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klm617
Posts: 5238
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:23 pm

A60Stock wrote:
Logic is in the eye of the beholder. Detroit (to my certain knowledge) has not much in the way of commercial links with Dublin whereas Austin (for example) would have more. Can you enlighten us as to why it is the next logical add?


Detroit is the largest metropolitan area with no European LCC service. It would have draw from the entire state of Michigan and Ohio plus from the Eastern part of Indiana and the Western part of Ontario. It is home to one of the wealthiest counties in the Untied state and there is a lot of disposable income in South Eastern Michigan alone. Detroit lacks coinvent service one stop service to most of England without having to back track in most cases at least an hour to reach those destinations. Michigan is a major tourist state in the Midwest with it's Caribbean like beaches in the summer and skiing in the winter. The Traverse City area is growing in leaps and bounds as far as tourism goes. Detroit is a very cost effective airport to fly into with hardly any air traffic congestion creating no significant flight delays. WOW Air was very successful in Detroit and Aer Lingus could build on what WOW Air did in Detroit by creating a low coast European option in the market. This year alone LH is almost doubling it's presence in Detroit thus showing evidence that there is room for growth in Detroit. The 2020 North American auto show debuts in June of 2020 thus creating more tourism options to capitalize on for Aer Lingus. Plus there is the anna.aero article they did on DTW-DUB as one of unserved routes with the most potential so there are tons of reasons as to why DTW should be the next Aer Lingus add in North America.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
Posts: 3049
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:41 pm

klm617 wrote:
A60Stock wrote:
Logic is in the eye of the beholder. Detroit (to my certain knowledge) has not much in the way of commercial links with Dublin whereas Austin (for example) would have more. Can you enlighten us as to why it is the next logical add?


Detroit is the largest metropolitan area with no European LCC service. It would have draw from the entire state of Michigan and Ohio plus from the Eastern part of Indiana and the Western part of Ontario. It is home to one of the wealthiest counties in the Untied state and there is a lot of disposable income in South Eastern Michigan alone. Detroit lacks coinvent service one stop service to most of England without having to back track in most cases at least an hour to reach those destinations. Michigan is a major tourist state in the Midwest with it's Caribbean like beaches in the summer and skiing in the winter. The Traverse City area is growing in leaps and bounds as far as tourism goes. Detroit is a very cost effective airport to fly into with hardly any air traffic congestion creating no significant flight delays. WOW Air was very successful in Detroit and Aer Lingus could build on what WOW Air did in Detroit by creating a low coast European option in the market. This year alone LH is almost doubling it's presence in Detroit thus showing evidence that there is room for growth in Detroit. The 2020 North American auto show debuts in June of 2020 thus creating more tourism options to capitalize on for Aer Lingus. Plus there is the anna.aero article they did on DTW-DUB as one of unserved routes with the most potential so there are tons of reasons as to why DTW should be the next Aer Lingus add in North America.


Nothing. Not one thing that you've said there, ties Detroit to Dublin... without a local market to speak of the route is not viable. That might at least partially explain why DTW has been overlooked in favor of MSP, etc., who have much larger local markets.
 
Clydenairways
Posts: 1311
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:27 am

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:11 pm

Another factor to consider as well is that the urgency now to expand new North American cities quickly has lessened a bit.
The rapid expansion seen in the last few years has now seen the withdrawal of Norwegian, collapse of WOW and subsequent slow down to Icelandair competition.
EI can now do what it wants at a more steady pace with a lot of this new wave competition mostly out of the picture.
 
A60Stock
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 5:42 pm

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:25 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
A60Stock wrote:
Logic is in the eye of the beholder. Detroit (to my certain knowledge) has not much in the way of commercial links with Dublin whereas Austin (for example) would have more. Can you enlighten us as to why it is the next logical add?


Detroit is the largest metropolitan area with no European LCC service. It would have draw from the entire state of Michigan and Ohio plus from the Eastern part of Indiana and the Western part of Ontario. It is home to one of the wealthiest counties in the Untied state and there is a lot of disposable income in South Eastern Michigan alone. Detroit lacks coinvent service one stop service to most of England without having to back track in most cases at least an hour to reach those destinations. Michigan is a major tourist state in the Midwest with it's Caribbean like beaches in the summer and skiing in the winter. The Traverse City area is growing in leaps and bounds as far as tourism goes. Detroit is a very cost effective airport to fly into with hardly any air traffic congestion creating no significant flight delays. WOW Air was very successful in Detroit and Aer Lingus could build on what WOW Air did in Detroit by creating a low coast European option in the market. This year alone LH is almost doubling it's presence in Detroit thus showing evidence that there is room for growth in Detroit. The 2020 North American auto show debuts in June of 2020 thus creating more tourism options to capitalize on for Aer Lingus. Plus there is the anna.aero article they did on DTW-DUB as one of unserved routes with the most potential so there are tons of reasons as to why DTW should be the next Aer Lingus add in North America.


Nothing. Not one thing that you've said there, ties Detroit to Dublin... without a local market to speak of the route is not viable. That might at least partially explain why DTW has been overlooked in favor of MSP, etc., who have much larger local markets.


Just because somewhere is the largest unserved market in terms of an LCC service doesn't immediately make it a candidate. NWI is probably the largest unserved market to Ireland in the U.K. but yet the economics of it aren't there - the agricultural and elderly care industries won't pay for LM or EI to fly the route. In order to make long-haul low-cost pay, you do need business class and all the corporate bookings that go with it. GM has pulled out of Europe, Ford is struggling in Europe and there is not much else that comes to mind to fill the cabin up front to subsidise your economy ticket on this route. As you have stated, LH has as near as makes no difference doubled its presence in DTW; does that not take EI's slice of pie for corporate bookings?

WOW Air has folded, Norwegian is publicly known to be struggling and these are/were largely for the leisure market. Apart from to places like MCO, the leisure market is not lucrative enough to be enticing at all.
Types flown: A319, A320, B734, B738, B744, B77W and E195.
Airports flown to/from: DUB, JFK, LGW, LHR, LIS, LTN, PDL, SEN and STN.
Airlines flown with: AA, BA, BD, BE, EI, and FR.
Next flights: W9 LTN - SVG - LTN
Home Airport: LHR
 
ShamrockBoi330
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:28 am

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:56 pm

OA260 wrote:
Airport Charges Decision A Disaster For Passengers And For The Irish Economy

daa is hugely disappointed at today’s publication of the Commission for Aviation Regulation’s (CAR) Final Determination on Dublin Airport’s charges for 2020-2024.

CAR has set a price of €7.87 for the period, which is 18% below Dublin Airport’s flat pricing proposal of €9.65 that was discussed with airlines 12 months ago.

The flat pricing proposition would have funded almost €2 billion of much-needed investment at Dublin Airport to deliver new boarding gates, aircraft parking stands, an upgraded security area, and improvements to other customer facilities. This flat pricing plan and was supported by the vast majority of airline customers during daa’s extensive consultation process.

http://www.dublinairport.com/latest-new ... sh-economy


Is anyone else getting fed up with Dalton Phillips public tantrums? So adjust your €2b budget, knock 18% off you still have in excess of €1.5b to play with for improvements!

yes, its not ideal in a perfect world, yes Dublin airport does need improvements, which you can still do, just get creative! the lunacy of his tantrums are now beyond throwing dummies to the wind....

anyone who has ever worked in budgeting knows you have your wish list and you adapt, anyone who has ever worked with architects, know you get your wishlist and adjust to budgeted reality!

you can still do a bloody lot of good with the adjusted budget!

***rant over***
Last edited by ShamrockBoi330 on Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
shamrock350
Posts: 5470
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:57 pm

klm617 wrote:
shamrock350 wrote:
klm617 wrote:


What would Brexit have to do with EI expanding. The average traveler is not going to be effected by Brexit. Even DL/VS are expanding to the British Isles in spite of Brexit. EI could easily add one or two North American markets but I think their ambitious growth plan was nothing but smoke and mirrors to see if it could get airports to come up with significant case to lure them in but that didn't happen so they are scrapping the entire narrowbody growth plan.


Yikes.

Firstly, a bit of research into the impact of a ‘no deal’ Brexit on the Irish economy would answer your first question extensively. In short, the British economy would be trashed and the Irish economy would be severely weakened, not a great basis for profitable expansion by an airline largely focused on the Irish and British market.

The second part of your post is nonsense. Just this summer Aer Linus ordered an additional six narrow body aircraft for transatlantic expansion, bit much for smoke and mirrors no?

Just because DTW didn’t make the cut this time around doesn’t mean the entire business strategy of the airline has changed.


Well they added many flights to existing destinations and scrapped YUL for 2020 so actions speak louder than words. I still think the whole narrowbody expansion thing was just a balloon they floated out there. The fact is they have not added one new route based on the A321 acquisition.


The so far loaded expansion for next summer is all in the form of A330 wide body routes; MIA, MCO, SEA and the rumoured increase to 10x weekly for SFO. The only reason MSP is going to A332 is because of a lack of suitable narrow body frames so that kind of puts a dampener on your theory that it was all smoke and mirrors by Aer Lingus.
 
Eitilt
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:59 pm

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:00 pm

 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5238
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:22 pm

A60Stock wrote:
winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Detroit is the largest metropolitan area with no European LCC service. It would have draw from the entire state of Michigan and Ohio plus from the Eastern part of Indiana and the Western part of Ontario. It is home to one of the wealthiest counties in the Untied state and there is a lot of disposable income in South Eastern Michigan alone. Detroit lacks coinvent service one stop service to most of England without having to back track in most cases at least an hour to reach those destinations. Michigan is a major tourist state in the Midwest with it's Caribbean like beaches in the summer and skiing in the winter. The Traverse City area is growing in leaps and bounds as far as tourism goes. Detroit is a very cost effective airport to fly into with hardly any air traffic congestion creating no significant flight delays. WOW Air was very successful in Detroit and Aer Lingus could build on what WOW Air did in Detroit by creating a low coast European option in the market. This year alone LH is almost doubling it's presence in Detroit thus showing evidence that there is room for growth in Detroit. The 2020 North American auto show debuts in June of 2020 thus creating more tourism options to capitalize on for Aer Lingus. Plus there is the anna.aero article they did on DTW-DUB as one of unserved routes with the most potential so there are tons of reasons as to why DTW should be the next Aer Lingus add in North America.


Nothing. Not one thing that you've said there, ties Detroit to Dublin... without a local market to speak of the route is not viable. That might at least partially explain why DTW has been overlooked in favor of MSP, etc., who have much larger local markets.


Just because somewhere is the largest unserved market in terms of an LCC service doesn't immediately make it a candidate. NWI is probably the largest unserved market to Ireland in the U.K. but yet the economics of it aren't there - the agricultural and elderly care industries won't pay for LM or EI to fly the route. In order to make long-haul low-cost pay, you do need business class and all the corporate bookings that go with it. GM has pulled out of Europe, Ford is struggling in Europe and there is not much else that comes to mind to fill the cabin up front to subsidise your economy ticket on this route. As you have stated, LH has as near as makes no difference doubled its presence in DTW; does that not take EI's slice of pie for corporate bookings?

WOW Air has folded, Norwegian is publicly known to be struggling and these are/were largely for the leisure market. Apart from to places like MCO, the leisure market is not lucrative enough to be enticing at all.


So you are comparing NWI with DTW that's priceless DTW itself is a larger market than DUB. I understand in this forum that there is a bias against DTW that for some reason in this forum that DTW is not viable to any market. That's OK but until you live in this market please keep your negativity to yourself about it's potential. I don't go on other people threads an popoo their potential because guess what I don't live there. WW did not go broke flying to places like DTW they went broke flying to places like MIA, LAX and SFO
Last edited by klm617 on Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5238
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:24 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
shamrock350 wrote:

Yikes.

Firstly, a bit of research into the impact of a ‘no deal’ Brexit on the Irish economy would answer your first question extensively. In short, the British economy would be trashed and the Irish economy would be severely weakened, not a great basis for profitable expansion by an airline largely focused on the Irish and British market.

The second part of your post is nonsense. Just this summer Aer Linus ordered an additional six narrow body aircraft for transatlantic expansion, bit much for smoke and mirrors no?

Just because DTW didn’t make the cut this time around doesn’t mean the entire business strategy of the airline has changed.


Well they added many flights to existing destinations and scrapped YUL for 2020 so actions speak louder than words. I still think the whole narrowbody expansion thing was just a balloon they floated out there. The fact is they have not added one new route based on the A321 acquisition.


The so far loaded expansion for next summer is all in the form of A330 wide body routes; MIA, MCO, SEA and the rumoured increase to 10x weekly for SFO. The only reason MSP is going to A332 is because of a lack of suitable narrow body frames so that kind of puts a dampener on your theory that it was all smoke and mirrors by Aer Lingus.


There has been no narrow body destinations added in North America based on the A321 additions. The only one was YUL and guess what it's not being added. They could have easily did DUB-YUL with an A330 as well.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8358
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:30 pm

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Airport Charges Decision A Disaster For Passengers And For The Irish Economy

daa is hugely disappointed at today’s publication of the Commission for Aviation Regulation’s (CAR) Final Determination on Dublin Airport’s charges for 2020-2024.

CAR has set a price of €7.87 for the period, which is 18% below Dublin Airport’s flat pricing proposal of €9.65 that was discussed with airlines 12 months ago.

The flat pricing proposition would have funded almost €2 billion of much-needed investment at Dublin Airport to deliver new boarding gates, aircraft parking stands, an upgraded security area, and improvements to other customer facilities. This flat pricing plan and was supported by the vast majority of airline customers during daa’s extensive consultation process.

http://www.dublinairport.com/latest-new ... sh-economy


Is anyone else getting fed up with Dalton Phillips public tantrums? So adjust your €2b budget, knock 18% off you still have in excess of €1.5b to play with for improvements!

yes, its not ideal in a perfect world, yes Dublin airport does need improvements, which you can still do, just get creative! the lunacy of his tantrums are now beyond throwing dummies to the wind....

anyone who has ever worked in budgeting knows you have your wish list and you adapt, anyone who has ever worked with architects, know you get your wishlist and adjust to budgeted reality!

you can still do a bloody lot of good with the adjusted budget!

***rant over***


Or they could sell ARI, which will net a nice juicy sum.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8358
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:31 pm

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Airport Charges Decision A Disaster For Passengers And For The Irish Economy

daa is hugely disappointed at today’s publication of the Commission for Aviation Regulation’s (CAR) Final Determination on Dublin Airport’s charges for 2020-2024.

CAR has set a price of €7.87 for the period, which is 18% below Dublin Airport’s flat pricing proposal of €9.65 that was discussed with airlines 12 months ago.

The flat pricing proposition would have funded almost €2 billion of much-needed investment at Dublin Airport to deliver new boarding gates, aircraft parking stands, an upgraded security area, and improvements to other customer facilities. This flat pricing plan and was supported by the vast majority of airline customers during daa’s extensive consultation process.

http://www.dublinairport.com/latest-new ... sh-economy


Is anyone else getting fed up with Dalton Phillips public tantrums? So adjust your €2b budget, knock 18% off you still have in excess of €1.5b to play with for improvements!

yes, its not ideal in a perfect world, yes Dublin airport does need improvements, which you can still do, just get creative! the lunacy of his tantrums are now beyond throwing dummies to the wind....

anyone who has ever worked in budgeting knows you have your wish list and you adapt, anyone who has ever worked with architects, know you get your wishlist and adjust to budgeted reality!

you can still do a bloody lot of good with the adjusted budget!

***rant over***


Or they could sell ARI, which will net a nice juicy sum.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
A60Stock
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 5:42 pm

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:07 pm

klm617 wrote:
A60Stock wrote:
winginit wrote:

Nothing. Not one thing that you've said there, ties Detroit to Dublin... without a local market to speak of the route is not viable. That might at least partially explain why DTW has been overlooked in favor of MSP, etc., who have much larger local markets.


Just because somewhere is the largest unserved market in terms of an LCC service doesn't immediately make it a candidate. NWI is probably the largest unserved market to Ireland in the U.K. but yet the economics of it aren't there - the agricultural and elderly care industries won't pay for LM or EI to fly the route. In order to make long-haul low-cost pay, you do need business class and all the corporate bookings that go with it. GM has pulled out of Europe, Ford is struggling in Europe and there is not much else that comes to mind to fill the cabin up front to subsidise your economy ticket on this route. As you have stated, LH has as near as makes no difference doubled its presence in DTW; does that not take EI's slice of pie for corporate bookings?

WOW Air has folded, Norwegian is publicly known to be struggling and these are/were largely for the leisure market. Apart from to places like MCO, the leisure market is not lucrative enough to be enticing at all.


So you are comparing NWI with DTW that's priceless DTW itself is a larger market than DUB. I understand in this forum that there is a bias against DTW that for some reason in this forum that DTW is not viable to any market. That's OK but until you live in this market please keep your negativity to yourself about it's potential. I don't go on other people threads an popoo their potential because guess what I don't live there. WW did not go broke flying to places like DTW they went broke flying to places like MIA, LAX and SFO


Of course, it is a facile response to a facile argument. I don't believe there is any inherent bias towards DTW on this forum, but it's not like there is someone saying CLE (for example) should be linked to every other city in the world - you would tire of it pretty quickly, too, if someone came along with a feverish need for CLE to be number one. It's not negativity, I don't doubt Detroit has some brilliant attributes, but until you can really make a link between businesses between the two places filling the Business cabin to subsidise your low cost travel, colour me and many others sceptical. Living somewhere is not enough to qualify someone to determine a place's credentials, it builds bias into you and makes you overlook the economics - there's also nothing to stop you just because you live in one place from interrogating other rumours about routes unrelated to DTW and finding them wanting. I find this rumour wanting.

It's not that DTW is not viable to any market, otherwise nobody would fly there (my local airport just so happens to have year-round service to DTW), many are just doubtful that this city pairing would work with AF/DL/LH meeting the demand to Europe already. Also, I'm not attributing location to how WOW folded, I am attributing fares - you are after economy fares for the leisure market, right? WOW folded because they were economy only for a long time, and when they finally did add a premium product it was too late - the business passenger subsidises the economy traveller in long-haul, and that is a matter of economics, not negativity.

I have all the time in the world to hear why this is the next logical route, I just want some kind of facts-based argument as to why if you were an accountant (my profession), you would put this route high up there as the company's best chance of turning a profit. But let's not spam this thread any further? I am parking my point now.
Types flown: A319, A320, B734, B738, B744, B77W and E195.
Airports flown to/from: DUB, JFK, LGW, LHR, LIS, LTN, PDL, SEN and STN.
Airlines flown with: AA, BA, BD, BE, EI, and FR.
Next flights: W9 LTN - SVG - LTN
Home Airport: LHR
 
User avatar
shamrock350
Posts: 5470
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:16 pm

klm617 wrote:
shamrock350 wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Well they added many flights to existing destinations and scrapped YUL for 2020 so actions speak louder than words. I still think the whole narrowbody expansion thing was just a balloon they floated out there. The fact is they have not added one new route based on the A321 acquisition.


The so far loaded expansion for next summer is all in the form of A330 wide body routes; MIA, MCO, SEA and the rumoured increase to 10x weekly for SFO. The only reason MSP is going to A332 is because of a lack of suitable narrow body frames so that kind of puts a dampener on your theory that it was all smoke and mirrors by Aer Lingus.


There has been no narrow body destinations added in North America based on the A321 additions. The only one was YUL and guess what it's not being added. They could have easily did DUB-YUL with an A330 as well.



Lets go over this again.

The first four A321LR were primarily to be used as like for like replacements for the four 757s operated by ASL Ireland but this wasn't to happen until slightly later in the year which enabled Aer Lingus to operate YUL and BDL on the first two A321LR from July/August while MSP was started on a freed up 757 at the same time. Earlier this year it became apparent that the first four aircraft wouldn't arrive on time, in fact each one would be roughly six to eight weeks behind schedule which meant the launch of YUL would be missed entirely and the operation of MSP would be reliant on a 757 being freed up from BDL which was originally to be the second A321LR route.

The new plan based on the delays was to have YUL postponed until 2020, reduce frequencies on BDL to allow a reduced MSP to start and then quickly reinstate the original frequencies to both cities when the first of the A321LR arrived. This happened as planned in early August. Aer Lingus didn't receive another A321LR until late September followed by the third in early October. This was well past the most suitable time of year for new route launches. The fourth is currently in the very early stages of construction, Aer Lingus will be lucky to have it before year end. It's worth noting the original plan was to have all four in operation by the start of winter with the first of the 757s retiring prior to that so they're very behind.

Unfortunately Airbus is still indicating delays to the A321LR into next year, it's believed the airline may only have five frames going into peak summer next year which puts them at the exact same narrow body capacity that they had this summer.

Summer 2019: 1 A321LR + 4 757
Summer 2020: 5 A321LR (speculated)

That really limits what they can do.

Now you might ask why they can't start a new route like YUL with an A330, well they could but they've just spent the past two years in discussions with numerous airports suitable for narrow body operations, even the A332 would be a huge jump in capacity and require a complete business case review. You may also ask why they can't hang on to the 757s for longer, the answer here is simple, they're not Aer Lingus' to keep and the operator has already pencilled at least one of them in for a new life as a freighter.

In terms of wide body capacity, Aer Lingus has two A333s on the way with the first expected before Christmas and the second early in the new year. However, only one is a definite for expansion as the other is expected to replace one of the ageing A332s, either EI-EWR which is coming to the end of its five year lease or EI-LAX which is knackered and requires some very expensive work for a 21 year old frame.

This again limits what they can do for next summer so they had a choice to make; stick with the initial IAG backed business plan which is narrow body capacity into new markets subject to Airbus deliveries and wide body capacity beefing up west coast operations OR temporarily throw wide body capacity into new, untested markets and neglect the current network only to reverse it all when the remaining A321LRs are eventually delivered and hope you haven't lost too much money in the process?

The above is all based on delivery delays, there's also Brexit, concerns about the global economy, capacity issues in Dublin and Aer Lingus' own resources to consider. Quite frankly I'd say all of that is far more likely than your conspiracy theory.
 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5238
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:57 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
shamrock350 wrote:

The so far loaded expansion for next summer is all in the form of A330 wide body routes; MIA, MCO, SEA and the rumoured increase to 10x weekly for SFO. The only reason MSP is going to A332 is because of a lack of suitable narrow body frames so that kind of puts a dampener on your theory that it was all smoke and mirrors by Aer Lingus.


There has been no narrow body destinations added in North America based on the A321 additions. The only one was YUL and guess what it's not being added. They could have easily did DUB-YUL with an A330 as well.



Lets go over this again.

The first four A321LR were primarily to be used as like for like replacements for the four 757s operated by ASL Ireland but this wasn't to happen until slightly later in the year which enabled Aer Lingus to operate YUL and BDL on the first two A321LR from July/August while MSP was started on a freed up 757 at the same time. Earlier this year it became apparent that the first four aircraft wouldn't arrive on time, in fact each one would be roughly six to eight weeks behind schedule which meant the launch of YUL would be missed entirely and the operation of MSP would be reliant on a 757 being freed up from BDL which was originally to be the second A321LR route.

The new plan based on the delays was to have YUL postponed until 2020, reduce frequencies on BDL to allow a reduced MSP to start and then quickly reinstate the original frequencies to both cities when the first of the A321LR arrived. This happened as planned in early August. Aer Lingus didn't receive another A321LR until late September followed by the third in early October. This was well past the most suitable time of year for new route launches. The fourth is currently in the very early stages of construction, Aer Lingus will be lucky to have it before year end. It's worth noting the original plan was to have all four in operation by the start of winter with the first of the 757s retiring prior to that so they're very behind.

Unfortunately Airbus is still indicating delays to the A321LR into next year, it's believed the airline may only have five frames going into peak summer next year which puts them at the exact same narrow body capacity that they had this summer.

Summer 2019: 1 A321LR + 4 757
Summer 2020: 5 A321LR (speculated)

That really limits what they can do.

Now you might ask why they can't start a new route like YUL with an A330, well they could but they've just spent the past two years in discussions with numerous airports suitable for narrow body operations, even the A332 would be a huge jump in capacity and require a complete business case review. You may also ask why they can't hang on to the 757s for longer, the answer here is simple, they're not Aer Lingus' to keep and the operator has already pencilled at least one of them in for a new life as a freighter.

In terms of wide body capacity, Aer Lingus has two A333s on the way with the first expected before Christmas and the second early in the new year. However, only one is a definite for expansion as the other is expected to replace one of the ageing A332s, either EI-EWR which is coming to the end of its five year lease or EI-LAX which is knackered and requires some very expensive work for a 21 year old frame.

This again limits what they can do for next summer so they had a choice to make; stick with the initial IAG backed business plan which is narrow body capacity into new markets subject to Airbus deliveries and wide body capacity beefing up west coast operations OR temporarily throw wide body capacity into new, untested markets and neglect the current network only to reverse it all when the remaining A321LRs are eventually delivered and hope you haven't lost too much money in the process?

The above is all based on delivery delays, there's also Brexit, concerns about the global economy, capacity issues in Dublin and Aer Lingus' own resources to consider. Quite frankly I'd say all of that is far more likely than your conspiracy theory.


Thank you very much for your well written explanation but I assure you the EI is not going to open up any new US destinations with the A321LR. What eventually will happen is these aircraft will be placed on already established routes either by replacing larger aircraft or by adding addition capacity. The Idea like I said was floated out there to see if any airports out there were willing to pay to play and they got a very cold reception so they scrapped the plan. I am sure that's why YUL was canceled because they couldn't extort any money from that well served market. Time will tell but we can revisit this argument every August to October as long as you'd like.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
styles9002
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 8:21 pm

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:38 am

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
styles9002 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
—-

Can you really say that HKG failed, or just became a victim of circumstance? Cathay have cut a lot of capacity given the recent turmoil in Hong Kong, as have a lot of other airlines. Plus, its only suspended and due to resume in March, or has this changed?

PEK was never ideal with the EDI leg, often wondered how it would have fared without that stop and getting a true direct non-stop service? Needless to say, HNA Group troubles didnt help either!


Yes, it failed. No other CX long-haul destination was cut in the short-term before or at the same time DUB was cut. There were some minor reductions in other long-haul markets announced at the same time (going from 7 to 6 weekly or thereabouts ) but no other city was abandoned. I don't doubt there will be more cuts & reductions to come for other long-haul markets as Hong Kong yields to the Beijing boot but DUB was the first and, to date, only cut. If you want to blame it on the 'circumstance' of civil disorder, please do.

As for PEK, even LON has modest non-stop service so I don't know what your expectations were for DUB. If, at present, London supports 2 to 3 non-stops per day to PEK (compared to 8 to 9 per day to HKG) I don't see how DUB could support a daily non-stop or even less frequency on its own to PEK.

I don't pretend to have any inside information and am merely basing my opinions on what has happened. From what I have read here there appears to be a fixation on why there are no non-stops to various long-haul markets like TYO, JNB, CPT, and SHA and I just think people need to take a hard look at the underlying realities (sort of like I think Aer Lingus has done) and realize that many, if not most, of the routes are just not going to happen in the short to mid-term.

For a small country, Ireland has excellent connectivity to major world cities, especially in Europe and North America. I recognize that this may be 'boring' to some people but compared to similar sized economies in your geography I think you are outperforming.
It is what it is.
 
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klm617
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:53 am

styles9002 wrote:
ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
styles9002 wrote:


Yes, it failed. No other CX long-haul destination was cut in the short-term before or at the same time DUB was cut. There were some minor reductions in other long-haul markets announced at the same time (going from 7 to 6 weekly or thereabouts ) but no other city was abandoned. I don't doubt there will be more cuts & reductions to come for other long-haul markets as Hong Kong yields to the Beijing boot but DUB was the first and, to date, only cut. If you want to blame it on the 'circumstance' of civil disorder, please do.

As for PEK, even LON has modest non-stop service so I don't know what your expectations were for DUB. If, at present, London supports 2 to 3 non-stops per day to PEK (compared to 8 to 9 per day to HKG) I don't see how DUB could support a daily non-stop or even less frequency on its own to PEK.

I don't pretend to have any inside information and am merely basing my opinions on what has happened. From what I have read here there appears to be a fixation on why there are no non-stops to various long-haul markets like TYO, JNB, CPT, and SHA and I just think people need to take a hard look at the underlying realities (sort of like I think Aer Lingus has done) and realize that many, if not most, of the routes are just not going to happen in the short to mid-term.

For a small country, Ireland has excellent connectivity to major world cities, especially in Europe and North America. I recognize that this may be 'boring' to some people but compared to similar sized economies in your geography I think you are outperforming.


Touché :-)
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
ShamrockBoi330
Posts: 357
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:19 am

styles9002 wrote:
ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
styles9002 wrote:


Yes, it failed. No other CX long-haul destination was cut in the short-term before or at the same time DUB was cut. There were some minor reductions in other long-haul markets announced at the same time (going from 7 to 6 weekly or thereabouts ) but no other city was abandoned. I don't doubt there will be more cuts & reductions to come for other long-haul markets as Hong Kong yields to the Beijing boot but DUB was the first and, to date, only cut. If you want to blame it on the 'circumstance' of civil disorder, please do.

As for PEK, even LON has modest non-stop service so I don't know what your expectations were for DUB. If, at present, London supports 2 to 3 non-stops per day to PEK (compared to 8 to 9 per day to HKG) I don't see how DUB could support a daily non-stop or even less frequency on its own to PEK.

I don't pretend to have any inside information and am merely basing my opinions on what has happened. From what I have read here there appears to be a fixation on why there are no non-stops to various long-haul markets like TYO, JNB, CPT, and SHA and I just think people need to take a hard look at the underlying realities (sort of like I think Aer Lingus has done) and realize that many, if not most, of the routes are just not going to happen in the short to mid-term.

For a small country, Ireland has excellent connectivity to major world cities, especially in Europe and North America. I recognize that this may be 'boring' to some people but compared to similar sized economies in your geography I think you are outperforming.


Agree on PEK

But re: Hong Kong, the two other European services launched same time as Dublin failed and were long abandoned. And DUB is suspended, not cancelled, I think you missed Washington on routes canned.

With no end in sight for the social unrest, Cathay Pacific’s services between Hong Kong and Washington will cease and flights to Dublin are going to be suspended. The frequencies between Hong Kong and New York, Vancouver, Frankfurt Paris will also be reduced.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2019/09/20/hon ... urbulence/

So lets just agree to disagree! I wouldn't consider a winter suspension a failure.
 
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klm617
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:49 am

A60Stock wrote:
klm617 wrote:
A60Stock wrote:

Just because somewhere is the largest unserved market in terms of an LCC service doesn't immediately make it a candidate. NWI is probably the largest unserved market to Ireland in the U.K. but yet the economics of it aren't there - the agricultural and elderly care industries won't pay for LM or EI to fly the route. In order to make long-haul low-cost pay, you do need business class and all the corporate bookings that go with it. GM has pulled out of Europe, Ford is struggling in Europe and there is not much else that comes to mind to fill the cabin up front to subsidise your economy ticket on this route. As you have stated, LH has as near as makes no difference doubled its presence in DTW; does that not take EI's slice of pie for corporate bookings?

WOW Air has folded, Norwegian is publicly known to be struggling and these are/were largely for the leisure market. Apart from to places like MCO, the leisure market is not lucrative enough to be enticing at all.


So you are comparing NWI with DTW that's priceless DTW itself is a larger market than DUB. I understand in this forum that there is a bias against DTW that for some reason in this forum that DTW is not viable to any market. That's OK but until you live in this market please keep your negativity to yourself about it's potential. I don't go on other people threads an popoo their potential because guess what I don't live there. WW did not go broke flying to places like DTW they went broke flying to places like MIA, LAX and SFO


Of course, it is a facile response to a facile argument. I don't believe there is any inherent bias towards DTW on this forum, but it's not like there is someone saying CLE (for example) should be linked to every other city in the world - you would tire of it pretty quickly, too, if someone came along with a feverish need for CLE to be number one. It's not negativity, I don't doubt Detroit has some brilliant attributes, but until you can really make a link between businesses between the two places filling the Business cabin to subsidise your low cost travel, colour me and many others sceptical. Living somewhere is not enough to qualify someone to determine a place's credentials, it builds bias into you and makes you overlook the economics - there's also nothing to stop you just because you live in one place from interrogating other rumours about routes unrelated to DTW and finding them wanting. I find this rumour wanting.

It's not that DTW is not viable to any market, otherwise nobody would fly there (my local airport just so happens to have year-round service to DTW), many are just doubtful that this city pairing would work with AF/DL/LH meeting the demand to Europe already. Also, I'm not attributing location to how WOW folded, I am attributing fares - you are after economy fares for the leisure market, right? WOW folded because they were economy only for a long time, and when they finally did add a premium product it was too late - the business passenger subsidises the economy traveller in long-haul, and that is a matter of economics, not negativity.

I have all the time in the world to hear why this is the next logical route, I just want some kind of facts-based argument as to why if you were an accountant (my profession), you would put this route high up there as the company's best chance of turning a profit. But let's not spam this thread any further? I am parking my point now.



This is a report prepared by aviation professionals this is all you need to know. https://www.anna.aero/2018/08/01/detroi ... -us-route/
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
Posts: 3049
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:23 pm

klm617 wrote:
A60Stock wrote:
klm617 wrote:

So you are comparing NWI with DTW that's priceless DTW itself is a larger market than DUB. I understand in this forum that there is a bias against DTW that for some reason in this forum that DTW is not viable to any market. That's OK but until you live in this market please keep your negativity to yourself about it's potential. I don't go on other people threads an popoo their potential because guess what I don't live there. WW did not go broke flying to places like DTW they went broke flying to places like MIA, LAX and SFO


Of course, it is a facile response to a facile argument. I don't believe there is any inherent bias towards DTW on this forum, but it's not like there is someone saying CLE (for example) should be linked to every other city in the world - you would tire of it pretty quickly, too, if someone came along with a feverish need for CLE to be number one. It's not negativity, I don't doubt Detroit has some brilliant attributes, but until you can really make a link between businesses between the two places filling the Business cabin to subsidise your low cost travel, colour me and many others sceptical. Living somewhere is not enough to qualify someone to determine a place's credentials, it builds bias into you and makes you overlook the economics - there's also nothing to stop you just because you live in one place from interrogating other rumours about routes unrelated to DTW and finding them wanting. I find this rumour wanting.

It's not that DTW is not viable to any market, otherwise nobody would fly there (my local airport just so happens to have year-round service to DTW), many are just doubtful that this city pairing would work with AF/DL/LH meeting the demand to Europe already. Also, I'm not attributing location to how WOW folded, I am attributing fares - you are after economy fares for the leisure market, right? WOW folded because they were economy only for a long time, and when they finally did add a premium product it was too late - the business passenger subsidises the economy traveller in long-haul, and that is a matter of economics, not negativity.

I have all the time in the world to hear why this is the next logical route, I just want some kind of facts-based argument as to why if you were an accountant (my profession), you would put this route high up there as the company's best chance of turning a profit. But let's not spam this thread any further? I am parking my point now.



This is a report prepared by aviation professionals this is all you need to know. https://www.anna.aero/2018/08/01/detroi ... -us-route/


How very telling that the article you love to reference was written over a year ago and both Delta and Aer Lingus still opted not to fly the route. Very telling as to the limited viability of the route no?
 
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alancostello
Posts: 296
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:56 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
A60Stock wrote:

Of course, it is a facile response to a facile argument. I don't believe there is any inherent bias towards DTW on this forum, but it's not like there is someone saying CLE (for example) should be linked to every other city in the world - you would tire of it pretty quickly, too, if someone came along with a feverish need for CLE to be number one. It's not negativity, I don't doubt Detroit has some brilliant attributes, but until you can really make a link between businesses between the two places filling the Business cabin to subsidise your low cost travel, colour me and many others sceptical. Living somewhere is not enough to qualify someone to determine a place's credentials, it builds bias into you and makes you overlook the economics - there's also nothing to stop you just because you live in one place from interrogating other rumours about routes unrelated to DTW and finding them wanting. I find this rumour wanting.

It's not that DTW is not viable to any market, otherwise nobody would fly there (my local airport just so happens to have year-round service to DTW), many are just doubtful that this city pairing would work with AF/DL/LH meeting the demand to Europe already. Also, I'm not attributing location to how WOW folded, I am attributing fares - you are after economy fares for the leisure market, right? WOW folded because they were economy only for a long time, and when they finally did add a premium product it was too late - the business passenger subsidises the economy traveller in long-haul, and that is a matter of economics, not negativity.

I have all the time in the world to hear why this is the next logical route, I just want some kind of facts-based argument as to why if you were an accountant (my profession), you would put this route high up there as the company's best chance of turning a profit. But let's not spam this thread any further? I am parking my point now.



This is a report prepared by aviation professionals this is all you need to know. https://www.anna.aero/2018/08/01/detroi ... -us-route/


How very telling that the article you love to reference was written over a year ago and both Delta and Aer Lingus still opted not to fly the route. Very telling as to the limited viability of the route no?


Also if you take a look at other unserved routes of the week from anna.aero you'll find most have hundreds of thousands of searches and STILL aren't served directly. 22,000 searches is not very much, in a recent unserved route of the week they had data that demonstrated with 70,700 searches of Hamburg to Tirana, only 13,000 actually flew it indirectly, that's roughly 18% and on a short haul flight at that were it's likely going to be cheaper and more accessible to do so.

If 18% of the 22,000 searches took a hypothetical DTW-DUB flight that's only 4,000 passengers or 20 or so flights worth. Even at 3 or 4 times a week that's barely a month or two worth of flights. Even if there's a big advertising campaign and it hits 25% uptake, that is, assuming one in four people who search for a flight book that flight, you're looking at 3 months worth of service, there just isn't the intrinsic demand to support the flight.
 
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klm617
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:28 pm

alancostello wrote:
winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:


This is a report prepared by aviation professionals this is all you need to know. https://www.anna.aero/2018/08/01/detroi ... -us-route/


How very telling that the article you love to reference was written over a year ago and both Delta and Aer Lingus still opted not to fly the route. Very telling as to the limited viability of the route no?


Also if you take a look at other unserved routes of the week from anna.aero you'll find most have hundreds of thousands of searches and STILL aren't served directly. 22,000 searches is not very much, in a recent unserved route of the week they had data that demonstrated with 70,700 searches of Hamburg to Tirana, only 13,000 actually flew it indirectly, that's roughly 18% and on a short haul flight at that were it's likely going to be cheaper and more accessible to do so.

If 18% of the 22,000 searches took a hypothetical DTW-DUB flight that's only 4,000 passengers or 20 or so flights worth. Even at 3 or 4 times a week that's barely a month or two worth of flights. Even if there's a big advertising campaign and it hits 25% uptake, that is, assuming one in four people who search for a flight book that flight, you're looking at 3 months worth of service, there just isn't the intrinsic demand to support the flight.



DTW-KEF was the 55th most destination served before WOW started service and in that time it went from 55th place to 5th places as far as O/D from DTW so there is no reason to think that DTW-DUB can't be just as successful even EI has mentioned DTW is an underserved market when it talked about expansion with the A321 so it's beyond me why everyone finds it so hard to believe that DTW-DUB doesn't have potential.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
LAXffDUB
Posts: 52
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:55 pm

As I follow all these discussions about DTW and references to the apparent success of MSP, could someone please enlighten me as to why DL hasn't launched these routes? Both airports are their hubs and obviously see a reason not to, or are they considering it? Also makes me wonder about SEA, and especially LAX where they share a terminal, which are becoming major hubs. DL seems willing to yield the market to EI...
 
smi0006
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:38 am

Long time member Aussie member - but first time poster in the Irish thread.

Was curious with the 321s operating short haul, how the EI cabin crew group is separated? Longhaul? Shorthaul? 320/321 or no separation and crew work throughout the network?

Many thank!
 
mast2407
Posts: 148
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:36 am

LAXffDUB wrote:
As I follow all these discussions about DTW and references to the apparent success of MSP, could someone please enlighten me as to why DL hasn't launched these routes? Both airports are their hubs and obviously see a reason not to, or are they considering it? Also makes me wonder about SEA, and especially LAX where they share a terminal, which are becoming major hubs. DL seems willing to yield the market to EI...


Pure speculation on my part, I suspect airline alliances and parent company’s may have a part to play here.

DL is part of SkyTeam which doesn’t have connections in Dublin that can’t be fulfilled by DL flying to Paris CDG (Air France) or Amsterdam AMS (KLM). Both AF and KLM are members of SkyTeam, and have their main hubs at these airports.

EI on the other hand, while not in an alliance (for now), is part of the IAG, comprising (among others) of British Airways, with its hub in London Heathrow and Iberia with its hub in Madrid MAD . Both EI and BA fly the Dub-Lhr route, fulfilling connections and such, and with EI flying to both Madrid and Barcelona to connect with Iberia’s route network.

I doubt DL sees it as a yielding of the market to EI, but simply as a cost of doing business, they can’t fly everywhere...
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:06 am

Route from Southend to City of Derry Airport to launch this weekend

THE first flight from Southend Airport to City of Derry Airport will take off this weekend.

The route, operated by Scottish firm Loganair, will launch on Sunday.

Dubbed a Government public service obligation, the previous route, from Stansted, was cancelled in February after the demise of Flybmi and was initially re-installed after Loganair stepped in.

www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17993289.route ... h-weekend/



The last Air Arabia flight DUB-AGA operated the other day. Sad to see another carrier pull out of DUB.
 
Eitilt
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:21 am

Aer Lingus cabin crew can be rostered for any Aer Lingus flight, the anomaly is the 757, but that will be gone in a few months.
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:01 pm

EI-LRA positioned to Shannon this morning. It will replace the 757 on the Boston route.
 
Skyblue39
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:03 pm

OA260 wrote:
Route from Southend to City of Derry Airport to launch this weekend

THE first flight from Southend Airport to City of Derry Airport will take off this weekend.

The route, operated by Scottish firm Loganair, will launch on Sunday.

Dubbed a Government public service obligation, the previous route, from Stansted, was cancelled in February after the demise of Flybmi and was initially re-installed after Loganair stepped in.

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/1799328 ... h-weekend/



The last Air Arabia flight DUB-AGA operated the other day. Sad to see another carrier pull out of DUB.


The last Air Arabia flight is actually next Saturday 2nd November.
Air Arabia have pulled their Agadir base, so not just DUB has been canned, but all their routes from AGA.
 
EINA320
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:21 am

Eitilt wrote:
Aer Lingus cabin crew can be rostered for any Aer Lingus flight, the anomaly is the 757, but that will be gone in a few months.

Can Cork based crew be rostered to fly from DUB or SNN too? For example, could a Cork based crew member bid for a long haul flight from SNN on the A321LR for example?
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:22 am

DAA: increasing Dublin Airport’s traffic by 2.5m people flies in the face of logic

A decision to increase the forecasted number of passengers flying to and from Dublin Airport by more than 2.5 million over the next five years has been criticised as overly optimistic by the airport’s owner

www.businesspost.ie/business/daa-increa ... gic-455729
 
Eitilt
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:45 am

EI cabincrew are normally hired for the Dublin base now but can bid to transfer to Cork or Shannon if a vacancy becomes available as these bases only have enough crew to cover their local flights .
So it’s generally a lifestyle choice by them.
They can be rostered from another base with their travel to and back from that base included in their duty but usually will not be granted their own request from another base as they are needed at their home base due to minimum numbers.
Hope that’s clear enough.
 
EINA320
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:54 am

Eitilt wrote:
EI cabincrew are normally hired for the Dublin base now but can bid to transfer to Cork or Shannon if a vacancy becomes available as these bases only have enough crew to cover their local flights .
So it’s generally a lifestyle choice by them.
They can be rostered from another base with their travel to and back from that base included in their duty but usually will not be granted their own request from another base as they are needed at their home base due to minimum numbers.
Hope that’s clear enough.


Thanks for clearing that up! I always wondered about it. Is it the same with pilots? Will they be opening a pilot base in SNN now that it’s all airbus?
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:26 pm

About 20 years ago I knew of an ORK based EI cabin crew member who transferred to long-haul SNN on a temporary basis. It may have been around the time of the MD-11 and BFS flights. Might have been trying to ensure each base was adequately crewed, I guess.
 
IrishLessor
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:33 pm

Couple of things;
I believe Royal Air Maroc may make an appearance at DUB soon, I've heard Agadir, but Casablanca would sound more realistic. If already mentioned above press ignore comment, I couldn't see one.

RE: Aer Lingus expansion on the North Atlantic

A lot of ill informed nonsense being mentioned above in many posts. No smoke and mirrors relating to EI expansion. Firstly, they've had a 100% increase in transatlantic passengers since 2015. Fact.
Next year the airline will see significant growth again on the North Atlantic. Take a detailed look at their schedules to September it looks like double digit growth. They'll beef up capacity and frequency on existing routes. New routes are usually announced in Sept. All new airctaft that arrive will be fully utilised and that includes the 321N and the two 333s that are about to be delivered. They'll also withdraw some 332's and some of the 757s will go too.

It's very refreshing to see Aer Lingus grow in a profitable and sustainable manner.

As for DTW the details spelled out at the face of it above look attractive. However, comparing EI and LH didn't tell much regarding viability. Ireland's population is miniscule compared to Germany. Aer Lingus will prioritise the routes that offer the greatest yield, simples. That may not mean DTW... equally re the references to Aer Lingus being a low cost carrier. That it is not, it is a value carrier, there are distinctions...
 
Eitilt
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:41 pm

There are no Airbus pilots based at Shannon.
The 321LR flights may be operated from the Cork based pilots in the future.
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:10 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
EI-LRA positioned to Shannon this morning. It will replace the 757 on the Boston route.


Perfect plane for BOS-SNN in the winter, but is it slated to be on that route in the summer, too?
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:49 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
Perfect plane for BOS-SNN in the winter, but is it slated to be on that route in the summer, too?


Thats the plan. 2x A321LR at SNN, long-term serving BOS and JFK. A321LR has 16/168 Vs 12/165 for the 757, so a slight increase in Y and a 30% uplift in J.
 
Clydenairways
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:14 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
Perfect plane for BOS-SNN in the winter, but is it slated to be on that route in the summer, too?


Thats the plan. 2x A321LR at SNN, long-term serving BOS and JFK. A321LR has 16/168 Vs 12/165 for the 757, so a slight increase in Y and a 30% uplift in J.

It would be great to see a 3rd aircraft doing SNN-ORD, in a few years from now. Even just seasonal .
 
EINA320
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:15 pm

Eitilt wrote:
There are no Airbus pilots based at Shannon.
The 321LR flights may be operated from the Cork based pilots in the future.


That’s a possibility alright, didn’t even think of it. It could easily be incorporated into their 5 on 3 off roster. 2 days short haul in Cork and then leave SNN on their 3rd day be back on the morning of their 5th day and then 3 days off.

It’s interesting though that EI wouldn’t open a pilot base there. If they’re not going to open a base there, could a pilot based in ORK or DUB bid to operate from SNN?
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:54 pm

With the start of the winter schedule, the A321LR is getting to stretch its wings a bit, currently making its first visit to Newark as Hartford gets a day off.

Meanwhile, here's the second of two new A333s for Aer Lingus making an appearance in Toulouse;

Image

F-WZGT Airbus A350-941 383 for Aeroflot as VQ-BFY by Dan Raistrick, on Flickr

Shamrock350
 
alexdelzotto1
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:05 pm

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:02 pm

IrishLessor wrote:
Couple of things;
I believe Royal Air Maroc may make an appearance at DUB soon, I've heard Agadir, but Casablanca would sound more realistic. If already mentioned above press ignore comment, I couldn't see one.

RE: Aer Lingus expansion on the North Atlantic

A lot of ill informed nonsense being mentioned above in many posts. No smoke and mirrors relating to EI expansion. Firstly, they've had a 100% increase in transatlantic passengers since 2015. Fact.
Next year the airline will see significant growth again on the North Atlantic. Take a detailed look at their schedules to September it looks like double digit growth. They'll beef up capacity and frequency on existing routes. New routes are usually announced in Sept. All new airctaft that arrive will be fully utilised and that includes the 321N and the two 333s that are about to be delivered. They'll also withdraw some 332's and some of the 757s will go too.

It's very refreshing to see Aer Lingus grow in a profitable and sustainable manner.

As for DTW the details spelled out at the face of it above look attractive. However, comparing EI and LH didn't tell much regarding viability. Ireland's population is miniscule compared to Germany. Aer Lingus will prioritise the routes that offer the greatest yield, simples. That may not mean DTW... equally re the references to Aer Lingus being a low cost carrier. That it is not, it is a value carrier, there are distinctions...


So just to clarify here because there has been so much back and fourth, YUL is now planned for 2020/2021 or just cancelled all together?
 
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klm617
Posts: 5238
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:47 pm

IrishLessor wrote:
Couple of things;
I believe Royal Air Maroc may make an appearance at DUB soon, I've heard Agadir, but Casablanca would sound more realistic. If already mentioned above press ignore comment, I couldn't see one.

RE: Aer Lingus expansion on the North Atlantic

A lot of ill informed nonsense being mentioned above in many posts. No smoke and mirrors relating to EI expansion. Firstly, they've had a 100% increase in transatlantic passengers since 2015. Fact.
Next year the airline will see significant growth again on the North Atlantic. Take a detailed look at their schedules to September it looks like double digit growth. They'll beef up capacity and frequency on existing routes. New routes are usually announced in Sept. All new airctaft that arrive will be fully utilised and that includes the 321N and the two 333s that are about to be delivered. They'll also withdraw some 332's and some of the 757s will go too.

It's very refreshing to see Aer Lingus grow in a profitable and sustainable manner.

As for DTW the details spelled out at the face of it above look attractive. However, comparing EI and LH didn't tell much regarding viability. Ireland's population is miniscule compared to Germany. Aer Lingus will prioritise the routes that offer the greatest yield, simples. That may not mean DTW... equally re the references to Aer Lingus being a low cost carrier. That it is not, it is a value carrier, there are distinctions...



DTW is a very attractive market that EI could fill a void. I don't understand why every one like to play down Detroit's potential. Instead of making post why it is not viable do some research about the potential of the market. EI in a statement about USA growth said itself that DTW was underserved.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
IrishLessor
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:44 am

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:31 pm

KLM617
I certainly am not talking down DTW. If you read my message you'll see. My point is Aer Lingus will choose the most lucrative destination. I'll leave that to them.

There are many factors that don't always look apparent, such as corporates, with specific opportunities between the two cities, diaspora, potential ticket price, etc.

I think if you look at Aer Lingus through a positive lens you'll recognise their progress and success and you should expect nothing less in future.
 
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OA260
Posts: 24590
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:47 am

Cork Airport forecasts rise in passenger numbers
Airport announces five new European routes for its winter season

Cork Airport has announced five new routes operating during the winter season in a move that is expected to help boost passenger numbers at the airport.

Ryanair’s new twice-weekly route from Cork to Katowice in Poland commences at the end of this month while the airline’s four new summer services to Alicante, Budapest, Malta and Poznan, have also been extended into the winter season.

Cork Airport said it expects passenger numbers to be up 5 per cent versus the same period last year

www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-a ... 7?mode=amp



Flybe to expand Belfast to London City link over peak winter period

FLYBE is expand its Belfast to London air link over Christmas.

The airline has said an extra aircraft will be added to the Belfast City Airport to London City Airport route from the start of December. The plane, a 98-seat E190 aircraft sourced from Connect Airways' partner, Stobart Air.

Connect is the UK consortium formed by Virgin and Stobart last winter to acquire Flybe. The regional airline will officially be rebranded Virgin Connect next year.

www.irishnews.com/business/2019/10/30/n ... d-1751763/

—-

Transport Minister Shane Ross to meet directors at Shannon Airport this week

THE MINISTER for Transport Shane Ross is to meet with the board of the Shannon Group to discuss the future of Shannon Airport this week.

Fine Gael senator Kieran O'Donnell confirmed that Minister Ross will meet with the board this Thursday.

“I have been pushing for Minister Ross to make this visit, particularly in the context of establishing a major European hub link for Shannon Airport. With Brexit looming large on the horizon, this extra connectivity is vital for the Airport.

www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/489714/ ... -week.html
 
ShamrockBoi330
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:28 am

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:01 pm

EI-LRC has taken her training wheels off and is currently stretching her legs on her first TA run to BDL.
 
Skyblue39
Posts: 483
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:34 am

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:41 pm

Good to see It confirmed and loaded for S20 that the Dallas - Dublin route Will begin 07MAY20, a month earlier than planned.
 
mast2407
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:15 am

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:43 am

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
EI-LRC has taken her training wheels off and is currently stretching her legs on her first TA run to BDL.


D’awwww. All growed up! It happened so fast...!
 
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OA260
Posts: 24590
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:37 am

EasyJet launches first flight from Belfast to Marrakech

THE first easyJet flight from Belfast International Airport to Marrakech in Morocco has taken to the skies.

The inaugural service bound for the North African city is the 36th destination easyJet now flies to on its Belfast network.

Flights to the popular resort now operate twice a week on Wednesdays and Saturdays throughout the winter.

www.irishnews.com/business/2019/10/31/n ... h-1752610/



The world's worst plane food? You'd do well to beat Ryanair's 'Irish breakfast'

Granted, there are plenty of logistical challenges that come with serving hundreds of people at 37,000 feet. But some airlines undoubtedly pull it off better than others, as demonstrated by these passengers who shared crime scene evidence of their worst plane meal abominations.

As part of Which?'s annual survey, which involved quizzing more than 2,000 passengers last year, Ryanair came out with the lowest customer satisfaction score and was assigned a dismal one-star rating for range and quality.

www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/lists/passen ... anair/amp/
 
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OA260
Posts: 24590
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:52 pm

Bombardier's Belfast operations sold to Spirit

Aircraft manufacturer Bombardier's Northern Ireland operations have been sold to US firm Spirit AeroSystems.

Bombardier said today it had agreed to sell its aerostructures business, which includes the Belfast plant, to Spirit for more than $700m in cash and debt.

As well as the Belfast plant, Bombardier will sell its aerostructures plant in Morocco and a smaller repair plant in Dallas to Spirit.

www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/1031/1087 ... irit-deal/
 
EI321
Posts: 5066
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Re: Irish 10/19: Winter is coming

Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:36 pm

Westjet's Calgary to Dublin route returning a month earlier next year (May 3rd).

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