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ScottB
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:45 pm

PHLCVGAMTK wrote:
No, this feels much more calculated than is benig given credit for. Adding frequencies to LATAM hubs from MIA gives AA the edge that frequency provides, while LA+DL have to compete with that while at the same time splitting traffic between MIA and ATL. No wonder LA unloaded their A350s to DL; there's no version of their route network going forwardd that fills them anymore. And AA has a lot of modern narrowbodies on order with which to increase frequencies even further, or develop secondary routes at their leisure (not that I expect it will take them any time at all). I still wouldn't be happy this week in AA's shoes, but they're playing their hand well.


Unless AA knew well in advance that LATAM was planning on exiting oneworld as part of a deep commercial alliance with DL, there's no way they were planning on frequency increases to LATAM hubs in order to compete with their erstwhile partner. It feels far more like a kneejerk reaction to punish their now-competitor. A calculated reaction would address those secondary markets you mentioned because LATAM offers access to those markets while AA cannot at present.

Honestly, I think hiving off the A350s to DL is partly a fleet simplification move. The initial A350 order was made by TAM long before the merger; given the likely uses for A350s in the route networks of the various LATAM subsidiaries, it probably makes more sense to just standardize on the 787-8/9/10. It also conserves capital for LATAM at a time when doing this deal is partly about a capital raise and partly about getting a joint venture that will pass competition review. JJ already has aircraft as large as any of the A350s on order -- they've got 10 379-seat 773ERs in the fleet and those are staying.
 
RCS763AV
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:56 pm

OB1504 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
With LIM/SCL/GRU, all AA is doing is adding service back. AA operated these additional flights in the last, before reducing service, perhaps not coincidently, not long before applying for ATI with LATAM.


All AA did was upgrade the second daily MIA-SCL and third daily MIA-GRU flights from seasonal to year round. MIA-GRU was even running 4 flights a day at one point a few years ago. I wonder if they’ll make the second MIA-GIG and third MIA-EZE flights year round too. I also wonder if MIA-BOG will see a frequency boost or aircraft upgauge from the current 2 daily A319s. I can’t recall the last time AA operated MIA-LIM three times a day, though.

If AA really wanted to be competitive, they would get rid of the ancient 757s and 767s on their Latin American routes. Their strategy of dumping the worst equipment on MIA–Latin America because there was no serious competition just came back to bite them.


Which routes still remain flown with 757s and 763s? I know some GIG and SCL flights are 763s but any others? The 757 to BSB/COR?

BTW BOG-MIA is 3x daily on A319. I think we might see a daily frequency added or an upgauge of equipment. AV is flying MIA-BOG 4x daily now with a couple of flights on A330. I also think LATAM will be re entering the market soon or once the JV with DL is up and running. GYE should also come back as was said earlier.

And speaking of Bolivia and Belo Horizonte (and the others), I do think they'll come back soonish once the economy picks up in the southern cone (the north of the continent isn't doing too badly).
 
BNAMealer
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:17 pm

flyby519 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
The BOS capacity dump continues!

It never ceases to amaze me how much carriers are willing to dump in BOS despite yields being trash.

Is this simply a case of everyone ganging up on B6 to put them out of business?


Possibly. I suspect AA sees this as a win-win. They can jab at DL and kick B6 at the same time. Like others have stated, AA has a strong ff base in BOS and LHR is a strong performer for oneworld. Seems like an easy add.


I doubt the market can sustain all this capacity long term. BOS is incredibly oversaturated right now.
 
Ishrion
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:17 pm

RCS763AV wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
With LIM/SCL/GRU, all AA is doing is adding service back. AA operated these additional flights in the last, before reducing service, perhaps not coincidently, not long before applying for ATI with LATAM.


All AA did was upgrade the second daily MIA-SCL and third daily MIA-GRU flights from seasonal to year round. MIA-GRU was even running 4 flights a day at one point a few years ago. I wonder if they’ll make the second MIA-GIG and third MIA-EZE flights year round too. I also wonder if MIA-BOG will see a frequency boost or aircraft upgauge from the current 2 daily A319s. I can’t recall the last time AA operated MIA-LIM three times a day, though.

If AA really wanted to be competitive, they would get rid of the ancient 757s and 767s on their Latin American routes. Their strategy of dumping the worst equipment on MIA–Latin America because there was no serious competition just came back to bite them.


Which routes still remain flown with 757s and 763s? I know some GIG and SCL flights are 763s but any others? The 757 to BSB/COR?

BTW BOG-MIA is 3x daily on A319. I think we might see a daily frequency added or an upgauge of equipment. AV is flying MIA-BOG 4x daily now with a couple of flights on A330. I also think LATAM will be re entering the market soon or once the JV with DL is up and running. GYE should also come back as was said earlier.

And speaking of Bolivia and Belo Horizonte (and the others), I do think they'll come back soonish once the economy picks up in the southern cone (the north of the continent isn't doing too badly).


MIA-GIG is on a 772, MIA-COR is on a 763, MIA-BSB is on a 752. I don't believe MIA-SCL has been on the 763 for a while? It's been on the 772 for a while, at least.

I think GYE and LIM are the only routes that are flown with the 763 other than COR...
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:18 pm

I think all this ‘capacity’ at BOS is testimony to the area’s balanced strength as a market, and its longevity. Med/Bio, high tech, education all coalesce into a demographically strong region whose people no longer want to be ‘told’ they have to connect at JFK to go somewhere. BOS will never have global dots connected like JFK always will, but since 2012 (when the 787 debuted), Logan has been on a rocket. The region can support the seats it is getting.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
hondah35
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:18 pm

Ummmm, of course its a knee jerk reaction. It's called punish LATAM and Delta as much as possible by flooding their prime routes with capacity. It's highly doubtful that AA will add service to secondary and tertiary South American markets, because those routes are certifiable stinkers. They barely worked during the commodities boom and don't work now.
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:21 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
The BOS capacity dump continues!

It never ceases to amaze me how much carriers are willing to dump in BOS despite yields being trash.

Is this simply a case of everyone ganging up on B6 to put them out of business?


Possibly. I suspect AA sees this as a win-win. They can jab at DL and kick B6 at the same time. Like others have stated, AA has a strong ff base in BOS and LHR is a strong performer for oneworld. Seems like an easy add.


I doubt the market can sustain all this capacity long term. BOS is incredibly oversaturated right now.


I said above that the BOS market is a VERY demographically strong one, and it can support what it has been getting in terms of seats. The arrows lately have been aimed at Norwegian, and that may be the only retrenchment we see.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
dcajet
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:30 pm

RCS763AV wrote:

Which routes still remain flown with 757s and 763s? I know some GIG and SCL flights are 763s but any others? The 757 to BSB/COR?



Both COR and MVD are flown with the 767. The 757 does not have the legs for either. GIG and SCL do not see the 767 any longer. BSB is with the 757, LIM sees it from DFW and MIA if I am not mistaken.

The 767 are on their way out from AA. They are terribly uncompetitive and only make sense on routes such as COR or MVD or some European routes ex PHL, where AA is the only carrier flying nonstop to the US.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
iyerhari
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:33 pm

spinotter wrote:
So you mean that DL is now #2 behind B6 in ASMs in BOS? Hadn't heard that. In the Wikipedia article for Logan, July 2018 through June 2019 has B6 with 32.05%, AA with 19.24%. and DL with 14.65% If DL is now ahead, that's quite the switch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_International_Airport#Airline_market_share

AS per Massport, DL overtook AA sometime early 2019 and with the additions, they would continue to surpass AA. B6 still has significant advantage over DL and we will have to see how far they can grow. I do not think DL would be able to take B6 vantage as they have more destinations and more number of gates unless Massport is able to magically get more gates for DL - even if that happens somehow, it will take a longtime to fruition. Massport unfortunately does not release detailed stats so i have to rely on the department that pulls the stats to go by their word.

I personally do not think BOS is over yet despite so many comments of becoming over-saturated. This has been stated several times and with the exception of few retrenchments (such as AB, AM etc.) all the other carriers have still stuck. Vs4ever and tphuang regularly post detailed stats in the BOS thread.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:40 pm

Honestly, don't BOS-LHR being back as having much importance.

Its all part of the IAG JV, so equipment and flying can be moved back and forth as needed between partners. At end its ultimately what works for the JV best, not individual AA decision.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:50 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
flyby519 wrote:

Possibly. I suspect AA sees this as a win-win. They can jab at DL and kick B6 at the same time. Like others have stated, AA has a strong ff base in BOS and LHR is a strong performer for oneworld. Seems like an easy add.


I doubt the market can sustain all this capacity long term. BOS is incredibly oversaturated right now.


I said above that the BOS market is a VERY demographically strong one, and it can support what it has been getting in terms of seats. The arrows lately have been aimed at Norwegian, and that may be the only retrenchment we see.


Strong or not there is way too much capacity on Boston-Europe. It's not sustainable. This is not unique to Boston, though. San Francisco, LA, Miami, Chicago - even smaller markets like Tampa, Denver and Austin - there is way too much.
a.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:57 pm

There might be too much Y capacity BOS-Europe, but definitely not J capacity.
The J/Y ratio is basically wrong. Need more J, less Y.
 
jagraham
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:02 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
United and Delta are so tiny in Latin America compared to AA. We can't deny that. They own that market.


What do you think AA's Latin America passenger revenue is compared to UA and Delta? 300%? 400%?

From the annual reports, calendar year 2018, $millions:


AA, $5125 LatAm, $1602 Pacific

DL, $2888 million LatAm, $2543 Pacific

UA, $3460 LatAm, $5188 Pacific

So why does AA even try to compete TPAC when its revenue is ~1/4 of United's?


AA's bankruptcy strategy was to leave most international flying to BA and JL. And get passengers to LHR and (then) NRT.
AA is now trying to get back to international flying, but the slot squeezes at major international airports means that this rebuilding is slow.
But AA is competing as best as it can. As witnessed by the 77W purchases, which allow upgauging some international flights.

What's more impressive is that AA generates as much revenue flying LATAM as UA does flying TPAC.
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:06 pm

boeing773er wrote:
It was also announced Level will be flying between ORY-BOS.


http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

"And there's more good news for customers flying out of Boston, as International Airline Group (IAG) subsidiary LEVEL will operate three weekly flights from BOS to Paris Orly Airport (ORY) beginning March 31. The Atlantic Joint Business continues to build a bigger and better network next summer by adding an additional 125,000 seats per month across the Atlantic with six new routes, in addition to the 12 routes already launched this year."

LEVEL is going to be part of the AJB?
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:56 pm

WingsOfLove wrote:
boeing773er wrote:
It was also announced Level will be flying between ORY-BOS.


http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

"And there's more good news for customers flying out of Boston, as International Airline Group (IAG) subsidiary LEVEL will operate three weekly flights from BOS to Paris Orly Airport (ORY) beginning March 31. The Atlantic Joint Business continues to build a bigger and better network next summer by adding an additional 125,000 seats per month across the Atlantic with six new routes, in addition to the 12 routes already launched this year."

LEVEL is going to be part of the AJB?


LEVEL has already been part of the JBA.
a.
 
jfk777
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:03 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
United and Delta are so tiny in Latin America compared to AA. We can't deny that. They own that market.


What do you think AA's Latin America passenger revenue is compared to UA and Delta? 300%? 400%?

From the annual reports, calendar year 2018, $millions:


AA, $5125 LatAm, $1602 Pacific

DL, $2888 million LatAm, $2543 Pacific

UA, $3460 LatAm, $5188 Pacific

So why does AA even try to compete TPAC when its revenue is ~1/4 of United's?


United's Asia Pacific revenue should be huge since they purchased an existing business with 17 airplanes including flights to Australia from Pan American. United also has decent Latin American revenues since they merged with Continental which had a decent Latin division plus Pan Am's Latin part.

AA has large Latin revenues because, just like UA in Asia, they purchased the largest existing business to Latin America from Eastern. In Asia AA has had to build one route at a time, first from DFW and later from LAX.

The real question should be why are Delta's Asian revenue only half United's considering hey merged with Northwest which also had a huge Asia Pacific operation.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:08 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
Great to see AA standing up to DL! I sure wish there was better S.A. service from the west coast...it's a haul to go all the way to MIA to then go south. Hint hint!!


They do fly LAX-EZE.
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Ishrion
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:15 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Great to see AA standing up to DL! I sure wish there was better S.A. service from the west coast...it's a haul to go all the way to MIA to then go south. Hint hint!!


They do fly LAX-EZE.


And LAX-GRU.
 
Ishrion
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:18 pm

This may sound insane, but does anyone think AA launching AUS-LHR seems more probable now? Going up against Delta at Boston...

From that ViewFromTheWing article, it noted AA could launch TATL service on its own metal out of AUS to LHR... as AA intends to remain the largest carrier out of AUS.

However, slots aren’t available so I’m doubting this either way... unless AA could replace a certain number of BA frequencies.
 
DDR
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:19 pm

jumbojet wrote:
ScottB wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:

I doubt it is a knee jerk. They knew for a time the LATAM deal would not move ahead. Route planning isn't done at the snap of a finger.


Announcing flights 15 months or more out with a nebulous start state ("winter 2020") sounds like a knee jerk reaction. Even the additional LIM flight feels that way since it's probably going to use a currently-idle 737-MAX8.


Not only that but more importantly, AA needs flights to the secondary and tertiary cities in S.A., not additional frequencies to the major ones. This is definitely a knee jerk reaction.

Also, the combined DL and LATAM will become #1 in the N.A. S.A. market.



Dude, give it up. AA will always be number 1 to S.America no matter how many airlines your precious DL partners with. And DL will NEVER have the amount of metal to S. America that AA has. No wonder DL pilots get upset regarding codeshare flights. DL loves to send their passengers to airlines that are owned by, and operated by, foreign carriers. Cheap labor anyone?
 
Sydscott
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:23 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Will AA venture back to markets its dropped such as ASU, LPB, CNF, CEB,POA, REC, SSA, etc which today can be reached with LATAM connection?

AA will also need to invest in ground facilities again - AAdmirals Clubs have closed in cities like BOG, SCL, LIM in favor of partner facilities.


A great first round of additions into South America by AA with no doubt more to come.

Agree on the Admirals Clubs, they will need to roll our more and upgrade the ones they have. I used the SCL one a few times before it closed and it always reminded me of a Bingo Hall at a retirement Village. So hopefully they come back into the market with hugely upgraded offerings to support their flights.
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:54 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
LEVEL has already been part of the JBA.


thank you

guess they want nobody to know ;)

http://www.oneworld.com doesn't list LEVEL and http://www.flylevel.com has no Iberia Plus / Avios link
Last edited by WingsOfLove on Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
BNAMealer
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:55 pm

Ishrion wrote:
This may sound insane, but does anyone think AA launching AUS-LHR seems more probable now? Going up against Delta at Boston...

From that ViewFromTheWing article, it noted AA could launch TATL service on its own metal out of AUS to LHR... as AA intends to remain the largest carrier out of AUS.

However, slots aren’t available so I’m doubting this either way... unless AA could replace a certain number of BA frequencies.


No, it's not probable. BA already sends a daily 747/77W (depending on the time of the year), why on earth would AA waste a slot on AUS-LHR when DFW is right literally up the road? What would it gain them?

VS entering AUS-LHR is more probable.
 
skipness1E
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:56 pm

acavpics wrote:
Why are they bringing back BOS-LHR? I thought such point to point flying was a loss maker.
Is this just a 1-off or could it be a hint at a revival of the BOS focus city that AA once had?

It’s point to hub not point to point, LHR is a Oneworld hub.
 
skipness1E
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:58 pm

NYCAAer wrote:
I’m not so sure that AA is using a new slot for BOS-LHR. The flight numbers that are going to be used for the flights are 108 and 109, which are currently used for one of the daily LAX-LHR flights. Which makes me wonder if AA will go 1x daily for the summer season of 2020 on LAX-LHR. Unless they plan on using a different flight number.

The LAX service is actually using the long time LHR-BOS flight nos.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:11 am

Thoughts:

1. When was the last time AA has good news for Bos and Jfk in one press release?

2. Mia is to fight Latam/DL...their are no coincidences in life

3. Fco...who would think that is profitable out of JFK for them?

4. They are wasting time in BOS. Take your hub flying and be happy
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:18 am

What’s the LAX flight being renumbered to in losing 108/109?
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flyby519
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:11 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Thoughts:

1. When was the last time AA has good news for Bos and Jfk in one press release?



I was thinking the same thing. Did I time travel back to 2005?? :rotfl:
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:14 am

skipness1E wrote:
NYCAAer wrote:
I’m not so sure that AA is using a new slot for BOS-LHR. The flight numbers that are going to be used for the flights are 108 and 109, which are currently used for one of the daily LAX-LHR flights. Which makes me wonder if AA will go 1x daily for the summer season of 2020 on LAX-LHR. Unless they plan on using a different flight number.

The LAX service is actually using the long time LHR-BOS flight nos.


It's a slot that AA acquired not long ago and is currently leased to Finnair. It is not replacing the 2nd LAXLHR.
a.
 
FSDan
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:32 am

The BOS-LHR resumption is a surprise to me, but I do think it makes sense. BOS-LHR is obviously a huge market for the JV, and there's likely no capacity at Terminal E for BA to add any of their own frequencies at this point. AA should be able to unload international arrivals at E (likely before the thick of the rush given that the article mentions a morning LHR departure), and then tow to a hardstand and eventually to Terminal B for departure.

The frequency increase on MIA-LIM also makes sense. With the 763s slowly retiring, AA needed to either 1) add a frequency, or 2) upgauge the existing 763 frequency to something bigger. It sounds like they're going with 3x daily 752s instead of 1x 763 + 1x 752. The SCL and GRU increases are way in the future, which I agree probably indicates this is AA's play for getting some good press in the region after last week's DL+LA bombshell.

Nice to see the extended seasons on DFW-DUB, ORD-BCN, and JFK-FCO.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
BNAMealer
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:35 am

MAH4546 wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:

I doubt the market can sustain all this capacity long term. BOS is incredibly oversaturated right now.


I said above that the BOS market is a VERY demographically strong one, and it can support what it has been getting in terms of seats. The arrows lately have been aimed at Norwegian, and that may be the only retrenchment we see.


Strong or not there is way too much capacity on Boston-Europe. It's not sustainable. This is not unique to Boston, though. San Francisco, LA, Miami, Chicago - even smaller markets like Tampa, Denver and Austin - there is way too much.


How are some of those markets at overcapacity like Boston? With the exception of San Francisco and maybe Miami, I would argue the other cities you mentioned have just the right amount for their markets right now.
 
jumbojet
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:20 am

DDR wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
ScottB wrote:




Dude, give it up. AA will always be number 1 to S.America no matter how many airlines your precious DL partners with. And DL will NEVER have the amount of metal to S. America that AA has. No wonder DL pilots get upset regarding codeshare flights. DL loves to send their passengers to airlines that are owned by, and operated by, foreign carriers. Cheap labor anyone?


With a combined DL and LATAM, those two airlines combined will make them #1 in that region. Its fact. As for the amount of actual metal to S.A. who cares. DL/LATAM will eventually be #1. Im not saying that because its how I feel or its my opinion. Its been printed in quite a few articles. Oh, and you can drop the dude, its kinda condescending.
 
jumbojet
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:36 am

Its one thing for AA to ad routes, its another thing to force costumers to endure a 3 day delay. It would really behoove AA to treat its Latin American fliers better than this. I hear that AA is even denying reimbursement to those that, after the 2nd day, purchased a return ticket home on their own dime. Route flown was on a 757, LIM to DFW

https://simpleflying.com/american-airli ... day-delay/
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:39 am

MAH4546 wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:

I doubt the market can sustain all this capacity long term. BOS is incredibly oversaturated right now.


I said above that the BOS market is a VERY demographically strong one, and it can support what it has been getting in terms of seats. The arrows lately have been aimed at Norwegian, and that may be the only retrenchment we see.


Strong or not there is way too much capacity on Boston-Europe. It's not sustainable. This is not unique to Boston, though. San Francisco, LA, Miami, Chicago - even smaller markets like Tampa, Denver and Austin - there is way too much.


BOS-Europe appears quite lucrative though
Image
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TTailedTiger
Posts: 2531
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:42 am

BroadwayLimited wrote:
It’s called panic. They are being reactive, not proactive.


It's called being sensible. They know they are losing market share soon and are doing what they can to lessen the blow. If you received an eviction notice would you start looking for another place to live and leave on your own or would you wait for the sheriff to come and haul you out?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26222
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:43 am

Midwestindy wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:

I said above that the BOS market is a VERY demographically strong one, and it can support what it has been getting in terms of seats. The arrows lately have been aimed at Norwegian, and that may be the only retrenchment we see.


Strong or not there is way too much capacity on Boston-Europe. It's not sustainable. This is not unique to Boston, though. San Francisco, LA, Miami, Chicago - even smaller markets like Tampa, Denver and Austin - there is way too much.


BOS-Europe appears quite lucrative though
Image


Sure, especially the local market. A plane from Boston to London is in the air for less time than a plane from Boston to San Francisco. It’s a short flight but the fares are likely right in line with LA, SF, Miami, Chicago etc. if not even higher. But that’s the local market and it’a not filling all that capacity. Junk yield connections are, both from other U.S. cities and from Boston beyond to places like the Middle East and India where fares are dirt cheap for long distances.
a.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2850
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:55 am

BNAMealer wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
This may sound insane, but does anyone think AA launching AUS-LHR seems more probable now? Going up against Delta at Boston...

From that ViewFromTheWing article, it noted AA could launch TATL service on its own metal out of AUS to LHR... as AA intends to remain the largest carrier out of AUS.

However, slots aren’t available so I’m doubting this either way... unless AA could replace a certain number of BA frequencies.


No, it's not probable. BA already sends a daily 747/77W (depending on the time of the year), why on earth would AA waste a slot on AUS-LHR when DFW is right literally up the road? What would it gain them?

VS entering AUS-LHR is more probable.


Yet, AA announces BOS-LHR complimenting BA's 4x daily service when both JFK and PHL are down the road.

Here's the article: https://viewfromthewing.com/as-delta-ma ... ure-there/

He also says they won’t fly from cities like Austin to European cities outside of partner hubs. It’s possible they could fly from a spoke city to London Heathrow as though they do with Raleigh Durham but it won’t be to cities like Frankfurt or Paris.


This move to increase MIA-South America and re-launch BOS-LHR is obviously aimed towards Delta. Adding AUS-LHR (not replacing BA's frequencies) is obviously overcapacity, but AA is "going to be the largest hub carrier in Austin for a long time to come." This would fend off potential Delta/SkyTeam expansion.
 
grbauc
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:57 am

BNAMealer wrote:
The never ending capacity dump in BOS continues.

It never ceases to amaze me how much carriers pile on in BOS, for what though? Yields have to be rock bottom.

Is this simply a case of everyone ganging up on B6 to put it out of business?



yea poor B-6. For them being the youngest carrier they have a pretty nice foot print in BOS and just like LAX its a nice market However much smaller to be in and enjoy the options and fares. B-6 will be fine. AA has a long and old history at BOS>
 
N983AN
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:15 am

Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:58 am

skipness1E wrote:
NYCAAer wrote:
I’m not so sure that AA is using a new slot for BOS-LHR. The flight numbers that are going to be used for the flights are 108 and 109, which are currently used for one of the daily LAX-LHR flights. Which makes me wonder if AA will go 1x daily for the summer season of 2020 on LAX-LHR. Unless they plan on using a different flight number.

The LAX service is actually using the long time LHR-BOS flight nos.


Yep.

The daylight flight was AA 156/155 and the short lived evening flight circa 2009-10 AA 124/125.

Good to have LHR back on the 777.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2304
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:18 am

Interesting.

The BOS-LHR slot was supposed/rumored to be for a third daily CLT-LHR flight.
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BNAMealer
Posts: 819
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Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:27 am

Ishrion wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
This may sound insane, but does anyone think AA launching AUS-LHR seems more probable now? Going up against Delta at Boston...

From that ViewFromTheWing article, it noted AA could launch TATL service on its own metal out of AUS to LHR... as AA intends to remain the largest carrier out of AUS.

However, slots aren’t available so I’m doubting this either way... unless AA could replace a certain number of BA frequencies.


No, it's not probable. BA already sends a daily 747/77W (depending on the time of the year), why on earth would AA waste a slot on AUS-LHR when DFW is right literally up the road? What would it gain them?

VS entering AUS-LHR is more probable.


Yet, AA announces BOS-LHR complimenting BA's 4x daily service when both JFK and PHL are down the road.

Here's the article: https://viewfromthewing.com/as-delta-ma ... ure-there/

He also says they won’t fly from cities like Austin to European cities outside of partner hubs. It’s possible they could fly from a spoke city to London Heathrow as though they do with Raleigh Durham but it won’t be to cities like Frankfurt or Paris.


This move to increase MIA-South America and re-launch BOS-LHR is obviously aimed towards Delta. Adding AUS-LHR (not replacing BA's frequencies) is obviously overcapacity, but AA is "going to be the largest hub carrier in Austin for a long time to come." This would fend off potential Delta/SkyTeam expansion.


Just because they say they are going to be the largest hub carrier in AUS for a long time to come doesn’t mean they are. Given their track record, anything AA says about nonhub cities at this point is empty words. As long as they only fly to hubs from AUS, they won’t gain a ton of new marketshare.

Comparing AA doing BOS-LHR to a hypothetical AUS-LHR is apples to oranges. AUS isn’t as big of a market and AA’s DFW megahub is right down the road (bigger than their NYC and PHL hubs combined).

I predict DL will gradually win over the AUS marketshare. KL announcing AUS-AMS is just the beginning. Given DL’s gap in Texas, I suspect they are eyeing AUS as their foothold for the region. Along with new domestic adds, I suspect ICN, CDG and LHR (via VS) will be added down the road.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 819
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:30 am

grbauc wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
The never ending capacity dump in BOS continues.

It never ceases to amaze me how much carriers pile on in BOS, for what though? Yields have to be rock bottom.

Is this simply a case of everyone ganging up on B6 to put it out of business?



yea poor B-6. For them being the youngest carrier they have a pretty nice foot print in BOS and just like LAX its a nice market However much smaller to be in and enjoy the options and fares. B-6 will be fine. AA has a long and old history at BOS>


My comment had nothing to do with B6 per say, it was just commenting on how ridiculous this BOS capacity adding spree is getting.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3796
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:35 am

USAirALB wrote:
Interesting.

The BOS-LHR slot was supposed/rumored to be for a third daily CLT-LHR flight.


CLT in no way needs a 3rd LHR flight. Im surprised by BOS - if AA was going to launch a non-hub LHR flight I thought it would be IAD.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2304
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:37 am

usflyer msp wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Interesting.

The BOS-LHR slot was supposed/rumored to be for a third daily CLT-LHR flight.


CLT in no way needs a 3rd LHR flight. Im surprised by BOS - if AA was going to launch a non-hub LHR flight I thought it would be IAD.

I tend to agree (on both accounts of CLT and IAD), but a pretty-reliable source mentioned the slot being used for CLT a number of times: https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1178740182843101189
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:40 am

Brickell305 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Yeh, because punishing a competitor is more important than making money when you've got the highest debt load and lowest margins among your competitor set.

They're not going to drive LATAM out of Miami - the O&D market is too large. They're not going to discourage DL from going through with the announced deal - it's strategic.


Exactly. LATAM is not going anywhere.


Latam is now focusing in diversifying and I believe with DL their focus is not only MIA.
I believe AA action will just drop yields on such routes as the elasticity is just not there outside of peak season without fare adjustments.

Looking forward for those USD 1,500 business class fares in the near future!
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Detroit313
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:14 am

The press release says to stay tuned for more seasonal extensions announced in the coming weeks. I wonder which ones.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1469
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:25 am

BNAMealer wrote:
grbauc wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
The never ending capacity dump in BOS continues.

It never ceases to amaze me how much carriers pile on in BOS, for what though? Yields have to be rock bottom.

Is this simply a case of everyone ganging up on B6 to put it out of business?



yea poor B-6. For them being the youngest carrier they have a pretty nice foot print in BOS and just like LAX its a nice market However much smaller to be in and enjoy the options and fares. B-6 will be fine. AA has a long and old history at BOS>


My comment had nothing to do with B6 per say, it was just commenting on how ridiculous this BOS capacity adding spree is getting.



My apologies. I still believe BOS is like a Mini LAX in that its a great point for a lot of international airlines. Has someone else mentioned BA appears to not have room to add a flight there but AA does JV makes is neutral both carries win so maybe that's the story. I'm 100% positive this move has been in the works for a while no knee jerk reactions that some think.
 
Jomar777
Posts: 559
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:30 am

Highly expected. The issues in regards tot he LATAM (failed) tie-in were not new and AA needs to cater for their customer demand and market share. Not a knee jerk or panic move - just an adjustment of their Latin American network.
What I expect to come soon is a tie in with GOL since this would make their coverage for South America much better.
I still wonder what KL and AF, for example, will do with their SA coverage since they relied on GOL and, now that DL will effectivelly hand GOL to other alliances, they will might have to reconsider although they may certainly use LATAM as a partner if it joins Sky Service.
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 681
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:03 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
If AA really wanted to be competitive, they would get rid of the ancient 757s and 767s on their Latin American routes. Their strategy of dumping the worst equipment on MIA–Latin America because there was no serious competition just came back to bite them.


I do agree this is key, their 763s to some Latin American destinations is by far the least competitive product.



And they are doing just this, that's been the plan all along to retire these aircraft and replace them with new deliveries. In the meantime its common sense (apparently not common on A.net) to use your older aircraft on your lowest yield routes!


BTW LHR is an AA HUB strategically speaking, and LHR-BOS is a Hub to Focus city so it makes a lot of sense. They could theoretically add flying to any US city from LHR and its still HUB flying, I imagine they have a few more US markets that make sense going forward and possible some Europe, Africa or Asia flying from LHR.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: AA beefs up MIA - South America flights, returns to BOS-LHR and extends European schedules

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:42 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
BOS-Europe appears quite lucrative though
Image


Norwegian is #2 with respect to pax, but their yield is one-third of that of BA?? How did they do that?? :?

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