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PacoMartin
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Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:49 am

Delta acquired their fleet of B737-900ERs much faster than United
136 8.9 years United Airlines
130 5.7 years Delta Air Lines

In addition they have been retiring their oldest models, and acquiring A321s and A220s.

As of today their average age of their fleet is now 6 months younger than United.

The models with average age over 20 years are highlighted below.

789 United Airlines 15.6 years
38 Boeing 767-300 23.7
55 Boeing 757-200 23.5
99 Airbus A320-200 21.3
40 Boeing 737-700 20.6
74 Boeing 777-200 20.4

916 Delta Airlines 15.1 years
60 McDonnell Douglas MD-88 28.6
62 Airbus A320-200 24.1
56 Boeing 767-300 23.4
111 Boeing 757-200 22.9
29 McDonnell Douglas MD-90 22.4

941 American 11.0 years
21 Boeing 767-300 20.2

753 Southwest 11.3 years

I know , I know, people keep repeating that age is not important in aircrafts, but I think that what is happening to United foreshadows major changes for the airline. Delta may get their fleet as low as 14 years and may eventually catch up to American.
 
SESGDL
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:15 am

I noticed this too a few weeks ago. I’m sure this is info that not many were aware of on here; there are still comments about “DL and their old planes.” I think this will continue until the MD-80s are gone as they simply ‘seem’ old whereas 737NG, in spite of approaching 20 years or more, don’t.

Jeremy
 
jumbojet
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:41 am

SESGDL wrote:
I noticed this too a few weeks ago. I’m sure this is info that not many were aware of on here; there are still comments about “DL and their old planes.”
Jeremy


just so happens that DL's old planes are a lot more reliable than newer planes flown by the direct competition. Its not a fanboy statement, I see it on a daily basis on flightaware.
 
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STT757
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Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:51 am

PacoMartin wrote:
Delta acquired their fleet of B737-900ERs much faster than United
136 8.9 years United Airlines
130 5.7 years Delta Air Lines

In addition they have been retiring their oldest models, and acquiring A321s and A220s.

As of today their average age of their fleet is now 6 months younger than United.

The models with average age over 20 years are highlighted below.

789 United Airlines 15.6 years
38 Boeing 767-300 23.7
55 Boeing 757-200 23.5
99 Airbus A320-200 21.3
40 Boeing 737-700 20.6
74 Boeing 777-200 20.4

916 Delta Airlines 15.1 years
60 McDonnell Douglas MD-88 28.6
62 Airbus A320-200 24.1
56 Boeing 767-300 23.4
111 Boeing 757-200 22.9
29 McDonnell Douglas MD-90 22.4

941 American 11.0 years
21 Boeing 767-300 20.2

753 Southwest 11.3 years

I know , I know, people keep repeating that age is not important in aircrafts, but I think that what is happening to United foreshadows major changes for the airline. Delta may get their fleet as low as 14 years and may eventually catch up to American.


Does the fleet age include the 737Max.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:00 pm

STT757 wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
Delta acquired their fleet of B737-900ERs much faster than United
136 8.9 years United Airlines
130 5.7 years Delta Air Lines

In addition they have been retiring their oldest models, and acquiring A321s and A220s.

As of today their average age of their fleet is now 6 months younger than United.

The models with average age over 20 years are highlighted below.

789 United Airlines 15.6 years
38 Boeing 767-300 23.7
55 Boeing 757-200 23.5
99 Airbus A320-200 21.3
40 Boeing 737-700 20.6
74 Boeing 777-200 20.4

916 Delta Airlines 15.1 years
60 McDonnell Douglas MD-88 28.6
62 Airbus A320-200 24.1
56 Boeing 767-300 23.4
111 Boeing 757-200 22.9
29 McDonnell Douglas MD-90 22.4

941 American 11.0 years
21 Boeing 767-300 20.2

753 Southwest 11.3 years

I know , I know, people keep repeating that age is not important in aircrafts, but I think that what is happening to United foreshadows major changes for the airline. Delta may get their fleet as low as 14 years and may eventually catch up to American.


Does the fleet age include the 737Max.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


OP didn't cite a source. Age calcs on planespotters.net do include MAX.

DL's mainline fleet is a little younger than UA but well older than AA or AS.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:00 pm

STT757 wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
Delta acquired their fleet of B737-900ERs much faster than United
136 8.9 years United Airlines
130 5.7 years Delta Air Lines

In addition they have been retiring their oldest models, and acquiring A321s and A220s.

As of today their average age of their fleet is now 6 months younger than United.

The models with average age over 20 years are highlighted below.

789 United Airlines 15.6 years
38 Boeing 767-300 23.7
55 Boeing 757-200 23.5
99 Airbus A320-200 21.3
40 Boeing 737-700 20.6
74 Boeing 777-200 20.4

916 Delta Airlines 15.1 years
60 McDonnell Douglas MD-88 28.6
62 Airbus A320-200 24.1
56 Boeing 767-300 23.4
111 Boeing 757-200 22.9
29 McDonnell Douglas MD-90 22.4

941 American 11.0 years
21 Boeing 767-300 20.2

753 Southwest 11.3 years

I know , I know, people keep repeating that age is not important in aircrafts, but I think that what is happening to United foreshadows major changes for the airline. Delta may get their fleet as low as 14 years and may eventually catch up to American.


Does the fleet age include the 737Max.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


OP didn't cite a source. Age calcs on planespotters.net do include MAX.

DL's mainline fleet is a little younger than UA but well older than AA or AS.
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:27 pm

And yet, one can still fly on a 33 year old MD-88 on DL - definitely the most diverse fleet of the big four.
So... when will the Northwest DC-9s be retired?
 
EI321
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:44 pm

Do DL still fly the MD's into JFK and if so which routes? I thought they were all being retired in September/October!
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:45 pm

SESGDL wrote:
I noticed this too a few weeks ago. I’m sure this is info that not many were aware of on here; there are still comments about “DL and their old planes.” I think this will continue until the MD-80s are gone as they simply ‘seem’ old whereas 737NG, in spite of approaching 20 years or more, don’t.

Jeremy


Sadly it seems the 757 and 767 fall under this same ignorant perception, yet these same people get on a 30 year old A320 or 22 year old 777-200ER without thinking twice.

Yet I'm told EIS doesn't matter...
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
slcguy
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:47 pm

Don't think the average age of the fleet matters that much. It will change over time as aircraft types are acquired and retired. In Delta's case, they invested money into the aircraft and tend to keep them as long as possible to get the best return on investment, ie 757, 767, MD88 and MD90. Now that these types are slowly being phased out depending on type (757 and 767 will stick around for quite a bit) and the addition of the new 739ER, 220, 321, 339 and 350 the average fleet age is going to go down..
Some of the mid age types, 717, 738, later build 319/320 and 777s will be around for quite awhile as well. As long as there is industry support for older aircraft and with Delta Tech Ops expertise, if Delta retires an aircraft it has probably seen it's last days flying. Sorry if I rambled on, kind of touched on a couple of related subjects.
Last edited by slcguy on Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:10 pm

United has a significant fleet of airplanes from the 1990s since they expanded quickly in the 90s. They were taking new deliveries almost weekly. Airplanes can fly economically for about 30 years.

Delta is just completing the retirements of their 1980s vintage airplanes. The cycle is swapping with Delta being newer than United. It likely will flip again in 10-12 years once United replaces all the pre 9-11 airplanes such as the 757s, 767s, A320s, and 777-200s. United got rid of their 1980s vintage airplanes in bankruptcy and in the 2009 recession (737CL fleet) since they shrunk their domestic capacity whereas Delta didn’t shrink as much and kept the MD88s. The A350s and 737-10s will get part of the way to retire the 1990s vintage planes, but not all the way as far as retirement goes.

What’s next for United? Is it launching the NMA next year?
 
jayunited
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:22 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
Delta acquired their fleet of B737-900ERs much faster than United
136 8.9 years United Airlines
130 5.7 years Delta Air Lines

In addition they have been retiring their oldest models, and acquiring A321s and A220s.

As of today their average age of their fleet is now 6 months younger than United.

The models with average age over 20 years are highlighted below.

789 United Airlines 15.6 years
38 Boeing 767-300 23.7
55 Boeing 757-200 23.5
99 Airbus A320-200 21.3
40 Boeing 737-700 20.6
74 Boeing 777-200 20.4

916 Delta Airlines 15.1 years
60 McDonnell Douglas MD-88 28.6
62 Airbus A320-200 24.1
56 Boeing 767-300 23.4
111 Boeing 757-200 22.9
29 McDonnell Douglas MD-90 22.4

941 American 11.0 years
21 Boeing 767-300 20.2

753 Southwest 11.3 years

I know , I know, people keep repeating that age is not important in aircrafts, but I think that what is happening to United foreshadows major changes for the airline. Delta may get their fleet as low as 14 years and may eventually catch up to American.


Is there a reason why the remainder of the fleet was omitted from this list? I appreciate the hard work you put into this accumulating all this data but why omit substantial portions of both DL and UA's fleet from the list? And are those omited fleet types included in your overall caculation of average age of each airlines fleet type? Or does the average for DL and UA only include the 739ERs pluse the fleet types listed with an average age of over 20 years?
 
OneX123
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:30 pm

jumbojet wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
I noticed this too a few weeks ago. I’m sure this is info that not many were aware of on here; there are still comments about “DL and their old planes.”
Jeremy


just so happens that DL's old planes are a lot more reliable than newer planes flown by the direct competition. Its not a fanboy statement, I see it on a daily basis on flightaware.


Care to elaborate? Do you have statistics? Find it hard to believe you can come up with this 'fact' by looking at flightaware...
 
IADCA
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:34 pm

OneX123 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
I noticed this too a few weeks ago. I’m sure this is info that not many were aware of on here; there are still comments about “DL and their old planes.”
Jeremy


just so happens that DL's old planes are a lot more reliable than newer planes flown by the direct competition. Its not a fanboy statement, I see it on a daily basis on flightaware.


Care to elaborate? Do you have statistics? Find it hard to believe you can come up with this 'fact' by looking at flightaware...


There's only one important statement in his post - the one that attempts to deny the undeniable, considering the source.
 
NotFinals
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:42 pm

this doesn't include many aircraft type for Delta to United . what would it be if all aircraft were included?
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:48 pm

STT757 wrote:
Does the fleet age include the 737Max.

Yes I did, but removing them from the calculation makes the fleet age older by 13.6 weeks

So with the MAXs the Delta fleet is 22.7 weeks younger than United and without the MAXs the fleet is younger by 36.3 weeks.

But the precise details of the calculations to the week are not as significant as the overall trend.

If United adds 20 MAX-9s without retiring any jets over the next year, United's average age will go to about 16.2 years
If Delta replaces 60 MD-88s with new jets over the next year, Delta's average age will go down to 14.2 years

Than the difference between the average fleet age will be 2 years instead of ~6 months.

Basically Delta is driving down their average age while United is getting older.
 
United1
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:56 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Does the fleet age include the 737Max.

Yes I did, but removing them from the calculation makes the fleet age older by 13.6 weeks

So with the MAXs the Delta fleet is 22.7 weeks younger than United and without the MAXs the fleet is younger by 36.3 weeks.

But the precise details of the calculations to the week are not as significant as the overall trend.

If United adds 20 MAX-9s without retiring any jets over the next year, United's average age will go to about 16.2 years
If Delta replaces 60 MD-88s with new jets over the next year, Delta's average age will go down to 14.2 years

Than the difference between the average fleet age will be 2 years instead of ~6 months.

Basically Delta is driving down their average age while United is getting older.


Where are you getting your numbers from? Just as a heads up the numbers you are presenting do not match up with airfleets ect. Not saying that you are wrong in your overall statement that UAs fleets is slightly older than DLs is but the ages don't match up exactly.

UA is slated to retire a few older Airbus and 757 aircraft this year but I think that is on hold until the MAX issues are resolved.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:10 pm

The older the plane, the more maintenance that is required. Especially if the plane falls into the Aging Aircraft Program.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:15 pm

jayunited wrote:
Is there a reason why the remainder of the fleet was omitted from this list? I appreciate the hard work you put into this accumulating all this data but why omit substantial portions of both DL and UA's fleet from the list? And are those omited fleet types included in your overall caculation of average age of each airlines fleet type? Or does the average for DL and UA only include the 739ERs pluse the fleet types listed with an average age of over 20 years?


I only omitted them because I have been receiving criticism about my posts being too long. I simply used a vector dot product (sumproduct in Excel) to calculate the average age which I double-checked with Planespotters average age. The advantage of having my own spreadsheet is you can do a "what if" calculation. Obviously if the fleet remains unchanged in a year the average age of the fleet will be one year older. But "what if" you assume that certain jets are retired and new ones are acquired you get a revised average age.

Since United is not likely to retire very many jets in the immediate future, it can't acquire new jets fast enough to reduce or even maintain the overall fleet age. Delta is both acquiring new jets at a faster rate, and is planning to retire some very old ones. So under some fairly reasonable scenarios Delta's fleet average age will drop.

789 United Airlines 15.6
79 Airbus A319-100 17.9
99 Airbus A320-200 21.3
40 Boeing 737-700 20.6
141 Boeing 737-800 15.7
148 Boeing 737-900 7.7
14 Boeing 737 MAX 9 1.1
55 Boeing 757-200 23.5
21 Boeing 757-300 17.2
38 Boeing 767-300 23.7
16 Boeing 767-400 18.1
74 Boeing 777-200 20.4
18 Boeing 777-300 2.3
9 Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner 0.9
12 Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner 6.3
25 Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner 3.6

916 Delta Airlines 15.1
25 Airbus A220-100 0.4
57 Airbus A319-100 17.7
62 Airbus A320-200 24.1
94 Airbus A321-200 1.5
11 Airbus A330-200 14.5
31 Airbus A330-300 10.7
4 Airbus A330-900 0.2
13 Airbus A350-900 1.6
91 Boeing 717-200 18.1
10 Boeing 737-700 10.7
77 Boeing 737-800 18.1
130 Boeing 737-900 3.1
111 Boeing 757-200 22.9
16 Boeing 757-300 16.7
56 Boeing 767-300 23.4
21 Boeing 767-400 18.8
18 Boeing 777-200 14.7
60 McDonnell Douglas MD-88 28.6
29 McDonnell Douglas MD-90 22.4

941 American 11.0
132 Airbus A319-100 15.5
48 Airbus A320-200 18.5
219 Airbus A321-200 7.2
6 Airbus A321neo 0.4
15 Airbus A330-200 7.8
9 Airbus A330-300 19.2
304 Boeing 737-800 9.9
24 Boeing 737 MAX 8 1.2
34 Boeing 757-200 19.9
21 Boeing 767-300 20.2
47 Boeing 777-200 18.8
20 Boeing 777-300 5.7
20 Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner 3.9
22 Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner 2.0
20 Embraer ERJ-190 11.9

American is unlikely to retire any jets in the next few years (except the ERJ-190s). The new acquisitions will have trouble keeping pace with the aging of the current fleet. I suspect that American's average age will increase at a modest rate, possibly even catching Southwest.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:36 pm

PacoMartin,
Thank you for the detailed information. With DL replacing 757-200s, MD-80s, MD-90s, and (slower) 767-300ER. That begs when the A320-200s are replaced?

Is that the next Delta replacement thread?
Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
ManoaChris
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:00 pm

Really interesting data, but could you elaborate a bit more on how you are sourcing aircraft age?

For example:

PacoMartin wrote:
9 Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner 0.9


When I look up United's 787-10 delivery dates on Airfleets, I get an average age of 32.6 weeks (0.63 years). It's not a big difference, but I'm guessing you are using a different source?

781 Reg Delivery date Weeks
N14001 2018-11-06 47.0
N17002 2018-12-01 43.4
N12003 2018-12-18 41.0
N12004 2019-02-01 34.6
N12005 2019-02-21 31.7
N12006 2019-03-24 27.3
N16008 2019-03-30 26.4
N91007 2019-05-17 19.6
N16009 2019-04-27 22.4
 
catiii
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:12 pm

jumbojet wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
I noticed this too a few weeks ago. I’m sure this is info that not many were aware of on here; there are still comments about “DL and their old planes.”
Jeremy


just so happens that DL's old planes are a lot more reliable than newer planes flown by the direct competition. Its not a fanboy statement, I see it on a daily basis on flightaware.


Define “reliable?”
 
1989worstyear
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Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:53 pm

Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:22 pm

lightsaber wrote:
PacoMartin,
Thank you for the detailed information. With DL replacing 757-200s, MD-80s, MD-90s, and (slower) 767-300ER. That begs when the A320-200s are replaced?

Is that the next Delta replacement thread?
Lightsaber


When are the 752's scheduled to exit?
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
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Adipasquale
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:25 pm

ManoaChris wrote:
When I look up United's 787-10 delivery dates on Airfleets, I get an average age of 32.6 weeks (0.63 years). It's not a big difference, but I'm guessing you are using a different source?

I'm guessing he's using date of first flight instead of delivery date.
DH8A DH8B CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 E45 E70 E75 E90 D93 M88 318 319 320 321 333 343 712 732 733 734 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77L 77W
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:26 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Is there a reason why the remainder of the fleet was omitted from this list? I appreciate the hard work you put into this accumulating all this data but why omit substantial portions of both DL and UA's fleet from the list? And are those omited fleet types included in your overall caculation of average age of each airlines fleet type? Or does the average for DL and UA only include the 739ERs pluse the fleet types listed with an average age of over 20 years?


I only omitted them because I have been receiving criticism about my posts being too long. I simply used a vector dot product (sumproduct in Excel) to calculate the average age which I double-checked with Planespotters average age. The advantage of having my own spreadsheet is you can do a "what if" calculation. Obviously if the fleet remains unchanged in a year the average age of the fleet will be one year older. But "what if" you assume that certain jets are retired and new ones are acquired you get a revised average age.

Since United is not likely to retire very many jets in the immediate future, it can't acquire new jets fast enough to reduce or even maintain the overall fleet age. Delta is both acquiring new jets at a faster rate, and is planning to retire some very old ones. So under some fairly reasonable scenarios Delta's fleet average age will drop.

789 United Airlines 15.6
79 Airbus A319-100 17.9
99 Airbus A320-200 21.3
40 Boeing 737-700 20.6
141 Boeing 737-800 15.7
148 Boeing 737-900 7.7
14 Boeing 737 MAX 9 1.1
55 Boeing 757-200 23.5
21 Boeing 757-300 17.2
38 Boeing 767-300 23.7
16 Boeing 767-400 18.1
74 Boeing 777-200 20.4
18 Boeing 777-300 2.3
9 Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner 0.9
12 Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner 6.3
25 Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner 3.6

916 Delta Airlines 15.1
25 Airbus A220-100 0.4
57 Airbus A319-100 17.7
62 Airbus A320-200 24.1
94 Airbus A321-200 1.5
11 Airbus A330-200 14.5
31 Airbus A330-300 10.7
4 Airbus A330-900 0.2
13 Airbus A350-900 1.6
91 Boeing 717-200 18.1
10 Boeing 737-700 10.7
77 Boeing 737-800 18.1
130 Boeing 737-900 3.1
111 Boeing 757-200 22.9
16 Boeing 757-300 16.7
56 Boeing 767-300 23.4
21 Boeing 767-400 18.8
18 Boeing 777-200 14.7
60 McDonnell Douglas MD-88 28.6
29 McDonnell Douglas MD-90 22.4

941 American 11.0
132 Airbus A319-100 15.5
48 Airbus A320-200 18.5
219 Airbus A321-200 7.2
6 Airbus A321neo 0.4
15 Airbus A330-200 7.8
9 Airbus A330-300 19.2
304 Boeing 737-800 9.9
24 Boeing 737 MAX 8 1.2
34 Boeing 757-200 19.9
21 Boeing 767-300 20.2
47 Boeing 777-200 18.8
20 Boeing 777-300 5.7
20 Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner 3.9
22 Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner 2.0
20 Embraer ERJ-190 11.9

American is unlikely to retire any jets in the next few years (except the ERJ-190s). The new acquisitions will have trouble keeping pace with the aging of the current fleet. I suspect that American's average age will increase at a modest rate, possibly even catching Southwest.

Not true at all the 763s are going and being replaced with 787s. PHL gets them early next year.

https://aeronauticsonline.com/american- ... eet-plans/
 
LGeneReese
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:01 pm

Wonder how the numbers might change once Max deliveries resume? There are currently 14 undelivered built and parked with at least five or six more coming by year end. Plus four 77W/78J as well.
 
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NWAROOSTER
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:20 pm

Delta tends to keep aircraft longer partially due to the fact that they "merged" with Northwest Airlines. Northwest found that they could acquire and maintain used aircraft that were just as reliable as new aircraft. That methodology was transferred along with Northwest personnel to Delta. An example is the DC-9 which Northwest acquired many used after their merger with Republic Airlines. They could be bought cheaply and they put a lot of money into repairs, Checks and a new 717 interior into all their DC-9s. Boeing tried hard to sell Northwest the 717 but did not succeed.. If you want to spend the money on an older aircraft it can just operate as safe and reliable as a new aircraft for about on third the cost. I have a Pacman model of a Boeing 717 in the Bowling Shoe livery which shows Boeing was trying to sell Northwest the 717. Northwest became the largest operator of the DC-9 and NEVER bought a new DC-9.
Just because an aircraft is new does not mean it is better than an older model. An example is the 737 MAX which will be grounded for possibly up to one year. Also the 737NGs are developing problems with the pickle forks. Boeing should have started to build a 737 replacement when the classics were no longer being built. Boeing tried to milk out the 737 for the last nickel and to make Southwest Airlines happy. The point is just because an aircraft is old does not mean a well maintained old aircraft is not safe to operate. But you do not keep stretching it and keep building a 50 year old type aircraft. A new aircraft built to todays standards is the answer and Boeing is finding that out right now the HARD WAY. :old:
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
B757Forever
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:28 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
PacoMartin,
Thank you for the detailed information. With DL replacing 757-200s, MD-80s, MD-90s, and (slower) 767-300ER. That begs when the A320-200s are replaced?

Is that the next Delta replacement thread?
Lightsaber


When are the 752's scheduled to exit?



Currently, DL has no 757 aircraft on the retirement schedule. The fact that they are repairing ship 5643 and retaining it in the fleet is a bit of a clue to the planned longevity of the fleet.
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PacoMartin
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:35 pm

ManoaChris wrote:
Really interesting data, but could you elaborate a bit more on how you are sourcing aircraft age?

For example:

PacoMartin wrote:
9 Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner 0.9


When I look up United's 787-10 delivery dates on Airfleets, I get an average age of 32.6 weeks (0.63 years). It's not a big difference, but I'm guessing you are using a different source?

781 Reg Delivery date Weeks
N14001 2018-11-06 47.0
N17002 2018-12-01 43.4
N12003 2018-12-18 41.0
N12004 2019-02-01 34.6
N12005 2019-02-21 31.7
N12006 2019-03-24 27.3
N16008 2019-03-30 26.4
N91007 2019-05-17 19.6
N16009 2019-04-27 22.4

Airfleets has the estimated age for United's fleet at 15.5 years. I was using the data from planespotters.net for the individual models and then using a dot product to calculate the entire fleet. I get 15.57 years which is slightly different.


N14001 Nov 2018 1.2 Years
N17002 Dec 2018 1.0 Years
N12003 Dec 2018 0.8 Years
N12004 Jan 2019 0.7 Years
N12005 Feb 2019 0.7 Years
N12006 Mar 2019 0.5 Years
N91007 May 2019 2.4 Years
N16008 Mar 2019 0.6 Years
N16009 Apr 2019 0.5 Years

So discrepancies arise because N91007 was used as a testbed for 2 years before being delivered to United.

As I said earlier I am less concerned about getting the exact age to the week as I am about relative trends. Delta is not only acquiring new aircraft at a faster rate than United, but it is also retiring old aircraft while United is holding on to almost every aircraft. As a result Delta's average age is decreasing, while United's is increasing.

I wanted to have a simple spreadsheet so I can see what happens under different scenarios. The posted numbers are static and do not handle any projections.

If I remove the widebodies and the B757s from the calculation for Delta their single-aisle fleet age is only 1 year older than Southwest's. If I do the same thing for United the single-aisle fleet age drops by only 5 months.


I believe that Delta held the title of the world's oldest fleet (for a major airline) for about a decade.
Last edited by PacoMartin on Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:40 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
Delta acquired their fleet of B737-900ERs much faster than United
136 8.9 years United Airlines
130 5.7 years Delta Air Lines

In addition they have been retiring their oldest models, and acquiring A321s and A220s.

As of today their average age of their fleet is now 6 months younger than United.

The models with average age over 20 years are highlighted below.

789 United Airlines 15.6 years
38 Boeing 767-300 23.7
55 Boeing 757-200 23.5
99 Airbus A320-200 21.3
40 Boeing 737-700 20.6
74 Boeing 777-200 20.4

916 Delta Airlines 15.1 years
60 McDonnell Douglas MD-88 28.6
62 Airbus A320-200 24.1
56 Boeing 767-300 23.4
111 Boeing 757-200 22.9
29 McDonnell Douglas MD-90 22.4

941 American 11.0 years
21 Boeing 767-300 20.2

753 Southwest 11.3 years

I know , I know, people keep repeating that age is not important in aircrafts, but I think that what is happening to United foreshadows major changes for the airline. Delta may get their fleet as low as 14 years and may eventually catch up to American.

AND? All that means What exactly? Apples to Oranges?
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:09 pm

B757Forever wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
PacoMartin,
Thank you for the detailed information. With DL replacing 757-200s, MD-80s, MD-90s, and (slower) 767-300ER. That begs when the A320-200s are replaced?

Is that the next Delta replacement thread?
Lightsaber


When are the 752's scheduled to exit?



Currently, DL has no 757 aircraft on the retirement schedule. The fact that they are repairing ship 5643 and retaining it in the fleet is a bit of a clue to the planned longevity of the fleet.


That's what I thought. Thanks.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:54 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
Delta acquired their fleet of B737-900ERs much faster than United
136 8.9 years United Airlines
130 5.7 years Delta Air Lines

Huh? This is not the right way to look at this.

United -900ER deliveries were Oct 2010-Dec 2016 (6 years, 2 months). Delta deliveries were Sep 2013-Jun 2019 (5 years, 9 months). This is a 5-month gap in delivery span, but the reason there is a 3-year gap in fleet age is because Delta waited longer to acquire--3 years longer.

For official figures, look at the airlines' 10-Ks. Average mainline fleet age as of December 31, 2018 was:
-American: 10.6 years
-United: 15.1
-Delta 16.0
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:13 pm

Delta still has 119 aircraft that are 27 years old or older, while United has only 17 aircraft that are 27 years old or older. It gives you the impression that Delta has the older average age, but in reality it is United.

NWAROOSTER wrote:
Northwest found that they could acquire and maintain used aircraft that were just as reliable as new aircraft. That methodology was transferred along with Northwest personnel to Delta.


And that fact was very well publicized. Delta proudly proclaimed that they found it very cost effective to maintain an older fleet.

I don't see United doing press releases to proclaim that they now have the oldest fleet.

Instead you are now seeing articles about Delta increasing the speed by which they are upgrading their fleet
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/delta-hastens-exit-of-mcdonnell-douglas-fleet-with-m-457377/

strfyr51 wrote:
AND? All that means What exactly? Apples to Oranges?


Sooner or later you have to replace aircraft. You're either losing ground or gaining ground.
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:08 pm

simairlinenet wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
Delta acquired their fleet of B737-900ERs much faster than United
136 8.9 years United Airlines
130 5.7 years Delta Air Lines

Huh? This is not the right way to look at this.
United -900ER deliveries were Oct 2010-Dec 2016 (6 years, 2 months). Delta deliveries were Sep 2013-Jun 2019 (5 years, 9 months). This is a 5-month gap in delivery span, but the reason there is a 3-year gap in fleet age is because Delta waited longer to acquire--3 years longer.


We disagree on the starting date for United Airlines jets
14. Jan. 2008 23. Dec. 2016 United
27. Sep. 2013 27. Jun. 2019 Delta



simairlinenet wrote:
For official figures, look at the airlines' 10-Ks. Average mainline fleet age as of December 31, 2018 was:
-American: 10.6 years
-United: 15.1
-Delta 16.0


And I have no doubt that those figures were correct for 9 months ago.
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:15 pm

simairlinenet wrote:
... the reason there is a 3-year gap in fleet age is because Delta waited longer to acquire--3 years longer.


26. Aug. 2016 Average Delivery Date of B737-900ER for Delta
01. Aug. 2013 Average Delivery Date of B737-900ER for United

Yes I agree with you. There is a 3-year gap in fleet age is because Delta waited longer to acquire--3 years longer.

But I was not talking about that, I was talking about the speed of acquisition. The faster you acquire new jets, in addition to retiring old ones, the more likely you are to reduce average fleet age.

That's why on 31 December 2018, Delta had the older fleet. But on 1 October 2019 United has the older fleet .

United went from 15.1 to 15.57 average age over the last 9 months
Delta went from 16.0 to 15.13 average age over the last 9 months

A hypothetical fleet that is unchanged would increase average age by 9 months over the last 9 months (if that is not obvious).
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:44 pm

I'm not surprised that the two fleets have flipped in average age. They weren't that far apart, and DL is replacing old planes in mass now. DL's fleet has a large group of frames built in the '90s into the very early 2000s. They're in the process of replacing that large group, but they have a ways to go yet. UA has a large group made from roughly 1995 to 2002, and it hasn't been necessary to retire them quite yet. UA hasn't actively retired airplanes for a few years, and new planes are going for growth, limiting the average age reduction. But if I was running UA, I'd look to start the replacement cycle soon to avoid the mass retirement cycle that DL is facing.
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:52 pm

It's amazing how those early 737 NG's at Delta, United, and American are approaching and going over 20 years of age, I remember when they were brand new.
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:14 pm

one thing AA does very well is having newer planes.
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:21 pm

simairlinenet wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
Delta acquired their fleet of B737-900ERs much faster than United
136 8.9 years United Airlines
130 5.7 years Delta Air Lines

Huh? This is not the right way to look at this.

United -900ER deliveries were Oct 2010-Dec 2016 (6 years, 2 months). Delta deliveries were Sep 2013-Jun 2019 (5 years, 9 months). This is a 5-month gap in delivery span, but the reason there is a 3-year gap in fleet age is because Delta waited longer to acquire--3 years longer.

For official figures, look at the airlines' 10-Ks. Average mainline fleet age as of December 31, 2018 was:
-American: 10.6 years
-United: 15.1
-Delta 16.0


Really? That was almost a year ago. There are various places that aircraft age data can be collected from. United's fleet is now older than DL's, that's a fact. The fact that people are trying to argue with data is ridiculous.

Jeremy
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:24 pm

Summary of earlier posts for new people
Southwest's oldest jet is 22.6 years old
American's oldest jet is 26.2 years old
United has 17 jets at or over 27 years old
Delta has 119 jets at or over 27 years old

Delta's average is decreasing, while United's average age is increasing.

Despite the large number of old jets in Delta's fleet sometime in 2019 the average age of Delta fleet moved to lower than the average age of United's fleet.

While an older fleet doesn't necessarily have correlation to safety or even to on time performance, there inevitably is a time when the cost of the D check, sometimes known as a "heavy maintenance visit" (HMV) exceeds the value of the aircraft. The rule of thumb traditionally was it is usually better accounting to sell the airframe than to pay for a 4th D check. So it affects depreciation rates.
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:30 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Is there a reason why the remainder of the fleet was omitted from this list? I appreciate the hard work you put into this accumulating all this data but why omit substantial portions of both DL and UA's fleet from the list? And are those omited fleet types included in your overall caculation of average age of each airlines fleet type? Or does the average for DL and UA only include the 739ERs pluse the fleet types listed with an average age of over 20 years?


941 American 11.0
132 Airbus A319-100 15.5
48 Airbus A320-200 18.5
219 Airbus A321-200 7.2
6 Airbus A321neo 0.4
15 Airbus A330-200 7.8
9 Airbus A330-300 19.2
304 Boeing 737-800 9.9
24 Boeing 737 MAX 8 1.2
34 Boeing 757-200 19.9
21 Boeing 767-300 20.2
47 Boeing 777-200 18.8
20 Boeing 777-300 5.7
20 Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner 3.9
22 Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner 2.0
20 Embraer ERJ-190 11.9

American is unlikely to retire any jets in the next few years (except the ERJ-190s). The new acquisitions will have trouble keeping pace with the aging of the current fleet. I suspect that American's average age will increase at a modest rate, possibly even catching Southwest.
musman9853 wrote:
one thing AA does very well is having newer planes.


I read in another thread here, that AA IS getting rid of the ERJ-190's & immediately replacing them with used A-319's from a source that I do not recall. I am sure someone more familiar will be able to further fill in the details better than I can.

I recall the thread, because I remember learning that AA was the largest operator of the A-319 & it made sense to replace the ERJ's to drop a type & since AA is very familiar with the A-319 & it has a similar passenger capacity, that it was a solid financial decision. I can not recall how many frames they mentioned AA would acquire, but it was in double digits.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:13 am

This whole topic might be based on false numbers and Delta fanboy opinion not based on facts. Think it would be better to go with the following rankings rather than a individual's numbers that have no reference...

'Here is the full ranking, according to data compiled by Airfleets.net, as of September 2019.'

Airlines with the youngest fleet: the full ranking

# 1. Aeroflot airline fleet age
Average aircraft age is 4.4 years.

# 2. Ethiopian Airlines
Average aircraft age is 5.7 years.

# 3. China Eastern Airlines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 5.9 years.

# 4. Qatar Airways fleet age
Average aircraft age is 6 years.

# 5. Emirates fleet age
Average aircraft age is 6.2 years.

# 6. Turkish Airlines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 6.8 years.

# 7. China Southern fleet age
Average aircraft age is 7 years.

# 8. Ryanair fleet age
Average aircraft age is 7.6 years.

# 9. EasyJet fleet age
Average aircraft age is 7.8 years.

# 10. Alaska Airlines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 8.4 years.

# 11. Cathay Pacific fleet age
Average aircraft age is 8.5 years old.

# 12. Swiss International Airlines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 9.6 years old.

# 13. JetBlue Airways fleet age
Average aircraft age is 10.2 years.

# 14. American Airlines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 10.8 years.

# 15. Southwest Airlines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 11 years.

# 16. SkyWest Airlines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 11.5 years.

# 17. Lufthansa fleet age
Average aircraft age is 12 years.

# 18. British Airways fleet age
Average aircraft age is 13.5 years.

# 19. United Airlines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 15.1 years.

# 20. Delta Air Lines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 15.8 years.
You are here.
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:30 am

PacoMartin wrote:
Delta still has 119 aircraft that are 27 years old or older, while United has only 17 aircraft that are 27 years old or older. It gives you the impression that Delta has the older average age, but in reality it is United.

NWAROOSTER wrote:
Northwest found that they could acquire and maintain used aircraft that were just as reliable as new aircraft. That methodology was transferred along with Northwest personnel to Delta.


And that fact was very well publicized. Delta proudly proclaimed that they found it very cost effective to maintain an older fleet.

I don't see United doing press releases to proclaim that they now have the oldest fleet.

Instead you are now seeing articles about Delta increasing the speed by which they are upgrading their fleet


Sooner or later you have to replace aircraft. You're either losing ground or gaining ground.


So because DL has a larger fleet size then their average works in their favor but from you own post DL has 119 aircraft over 27 years old while UA only has 17.

While you say sooner of later you have to replace aircraft or your loosing ground you seem to forget DL isn't the only airline with a large order book. UA has as you have pointed out has 14 737-MAX9 aircraft in storage but what you have left out is UA has 137 additional 737MAX9/10s on order, an 13 additional 789s on order, 5 additional 78Js on order, 4 additional 77W on order, and I believe 45 additional A359s (with deliveries starting in 2022).

We know part of the fleet renewal plan for UA the second part of the plan which includes replacements for the 757s, 763s and the oldest A320s is still up in the air as UA continues to wait for Boeing to do something with their proposed 797 and UA mulls over whether to replace our aging A320s with 737MAX8s, A320NEOs and or A220-300s. In my opinion I think we could hear an announcement on the A320 by late 2020 with deliveries/replacements starting late 2025 or early 2026 I also think by late 2020 we will know what will replace the 757s and 763s.

DL is a P.R. master and they run an excellent operation however just because we don't see articles every month or so about UA aquiring newer modern jets doesn't mean UA has a empty order book in fact widebody aircraft deliveries to UA resume in November. UA has a lot of aircraft on order and if it wasn't for the MAX grounding I belive our MAX9 fleet would be around 25-30 aircraft at this time.
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:39 am

jayunited wrote:
[quote

DL is a P.R. master and they run an excellent operation however just because we don't see articles every month or so about UA aquiring newer modern jets doesn't mean UA has a empty order book in fact widebody aircraft deliveries to UA resume in November. UA has a lot of aircraft on order and if it wasn't for the MAX grounding I belive our MAX9 fleet would be around 25-30 aircraft at this time.

You fail to include that United Airlines is acquiring used A319s. Therefore Delta is NOT the only airline that sees the advantages of including used aircraft into their fleet. :old:
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:03 am

jayunited wrote:
DL is a P.R. master


That alone sums up this thread.

Delta fanboys have made dozens of posts over the years bragging about Delta "winning" because having the oldest fleet in the US was a tribute to their financial responsibility and supposedly superior maintenance abilities. Now that Delta has marginally the second old fleet in the US, the same fanboys are crowing about Delta "winning" because they don't have the oldest fleet in the US?

If Delta replaced their Biscoff cookies with processed patties made from sheep dung the fanboys would compliment Delta for offering passengers high fiber snacks.
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:05 am

CALTECH wrote:
This whole topic might be based on false numbers and Delta fanboy opinion not based on facts. Think it would be better to go with the following rankings rather than a individual's numbers that have no reference...

'Here is the full ranking, according to data compiled by Airfleets.net, as of September 2019.'

Airlines with the youngest fleet: the full ranking

# 1. Aeroflot airline fleet age
Average aircraft age is 4.4 years.

# 2. Ethiopian Airlines
Average aircraft age is 5.7 years.

# 3. China Eastern Airlines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 5.9 years.

# 4. Qatar Airways fleet age
Average aircraft age is 6 years.

# 5. Emirates fleet age
Average aircraft age is 6.2 years.

# 6. Turkish Airlines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 6.8 years.

# 7. China Southern fleet age
Average aircraft age is 7 years.

# 8. Ryanair fleet age
Average aircraft age is 7.6 years.

# 9. EasyJet fleet age
Average aircraft age is 7.8 years.

# 10. Alaska Airlines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 8.4 years.

# 11. Cathay Pacific fleet age
Average aircraft age is 8.5 years old.

# 12. Swiss International Airlines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 9.6 years old.

# 13. JetBlue Airways fleet age
Average aircraft age is 10.2 years.

# 14. American Airlines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 10.8 years.

# 15. Southwest Airlines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 11 years.

# 16. SkyWest Airlines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 11.5 years.

# 17. Lufthansa fleet age
Average aircraft age is 12 years.

# 18. British Airways fleet age
Average aircraft age is 13.5 years.

# 19. United Airlines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 15.1 years.

# 20. Delta Air Lines fleet age
Average aircraft age is 15.8 years.


Follow your own advice and look up the airline fleet ages on airfleets. Airfleets lists the average age of DL’s fleet as 15.2 and UA’s as 15.5. Is this data also now incorrect because it doesn’t fit your false narrative? Why is this so hard to accept? This isn’t fanboyism, it’s facts. They literally can’t be argued with.

Jeremy
Last edited by SESGDL on Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:26 am

SESGDL wrote:
Really? That was almost a year ago. There are various places that aircraft age data can be collected from. United's fleet is now older than DL's, that's a fact. The fact that people are trying to argue with data is ridiculous. Jeremy


You also can't argue with a simple hypothetical example.
Imagine an airline with 1000 jets that average 15 years old. That same fleet a year later with 40 new jets will have as total years 16020 years (assuming the jets come at regular intervals through the year).
1000*16=16000 plus
40*0.5=20
The new average age would now be 16020/1040 = 15.4 years
You would need to add at least 69 new jets to keep the fleet age at 15 years after a year.

United has no plans that I know of to retire any jets by the end of 2020. They are adding used jets and some new ones, so it is almost certain that their average age will increase.

Delta is both retiring old jets and acquiring new ones at a faster rate than United. Their average fleet age is going to be reduced by the end of 2020 (probably not as low as Americans).

I think United has a balloon mortgage that will come due within 5 years that may necessitate a change in operations.
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:15 am

jayunited wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
Delta still has 119 aircraft that are 27 years old or older, while United has only 17 aircraft that are 27 years old or older.
So because DL has a larger fleet size then their average works in their favor but from you own post DL has 119 aircraft over 27 years old while UA only has 17.


I am trying to be as analytic as possible, so I think the fanboy label is totally inappropriate. I was actually a United frequent flyer for most of my life.
To the above facts about over age 27, you can add that Delta's oldest jet that is not a B757, B767, or MD88 is three years older than United's.
N309US Delta Air Lines Airbus A320-200 Manufacturer Serial Number (MSN) 118 | Age 29.2 Years
N401UA United Airlines Airbus A320-200 Manufacturer Serial Number (MSN) 435 | Age 26.1 Years

The advantage of using an actual mathematical model is you are not swayed by factoids, but you can add in any acquisition plan that you want.

United Airlines will add 40 mainline aircraft to its fleet in 2019, the most since 2010.
While United will retire nine narrow-body aircraft this year (three 757-200s, two A319s, and four A320s), it will more than offset the retirements with the addition of 40 new aircraft.
The new mainline aircraft will include:
20 737 MAX 9s
8 Boeing 787-10s
2 Boeing 777-300s
10 Airbus A319s (used)
Not included in the count, United will also add 25 Embraer 175 aircraft for regional jet operations this year.
As a point of reference, United added 28 mainline aircraft in 2018:
10 Boeing 737 MAX 9s
4 Boeing 787-9s
4 Boeing 777-300s
3 Boeing 787-10s
4 Airbus A319s (used)
3 Boeing 767-300s (used)
https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/2019/01/24/united-airlines-2019-fleet-plan/


In addition to not being burdened with any MAX orders, Delta has been making higher profits, and simply has more money for fleet renewal.

Net income first 6 months of 2019
$2,154,911,000 Delta
$1,344,699,000 United
$1,127,650,000 Southwest
$943,769,000 American
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:46 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
jayunited wrote:

I am trying to be as analytic as possible, so I think the fanboy label is totally inappropriate. I was actually a United frequent flyer for most of my life.
To the above facts about over age 27, you can add that Delta's oldest jet that is not a B757, B767, or MD88 is three years older than United's.
N309US Delta Air Lines Airbus A320-200 Manufacturer Serial Number (MSN) 118 | Age 29.2 Years
N401UA United Airlines Airbus A320-200 Manufacturer Serial Number (MSN) 435 | Age 26.1 Years

The advantage of using an actual mathematical model is you are not swayed by factoids, but you can add in any acquisition plan that you want.

In addition to not being burdened with any MAX orders, Delta has been making higher profits, and simply has more money for fleet renewal.

Net income first 6 months of 2019
$2,154,911,000 Delta
$1,344,699,000 United
$1,127,650,000 Southwest
$943,769,000 American


I'm sorry but I never all you a fanboy and I didn't mean anything in a disparaging manner. All I said was DL is a PR master and they are and that isn't me taking a dig at DL. They are PR masters and they run an excellent operation from top to bottom. My post was an attempt to provide facts because you stated sooner or later you have to replace aircraft old aircraft with new models. By post was to show you that UA does have 137 narrowbody 737MAX9/10s on order, so we are not just relying on used jets or the jets currently in our fleet.

As far as your last statement again it is slightly misleading the MAX situation is not the reason DL has been making higher profits.
DL has been out performing UA, WN and AA for years because they are a better airline, and they run a better operation that any of the remaining airlines mentioned. DL has more hubs with they face less competition which gives them power to set higher prices and people don't mind paying those higher prices because the love flying with DL.

But when you compare DL's new aircraft current order book and delivery schedule to UA's, WN, and AA' s I think you will see similarities in the total number of aircraft still on order. To make it completely fair I would say make the adjustment for the MAX grounding meaning since DL has been taking delivery of new Airbus aircraft during the grounding adjust and include the undelivered MAXs Boeing has stored at their Renton facility for UA, AA and WN because if not for the grounding those frames would have been delivered so count them as delivered. I wonder if DL who clearly has more money than the other airlines mentioned has a larger new aircraft order book and if DL has the more aggressive delivery schedule or if their delivery schedule is more in line with UA, AA and WN delivery schedule when adjusted for the MAX grounding.
 
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Re: Average Age of Delta fleet is now younger than United

Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:11 pm

musman9853 wrote:
one thing AA does very well is having newer planes.

And yet I always find myself on a LUS or LHP A321 that seems to be falling apart with a little lipstick on the pig (new leather seat covers). No IFE, No power, broken overhead bins, etc. But kudos to AA for having "newer" planes.
"FLY DELTA JETS"

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