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airboss787
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:30 am

When did AC45 DEL-YVR get a change of gauge to 787-8. I thought it was supposed to always be a 787-9. Is this a planned change of gauge? It's happened quite often for some time now. Didn't know the 787-8 has the legs to do this with a full load?
 
vadodara
Posts: 1146
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:28 am

edealinfo wrote:
Excellent info from interview with
2) Inference: First 787 flight from Mumbai or Delhi to London.

3) Inference: After London, the next 787 route will be to Japan.

3) The third phase of the 787 route strategy would involve US and Australia.


https://www.outlookindia.com/outlooktra ... eo-vistara


Interesting choices. Codeshare with UA, BA and JAL.

US - EWR, ORD, SFO, IAH, IAD ???
My guess will be flights to LHR and transfer to UA to US.
JAL makes sense to make use of Japan-India open free skies and pry some traffic away from SQ/CX.
Not sure why BA would want to codeshare.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2810
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:06 am

vadodara wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Excellent info from interview with
2) Inference: First 787 flight from Mumbai or Delhi to London.

3) Inference: After London, the next 787 route will be to Japan.

3) The third phase of the 787 route strategy would involve US and Australia.


https://www.outlookindia.com/outlooktra ... eo-vistara


Interesting choices. Codeshare with UA, BA and JAL.

>>>>My guess will be flights to LHR and transfer to UA to US.
This will be highly dependent on the timing of the slots they acquire. But why would they use UA over BA at LHR for codeshare?

>>>>>>JAL makes sense to make use of Japan-India open free skies and pry some traffic away from SQ/CX.
Is there really that much traffic between India and Japan? If so, why wouldn't ANA or JAL just add more flights?

>>>>Not sure why BA would want to codeshare.

BA has codeshares for onward traffic to various points in India. BA currently benefits much more than Vistara does because I believe there are no Vistara codeshares on either UA or BA flights.
 
zionite
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:29 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Turkey demand's more bilateral rights to India.
Given that they raised the Kash issue at the United Nations in September there is a zero chance that they would be approved.

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/need-mo ... es-2114276

However, if they start and Amritsar to Istanbul route maybe they will have a moonshot chance. After all, Air India is starting an Amritsar to London Stanstead route which seemed unbelievable.

Amristar as a source point for travel can help the unrealistic become realistic.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/ne ... 47586.html


Turkey demanding anything is a joke.


:lol: If they make any more demands, government may as well reduce the existing rights also.
 
unnayan
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:57 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:47 am

edealinfo wrote:
unnayan wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

So, is it more capable for flying to Europe/Japan or the US/Canada?obviously, it cannot be both since the distances greatly vary,


For comparison.. Qantas flies them on Per to LHR.. so obviously these are best for ULR routes to US and Canada..India to LHR can be done by others too


So, are you saying that the 787-900 is efficient for ultra long routes such as the US and therefore, inefficient for medium haul routes such as Japan and Europe?


Below link should be helpful for you...

P.S.. there is nothing called a 787-900, its only 787-9

https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/differe ... nd-787-10/

especially:

Range
Part of the attraction of airlines to the -9 was its increased range. Whilst the -8 is capable of a very respectable 8,464 miles, the -9 is able to fly an extra 322 miles. Not a massive amount, but considering that could be with an extra 20 tonnes of payload, it opens up routes that were not possible on the -8.

At 7,443 miles, the -10 actually has a shorter ranger than both the -8 and -9. However, due to its far greater capacity of passengers and freight, it means that airlines can utilise its performance on routes where there is more demand.
 
sabby
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:49 am

airboss787 wrote:
When did AC45 DEL-YVR get a change of gauge to 787-8. I thought it was supposed to always be a 787-9. Is this a planned change of gauge? It's happened quite often for some time now. Didn't know the 787-8 has the legs to do this with a full load?


DEL-YVR is 6023nm in gc distance and it is a polar route. The 787-8 was actually optimized for this kind of mission. The still air range of 787-8 is 7355nm with full passengers load. The longest scheduled route for a 787-8 is PVG-MEX which 6975nm.
 
VTORD
Posts: 785
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:22 pm

edealinfo wrote:
vadodara wrote:

Interesting choices. Codeshare with UA, BA and JAL.

>>>>My guess will be flights to LHR and transfer to UA to US.
This will be highly dependent on the timing of the slots they acquire. But why would they use UA over BA at LHR for codeshare?

>>>>Not sure why BA would want to codeshare.

BA has codeshares for onward traffic to various points in India. BA currently benefits much more than Vistara does because I believe there are no Vistara codeshares on either UA or BA flights.

AFAIK the BA codeshare is ex-DEL on domestic. But BA at LHR makes a lot of sense for UK. In addition to the big stations, BA also serves "Tier 2" destinations like BNA, CHS, etc., which provides an extra option bypassing stop at a JFK/ORD/ATL types. Throw in the BA JV with AA and you have a significant advantage from a network penetration POV.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2810
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:48 pm

zionite wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Turkey demand's more bilateral rights to India.


Turkey demanding anything is a joke.


:lol: If they make any more demands, government may as well reduce the existing rights also.


Well, in addition to Turkey, I believe Malaysia, and at least another country (can't remember the name -- Iran?) raised the issue as well.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2810
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:50 pm

unnayan wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
unnayan wrote:

For comparison.. Qantas flies them on Per to LHR.. so obviously these are best for ULR routes to US and Canada..India to LHR can be done by others too


So, are you saying that the 787-900 is efficient for ultra long routes such as the US and therefore, inefficient for medium haul routes such as Japan and Europe?


Below link should be helpful for you...

P.S.. there is nothing called a 787-900, its only 787-9

https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/differe ... nd-787-10/

especially:

Range
Part of the attraction of airlines to the -9 was its increased range. Whilst the -8 is capable of a very respectable 8,464 miles, the -9 is able to fly an extra 322 miles. Not a massive amount, but considering that could be with an extra 20 tonnes of payload, it opens up routes that were not possible on the -8.

At 7,443 miles, the -10 actually has a shorter ranger than both the -8 and -9. However, due to its far greater capacity of passengers and freight, it means that airlines can utilise its performance on routes where there is more demand.


You haven't actually answered my question, which I restate again:

So, are you saying that the 787-9 is efficient for ultra long routes such as the US and therefore, inefficient for medium haul routes such as Japan and Europe?
 
zionite
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:00 pm

edealinfo wrote:
zionite wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

Turkey demanding anything is a joke.


:lol: If they make any more demands, government may as well reduce the existing rights also.


Well, in addition to Turkey, I believe Malaysia, and at least another country (can't remember the name -- Iran?) raised the issue as well.


It's Saudi Arabia. Saudi Prince loaned his private jet to Pakistani PM to travel to US instead of flying on commercial flights.

Iran is actually more friendlier to India.
 
RainerBoeing777
Posts: 593
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:43 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:11 pm

Can Vistara request slots from Haneda? Another doubt if they gave the slot to Air India what route it would be, I have not seen a statement about operations in Haneda? Could it be that Air India left Narita?
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2810
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:49 am

This should be big news:
"Air India privatisation: Govt to make national airline debt-free before sale"

Kudos to the Government for making big bold decisions. Now that they have a mandate with the recent elections they should go full steam ahead.

https://www.financialexpress.com/indust ... e/1734583/
 
sibibom
Posts: 478
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:04 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:57 am

zionite wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
zionite wrote:

:lol: If they make any more demands, government may as well reduce the existing rights also.


Well, in addition to Turkey, I believe Malaysia, and at least another country (can't remember the name -- Iran?) raised the issue as well.


It's Saudi Arabia. Saudi Prince loaned his private jet to Pakistani PM to travel to US instead of flying on commercial flights.

Iran is actually more friendlier to India.


No longer the case. Saudi Arabia and UAE are much more friendlier than Iran now. When Iran was "free" under the nuclear deal, they tried to throw India under the bus over Chabbar port.
 
aarbee
Posts: 443
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:59 pm

binayak wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Do we know what routes Vistara will use the 787 on?

Looks really nice I must say.


Vistara was supposed to get its first aircraft in Feb 2020. I guess this means it will get its first 787 a lot sooner. The first flight is either Mumbai or Delhi to London ( have they secured the slots)???


Vistara earlier hinted the first flight to be Tokyo with JAL partnership.

My thoughts on future routes :
If Vistara tries to launch EWR - BOM/ DEL with UA partnership with those 787-9s , I'm pretty sure that will mark the end of AI operating that route. Even the most loyal AI pax will shift happily to Vistara. After all let the so called national carrier get a taste of international competition and let them realize that the Gujarati crowd of NJ won't fly them forever.

One thing you are forgetting that, that NJ gujarati crowd likes to do customs immigration in AMD vs DEL/BOM. AI provides international connectors, which sadly Jet missed on that.
 
voxkel
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:17 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:12 pm

aarbee wrote:
binayak wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

Vistara was supposed to get its first aircraft in Feb 2020. I guess this means it will get its first 787 a lot sooner. The first flight is either Mumbai or Delhi to London ( have they secured the slots)???


Vistara earlier hinted the first flight to be Tokyo with JAL partnership.

My thoughts on future routes :
If Vistara tries to launch EWR - BOM/ DEL with UA partnership with those 787-9s , I'm pretty sure that will mark the end of AI operating that route. Even the most loyal AI pax will shift happily to Vistara. After all let the so called national carrier get a taste of international competition and let them realize that the Gujarati crowd of NJ won't fly them forever.

One thing you are forgetting that, that NJ gujarati crowd likes to do customs immigration in AMD vs DEL/BOM. AI provides international connectors, which sadly Jet missed on that.

Given AI's recent international plans it wouldn't be inconceivable to start AMD-EWR nonstop. Whether or not that is a good idea is another issue
 
VTORD
Posts: 785
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:41 pm

Vistara expands codeshare with Singapore Airlines Group in Sep/Oct 2019
Vistara in September and October 2019 gradually expanded codeshare partnership with Singapore Airlines Group. The airline started placing UK-coded flight numbers on flights to Jakarta and Kuala Lumpur from September 2019 (09SEP19 or earlier), followed by additional 24 routes, including Australia and New Zealand, from late-September or early-October (02OCT19 or earlier).

Planned codeshare routes include the following.

Vistara operated by Silk Air
Singapore – Balikpapan
Singapore – Bandung
Singapore – Cairns
Singapore – Darwin
Singapore – Hyderabad
Singapore – Koh Samui
Singapore – Kochi
Singapore – Manado
Singapore – Medan Kuala Namu
Singapore – Phnom Penh
Singapore – Phuket
Singapore – Praya
Singapore – Yogyakarta

Vistara operated by Singapore Airlines
Singapore – Ahmedabad
Singapore – Auckland
Singapore – Bangalore
Singapore – Bangkok
Singapore – Chennai
Singapore – Christchurch
Singapore – Denpasar
Singapore – Hanoi
Singapore – Ho Chi Minh City
Singapore – Jakarta*
Singapore – Kolkata
Singapore – Kuala Lumpur*
Singapore – Surabaya
 
VTORD
Posts: 785
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:46 pm

KLM Royal Dutch Airlines during the week of 13OCT19’s OAG schedules update extended schedule listing into winter 2020/21 season, effective from 25OCT20:

Amsterdam – Bangalore eff 25OCT20 2 of 3 weekly operated by 787-10, replacing -9
Amsterdam – Mumbai eff 25OCT20 787-10 operates daily, replacing 777-200ER/787-9

KLM S20 Long-Haul changes as of 11OCT19:
Amsterdam – Bangalore eff 29MAR20 787-9 continues to operate 3 weekly, replacing previously filed -10
Amsterdam – Delhi eff 29MAR20 787-10 operation increases from 5 to 7 weekly, replacing previously planned 5 weekly -10 and 2 weekly -9

Amsterdam – Mumbai eff 29MAR20 A330 replaces previously planned 787-9/-10. Planned increase from 3 to 4 weekly unchanged
29MAR20 – 28SEP20 332 Day 2 (from AMS) 333 Day 357 (from AMS)
29SEP20 – 24OCT20 333 Day x146
 
VTCIE
Posts: 420
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:10 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:00 am

VTORD wrote:
KLM Royal Dutch Airlines during the week of 13OCT19’s OAG schedules update extended schedule listing into winter 2020/21 season, effective from 25OCT20:

Amsterdam – Bangalore eff 25OCT20 2 of 3 weekly operated by 787-10, replacing -9
Amsterdam – Mumbai eff 25OCT20 787-10 operates daily, replacing 777-200ER/787-9

KLM S20 Long-Haul changes as of 11OCT19:
Amsterdam – Bangalore eff 29MAR20 787-9 continues to operate 3 weekly, replacing previously filed -10
Amsterdam – Delhi eff 29MAR20 787-10 operation increases from 5 to 7 weekly, replacing previously planned 5 weekly -10 and 2 weekly -9

Amsterdam – Mumbai eff 29MAR20 A330 replaces previously planned 787-9/-10. Planned increase from 3 to 4 weekly unchanged
29MAR20 – 28SEP20 332 Day 2 (from AMS) 333 Day 357 (from AMS)
29SEP20 – 24OCT20 333 Day x146

This means that AMS–BOM will be served by A330–200s/300s instead of the 787s which are being redeployed to DEL and BLR. Also, this is a huge amount of shuffling for an aircraft; whether you get a 787–9 or 787–10 on AMS–BLR/DEL is entirely up to chance, and similarly BOM people will have a 1 in 4 chance of getting an A332 instead of an A333. It is highly complicated.

If ever—ever—AF starts MAA, which aircraft is it likely to use? A340? 772? 77W?
 
CPS001
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:05 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:10 am

VTCIE wrote:
If ever—ever—AF starts MAA, which aircraft is it likely to use? A340? 772? 77W?


A332 or 789, the best options for a long, thin route. The others are simply too much plane. Unless of course cargo is big which it may well be given the French industries around Chennai.
 
ameya
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:46 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:43 am

How Spicejet is significantly expanding capacity by reconfiguring its aircraft
    SpiceJet is converting its dual class aircraft to mono class.
    The resulting increase in seats on SpiceJet planes is 18 per aircraft.
    One aircraft could add up to 86,000 ASK per day for SpiceJet with current stage length and flights/aircraft.

As Jet Airways collapsed, Spicejet moved in with aggression to not just fill in the void but also to capture its lost market. The airline had significantly reduced its operations leading up to that fateful day in December 2014, when the airline had all but shut down until a spate of changes led to its revival. It took the airline two and half years to reach the size and scale of its former self.

The airline has been in a tearing hurry to launch additional flights. It had to meet the regulator’s mandate to use the slots at the earliest or lose them.

So much so that Spicejet and Vistara – the two airlines which took aircraft which earlier operated for Jet Airways — started operating the aircraft with Jet Airways livery, making bare minimum changes to the exterior.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1300
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:33 pm

ameya wrote:
How Spicejet is significantly expanding capacity by reconfiguring its aircraft
    SpiceJet is converting its dual class aircraft to mono class.
    The resulting increase in seats on SpiceJet planes is 18 per aircraft.
    One aircraft could add up to 86,000 ASK per day for SpiceJet with current stage length and flights/aircraft.

As Jet Airways collapsed, Spicejet moved in with aggression to not just fill in the void but also to capture its lost market. The airline had significantly reduced its operations leading up to that fateful day in December 2014, when the airline had all but shut down until a spate of changes led to its revival. It took the airline two and half years to reach the size and scale of its former self.

The airline has been in a tearing hurry to launch additional flights. It had to meet the regulator’s mandate to use the slots at the earliest or lose them.

So much so that Spicejet and Vistara – the two airlines which took aircraft which earlier operated for Jet Airways — started operating the aircraft with Jet Airways livery, making bare minimum changes to the exterior.


I wish they would just have a Euro business class like a AF or LH (and I think Go does that in India).
 
binayak
Posts: 995
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:37 pm

aarbee wrote:
binayak wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

Vistara was supposed to get its first aircraft in Feb 2020. I guess this means it will get its first 787 a lot sooner. The first flight is either Mumbai or Delhi to London ( have they secured the slots)???


Vistara earlier hinted the first flight to be Tokyo with JAL partnership.

My thoughts on future routes :
If Vistara tries to launch EWR - BOM/ DEL with UA partnership with those 787-9s , I'm pretty sure that will mark the end of AI operating that route. Even the most loyal AI pax will shift happily to Vistara. After all let the so called national carrier get a taste of international competition and let them realize that the Gujarati crowd of NJ won't fly them forever.

One thing you are forgetting that, that NJ gujarati crowd likes to do customs immigration in AMD vs DEL/BOM. AI provides international connectors, which sadly Jet missed on that.


Yes you are right . However , a good percent of that crowd terminates at BOM too . So they might prefer better option than AI .
 
avier
Posts: 1328
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:39 am

Vistara's newest destination : Thiruvananthapuram.

Will fly daily Delhi- Trivandrum from 9th Nov on a 737.
 
User avatar
SQ22
Moderator
Posts: 2381
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:51 am

avier wrote:
Vistara's newest destination : Thiruvananthapuram.

Will fly daily Delhi- Trivandrum from 9th Nov on a 737.


To avoid deletion please always provide a link to a source the very next time.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... 48004.html
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2810
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:37 pm

SQ22 wrote:
avier wrote:
Vistara's newest destination : Thiruvananthapuram.

Will fly daily Delhi- Trivandrum from 9th Nov on a 737.


To avoid deletion please always provide a link to a source the very next time.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... 48004.html


So, rather than build up operations at other metros such as HYD or BLR, Vistara’s approach is to connect as many cities as possible to its central hub, Delhi.

Is this a good or bad strategy?

Is it not ceding supremacy to other carriers at cities other than Delhi?
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1300
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:02 pm

edealinfo wrote:
SQ22 wrote:
avier wrote:
Vistara's newest destination : Thiruvananthapuram.

Will fly daily Delhi- Trivandrum from 9th Nov on a 737.


To avoid deletion please always provide a link to a source the very next time.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... 48004.html


So, rather than build up operations at other metros such as HYD or BLR, Vistara’s approach is to connect as many cities as possible to its central hub, Delhi.

Is this a good or bad strategy?

Is it not ceding supremacy to other carriers at cities other than Delhi?


They are so conservative on their aircraft ramp up that a hub strategy is the best approach. Own DEL. I think Jet would have been better served to have just concentrated on BOM with a DEL and BLR focus cities. Didn't seem like they were making money on many domestic routes. Vistara will be focused on DEL with a mini hub in BOM and then key business routes elsewhere. Spice and Indigo can fill in the rest. All Indian airlines seem to want to be everything for everyone. That doesn't work. Vistara has actually always been a DEL based business carrier. They should stick with that plan. Perhaps just grow a bit faster.
 
unnayan
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:57 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:59 pm

edealinfo wrote:
SQ22 wrote:
avier wrote:
Vistara's newest destination : Thiruvananthapuram.

Will fly daily Delhi- Trivandrum from 9th Nov on a 737.


To avoid deletion please always provide a link to a source the very next time.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... 48004.html


So, rather than build up operations at other metros such as HYD or BLR, Vistara’s approach is to connect as many cities as possible to its central hub, Delhi.

Is this a good or bad strategy?

Is it not ceding supremacy to other carriers at cities other than Delhi?



It will help them fill their widebodies in DEL when they come..
 
aarbee
Posts: 443
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:49 pm

binayak wrote:
aarbee wrote:
binayak wrote:

Vistara earlier hinted the first flight to be Tokyo with JAL partnership.

My thoughts on future routes :
If Vistara tries to launch EWR - BOM/ DEL with UA partnership with those 787-9s , I'm pretty sure that will mark the end of AI operating that route. Even the most loyal AI pax will shift happily to Vistara. After all let the so called national carrier get a taste of international competition and let them realize that the Gujarati crowd of NJ won't fly them forever.

One thing you are forgetting that, that NJ gujarati crowd likes to do customs immigration in AMD vs DEL/BOM. AI provides international connectors, which sadly Jet missed on that.


Yes you are right . However , a good percent of that crowd terminates at BOM too . So they might prefer better option than AI .

BOM is a different ball game. There are many factors coming into play.
1) Lot more 1 stop options
2) Price competition is cut-throat
3) Alliance
4) Willingness to travel to JFK.

Whereas AI to AMD from EWR, main attraction is processing and bag handling at last stop.
 
binayak
Posts: 995
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:35 pm

aarbee wrote:
BOM is a different ball game. There are many factors coming into play.
1) Lot more 1 stop options
2) Price competition is cut-throat
3) Alliance
4) Willingness to travel to JFK.

Whereas AI to AMD from EWR, main attraction is processing and bag handling at last stop.


Regarding the second and third point, my idea was Vistara partnering with UA for that route.
Fourth point is interesting because till date I knew that most of the BOM bound crowd is from NJ area so EWR has higher demand than JFK.
 
vadodara
Posts: 1146
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:19 am

aarbee wrote:
binayak wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

Vistara was supposed to get its first aircraft in Feb 2020. I guess this means it will get its first 787 a lot sooner. The first flight is either Mumbai or Delhi to London ( have they secured the slots)???


Vistara earlier hinted the first flight to be Tokyo with JAL partnership.

My thoughts on future routes :
If Vistara tries to launch EWR - BOM/ DEL with UA partnership with those 787-9s , I'm pretty sure that will mark the end of AI operating that route. Even the most loyal AI pax will shift happily to Vistara. After all let the so called national carrier get a taste of international competition and let them realize that the Gujarati crowd of NJ won't fly them forever.

One thing you are forgetting that, that NJ gujarati crowd likes to do customs immigration in AMD vs DEL/BOM. AI provides international connectors, which sadly Jet missed on that.


Yes it is called convenience and service!
 
ameya
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:46 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:15 am

Jet Airways collapsed 6 months ago. A look at how Indian aviation has changed since

Today marks the completion of six months since the fall of Jet Airways – once the largest airline in Indian skies. The last six months have seen quite a few debates about capacity, fares, market share, slots and a lot more. While each airline has its version of the story and strategy, the fact has been that the fall of growth in passenger numbers has coincided with the fall of Jet Airways. The air traffic growth in the country has been lackluster since the fall of the airline.

While every airline scrambled to launch flights with the slots freed up due to the collapse of Jet Airways, the airlines concentrated on metros – primarily Mumbai and Delhi, leaving out the AAI-operated airports. In this melee, there was a whole bunch of routes which Jet Airways operated at its peak that have been left out.

Jet Airways had been on a downward spiral for over six months before it shut down, starting with dismantling its mini-scissors hub of Guwahati for the North East and followed by reducing its ATR network, shutting down links and stations in the Gulf and concentrating the GCC operations via Mumbai and Delhi. But leading up to this fall, the airline had planned rapid expansion of its domestic network to take on the might of IndiGo and fend off the competition of Vistara.
 
maint123
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:40 am

Don't know whether this belongs here but I discovered a interesting thing that if you book a multi destination trip like Delhi, Point A, point B, Delhi. Its cheaper to book single tickets rather than choosing the multi destination option on the online sites.
Many flights , which don't appear in the multi option, appear while booking individual flights. You got to be flexible with the stop overs, but if u don't mind a few hours extra, it's worth exploring.
I booked Delhi, Tokyo, bali, Delhi and saved 20 % , by choosing the single booking option.
 
maint123
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:43 am

edealinfo wrote:
zionite wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

Turkey demanding anything is a joke.


:lol: If they make any more demands, government may as well reduce the existing rights also.


Well, in addition to Turkey, I believe Malaysia, and at least another country (can't remember the name -- Iran?) raised the issue as well.

China not Iran.
Iron friend is very vocal against India at the moment. Pressure tactics wrt 5G I believe.
Time for India to give the bharat Ratna to the Dalai Lama.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2810
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:51 pm

maint123 wrote:
Don't know whether this belongs here but I discovered a interesting thing that if you book a multi destination trip like Delhi, Point A, point B, Delhi. Its cheaper to book single tickets rather than choosing the multi destination option on the online sites.
Many flights , which don't appear in the multi option, appear while booking individual flights. You got to be flexible with the stop overs, but if u don't mind a few hours extra, it's worth exploring.
I booked Delhi, Tokyo, bali, Delhi and saved 20 % , by choosing the single booking option.


Nice tip on checking single purchases as opposed to multiple trip booking on online sites.
 
aarbee
Posts: 443
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:36 pm

binayak wrote:
aarbee wrote:
BOM is a different ball game. There are many factors coming into play.
1) Lot more 1 stop options
2) Price competition is cut-throat
3) Alliance
4) Willingness to travel to JFK.

Whereas AI to AMD from EWR, main attraction is processing and bag handling at last stop.


Regarding the second and third point, my idea was Vistara partnering with UA for that route.

Good point
binayak wrote:
Fourth point is interesting because till date I knew that most of the BOM bound crowd is from NJ area so EWR has higher demand than JFK.

Yes higher demand, but thats where point 2 comes into pic.

I have seen $599 fights from JFK-BOM
 
vadodara
Posts: 1146
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:06 am

VTORD wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
vadodara wrote:

Interesting choices. Codeshare with UA, BA and JAL.

>>>>My guess will be flights to LHR and transfer to UA to US.
This will be highly dependent on the timing of the slots they acquire. But why would they use UA over BA at LHR for codeshare?

>>>>Not sure why BA would want to codeshare.

BA has codeshares for onward traffic to various points in India. BA currently benefits much more than Vistara does because I believe there are no Vistara codeshares on either UA or BA flights.

AFAIK the BA codeshare is ex-DEL on domestic. But BA at LHR makes a lot of sense for UK. In addition to the big stations, BA also serves "Tier 2" destinations like BNA, CHS, etc., which provides an extra option bypassing stop at a JFK/ORD/ATL types. Throw in the BA JV with AA and you have a significant advantage from a network penetration POV.


Yes but what does BA get in return?
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2810
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:51 pm

Vistara leads the way with biggest % increase (64%) in flights for Winter 2019 (compared to prior winter) but they are starting from a smaller base. SpiceJer is far more impressive with a 46% increase over a larger base.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 658882.cms
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2810
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:52 pm

Former Jet Airways CEO Vinay Dube joins GoAir in advisory role
The former Jet Airways CEO, according to sources was wanted by GoAir for long to fill their CEO post. Dube had left Jet Airways on May 14 this year. Dube boarded the Wadia group-promoted carrier last week, according to source


Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/71662841.cms?
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2810
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:01 pm

Question:
>>>How many or what % out of the Abu Dhabi's bilateral total has been utilized? hasn't Etihad almost exhausted the bilateral?

Answer from "sibibom"

Can't find their exact numbers, but many flights have been downsized since their peak couple of years back. Today it is 159 weekly flights. Which should be around 30-35k seats out of the allocation of 50,000 per week. (around 17 out of the 22-23 daily most flights are A320 (136 seats) and A321(174 seats))[/quote]

Thanks. I will also post this on the Indian aviation forum as it it useful info.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2810
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:08 pm

The never ending story........

The committee of Jet Airways (9W, Mumbai Int'l) creditors has granted Synergy Aerospace an extension until November 15, 2019, to submit a formal bid for the acquisition of the defunct airline, The Financial Express has reported.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... et-airways
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2810
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:12 pm

Despite Jet Airways’ end, 39 million seats exist between India and the Gulf

https://www.anna.aero/2019/10/17/despit ... -the-gulf/
 
VTORD
Posts: 785
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:33 am

vadodara wrote:

Yes but what does BA get in return?

Opportunity to sell more seats to India and a strategic advantage on India - USA as an (in many cases) only option to places like AUS, BNA, BWI, PHX etc.,.

Consider this: flying XXX-BOM/DEL/BLR/MAA-LHR-YYY-ZZZ. That's a pain! For eg., BNA has a decent Indian IT-centric population. ATL is a good 3.5 hour drive on a good day so your flight option is BNA-ATL/EWR/JFK-XXX-YYY based on where and what you chose to fly.

IMHO, the conundrum I foresee with UK-UA codeshare (TATL) is that it will come down to:
How many pax is UA routing XXX-EWR-BOM/DEL on average?
How many pax is UA routing on XXX-FRA/MUC/ZRH-BOM/DEL/BLR on average?
And are they willing to route these to Vistara over their JV partners?
So does UK become part of the JV, which I would assume has to be for any sort of TATL codeshare.

One could argue that the same case could be made for BA with AA but I am assuming here that since AA doesn't really have a presence in India they are:
a) less impacted v UA/LH/LX and
b) they might be more agreeable to something like this as a piggyback to create potential to sell some seats to India.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2810
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:19 am

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/indig ... 533611.htm

IndiGo to suspend Kolkata-Hong Kong service from November 6
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 548
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:22 am

So If Qantas can fly 787-9 From JFK to SYD which is now the lomgest flight ever then Im wondering Vistara with the same Aircrafts which they are about to get could probably fly direct from Delhi to Houston or BLR to SFO etc..I mean could they ?
 
unnayan
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:57 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:31 am

FligtReporter wrote:
So If Qantas can fly 787-9 From JFK to SYD which is now the lomgest flight ever then Im wondering Vistara with the same Aircrafts which they are about to get could probably fly direct from Delhi to Houston or BLR to SFO etc..I mean could they ?



JFK to SYD is a experimental flight with only 50 people onboard and minimal luggage. 787-9 can't do this at full load today. Plus QF 787-9 are relatively premium heavy.

I doubt UK 787 can do BLR-SFO profitably. If there was a scope, UA would have long scheduled it with aircraft already in their fleet.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 548
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:12 pm

unnayan wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
So If Qantas can fly 787-9 From JFK to SYD which is now the lomgest flight ever then Im wondering Vistara with the same Aircrafts which they are about to get could probably fly direct from Delhi to Houston or BLR to SFO etc..I mean could they ?



JFK to SYD is a experimental flight with only 50 people onboard and minimal luggage. 787-9 can't do this at full load today. Plus QF 787-9 are relatively premium heavy.

I doubt UK 787 can do BLR-SFO profitably. If there was a scope, UA would have long scheduled it with aircraft already in their fleet.


Thanks for your response
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2810
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:50 pm

SpiceJet plans to operate wide-body planes next year

An industry source said that SpiceJet might bid for Air India's wide-body operations in case the government puts up domestic and international operations for sale separately.

"SpiceJet is looking at bidding for Air India wide-body operations to fulfil its ambitious plan of flying long haul international," said the source.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 45351.html
 
vadodara
Posts: 1146
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:43 pm

VTORD wrote:
vadodara wrote:

Yes but what does BA get in return?

Opportunity to sell more seats to India and a strategic advantage on India - USA as an (in many cases) only option to places like AUS, BNA, BWI, PHX etc.,.

Consider this: flying XXX-BOM/DEL/BLR/MAA-LHR-YYY-ZZZ. That's a pain! For eg., BNA has a decent Indian IT-centric population. ATL is a good 3.5 hour drive on a good day so your flight option is BNA-ATL/EWR/JFK-XXX-YYY based on where and what you chose to fly.

IMHO, the conundrum I foresee with UK-UA codeshare (TATL) is that it will come down to:
How many pax is UA routing XXX-EWR-BOM/DEL on average?
How many pax is UA routing on XXX-FRA/MUC/ZRH-BOM/DEL/BLR on average?
And are they willing to route these to Vistara over their JV partners?
So does UK become part of the JV, which I would assume has to be for any sort of TATL codeshare.

One could argue that the same case could be made for BA with AA but I am assuming here that since AA doesn't really have a presence in India they are:
a) less impacted v UA/LH/LX and
b) they might be more agreeable to something like this as a piggyback to create potential to sell some seats to India.


So BA already flies to cities/airports like BNA, AUS, PHX, SJC and so forth. BA probably connects more US airports than anyone.

Yes, one could add a few connecting passengers out of DEL/BOM to say an Indore or Vadodara. In reality, a 1-stop on EK or QR will be a much better choice.
 
vadodara
Posts: 1146
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:10 pm

So looks like Jewar airport is getting one step closer to construction.

With an airport with upto 6 runways coming up in vicinity of Delhi in E UP, this should have major ramifications to airlines plans for expansion.
 
hohd
Posts: 1057
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:25 pm

vadodara wrote:
VTORD wrote:
[
.

Yes, one could add a few connecting passengers out of DEL/BOM to say an Indore or Vadodara. In reality, a 1-stop on EK or QR will be a much better choice.


EK or QR cannot fly to Indore or Vadodara, although they hope to but GOI will not allow that for now. So for many secondary Indian cities, connecting through BOM or DEL (or even BLR, HYD or MAA) is the only option.

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