days either side of those dates.

Nothing under AU$800 unless willing to fly Xmas Day.

CI was around AU$1200

Seems to be a bit cheaper AKL/BNE/AKL though


Sure, but what are you proposing? They operate BNE-AKL-BNE for 3 weeks over Christmas? If the market was so lucrative at that point, QF/VA/NZ would put a lot more extra capacity on it to absorb it. ON would need to establish contracts with a GHA in AKL and those costs alone would be expensive for such a short period of time.


The best solution would be for JQ or TT to enter BNE-AKL it currently lacks an LCC and is typically priced higher than SYD/MEL-AKL


An LCC would probably go well, however, if it is priced higher than SYD/MEL than its unlikely VA/QF are going to want their LCC to change that... that's whats unfortunate for consumers about the current LCC setup in Oz! That being said, CI is normally the cheapest carrier and offers a wonderful service. Doesn't suit the no-bags, no-frills pax, but certainly offers a great deal for pax travelling with baggage.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7811
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:31 am

Start of NW schedules today.

-SQ A380 returns , SQ take the night SIN service again ops by 77W.
-KE 748 returns daily for the entire Season, Usually 3 months, didn’t come NW18/19
-LA reduce to 4 weekly from daily
-AA return daily 789
-UA back to daily 77W, 78J from December 3rd

-CX A350-1000 from mid November, 2 daily DEC-FEB, replaces 359/77W in NW18/19

-AC start DEC seasonal through March, 4 weekly 788

Several frequency/aircraft adjustments, CZ, CA, MH, QF, NZ.
 
User avatar
77west
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:52 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:10 pm

a7ala wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
a7ala wrote:

What a silly thing to say. It’s not “their problem”. It comes down to the commercial considerations of NZ given the relative strength at the negotiating table. NZ doesn’t really care if they get a few more connecting pax and as I said they probably don’t want them if they are going to NF so they will make as much money as they can.

How can NF suddenly magic up a good deal from NZ? If you are in competition with NZ either direct or (in the case of NF) destination competition you won’t be getting a good deal.

Yet you say that despite NZ not flying there... :roll:
NZ is always happy to have more domestic traffic. So yes it is NFs problem and if anything I’d say it’s more a case of them not wanting the relationship rather than not trying hard enough. So who’s making the “silly” comments? :roll:


NZ used to fly there of course and as i said Vanuatu competes as a holiday destination with Fiji raro etc etc so is competition. I’m sure vn would love to have access to better domestic fares. Why wouldn’t vn want a relationship with one of the biggest airlines in the pacific giving decent access to domestic NZ? They have a codeshare arrangement with qf in Australia which provides good domestic add ons there.

Anyway my original point was that the airline would be looking at other domestic New Zealand destinations (which they have said publicly) with the A220 and the size of the add on fares NZ currently charges shows there is probably merit.


So whats the chances of NZ resuming service? The airport at VLI has had a fair bit of (ongoing) upgrades and the runway issues are sorted from what I understand?
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
NZ516
Posts: 605
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:31 pm

ZKMCY Atr72-500 hasn't been flying since 16 October when it did NZ5781 ROT - CHC perhaps it's retired and along with MCX no more ATRs are in service in the old livery.
 
lessredtape
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:57 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:30 pm

Qantas16 wrote:
lessredtape wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:

Nothing is stopping them, they have an Australian AOC so could fly the route if they wished. But they won't. They aren't exactly well known for reliability and markets like BNE-AKL require a good, reliable schedule if you want to attract high-yielding passengers. CI already operates the route daily with plenty of capacity to take the low-yielding passengers. Also ON's flight is normally pretty well stretched with their RPT ops, NF charters and other charters, I'm not sure they'd have the aircraft to operate a daily BNE-AKL.

Specifically looked at Dec 22 BNE/AKL & back 2 weeks later & then 3 days either side of those dates.

Nothing under AU$800 unless willing to fly Xmas Day.

CI was around AU$1200

Seems to be a bit cheaper AKL/BNE/AKL though


Sure, but what are you proposing? They operate BNE-AKL-BNE for 3 weeks over Christmas? If the market was so lucrative at that point, QF/VA/NZ would put a lot more extra capacity on it to absorb it. ON would need to establish contracts with a GHA in AKL and those costs alone would be expensive for such a short period of time.

Nauru aircraft already fly BNE/AKL 4 times a week via VLI. To me it seems the only difference flying direct BNE/AKL would be that it's not a lease to NF. Maybe I'm missing something ?
 
lessredtape
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:57 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:00 am

77west wrote:
a7ala wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Yet you say that despite NZ not flying there... :roll:
NZ is always happy to have more domestic traffic. So yes it is NFs problem and if anything I’d say it’s more a case of them not wanting the relationship rather than not trying hard enough. So who’s making the “silly” comments? :roll:


NZ used to fly there of course and as i said Vanuatu competes as a holiday destination with Fiji raro etc etc so is competition. I’m sure vn would love to have access to better domestic fares. Why wouldn’t vn want a relationship with one of the biggest airlines in the pacific giving decent access to domestic NZ? They have a codeshare arrangement with qf in Australia which provides good domestic add ons there.

Anyway my original point was that the airline would be looking at other domestic New Zealand destinations (which they have said publicly) with the A220 and the size of the add on fares NZ currently charges shows there is probably merit.


So whats the chances of NZ resuming service? The airport at VLI has had a fair bit of (ongoing) upgrades and the runway issues are sorted from what I understand?
would NZ want to compete against A220s?

Surely NF would do what FJ does out of NAN, ie. fly direct to AKL, WLG & CHC (NAN/AKL up to 8 times a week, 7 using A330/350s), NAN/WLG twice a week, NAN/CHC 3 times a week.
 
tu2130
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:41 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:30 am

Is it just me or is Air New Zealand adding more flights
NZ81 operated yesterday
Then came Osaka
whats next?????
Oh yeah
new york but that isnt till next yr
Air New Zealand. Proud to fly.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7811
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:38 am

tu2130 wrote:
Is it just me or is Air New Zealand adding more flights
NZ81 operated yesterday
Then came Osaka
whats next?????
Oh yeah
new york but that isnt till next yr


NZ81 is the retimed HKG flight, no more midnight departure.
KIX operates every summer, first flight yesterday.
ICN starts 23rd November.
Plenty of capacity increases DEC-FEB, ICN, TPE, ORD, NRT.
 
PA515
Posts: 1653
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:38 am

NZ516 wrote:
ZKMCY Atr72-500 hasn't been flying since 16 October when it did NZ5781 ROT - CHC perhaps it's retired and along with MCX no more ATRs are in service in the old livery.


ZK-MCY was showing on FR24 as back in service 28 Oct, but that has now changed to 29 Oct. Often happens with aircraft out for maintenance.

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-mcy

PA515
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7811
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:39 am

CX sent a 35K today, first visit on a commercial flight for any airline.

MH move back to a split schedule today, goes 8 weekly DEC-FEB.
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8428
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:43 am

With the BT A220 YL-AAS on Airbus demo charter to AKL and oceania over the coming days it would be nice for NZ and others to order (ideal for QF 717s too). They are thoroughly good aircraft to fly for passenger comfort and they have great range. I believe NF is expecting them in June, but they still have a fair bit of work to get training completed for pilots/engineers and ground handling as they are of course the first. But domestically and regionally it could open a lot of marginal/secondary markets
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Gasman
Posts: 2203
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:34 am

jerseyewr777 wrote:
lessredtape wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
I never doubted that NZ would choose EWR, solely on the basis that to do otherwise would make EWR solely a point-to-point destination with little if any feed from the UA network. Given that their whole US strategy is based on the UA relationship, it couldn’t have been any other way.

Next port DEN? Or maybe even LAS (my preference, though this would be a point-to-point market)?
DEN has been mentioned many times over past few years. I heard from a contact in Colorado that it was happening a few years back.

Make sense to operate to DEN seasonally in northern winter due to the huge number of Australians/Kiwis skiing in Colorado, as it's now incredibly cheap. Saw family lift tickets 2 weeks ago for AU$50 for 1 adult & 4 kids total.

Sure beats transiting at LAX or changing terminals anywhere else. AKL international to international is so easy. Talk of FJ doing something with their new A350 beyond the west coast USA.


Denver? They can route those passengers through other United hubs. My guess the only North American destination left that they will serve will be YYZ.


I agree. NYC non stop makes a certain amount of sense. The Western seaboard stopover, followed with that last 5 hour flight to NYC is brutal. I'm sure the new non stop service will generate traffic and revenue that wouldn't otherwise exist. And that's not even factoring traffic in from Australia which is bound to be significant.

But if there is a single person right now going "well I *would* go to DEN more if only there was a non stop service" I would be astonished. All a DEN service would do is cannabalise traffic off LAX.
  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos